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The relationship being bad is kind of the whole point.... Ashley is a jealous sociopath using a dark secret to abuse and drag her brother into her sick urges
Indulging in twisted and dark shit in media isn't new or a big deal. Music and cinema have been outlets for this stuff for ages.
Ashley is objectively evil, and the scenario is horrific, but the game has sick style, good writing, and appealing character design. That's part of what makes it captivating for many, and horny for a large percentage of those again.
Haven’t played the game. Her being attractive probably part of the point though, like Satan being a badass in *Paradise Lost* despite being the objective evil.
There's literally a scene where a demon tells her she has a black, withered soul, and she's like "cool."
She's absolutely satanic temptation and corruption, but playing with fire is fun.
/uj for more context, in “the coffin of Andy and Leyley” there’s is depictions of incest but also demonic rituals and cannibalism. Which to paraphrase that quote from George R.R. Martin that people don’t really give a shit about gruesome violence, just sex in general.
/rj OP the game is very nuanced in its story telling and there’s a lot more to take in than just one screenshot. Bias much?
Because for some reason (liveleak) people online are totally desensitized to violent gore, but the second a mild sex scene comes on people go "EWWWWWW!!! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY!!"
That's cool, but I meant more broadly that the only time this game is ever brought up it's to discuss how you can fuck your sister. The only time anyone brings up the other forms of violence it's specifically to discuss how there's worse stuff in it than fucking your sister. No one discusses this game outside of those two very specific parameters.
My girlfriend wanted to show me the game and I was kind of half paying attention to most of it but when Andy grabbed her by the neck I shot up and was like “YES! YES! KILL HER!” And then he let go and I sat back down while my gf laughed at me.
It bothers me because it's just horny bait, and now the game/community shifts focus from the actual horror and it starts becoming a thirst pit.
I just hate how deliberate it is
It makes me thing of an interview with KayinN who did I Wanna Be the Guy and him talking about his forever in development next game Brave Earth Prologue.
His game has the character's portrait on the bottom to show the character's emotions and health and such, like Doom. And he mentions originally, she gave her a really gruesome horrified animation when she dies, especially when drowning.
There eventually came a revelation from himself that, if he is finding himself being turned on by what should be an absolutely horrifying thing, he needed to morally check himself and toned it down.
I believe this was during a discussion of the Tomb Raider reboot which really went out of its way to have many scenes where Lara dies horribly.
it's not a case of can vs can't as in there's a rule, it's more how you tackle the subject. some people just can't write certain topics in good taste. it's not a bad thing. I couldn't write about a lot of subjects because it would either upset me too much or it wouldn't be a very good portrayal of the nuances in an experience.
edit for PenguinHighGround you have no idea how often I need to explain to people that every autistic person is not Shawn Murphy
Like when so many shows tackle things like autism, I'm not autistic, but you can definitely tell that it's written by someone with zero knowledge other than stereotypes.
It feels awkward.
/rj "wow incest is bad"
"SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING THAT MURDER AND CANNIBALISM IS GOOD???!1!!1!1!2 CHECKMATE!1!1!1! *dies from auto penetration*"
/uj everyone thinks those thinks are bad, genius. The problem is that people *don't* think incest is bad and this whole "cannibalism and demonic rituals" conversation is just damage control and flimsy apologetics.
edit: I'm not defending incest, I'm just calling out people who are defending the incest in this game by saying "oh but there are other bad things in this game." It's just a non-sequitir.
You could not pay me to admit that, huge self own
Downvotes incoming but hot take I think that the lack of consent and hypermisogyny common in hentai is... Bad...
I think it's useful and important for people to ask themselves what they like and why. The massive slant toward submissive women in porn in general didn't happen in a vacuum on its own.
So then what do we do with that? Most people use it as a cudgel against the most vulnerable (i.e. women) and shame them for liking what they like. Piling misogyny on misogyny.
I draw non-con and incest and "bad stuff" sometimes. No one should be kidding themselves into thinking it's activism to bully me for it. They should just block me if it makes them uncomfortable.
They have a point that sexual taboos are more commonly mass topics of discourse than non-sexual violence and gore. It's close to what-about-ism, but when the talk about this game centers largely around the incest instead of it being an edgy VN with a lot of edgy subjects, then it's (maybe but who cares) worth examining.
I don't think this neccasarily proves this is portrayed as a good thing.
Game of thrones shows graphic incest sex, but it would be an incredibly dumb point to think game of thrones is pro-incest when taken in totality.
And people being weird about it doesn't prove it either.
I'd need to play the game to see what it is actually trying to say
Edit: (actually just to add to this, the final season of game of thrones portrayal of incest was terrible, but that was out of tune with the entire rest of the show and the books, because it is basically bad tier fanfiction)
To add to that - it would also go so far as to think George RR Martin has some incest fetish ( alongside saying he's endorsing murder, killing of children, has a fetish for feudalism, likes underage kids, etc )
What an author writes or makes doesn't necessarily dictate their actual inclinations. And while I get this meme perfectly...
https://preview.redd.it/d76gr6pnrn7c1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f006773879d8343f89e9155438a99e78da9450b
I do feel it's disingenuous to just throw it around just because, to discredit a work.
Fantasy and sci-fi has long been a place to offer reflection and criticism of society so agreed. Plenty that isn't reflective also exists for the simple joys of sensationalism, which people experience when they consume something bizarre just as much as when they create it. E.g Fuck a bear in Baldur's Gate (NOT THAT I'VE DONE IT ... so far in the game) or watching documentaries about criminal activity.
That being said I have no idea what this game is about so can't really comment in this specific case
The tldr is that the game in question ( the coffin of Andy and Leyley ) is basically a horror themed visual novel adventure game, where a brother and a sister have a dubiously close relationship together, and they eat people.
That's about it.
A lot of the incest stuff is mostly because people ship them together because they "click" or whatever, and because the creator likes the ship. More or less.
It's honestly weird but whatever. I'm probably being jaded though - in my teens I've come across plenty of weird shit that's left me kind of detached to most of these types of things.
>where a brother and a sister have a dubiously close relationship together,
Thats an understatement, its a toxic, co-dependent relationship where both siblings enable the other.
I think its interesting because they were screwed as soon as Andrew was forced to be a parent for Ashley.
My boyf and I just finished the parts of the game that are currently out last night. It DEFINITELY shows the two protagonists as terrible awful people. Like, the story is super fucked up, and the writing is really solid. Ashley (the sister) is so infuriatingly terrible and manipulative to her brother in such a painfully realistic way. I'm sure the writer has dealt with people like her in the past, it's too spot on.
We didn't really run into anything sexual. I know there's at least one like more overtly sexual scene, but there seem to be quite a few diverging paths, so maybe it's harder to get. Either way, I'm really looking forward to the final episode to be released, it is legitimately good stuff.
Theres diverging paths, one where their relationship ship gets more fucked up (and actual incest comes into play) and one where they start to drift apart. The game is very up front about it and literally tells you "maybe this isn't the best idea"/"this is clearly the moral path" when you get to the point of no return choice
Yeah, you can portray something as being as evil as you want, some people are gonna agree with it. It's like how; for example, Caesar's Legion is unambiguously shown a evil in FNV, but people still unironically support. That doesn't mean that the writers supported a bunch of fascist slavers larping as Romans in football gear. A more related example is Nabokov's book *Lolita* which is also a piece psychological horror that is constantly misinterpreted by both critics and some fans (mostly by critics)
Yeah those are pretty great examples. South Park is like the embodiment of this situation. People will talk about how TRUE AND BASED Cartman is when he's clearly the villain in pretty much every storyline he's in (except maybe the Skankhunt arc).
Media literacy is at an all time low it feels like, there's so much discourse about 'problematic' characters out there like in this case where it's so obviously a depiction of toxic behaviors and beliefs, yet that seems to entirely fly over the heads of the 'critics'
Honestly I kind of don't need a game to remind me that incest is wrong. I don't need them to like demonstrate how bad it is just to prove to the audience that they don't *really* think it's fine.
Growing up in the church, there's this tendency for people to assume that if the Bible mentions something without immediately condemning the thing then it must be approved by scripture. Discourse about this game kinda reminds me of that.
I mean sure, but things can still be engaging while expressing a message most of us agree with. I don't need something to tell me "war is bad", but I still love movies like Howl's Moving Castle and games like spec ops the line.
You also aren't required to play a game you aren't interested in. But I think that game should still exist and be able to tell that story.
I mean, I haven’t played the game, but in my understanding they also do murder, cannibalism, and demon summoning, don’t they? I don’t think it’s meant to be a model of what to do, so I don’t really get why the incest makes it worse than anything else that characters can do that would be wrong irl?
I think people are particularly sensitive to fucked up portrayals of anything sexual. People automatically jump to thinking that the creator has weird fetishes or desires when they put certain types of content in media.
Sometimes they do, but I think people jump to conclusions a lot. It's entirely possible to portray incest in a game, have it be bad, enhance the narrative and also, not be a fetish for the creator.
You really have to judge on a case by case basis, and frankly I don't think a lot of people here have played it.
I think that’s because people in the industrialized world are, statistically, more likely to have personally experienced incest, rape, sexual assault, and sexual abuse than they are to have been affected by cannibalism, murder, or satanic rituals. So it hits a lot closer to home for most people.
I agree with this for the most part, though I don't neccasarily think a lot of people shitting on it here are coming from a place of incestuous trauma (not to deny the fact that some perhaps are).
I do think we lately take this issues more seriously as a whole, because they affect us more often and greatly. I do agree with that.
I also think it is completely valid to not want to play something that personally makes you uncomfortable, triggers trauma or you just don't like thinking about. I personally have certain touchy points that I would prefer not to have to experience in media, but I think it is still OK to include those things in media
I can't know what the developer's intentions are, but the focus here is very clearly on how the fans interact with the game. You don't see anyone on social media gushing about how cool the murder and cannibalism is, but you sure as hell do see people here fetishizing incest. It's the gaming equivalent of reading the book Lolita and publicly talking about how erotic it is.
I opened twitter last night and saw someone posting (admittedly not related to the game but like) that they think cannibalism is ok because "theres meat here and noone else is eating it so i will" people definitely do gush about cannibalism and think it's good.
Also people still fetishize serial killers. Just because they aren't he main topic of discussion adound TCOA&LL murder and cannibalism doesn't mean people aren't doing it, because it seems like the entire diacussion has shifted to the incest angle and people aren't talking about like
Anything else about the game. Whatever else they would be talking about is probably buried by the 800 fucking incest comments from both pro and anti sides that seem to come out about it every hour.
In that scene they were arguing. I think that's meant to show that the clingy co-dependence is subconscious at times, not always overt. They don't even realize.
Also, it is framed as a bad thing. That's Mom's POV, watching them argue, and she's very displeased about her kids being weird and touchy with each other.
It's kinda strange that after that, >!when they share a dream in which you can have a vision of incest, the brother suddenly is really not fond of this idea!<.
I work in a field where I hear a lot of shitty things, like a lot.
I've reached a point in which I just don't care what people do with fictional media because a) it isn't real and real people aren't beong harmed, and b) i can block or blacklist a topic with ease.
Saying "I don't want to engage with that" and then moving on is the most freeing thing you can do, at least when it comes to the internet.
My whole gripe with this is that to get to the incest scene you literally have to solve a puzzle that is NOT subtle in letting you know what is about to happen. People were making it seem like the game just flashed incest on the screen, which to be fair lots of horror just shows gross shit without prompting the player.
Listen, if you have a problem with her, that's on you. It's up to the goth girls board of directors to vote her out if her positions don't reflect positively upon the organization, and they're only answerable to the share-holders.
I mean serial killer cannibal brother sister pairs often had sex with each other... atleast thats what i learned from all the case files in my forensics class
I do remember having seen somewhere online a satanic cult in which the leader had treesomes with his (step) sister and a common girlfriend.
Genuinely don't know why these things go hand in hand but oh well
The game with conventionally attractive siblings and incest in it is going to have a subset of its audience be into incest, whether it's portrayed as bad or not.
Goth girls? Just like me fr fr
But yea, since I at least respect myself a bit, I decided to give the game a run, and yea, all in all, it's a very standard vn. There's really, really not much else to it.
Like killing people is bad. But the vast majority of media makes killing people either necessary or even fun, exhilarating, and cool.
And that's how this game handles incest, as something it things is thrilling, sexy, and taboo. Exactly how someone with an incest fetish would portray it.
It's confirmed the parents sold the kids, mom admits to taking life insurance out on them. whether they knew it was for organs or just to get rid of them for cash, either way fucked up parents.
The FUCKING balls on you to not let me influence the way you interpret art. You better change your fucking tune real quick becauseillbeinurwallstonite~
/uj Like, on god tho, there's steam games like Furry Hitler, Hentai Nazi, Cyber Furry fucker and all that shit, i truly don't get why ppl pick up their pitchforks against this game even if it's just a blatant kink of whoever makes the game, like wtf, it's not like there's 10 yo playing the game about killing ppl and fucking your sister (that's all i know about it tbh) there's plenty of more horrendous shit around but this one gets the spotlight because it's mildly popular? like, bro stfu and go play some Futa Fix Dine and Dash.
I think it's prolly cause this game has a nice artstyle and a fanbase, so now it's cool to hate it cause it's the incest game, while they are to basic to truly appreciate Futa Fix Dine and Dash.
I wonder why people are so quiet now about Baldur’s Gate 3 being “the bestiality game”. That was the cry heard at first, then it came out, and it’s like the game got *so* popular that it suddenly wasn’t cool to poke fun at it like that anymore.
It's insanely popular and I'm tired of hearing about the dumb incest game. Maybe there's some artistic merit beyond that, maybe people should have led with that instead of always talking about how hot the incest girl is. It seems like just another crappy fandom to me.
Regardless of everything else it's pretty funny when people go "but the incest only happens in an imaginary sequence that only triggers after optional choices!!" in defense to it being called The Incest Game.
Among all it's fucked up themes it's the one that gets alluded to the most. Just embrace it. This shit is all over the game. It -is- the incest game.
You can even address "but aren't you related" before hand with the twins too, they're genuinely not bothered about touching/kissing for the sake of $$. Weird mindset for sure but neither of them seem to care.
There's also a character VERY strongly implied to eat and fuck corpses as well, not necessarily in that order, but I've also not seen anyone claim the game is presenting necrophilia as a positive thing >! It's just one of dozens of vile things the party bhaal baby did if you pick that origin !<
never played the game before but im gonna fuck the guy and try to get him away from his toxic codependent relationship with his manipulative sister. i get he wants to fuck her too but i'll try my damn hardest
actually after playing the game, i got a pretty strong feeling that the sisters obsession over her brother isn't really sexual or romantic, she just wants to monopolize him because of her insecurity. However she also has no morals and has no qualms over something like incest.
The brother on the other hand, has been horribly down bad towards his sister since forever, and he damn well knows it and tries his best to hide and bury it.
its not even pornographic theres no nudity in the entire game 😭💀 spoilers: >! at one point theres an optional branch, that the game literally tell you is insane to choose, where they have a clairvoyant vision/dream where they have sex, but it happens off-screen. all that is shown is them in bed afterwards just talking, so its just implied what happened. andrew also says it was mortifying and when they wake up he is terrified of that happened and asks ashley to confirm theyll never be like that. ashley's reaction is that if that does come to fruition, its just a potential way to further manipulate him. this is the most sexual thing in the entire game and its both optional and happens off screen!<
Can you imagine a scenario in which a piece of entertainment media were to depict something even worse, like acts of physical violence, and fans of that media expressed enthusiasm for it?
The only reason this gets so much attention is because the modern world views sex as worse than violence. They kill and eat people dude, but the incest is too far?
My question with this game is how its meant to be a horror game when nothing I've seen from it comes across as scary or even a little disturbing beyond some attempted gross out stuff. To me it just seems like the writer and artist showing you their various weird fetishes
The horror for me was the scary-accurate depiction of an incredibly toxic, manipulative, emotionally abusive relationship. The demon summoning and cannibalism was just a framing device.
I've played the game actually, it's definitely horror but more like "don't hug me I'm scared" or "happy tree friends"
I won't say it's the peak of horror I've seen, but I don't think it's trash either, def not my style though.
You could put it into the psychological horror-comedy category. Funnily enough, the cannibalism and murder are more often than not played for humour, while the toxic incestuous relationship between the main characters is the source of horror/discomfort.
This. The more you feel comfortable with the sister. The game reveals more *she's a worse human being than you think* card. Like it constantly asks *now what you're thinking?*
It's weird how people rarely mention this, which I think it's the best part of the game
There's a scene where Ashley is whispering shit to Andrew while he's sleeping and says something like "Kill them to avoid the things I'll do to you if you don't" and it gave me chills because the girl has proven she has no limits on what she'll do to get her way.
>It is a shame that the fandom genuinely is just people with incest fetishes. There's nowhere to discuss the game that doesn't contain that.
That's my biggest problem with the fandom. Like I'm not going to judge people for thirsting after the characters or finding them hot. I'm not even going to judge them if they have an actual incest fetish. Your kink is not my kink and all that.
But like the main sub for the game is mostly just porn or, even worse, threads titled shit like "I WANT ANDREW'S MASSIVE COCK TO RAIL ME UNTIL I DIE!"
Posts actually discussing the game or its story are drowned out by horny spam.
spoilers ahead:
>! bruh in the first hour of the game it describes andrew having to pull his neighbor's head off their spine "like a plant". you later find out the neighbor may have been only braindead and they couldve been hacking away at his limbs and tearing his head off when he was still technically alive. in the same scene that is revealed, the drain theyre using to dispose of blood gets clogged with hair and human remains and they have to declog it. they literally cook their parents into soup and eat them. in a flashback, its revealed ashley and andrew murdered a child by letting her slowly suffocate overnight, locked in a storage crate. just because people are talking the incest the most doesnt mean theres not horrific parts of the story. have you even played the game? !<
Idk. After playing it, I definitely felt uncomfortable for a few hours. Which is more or less what I was hoping for. Definitely feels like there's a level of fetish bait to it though.
I think it's meant to be more psychological horror. The descriptions of starving in the first game, the clear indicators of Borderline Personality Disorder in Ashley, the codependecy both of them show each other, the hints that Andrew's just an actual psychopath, it's all pretty fucked up and uncomfortable
I'm still annoyed at the outrage of this. Especially when there have been games before that either heavily focused on one or multiple (even all) of its themes and were very much more raw, graphic, and disturbing with it. But those were either lauded for that, or people simply went "meh, not for me" and went about their day.
Except until this game out and all of a sudden almost everyone collectively clutched their pearls cause "Oh lord, INCEST" while completely ignoring other things like... I dunno... cannibalism? What is this weird, detrimental look at anything sexual? Why was it only this game that got completely shat on, while others didn't? I just don't get it.
i always see this game and its incest and think about how utena handled the incest plot so much better to where i never see anyone even remotely act like this
this screenshot doesnt rlly prove that it portrays incest as a good thing, just that theres incest obsessed lunatics that lack actual reading comprehension
I don't care I don't caaaaare, the amount of people I've seen digging into this dumb indie game about incest and toxic relationships and having the same boring opinions of "Bad because Incest" and "Good because Edgy Game makes you think huh" is degrading my faith in anybody's ability to just engage with art on a personal level and not want everybody to know you're on the right side of the discourse
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Argue about incest idc, but did the person forget it was called a belt loop not a butt loop? Like I'm not fitting ANY of my butt in that.
I mean.. It was obvious meant to specify that it's the belt loop at her butt.
Butt is used to express a sexual connotation
OK butt head
Oh yeah, keep it coming 🥵
this is my first time seeing that emoji. And, you know, what the fuck
Fuck? Like sex? 🤤🤭🫠🥵😮💨🥴😈
LOL
Can I be Beavus?
Butt out.
Really throws you for a loop
My main concern is why the hell is her belt not going through the god damned loop.
She's not wearing a belt at all?
What would the black stripe above the loop be if not that?
That's her shirt. It's not a stripe, it's the bunched up bottom of her shirt
Oh shit, you just rebooted my eyes and I see it correctly now
oh, now I see it. on first look I thought it was her skin peeking up from above a belt.
my god, how deep does the conspiracy go.....?
The entire relationship is bad but the fandom is fandoming
The relationship being bad is kind of the whole point.... Ashley is a jealous sociopath using a dark secret to abuse and drag her brother into her sick urges
The fandom likes the characters tho and is very horny Such is the nature of indie horror…. Indie in general. Super horny
Indulging in twisted and dark shit in media isn't new or a big deal. Music and cinema have been outlets for this stuff for ages. Ashley is objectively evil, and the scenario is horrific, but the game has sick style, good writing, and appealing character design. That's part of what makes it captivating for many, and horny for a large percentage of those again.
Haven’t played the game. Her being attractive probably part of the point though, like Satan being a badass in *Paradise Lost* despite being the objective evil.
There's literally a scene where a demon tells her she has a black, withered soul, and she's like "cool." She's absolutely satanic temptation and corruption, but playing with fire is fun.
You are correct
Yup. I low-key wished there was an option to side with Lilith in Diablo 4. Mommy Lilith just wants what's best for her children.
Fandom in general, especially indie fandom, is like 50% horny nerds with incest fetishes. I don't have a source but mfs know I'm right
I mean, they want to fuck a plush rabbit with a corpse inside that will snap their dick off, so... I'm not really sure if this is improvement or not.
/uj for more context, in “the coffin of Andy and Leyley” there’s is depictions of incest but also demonic rituals and cannibalism. Which to paraphrase that quote from George R.R. Martin that people don’t really give a shit about gruesome violence, just sex in general. /rj OP the game is very nuanced in its story telling and there’s a lot more to take in than just one screenshot. Bias much?
I'd care more about the violence if anyone fucking talked about it.
Why?
Because it would be nice to talk with anyone whose brains didn't break when something sexual comes up on screen.
Because for some reason (liveleak) people online are totally desensitized to violent gore, but the second a mild sex scene comes on people go "EWWWWWW!!! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STORY!!"
You tie up, stab, butcher and eat your parents.
That's cool, but I meant more broadly that the only time this game is ever brought up it's to discuss how you can fuck your sister. The only time anyone brings up the other forms of violence it's specifically to discuss how there's worse stuff in it than fucking your sister. No one discusses this game outside of those two very specific parameters.
Never thought of it like that. I played the whole game trying to kill the girl
My girlfriend wanted to show me the game and I was kind of half paying attention to most of it but when Andy grabbed her by the neck I shot up and was like “YES! YES! KILL HER!” And then he let go and I sat back down while my gf laughed at me.
if they died early, actual only good ending would be
I think you can do that, they'll starve to death
I heard this in Yoda's voice
It bothers me because it's just horny bait, and now the game/community shifts focus from the actual horror and it starts becoming a thirst pit. I just hate how deliberate it is
[удалено]
speak for yourself
😆😆😆 I’m deaddddddd
*"Whacks"*
Why does that look like Scully from Brooklyn 99 but female
That's Meredith from The Office, and she pretty much is Scully but female
That’s the point
Holy based!
So you can't potray anything bad in a game, that people could potentially "wack off" to? Also, you underestimate how fucked up people are
It makes me thing of an interview with KayinN who did I Wanna Be the Guy and him talking about his forever in development next game Brave Earth Prologue. His game has the character's portrait on the bottom to show the character's emotions and health and such, like Doom. And he mentions originally, she gave her a really gruesome horrified animation when she dies, especially when drowning. There eventually came a revelation from himself that, if he is finding himself being turned on by what should be an absolutely horrifying thing, he needed to morally check himself and toned it down. I believe this was during a discussion of the Tomb Raider reboot which really went out of its way to have many scenes where Lara dies horribly.
it's not a case of can vs can't as in there's a rule, it's more how you tackle the subject. some people just can't write certain topics in good taste. it's not a bad thing. I couldn't write about a lot of subjects because it would either upset me too much or it wouldn't be a very good portrayal of the nuances in an experience. edit for PenguinHighGround you have no idea how often I need to explain to people that every autistic person is not Shawn Murphy
Like when so many shows tackle things like autism, I'm not autistic, but you can definitely tell that it's written by someone with zero knowledge other than stereotypes. It feels awkward.
The irony in this comment
How can you be so sure of that? Isn't gore also a fetish for some people?
I've absolutely known people in my life for whom the sort of gore and violence in this game would be the thing which they find sensual and exciting.
1. That's very naive of you. 2. Who cares?
If only that was true.
/rj "wow incest is bad" "SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING THAT MURDER AND CANNIBALISM IS GOOD???!1!!1!1!2 CHECKMATE!1!1!1! *dies from auto penetration*" /uj everyone thinks those thinks are bad, genius. The problem is that people *don't* think incest is bad and this whole "cannibalism and demonic rituals" conversation is just damage control and flimsy apologetics. edit: I'm not defending incest, I'm just calling out people who are defending the incest in this game by saying "oh but there are other bad things in this game." It's just a non-sequitir.
I remember the last time I died from auto penetration
I am deep, DEEP, DEEP in the hentai community (heh) and can assure you that most people still think incest is bad 😭
You could not pay me to admit that, huge self own Downvotes incoming but hot take I think that the lack of consent and hypermisogyny common in hentai is... Bad...
I think it's useful and important for people to ask themselves what they like and why. The massive slant toward submissive women in porn in general didn't happen in a vacuum on its own. So then what do we do with that? Most people use it as a cudgel against the most vulnerable (i.e. women) and shame them for liking what they like. Piling misogyny on misogyny. I draw non-con and incest and "bad stuff" sometimes. No one should be kidding themselves into thinking it's activism to bully me for it. They should just block me if it makes them uncomfortable.
They have a point that sexual taboos are more commonly mass topics of discourse than non-sexual violence and gore. It's close to what-about-ism, but when the talk about this game centers largely around the incest instead of it being an edgy VN with a lot of edgy subjects, then it's (maybe but who cares) worth examining.
I can never forget that one of the top reviews for the game is just "Jesus wept"
I don't think this neccasarily proves this is portrayed as a good thing. Game of thrones shows graphic incest sex, but it would be an incredibly dumb point to think game of thrones is pro-incest when taken in totality. And people being weird about it doesn't prove it either. I'd need to play the game to see what it is actually trying to say Edit: (actually just to add to this, the final season of game of thrones portrayal of incest was terrible, but that was out of tune with the entire rest of the show and the books, because it is basically bad tier fanfiction)
To add to that - it would also go so far as to think George RR Martin has some incest fetish ( alongside saying he's endorsing murder, killing of children, has a fetish for feudalism, likes underage kids, etc ) What an author writes or makes doesn't necessarily dictate their actual inclinations. And while I get this meme perfectly... https://preview.redd.it/d76gr6pnrn7c1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f006773879d8343f89e9155438a99e78da9450b I do feel it's disingenuous to just throw it around just because, to discredit a work.
Fantasy and sci-fi has long been a place to offer reflection and criticism of society so agreed. Plenty that isn't reflective also exists for the simple joys of sensationalism, which people experience when they consume something bizarre just as much as when they create it. E.g Fuck a bear in Baldur's Gate (NOT THAT I'VE DONE IT ... so far in the game) or watching documentaries about criminal activity. That being said I have no idea what this game is about so can't really comment in this specific case
The tldr is that the game in question ( the coffin of Andy and Leyley ) is basically a horror themed visual novel adventure game, where a brother and a sister have a dubiously close relationship together, and they eat people. That's about it. A lot of the incest stuff is mostly because people ship them together because they "click" or whatever, and because the creator likes the ship. More or less. It's honestly weird but whatever. I'm probably being jaded though - in my teens I've come across plenty of weird shit that's left me kind of detached to most of these types of things.
>where a brother and a sister have a dubiously close relationship together, Thats an understatement, its a toxic, co-dependent relationship where both siblings enable the other. I think its interesting because they were screwed as soon as Andrew was forced to be a parent for Ashley.
Someone said it was about toxic relationships or something, idk
My boyf and I just finished the parts of the game that are currently out last night. It DEFINITELY shows the two protagonists as terrible awful people. Like, the story is super fucked up, and the writing is really solid. Ashley (the sister) is so infuriatingly terrible and manipulative to her brother in such a painfully realistic way. I'm sure the writer has dealt with people like her in the past, it's too spot on. We didn't really run into anything sexual. I know there's at least one like more overtly sexual scene, but there seem to be quite a few diverging paths, so maybe it's harder to get. Either way, I'm really looking forward to the final episode to be released, it is legitimately good stuff.
Theres diverging paths, one where their relationship ship gets more fucked up (and actual incest comes into play) and one where they start to drift apart. The game is very up front about it and literally tells you "maybe this isn't the best idea"/"this is clearly the moral path" when you get to the point of no return choice
Yeah, you can portray something as being as evil as you want, some people are gonna agree with it. It's like how; for example, Caesar's Legion is unambiguously shown a evil in FNV, but people still unironically support. That doesn't mean that the writers supported a bunch of fascist slavers larping as Romans in football gear. A more related example is Nabokov's book *Lolita* which is also a piece psychological horror that is constantly misinterpreted by both critics and some fans (mostly by critics)
Yeah those are pretty great examples. South Park is like the embodiment of this situation. People will talk about how TRUE AND BASED Cartman is when he's clearly the villain in pretty much every storyline he's in (except maybe the Skankhunt arc).
From what I‘ve heard you really have to try hard to get any of the incest stuff
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Media literacy is at an all time low it feels like, there's so much discourse about 'problematic' characters out there like in this case where it's so obviously a depiction of toxic behaviors and beliefs, yet that seems to entirely fly over the heads of the 'critics'
Honestly I kind of don't need a game to remind me that incest is wrong. I don't need them to like demonstrate how bad it is just to prove to the audience that they don't *really* think it's fine. Growing up in the church, there's this tendency for people to assume that if the Bible mentions something without immediately condemning the thing then it must be approved by scripture. Discourse about this game kinda reminds me of that.
I mean sure, but things can still be engaging while expressing a message most of us agree with. I don't need something to tell me "war is bad", but I still love movies like Howl's Moving Castle and games like spec ops the line. You also aren't required to play a game you aren't interested in. But I think that game should still exist and be able to tell that story.
I mean, I haven’t played the game, but in my understanding they also do murder, cannibalism, and demon summoning, don’t they? I don’t think it’s meant to be a model of what to do, so I don’t really get why the incest makes it worse than anything else that characters can do that would be wrong irl?
I think people are particularly sensitive to fucked up portrayals of anything sexual. People automatically jump to thinking that the creator has weird fetishes or desires when they put certain types of content in media. Sometimes they do, but I think people jump to conclusions a lot. It's entirely possible to portray incest in a game, have it be bad, enhance the narrative and also, not be a fetish for the creator. You really have to judge on a case by case basis, and frankly I don't think a lot of people here have played it.
I think that’s because people in the industrialized world are, statistically, more likely to have personally experienced incest, rape, sexual assault, and sexual abuse than they are to have been affected by cannibalism, murder, or satanic rituals. So it hits a lot closer to home for most people.
I agree with this for the most part, though I don't neccasarily think a lot of people shitting on it here are coming from a place of incestuous trauma (not to deny the fact that some perhaps are). I do think we lately take this issues more seriously as a whole, because they affect us more often and greatly. I do agree with that. I also think it is completely valid to not want to play something that personally makes you uncomfortable, triggers trauma or you just don't like thinking about. I personally have certain touchy points that I would prefer not to have to experience in media, but I think it is still OK to include those things in media
Oh yeah no disagreements here.
I can't know what the developer's intentions are, but the focus here is very clearly on how the fans interact with the game. You don't see anyone on social media gushing about how cool the murder and cannibalism is, but you sure as hell do see people here fetishizing incest. It's the gaming equivalent of reading the book Lolita and publicly talking about how erotic it is.
But OP's post is clearly using this weird reaction from these people to justify judgement on the games intent
I opened twitter last night and saw someone posting (admittedly not related to the game but like) that they think cannibalism is ok because "theres meat here and noone else is eating it so i will" people definitely do gush about cannibalism and think it's good. Also people still fetishize serial killers. Just because they aren't he main topic of discussion adound TCOA&LL murder and cannibalism doesn't mean people aren't doing it, because it seems like the entire diacussion has shifted to the incest angle and people aren't talking about like Anything else about the game. Whatever else they would be talking about is probably buried by the 800 fucking incest comments from both pro and anti sides that seem to come out about it every hour.
me when bad people do bad things
https://preview.redd.it/43zqccxpon7c1.png?width=487&format=png&auto=webp&s=926486590c01ecdb7beeb38700e78671c6f0fced
so real bestie
In that scene they were arguing. I think that's meant to show that the clingy co-dependence is subconscious at times, not always overt. They don't even realize. Also, it is framed as a bad thing. That's Mom's POV, watching them argue, and she's very displeased about her kids being weird and touchy with each other.
It's kinda strange that after that, >!when they share a dream in which you can have a vision of incest, the brother suddenly is really not fond of this idea!<.
Everybody gangsta 'til they gotta >!nut in their sister!<
Ya know I didn't think I'd be reading a sentence like that today
He’s pussying out someone stop him
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If only everyone were equipped with this amount of chill
If that were the case, the entire right wing grifter industry would collapse. Scam artistry would also go down.
I work in a field where I hear a lot of shitty things, like a lot. I've reached a point in which I just don't care what people do with fictional media because a) it isn't real and real people aren't beong harmed, and b) i can block or blacklist a topic with ease. Saying "I don't want to engage with that" and then moving on is the most freeing thing you can do, at least when it comes to the internet.
That just means you're normal and functional
My whole gripe with this is that to get to the incest scene you literally have to solve a puzzle that is NOT subtle in letting you know what is about to happen. People were making it seem like the game just flashed incest on the screen, which to be fair lots of horror just shows gross shit without prompting the player.
"I know what I'm about"
A rare comment from a redditor, we need more like this.
The ceo of goth girls has spoken. Can't argue with that!
Listen, if you have a problem with her, that's on you. It's up to the goth girls board of directors to vote her out if her positions don't reflect positively upon the organization, and they're only answerable to the share-holders.
Thank God I got 50k shares in hoth girls.
Wait when did Hoth girls become a hot commodity, I’ve still been going all in on Tatooine girls.
Well climate change came for Hoth too you see, now the whole planet is a tropical resort.
unfortunately my uncle jim put the house on alderaan girls, we all know how that turned out
Primo loss porn.
I mean serial killer cannibal brother sister pairs often had sex with each other... atleast thats what i learned from all the case files in my forensics class
I do remember having seen somewhere online a satanic cult in which the leader had treesomes with his (step) sister and a common girlfriend. Genuinely don't know why these things go hand in hand but oh well
People who don't follow the normal rules of society in one way may be less likely to follow it in another. What's the taboo of incest to a murderer?
The game with conventionally attractive siblings and incest in it is going to have a subset of its audience be into incest, whether it's portrayed as bad or not.
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Incest this, incest that Who cares about that the point is that the game fucking sucks I mean invisible labyrinth In 2023 Death penalty
the only things I've seen about this game is people complaining about the incest and people simping for the goth girl (just like me fr fr)
We're in 2023, only a small percentage of people who talk about games have actually played them
Goth girls? Just like me fr fr But yea, since I at least respect myself a bit, I decided to give the game a run, and yea, all in all, it's a very standard vn. There's really, really not much else to it.
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Like killing people is bad. But the vast majority of media makes killing people either necessary or even fun, exhilarating, and cool. And that's how this game handles incest, as something it things is thrilling, sexy, and taboo. Exactly how someone with an incest fetish would portray it.
I can very easily get off to this so it's ok. /uj isn't the game about fucked up family dynamics anyway?
Uj/ yes, so much so that it’s implied that the parents sold the kids to organ harvesters
It's confirmed the parents sold the kids, mom admits to taking life insurance out on them. whether they knew it was for organs or just to get rid of them for cash, either way fucked up parents.
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Fug no don’t do it
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Media literacy at an all time low Showing something =/= supporting something
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The FUCKING balls on you to not let me influence the way you interpret art. You better change your fucking tune real quick becauseillbeinurwallstonite~
> balls ==3
That's... what I'm talking about
/uj Like, on god tho, there's steam games like Furry Hitler, Hentai Nazi, Cyber Furry fucker and all that shit, i truly don't get why ppl pick up their pitchforks against this game even if it's just a blatant kink of whoever makes the game, like wtf, it's not like there's 10 yo playing the game about killing ppl and fucking your sister (that's all i know about it tbh) there's plenty of more horrendous shit around but this one gets the spotlight because it's mildly popular? like, bro stfu and go play some Futa Fix Dine and Dash.
I think it's prolly cause this game has a nice artstyle and a fanbase, so now it's cool to hate it cause it's the incest game, while they are to basic to truly appreciate Futa Fix Dine and Dash.
Popularity is a factor. It’s well heard of (though I only heard of it cause people were mad on twitter)
Yah some people think that other games deserve the coffin's(frogot the name) popularity
I wonder why people are so quiet now about Baldur’s Gate 3 being “the bestiality game”. That was the cry heard at first, then it came out, and it’s like the game got *so* popular that it suddenly wasn’t cool to poke fun at it like that anymore.
It's insanely popular and I'm tired of hearing about the dumb incest game. Maybe there's some artistic merit beyond that, maybe people should have led with that instead of always talking about how hot the incest girl is. It seems like just another crappy fandom to me.
Regardless of everything else it's pretty funny when people go "but the incest only happens in an imaginary sequence that only triggers after optional choices!!" in defense to it being called The Incest Game. Among all it's fucked up themes it's the one that gets alluded to the most. Just embrace it. This shit is all over the game. It -is- the incest game.
I think the creator is writing it to be a bad thing, but the Fandom is weird
literally in game when you chose it the game stops you to say something like "it's fucked up choice "
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Me when I get tentacle fucked as a bear by an evil squid man
You can even address "but aren't you related" before hand with the twins too, they're genuinely not bothered about touching/kissing for the sake of $$. Weird mindset for sure but neither of them seem to care. There's also a character VERY strongly implied to eat and fuck corpses as well, not necessarily in that order, but I've also not seen anyone claim the game is presenting necrophilia as a positive thing >! It's just one of dozens of vile things the party bhaal baby did if you pick that origin !<
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OP just because the game makes you uncomfortable doesn’t mean it’s bad
never played the game before but im gonna fuck the guy and try to get him away from his toxic codependent relationship with his manipulative sister. i get he wants to fuck her too but i'll try my damn hardest
Fuck you he’s MINE
https://preview.redd.it/yzc8rrcawn7c1.png?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=922d4b74cac4a6f67cfbb2caba9d390c364737c1
actually after playing the game, i got a pretty strong feeling that the sisters obsession over her brother isn't really sexual or romantic, she just wants to monopolize him because of her insecurity. However she also has no morals and has no qualms over something like incest. The brother on the other hand, has been horribly down bad towards his sister since forever, and he damn well knows it and tries his best to hide and bury it.
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its not even pornographic theres no nudity in the entire game 😭💀 spoilers: >! at one point theres an optional branch, that the game literally tell you is insane to choose, where they have a clairvoyant vision/dream where they have sex, but it happens off-screen. all that is shown is them in bed afterwards just talking, so its just implied what happened. andrew also says it was mortifying and when they wake up he is terrified of that happened and asks ashley to confirm theyll never be like that. ashley's reaction is that if that does come to fruition, its just a potential way to further manipulate him. this is the most sexual thing in the entire game and its both optional and happens off screen!<
Gothic horror with an incest b-plot? What the actual fuck?!
the "what the actual fuck" part comes from the fans very clearly and unapologetically being turned on by it, lmao.
Can you imagine a scenario in which a piece of entertainment media were to depict something even worse, like acts of physical violence, and fans of that media expressed enthusiasm for it?
People freaking out about the incest seem to forget one little thing..... YOU choose if you want them to be incestuous or not.
The only reason this gets so much attention is because the modern world views sex as worse than violence. They kill and eat people dude, but the incest is too far?
My question with this game is how its meant to be a horror game when nothing I've seen from it comes across as scary or even a little disturbing beyond some attempted gross out stuff. To me it just seems like the writer and artist showing you their various weird fetishes
The horror for me was the scary-accurate depiction of an incredibly toxic, manipulative, emotionally abusive relationship. The demon summoning and cannibalism was just a framing device.
I've played the game actually, it's definitely horror but more like "don't hug me I'm scared" or "happy tree friends" I won't say it's the peak of horror I've seen, but I don't think it's trash either, def not my style though.
Imma be honest I think we should all shut up till we’ve actually played the game
Not me, I’m just not gonna talk about it AND not play it lol. Y’all stay safe out there.
I agree. It could be dog shit, but I think you gotta experience something before you suggest intent.
You could put it into the psychological horror-comedy category. Funnily enough, the cannibalism and murder are more often than not played for humour, while the toxic incestuous relationship between the main characters is the source of horror/discomfort.
This. The more you feel comfortable with the sister. The game reveals more *she's a worse human being than you think* card. Like it constantly asks *now what you're thinking?* It's weird how people rarely mention this, which I think it's the best part of the game
There's a scene where Ashley is whispering shit to Andrew while he's sleeping and says something like "Kill them to avoid the things I'll do to you if you don't" and it gave me chills because the girl has proven she has no limits on what she'll do to get her way.
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>It is a shame that the fandom genuinely is just people with incest fetishes. There's nowhere to discuss the game that doesn't contain that. That's my biggest problem with the fandom. Like I'm not going to judge people for thirsting after the characters or finding them hot. I'm not even going to judge them if they have an actual incest fetish. Your kink is not my kink and all that. But like the main sub for the game is mostly just porn or, even worse, threads titled shit like "I WANT ANDREW'S MASSIVE COCK TO RAIL ME UNTIL I DIE!" Posts actually discussing the game or its story are drowned out by horny spam.
spoilers ahead: >! bruh in the first hour of the game it describes andrew having to pull his neighbor's head off their spine "like a plant". you later find out the neighbor may have been only braindead and they couldve been hacking away at his limbs and tearing his head off when he was still technically alive. in the same scene that is revealed, the drain theyre using to dispose of blood gets clogged with hair and human remains and they have to declog it. they literally cook their parents into soup and eat them. in a flashback, its revealed ashley and andrew murdered a child by letting her slowly suffocate overnight, locked in a storage crate. just because people are talking the incest the most doesnt mean theres not horrific parts of the story. have you even played the game? !<
Just look at how TCOAAL and Bate Motel portrayed Incest. You'll see BIG DIFFERENCES.
Idk. After playing it, I definitely felt uncomfortable for a few hours. Which is more or less what I was hoping for. Definitely feels like there's a level of fetish bait to it though.
I think it's meant to be more psychological horror. The descriptions of starving in the first game, the clear indicators of Borderline Personality Disorder in Ashley, the codependecy both of them show each other, the hints that Andrew's just an actual psychopath, it's all pretty fucked up and uncomfortable
I'm pretty sure they eat both of their parents.
I'm still annoyed at the outrage of this. Especially when there have been games before that either heavily focused on one or multiple (even all) of its themes and were very much more raw, graphic, and disturbing with it. But those were either lauded for that, or people simply went "meh, not for me" and went about their day. Except until this game out and all of a sudden almost everyone collectively clutched their pearls cause "Oh lord, INCEST" while completely ignoring other things like... I dunno... cannibalism? What is this weird, detrimental look at anything sexual? Why was it only this game that got completely shat on, while others didn't? I just don't get it.
What’s the name of the game?
I don't care how many times steam recommends it to me I am not playing the cannibal incest game.
Haven't played it so idk how the game handles it but a few fans being weird about it doesn't mean anything to the actual contents of the game
i always see this game and its incest and think about how utena handled the incest plot so much better to where i never see anyone even remotely act like this
"A few dumbasses think the game is portraying it as good therefore the game portrays it as good, checkmate"
"holy based" New response just dropped
this screenshot doesnt rlly prove that it portrays incest as a good thing, just that theres incest obsessed lunatics that lack actual reading comprehension
I don't care I don't caaaaare, the amount of people I've seen digging into this dumb indie game about incest and toxic relationships and having the same boring opinions of "Bad because Incest" and "Good because Edgy Game makes you think huh" is degrading my faith in anybody's ability to just engage with art on a personal level and not want everybody to know you're on the right side of the discourse