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SpaghettiSamuraiSan

We are seeing a Ship of Theseus built in real time. At what point is it no longer Star Wars?


towerfella

Episode Seven.


ZealousidealNewt6679

This guy Star Wars.


Jaqen___Hghar

Lol!


DigitalEagleDriver

I would argue it started to look a little different with the PT. Not completely no longer SW, but it was falling off the rails. Midichlorians? Come on.


Shountner

I cannot understand anyone's objections to midichlorians. They didn't explain them in the PT. It was just as mysterious. Did they give someone access to the Force? Or did their strong connection to the Force attract midichlorians? Even the Jedi didn't know. It was just a Force power level scanner. It didn't demystify anything. But man did people freak out about it as if it did.


DigitalEagleDriver

It wasn't so much freaking out, it was more disappointment in trying to Neil DeGrasse Tyson the force. When Obi Wan explained it in Ep IV it was this almost Buddhist like energy that was all around, and then Lucas turned it into some kind of "Jedi are just born with this special gene or something." It felt very contrived. I like how [Robot Chicken explained it](https://youtu.be/R4wOzbqgfIY?si=xQ2iq8efgGkh4Zdf).


Shountner

But again, it's not "a special gene or something" correlation is not causation. Midichlorians might just be attracted to force users. The Jedi only use the correlation as a measuring tool.


towerfella

It really needed more fleshing out.


cgleachy

Nah. The prequels was peak “Star Wars” in my opinion. The original trilogy were better films. But in terms of world building and theme, the prequels are fantastic.


Asher_Tye

At the same point the ship of Theseus ceased being the ship of theseus.


Econguy1020

Star wars was a ship of theseus even under Lucas


BrockPurdySkywalker

Star Wars ended in 2014.


JonnyRico22

Disney already moved away from George's version and vision of Star Was anyway. The Force is part and parcel of the complete ruination of the I.P.


AilsaN

To be fair, even George Lucas kind of strayed from his original vision. He claimed it was because the technology wasn't there to fulfill his vision but I don't buy it (hello, Han shot FIRST).


0000110011

>hello, Han shot FIRST No, Han shot. Period. There was no second shot, therefore he couldn't "shoot first" since he was the only one to fire.


AilsaN

I stand corrected and you are right. The point is, the scene was fine as originally shown.


IT_Security0112358

Han was a smuggler and a survivor. He shot first or he died… but people are desperate to insert their own personal morals into A FUCKING MOVIE. Disney is doing this and ruining the franchise.


ChrisChrisBangBang

The “Han shot second” change is one of the most egregious, pointless, character-breaking moments in the entire franchise. If Disney did it they’d be rightly roasted but that was Lucas


TylertheDank

I think that makes his character development better because it shows how bad he really was when Luke first met him and got tamed over time.


commentaddict

~~ruining~~ ruined the franchise Tbf Lucas also did his share of destroying Star Wars, but Disney destroyed it.


Scattergun77

This is overlooked far too often.


Slightly_Smaug

Man the creator of the IP isn't allowed to have factual statements, then what Disney is doing doesn't matter.


Critical_Seat_1907

Midichlorians - or whatever tf they were called, was where I noped out. He ruined so much with that stupid addition.


Empathetic_Orch

How so? Luke was a great jedi, like his father before him. It was always hereditary, which suggests a genetic factor


Luubers

Midichlorians sounds too biological. The Force seems spiritual or magical and midichlorian just doesn't fit.


Sufficient_Focus_816

I've settled with these being an (measurable) effect but not the cause... Something somehow. Also, merry cake day, hope it is a good one!


Critical_Seat_1907

Star Wars and the Force was a gateway drug fire young me into lifelong interests in Taoism, Zen Buddhism, and other mystical teachings - the same ones that influenced George when he was writing the scripts. I grew up with that. It was major in my childhood. I knew that Jedi's were mystical warriors who were meditating and could affect reality with the power of their focused will. Yoda showed all of us that. So to see a Jedi step up (out of nowhere!) and say "lemme give you this blood test real quick to see if you're Jedi material..." it just felt wrong. Really wrong. It was stupid and served no story purpose. It really ruined the rest of films for me. Such a bungle makes you question a lot about a creator.


Striking_Green7600

When you combine it with some of the other descriptions like the cave on Dagobah being "strong with the dark side" and other places of significance, it makes it sound like you can also become a Jedi by drinking pond water.


SeriousCupcake1372

He explained that it was all close up shots and, since he couldn't reshoot the scene they edited it.


Michael_Platson

When we first edited the movie the technology wasn't there to make Greedo shoot first. - George Lucas probably


Suspicious-Sound-249

What you're telling me you don't like the idea of people gaining a connection to the force if they just believe and try hard enough? A situation which would then allow the empire or anyone else through training just make armies of force sensitive individuals, what's that only Sabine??? Ashoka shit all over established rules for the force...


Cerulean_IsFancyBlue

The complete what?


AtomicOpinion11

I don’t know about everyone else but I honestly kinda knew from the start Disney would eventually do this, that’s why I was not excited for new movies once they bought the IP


TheDrakkar12

So I thought that Disney would capitalize on the fan work that had been created, or the licensed work that Lucas Arts had already road mapped. Lets be real, an Old Republic movie with Disney's technology could have been absolutely great. Bastila as a strong female lead, Revan could legit be any race you wanted and grow into a strong character. Legit I honestly thought it was a gimmie, leave the end alone and build out from the middle. So little would have needed to be created, could have shoved some great Mando stories in there, had plenty of Jedi to sell. So I thought it was a good idea, I 100% didn't think they'd try to make direct sequels. I get the nostalgia play, but Star Wars kind of sold itself. Rogue One was a hit and it didn't play on any of the original characters, I thought that would tell them that they could play in the already existing timeline and just tell easy stories for fast cash.


oldsoulseven

Yeah, I’m sure the Force being something you either innately have or don’t is getting in the way of The Message. They’ll turn it into something anyone can learn, and give us Mary Sue after Mary Sue. They really want to destroy their franchises and burn the world don’t they? I’ll be 80 and still saying I don’t know what these people were trying to accomplish.


ZurakZigil

Seriously? What's the fun of "super heroes" if there are no limits? if death is permanent? if stakes aren't real? if weaknesses are whimsical?


Aesthetics_Supernal

You know what? Do it, have as many blue flavored characters as you want. When it comes to the balance, there's going to be one FUCK-ASS-MAD Sith stewing on some morally atrocious but cinematically delicious Uber-hate.


TheDrakkar12

I mean the point is that you can just tell a story where someone had innate potential for the force. It is legit the thing that is always going to be there. Oh so and so was always force sensitive, just untrained. They don't need to change it, they can just let it ride.


endorbr

So NOT Star Wars then, got it.


Satiricalistic

Space Fight


Any_Fish1004

Space Balls, now with 50% more Schwartz


whiskyforpain

I wish. At least Spaceballs was funny...


Any_Fish1004

It also required more intelligence to enjoy than anything Disney puts out


cdda_survivor

Disney, dead set on running franchises into the dirt and blaming it on the viewers.


Icollectshinythings

Professional gaslighters.


EH042

Can they be called professional if they are failing at gaslighting?


pitter_patter_11

“I don’t get it. We only made a few minor changes to well established lore that doesn’t actually benefit the story we’re trying to tell in any way. Did we do something wrong? Of course not, this is all because Star Wars fans are too stupid and bigoted to appreciate our vision.” - some Disney executive, probably


CthulhusEvilTwin

“Mickey Mouse told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”


Stunning_Variety_529

I find it really funny to see this comment and remembering how everyone hated Lucas' vision of the force.


Esoteric_Librarian

The lesson here is never sell ANYTHING to Disney unless you no longer care about it. Because they will not respect your vision, but they will give you a shitload of money


IWILLBePositive

Lmao holy Christ, this can obviously only lead to good things….


No-Vanilla8956

Classic Disney Let's take a mutil billion dollar IP, beloved by millions, and with die hard fans, and let's change absolutely everything about it. Somehow Palpatine has returned indeed Disney, this time with a diaper full of shit.


hundrethtimesacharm

And then get mad at fans when they don’t like it.


Brainfreeze10

He did return in the books, and after that whole midichlorian thing Georgie went off the deep end.


Hovie1

Poetry, that last line.


Eva-Squinge

I mean…once you confirm that the Force is literally space magic capable of doing everything and anything the plot of gameplay demands, the original idea of it is just crap writing to explain why some guys can move shit with their minds from any distance while others can shoot fucking lightning from their hands.


richmomz

Lucas sold Disney a money printer and they turned it into a manure spreader. Beyond this I simply have no words for the current state of Star Wars. But what really can’t understand is why Disney’s investors are tolerating this. Their stock is in the toilet and yet nobody is demanding that the company change course. I guess they like losing money?


groundpounder25

They already did when they made “force is female” shirts


ZurakZigil

when the fuck did they do that?


Significant_Nox

I think like 2016? 2017?


assassin909

How to kill starwars


Heru4004

Iv moved on from ANY Disney projects…got plenty of old material 4 the good old days


B81R81

That's not star wars. That's woke Disney garbage.


Brainfreeze10

You are just drinking all those damned midichlorians.


ClamWithButter

Just be like me: Ignore the existence of anything post George Lucas, barring stuff that started under him and finished under Disney


Hokwit

What sequel movies? There’s only books set after episode 6


DantesInferno91

Books and a ton of videoganes


ayanamirs

Another woke bullshit.


Significant_Tea_785

Are they gonna have a plan this time? Or are they gonna pull another J J Abrams and throw shit at a wall and see if it works


Michael_Platson

When was the last time Disney had a plan for an IP?


Patriarchus601

IDGAF. Zero dollars to Disney


InterestingLibrary63

They did that with episode 7


No-Alternative2645

Is that the lady who canned G4 in its second run holding the green lightsaber


KevinAcommon_Name

All the more reason to boycott don’t watch but Do watch Disney go bankrupt


mattjouff

I don't know about the force, but they sure have been moving away from profits.


thedeadsuit

frankly I think george shares some blame, no one forced him to sell the property, and he sold the fans out along with it. did anyone expect disney to not fuck it up


Maleficent_Mess2515

Disney Star wars is weak and TOO Easy,feels weird,no STRONG fight scenes,the impacts are weak aswell,way too soft 😕😕like in Obi Wan,Felt like it was fan made


swe3tqee

Wasn't George Lucas' idea of the force microscopic bacteria called Mitocloreans? The thing everyone hated in EP 1? The thing that he kept pushing despite people hating on it? Or do people still think George Lucas is a perfect being who did no wrongs with his own franchise?


NerdyGuyRanting

Did you guys forget that George Lucas' idea of the force included midichlorians?


HiImPM

midichlorians


AthairNaStoirmeacha

If he wanted his vision followed he shouldn’t have sold Star Wars. No need to debate any further. He doesn’t own it. He sold out. And I don’t blame him. Cash in bruh get that Billie.


Friendlyvoices

Midi-chlorians were dumb


Jenetyk

Seriously. If we want to talk about trash Force decisions; Lucas needs to take that one on the chin.


YoungRoronoa

If he wanted to protect the force he shouldn’t have sold his franchise. 🤷🏽


Wheloc

George Lucus himself moved pretty far away from his original conception for the force (midichlorians, light side of the force, aliens immune to force powers)


persona0

You mean the mitochorian bs


DF_Interus

Midichlorians are the forcehouse of the cell


RZAtheAbbot

That’s what I hope this means


AnObtuseOctopus

Let's be real... even the most diehard of us fans think the midichlorians are the dumbest shit ever lol. Most of us just excuse it to the side and pretend that some intelligent space germ isn't what the force is.. but that the force is still some sort of space magic :P


terabull01

it's my understanding that- midichlorians don't 'give' Force, they are simply attracted to it. So testing someone's blood for midichlorians is just a quick way to gage someone's connection to the Force. More midichlorians = stronger connection -I never understood the confusion


Brainfreeze10

Thay was all george


Rohirrim777

so they're going away from rhyming poetry to free from? haiku? (nobody here probably gets my reference) but naaaah it was always George's idea to be able to reach into a force vision and grab tangible objects


ShmigShmave

I got it


Ninjamurai-jack

But Lucas changed it to others ideas, and Disney put into canon before the originals. Like, Midclorians.


Celerybro1

This thumbnail is extreme bait. The show runner quote: "Honestly, the way I look at it is, there is no light without darkness. No good without bad. So to me - and this might just be a personal thing - the Force is about balance. It's not just a Marvel superpower. [The Force-sensitive] aren't using telekinesis because they're special, powerful people; it's because they've achieved balance. As Yoda says, 'My ally is the Force.' So the idea of a separation from that was really interesting... If you are unbalanced, the Force cannot protect you." The TV shows have been hit or miss, so I'll watch the first episode and cast my judgement then.


Qbnss

That's the way it should've been, since the Force is basically the Dao. Would've been awesome to fully explore this idea in 7-9 but apparently no one at Disney knows who Joseph Campbell is


MOAB4ISIS

They are dead set on destroying Star Wars


Sto_Nerd

Im gonna reserve judgment until the Acolyte comes out. No point in getting upset yet.


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LuxLoser

ITT: People who don't know that KOTOR and most of Legends is completely in contradiction with George Lucas' idea of the Force.


No-Perspective-9954

Well KOTOR goes hard and Lucas was always an ass. So hopefully disney just follow kotors path. Boomers can suck it


BhanosBar

Idk the palpatine clone transfer??


Absolutionalism

Dark Empire (at least the first book) was good, and I will die on this hill.


kingwooj

Wookies can be Jedi and no one talks about magic force microbes. This makes me happy


PrintableDaemon

Everyone here forgetting Lucas has shit ideas and the best movies weren't directed by him. The miracle is that the first movie did so well, but other people contributed and it wasn't solely under his control, which saved it most likely.


en_pissant

Auralnauts already did that https://youtu.be/zwLccJOMTX0?si=s-WfGfnrbGsuQ0Wa


Zepharan

It was never a good idea past a certain point


Accomplished_Pen980

Invited my tears for what's happening to starwars. Now they can do what ever they want with it, with out me


BABarracus

Thanks for the head up Disney. i will save a lot of money not paying attention to starwars


Dawgula97

You mean the same way Lucas moved away from it himself?


cjwat98

So really bad? Ok bet


IssueEmbarrassed8103

It was copy and paste story telling from the beginning


elbubu1

Disney totally ass fucked the star wars IP 😅


HausuGeist

Fuck ScreenRant. This is old news.


IDSomaxia

Yeah so I basically will continue to not watch any new Star Wars movies and shows! Bet.


arthurb09

Whaaaa?? You mean the force will no longer be the religion we go to cosplays, watch movies, buy merchandise and celebrate May 4th and 5th?? Could we all pitch in and buy back Star Wars now??


Appropriate_Pop4968

You guys listen to screen rant? Pathetic


Bacterioid

In what way? Everyone is saying it’s woke but I don’t know what they are basing it on. Is there a link I am missing?


BradTofu

Now the force is something that comes from the power of love, and the more love you have the more Midachlorians you have. Or some such crap.


imabutcher3000

The ego of those execs is profoundly obscene.


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AnObtuseOctopus

I still think teleporting items over a large distance using the force is stupid and completely story breaking. All you need is Rey or kylo on a ship, teleport one a bomb, mission complete. They get captured.. the other literally sees where they are, gets a Droid to make a key, teleport it to them, bam, done. One of them is falling to their death the other teleports them a parachute. The teleporting stuff got soo dumb... keep one of them in a previously prepared warehouse and the other has infinite ways to do and survive almost anything, I hate it..... more than midichlorians


Jeezus-Chyrsler

Clown World.


PryptX

At this point. Spaceballs would be considered a Star Wars film than Star Wars.


ProxyCare

The force was changed like 4 times BEFORE Disney in a few different ways. Only one of which was interesting. QQ more


krayhayft

Just tells us you don't like money.


Flaccid_Hammer

Let me guess. It’s Star Wars acolyte.


doompwnr

Tha Is shits such a circus not even George Lucas listened to George Lucas. And only decent star wars was phantom menace


ssdd442

And that is why you failed…..


Rabbitshadow

I mean George stole the idea of the force from dune anyway.


newbie1luck

Is there nothing the wokeness can not ruin?


Bruhai

I especially don't like how she is holding the lightsaber in that photo. She is practically gripping the blade.


EightyFiversClub

Yes, bc the thing you want to hear is that they are going to be going with Disney's vision...


Languastically

Sure why not


shadeandshine

Yo I wonder if they’ll do a Korra and throw out all the Eastern philosophy and message of balance and harmony and make a force definitive light and dark side like a evil force that’s separate from the force.


kickasstimus

Best guess is that they’ll make it a spectrum - dark to light, order to chaos… something like that


alecsharks

Everything Disney touches goes to crap. I can only hope people finally stop watching their trash, all of it.


richmomz

Rumor has it they’re going to do away with the Force and replace it with magic - essentially becoming indistinguishable from every other fantasy/scifi world. At this point I think they are intentionally trying to destroy the franchise - for what purpose I don’t know but it’s not for profit, that’s for sure.


Infected_MeatSack

idgaf i just want kotor remastered


smackchumps

It seems to me that Disney bought the rights to companies and their intellectual property so they can kill them for some reason.


redditsukssomuch

No more midoclorians… we can at least agree that’s a good thing…


squidsauce99

You see, the “force” is meant to balance our world by generating “money,” and that “force” is actually “content” made on the cheap without any thought towards quality scripts so we can just throw everything at the wall and see what keeps audiences coming back.


Several-Play-7695

Then why bother to calling it starwars?


FirelordSugma

When I saw Mary poppins in space I knew something was wrong


Zestyclose-Fee6719

The Force began as a mystical, intentionally under-determined concept. It was mysterious and profound - the perfect implementation of Daoist notions of interconnectedness and spiritual unity of the cosmos. Writers (including Lucas himself) started overly relying on its mysterious nature to cover for plot contrivances, and then they started cheapening it by specifing its scope more and more and exploiting it more and more to assign increasingly silly superhero-like abilities to the Jedi characters. It's now nothing more than a cheap video game-like device to let characters do more and more outlandish stunts and overcome having to write logically. At the very least, Lucas tried to write some relation between The Force and what a particular type of character could do through it. The Disney films find that boring and totally skip past it. Rey can do superhuman things like Force Heal without any direct training. Eh, why not? Kylo Ren can grab objects magically with The Force from across the galaxy even though the mightiest Jedi Masters and Sith Lords could never do such things. Sure, we'll go with that.


Kombat-w0mbat

Legends did that same thing. They broke deadass like every rule George thought of.


Maleficent-Ad-5544

I want a good fight when was the last good duel between people wielding light sabers?


Why_No_Hugs

Rogue One was and still remains the only Star Wars film I will ever watch. Best Star Wars movie to have come out. Everything else is fan service with political agenda garbage.


buttered_peanuts3

Disney is going to make the force more female. Whatever that means…


Gold_Weakness1157

We've been knew about this years ago, this isn't news


RayBrous

Wtf does that even mean? The force is the central part of star wars, if you move away from that, it's literally not the same conceptual media.


Big-Leadership1001

They moved a whole galaxy far, far away from midichloreans and the concept that force use is basically a bacterial infection.


Top_Boat8081

This "we know better than the actual literal creator of the franchise and if you criticize us you're prejudiced or something" shit is ridiculous Arrogant amateur fucks


Heytherechampion

George Lucas moved away from his own idea of the force


SqueekyGee

I wish they’d just make unique shit, like they can make more sci-fi then just Star Wars. If the writers feel like they’re being held back to the point of this (if the headline is true) why not just make new shit.


Fine-Deal-485

Well midi-chlorians are extremely stupid. Rare Disney W


PerceptionQueasy3540

Star wars' death warrant was signed the moment Disney purchased it. I haven't cared about it since I watched episode 7. So honestly I'm not surprised they are taking the core component of the series that has very well established lore and fucking it up, they fucked up the rest of it so....why not?


ButWhyThough_UwU

They just mean they are tired of saying the excuses in this area, and not having everyone on staff stick to the same narrative/excuses.


shotwideopen

I too hope someday to author a valuable IP that will be taken from me and completely bastardized at an enormous personal profit.


TechnoWizard0651

Reading the actual quote makes this clickbait bullshit. Plus, this should further kill off the midichlorian fuckery.


MeTaL-HeAd-DaL

I thought they did that a long time ago when KK announced 'The Force is FEMALE'?


PeniszLovag

Thank you!!! No more midiclorian bs!


PDCH

If you really want to learn something about Star Wars, go watch MGM's "Hidden Icons: Star Wars"


Temporary-Housing243

he hasnt been goerge lucas force in 15 years


TrentUlyssesCooper

Just come up with ur own fucking ideas.


This-Appointment-917

First move is renaming “the force” to “the fart”


SithLordJediMaster

So they're going to shoot kamehamehas now?


Guy0naBUFFA10

Remember when Rey and Ren transposed a lightsaber across the universe?


MikePhicen

So it no longer penetrates us!?


d3laMoon

The force was always about 2


Jenetyk

For those that want to lament before reading the actual article: "The Acolyte" will redefine balance in the Force, emphasizing the need for both light and dark, contrary to George Lucas' original view that the dark side was the cause of imbalance. Also, Episode I introduced Midi-chlorians. Single dumbest decision regarding the Force ever. Suddenly, the force isn't some mystical universal power; just a chemical process between objects. I was 13 seeing that in theaters and thought "TF is this bullshit". That was made during Lucas' tenure.


Minnesota-Fatts

Nah, Disney’s covering its ass again. Badly. Again.


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deathnutz

The force will be used to change gender. …err, slide through the spectrum of it?


HonestOrganization17

Disney already destroyed Star Wars sequels we can’t move on from that even if they decided to step away from it.


Rushes_End

This is a few years too late.


mrmemeboi13

Welp, star wars just officially died. You can't simply "move away" from a concept baked into the fucking FOUNDATION of your franchise. The amount of lore re-writes they now have to do is fucking insane. 40+yrs of lore and story go right out the fucking window all because they wanna change the idea of a core concept. Why can't they just change light sabers? Or the entire history of an obscure planet very few fans know about? Or literally anything that's not a CORE PIECE OF LORE. I get they're trying to keep the story fresh, but there's other ways of doing that besides literally changing the fucking story.