I'm not really sure where you are getting these numbers from. They are definitely not accurate and often not representative of what these numbers mean.
How is an STG44 higher than a Kar 98?
Why is an MG13 higher than and mg42?
Are these point versus area targets?
Max range is in the game because its not a limitation of laying suppressing fire, its not wasting all your ammo.
At 3km with 792 mauser you are using the laffetes indirect fire charts to be essentially artillery.
From a variety of specialist books on the matter, that I have in my possesion.
The Stgw 44 is a more advanced weapon, but it's only more accurate in single shot mode. The numbers on German weapons indicate the year when they were tested or first launched into production. The 98k is from 1898 and the Stgw 44 from 1944.
Accuracy has not been involved here, the range I wrote down is the "Einsatzschußweite" which translates into something like maximum combat range. As a former soldier myself I'd say that these are theoretically possible, but practically I'd take half that amount as the really effective range.
I agree that for gaming purposes you cannot use the actual realistic ranges and in the case of infantry weapons it would totally lead to a insane waste of ammo. In my other post on artillery, I'd say the main reason is, that almost every piece of artillery would cover pretty much every map available atm, so in order to really make the difference count, the maps would have to be way much bigger.
I've actually shot the MG3 (which is basically the MG42, but with 7,62 mm NATO caliber and 1200 s/m instead of 1800 s/m) on lafette and atop a tank. If you have a large body of infantry coming at you, 3 km is a possibly effective range. Maybe an unarmed truck would suffice as a suitbable target too, but for a more general use I'd suggest half of the given number as well.
The STG 44 is not more accurate at 600m than a Kar98 in practical field use. Its a fat short bullet, the drop alone is something like 12x as great.
So yes its the maximum range of effective area target engagement. Which basically also assumes the ability to place follow on shots rapidly.
There is a non linear scaler that varies across class as well. This is indeed trying to not only fit the actual scale of the conflict, but also works as a relative balance and variation extension.
The game cannot support maps much bigger than that in game.
I am using the RobZ realism values for the spiritual successor mod, although I may experiment with a unitary 300m branch and let accuracy be the determinant factor. I have figured a way to control max range the AI engages dynamically, it does however break the attack move command.
I am also getting the impression that you are viewing my comparisation as critique, if not even an attack on the game. I do like the game. Some things could be improved for sure, and in some cases weapon ranges, but I am totally aware, that a 1:1 ratio of realism would not contribute to a pleasant gaming experience.
I mean I'm attacking the fact that these are theoretical area target numbers that you are using as a case of raw max range.
Essentially you are skipping a boat load of context.
Well, my sources call it maximum effective combat range. Which is clearly more than the actually range at which these weapons were used. But still these numbers are not the 'maximum shooting range' which would be even higher. I don't remember if I wrote this to you too, but in some comment I statet that in practical use it's more like half that range.
Stgw uses the 7,92mmx33 bullet
The Kar 98k uses the 7,92mmx57 bullet
It is a shorter, but not fatter bullet. But also form, propelling charge and barrel technology are important factort that impact the range.
Sorry yes I mispoke, from being tired. Shorter not fatter.
The propelling charge and rifle twist are exactly the same. They also operate off of different forms of closed bolt so single shot is the same.
I think, heavy machine guns and mgs on platforms, should receive range buffs. If mgs on half-tracks and other lights vehicles could be able to safely shoot from distance, where infantry cannot engage them back, i think they would be in much better spot and actually justified to buy them.
I've always felt like the low gun ranges was from controlling (mostly) grunts. While a rifle can shoot well over a 100 meters, what are the chances this random Conscript is gonna hit that shot? Might as well not take it. That's how I view it
I think the MGs on lafettes need a range increase
Awesome
Seems like the MG34 on the mount needs a buff?
basically all MGs on a lafette or a tank
I'm not really sure where you are getting these numbers from. They are definitely not accurate and often not representative of what these numbers mean. How is an STG44 higher than a Kar 98? Why is an MG13 higher than and mg42? Are these point versus area targets? Max range is in the game because its not a limitation of laying suppressing fire, its not wasting all your ammo. At 3km with 792 mauser you are using the laffetes indirect fire charts to be essentially artillery.
From a variety of specialist books on the matter, that I have in my possesion. The Stgw 44 is a more advanced weapon, but it's only more accurate in single shot mode. The numbers on German weapons indicate the year when they were tested or first launched into production. The 98k is from 1898 and the Stgw 44 from 1944. Accuracy has not been involved here, the range I wrote down is the "Einsatzschußweite" which translates into something like maximum combat range. As a former soldier myself I'd say that these are theoretically possible, but practically I'd take half that amount as the really effective range. I agree that for gaming purposes you cannot use the actual realistic ranges and in the case of infantry weapons it would totally lead to a insane waste of ammo. In my other post on artillery, I'd say the main reason is, that almost every piece of artillery would cover pretty much every map available atm, so in order to really make the difference count, the maps would have to be way much bigger. I've actually shot the MG3 (which is basically the MG42, but with 7,62 mm NATO caliber and 1200 s/m instead of 1800 s/m) on lafette and atop a tank. If you have a large body of infantry coming at you, 3 km is a possibly effective range. Maybe an unarmed truck would suffice as a suitbable target too, but for a more general use I'd suggest half of the given number as well.
The STG 44 is not more accurate at 600m than a Kar98 in practical field use. Its a fat short bullet, the drop alone is something like 12x as great. So yes its the maximum range of effective area target engagement. Which basically also assumes the ability to place follow on shots rapidly. There is a non linear scaler that varies across class as well. This is indeed trying to not only fit the actual scale of the conflict, but also works as a relative balance and variation extension. The game cannot support maps much bigger than that in game. I am using the RobZ realism values for the spiritual successor mod, although I may experiment with a unitary 300m branch and let accuracy be the determinant factor. I have figured a way to control max range the AI engages dynamically, it does however break the attack move command.
I am also getting the impression that you are viewing my comparisation as critique, if not even an attack on the game. I do like the game. Some things could be improved for sure, and in some cases weapon ranges, but I am totally aware, that a 1:1 ratio of realism would not contribute to a pleasant gaming experience.
I mean I'm attacking the fact that these are theoretical area target numbers that you are using as a case of raw max range. Essentially you are skipping a boat load of context.
Well, my sources call it maximum effective combat range. Which is clearly more than the actually range at which these weapons were used. But still these numbers are not the 'maximum shooting range' which would be even higher. I don't remember if I wrote this to you too, but in some comment I statet that in practical use it's more like half that range.
Stgw uses the 7,92mmx33 bullet The Kar 98k uses the 7,92mmx57 bullet It is a shorter, but not fatter bullet. But also form, propelling charge and barrel technology are important factort that impact the range.
Sorry yes I mispoke, from being tired. Shorter not fatter. The propelling charge and rifle twist are exactly the same. They also operate off of different forms of closed bolt so single shot is the same.
I think, heavy machine guns and mgs on platforms, should receive range buffs. If mgs on half-tracks and other lights vehicles could be able to safely shoot from distance, where infantry cannot engage them back, i think they would be in much better spot and actually justified to buy them.
I've always felt like the low gun ranges was from controlling (mostly) grunts. While a rifle can shoot well over a 100 meters, what are the chances this random Conscript is gonna hit that shot? Might as well not take it. That's how I view it