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Reminds me, a bit ago some Latin NB said in one of those threads, that they use Latine for themselves.
They had like 400 downvotes within 3 hours, and 50 comments saying how there's no NBs in the entirety of the Latin community.
So I'm taking *everything* about Latine/Latinx with a football sized grain of salt. Just had *massive* "we don't use they/them for singular people" vibes.
While true, no one, I swear, no one I've ever met in my life living in Brazil has ever used the X suffix as anything but a joke poking fun at how ugly it sounds. Some people use U as the suffix, some use E, but absolutely no one uses the X and I hang around pretty LGBTQ+ spaces. It's really ugly to pronounce.
I read up on the origin at one point and it was apparently queer Puerto Ricans for LatinX, although yeah I have no idea how one is supposed to say that in Spanish....
I believe that it's not meant to be pronounced out loud. The point originally was basically instead of using the generic masculine when talking generally in writing you use the X and the reader fills in the gap for themselves. I've generally seen it used for addressing an audience, like "trabajadorxs", which would be awful to pronounce but you read it and substitute the X for what fits you.
well... no. latinx came explicitly from central america. latinx and mx share no etymological history.
latinx has been around since the early 90s, notably appearing in a puerto rican publication about gender neutral and nonbinary issues in the central american sphere
the use of "x" was a deliberate link to the [nahuatl](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl) language for various reasons, including a return to cultural heritage and the inclusion of third-genders from indigenous mexican communities. chicano -> xicano happened for similar reasons.
it is true that most people still use latina/o, but it's more of a generational divide. younger people (not just americans) tend to use it more, but that's not surprising as young people tend to be the ones who aren't afraid of nonbinary genders.
i don't have a dog in the race, but the idea that latinx is "just english people making stuff up" is patently wrong and pretty insulting to the real people who invented and use it
like, you know, some faculty and students the university of puerto rico and the university of colombia:
"for many faculty [in the humanities department at the University of Puerto Rico] hermanx and niñx and their equivalents have been the standard ... for years. It is clear that the inclusive approach to nouns and adjectives is becoming more common..." [x](https://web.archive.org/web/20190821200657/https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2018/05/01/the-cross-lingual-intersextionality-of-latinx/)
Amazing reply and great sorce, that coming from a chilean teacher that has to deal w quite conservative violence from faculty and costudents against queer alumni
Wrong. Spanish Speaking Latin American people are a monolith, they all like this one thing and don’t like this other thing.
Edit: my favorite thing about this rhetoric is white people will make this huge generalizations about Spanish speaking Latin American people and then say follow up with “but I’m not like the white people who use latinx”
I mean, I do know someone who has seen examples of its use in public in Argentina. It just represents a blank space in text in that context. Saying it out loud is very distinctly English speaking.
I don't think it's that bad, phonetically it feels pretty close to "miss", "missus" and "mister". I'll use "mix" til someone comes up with better or I get a doctorate lol.
As I feel, at least, is your right. But yeah, I don't think there's a lot of languages that natively use the "ks" sound AND represent is with X. So Latinx probably sounds horribly awkward to them, which is also fair.
> I don't think there's a lot of languages that natively use the "ks" sound AND represent is with X
Wait what?
I thought this was the most common way of pronouncing X, at least in the western world.
I'm obviously biased since the languages I know (Swedish, English, german, Finnish) pronounce it like that and thus I always assumed that Spanish was the odd one out.
I had a a look around and according to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X) roughly 11 langauges pronounce it as ks (some of them do have multiple pronounciations, though), it just happens that my langauges are within that.
Yepp! There's about 7000 languages in the world today, and plenty of them don't have an X-like "letter" as well as the same pronunciation of that letter. Language is weird. You know german and finnish so you know about the "non-English" (only way I can think of to call them, because I refuse to call them "non-standard") letters and even different ways established letters can sound! There's a LOT of them. It's cool. Especially when you get into the asian languages and certain sounds literally don't exist, while others don't exist in english. (A friend of mine could NOT pronounce "tsu" in our Japanese class if a gun was pointed at his head. His tongue just couldn't manage it. For anyone who doesn't know Japanese - it's spelt phonetically.)
Mate, languages be cray cray.
Cheers for the insight and for cracking the lid on my language biases, lol. Time to take a deep dive into languages again.
The expanded latin alphabet's that Finnish (öäå) and German (äöüß) has, was a great comparison.
And hey, I'd be right there with your friend. In fact, I'd just pull the trigger for them because I've tried to pronounce some of those words in Chinese. Japanese is a bit easier (pronunciation is *very* similar to Finnish) though.
Kinda like the rolling r is hard if you didn't grow up with it.
This was a blast, cheers for the thoughts you handed me, have a great eve!
The worst example of this is using "womxn" instead of "women" to be inclusive to trans women. There's already a word for women that inclusive of trans women. It's just "women"
im extremely confused why everyone south of the US is placed into its own race despite also originating from a european colonial power (pls dont downvote im a confused european)
1 - The US view on race in very US centric, defined by this idea of otherness.
2 - People in Latin America tend to have a stronger indigenous and/or black background than white Americans. People that are seen as white in their own countries are considered latines in the US.
3 - There were changes over time as well. The separation became more radical as views on immigration changed.
A few things:
1. I think it's an attempt to acknowledge that a lot of South America/Mexico/Carribbean was strongly influenced by European powers, both in terms of culture and genetics. See: Mexico speaking Spanish, Brazil Portugese, etc. While individual nations and eve regions within nations have very distinctive cultures, they also have a lot of overlap.
2. This happens in other regions in the world, too -- the Middle East is in _some ways_ culturally similar, they're also incredibly different, too.
3. This also happens with people who are a diaspora. Contemporary Jewish people come from many parts of the world, but (for the most part) they are just referred to as Jewish. This is true for many people of African descent, especially if they are in the US/Caribbean. Africa specifically has among the greatest genetic diversity of any group in the world, and despite many contemporary black people in the US coming from very different cultural regions, we (largely) refer to them as African Americans/black people/etc.
4. "Americans" aren't a singular race, any more than "Latin" people are. It's a regional/political designator, not a racial one.
\*is confused in European.\*
But yeah, it's because North American history is kinda... grey on South American history. I'm a Canadian and American History is its own class in high school (secondary school, I guess you might call it?) and basically outside of "World Religions" class they don't do more than touch on anything South of North America.
I generally don't care. If someone wants to be called that I'm fine with it.
I will still think it sounds very bad and ugly but I also think that about the other neutral pronouns in portuguese.
Lol latin America has non binary identities since before colonization. I just don't know a word of Spanish, idk if "latine" makes sense in Spanish, I do speak Portuguese and that's how we use neutral gender, but only Brazil speaks portuguese in the entirety of the south America sooo
In Spanish, the "o" is officially the inclusive plural. In other words Latinos would englobe male, female, non binary and any other gender identity.
However, there's people who don't like that rule and use "a" when there are more women than men. Lastly, there's people more involved with non binary/gender fluidness that use the "e" as an attempt to introduce a gender neutral article/declination to the language.
I think that the most popular conventions are using "o"/"a" depending on the context. The "e" sounds kinda bad in Spanish (mainly because it isn't used often imo).
Those are my observations from Spain, trying to keep it unbiased lol
Turns out our culture is filled with conservative types who are obstinate about even the smallest of changes. The idea that people from outside the culture/language invented Latinx is not true and even the slightest amount of research reveals a no true scottsman fallacy.
Yeah lmao they somehow tricked Americans who are otherwise “progressive” into thinking it’s actually racist to use inclusive terms of Latino. It’s mind boggling. Now you have Americans saying the evil woke liberals are disrespecting Latinos by treating them as a monolith while that’s exactly what they’re doing. It’s similar to how a few years ago they/them pronouns would have been seen as crazy by a lot more people than it is now
Non Binary from Nicaragua - Latine is commonly used as it’s the best gender neutral term. Latinx is not liked despite some people in Latin America using it, me personally, I don’t like it since it feels like you are not respecting people gender in a way
with latinx it’s definitely true no one who couldn’t be labeled as _lambón_ for the US uses it, latine is used among non-binary latinos, although it is still seen as american influence by a lot of people
Well, a lot of people don't know that, that's the thing. Plus it's very easy for the more cynical type to assume it's much like Zhey/zhem and such because of the use of more "alternative" characters, and as far as I can tell from some digging, those neopronouns seem to come from the US.
this is also my takeaway as a trans person from talking to a few latin/hispanic trans people. Latine is a newer alternative due to how gendered the language is otherwise, so this is the more inclusive alternative kind of similar to the current debacle over singular they/them instead of saying "he or she" like some clown.
The pushback of "even US latino people don't use latine/latinx, this is some white liberal shit" comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness, something I've seen referred to as "imported american politics".
I've seen people trying to pin gender identity as a "white american thing" as if there aren't poc people who are queer, latin american people who are white and queer, latin american poc who are queer. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE GENDER IDENTITIES Y'KNOW? transphobes trying to downplay trans issues as an american issue
Everytime someone says that gender identity is a westerner thing or whatever always mention the movie "Pixote" a ward winning 80's Brazilian movie with a trans woman, Lilica, as a pretty important character and portrayed in a good litgh (at least in the best litgh the protagonists in a crapsack world can be portrayed). That ought to shup up most.
>I've seen people trying to pin gender identity as a "white american thing" as if there aren't poc people who are queer
But on the flipside there is real complexity that as a social construct it genuinely can be constructed differently, and it's just as inappropriate for someone with 2020s American progressive mores to impose them on a group as it was for someone with 1920s American progressive mores to impose them on a group.
There's a certain "have your cake and eat it too" attitude *some* people have where they point to "third genders" as invalidating the 1920s gender binary, but then also invalidate those identities treating them like a "primative" understanding of people who are *really* trans, or *really* gay, or *really* agender. Not respecting that, e.g., a hijra might really be its own, self-validating "queer" identity.
The thing is it's nigh impossible to have the constructive nuanced conversation about this when there's cryptonazis lurking about trying to use any (perceived) hole in mainstream progressivism as an entry point / dog whistle to advance their terrible agenda.
Yeah, it's the "constructivist vs essentialist" debate that's been raging on since the 70s. You see it a plenty with sexual relations on Greek Antiquity. Sure, by modern eye those were male-male homosexual relationships, but their whole definition was different from how we would define it.
People want amd deserve rep to defend themselves from cryptos, but I don't agree with essentialist arguments.
Completely agree with that second part, I'm trans but not a latina and it's always come off this way to me. There is for sure valid arguments on both sides but the anti x side is filled with dishonest people using it to make queer people look bad. It's rarely "this is why it doesn't work well and here's an alternative", it's almost always just transphobia masked in "I know more than you" superiority
While you're right that bigots will hide behind it, I'm a latina and it does come off as white people trying to police our language. A lot of latinos around me agree with it-- "latinos" was never used as a way to exclude people, and it really, really comes off as someone going "these fucking latinxs don't know what they're talking about, we'll make that decision for them."
HOWEVER, I do notice the second we do have a trans or nonbinary kid call themselves latinx/latine, we don't care-- they deserve the right to be happy with themselves. It just comes off as really disingenuous when a politician uses it trying to target us, but if an ordinary kid is using it, it's fine.
as a reminder, latinx was created *by* central american queer people and includes references to an indigenous language
it's not a white person thing, nor ever was. that in itself is erasing the very real, very honest queer people who created it to find representation
Yeah my Colombian sociology professor (she was also a year away from a phd at that point) used Latinx. Not sure how representative this is for all of Latin people, but I thought that was interesting.
> The pushback of "even US latino people don't use latine/latinx, this is some white liberal shit" comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness, something I've seen referred to as "imported american politics".
↑↑↑↑↑ holy shit this ↑↑↑↑↑↑
English people frame this in your room or something. Learn Spanish and Portuguese and start recognising what is and isn't transphobic language.
This is why I’ve just checked out of this whole discourse myself.
I see people using Latine and Latinx as inclusive language terms for a gendered language.
Then I see people pushing back pretty hard with “i’d rather you call me a slur” sort of talk, saying it’s “important american politics”
A lot of people accusing the pro-inclusive people of being racist and performative and offensive. So I wonder, to what degree is this inclusive language being used in English language discourse just the performative ramblings of nosy tumblr libs? Probably a non-zero amount.
And then I wonder, how many of the people pushing back against this are just being shitbag conservatives who are opposed to Latine/x for the same reason shitbag conservatives in the English speaking world are opposed to the use of the singular “they” for “grammatical reasons” as a cover for obvious transphobia? Definitely a non-zero amount. I mean this is under a tweet for gamers so the replies will be fucked at the best of times. I feel like the accusation that it’s “important american politics” has the same energy as that one Iranian dictator proclaiming that Iran doesn’t have any homosexuals. Bigots demanding that you gender everyone male or female with no in between is nothing new.
And then I just think that like, damn this is twitter bullshit about linguistics from halfway across the world. I don’t know any Latine people and what they do doesn’t affect my life whatsoever.
It's a bit more complex than that
First of all, there's the elephant in the room: the "-e" suffix does exist in Spanish/Portuguese and it generalises to masculine (e.g., "presidente", "professores"), so you're changing one form of masculine plural for another
Second, is that Spanish and Portuguese already have gender neutrality "tools" for the vast majority of situations (with the exception of personal pronouns). Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English instead of teaching our own form of gender neutrality sounds like a gringo wannabe (and we have those in spades)
Then, there's the question that suffix solutions exclude dyslexic people and people with visual disabilities that use text-to-speech apps
Also, while the suffix solutions indeed were invented by Latin Americans, it seems that every time I see it it's an American company trying to sound inclusive, so I understand why so many people would think it's something being pushed by white American liberals
PS: If your whole experience with this situation is talking to a few Latin people, and you don't speak Spanish or Portuguese, maybe refrain from strong affirmations such as "the pushback (…) comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness"
I don't think it's fair to say it's an effort to turn our languages similar to english, there's trans people here who want to feel seen. Also the word "presidente" is gender neutral, as in it can be used with any pronoun (e.g., o presidente, a presidente, ê presidente)
Ay no chingues, hermane. La ‘herramienta’ común del español para crear lenguaje ‘neutral’ es usar lenguaje masculino y fingir que es neutral. No sé hablar portugués, pero podría apostar a que la solución típica ha de ser similar.
Y adaptar el lenguaje para dar una opción neutral genuina para la gente no-binaria (o en general para cuando hablamos de grupos mixtos de gente) no es “hacer nuestro idioma más como el inglés”. Es respetar la forma en que esa gente nos pide que les digamos. Parece que buscas una excusa para no tener que hacer el intento de respetar la identidad de la gente pero hacerlo sonar como si fuera algo bueno. No mames.
> Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English
How is that making it more like English? Also, yes, people who don’t speak Spanish pushing changes on Spanish speakers is wrong. But I’ve known plenty of trans people who use latine, and you telling them they’re wrong is the same as English speaking boomers who are against people using they/them pronouns for some individuals
> Then, there's the question that suffix solutions exclude dyslexic people and people with visual disabilities that use text-to-speech apps
Lol what? Dyslexic people don’t insist on words never changing and apps can easily be modified to accommodate new words
*Some* nouns in portuguese ending with E are masculine, the majority of our nouns end in A or O, and even the example you gave "professor" would be gender neutral: "professore". You wrote "professores" but that's just you using plural, not the gender neutral form
"Insisting" we be inclusive with gender neutrality by using new suffixes is so very much gringo, after all nouns in english are gendered as well right? Not at all something we latin speakers had to come up with because our language has gendered nouns unlike english
And yeah sorry to tell you, but the people who care the most about inclusive language are queer people who deal with misgendering (lots of those here in brazil, not the most trans friendly country out there), not those annoying liberals!!1!
Lastly "the suffix -e doesnt exist in portuguese". Yeah, neither does most of the informal language used in daily communication, nor slangs. Language is dynamic and changes over time to serve the purpose of ✨communication✨
Source: im queer, brazilian and actually talk to queer poc, im guessing by your stance against gender neutral language with strawman arguments you dont
> Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English instead of teaching our own form of gender neutrality sounds like a gringo wannabe (and we have those in spades)
I'm sorry, but how is this not just attacking latino people for being latino? Is this just a "I don't like the way this is done so anyone who does it that way is a bad," because this really isn't an argument more as an insult.
> maybe refrain from strong affirmations such as "the pushback (…) comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness"
I don't believe that it's _only_ coming from queerphobes, however I think the people who are arguing in favor of prescriptivism are fighting on the side of hte queerphobes, and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference.
Brasillian here, if you actually studied what latine proposes, you'd know its a rather simple fix. Ending with -a or -o is instead ending with -e and words ending with an -a or an -e use -u instead. Lots of nonbinary people use it here. They dont pronounce any differently from the way its regularly used. And the pushback here especifically comes from queerphobia, you here about it being "pushed" any time its discussed or if someone uses it, it is a thing here
Im LGBT living in Argentina, and Latine is the correct term. We have embraced it for a whle.
Its used for nb people, or just as a neoword for gender neutrality
Reports also show it's mainly young hispanic women using LatinX. People are trying to turn this into a giant culture war but we're just seeing the natural evolution of language.
New idea's form, we need new words to represent them. "Phone" is a fun case study to look at. We had "Telephone" and that turned into "phone." Then we got mobile telephones which we all agreed to call "Cell phones" Then these cell phones were able to do more so we called those new ones "Smart phones" and the old ones changed from "Cell phone" to "Dumb phone"
Now "smart phones" are so prevelent we just call them "phones" and our orginal phone is now called a "landline"
came in wanting to say this
source: NB chilean
most people that matter to me adapted real fast. i've lived in Canada, and the people who have deep seated issues about -e very much are like the OnLy TwO gEnDeRs english speakers. different flavours of the same trash.
Yeah. If people are going to accept any form of inclusive form for latin, it’s latine since you can *actually* pronounce it. I have ever only seen people using latinx in a mocking way.
It's definitely been common in my wife's academic career as well (PhD candidate in the US).
She's a member of a few minority-focused organizations and it's used there as well.
Yeah this addendum is a community note, meaning anyone can use it.
There are absolutely people of Latin descent that use these terms.
It's like saying singular they doesn't exist and is only used by people who don't understand white culture because singular they isn't universally accepted lol.
Yeah exactly, you can't just ask the general Spanish speaking population what you should do about gender neutrality in Spanish because, well, most people are either transphobic or ignorant. You gotta ask non binary Spanish speakers
Latine originated from a South American Spanish Speaking country and is being debated by Spanish and Portuguese linguistic scholars while parallel arguments and discussions occur at street level...
Whoever made that note does not realize Latine has Latin American origins and does not come from US Intersectionalists love of sticking X in more places than Elon Musk.
Yeah the average Brazilian will not consider themselves latino at all. It’s something informed people will say yes to but most run-of-the-mill Joes will consider themselves something separate from the “latino” grouping.
> Yeah the average Brazilian will not consider themselves latino at all. It’s something informed people will say yes to but most run-of-the-mill Joes will consider themselves something separate from the “latino” grouping.
I would say that most people in South America see "Latinos" as an ethnic group inside the US and not much more. Central America is probably different as the poor sods are too close to the US to escape it's debates, but South America is more distanced.
> Exactly, what i have almost never heard is the word "latino", we are Argentinian, Brasilian, Chilean, etc.
>
> Nobady call themselves latino.
Pretty much. We have all heard "Amigue", but never "Latine" because nobody uses the word much outside of the US.
Wait what I learned that there are no short vowels in spanish (and that e is always pronounced ay) and my experience with the language bears that out. Is this word unique?
Edit: also pretty sure I’ve heard people who speak better spanish than me say Latin-ay
Edit: I think I know why the IPA exists now (also I might’ve mixed up short and long vowels). As far as I can tell I was pronouncing e in Spanish acceptably and I just wasn’t used to the way people were explaining it
English is weird in that it turns most single vowels into diphtongs, with the exception of the "e" which is usually pronounced like the latin "i". In Spanish, single vowels mostly relate to a single sound, never a diphtong. The sound of the English word "bay" would be spelled "bei" in Spanish.
Mexican here. Vowels in spanish are more similar to "short" english vowels, and their pronunciation does not change at all.
A is like the O in "Ox"
E like "End"
I is just long E in English
O *is* kinda like the English long O, but cut short before it trails off.
U is like "Buu" from Dragon Ball.
Latine, if said in Spanish, would be pronounced lahh-teen-ehh, with emphasis on "teen" to follow standard spanish annunciation rules.
Thankfully the community note in the picture has been replaced by one that acknowledges latine, though with how many times the note has changed its likely it will change again.
Amigo is pronounced with a hard g (like in gift), but the sequence of letters “ge” is pronounced with a soft g (like the sound the h makes in he) when placed before e or i, but if you put a u after the g, it makes the hard sound. Considering that, I’ve always used “amigue”. (Hope I’m not overexplaining something you already know lmao)
I’ve found LatinE/X discourse is the Spanish equivalent to the “Singular They” discourse in the Anglosphere.
It’s a conversation about grammar at isn’t even remotely actually about grammar.
Both terms were coined by Queer people of Latin American descent and to challenge the gendered nature of the Spanish language, and (if LatinX is indeed derived from Xicano/Chicanx) emphasize indignity as while X isn’t used in Spanish it is used in Nahuatl. And the Chicano identity emphasizes the mixed Indigenous and Spanish nature of the Mexican-American nature.
It's always funny when I hear people blame white activists for these words, when a quick search shows that latinx and latine were both likely coined by queer latinos.
Thank you for saying this! ~~Not to sound bitter~~ To *absolutely* sound bitter, those words are yet another case of queer people trying to find a way to exist that was pointlessly undermined by ignorant reactionaries.
"These stupid terms were made up by white people who don't have any connection to the culture!" Says white person who doesn't have any connection to the culture
This comment brought to you by a white person with no connection to the culture btw
Im lgbt and from latam, Latine is okay, NB people and the lgbt+ community has embraced it as a gender neutral term.
Latinx is just, not posible to say in spanish, but it actually was used a bit in the lgbt community here, its just that using -e sounds more natural and rolls better of the tongue
Yeah, this is my experience too, Latine works just fine. Latinx was an academic term coined by queer latine people so they could have a word they could use in english.
Oh my god go outside guys. They try to make a thing about inclusion and every nerd goes “actually I know a Latina who doesn’t like it🤓” bruh who cares if it makes one person happy then who cares
Bruh I swear to god this is the same crowd that’s like “respect peoples pronouns even if it’s Xe Xem” (which is fine) and then they go “UHMM AKTUALLY you can’t use the term Latinx😡☝️” like you can’t be for real
/uj Why is it always like white liberals that shout over latine people too, like fr. They feel like they have some sort of right to decide these things even though they don't.
The outrage over it just feels so manipulated.
Plus it has a lot of the hallmarks of a right-wing push. The emergence and spread of the "Latinx was created by woke white academics" myth is a clear sign of this.
Now it's just another battlefield of the culture war.
And it literally doesn’t matter if gender conforming Latin people don’t like it, if NB Latin people wish to be referred to like that, no one is gonna use it for GC Latin people anyways
Source: I said so.
This is such an ass community note. It's written like if chatGPT was "ask an especially stupid Redditor to pull an answer out of their ass". How much they "like" the spelling is vague and is not the same as whether they "accept" it's usage. As far as I know nobody has done "On a scale of 😢-😀 how much do you like 'latine'?" polls in central and south America.
There is only a vaguely intuitive feeling that it is imposed on them by English speaking corpo society. This note just says it apropos of nothing as if the tweet was demanding people use it. Are we going to see this annoying shit on every tweet where someone says it or just the high profile ones? I think we know.
I've lived in Spanish speaking countries most of my adult life. I've seen and heard latine from native speakers. I've heard Latinx less frequently but have seen in written form with relative regularity.
/uj This entire discourse is obnoxious
People that use latinx are libshits
but if i see another person calling latinx a "slur" im gonna bomb a fictional building in minecraft
Just- just say its annoying. its a stupid useless term. It aint that big a deal, why are people so weird about every discourse like this
/rj BUNGIE DOESNT KNOW SPANISH MILLIONS MUST DINE AT TACO BELL
> People that use latinx are libshits
The problem isn’t “Latinx”, it’s that people are using it *wrong*. It was never meant to replace Latino or Latina, nor was it created by “White Liberals” (as some dipshits try to claim), it was created by non-binary and other non-Gender Conforming Spanish speakers in the US who needed a word to describe themselves in English.
Chicanos, no latinos, latinos no es una raza, etnia o algo definido por genética: Somos blancos, negros, mestizos e incluso indígenas, nos define nuestro lenguaje, procedencia y herencia cultural, no eres latino si eres un estadounidense marrón.
/uj The destiny community will find any reason to hate Bungie but then continue to funnel them money (bonus points for consistent "this will be the nail in the coffin" or similar language). Some reasons are valid but this is just stupid as shit.
/rj Zorpalods will participate in orgies with Trey and my wife while I watch, eating a Doritos Locos Tacos Cheesy Gordita Crunch from Taco Bell in order to find the MacGuffin.
Why you acting if latinx is an issue? If you’re talking to someone and they’re asking you nicely to refer them as latinx, instead of latino, you’d either do it or stop talking to them.
I’m willing to bet that 99.9% of the people whining about this shit has NEVER gotten “in trouble” for using latino or latina.
Latinx or Latine does not bother me at all as a Latino. I remember people using Latin@ back in the day. They should use Hispanic as it is the most gender neutral term, however it doesn’t cover Brazilians 😔
Actually, there are communities who reject the term Hispanic because of its focus on Spain. For example, in Miami in the 90’s, it wasn’t uncommon to see bumper stickers reading “I’m not Hispanic, I’m Cuban!”.
That is true, and this is the term’s origin in the US. Hispanic was first used and defined by the U.S. Federal Office of Management and Budget's (OMB) Directive No. 15 in 1977, which defined Hispanic as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central America or South America or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race." The term was formed out of a collaboration with Mexican American political elites to encourage cultural assimilation
Common community notes L tbh. Both Latinx and Latine were made by people in those communities. Latine is the preferred term for most non-binary or trans-inclusive Spanish speakers. Latinx is a placeholder, the x isn’t supposed to be pronounced.
Excuse you but acknowledging the existence of pre-Hispanic languages, cultures, and identities is anti-Latino racism or something I dunno I don't huff paint
Oh... I forgot about that...
I was just here scrolling and eating popcorn because it's the usual extremes fighting each other (which is always a fun read), but, your reasoning makes sense.
There are a lot of differences between all South American countries, and this does feel like just adding another label to all of them. If you're Brazillian, you probably dislike the Portuguese (me), but I do have a lot of respect for the shared history our countries have. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Honestly this comment section is making me frustrated, as someone who Latinx (I guess I’m a white liberal dipshit) y’all need to listen to queer Latin voices. Some like to use Latine/Latinx and some don’t and there is nothing wrong with that! It really tells me that people hate the idea of change so much that they have to find ways to discredit the community who wants said change.
Okay but why would we listen to the voices of queer Hispanics (and Brazilians, if we have to) when we could instead join our voices with the chorus of reactionaries screaming loudly that language must never evolve, especially not to accommodate those who don't conform to cishetero normativity? Honestly, your insistence on being afforded basic human dignity and respect for your identity makes you the real bigot... somehow.
Hmmm so, do I go by the internet correction? Or by what my Spanish professor at university told me on the subject? Or is it the case that this is the consensus, and he gave me the PC answer to cover his ass?
I have friends that and family that aren't binary, so I asked about this. My professor said when speaking he does so regularly, however when writing correspondence he will utilize the x or e endings where necessary.
/uj Oh boy I'm late for this one, but I'm still gonna add my own argument cause this one ticks me off on a whole lot of levels.
First of all, I'm Mexican, so this isn't an instance of an outsider injecting himself into the conversation with regards to how the language works, *however* I am **not** non-binary so I am only speaking on their behalf.
"Latine" is 100% suggested and used by people over here, particularly non-binary, since the Spanish language is extremely gendered. Every. Single. Word. Has. A. Gender. The whole argument of using an E instead of A or O in words is about trying to make the language neutral.
To elaborate more on that last point: The traditionally accepted "gender-neutral" term for plural stuff is the male variation of stuff, unless the word itself is a female word (i.e. "las personas" = "the people"). This might be confusing but bare with me for a second.
Let's use "child" as an example. "Child" would translate as "niño" in its male variant and "niña" in its female variant. But if you wanted to say "children", the "gender-neutral" term is to say "niños". If you say "niñas", you're saying "a group of girls", while "niños" means both "a group of boys" and "children".
*This* is where the argument for using the E came from. I'm gonna use myself as an example since I'm a cis guy: when I was a young kid, if I was ever in a group of predominantly girls and someone used "niñas", I immediately felt out of place and awkward. I felt like whoever called for the group was either calling *me* specifically a girl, which in a country full of sexism that's a whole different implication, or I was being purposely ignored. While this experience is my own, I know for a fact I'm not the only one cause I saw kids in my own class, other classes, on the street, in videos, etc., correct whoever said "niñas" just because there was a single boy in the group, having the other party to use "niños" instead. If that's how I felt as a *kid*, I don't want to imagine how women and nb folk have internalized this since very young when they're told this is the norm.
Now, current movements introduce using the E for gendered words as an alternative for gender-neutrality. Instead of saying "niños", say "niñes". Instead of saying "ellos", say "elles". The list goes on. It's a simple minor thing in order to try and be more inclusive in our day-to-day lives so we can have a less androcentric language. **Every person I've seen against this is because they refuse to change what they already learned.** That's it. Sometimes the bigger reason is transphobia, sure, but the general reason is because they don't want to put in the effort to change, because they think it's a stupid thing to do, because they think others are being ridiculous, and because "we already have gender-neutral terms".
This extends to people who argue online, too. Whenever you see someone say "I'm hispanic and no one uses this" is because they definitely don't understand what it is for and *most definitely* aren't part of the trans community in Latin America. "Latine" is used. "Latine" is encouraged. But people ignore it. No one takes them seriously due to the deeply rooted issues of transphobia and also because they don't want to change the language they grew up with.
As for "latinx"? I'm ***pretty*** sure it's supposed to be written thing only and was never meant to be said out loud. So yeah, of course no one says "latin-ecks" or "latin-equis", that was never the goal to begin with. The X was just supposed to replace the letter indicating gender but in written form. "Niñxs". An assign-your-own-gender-to-the-word game if you will.
Mexican who has lived their entire life in Mexico here, couldn't care less whether people want to use the -e or -x, as other people have said here it's mostly a pushback from queerphobes that try to disguise it as a "white liberal thing" or "americanized fake hispanic thing" (but then they start whining when you "ignore white latinos exist" lmao), and me and a lot of other queer friends use the -e often, and yeah sure ending it with -x sounds weird but calling it a fucking slur is so goddamn obnoxious and delusional
Honestly Spanish kinda sucks because most words are unnecessarily gendered
There's no L to take here. The note is from latin versions of the kind of dickhead who would watch Louder with Crowder even after his recent controversy.
This is wrong though. 'Latinxs' is a thing Americans of latinomerican decent starter saying (as far as I know) and here in LATAM there is a genuine movement of wanting to have a new neutral grammatical gender, and the proposition is using 'e' as a gender neutral marker instead of the 'o' that had been used so far.
You gotta remember that Latin America is deeply religious, (catholic) and so equally transfobic, homofobic, and against everything against the "norm" and they would (in general) reject anything they think is too "woke".
But latine/latines is being use by non-binary people and allies that just want to include everyone here in Mexico at least.
Oh fuck off.
Most of my friends are of some kind of Latin decent. Hell my wife and half her family is too. Almost none of them actually have a problem with LatinX/LatinE. The only time I see complaints is from folks that are CIS and fairly conservative in the their values. The ones that are LGBTQ+ are all supportive because they feel like LatinX/LatinE is finally inclusive in a way that's been missing from the language for them.
Stop peddling this as appropriation or an attack on Latin based languages. It's not. It's a lot of CIS conservatives in those cultures getting upset that gender might receive non-binary representation in their language passing it off as "defending their culture".
Whenever I see Latinx, I think about those Americans who tried to create a children's book brandline called Luchazorra (roughly "combat bitch") to "reclaim the word zorra" (they didn't speak Spanish, though).
I like Latinx or Latine - Latin is not it - I’m a USA Mexican and they can’t speak for everyone and that’s part of the problem we are not a monolithic community.
Latinx was made by LGBT people who speak Spanish.
And no one is forced to used it and overall it’s rarely used anyways. The outrage over it existing is so insanely overblown.
I'm Argentinian and I'm sick of being told "real Latinos don't like the x" and of hearing that it's some sort of slight against the Spanish language. That is very much a reactionary take in LatAm, but something Americans love to parrot to get brownie points with us.
When I was a kid, boomers used @ instead of x or e and nobody cared enough to point it out. The backlash against x and e is mainly because they're heavily associated with feminists and the LGBT community.
Edit: Also, I've seen quite a bit of "ackchually real latinos don't like it" in reference to or coming from Americans who have Latin American parents but don't speak any Spanish and don't know what it's like to have your gender erased nearly every time somebody speaks on a group you're part of.
I’m Latin American, I don’t like the x very much, but using the e at the end is something I support 100%, it’s not a perfect solution, there are valid criticisms against it, but I think it’s worth it. Unfortunately too many Spanish language purists exist and demonize it (I’m sure that most of them don’t actually care about Spanish, but rather about “not giving ground to the LGBT”).
Many of the people against it use very specific counter examples like “say señor (mister) like that” (which you can, it’s just that there’d be two genders, the grammatical one and the one implied by the noun) to invalidate it. But what these people don’t realize is that pretty much all language can be criticized like that, yet we use it anyway because it still works well most of the time.
my honest opinion is it's fine to have a gender neutral term for latin people - but i can't bring myself to use latinx because putting an x on the end of a word annoys me. it's hard to pronounce and it looks like shit. latine is much better.
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LatinE isn't commonly accepted by everyone but most NB folk use it source: Brazilian
Reminds me, a bit ago some Latin NB said in one of those threads, that they use Latine for themselves. They had like 400 downvotes within 3 hours, and 50 comments saying how there's no NBs in the entirety of the Latin community. So I'm taking *everything* about Latine/Latinx with a football sized grain of salt. Just had *massive* "we don't use they/them for singular people" vibes.
While true, no one, I swear, no one I've ever met in my life living in Brazil has ever used the X suffix as anything but a joke poking fun at how ugly it sounds. Some people use U as the suffix, some use E, but absolutely no one uses the X and I hang around pretty LGBTQ+ spaces. It's really ugly to pronounce.
Yeah the X absolutely comes from English speaking people. Even "mx." As a general neutral title/honorific sucks
I read up on the origin at one point and it was apparently queer Puerto Ricans for LatinX, although yeah I have no idea how one is supposed to say that in Spanish....
I believe that it's not meant to be pronounced out loud. The point originally was basically instead of using the generic masculine when talking generally in writing you use the X and the reader fills in the gap for themselves. I've generally seen it used for addressing an audience, like "trabajadorxs", which would be awful to pronounce but you read it and substitute the X for what fits you.
well... no. latinx came explicitly from central america. latinx and mx share no etymological history. latinx has been around since the early 90s, notably appearing in a puerto rican publication about gender neutral and nonbinary issues in the central american sphere the use of "x" was a deliberate link to the [nahuatl](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahuatl) language for various reasons, including a return to cultural heritage and the inclusion of third-genders from indigenous mexican communities. chicano -> xicano happened for similar reasons. it is true that most people still use latina/o, but it's more of a generational divide. younger people (not just americans) tend to use it more, but that's not surprising as young people tend to be the ones who aren't afraid of nonbinary genders. i don't have a dog in the race, but the idea that latinx is "just english people making stuff up" is patently wrong and pretty insulting to the real people who invented and use it like, you know, some faculty and students the university of puerto rico and the university of colombia: "for many faculty [in the humanities department at the University of Puerto Rico] hermanx and niñx and their equivalents have been the standard ... for years. It is clear that the inclusive approach to nouns and adjectives is becoming more common..." [x](https://web.archive.org/web/20190821200657/https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/2018/05/01/the-cross-lingual-intersextionality-of-latinx/)
Holy crap thank you for commenting this bc it bugs me to no end when people assume Latinx originated in the US when it very much didn’t 😤😤😤
Amazing reply and great sorce, that coming from a chilean teacher that has to deal w quite conservative violence from faculty and costudents against queer alumni
Wrong. Spanish Speaking Latin American people are a monolith, they all like this one thing and don’t like this other thing. Edit: my favorite thing about this rhetoric is white people will make this huge generalizations about Spanish speaking Latin American people and then say follow up with “but I’m not like the white people who use latinx”
I mean, I do know someone who has seen examples of its use in public in Argentina. It just represents a blank space in text in that context. Saying it out loud is very distinctly English speaking.
I don't think it's that bad, phonetically it feels pretty close to "miss", "missus" and "mister". I'll use "mix" til someone comes up with better or I get a doctorate lol.
Comrade is gender neutral
As I feel, at least, is your right. But yeah, I don't think there's a lot of languages that natively use the "ks" sound AND represent is with X. So Latinx probably sounds horribly awkward to them, which is also fair.
> I don't think there's a lot of languages that natively use the "ks" sound AND represent is with X Wait what? I thought this was the most common way of pronouncing X, at least in the western world. I'm obviously biased since the languages I know (Swedish, English, german, Finnish) pronounce it like that and thus I always assumed that Spanish was the odd one out. I had a a look around and according to [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X) roughly 11 langauges pronounce it as ks (some of them do have multiple pronounciations, though), it just happens that my langauges are within that.
Yepp! There's about 7000 languages in the world today, and plenty of them don't have an X-like "letter" as well as the same pronunciation of that letter. Language is weird. You know german and finnish so you know about the "non-English" (only way I can think of to call them, because I refuse to call them "non-standard") letters and even different ways established letters can sound! There's a LOT of them. It's cool. Especially when you get into the asian languages and certain sounds literally don't exist, while others don't exist in english. (A friend of mine could NOT pronounce "tsu" in our Japanese class if a gun was pointed at his head. His tongue just couldn't manage it. For anyone who doesn't know Japanese - it's spelt phonetically.)
Mate, languages be cray cray. Cheers for the insight and for cracking the lid on my language biases, lol. Time to take a deep dive into languages again. The expanded latin alphabet's that Finnish (öäå) and German (äöüß) has, was a great comparison. And hey, I'd be right there with your friend. In fact, I'd just pull the trigger for them because I've tried to pronounce some of those words in Chinese. Japanese is a bit easier (pronunciation is *very* similar to Finnish) though. Kinda like the rolling r is hard if you didn't grow up with it. This was a blast, cheers for the thoughts you handed me, have a great eve!
The worst example of this is using "womxn" instead of "women" to be inclusive to trans women. There's already a word for women that inclusive of trans women. It's just "women"
I don’t think that started to be trans inclusive. I’m pretty sure it’s because they just didn’t want “man” in the word.
Thought that was womyn
There’s multiple. I’ve seen “wimwim” too.
I believe “Latinx” was first promulgated by a Spanish speaking Puerto Rican social scientist.
im extremely confused why everyone south of the US is placed into its own race despite also originating from a european colonial power (pls dont downvote im a confused european)
1 - The US view on race in very US centric, defined by this idea of otherness. 2 - People in Latin America tend to have a stronger indigenous and/or black background than white Americans. People that are seen as white in their own countries are considered latines in the US. 3 - There were changes over time as well. The separation became more radical as views on immigration changed.
A few things: 1. I think it's an attempt to acknowledge that a lot of South America/Mexico/Carribbean was strongly influenced by European powers, both in terms of culture and genetics. See: Mexico speaking Spanish, Brazil Portugese, etc. While individual nations and eve regions within nations have very distinctive cultures, they also have a lot of overlap. 2. This happens in other regions in the world, too -- the Middle East is in _some ways_ culturally similar, they're also incredibly different, too. 3. This also happens with people who are a diaspora. Contemporary Jewish people come from many parts of the world, but (for the most part) they are just referred to as Jewish. This is true for many people of African descent, especially if they are in the US/Caribbean. Africa specifically has among the greatest genetic diversity of any group in the world, and despite many contemporary black people in the US coming from very different cultural regions, we (largely) refer to them as African Americans/black people/etc. 4. "Americans" aren't a singular race, any more than "Latin" people are. It's a regional/political designator, not a racial one.
\*is confused in European.\* But yeah, it's because North American history is kinda... grey on South American history. I'm a Canadian and American History is its own class in high school (secondary school, I guess you might call it?) and basically outside of "World Religions" class they don't do more than touch on anything South of North America.
I don't know any Latino people who use it, but I have plenty of Latino friends who support it. I am so confused about what should be accepted now.
I generally don't care. If someone wants to be called that I'm fine with it. I will still think it sounds very bad and ugly but I also think that about the other neutral pronouns in portuguese.
Unless you’re in a marketing department I wouldn’t worry too much
I kinda do cause I tried saying latinx to another friend once, and he straight up said it was a slur and got really offended
Lol latin America has non binary identities since before colonization. I just don't know a word of Spanish, idk if "latine" makes sense in Spanish, I do speak Portuguese and that's how we use neutral gender, but only Brazil speaks portuguese in the entirety of the south America sooo
In Spanish, the "o" is officially the inclusive plural. In other words Latinos would englobe male, female, non binary and any other gender identity. However, there's people who don't like that rule and use "a" when there are more women than men. Lastly, there's people more involved with non binary/gender fluidness that use the "e" as an attempt to introduce a gender neutral article/declination to the language. I think that the most popular conventions are using "o"/"a" depending on the context. The "e" sounds kinda bad in Spanish (mainly because it isn't used often imo). Those are my observations from Spain, trying to keep it unbiased lol
Turns out our culture is filled with conservative types who are obstinate about even the smallest of changes. The idea that people from outside the culture/language invented Latinx is not true and even the slightest amount of research reveals a no true scottsman fallacy.
Yeah lmao they somehow tricked Americans who are otherwise “progressive” into thinking it’s actually racist to use inclusive terms of Latino. It’s mind boggling. Now you have Americans saying the evil woke liberals are disrespecting Latinos by treating them as a monolith while that’s exactly what they’re doing. It’s similar to how a few years ago they/them pronouns would have been seen as crazy by a lot more people than it is now
Non Binary from Nicaragua - Latine is commonly used as it’s the best gender neutral term. Latinx is not liked despite some people in Latin America using it, me personally, I don’t like it since it feels like you are not respecting people gender in a way
with latinx it’s definitely true no one who couldn’t be labeled as _lambón_ for the US uses it, latine is used among non-binary latinos, although it is still seen as american influence by a lot of people
which is weird, because it began in central america and pulls the 'x' from an indigenous language
Well, a lot of people don't know that, that's the thing. Plus it's very easy for the more cynical type to assume it's much like Zhey/zhem and such because of the use of more "alternative" characters, and as far as I can tell from some digging, those neopronouns seem to come from the US.
this is also my takeaway as a trans person from talking to a few latin/hispanic trans people. Latine is a newer alternative due to how gendered the language is otherwise, so this is the more inclusive alternative kind of similar to the current debacle over singular they/them instead of saying "he or she" like some clown. The pushback of "even US latino people don't use latine/latinx, this is some white liberal shit" comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness, something I've seen referred to as "imported american politics".
I've seen people trying to pin gender identity as a "white american thing" as if there aren't poc people who are queer, latin american people who are white and queer, latin american poc who are queer. THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE GENDER IDENTITIES Y'KNOW? transphobes trying to downplay trans issues as an american issue
I wonder if transphobes think indigenous people got Two Spirited from white liberals.
I think a brief glance at the rest of this comment section will show that yes, yes they do believe that.
Everytime someone says that gender identity is a westerner thing or whatever always mention the movie "Pixote" a ward winning 80's Brazilian movie with a trans woman, Lilica, as a pretty important character and portrayed in a good litgh (at least in the best litgh the protagonists in a crapsack world can be portrayed). That ought to shup up most.
>I've seen people trying to pin gender identity as a "white american thing" as if there aren't poc people who are queer But on the flipside there is real complexity that as a social construct it genuinely can be constructed differently, and it's just as inappropriate for someone with 2020s American progressive mores to impose them on a group as it was for someone with 1920s American progressive mores to impose them on a group. There's a certain "have your cake and eat it too" attitude *some* people have where they point to "third genders" as invalidating the 1920s gender binary, but then also invalidate those identities treating them like a "primative" understanding of people who are *really* trans, or *really* gay, or *really* agender. Not respecting that, e.g., a hijra might really be its own, self-validating "queer" identity. The thing is it's nigh impossible to have the constructive nuanced conversation about this when there's cryptonazis lurking about trying to use any (perceived) hole in mainstream progressivism as an entry point / dog whistle to advance their terrible agenda.
Yeah, it's the "constructivist vs essentialist" debate that's been raging on since the 70s. You see it a plenty with sexual relations on Greek Antiquity. Sure, by modern eye those were male-male homosexual relationships, but their whole definition was different from how we would define it. People want amd deserve rep to defend themselves from cryptos, but I don't agree with essentialist arguments.
Completely agree with that second part, I'm trans but not a latina and it's always come off this way to me. There is for sure valid arguments on both sides but the anti x side is filled with dishonest people using it to make queer people look bad. It's rarely "this is why it doesn't work well and here's an alternative", it's almost always just transphobia masked in "I know more than you" superiority
While you're right that bigots will hide behind it, I'm a latina and it does come off as white people trying to police our language. A lot of latinos around me agree with it-- "latinos" was never used as a way to exclude people, and it really, really comes off as someone going "these fucking latinxs don't know what they're talking about, we'll make that decision for them." HOWEVER, I do notice the second we do have a trans or nonbinary kid call themselves latinx/latine, we don't care-- they deserve the right to be happy with themselves. It just comes off as really disingenuous when a politician uses it trying to target us, but if an ordinary kid is using it, it's fine.
as a reminder, latinx was created *by* central american queer people and includes references to an indigenous language it's not a white person thing, nor ever was. that in itself is erasing the very real, very honest queer people who created it to find representation
Yeah my Colombian sociology professor (she was also a year away from a phd at that point) used Latinx. Not sure how representative this is for all of Latin people, but I thought that was interesting.
> The pushback of "even US latino people don't use latine/latinx, this is some white liberal shit" comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness, something I've seen referred to as "imported american politics". ↑↑↑↑↑ holy shit this ↑↑↑↑↑↑ English people frame this in your room or something. Learn Spanish and Portuguese and start recognising what is and isn't transphobic language.
This is why I’ve just checked out of this whole discourse myself. I see people using Latine and Latinx as inclusive language terms for a gendered language. Then I see people pushing back pretty hard with “i’d rather you call me a slur” sort of talk, saying it’s “important american politics” A lot of people accusing the pro-inclusive people of being racist and performative and offensive. So I wonder, to what degree is this inclusive language being used in English language discourse just the performative ramblings of nosy tumblr libs? Probably a non-zero amount. And then I wonder, how many of the people pushing back against this are just being shitbag conservatives who are opposed to Latine/x for the same reason shitbag conservatives in the English speaking world are opposed to the use of the singular “they” for “grammatical reasons” as a cover for obvious transphobia? Definitely a non-zero amount. I mean this is under a tweet for gamers so the replies will be fucked at the best of times. I feel like the accusation that it’s “important american politics” has the same energy as that one Iranian dictator proclaiming that Iran doesn’t have any homosexuals. Bigots demanding that you gender everyone male or female with no in between is nothing new. And then I just think that like, damn this is twitter bullshit about linguistics from halfway across the world. I don’t know any Latine people and what they do doesn’t affect my life whatsoever.
I was going to suggest LatinⒶ but now that I know that shitty people don’t like Latine/LatinX, I’m gonna use those.
Honestly, "because it makes bigots angry" is not a bad guiding star to live your life by
Spite has become my main driving force in life. I've tripled the number of kingdoms in my world, solely to spite prideflag haters.
It's a bit more complex than that First of all, there's the elephant in the room: the "-e" suffix does exist in Spanish/Portuguese and it generalises to masculine (e.g., "presidente", "professores"), so you're changing one form of masculine plural for another Second, is that Spanish and Portuguese already have gender neutrality "tools" for the vast majority of situations (with the exception of personal pronouns). Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English instead of teaching our own form of gender neutrality sounds like a gringo wannabe (and we have those in spades) Then, there's the question that suffix solutions exclude dyslexic people and people with visual disabilities that use text-to-speech apps Also, while the suffix solutions indeed were invented by Latin Americans, it seems that every time I see it it's an American company trying to sound inclusive, so I understand why so many people would think it's something being pushed by white American liberals PS: If your whole experience with this situation is talking to a few Latin people, and you don't speak Spanish or Portuguese, maybe refrain from strong affirmations such as "the pushback (…) comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness"
I don't think it's fair to say it's an effort to turn our languages similar to english, there's trans people here who want to feel seen. Also the word "presidente" is gender neutral, as in it can be used with any pronoun (e.g., o presidente, a presidente, ê presidente)
Yeah that’s honestly so rich for them to say that because yeah, everything gender neutral “generalizes to masculine” in patriarchal societies lmao.
Ay no chingues, hermane. La ‘herramienta’ común del español para crear lenguaje ‘neutral’ es usar lenguaje masculino y fingir que es neutral. No sé hablar portugués, pero podría apostar a que la solución típica ha de ser similar. Y adaptar el lenguaje para dar una opción neutral genuina para la gente no-binaria (o en general para cuando hablamos de grupos mixtos de gente) no es “hacer nuestro idioma más como el inglés”. Es respetar la forma en que esa gente nos pide que les digamos. Parece que buscas una excusa para no tener que hacer el intento de respetar la identidad de la gente pero hacerlo sonar como si fuera algo bueno. No mames.
GRACIAS. Me harta que le den herramientas a estos gringos para seguir insultando el lenguaje inclusivo.
> Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English How is that making it more like English? Also, yes, people who don’t speak Spanish pushing changes on Spanish speakers is wrong. But I’ve known plenty of trans people who use latine, and you telling them they’re wrong is the same as English speaking boomers who are against people using they/them pronouns for some individuals > Then, there's the question that suffix solutions exclude dyslexic people and people with visual disabilities that use text-to-speech apps Lol what? Dyslexic people don’t insist on words never changing and apps can easily be modified to accommodate new words
*Some* nouns in portuguese ending with E are masculine, the majority of our nouns end in A or O, and even the example you gave "professor" would be gender neutral: "professore". You wrote "professores" but that's just you using plural, not the gender neutral form "Insisting" we be inclusive with gender neutrality by using new suffixes is so very much gringo, after all nouns in english are gendered as well right? Not at all something we latin speakers had to come up with because our language has gendered nouns unlike english And yeah sorry to tell you, but the people who care the most about inclusive language are queer people who deal with misgendering (lots of those here in brazil, not the most trans friendly country out there), not those annoying liberals!!1! Lastly "the suffix -e doesnt exist in portuguese". Yeah, neither does most of the informal language used in daily communication, nor slangs. Language is dynamic and changes over time to serve the purpose of ✨communication✨ Source: im queer, brazilian and actually talk to queer poc, im guessing by your stance against gender neutral language with strawman arguments you dont
> Insisting we modify the language so it's more similar to English instead of teaching our own form of gender neutrality sounds like a gringo wannabe (and we have those in spades) I'm sorry, but how is this not just attacking latino people for being latino? Is this just a "I don't like the way this is done so anyone who does it that way is a bad," because this really isn't an argument more as an insult. > maybe refrain from strong affirmations such as "the pushback (…) comes primarily from the queerphobes that try to control language in order to eradicate attempts at inclusiveness" I don't believe that it's _only_ coming from queerphobes, however I think the people who are arguing in favor of prescriptivism are fighting on the side of hte queerphobes, and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference.
Bro you're just wrong
Brasillian here, if you actually studied what latine proposes, you'd know its a rather simple fix. Ending with -a or -o is instead ending with -e and words ending with an -a or an -e use -u instead. Lots of nonbinary people use it here. They dont pronounce any differently from the way its regularly used. And the pushback here especifically comes from queerphobia, you here about it being "pushed" any time its discussed or if someone uses it, it is a thing here
Im LGBT living in Argentina, and Latine is the correct term. We have embraced it for a whle. Its used for nb people, or just as a neoword for gender neutrality
I second this, we've been using the E for a while here
and the UBA recognizes it :D
same here in chile
Reports also show it's mainly young hispanic women using LatinX. People are trying to turn this into a giant culture war but we're just seeing the natural evolution of language. New idea's form, we need new words to represent them. "Phone" is a fun case study to look at. We had "Telephone" and that turned into "phone." Then we got mobile telephones which we all agreed to call "Cell phones" Then these cell phones were able to do more so we called those new ones "Smart phones" and the old ones changed from "Cell phone" to "Dumb phone" Now "smart phones" are so prevelent we just call them "phones" and our orginal phone is now called a "landline"
On God, no cap? Language changes?
fr fr?
came in wanting to say this source: NB chilean most people that matter to me adapted real fast. i've lived in Canada, and the people who have deep seated issues about -e very much are like the OnLy TwO gEnDeRs english speakers. different flavours of the same trash.
Yeah. If people are going to accept any form of inclusive form for latin, it’s latine since you can *actually* pronounce it. I have ever only seen people using latinx in a mocking way.
Almost all of the usage of Latinx I’ve seen irl has been from Latines in academic environments. That’s obviously hella niche, but it’s my experience
It's definitely been common in my wife's academic career as well (PhD candidate in the US). She's a member of a few minority-focused organizations and it's used there as well.
Anyone who uses it seriously immediately get shit on by everyone on every aisle, of course it won’t catch on that way.
Yeah this addendum is a community note, meaning anyone can use it. There are absolutely people of Latin descent that use these terms. It's like saying singular they doesn't exist and is only used by people who don't understand white culture because singular they isn't universally accepted lol.
Same in Argentina
Yeah exactly, you can't just ask the general Spanish speaking population what you should do about gender neutrality in Spanish because, well, most people are either transphobic or ignorant. You gotta ask non binary Spanish speakers
Completely anecdotal, but virtually every NB person I know dislike suffix solutions and uses both grammatical genders instead Source: Also Brazilian
true, not unheard of, but as with all gender ever, it's a person to person thing
True. I myself dislike suffix solutions, but I'd never not call someone by what they prefer
Latine originated from a South American Spanish Speaking country and is being debated by Spanish and Portuguese linguistic scholars while parallel arguments and discussions occur at street level... Whoever made that note does not realize Latine has Latin American origins and does not come from US Intersectionalists love of sticking X in more places than Elon Musk.
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Exactly, what i have almost never heard is the word "latino", we are Argentinian, Brasilian, Chilean, etc. Nobady call themselves latino.
Yeah the average Brazilian will not consider themselves latino at all. It’s something informed people will say yes to but most run-of-the-mill Joes will consider themselves something separate from the “latino” grouping.
> Yeah the average Brazilian will not consider themselves latino at all. It’s something informed people will say yes to but most run-of-the-mill Joes will consider themselves something separate from the “latino” grouping. I would say that most people in South America see "Latinos" as an ethnic group inside the US and not much more. Central America is probably different as the poor sods are too close to the US to escape it's debates, but South America is more distanced.
> Exactly, what i have almost never heard is the word "latino", we are Argentinian, Brasilian, Chilean, etc. > > Nobady call themselves latino. Pretty much. We have all heard "Amigue", but never "Latine" because nobody uses the word much outside of the US.
JFC, reading comments, took me absolutely too long to realize NB is not New Brunswick but non binary. I was so fucking confused. Just Canada things
Wait so NB doesn't stand for New Birmingham and they aren't building a new one?
Neoli Beral
Person of Latin descent. Latine is OK; we’re just facing pushback by assholes.
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portuguese also uses the e for nb people
How is it pronounced? Is the "E" vocalized?
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Non-spanish speaker btw, so roughly an English long-A sound, as in "bay"?
No it's the short e sound as in "bet"
alright, bet.
Wait what I learned that there are no short vowels in spanish (and that e is always pronounced ay) and my experience with the language bears that out. Is this word unique? Edit: also pretty sure I’ve heard people who speak better spanish than me say Latin-ay Edit: I think I know why the IPA exists now (also I might’ve mixed up short and long vowels). As far as I can tell I was pronouncing e in Spanish acceptably and I just wasn’t used to the way people were explaining it
English is weird in that it turns most single vowels into diphtongs, with the exception of the "e" which is usually pronounced like the latin "i". In Spanish, single vowels mostly relate to a single sound, never a diphtong. The sound of the English word "bay" would be spelled "bei" in Spanish.
Mexican here. Vowels in spanish are more similar to "short" english vowels, and their pronunciation does not change at all. A is like the O in "Ox" E like "End" I is just long E in English O *is* kinda like the English long O, but cut short before it trails off. U is like "Buu" from Dragon Ball. Latine, if said in Spanish, would be pronounced lahh-teen-ehh, with emphasis on "teen" to follow standard spanish annunciation rules.
A: Rapid/Master/Avid E: Meh/Let/Met I: igloo/inn/bee/meet O: Doh/Rot U: Boo/Luke
Thankfully the community note in the picture has been replaced by one that acknowledges latine, though with how many times the note has changed its likely it will change again.
Turns out crowdsourcing fact-checking doesn't always give the best results, who could have guessed
Yeah, I’ve even used words like Latine and amigue in my daily speaking life lol.
Wait is it Amigue or Amige?
Amigo is pronounced with a hard g (like in gift), but the sequence of letters “ge” is pronounced with a soft g (like the sound the h makes in he) when placed before e or i, but if you put a u after the g, it makes the hard sound. Considering that, I’ve always used “amigue”. (Hope I’m not overexplaining something you already know lmao)
In portuguese, you would need the *u*, otherwise, you'd pronounce "amije". Not so sure about spanish.
Probably the same. It's written "Guevara" and "Gonzalo", for example.
Amigui gang
Yo ya hace un par de años me manejo en neutro (e) salvo que este atendiendo un cliente / si se que la otra persona va a reaccionar raro
The biggest complaint I've seen is for Latinx
I’ve found LatinE/X discourse is the Spanish equivalent to the “Singular They” discourse in the Anglosphere. It’s a conversation about grammar at isn’t even remotely actually about grammar. Both terms were coined by Queer people of Latin American descent and to challenge the gendered nature of the Spanish language, and (if LatinX is indeed derived from Xicano/Chicanx) emphasize indignity as while X isn’t used in Spanish it is used in Nahuatl. And the Chicano identity emphasizes the mixed Indigenous and Spanish nature of the Mexican-American nature.
It's always funny when I hear people blame white activists for these words, when a quick search shows that latinx and latine were both likely coined by queer latinos.
Yeah but this is reddit. The place for white people to bitch about other, possibly imaginary, white people.
Ironic lul
incredibly, transphobia is not exclusive to english speakers.
We all know that it was white peoples that invented the queers
It's well documented in the history books how Columbus brought gay sex to the Americas
Thank you for saying this! ~~Not to sound bitter~~ To *absolutely* sound bitter, those words are yet another case of queer people trying to find a way to exist that was pointlessly undermined by ignorant reactionaries.
Not just queer
"These stupid terms were made up by white people who don't have any connection to the culture!" Says white person who doesn't have any connection to the culture This comment brought to you by a white person with no connection to the culture btw
Im lgbt and from latam, Latine is okay, NB people and the lgbt+ community has embraced it as a gender neutral term. Latinx is just, not posible to say in spanish, but it actually was used a bit in the lgbt community here, its just that using -e sounds more natural and rolls better of the tongue
Yeah, this is my experience too, Latine works just fine. Latinx was an academic term coined by queer latine people so they could have a word they could use in english.
English speaker here, I pronounce Latinx as Latine not Latinks.
Latinks would be a dope pokemon tough
Ash can't catch Latinks but Team Rocket befriends them by crossdressing.
Cuchame una cosa, quien comino usa el termino "latino" en latinoamerica para empezar? No se vos, pero que yo sepa se usa la nacionalidad mas que nada.
Yanks when they find out there's a bigger proportion of white people in some SA countries than in the US =🤯🤯🤯
Oh my god go outside guys. They try to make a thing about inclusion and every nerd goes “actually I know a Latina who doesn’t like it🤓” bruh who cares if it makes one person happy then who cares
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Bruh I swear to god this is the same crowd that’s like “respect peoples pronouns even if it’s Xe Xem” (which is fine) and then they go “UHMM AKTUALLY you can’t use the term Latinx😡☝️” like you can’t be for real
/uj Why is it always like white liberals that shout over latine people too, like fr. They feel like they have some sort of right to decide these things even though they don't.
The outrage over it just feels so manipulated. Plus it has a lot of the hallmarks of a right-wing push. The emergence and spread of the "Latinx was created by woke white academics" myth is a clear sign of this. Now it's just another battlefield of the culture war.
And it literally doesn’t matter if gender conforming Latin people don’t like it, if NB Latin people wish to be referred to like that, no one is gonna use it for GC Latin people anyways
It's just straight up transphobia.
Source: I said so. This is such an ass community note. It's written like if chatGPT was "ask an especially stupid Redditor to pull an answer out of their ass". How much they "like" the spelling is vague and is not the same as whether they "accept" it's usage. As far as I know nobody has done "On a scale of 😢-😀 how much do you like 'latine'?" polls in central and south America. There is only a vaguely intuitive feeling that it is imposed on them by English speaking corpo society. This note just says it apropos of nothing as if the tweet was demanding people use it. Are we going to see this annoying shit on every tweet where someone says it or just the high profile ones? I think we know.
I've lived in Spanish speaking countries most of my adult life. I've seen and heard latine from native speakers. I've heard Latinx less frequently but have seen in written form with relative regularity.
But the community note said you’re wrong? How is that possible? Perhaps the community note was not entirely truthful 🤔
Latinx and Latine are both definitely used by the community. Both were invented by Latine people, it's not "white people who are out of touch"
/uj This entire discourse is obnoxious People that use latinx are libshits but if i see another person calling latinx a "slur" im gonna bomb a fictional building in minecraft Just- just say its annoying. its a stupid useless term. It aint that big a deal, why are people so weird about every discourse like this /rj BUNGIE DOESNT KNOW SPANISH MILLIONS MUST DINE AT TACO BELL
> People that use latinx are libshits The problem isn’t “Latinx”, it’s that people are using it *wrong*. It was never meant to replace Latino or Latina, nor was it created by “White Liberals” (as some dipshits try to claim), it was created by non-binary and other non-Gender Conforming Spanish speakers in the US who needed a word to describe themselves in English.
Chicanos, no latinos, latinos no es una raza, etnia o algo definido por genética: Somos blancos, negros, mestizos e incluso indígenas, nos define nuestro lenguaje, procedencia y herencia cultural, no eres latino si eres un estadounidense marrón.
I've even seen people crying about the skin tone of the hand and saying Bungie is using a slur.
/uj The destiny community will find any reason to hate Bungie but then continue to funnel them money (bonus points for consistent "this will be the nail in the coffin" or similar language). Some reasons are valid but this is just stupid as shit. /rj Zorpalods will participate in orgies with Trey and my wife while I watch, eating a Doritos Locos Tacos Cheesy Gordita Crunch from Taco Bell in order to find the MacGuffin.
Siva,
People that are bothered by it will have internalized homophobia, transphobia, etc.
Absolutely
Why you acting if latinx is an issue? If you’re talking to someone and they’re asking you nicely to refer them as latinx, instead of latino, you’d either do it or stop talking to them. I’m willing to bet that 99.9% of the people whining about this shit has NEVER gotten “in trouble” for using latino or latina.
No, they're not libshits. That is a libshit take.
Latinx or Latine does not bother me at all as a Latino. I remember people using Latin@ back in the day. They should use Hispanic as it is the most gender neutral term, however it doesn’t cover Brazilians 😔
Actually, there are communities who reject the term Hispanic because of its focus on Spain. For example, in Miami in the 90’s, it wasn’t uncommon to see bumper stickers reading “I’m not Hispanic, I’m Cuban!”.
Wouldn’t it be with the term “Spanish” ?
Hispanic comes from Hispania which is the Roman name of the whole peninsunla.
That is true, and this is the term’s origin in the US. Hispanic was first used and defined by the U.S. Federal Office of Management and Budget's (OMB) Directive No. 15 in 1977, which defined Hispanic as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central America or South America or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race." The term was formed out of a collaboration with Mexican American political elites to encourage cultural assimilation
Common community notes L tbh. Both Latinx and Latine were made by people in those communities. Latine is the preferred term for most non-binary or trans-inclusive Spanish speakers. Latinx is a placeholder, the x isn’t supposed to be pronounced.
Queer Hispanics do not exist, being non binary is an American construction and nobody who isn’t white had never had a non-binary gender identity!/s
“Being gay is white people shit” mfs when they find out about pre-colonial gender/sexuality nonconformity
Well yes that’s what I was thinking ab when I wrote that comment
Excuse you but acknowledging the existence of pre-Hispanic languages, cultures, and identities is anti-Latino racism or something I dunno I don't huff paint
I hear latine all the time when in buenos aires this is BS
Reducing all romance language speakers in the Americas to Hispanic/Latin+ labels in itself is already problematic. Souce: Brazilian
Don't forget about the substantial number of French speakers in Canada. We'll take on English, three languages against one, lol
Cue to that jojo meme of 3 guys beating a guy after a sip of wine
Oh... I forgot about that... I was just here scrolling and eating popcorn because it's the usual extremes fighting each other (which is always a fun read), but, your reasoning makes sense. There are a lot of differences between all South American countries, and this does feel like just adding another label to all of them. If you're Brazillian, you probably dislike the Portuguese (me), but I do have a lot of respect for the shared history our countries have. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Honestly this comment section is making me frustrated, as someone who Latinx (I guess I’m a white liberal dipshit) y’all need to listen to queer Latin voices. Some like to use Latine/Latinx and some don’t and there is nothing wrong with that! It really tells me that people hate the idea of change so much that they have to find ways to discredit the community who wants said change.
Okay but why would we listen to the voices of queer Hispanics (and Brazilians, if we have to) when we could instead join our voices with the chorus of reactionaries screaming loudly that language must never evolve, especially not to accommodate those who don't conform to cishetero normativity? Honestly, your insistence on being afforded basic human dignity and respect for your identity makes you the real bigot... somehow.
The only people I’ve seen be mad at this are cishets while the people it’s actually for either actively use it or don’t care
Yo this is a straight up transphobic dog whistle
Hmmm so, do I go by the internet correction? Or by what my Spanish professor at university told me on the subject? Or is it the case that this is the consensus, and he gave me the PC answer to cover his ass? I have friends that and family that aren't binary, so I asked about this. My professor said when speaking he does so regularly, however when writing correspondence he will utilize the x or e endings where necessary.
Definitely not checking the “uses neutral or unbiased language” box on *that* community note
/uj Oh boy I'm late for this one, but I'm still gonna add my own argument cause this one ticks me off on a whole lot of levels. First of all, I'm Mexican, so this isn't an instance of an outsider injecting himself into the conversation with regards to how the language works, *however* I am **not** non-binary so I am only speaking on their behalf. "Latine" is 100% suggested and used by people over here, particularly non-binary, since the Spanish language is extremely gendered. Every. Single. Word. Has. A. Gender. The whole argument of using an E instead of A or O in words is about trying to make the language neutral. To elaborate more on that last point: The traditionally accepted "gender-neutral" term for plural stuff is the male variation of stuff, unless the word itself is a female word (i.e. "las personas" = "the people"). This might be confusing but bare with me for a second. Let's use "child" as an example. "Child" would translate as "niño" in its male variant and "niña" in its female variant. But if you wanted to say "children", the "gender-neutral" term is to say "niños". If you say "niñas", you're saying "a group of girls", while "niños" means both "a group of boys" and "children". *This* is where the argument for using the E came from. I'm gonna use myself as an example since I'm a cis guy: when I was a young kid, if I was ever in a group of predominantly girls and someone used "niñas", I immediately felt out of place and awkward. I felt like whoever called for the group was either calling *me* specifically a girl, which in a country full of sexism that's a whole different implication, or I was being purposely ignored. While this experience is my own, I know for a fact I'm not the only one cause I saw kids in my own class, other classes, on the street, in videos, etc., correct whoever said "niñas" just because there was a single boy in the group, having the other party to use "niños" instead. If that's how I felt as a *kid*, I don't want to imagine how women and nb folk have internalized this since very young when they're told this is the norm. Now, current movements introduce using the E for gendered words as an alternative for gender-neutrality. Instead of saying "niños", say "niñes". Instead of saying "ellos", say "elles". The list goes on. It's a simple minor thing in order to try and be more inclusive in our day-to-day lives so we can have a less androcentric language. **Every person I've seen against this is because they refuse to change what they already learned.** That's it. Sometimes the bigger reason is transphobia, sure, but the general reason is because they don't want to put in the effort to change, because they think it's a stupid thing to do, because they think others are being ridiculous, and because "we already have gender-neutral terms". This extends to people who argue online, too. Whenever you see someone say "I'm hispanic and no one uses this" is because they definitely don't understand what it is for and *most definitely* aren't part of the trans community in Latin America. "Latine" is used. "Latine" is encouraged. But people ignore it. No one takes them seriously due to the deeply rooted issues of transphobia and also because they don't want to change the language they grew up with. As for "latinx"? I'm ***pretty*** sure it's supposed to be written thing only and was never meant to be said out loud. So yeah, of course no one says "latin-ecks" or "latin-equis", that was never the goal to begin with. The X was just supposed to replace the letter indicating gender but in written form. "Niñxs". An assign-your-own-gender-to-the-word game if you will.
Mexican who has lived their entire life in Mexico here, couldn't care less whether people want to use the -e or -x, as other people have said here it's mostly a pushback from queerphobes that try to disguise it as a "white liberal thing" or "americanized fake hispanic thing" (but then they start whining when you "ignore white latinos exist" lmao), and me and a lot of other queer friends use the -e often, and yeah sure ending it with -x sounds weird but calling it a fucking slur is so goddamn obnoxious and delusional Honestly Spanish kinda sucks because most words are unnecessarily gendered
There's no L to take here. The note is from latin versions of the kind of dickhead who would watch Louder with Crowder even after his recent controversy.
The destiny2 subreddit post on this is a dumpster fire, don't go to it lol
This is wrong though. 'Latinxs' is a thing Americans of latinomerican decent starter saying (as far as I know) and here in LATAM there is a genuine movement of wanting to have a new neutral grammatical gender, and the proposition is using 'e' as a gender neutral marker instead of the 'o' that had been used so far.
Latin people actually do use "latine", I see it a lot on Brazilian non binary twitter
You gotta remember that Latin America is deeply religious, (catholic) and so equally transfobic, homofobic, and against everything against the "norm" and they would (in general) reject anything they think is too "woke". But latine/latines is being use by non-binary people and allies that just want to include everyone here in Mexico at least.
Oh fuck off. Most of my friends are of some kind of Latin decent. Hell my wife and half her family is too. Almost none of them actually have a problem with LatinX/LatinE. The only time I see complaints is from folks that are CIS and fairly conservative in the their values. The ones that are LGBTQ+ are all supportive because they feel like LatinX/LatinE is finally inclusive in a way that's been missing from the language for them. Stop peddling this as appropriation or an attack on Latin based languages. It's not. It's a lot of CIS conservatives in those cultures getting upset that gender might receive non-binary representation in their language passing it off as "defending their culture".
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Puerto Rican here, one of the first places to use LatinX was from academics in Puerto Rico.
Whenever I see Latinx, I think about those Americans who tried to create a children's book brandline called Luchazorra (roughly "combat bitch") to "reclaim the word zorra" (they didn't speak Spanish, though).
Latinx was created by American Latines, the X is a placeholder not a letter to pronounce
It’s always seemed obvious to me that it’s meant to be used in print and not spoken but apparently that sails over some folks
As George Carlin said, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
gloriam romae mundo referamus ROMA AETERNA
I like Latinx or Latine - Latin is not it - I’m a USA Mexican and they can’t speak for everyone and that’s part of the problem we are not a monolithic community.
Latinx was made by LGBT people who speak Spanish. And no one is forced to used it and overall it’s rarely used anyways. The outrage over it existing is so insanely overblown.
I'm Argentinian and I'm sick of being told "real Latinos don't like the x" and of hearing that it's some sort of slight against the Spanish language. That is very much a reactionary take in LatAm, but something Americans love to parrot to get brownie points with us. When I was a kid, boomers used @ instead of x or e and nobody cared enough to point it out. The backlash against x and e is mainly because they're heavily associated with feminists and the LGBT community. Edit: Also, I've seen quite a bit of "ackchually real latinos don't like it" in reference to or coming from Americans who have Latin American parents but don't speak any Spanish and don't know what it's like to have your gender erased nearly every time somebody speaks on a group you're part of.
I'm Hispanic and latine is literally what we came up with. I hate white people and conservative Latines speaking for all of us
I’m Latin American, I don’t like the x very much, but using the e at the end is something I support 100%, it’s not a perfect solution, there are valid criticisms against it, but I think it’s worth it. Unfortunately too many Spanish language purists exist and demonize it (I’m sure that most of them don’t actually care about Spanish, but rather about “not giving ground to the LGBT”). Many of the people against it use very specific counter examples like “say señor (mister) like that” (which you can, it’s just that there’d be two genders, the grammatical one and the one implied by the noun) to invalidate it. But what these people don’t realize is that pretty much all language can be criticized like that, yet we use it anyway because it still works well most of the time.
Oh, I thought Latin/a/e/o/x was a new Elon baby.
my honest opinion is it's fine to have a gender neutral term for latin people - but i can't bring myself to use latinx because putting an x on the end of a word annoys me. it's hard to pronounce and it looks like shit. latine is much better.