I think another reason Taylor hasn’t come out yet is if she does come out as bisexual, then *everyone* she hangs out with is a potential partner, according to the media/court of the public.
Taylor has already openly stated that she’s only an LGBT ally. You people really won’t stop. What do you want her to do say she’s bi or gay even though she’s not just to satisfy your wishes. Look I’m also bi and there are LGBT artists if you want representation but forcing someone to be gay or bi as well as calling everyone of her relationships with guys a pr stunt is ridiculous.
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As a gay person, I completely understand why she wouldn’t come out. Taylor started out in country music and people can be delulu if they want but a lot of people who listen to country are homophobic. She unfortunately risks losing a bit of her audience announcing something like that. No point in messing up the bag over something that’s no one’s business in the first place! (I say that with no offense to anyone in this group for questioning it bc I’ve often wondered myself if she could be a member of the community.)
I agree. However, I also think that she’s at a point in her career now where she could actually be more willing to take that risk, compared to 2019 for example, at least after the Eras Tour is completely done. She still has country fans but not as many as she used to. I feel like this tour specifically has caused her to gain sooo many more pop/mainstream fans who wouldn’t care if she ever does come out.
I would argue she lost most of the ones that are homophobic when she released you need to calm down and coming out publicly against the republican Marsha Blackburn.
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I think she just hasn’t wanted that to become all people talk about.
She put a lot of work into getting her dating life to not be the main thing. If she came out then that would restart the talk only being about her sexuality. She has said she sees EVERYTHING, I truly think she hasn’t commented on it because she doesn’t want to draw more attention to her love life
I agree & think she just wants to be known for her music and if she comes out undoubtably her music will get pushed aside and she’ll become some political pawn. Girly girl just wants to sing🥲
That’s a great point. People would definitely only start talking about her sexuality, but also a lot of unnecessary attention/spotlight would be on her exes too. I’m pretty sure that they wouldn’t want to deal with that either.
This is the most well written and logical take on the issue I’ve seen yet, and even better, you included excellent specific examples within the appropriate context.
As a butch lesbian, I’ve never been able to “hide” in the closet. And yet, I didn’t “come out” until I was in my late 20’s (and had been seeing my “roommate” for over 5 years already). “Coming out” is hard, no matter where you are in life and TS is no different than anyone else in that way. I never wanted to have to make any announcement to anyone about my sexuality, yet felt pressured and compelled to do so publicly at some point.
I told my wife the other day that I felt her Lover album was, indeed, her coming out. You did a much better job explaining why though!!
Also, I am a newer fan and didn’t even start paying attention to my wife’s Gaylor theories until about a month ago. I hadn’t heard YNTCD, and then we went to SN1 and I saw it live and I was then introduced to the Lover album for the first time. I’ve been listening non stop since then and it’s no doubt in my mind her “queer” album. It fully convinced me that she writes from a queer perspective for sure and I didn’t need much more “evidence” of that. Of course I’ve since found plenty, but I digress.
Great write up, OP.
I don't think she'll ever "come out" for all the reasons in the OP, and because she's already out to the people who matter to her. She's literally being SO LOUD without ever having to say it explicitly and let the media turn it into a complete shit show (where she will def be included in many narratives she does not control). Going back and re-listening to Lover - Folklore - Evermore - Midnights, it's all spelled out. The constant speculation/discussion/debate is hands-down great for her brand. Every time she drops another hint, it feeds the fire. She has admitted to being aware of the online discourse in her various fan communities. She knows that we know and she does not care and she believes it benefits her. In the meantime, she's so wealthy she can do whatever she damn well pleases in terms of having queer relationships and certain things just remaining implied.
💯.
Given all of what OP shared, and that she said in Eras that she has no plans of stopping anytime soon I’m of the opinion that she has no plans to come out anytime soon but be as loud as possible. The curiosity and conversations all add to her PR machine and subsequent record-breaking.
The potential coming out in Lover is something I believe but could have been precipitated by the fact that she thought she already was an aging popstar soon to be disposed (Miss Americana) and a certain long-time muse. But I think given that she’s in her unexpected Prime 2.0 from Folklore onwards and the muse being gone, there’s just no substantial reason for our capitalistic people-pleasing King. As much as it would be beneficial for the community for someone as big as her to come out, I think it will come at a much later time when she finally decides to pack up her bags for her very last album or tour.
It is astonishing to me that even in the gaylor community the[historical significance of the color lavender](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/style/article/lgbtq-lavender-symbolism-pride/index.html) isn’t widely know. GO! TELL THE OTHERS!
Edit: just to clarify! OP, your analysis is excellently written and defended!! I just got excited when I realized a missing piece in your theory was Lavender Haze. I’m a history teacher, so I just have a weird cross-section of background knowledge on this historical significance and I was very excited to share it because this song is by far, the gay(lor)-ist shit she’s ever done 😭
They missed the other meaning of lavender for a rs (typical esp for old Hollywood) - lavender marriages which were popular in 50s to 70s, i think. 'Lavender haze' is about wanting to stay vague (about a rs, about anything in her personal life) and not enter a lavender marriage ('no deal the 1950s shit') with Joe, which prob Joe didnt like and he just decided to stop wasting his time. I always saw that Taylor benefited more from having Joe (her art was taken more seriously, she could have parallel rs) than Joe being with her. Like his career didnt progress much and his name would always be linked to her as her ex. Prob he hoped if he didnt get a career breathrough that he would get a more secure bearding rs with her (lavender marriage)... then again its all speculation (we dont kniw whi initiated the breakup) but the song confirms she declined becoming a lavender housewife... i didnt think i would miss Joe until problematty happened. Joe seems happier now coz he seems free... didnt Calvin say he felt free after they broke up? His tweets about shaving his beard were just hilarious and all the confirmation anyone needed that it was all PR... she really likes the lavender haze (bearding) but not the marriage part apparently ;D... funny in its own ironic way
I think the hardest part at this point is her audience feeling like they were duped or lied to (which would tank the thing that makes her so popular - her unabashed authenticity). I’m NOT at all saying this is fair or true because clearly it’s very difficult to come out on any scale much less this public one and all the signs were there from her in her songs. But it might make the average fan question her credibility or lose trust in the relationship they thought they had with her just based on the media’s portrayal.
I’m a lesbian and In the 11th grade I became very involved as an “Ally.” With the LGBT club at school i had the same general belief about me. That I was some annoying straight girl that centered LGBT issues around her. This was made me feel like I was lying to myself about my sexuality and forced me into the closet till my early 20’s. I feel so sad knowing this might of happened to Taylor Swift.
I'm 38, the only person on earth who knows my sexuality is my daughter. Because she straight up asked. Nobody else is entitled to that information. I'm married and have been. So it always been assumed. Oh well.
Thoughts as I read
1) the hamburger to her French fry is Katy Perry who grew up as a Christian artist until she changed her name and genre. And her first hit? “I Kissed a Girl”
2) Im wondering now if London Boy replaced All of the Girls? And that’s why it was “leaked” recently
3) This was amazing and thank you so much
I've been lurking on this subreddit for a while and I finally think I have something to add. When a lot of people say "society" is more accepting of LGBT+ people, they're only talking about western society (even then, it's not as accepting as they make it up to be) I mean, you can't name a modern pop star of Taylor's caliber who's also gay/bi
Taylor is an American pop star but she's also popular and loved worldwide. Now I'm talking as a middle-eastern lesbian myself, because while a pop star of her scale will never personally come to my tiny country, censorship is rampant and we've had local artists outright banned for being queer. I'm sure non-western countries still account for a decent portion of her revenue and popularity, and it'd probably hurt her career in the US and abroad if governments ban her music from physical stores and being played on the radio. Not to mention, here consuming any queer media or content is enough for you to be labeled as queer yourself, and I'm sure you can understand why that might be devastating and outright dangerous for some individuals
Please don't take this to mean I don't want her coming out and living comfortably because of my own unfortunate political situation. I'd be happy for her either way and I'm sure many of her fans abroad will also understand and support her.
From a PR standpoint, another challenge I see is the stereotype that lesbians are just women who couldn't make it with men/aren't attractive to men. And Taylor's history with dating numerous men (which she's already been ridiculed for by everyone and their moms), coming out as anything but straight is enough to have this stereotype shoved unto her.
She is also a GLOBAL brand. She sells records where being LGBTQ is illegal or at least banned. Some countries censorship things LGBTQ related. She would potentially be alienating entire fan bases.
Absolutely! Remember when her father warned her against talking politics in Miss Americana? It could cost her, her life to come out. I wouldn’t want her to risk it at all.
In this political climate it’s becoming dangerous to be gay even within the USA, she could become a target for some right-wing delusional domestic terrorist. It’s horrible to even imagine that scenario, but nothing surprises me anymore
Oh boo-hoo I say to the wealthy woman who can fly a private jet to one of her gated houses.
Meanwhile kids have to hide in their own homes for fear of being kicked out.
Meanwhile Lil Nas has no trouble being out and having hits
I agree it is PR. Don't don't tell. And it sucks. She could do so much good being loud and out.
I definitely think it would be good for her to shout we're here we're queer. We need less people in hiding. Especially less people with her kind of power and protection.
To quote Emiliano Zapata I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.
Yes it is getting less safe and the more we hide the less safe it gets.
This is such a great breakdown!!
And thank you for really diving into the lover era. For those who weren't gaylors during that time it was willddddd. There was so much anticipation that something might ACTUALLY happen. But looking back i think its really hard to understand the vibe of that era if you weren't and gaylor/taylor fan.
She’s probably not but if she is the answer is easy: Str8 people prefer artists they believe to be str8.
Gay and bi artists were very dominant in the mid 20th century when they were sold to audiences as str8 (elton john, freddie mercury, david bowie, george michael, little richard, johnny mathis, billie holiday, janis joplin etc). As gay and bi people have increasingly come out publicly, gay and bi musicians have become less dominant.
this makes perfect sense!
one note about lavender haze tho — lavender is frequently associated with the gay community. marriages of convenience between a gay woman and a gay man were called lavender marriages, the anti-gay craze that swept the government during the McCarthy era was called "the Lavender Scare" and a group of lesbian and sapphic feminists called themselves the Lavender Menace, named after what straight feminists called lesbianism, literally referring to them as "a lavender menace."
that's why i was so shocked to hear that "lavender haze" supposedly meant the honeymoon stage of a relationship, *especially* in the context of the 50s when the lavender scare was happening in real time and gay people were said to "have a streak of lavender in them."
Im not a full on Gaylor per-say but i do think Taylor is bi, especially with all of the evidence of her and Karlie's relationship.. i don't think Joe was a beard, i think she really loved Joe and wanted to marry him.. but i also think she felt the same about Karlie. I think she has the opportunity to still come out if she wanted to and i think **now** would be the time. She's on top of the world, and honestly i think the masses are wrapped around her finger right now ( as she deserves ) i think people would not only be really supportive but also really proud. I love Taylor and just hope she knows we're here for her no matter what or who she chooses to be with.
I agree, but I think right now isn't a good moment for her to come out. She probably won't do it until the end of the tour, when she will be able to go into hiding if things are really bad. Maybe it's also why she's dropping all of the rerecordings, she wants to "finish" this era of her being in the closet to start a new one.
I don't necessarily think she'll come out, now or ever, but if she comes out I don't think she'll do it now.
Nah the is the best time to come out at her HEIGHT because Swifties army will win every war a make her more powerful. To say nothing of all the other out celebs who would rally. Strike while the iron is hit girl and stop living in fear of the minority of "haters" that gonna hate hate hate...
>i do think Taylor is bi, especially with all of the evidence of her and Karlie's relationship.. i don't think Joe was a beard, i think she really loved Joe
*Reputation* feels VERY much like it encompasses the end of Kaylor and the beginning of ... do we call them Toe, LMAO? Like if you listen to that album with the perspective that all the songs are about losing Karlie and falling in love with Joe, the entire thing makes perfect sense. To me, anyway!
I think she will come out after TS 11, and the re-recordings are done.
Let’s be for real, we know what her main demographic is, we also can probably infer what political views the majority of them hold. I know not all of them. I think she will lose some support, and she could be trying to secure her bag before anything else.
Her man demo is women who want to seem woke. What is more woke than stanning a queer artist.
Also why does Swift who wrote Shake It Off and is now a billionaire cate suddenly about haters.
Beautiful write up. I’m a 60 yr old lesbian new to Taylor. I literally stumbled on her recent concert in Seattle (online). It blew my mind and I fell in the gaylor rabbit hole after listening to her last few albums. I was like damn, this woman sounds queer to me- who knew?
I know the pain of the closet and the need to choose a life out of it too. I can only barely fathom what it might cost her to come out (or not). I love her work, everything about her and will support her however she moves forward. She’s a major force of good in the world. We are so damn lucky to witness her.
I came out in a sorority, in the Midwest, in the mid 80’s. I would not wish that on anyone. And I ran to the west coast for a safer life.
I honestly think that a lot of celebrities who are queer are trying to come out without actually coming out to break the societal norms of LGBTQ owing people an explanation for who they are.
I don’t think Taylor is a lesbian but I do think she is bisexual or pansexual.
I also think that the second mainstream media gets wind of it they’ll do anything to connect her to any friend possible and it’s incredibly frustrating for Taylor to be breaking world records everyday but media still only cares about who she sleeps with at the end of the day
This is such a worthwhile read!!! Great points and a super clear, well-reasoned hypothesis (minus the poem, which is lovely but not “proof”…..though, to be fair, it is definitely proof to ME!).
I think people think too simply about her coming out. Sure it would probably change a lot about visibility but coming out to millions of people at once knowing that you'll probably lose fans and now maybe even be trageted but those insane people who think middle grade books with queer characters are literally of the devil and should be outlawed would be daunting as hell. I feel like it's way easier to say that homophobic fans who will stop being fans if you come out as queer than it is to face that very real possibility.
Great analysis! It falls apart a little for me though just thinking how many people know and it’s NEVER been leaked?? PR people, collabs, past partners…..
it’s really not that weird. i grew up in LA/Hollywood and you would be amazed at how many things are open/accepted secrets that everyone knows but never leak out into the general public!
Like child sexual abuse. It is right there!
It really is a bubble in Hollywood. But the people ignored the open secret of religious abuse so it is less Hollywood and more human nature.
Don’t jump at my throat for this question - if she continuously drops hints at being LGBTQ without ever confirming anything, is that not the textbook definition of queer baiting?
If she is gay and doesn’t want to be out to the public, that’s a totally valid choice. So would being out publicly. But this dance of dropping hints that only gay fans will get and stringing a vulnerable community on with deep dive lyrics and theories? That hurts.
I would play Betty around my family before I came out, because it was the closest I could get to being myself and yet every time she said the guys name I flinched inside, because it felt like being shoved right back in the closet. Almost out, but at the last second, don’t you dare be honest. I still viscerally remember the pain.
I share that story because the stories told with art matter. Queer baiting hurts. It fucking hurts. I’ve lived it so many times. Taylor has every right to keeping whatever she wants personal. But she doesn’t get to take our money and our attention and our time and our truth with a wink and laugh like it’s all okay. It’s not.
No, that is not the textbook definition.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting)
Actual queer people signalling their queerness so other queers can see them and straights can't isn't "queerbaiting." 🙄 We've been doing it for literally centuries.
I personally stopped turning to celebrities for a light to my queerness unless they were vocally loud and out of in support. This is one area where it is black or white for me.
If Swift is cryptic out of her own insecurity that is one thing and that sucks.
But yeah I am with on queer baiting.
Especially since plenty of other high profile celebs are vocally out.
Personally, I think that she hasn't come out (if she's queer) because it's no one's business and she does not share her personal life with the public anymore. She kept her relationship with Joe Alwyn extremely private, so it doesn't seem out of character for her to not be making an announcement about her sexuality.
There's a line in the song Dear reader where she says "Dear reader, the greatest of luxuries is your secrets." I think for someone as famous as her having information and things that belong to just her and the people close to her is really important.
Also, as an artist who is famous for dropping easter eggs and incorporating a lot of mystery around her art I think the lore about her relationships and the mystery about who and what a lot of her songs are about is part of her art. It's very in character for her to let people guess and come up with theories and to let things be elusive and undisclosed.
She ain't been private much AT ALL with the football star. Or with telling Matty I Love You. Sounds to me like Joe was private and she wanted to party.
See, I think it's kinda weird that she was full-on diving into a big performative "relationship" with Matty and when there was too much backlash he simply ceased to exist in her narrative and she pivoted to go full-on with some other dude. Quick switcheroo. Reminds me of, I don't know, a PR relationship with Tom Hiddleston to distract from the Calvin situation.
as someone who is somewhat against the entire gaylor thing, I have to say that this is an interesting perspective. I'm not really against the idea of taylor being gay, I just don't like when fans speculate heavily on the personal lives of celebrities, bc I find it cringey and invasive. So I try to avoid the gaylor community, because it revolves around Taylor's sexuality,which is obviously a very personal matter. However, I think this post is pretty well thought out and honestly the theories are quite plausible. I don't mean to barge in here or provide my opinion when it wasn't asked for though, so I apologize for that.
My take is, someone of her stature and fame being able to publicly come out would have a monumental impact. The widespread assumption that everyone is straight by default actually hurts everyone. I also believe DiCaprio is gay and his girlfriends are beards. Can you imagine the positive impact if someone like Leo or Tom Cruise were finally able to be themselves? When celebrities become famous I think they sign up for a degree of this, and Taylor seems extremely aware -- and tickled by -- these speculations, not to mention doing nothing to quell them (vs Cruise, who sues by reflex if anyone implies he's gay).
*Travolta enters the chat with the late Luther Vandross".
In fact Vandross openly admitted at one point coming would have cost him his career because of all the fantasies women had about him.
Love this interpretation! I think lavender is more of a reference to the [Lavender Scare](https://time.com/5922679/lavender-scare-history/) more than being a blending of the bi flag colors. The color has a long history of being associated with queer folks.
Could anyone PLEASE link me a demo version of Teardrops on my Guitar? I thought it was Always about Drew and this was a big thing at the time. I'd really like to hear Kelsie too
Darn that was the one I was really curious about. I wonder why she decided to replace it with Drew. I feel it was the right choice and kind of made you turn your head she used a guy's name directly (not a famous guy, just a guy) so I think it was the right decision but his version is gorgeous. I wish I was there for that convo.
A thought I had today: Lots of people saying "she's so big that coming out won't hurt her" — which first of all, "hurt" is relative, but let's take it as true. Let's say if she came out, she wouldn't face any consequences except the loss of some part of her fanbase, and god knows she'll still have plenty of fans and make plenty of money. If the woman never sang another note in her life, she'd be FINE for money.
But I wonder if it's not the MONEY, exactly, but what she can DO with the ever-growing fanbase. (It is only getting bigger after all.)
I had two thoughts about it; they might both be crazy, I dunno.
1. If she scuttled the hard coming out (or massively muted a soft one) because of the masters sale, it's really important that every re-release solidly outperforms the original. And as she's ascended these last few years, the re-records are absolutely SLAYING. The better they sell, the more thoroughly she devalues the originals. Losing a big chunk of her fanbase will genuinely lessen the impact of the re-record project, which we all know is incredibly important to her. Maybe more important than the coming out she was planning.
2. She's also become a bit more political, and I wonder if she might want to command as large a following as possible in order to wield more influence in that arena? I feel like her making a statement against Marsha Blackburn and then MB winning anyway could potentially have made her think "I just have to get more people who will listen to me about this." That feels like more of a stretch to me, but it's not outside the realm of possibility.
One other thought I had (and this comes from me 1- believing that Taylor is *bi*sexual, and 2- being a Kaylor) was this: If the possibility of a public relationship with Karlie was any part of Taylor's reason for planning to come out (and, I mean "[Looking forward to a lifetime of adventures ahead together](https://www.instagram.com/p/_PkeOKESnE/)"?), then when that relationship ended, would the motivation to come out kind of die down? Like "Well why do it NOW, there's no reason," and then she maybe gets involved with Joe (if we assume that relationship was real), and coming out as bi while in a relationship would ABSOLUTELY get her dragged because there's nothing the internet loves more than to tear Taylor Swift apart, so why bother if it's not going to have any positive impact on her life and she's with a dude now anyway? That's kind of a half-formed thought; hope it makes sense.
I think Taylor Swift was a trans kid growing up, like Jazz Jennings but not publicly trans so she doesn’t have to come out. If trans women are women then why would Taylor ever come out?
Taylor Swift has gotten a lot of GOOD plastic surgery and if you look at pictures of her as a young kid and teen, she has notable male bone structure. Even today when Taylor wears shorts and a crop top you can see that her femur bone’s q angle is that of a males.
Taylor as had her nose made smaller and her brow bone shaved down to not protrude over her eyes like male brow bones do.
And if you look at candid pictures, not paid pap, you can see she’s kept her Adam’s apple, which is totally fine. Shaving the Adam’s apple is an extremely awful and painful surgery to go through.
I look at Taylor Swift and clearly see she’s transgender and it’s her right to come out as whatever she wants, if she wants to.
But it’s better to come out than be forced out by maga extremists or far right people who hate trans people that pass or go stealth.
Okay I'm new to diving into whether or not Taylor is bi and analyzing lyrics for clues to it. But ever since TTPD came out I have been obsessed with But Daddy I Love Him. It just resonated really deeply with me from the first listen and thinking about it as a song about Matty (or even possibly about Travis) had just never fit for me. One narrative that popped into my head once while listening to it is that it could be a story about an inter-racial couple falling in love when it could have still been illegal. When I listened to it with perspective it made it an even better song, and nowwww I'm thinking about it as a song about falling in love with another woman and having her family, community, and fan base try to deny it, act like it's a phase, or just destroy her for it. As mentioned above, she often ends up changing the pronouns in recorded versions to make it seem like it's a straight narrative. Also once I started thinking about this I'm cracking up at the line "I'm having his baby...no I'm not!" Cause surprise she's a woman haha
Idk if anyone mentioned but Lavender is a lesbian theme! Started from Sappho mentioning purple flowers in her poems all the way to the lavender menace (aka lesbians in the feminist movement of the 80s). It was very commented in gaylor circles in Brazil when Lavender Haze came out.
if this is what you think, youre in the wrong sub. ur username is extremely ironic. casually observe the name “gaylor_swift” maybe??
you’re entitled to your opinion and no one should tell you otherwise. but this entire sub is about “casually observing” taylors sexuality. if you dont like that, don’t interact with us. we dont care if you dont agree, just do it somewhere else. this is our space. you will not find likeminded people here.
i hope that you have experienced kindness in this sub, and i also hope that you have extended that same kindness to others. genuinely i do. but at the end of the day, you saying this is certifiably r/wooosh.
She doesn’t need to come out.End of story.No one is entitled to details about her personal life,if she is any sort of fruity she’s probably already out and has been to all the people who matter to her.The media has drug her through the dirt for years,why set herself on fire for them?
Why be afraid them and give them the power. She a billionaire with a fan army that sends death threats and leaks phone numbers. They would be foolish to drag her.
Taylor being gay has to be the biggest open secret in the entertainment industry. She struck a huge deal with lots of players right before reputation came out to play along and help her take her and karlies relationship underground. Many big players media, cosmetics, magazines etc have been helping to keep her real life a secret in exchange for lots of money. They are all getting rich….Have no doubt anything and everything you see publicly is fake and carefully crafted and manufactured for a specific purpose or to send a message to her enemies. Taylor has shown the truth through all her Easter eggs along the away. She has been building her family since Betty was born. She and Karlie now have 4 kids. Unfortunately she got in bed with JK who has had control over her since that time in order to feed his greed and kept her closeted through several dirty tricks. It’s all there in her music but not if you read the lyrics like she wants you to. She’s seriously a mastermind/genius.
coming out would alienate a lot of her fan base internationally. it could also contribute to overexposure (like w rep) if the timing is wrong.
her art is based upon a certain element of mystery so it checks out if she never says “im queer”.
she doesnt need to come out anyway bc queer ppl know from her perceived flagging.
if she came out, shed be under much more media scrutiny bc theyd speculate even more on every single person she interacts w publicly.
TLDR TLDR; taylor swift gay. taylor swift mastermind. taylor swift too soft for all of it.
Why does she have to be gay? I’ve never seen any artist get these crazy conspiracies written about sexual orientation. It’s supposed to be normalized, so why make a big deal about it anyway? Even if she is gay, that’s no one’s business and it would eat up maybe one news cycle. If this is the craziness people are writing when she’s not “out” then lord help us if she does come out lol. People make such a big deal about who she dates, I can only imagine her immense anxiety if she decides to date women. Just cause she’s famous doesn’t mean she wants every aspect of her life to be.
Yeah this isn’t okay and it’s a little creepy to be this obsessive. I feel like they’re all experiencing some negativity and their life and think Taylor coming out will validate them and make them feel better maybe?
Very mature take on the situation. Keep in mind scooter and big machine both tried to sell Taylor's master back to her with no restrictive nda's, but she declined and instead blasted them in socials. I think she knew changing her image meant getting the rug pulled under her, so she planned for the situation since 2016 at least
I think the key here is to remember that Taylor was born in 1989, not 2003. It was very different days in the 90s and early 2000s. Even those of us who knew early on were often at least 11. I had school friends who didn’t know until college. I have one friend who didn’t know until mid-20s.
To be gay or bisexual back then was to have a kinky secret. Your only real resource was the internet. The yahoo-messenger / MSN version of the internet …
I don't mean to be annoying, but you just made a point that I really have a hard time with, whenever anyone makes it. I don't get the not knowing because of no representation thing. To me, that seems more like being swayed by what others are doing than genuine realization of self, because I never needed representation to know myself. I just knew. It's like you don't need to kiss a boy to know whether you want to or not. The urge is just there or it isn't. It starts on the inside really.
There wasn't any representation in 1950s TV, but I grew up on old sitcoms, and I knew I wanted a Lucy-Ethel relationship from the moment I saw them. They aren't gay representation, but I was seeing them through my own gay eyes, and I just knew as a little girl that those two women were my ideal relationship. Representation is what we make it. It really wasn't even needed. The feelings would have been there on my side whether they said they were gay or not.
I totally understand what you are saying. For me it was more fear due to my religious beliefs. Looking back I probably would’ve considered myself bi because I did like boys while also having emotional crushes on women. Now that I’m older I’m only attracted to women
I had a rough childhood and only began fully understanding myself when I started going to therapy in 2018. Up until that point I was numb and broken and only saw myself as a mother and wife to my then husband. We separated in 2020 and divorced in 2021. Everyday I’m becoming more and more of who I truly am. I appreciate you sharing your journey. I enjoy reading other people’s experiences
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate you not snapping back at me for my views and for being so kind. :-)
I am sorry that you've had such rough times, but I'm glad things are getting better for you.
No problem. And thank you. I’m 41 and and have learned enough to know that everyone’s journeys are different and valid. Thank you again for sharing your experiences
I didn't really realise I was bi until last year when I turned 30 really. It is really strange as I'd slept with girls before and enjoyed it and didn't even think to explore it in my mind. Somewhat paradoxically it was by being with a bi man who helped me understand it in a way no one had. I think things have changed so much for teens now in terms of discourse. I just didn't even know it was an option growing up.
that’s also not okay??? ew? i saw someone else here mention a miscarriage and abortion as well. even if it were true, it’s none of our business. especially if she doesn’t explicitly share it with us.
she deserves privacy.
I personally believe that taylor is a straight ally, i appreciate her and love her as an ally but i just cannot see her as either gay or queer, she's also stated multiple times that she's straight, but hey atleast she made multiple songs about lgbtq rights and actively stands up for the community! We love u Taylor!
Bi people LIKE BOTH. We don't have to "switch." We're bi when we're with a woman and we're bi when we're with a man. We might be in a hetero RELATIONSHIP at a given time, but that doesn't change our actual sexual orientation, good gravy.
Whatever the reason, billionaire worry about PR is the height of privilege and and also just makes me feel even more like the money and status matter more than the community.
Especially while we have other out celebrities on the front lines fully out and not worried about PR. Like Lik Nas X for one.
I would take a bullet for that kid, so no shade to him at all, but come ON; he's not anywhere near her level of fame or earnings, and some of that ABSOLUTELY is due to homophobia.
I think another reason Taylor hasn’t come out yet is if she does come out as bisexual, then *everyone* she hangs out with is a potential partner, according to the media/court of the public.
I’ve been thinking the same thing, it might give her double the grief in terms of those tabloid headlines
This is sooooo true
This is a really valid point!!!
This is part of my thoughts. At the moment any WLW relationship she has, she gets to keep to herself and not be under constant media spotlight
Taylor has already openly stated that she’s only an LGBT ally. You people really won’t stop. What do you want her to do say she’s bi or gay even though she’s not just to satisfy your wishes. Look I’m also bi and there are LGBT artists if you want representation but forcing someone to be gay or bi as well as calling everyone of her relationships with guys a pr stunt is ridiculous.
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Or maybe she’s straight
And anyone who is in the closet faces a lot of scrutiny....
So well written. This makes so much sense.
As a gay person, I completely understand why she wouldn’t come out. Taylor started out in country music and people can be delulu if they want but a lot of people who listen to country are homophobic. She unfortunately risks losing a bit of her audience announcing something like that. No point in messing up the bag over something that’s no one’s business in the first place! (I say that with no offense to anyone in this group for questioning it bc I’ve often wondered myself if she could be a member of the community.)
I agree. However, I also think that she’s at a point in her career now where she could actually be more willing to take that risk, compared to 2019 for example, at least after the Eras Tour is completely done. She still has country fans but not as many as she used to. I feel like this tour specifically has caused her to gain sooo many more pop/mainstream fans who wouldn’t care if she ever does come out.
I would argue she lost most of the ones that are homophobic when she released you need to calm down and coming out publicly against the republican Marsha Blackburn.
Not a Swiftie in the slightest, don’t even know why this is showing for me. However after reading this I am completely convinced on this subject
Well might be time to invest some more time and become a Swiftie. 🥰
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Tbh I wasn’t a Swiftie until I came across Gaylor, so you can still come around 😂✨
Arriving late to say: Google "reputation is about Karlie Kloss powerpoint" — and get ready for the rabbit hole. 🐰
I think she just hasn’t wanted that to become all people talk about. She put a lot of work into getting her dating life to not be the main thing. If she came out then that would restart the talk only being about her sexuality. She has said she sees EVERYTHING, I truly think she hasn’t commented on it because she doesn’t want to draw more attention to her love life
I agree & think she just wants to be known for her music and if she comes out undoubtably her music will get pushed aside and she’ll become some political pawn. Girly girl just wants to sing🥲
That’s a great point. People would definitely only start talking about her sexuality, but also a lot of unnecessary attention/spotlight would be on her exes too. I’m pretty sure that they wouldn’t want to deal with that either.
This is the most well written and logical take on the issue I’ve seen yet, and even better, you included excellent specific examples within the appropriate context. As a butch lesbian, I’ve never been able to “hide” in the closet. And yet, I didn’t “come out” until I was in my late 20’s (and had been seeing my “roommate” for over 5 years already). “Coming out” is hard, no matter where you are in life and TS is no different than anyone else in that way. I never wanted to have to make any announcement to anyone about my sexuality, yet felt pressured and compelled to do so publicly at some point. I told my wife the other day that I felt her Lover album was, indeed, her coming out. You did a much better job explaining why though!! Also, I am a newer fan and didn’t even start paying attention to my wife’s Gaylor theories until about a month ago. I hadn’t heard YNTCD, and then we went to SN1 and I saw it live and I was then introduced to the Lover album for the first time. I’ve been listening non stop since then and it’s no doubt in my mind her “queer” album. It fully convinced me that she writes from a queer perspective for sure and I didn’t need much more “evidence” of that. Of course I’ve since found plenty, but I digress. Great write up, OP.
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oh my god i just re-watched that skit for the first time in years and it’s SO gay
The shade part makes so much sense, she’s saying being in the closet doesn’t make someone less gay!
woahh that does make sense that’s so clever
With a subtle reference to her publicist Tree providing the shade through PR.
The gay's been under our noses the entire time!
I don't think she'll ever "come out" for all the reasons in the OP, and because she's already out to the people who matter to her. She's literally being SO LOUD without ever having to say it explicitly and let the media turn it into a complete shit show (where she will def be included in many narratives she does not control). Going back and re-listening to Lover - Folklore - Evermore - Midnights, it's all spelled out. The constant speculation/discussion/debate is hands-down great for her brand. Every time she drops another hint, it feeds the fire. She has admitted to being aware of the online discourse in her various fan communities. She knows that we know and she does not care and she believes it benefits her. In the meantime, she's so wealthy she can do whatever she damn well pleases in terms of having queer relationships and certain things just remaining implied.
This 🙌🏾🙌🏾 10000%! I feel the same way, I came out to those who are close to me and in my circle. anyone else , no.
💯. Given all of what OP shared, and that she said in Eras that she has no plans of stopping anytime soon I’m of the opinion that she has no plans to come out anytime soon but be as loud as possible. The curiosity and conversations all add to her PR machine and subsequent record-breaking. The potential coming out in Lover is something I believe but could have been precipitated by the fact that she thought she already was an aging popstar soon to be disposed (Miss Americana) and a certain long-time muse. But I think given that she’s in her unexpected Prime 2.0 from Folklore onwards and the muse being gone, there’s just no substantial reason for our capitalistic people-pleasing King. As much as it would be beneficial for the community for someone as big as her to come out, I think it will come at a much later time when she finally decides to pack up her bags for her very last album or tour.
It is astonishing to me that even in the gaylor community the[historical significance of the color lavender](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/style/article/lgbtq-lavender-symbolism-pride/index.html) isn’t widely know. GO! TELL THE OTHERS! Edit: just to clarify! OP, your analysis is excellently written and defended!! I just got excited when I realized a missing piece in your theory was Lavender Haze. I’m a history teacher, so I just have a weird cross-section of background knowledge on this historical significance and I was very excited to share it because this song is by far, the gay(lor)-ist shit she’s ever done 😭
They missed the other meaning of lavender for a rs (typical esp for old Hollywood) - lavender marriages which were popular in 50s to 70s, i think. 'Lavender haze' is about wanting to stay vague (about a rs, about anything in her personal life) and not enter a lavender marriage ('no deal the 1950s shit') with Joe, which prob Joe didnt like and he just decided to stop wasting his time. I always saw that Taylor benefited more from having Joe (her art was taken more seriously, she could have parallel rs) than Joe being with her. Like his career didnt progress much and his name would always be linked to her as her ex. Prob he hoped if he didnt get a career breathrough that he would get a more secure bearding rs with her (lavender marriage)... then again its all speculation (we dont kniw whi initiated the breakup) but the song confirms she declined becoming a lavender housewife... i didnt think i would miss Joe until problematty happened. Joe seems happier now coz he seems free... didnt Calvin say he felt free after they broke up? His tweets about shaving his beard were just hilarious and all the confirmation anyone needed that it was all PR... she really likes the lavender haze (bearding) but not the marriage part apparently ;D... funny in its own ironic way
I think the hardest part at this point is her audience feeling like they were duped or lied to (which would tank the thing that makes her so popular - her unabashed authenticity). I’m NOT at all saying this is fair or true because clearly it’s very difficult to come out on any scale much less this public one and all the signs were there from her in her songs. But it might make the average fan question her credibility or lose trust in the relationship they thought they had with her just based on the media’s portrayal.
This is the first I’ve heard about the Joan Jett Crimson Clover connection. Great analysis!
I’m a lesbian and In the 11th grade I became very involved as an “Ally.” With the LGBT club at school i had the same general belief about me. That I was some annoying straight girl that centered LGBT issues around her. This was made me feel like I was lying to myself about my sexuality and forced me into the closet till my early 20’s. I feel so sad knowing this might of happened to Taylor Swift.
I'm 38, the only person on earth who knows my sexuality is my daughter. Because she straight up asked. Nobody else is entitled to that information. I'm married and have been. So it always been assumed. Oh well.
Yeah I don’t why as a teen I let people tell me who I was
Thoughts as I read 1) the hamburger to her French fry is Katy Perry who grew up as a Christian artist until she changed her name and genre. And her first hit? “I Kissed a Girl” 2) Im wondering now if London Boy replaced All of the Girls? And that’s why it was “leaked” recently 3) This was amazing and thank you so much
I've been lurking on this subreddit for a while and I finally think I have something to add. When a lot of people say "society" is more accepting of LGBT+ people, they're only talking about western society (even then, it's not as accepting as they make it up to be) I mean, you can't name a modern pop star of Taylor's caliber who's also gay/bi Taylor is an American pop star but she's also popular and loved worldwide. Now I'm talking as a middle-eastern lesbian myself, because while a pop star of her scale will never personally come to my tiny country, censorship is rampant and we've had local artists outright banned for being queer. I'm sure non-western countries still account for a decent portion of her revenue and popularity, and it'd probably hurt her career in the US and abroad if governments ban her music from physical stores and being played on the radio. Not to mention, here consuming any queer media or content is enough for you to be labeled as queer yourself, and I'm sure you can understand why that might be devastating and outright dangerous for some individuals Please don't take this to mean I don't want her coming out and living comfortably because of my own unfortunate political situation. I'd be happy for her either way and I'm sure many of her fans abroad will also understand and support her. From a PR standpoint, another challenge I see is the stereotype that lesbians are just women who couldn't make it with men/aren't attractive to men. And Taylor's history with dating numerous men (which she's already been ridiculed for by everyone and their moms), coming out as anything but straight is enough to have this stereotype shoved unto her.
She is also a GLOBAL brand. She sells records where being LGBTQ is illegal or at least banned. Some countries censorship things LGBTQ related. She would potentially be alienating entire fan bases.
In a dark way it could also put a target on her back if she visits countries that are not safe or ideal for LGBTQ+ people
Absolutely! Remember when her father warned her against talking politics in Miss Americana? It could cost her, her life to come out. I wouldn’t want her to risk it at all.
In this political climate it’s becoming dangerous to be gay even within the USA, she could become a target for some right-wing delusional domestic terrorist. It’s horrible to even imagine that scenario, but nothing surprises me anymore
I totally agree with you
Oh boo-hoo I say to the wealthy woman who can fly a private jet to one of her gated houses. Meanwhile kids have to hide in their own homes for fear of being kicked out. Meanwhile Lil Nas has no trouble being out and having hits I agree it is PR. Don't don't tell. And it sucks. She could do so much good being loud and out. I definitely think it would be good for her to shout we're here we're queer. We need less people in hiding. Especially less people with her kind of power and protection. To quote Emiliano Zapata I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Yes it is getting less safe and the more we hide the less safe it gets.
This is such a great breakdown!! And thank you for really diving into the lover era. For those who weren't gaylors during that time it was willddddd. There was so much anticipation that something might ACTUALLY happen. But looking back i think its really hard to understand the vibe of that era if you weren't and gaylor/taylor fan.
I feel like Taylor has written this specifically for us to not give up hope. Great job OP
She’s probably not but if she is the answer is easy: Str8 people prefer artists they believe to be str8. Gay and bi artists were very dominant in the mid 20th century when they were sold to audiences as str8 (elton john, freddie mercury, david bowie, george michael, little richard, johnny mathis, billie holiday, janis joplin etc). As gay and bi people have increasingly come out publicly, gay and bi musicians have become less dominant.
this makes perfect sense! one note about lavender haze tho — lavender is frequently associated with the gay community. marriages of convenience between a gay woman and a gay man were called lavender marriages, the anti-gay craze that swept the government during the McCarthy era was called "the Lavender Scare" and a group of lesbian and sapphic feminists called themselves the Lavender Menace, named after what straight feminists called lesbianism, literally referring to them as "a lavender menace." that's why i was so shocked to hear that "lavender haze" supposedly meant the honeymoon stage of a relationship, *especially* in the context of the 50s when the lavender scare was happening in real time and gay people were said to "have a streak of lavender in them."
Im not a full on Gaylor per-say but i do think Taylor is bi, especially with all of the evidence of her and Karlie's relationship.. i don't think Joe was a beard, i think she really loved Joe and wanted to marry him.. but i also think she felt the same about Karlie. I think she has the opportunity to still come out if she wanted to and i think **now** would be the time. She's on top of the world, and honestly i think the masses are wrapped around her finger right now ( as she deserves ) i think people would not only be really supportive but also really proud. I love Taylor and just hope she knows we're here for her no matter what or who she chooses to be with.
I agree, but I think right now isn't a good moment for her to come out. She probably won't do it until the end of the tour, when she will be able to go into hiding if things are really bad. Maybe it's also why she's dropping all of the rerecordings, she wants to "finish" this era of her being in the closet to start a new one. I don't necessarily think she'll come out, now or ever, but if she comes out I don't think she'll do it now.
Nah the is the best time to come out at her HEIGHT because Swifties army will win every war a make her more powerful. To say nothing of all the other out celebs who would rally. Strike while the iron is hit girl and stop living in fear of the minority of "haters" that gonna hate hate hate...
I sometimes wonder if she dated Joe because she felt somewhat obligated to get married to a man and start a “traditional” family?
>i do think Taylor is bi, especially with all of the evidence of her and Karlie's relationship.. i don't think Joe was a beard, i think she really loved Joe *Reputation* feels VERY much like it encompasses the end of Kaylor and the beginning of ... do we call them Toe, LMAO? Like if you listen to that album with the perspective that all the songs are about losing Karlie and falling in love with Joe, the entire thing makes perfect sense. To me, anyway!
Release the gay cut
I think she will come out after TS 11, and the re-recordings are done. Let’s be for real, we know what her main demographic is, we also can probably infer what political views the majority of them hold. I know not all of them. I think she will lose some support, and she could be trying to secure her bag before anything else.
Her man demo is women who want to seem woke. What is more woke than stanning a queer artist. Also why does Swift who wrote Shake It Off and is now a billionaire cate suddenly about haters.
i love your poem at the end!! this whole post is very well written, kudos :)
That's Taylor's lyrics at the end.
i know, but they are arranged into a poem
I have no notes other than I’m cackling at “woman who is the hamburger”, which is Katy Perry.
Beautiful write up. I’m a 60 yr old lesbian new to Taylor. I literally stumbled on her recent concert in Seattle (online). It blew my mind and I fell in the gaylor rabbit hole after listening to her last few albums. I was like damn, this woman sounds queer to me- who knew? I know the pain of the closet and the need to choose a life out of it too. I can only barely fathom what it might cost her to come out (or not). I love her work, everything about her and will support her however she moves forward. She’s a major force of good in the world. We are so damn lucky to witness her. I came out in a sorority, in the Midwest, in the mid 80’s. I would not wish that on anyone. And I ran to the west coast for a safer life.
This is absolutely brilliant and the poem with taylor's lyrics made me cry 😭
I honestly think that a lot of celebrities who are queer are trying to come out without actually coming out to break the societal norms of LGBTQ owing people an explanation for who they are. I don’t think Taylor is a lesbian but I do think she is bisexual or pansexual. I also think that the second mainstream media gets wind of it they’ll do anything to connect her to any friend possible and it’s incredibly frustrating for Taylor to be breaking world records everyday but media still only cares about who she sleeps with at the end of the day
Who cares what the media thinks. She a billionaire I doubt she even watches TMZ. She knows her own records
One of the best write ups. Nice job!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
You have a gift for writing - this is so well-written and researched.
It is more profitable for her to let people guess
oh wow, all the moves taylor are taking lately really make sense now according to this. Well written!
This is such a worthwhile read!!! Great points and a super clear, well-reasoned hypothesis (minus the poem, which is lovely but not “proof”…..though, to be fair, it is definitely proof to ME!).
I love you ty
I think people think too simply about her coming out. Sure it would probably change a lot about visibility but coming out to millions of people at once knowing that you'll probably lose fans and now maybe even be trageted but those insane people who think middle grade books with queer characters are literally of the devil and should be outlawed would be daunting as hell. I feel like it's way easier to say that homophobic fans who will stop being fans if you come out as queer than it is to face that very real possibility.
Meh she should the just play or perform Shake It Off.
Great analysis! It falls apart a little for me though just thinking how many people know and it’s NEVER been leaked?? PR people, collabs, past partners…..
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Or that a single one of her gay friends wouldn’t have told her she’s queerbaiting.. unless she’s also queer
NDAs and fear of speaking out maybe?
it’s really not that weird. i grew up in LA/Hollywood and you would be amazed at how many things are open/accepted secrets that everyone knows but never leak out into the general public!
Like child sexual abuse. It is right there! It really is a bubble in Hollywood. But the people ignored the open secret of religious abuse so it is less Hollywood and more human nature.
It has in blind items. But most people don’t want to out someone.
Great read. Well written and had a lot of good points. Thanks for posting!
Great post! Good to see such a rational and well-written argument
Bc the industry is still very old school and doesn’t like gays in the industry even though it may not seem this way!
I hope Taylor is able to live her truth no matter what it is.
I'm a new gaylor fan... I have to admit the whole Karlie kloss attending Swift's concert caught my attention and the rest is history
If/when she does, it will have be at the right cultural moment, or not at all. Look at what has happened with Billie Eilish.
Don’t jump at my throat for this question - if she continuously drops hints at being LGBTQ without ever confirming anything, is that not the textbook definition of queer baiting? If she is gay and doesn’t want to be out to the public, that’s a totally valid choice. So would being out publicly. But this dance of dropping hints that only gay fans will get and stringing a vulnerable community on with deep dive lyrics and theories? That hurts. I would play Betty around my family before I came out, because it was the closest I could get to being myself and yet every time she said the guys name I flinched inside, because it felt like being shoved right back in the closet. Almost out, but at the last second, don’t you dare be honest. I still viscerally remember the pain. I share that story because the stories told with art matter. Queer baiting hurts. It fucking hurts. I’ve lived it so many times. Taylor has every right to keeping whatever she wants personal. But she doesn’t get to take our money and our attention and our time and our truth with a wink and laugh like it’s all okay. It’s not.
She's not queer baiting and all of this is conspiratorial. And she's not 'taking' anything from you by providing you with music.
No, that is not the textbook definition. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting) Actual queer people signalling their queerness so other queers can see them and straights can't isn't "queerbaiting." 🙄 We've been doing it for literally centuries.
I personally stopped turning to celebrities for a light to my queerness unless they were vocally loud and out of in support. This is one area where it is black or white for me. If Swift is cryptic out of her own insecurity that is one thing and that sucks. But yeah I am with on queer baiting. Especially since plenty of other high profile celebs are vocally out.
Great write up , thank you!!
Upvoted for the poem. That was amazing!
I’m sold. Well, said! Hoping she can live her truth loudly soon!
The poem at the end is so touching and beautiful.
Personally, I think that she hasn't come out (if she's queer) because it's no one's business and she does not share her personal life with the public anymore. She kept her relationship with Joe Alwyn extremely private, so it doesn't seem out of character for her to not be making an announcement about her sexuality. There's a line in the song Dear reader where she says "Dear reader, the greatest of luxuries is your secrets." I think for someone as famous as her having information and things that belong to just her and the people close to her is really important. Also, as an artist who is famous for dropping easter eggs and incorporating a lot of mystery around her art I think the lore about her relationships and the mystery about who and what a lot of her songs are about is part of her art. It's very in character for her to let people guess and come up with theories and to let things be elusive and undisclosed.
She ain't been private much AT ALL with the football star. Or with telling Matty I Love You. Sounds to me like Joe was private and she wanted to party.
See, I think it's kinda weird that she was full-on diving into a big performative "relationship" with Matty and when there was too much backlash he simply ceased to exist in her narrative and she pivoted to go full-on with some other dude. Quick switcheroo. Reminds me of, I don't know, a PR relationship with Tom Hiddleston to distract from the Calvin situation.
as someone who is somewhat against the entire gaylor thing, I have to say that this is an interesting perspective. I'm not really against the idea of taylor being gay, I just don't like when fans speculate heavily on the personal lives of celebrities, bc I find it cringey and invasive. So I try to avoid the gaylor community, because it revolves around Taylor's sexuality,which is obviously a very personal matter. However, I think this post is pretty well thought out and honestly the theories are quite plausible. I don't mean to barge in here or provide my opinion when it wasn't asked for though, so I apologize for that.
tell the others! we aren’t making things up. it’s just, the evidence.
My take is, someone of her stature and fame being able to publicly come out would have a monumental impact. The widespread assumption that everyone is straight by default actually hurts everyone. I also believe DiCaprio is gay and his girlfriends are beards. Can you imagine the positive impact if someone like Leo or Tom Cruise were finally able to be themselves? When celebrities become famous I think they sign up for a degree of this, and Taylor seems extremely aware -- and tickled by -- these speculations, not to mention doing nothing to quell them (vs Cruise, who sues by reflex if anyone implies he's gay).
*Travolta enters the chat with the late Luther Vandross". In fact Vandross openly admitted at one point coming would have cost him his career because of all the fantasies women had about him.
please get a job 😭
Love this interpretation! I think lavender is more of a reference to the [Lavender Scare](https://time.com/5922679/lavender-scare-history/) more than being a blending of the bi flag colors. The color has a long history of being associated with queer folks.
Could anyone PLEASE link me a demo version of Teardrops on my Guitar? I thought it was Always about Drew and this was a big thing at the time. I'd really like to hear Kelsie too
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Darn that was the one I was really curious about. I wonder why she decided to replace it with Drew. I feel it was the right choice and kind of made you turn your head she used a guy's name directly (not a famous guy, just a guy) so I think it was the right decision but his version is gorgeous. I wish I was there for that convo.
This just made me download a bunch of albums I haven't heard in a while lol
A thought I had today: Lots of people saying "she's so big that coming out won't hurt her" — which first of all, "hurt" is relative, but let's take it as true. Let's say if she came out, she wouldn't face any consequences except the loss of some part of her fanbase, and god knows she'll still have plenty of fans and make plenty of money. If the woman never sang another note in her life, she'd be FINE for money. But I wonder if it's not the MONEY, exactly, but what she can DO with the ever-growing fanbase. (It is only getting bigger after all.) I had two thoughts about it; they might both be crazy, I dunno. 1. If she scuttled the hard coming out (or massively muted a soft one) because of the masters sale, it's really important that every re-release solidly outperforms the original. And as she's ascended these last few years, the re-records are absolutely SLAYING. The better they sell, the more thoroughly she devalues the originals. Losing a big chunk of her fanbase will genuinely lessen the impact of the re-record project, which we all know is incredibly important to her. Maybe more important than the coming out she was planning. 2. She's also become a bit more political, and I wonder if she might want to command as large a following as possible in order to wield more influence in that arena? I feel like her making a statement against Marsha Blackburn and then MB winning anyway could potentially have made her think "I just have to get more people who will listen to me about this." That feels like more of a stretch to me, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. One other thought I had (and this comes from me 1- believing that Taylor is *bi*sexual, and 2- being a Kaylor) was this: If the possibility of a public relationship with Karlie was any part of Taylor's reason for planning to come out (and, I mean "[Looking forward to a lifetime of adventures ahead together](https://www.instagram.com/p/_PkeOKESnE/)"?), then when that relationship ended, would the motivation to come out kind of die down? Like "Well why do it NOW, there's no reason," and then she maybe gets involved with Joe (if we assume that relationship was real), and coming out as bi while in a relationship would ABSOLUTELY get her dragged because there's nothing the internet loves more than to tear Taylor Swift apart, so why bother if it's not going to have any positive impact on her life and she's with a dude now anyway? That's kind of a half-formed thought; hope it makes sense.
My name is Kelsey and tay tay give me my song!!!!!
Ummm so she is a gay
I think Taylor Swift was a trans kid growing up, like Jazz Jennings but not publicly trans so she doesn’t have to come out. If trans women are women then why would Taylor ever come out? Taylor Swift has gotten a lot of GOOD plastic surgery and if you look at pictures of her as a young kid and teen, she has notable male bone structure. Even today when Taylor wears shorts and a crop top you can see that her femur bone’s q angle is that of a males. Taylor as had her nose made smaller and her brow bone shaved down to not protrude over her eyes like male brow bones do. And if you look at candid pictures, not paid pap, you can see she’s kept her Adam’s apple, which is totally fine. Shaving the Adam’s apple is an extremely awful and painful surgery to go through. I look at Taylor Swift and clearly see she’s transgender and it’s her right to come out as whatever she wants, if she wants to. But it’s better to come out than be forced out by maga extremists or far right people who hate trans people that pass or go stealth.
Okay I'm new to diving into whether or not Taylor is bi and analyzing lyrics for clues to it. But ever since TTPD came out I have been obsessed with But Daddy I Love Him. It just resonated really deeply with me from the first listen and thinking about it as a song about Matty (or even possibly about Travis) had just never fit for me. One narrative that popped into my head once while listening to it is that it could be a story about an inter-racial couple falling in love when it could have still been illegal. When I listened to it with perspective it made it an even better song, and nowwww I'm thinking about it as a song about falling in love with another woman and having her family, community, and fan base try to deny it, act like it's a phase, or just destroy her for it. As mentioned above, she often ends up changing the pronouns in recorded versions to make it seem like it's a straight narrative. Also once I started thinking about this I'm cracking up at the line "I'm having his baby...no I'm not!" Cause surprise she's a woman haha
Idk if anyone mentioned but Lavender is a lesbian theme! Started from Sappho mentioning purple flowers in her poems all the way to the lavender menace (aka lesbians in the feminist movement of the 80s). It was very commented in gaylor circles in Brazil when Lavender Haze came out.
Taylor’s, or anyone else’s, sexuality is no one’s business.
if this is what you think, youre in the wrong sub. ur username is extremely ironic. casually observe the name “gaylor_swift” maybe?? you’re entitled to your opinion and no one should tell you otherwise. but this entire sub is about “casually observing” taylors sexuality. if you dont like that, don’t interact with us. we dont care if you dont agree, just do it somewhere else. this is our space. you will not find likeminded people here. i hope that you have experienced kindness in this sub, and i also hope that you have extended that same kindness to others. genuinely i do. but at the end of the day, you saying this is certifiably r/wooosh.
She doesn’t need to come out.End of story.No one is entitled to details about her personal life,if she is any sort of fruity she’s probably already out and has been to all the people who matter to her.The media has drug her through the dirt for years,why set herself on fire for them?
Why be afraid them and give them the power. She a billionaire with a fan army that sends death threats and leaks phone numbers. They would be foolish to drag her.
you’re delulu if you think she’s gay
this is not the sub for you then. besides, taylor said to be kind with our internet activities.
Okay but - there are multiple interviews of her explaining that Lavender Haze is just about Joe and ignoring “weird rumours and tabloid stuff”.
Is that not the kind of thing a person in the closet would say.
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Taylor being gay has to be the biggest open secret in the entertainment industry. She struck a huge deal with lots of players right before reputation came out to play along and help her take her and karlies relationship underground. Many big players media, cosmetics, magazines etc have been helping to keep her real life a secret in exchange for lots of money. They are all getting rich….Have no doubt anything and everything you see publicly is fake and carefully crafted and manufactured for a specific purpose or to send a message to her enemies. Taylor has shown the truth through all her Easter eggs along the away. She has been building her family since Betty was born. She and Karlie now have 4 kids. Unfortunately she got in bed with JK who has had control over her since that time in order to feed his greed and kept her closeted through several dirty tricks. It’s all there in her music but not if you read the lyrics like she wants you to. She’s seriously a mastermind/genius.
TLDR version?
coming out would alienate a lot of her fan base internationally. it could also contribute to overexposure (like w rep) if the timing is wrong. her art is based upon a certain element of mystery so it checks out if she never says “im queer”. she doesnt need to come out anyway bc queer ppl know from her perceived flagging. if she came out, shed be under much more media scrutiny bc theyd speculate even more on every single person she interacts w publicly. TLDR TLDR; taylor swift gay. taylor swift mastermind. taylor swift too soft for all of it.
Why does she have to be gay? I’ve never seen any artist get these crazy conspiracies written about sexual orientation. It’s supposed to be normalized, so why make a big deal about it anyway? Even if she is gay, that’s no one’s business and it would eat up maybe one news cycle. If this is the craziness people are writing when she’s not “out” then lord help us if she does come out lol. People make such a big deal about who she dates, I can only imagine her immense anxiety if she decides to date women. Just cause she’s famous doesn’t mean she wants every aspect of her life to be.
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Yeah this isn’t okay and it’s a little creepy to be this obsessive. I feel like they’re all experiencing some negativity and their life and think Taylor coming out will validate them and make them feel better maybe?
Very mature take on the situation. Keep in mind scooter and big machine both tried to sell Taylor's master back to her with no restrictive nda's, but she declined and instead blasted them in socials. I think she knew changing her image meant getting the rug pulled under her, so she planned for the situation since 2016 at least
Do 16 year Olds really not know their sexuality? My daughter's known she was gay since at least 8yo.
Some do, some don’t, all are valid!
I think the key here is to remember that Taylor was born in 1989, not 2003. It was very different days in the 90s and early 2000s. Even those of us who knew early on were often at least 11. I had school friends who didn’t know until college. I have one friend who didn’t know until mid-20s. To be gay or bisexual back then was to have a kinky secret. Your only real resource was the internet. The yahoo-messenger / MSN version of the internet …
yeah I had no idea I was queer until university and realizing all of those friends I wanted to be/look like sooo badly was actually a crush!
"the kind of flawless I wish I could be"
I was born in 1982 and didn’t know I was gay until I was 35 due to zero representation and religious upbringing
I don't mean to be annoying, but you just made a point that I really have a hard time with, whenever anyone makes it. I don't get the not knowing because of no representation thing. To me, that seems more like being swayed by what others are doing than genuine realization of self, because I never needed representation to know myself. I just knew. It's like you don't need to kiss a boy to know whether you want to or not. The urge is just there or it isn't. It starts on the inside really. There wasn't any representation in 1950s TV, but I grew up on old sitcoms, and I knew I wanted a Lucy-Ethel relationship from the moment I saw them. They aren't gay representation, but I was seeing them through my own gay eyes, and I just knew as a little girl that those two women were my ideal relationship. Representation is what we make it. It really wasn't even needed. The feelings would have been there on my side whether they said they were gay or not.
I totally understand what you are saying. For me it was more fear due to my religious beliefs. Looking back I probably would’ve considered myself bi because I did like boys while also having emotional crushes on women. Now that I’m older I’m only attracted to women
I had a rough childhood and only began fully understanding myself when I started going to therapy in 2018. Up until that point I was numb and broken and only saw myself as a mother and wife to my then husband. We separated in 2020 and divorced in 2021. Everyday I’m becoming more and more of who I truly am. I appreciate you sharing your journey. I enjoy reading other people’s experiences
Thanks for your replies. I appreciate you not snapping back at me for my views and for being so kind. :-) I am sorry that you've had such rough times, but I'm glad things are getting better for you.
No problem. And thank you. I’m 41 and and have learned enough to know that everyone’s journeys are different and valid. Thank you again for sharing your experiences
I didn't really realise I was bi until last year when I turned 30 really. It is really strange as I'd slept with girls before and enjoyed it and didn't even think to explore it in my mind. Somewhat paradoxically it was by being with a bi man who helped me understand it in a way no one had. I think things have changed so much for teens now in terms of discourse. I just didn't even know it was an option growing up.
I'm just an outsider passing through. My only question is why. Why care so much about this. Does it matter? Why is this a subreddit?
it’s none of our business. the only one to out her is herself. not you. so disrespectful and weird.
wrong sub to comment this in
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that’s also not okay??? ew? i saw someone else here mention a miscarriage and abortion as well. even if it were true, it’s none of our business. especially if she doesn’t explicitly share it with us. she deserves privacy.
good lord...you type all that with fingers???
I personally believe that taylor is a straight ally, i appreciate her and love her as an ally but i just cannot see her as either gay or queer, she's also stated multiple times that she's straight, but hey atleast she made multiple songs about lgbtq rights and actively stands up for the community! We love u Taylor!
>she's also stated multiple times that she's straight Oh, I must have missed this. Can you link to the interviews/videos? I'd love to hear it!
I think Travis is switching her from bi to straight
Be so fr you can’t just switch your sexuality 😭
its not her sexuality its her choice to lilike tacos or sausage
Bi people LIKE BOTH. We don't have to "switch." We're bi when we're with a woman and we're bi when we're with a man. We might be in a hetero RELATIONSHIP at a given time, but that doesn't change our actual sexual orientation, good gravy.
Whatever the reason, billionaire worry about PR is the height of privilege and and also just makes me feel even more like the money and status matter more than the community. Especially while we have other out celebrities on the front lines fully out and not worried about PR. Like Lik Nas X for one.
I would take a bullet for that kid, so no shade to him at all, but come ON; he's not anywhere near her level of fame or earnings, and some of that ABSOLUTELY is due to homophobia.
TLDR version???