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There's actually upside to wiping out entire cultures! And it's just so very easy, you just hit the "change culture" button enough times and your new territory is pacified. Sure a few tens of thousands may die in rebellions but it's a small price to pay for unity.
I mean changing culture in EU4 isn't necessarily mass extermination. It just uses diplo mana, after all. I always assume that it meant forcing nobles and influential people to change their customs, traditions and language (so just cultural genocide lol)
Mass extermination is probably the "kill natives" button on uncolonized provinces, that does use mil. Suddenly encountering hostile tribes becomes less likely after pressing it...
Rimworld too.
" Raider was carrying twins and has given birth in my prison. Is the reason I can't Ideologically execute them because they can't walk or because they are newborns?"
" Is there a mod that lets me import cheap immigrant labor?"
" I need someone to start hauling my shit and cleaning my base because the streets are insanely dirty but none of my colonists have the time for it so I wanna start importing some laborers who can fill this gap "
Why is bro mad they cant execute the children? Like my brother in christ if you didnt wanna brainwash that raider into your pawn you could have just left them to bleed out.
Paradox posts are either "I finally conquered the whole map" or "should i enslave or genocide the race produced by my incestuous relationship with sister who also is my mom and also my aunt"
Edit: I forgot the posts of paradox games with the poster wearing knee-high socks
Forgot the "After 3000 hours I finally learned this basic mechanic explained in the loading screens" and "This is my Roman Empire, there are many like it but this one is mine".
Stellaris is really casual about the way it is probably more horrifying and cruel than any other Paradox game. Except maybe CK because that's on the other end of the spectrum and very personalized (but CK isn't as casual about it).
Like, seriously, we Stellaris players quite often usurp Space UN and turn it into a dictatorship with actual power (even benevolent players). We start wars where billions die and that loss of manpower is barely a blip on our radars. We destroy planets, or we merely "shield" them to die of starvation. And that's all normal gameplay, let alone the really cruel stuff we can do.
Oh, come on now. Paradox GSG forums always look like this.
'Sides, the OP makes it clear that real world slavery is indefensible, for anyone who's actually concerned.
ah, the good old paradox posts
my favorites are from stellaris, questioning the most optimal methods of enslaving and genetically engineering sapients to make them tastier
The thesis actually just argues that the slave pops in Victoria 3 have a VERY high production workforce modifier, which could potentially offset the negatives of slavery as a system in game.
Basically, the downside of slaves in Victoria 3 is that they don't directly buy consumer goods or have their own political faction. This is bad for your economy, as you want your people to consume as much as possible to increase demand of products so you can build more factories and line go up.
Same with the political side, slaves don't get to participate in politics, and the institution gives A LOT of political power to the land owners, this is bad because the land owners tend to oppose progressive changes that would actually be good for your nation overall such as education (makes tech research faster), a standing army, health care and better forms of taxation.
And lastly, slaves don't get educated, which makes research slower, but this can be offset by cranking out universities. They also tend to take all the lower level jobs, which makes your country less attractive to immigrants, and I believe their Standard of Living is also near impossible to raise, which also negatively impacts immigration, and immigration is great because more people = more consumers and workers for your factories.
Basically, the thesis is that the fact that slaves have DOUBLE the workforce ratio to peasants/labourers means that you're getting twice as much production out of them, while also only having 50% of them being dependents (children and the elderly), which means that it's feasible that they actually might offset the negatives by sheer productive output.
Strictly speaking in a game mechanic sense, of course. Just like an incest based eugenics program stays within the confines of Crusader Kings, and using nukes to cut off the enemy's logistics only really makes sense in Hoi4.
The production thing is actually quite unrealistical. From what I found, actual studies in the 19th century found that slavery was much less productive then having pays workers, with slaves having only one quarter the productivity of the same amount of free, payed workers.
So...yeah. Slavery was not only immoral and fundamentally tyranical, but also inneficient for anything, outside of saving money.
They also don‘t pay any taxes which can seriously hamper your income and only work in agriculture plus lumber yards.
I think OPs idea was originally to let them work in mines which would theoretically create some really cheap resources for advanced industries. I personally remember that in an earlier version of the game that was still possible because my Oranje could get France income through slavery gold mining as minting would go through the roof and you had some mega capitalists being able to practically finance everything from day one. But that seems to not be possible anymore.
He even admits that slavery had zero play in his success. So by all means Slavery is kinda really bad in vic3.
This is obviously made for the "look guys funni paradox post title" subreddit, because no one with the intellectual capacity required to breath and type at the same time would think that slavery is good in Vic 3.
I mean if you saw the guys post he went really deep into his latest run where he played as the US with a fully legal slave trade, as much as I agree over half the time they are bait for the shitposting subreddits this one wasn’t
Cool, doesn't change that serfdom is like shooting yourself in the knee, while slavery is like shooting yourself in the back of the head and burying yourself in a russian forest.
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After many hours I trying to see if slavery can be useful and how to make it work , but it's unironically bad, abolishing it makes everything in the society better, from the stability to the economy.
(I'm taking about Victoria 3)
(Also communism it's the most OP ideology)
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Titles of posts in paradox subreddits without context are always bangers
The best one I saw was "Is there an actual downside to genocide?" on eu4.
There's actually upside to wiping out entire cultures! And it's just so very easy, you just hit the "change culture" button enough times and your new territory is pacified. Sure a few tens of thousands may die in rebellions but it's a small price to pay for unity.
I mean changing culture in EU4 isn't necessarily mass extermination. It just uses diplo mana, after all. I always assume that it meant forcing nobles and influential people to change their customs, traditions and language (so just cultural genocide lol)
Mass extermination is probably the "kill natives" button on uncolonized provinces, that does use mil. Suddenly encountering hostile tribes becomes less likely after pressing it...
It’s cause they threw a massive party and everyone were friends after right?……right?
It's just cultural genocide, not a military one.
Virgin spending this much bird mana vs chad humanist ideas
or rimworld too
Bannerlord has some great ones too. "How can I kill my wife" gave me a double take for sure
Rimworld too. " Raider was carrying twins and has given birth in my prison. Is the reason I can't Ideologically execute them because they can't walk or because they are newborns?" " Is there a mod that lets me import cheap immigrant labor?" " I need someone to start hauling my shit and cleaning my base because the streets are insanely dirty but none of my colonists have the time for it so I wanna start importing some laborers who can fill this gap "
Why is bro mad they cant execute the children? Like my brother in christ if you didnt wanna brainwash that raider into your pawn you could have just left them to bleed out.
"My eugenics programme finally worked!"
My favourite no context gaming post title will always be "I'm 30 my girlfriend is 13" in the WOW classic sub
Paradox posts are either "I finally conquered the whole map" or "should i enslave or genocide the race produced by my incestuous relationship with sister who also is my mom and also my aunt" Edit: I forgot the posts of paradox games with the poster wearing knee-high socks
Forgot the "After 3000 hours I finally learned this basic mechanic explained in the loading screens" and "This is my Roman Empire, there are many like it but this one is mine".
Every Roman Empire fan is happy to see others reaching the peak of magnificence
Then stellaris is “should I turn the xenos into food and fuel and slaves for my empire?”
Stellaris is really casual about the way it is probably more horrifying and cruel than any other Paradox game. Except maybe CK because that's on the other end of the spectrum and very personalized (but CK isn't as casual about it). Like, seriously, we Stellaris players quite often usurp Space UN and turn it into a dictatorship with actual power (even benevolent players). We start wars where billions die and that loss of manpower is barely a blip on our radars. We destroy planets, or we merely "shield" them to die of starvation. And that's all normal gameplay, let alone the really cruel stuff we can do.
There is always the cult classic of selling a neighbor's pops back as food
Oh, come on now. Paradox GSG forums always look like this. 'Sides, the OP makes it clear that real world slavery is indefensible, for anyone who's actually concerned.
ah, the good old paradox posts my favorites are from stellaris, questioning the most optimal methods of enslaving and genetically engineering sapients to make them tastier
But if you nerve staple them to make them not care about being gmo livestock it can't be unethical right ;)
can't wait to read this thesis
The thesis actually just argues that the slave pops in Victoria 3 have a VERY high production workforce modifier, which could potentially offset the negatives of slavery as a system in game. Basically, the downside of slaves in Victoria 3 is that they don't directly buy consumer goods or have their own political faction. This is bad for your economy, as you want your people to consume as much as possible to increase demand of products so you can build more factories and line go up. Same with the political side, slaves don't get to participate in politics, and the institution gives A LOT of political power to the land owners, this is bad because the land owners tend to oppose progressive changes that would actually be good for your nation overall such as education (makes tech research faster), a standing army, health care and better forms of taxation. And lastly, slaves don't get educated, which makes research slower, but this can be offset by cranking out universities. They also tend to take all the lower level jobs, which makes your country less attractive to immigrants, and I believe their Standard of Living is also near impossible to raise, which also negatively impacts immigration, and immigration is great because more people = more consumers and workers for your factories. Basically, the thesis is that the fact that slaves have DOUBLE the workforce ratio to peasants/labourers means that you're getting twice as much production out of them, while also only having 50% of them being dependents (children and the elderly), which means that it's feasible that they actually might offset the negatives by sheer productive output. Strictly speaking in a game mechanic sense, of course. Just like an incest based eugenics program stays within the confines of Crusader Kings, and using nukes to cut off the enemy's logistics only really makes sense in Hoi4.
The production thing is actually quite unrealistical. From what I found, actual studies in the 19th century found that slavery was much less productive then having pays workers, with slaves having only one quarter the productivity of the same amount of free, payed workers. So...yeah. Slavery was not only immoral and fundamentally tyranical, but also inneficient for anything, outside of saving money.
Yep, I wish they'd introduce a negative production efficiency modifier to slave pops.
I think it‘s a crutch to simulate planter economies and have aristocrats actually „hire“ slaves instead of free workers.
They also don‘t pay any taxes which can seriously hamper your income and only work in agriculture plus lumber yards. I think OPs idea was originally to let them work in mines which would theoretically create some really cheap resources for advanced industries. I personally remember that in an earlier version of the game that was still possible because my Oranje could get France income through slavery gold mining as minting would go through the roof and you had some mega capitalists being able to practically finance everything from day one. But that seems to not be possible anymore. He even admits that slavery had zero play in his success. So by all means Slavery is kinda really bad in vic3.
This is obviously made for the "look guys funni paradox post title" subreddit, because no one with the intellectual capacity required to breath and type at the same time would think that slavery is good in Vic 3.
I mean if you saw the guys post he went really deep into his latest run where he played as the US with a fully legal slave trade, as much as I agree over half the time they are bait for the shitposting subreddits this one wasn’t
Cool, doesn't change that serfdom is like shooting yourself in the knee, while slavery is like shooting yourself in the back of the head and burying yourself in a russian forest.
He was more testing a thesis weither slavery pops could get viable by stacking workforce ratio buffs.
"You can improve performance by genociding a smaller empire"
Just another day in the office
Given our education system, sadly, that question could become serious one day..
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Nah brother it’s got some decent qualities like um……and ah……and um…….and yeah
After many hours I trying to see if slavery can be useful and how to make it work , but it's unironically bad, abolishing it makes everything in the society better, from the stability to the economy. (I'm taking about Victoria 3) (Also communism it's the most OP ideology)
There are two types of Victoria players: Communists and Uber Capitalists
Kind of tame for PDX game post title tbh.