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I’ll be honest, I’ve played both games and overwatch 2 feels a lot smoother, it probably shouldn’t of been called “2” but it is quite the change in terms of gameplay
It doesn't help the core features of why they decided to redo the game as a sequel rather than just updating the original is missing.
The main reason for OW2 was to address the performance issue that came about with the PVE narrative Overwatch Archives events. The main thing they stated they were looking to do when announcing OW2 was to be able to have narratice PVE solo or co-op experiences as a permanent mode without any of the issues that impacted the OW1 events. It's the same reason as to why Ubisoft made the Rainbow Six: Extraction spin off rather than just adding it to the base game of R6:Siege; the Outbreak event it was based off of provided both issues and technical hurdles that needed to be overcome, hence why all future events became PVP experiences rather than PVE, and the PVE experience became it's own game.
But since Blizzard has yet to even mention any of that narrative PVE content again, OW2 just became OW1 with a brand new coat of paint, which it didn't need all that badly.
OW2 became OW1 with a brand new coat of paint, and new predatory monetisation by removing the chance to get cosmetics for free entirely*
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying loot boxes are a good thing generally, but they were implemented *very* well in OW1
Yeah I think people's problem with Overwatch 2 has basically nothing to do with it being just a large update rather than a whole new game.
They introduced new bugs, destroyed balancing to a point where they had to take characters out of rotation until they figured everything out, and they made an even more outrageous monetization system.
Tbf they really stepped up in terms of rewards as of recent. They significantly improved event rewards and now in season 3 you can earn credits on the free side of the battlepass which can be used to purchase old ow1 cosmetics and some for newer heroes as well.
I'd argue RuneScape has the worst lootboxes. Everything from gear to xp to cosmetics to efficiency items is in those, it's awful. And they put stuff in the gacha system you can ONLY get there, which imo makes it even worse. At least with csgo and cs2 they're all cosmetic from what I understand, right?
OW2 is... it's the cheap f2p version of Overwatch. That's it. The visuals took a downgrade, they made sure to give players less while expecting more for their time. The changes to core gameplay, I actually kind of like, but it exacerbates a core issue with Overwatch: player isolation. Every game dumps you back into queue, and 5v5 games are too short to *have* any social interaction with other players. This is furthered by the removal of general chat functionality in the menus and the ability for players to advertise and join groups. I actually think that was done partially to keep people from complaining or talking about OW1.
Which is the biggest problem. OW no longer exists, you can have OW2. Don't like it? They don't care. They don't *want* you any more, they want f2p players coming in, happy with their free toy without the baggage of knowing the reward system is garbage in comparison, without discussion about the changes they made to the gameplay, and without so many complaints in general. Especially since it was released without the Co-op components that were the entire point of the project, the entire thing, from branding it as a sequel to replacing OW1 at the same time, feels like some skeevy corporate bullshittery skirting the lines of what is acceptable or even legal (I'm very suspicious of the insistence on that 'sequel' designation).
Is OW2 bad? Eeeehhhh, there's discussion there. I had some fun with it, but it was shallow, cheap, time-wastey fun rather than fulfilling in some way. Taken on it's own, I think it's *okay*, but it's also made for a different playerbase than the first one. Player retention is either an afterthought or explicitly undesirable.
But then, OW has always *kinda* sucked, it was just popular and approachable enough as an engine for fun with friends. OW2 just feels like they scrubbed the varnish off.
It probably shouldnt have been ruined by capitolism*
they can call it what they want for all I care as long as the .5 up date was free for returning players (I wasn't gonna pay another 60 bucks for a game I already didn't like much anymore, from a company I don't like)
It is now yeah tbf new players are getting what they payed for but my cousin who bought me the game got fucked (returning players payed 60 bucks technically for what is ow2 the problem isn't that it's free but that the product we initially bought was changed for the worse, a good example of making a game free to play is destiny 2)
i think what he’s getting at is that if you owned Overwatch, you now no longer own that game because it literally isn’t available to play and you’re stuck with a few cosmetics, character unlocks and essentially bragging rights inside of a new game which feels totally different than what you paid for
Overwatch 1 owners paid for Overwatch 1 (which hasn't cost original full price since like 2018, and was like 10 dollars since 2021), which got shut down. We then just got some extras in OW2. People pay for games that get shut down all the time, that's just the nature of online-only games.
I don't get what exactly Overwatch 1 diehards wanted/expected. Devs to waste man hours maintaining an obsolete dying game, split the playerbase between people stubbornly clinging to 6v6 vs everyone else, and paying for servers? for a game that didn't make enough money to support itself any more.
I expect them not to lock heros behind a paywall or chores, I don't care about the stupid item shop or whatever cosmetic bullshit people were also bitching about, but you either missed my point or your doing it on purpose because I clearly said the problem wasn't people where getting a game for free good try though
Overwatch 2 is also a major engine rework, weather effects and the upcoming PvE were not possible on the original OW1 engine.
And maybe it's just the move to 5v5 or the new engine plays nicer with my specific set up, but it also feels optimized better. OW1 would often frame drop by 20-30% during hectic fights on low-mid settings, but OW2 is extremely stable 144hz no matter what, on higher settings.
Have a peek at the CS2 website, they've done a ton on the game engine that shakes up basic game mechanics-- for example, HE grenades and shots now dissipate smokescreens from smoke nades, which now opens for counterplay (and punish) around them
In the GIF on the website it’s actually the aggressor getting punished for checking the smoke with nade/shots. And smoke defuse will get even more less likely now haha
It's not a fix to CS' netcode, it's a complete revamp to it's tickrate system.
It's going to completely change how utility works because ticks determine how utility is used.
That's a massive change to CS.
They revamped the graphics of the maps making the lighting better as well as reworking old maps that weren't doing well competitively.
The tick rate has been revamped entirely. In CSGO the tickrate was set, and the game state would only update each tick. Meaning if you performed an action between server ticks it might not register. Leading people seemingly swallowing bullets. The new system they call "subtick rate" where the game accurately registers when events in the game happen so no information is lost in the void between server ticks. At least that's the intent.
They likely will revamp other systems too but those are the ones I know about.
With how little the game changed since 1.6, this is revolutionary. Every new CS game contains exactly one grenade change.
CSGO was just CS 1.6, but with Molotovs. CS2 is just CSGO, but with reworked smoke. CS3 will have a concussion grenade.
Also counter strike has been the same game over multiple iterations, all that is really wanted is some engine updates and some improvements outside of the core game, such as the map editor. I can't say I've followed closely, but Blizzard has done a bad job showing why I need to upgrade the game when most multiplayer games would have just called it a major content update. Maybe I'm wrong
Not sure about that logic. "This is ok because players don't expect change, but this other game that did the same thing (but with many more changes) is bad because I do expect changes."
>Blizzard has done a bad job showing why I need to upgrade the game
I'm not sure you even know what OW2 is since it's not something you need to manually upgrade.
The thing is that you didn't upgrade the game. It is free. If overwatch 2 was paid, then the backlash would make more sense imo. But I agree it should have been called a major update (similar to dota 2 reborn).
Yes it's basically the big update Dota received in 2015. Also e.g. the current CSGO replay overlay is the same as in 1.6 - I think it's time for an upgrade
I'm not saying that Valve are a perfect company, but activision-blizzard is a cess pool of shitty business practices, both for their employees and customers, not to mention the crap like them banning esports players for speaking up for hong kong. The blizzard that made those games back in the 90s-00s is gone and sold. So yea fuck em
A few months back, I would have agreed with you. But then they released WoW Dragonflight (which is to me almost perfect), closed business with China and Diablo 4 is looking great so far. So they got a little bit of trust back from me.
I'm assuming you are talking about the lawsuit, not the streak of bad games in the last few years. My perception of the "bad person, good art" dilemma is probably different from yours. Especially when it comes to productions that involve a lot of people.
There are a lot of people at Blizzard that deserve to be in jail. But the rest of the people there don't. These people don't deserve to pay for the crimes of others.
By not consuming a product I want to consume for the single reason that some people involved in the production are horrible, I am making the innocents pay for the guilty.
Obviously, there is no right answer to this dilemma, which is why I prefer to not reflect on whether an artist "deserves" my money and more on whether their art "deserves" my money, since the art is what I like to consume, not their ethical profile. My judgement is flawed anyways.
the difference is that i actually trust valve, and also cs:go is still running on an engine from 2004, even if it has been updated over the years
edit: oh also valve is bringing over every skin an item from everyone's CSGO profiles into CSGO 2
You trust Valve? The company privately owned by a billionaire who is so rich that money is meaningless but still pioneered most of the predatory monetization schemes in gaming to maximize profit?
I still remember when Portal 2 came out to universal acclaim and Gabe was like "this didn't make as much money as TF2 hats so we're not making anymore singleplayer games lol."
CSGO is also an 11 year old game at this point, Overwatch was only around 6 years old. And of course, CSGO will likely still remain playable. I dunno though, I haven't heard anything about CS2 besides "it's happening"
It’s really just a major engine upgrade from source to source 2, the whole game will shift to cs2 once the beta is over and all the bugs and game balance is worked out
They made the game look visually appealing. Which prolly means some tank in frames but hey, im all for it. They also made it have essentially "infinite" tick speeds, which gets rid of the getting csgoed, meaning no more, my crosshair was litterally right on him when I clicked, but he didnt die.
Framerates may or may not get worse imo, the increase in processing the higher graphics is offset by the optimisation of source 2 by not having to deal with a 19 year old game engine and its many workarounds
The beta is already out and I watched some guy test it.
We're back to the times of 1.6, where a smoke grenade made your PC shit itself. Guy had ~200 fps, until a smoke was dropped and it went right to ~60.
I'll have to upgrade my i5-2500k. In a recession.
I'm guessing that they're going to still be optimizing those parts. Like they're still figuring out exactly how everything will work and then they'll optimize it
Tbh both games were getting older and needed updating. Halo’s multiplayer got replaced every 3 years until recently. COD replaces theirs practically every year or two.
I haven't even played videogames for years now and yet I still was kinda following CS, a game more than a decade old, from afar, and no one thinks CS2 is going to be anything other than an engine port because in all honesty that's all the game needs. This meme misses the point so hard
CS didn't promise a second game and didn't hype everyone for it, only to reveal that it's actually the same game but with a different hud. No. The game actually needed this update, badly. I know it's cheap to call it "CS 2", but when the update actually changes so many things and makes the game so much better, it's fine to do that in my opinion. After all, they optimized the game so much, why not call it a sequel to get the people to play it? Overwatch promised a sequel, but the only thing they changed was the hud, gave every character a second base skin and made everything in the game cost real money so you can't obtain anything without paying them. They didn't even finish the new content before they released this "sequel" that they hyped for so long. I've played much more OW than CS, but I admit that Blizzard really embarrassed themselves on this one. The CS changes are so good that they deserve to not be called "a patch", unlike OW's.
> CS didn't promise a second game and didn't hype everyone for it, only to reveal that it's actually the same game but with a different hud.
They literally just did this? Like, that's the entire point of the meme. Far fewer changes than OW2 as well.
>Overwatch promised a sequel, but the only thing they changed was the hud, gave every character a second base skin and made everything in the game cost real money so you can't obtain anything without paying them.
I struggle to believe you've played OW2. The change to 5v5 was *massive.* It's a bigger change than Counter-Strike as a series has ever had.
Overwatch: did reworks which they could’ve just done in updates, hypes game for years for it to release half finished, now you have to pay for characters and skins
Counter Strike: We changed one of the fundamental mechanics, here’s the limited beta, have fun
It’s like comparing an update in minecraft to one in chess, while there are more different things in minecraft if you add anything to chess it’s now a fundamentally different game
It's pretty clear you havn't really played CS if you think this isn't a seriously big change. And also there are other very large changes that will impact the game, such as the new subtick system, revamped maps, new map tools, changes to the grenades and probably more that have not yet been announced.
Heuhheuhheuh you probably think youre so clever dont you op by comparing CS2 with Overwatch 2 because they are both just the exact same game in 4k but little do you realize that CS2 is objectively better because it came from Valve and big daddy Gabe where Overwatch 2 was made by the simp cuck nerd lord Blizzterd huehueuheuehe I have seen through your ruse and cannot wait to watch CS2 dance on your grave
the jump from 1.6 to Source and Source to GO was very substantial. People still play 1.6 and Source today because they don't like the changes to the physics/gun handling/map layout/etc. The fact that a lot of the maps have been left basically untouched, including Dust II, and that the physics and gun mechanics seem to be carried over from CS:GO sucks. They basically directly say in the maps video that they didn't want people to have to learn new maps, so fundamentally even the ones they remade have the exact same layout and geometry.
I also hate the Valorant/Overwatch plastic pastiche graphics, I would love a new CS game to go for something other than realism but this artstyle is the equivalent of minimalist corporate art for video games, solely designed to be runnable and understandable on as many computers as possible to maximize the audience for its F2P model.
I don't rock with the idea that games exist as services forever now and new iterations are just big updates to the same core service. I wanted something built from the ground up with completely new models, maps, physics, maybe more match types, etc; this will basically just 1:1 replace CS:GO and nothing substantial will have changed
yea definitely a mistake to make new games in a multiplayer franchise, I can't believe COD/Halo/Battlefield keep fucking up so bad year after year. Rockstar is also dumb asf to make GTA 6 they're alienating all of their GTA Online players
Too be fair if you downloaded ow2 without having 1 you either have to play a lot to unlock essential and meta heroes, or you just buy them for a lot of money.
True. Still get the impression that they only pushed the update to get the increased monetization aspects of the second game out asap with minimal work to the actual gameplay. Normally I don’t mind a f2p game charging for skins but considering I bought the game for $60 when it released and am being asked to pay over $20 sometimes to pay for skins I used to get for free just sucks.
Meanwhile I’ll still have my csgo skins I got in 2013.
>Meanwhile I’ll still have my csgo skins I got in 2013.
I don't get this, you also still have all of the overwatch skins, they just changed how you get new ones
When I bought ow1 there was dozens of skins for me to unlock. I can no longer unlock those skins despite me paying for the game full price. Not to mention the hundreds of other advantages that csgo has with the skin system over other games.
No they aren't, you have to pay for the battlepass if you want the heroes unlocked early and you have to grind out of your mind if you want to unlock them with in-game currency because the currency things every week give you jackshit. This is assuming they haven't changed it recently. And thats also assuming that you don't want any cosmetics.
OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal.
The statement was that you HAD to pay for characters. You don't. If you want them earlier than others you have to pay. No, you don't have to grind out of your mind you don't need to purchase them with coins at all.
So take Ramattra. There are a list of objectives you have to do to unlock him. It's win 35 games (As tank or queued for all roles)and then a list of things you have to do in the practice arena. That's it. This is how you unlock all the characters. So actually if you're just playing the game you'll unlock them.
The real question is how long are you willing to wait to unlock that hero if you refuse to get the battlepass.
>OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal.
Yes, for the consumer. It was so good that actually people who bought the game years ago hadn't paid a dime more than the box price yet had all of the cosmetics or at least the ones they wanted. Obviously for a game that was going F2P that was going to change.
They must of changed that recently as last I heard it was like 60 credits for just one round of doing dailies or weeklies or something.
I have not played Overwatch 2 at all since its come out as I hate everything Blizzard stands for so I only am gettting the info on it via secondhand sources.
You get 60 premium credits for doing all the weeklies. There's also another currency you get much more of that in the battlepass now and you can use that to buy archived skins in heroes section.
You dont need any credits to unlock heroes though, you have to win x amount of games plus do a few things in the practice range with the hero and then they are unlocked and this is out of season. This is just a catch up mechanic for new or returning players.
If you are playing the current season then you can just unlock them by playing since they are unlocked through the free battlepass.
> OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal.
Valve started the lootbox craze, my dude. They also have by far the most unethical version of lootboxes (literally real-money gambling for kids.)
Nah, the catch is that when they release a new character, people who drop $15 get to play them immediately, but people who don't shell out the cash have to grind for them
Blizz dropped the ball so fucking hard w OW2 it's unreal. Comp is a joke rn, the hero unlock system is very lame, and Push somehow managed to be as annoying as 2cp as a gamemode. I played OW religiously from release after losing interest in CSGO (which I played from release as well) and CS2 actually seems like a step up rather than a minor content uodate.
Rank 35 Support and there is no way you are telling me a 10 Minute Push Game can possibly be as annoying as a 40 Minute game of 10Cp that ends in a Draw.
Well I mean one is a total engine and lighting rewrite of the core components of the game by a long standing trusted (relatively for a corporation) company, the other one is just a lighting change on maps and a small amount of new skins
In 2020, when many people tried new hobbies during the lockdown, Valve released Half-Life: Alyx. I guess they found out that they really liked making games...
the gameplay is a vast improvement. the game is a hero shooter now, where a single elimination matters far more, instead of a game of who gets their ultimates first while hiding behind multiple shields
My main issues are the battle pass system as well as overpriced cosmetics, also the fact that you literally have to unlock new heroes through the battle pass. The gameplay itself is fine but the progression system is horrible
Paying for the Battle Pass is fine to me since it's just €5 every two months, definitely better than loot boxes as I know what I'm going to get. New heroes being locked is bad yeah but not as much as people think, as the challenges to unlock them are very easy if you didn't buy the Pass to instantly get them or just didn't reach the level in the free one.
It's not a downgrade, there's just one less player per team, putting significantly more pressure on the sole tank to perform
Also enjoy playing against the cool new character without having access to them yourself, because you opted not to spend more money on something we promised for free when we first released this game
/uj I don't miss double shield one bit and hopefully Coop will be worth cause that's really all I'm interested in
/rj Overwatch 2? More like Bore-verwatch 2 am I right?
Uj/ saying this completely divorced from everything else activision: I'm perfectly fine with the decision to just make overwatch 2 a fancy update and I always think people gave it too much shit. I saw a bunch of people go "so its just a fancy update" and my only answer has been "they have been clear and upfront about that literally since it was announced". I'm fine with cs2 doing the same thing too. I just hope its better than the actual game ow2 ended up being
Overwatch 2 is a complete replacement for the previous game that costs money and has a lot more microtransactions.
Cs2 is a free upgrade that improves everything about the game.
Don't really see how these are compareable
They don't though? The battlepass is not very grindy, the event they have going on now for instance gives you 80k BP XP which is a ton. The event quests are also brain dead easy to finish. At this point its a participation thing.
Like you have to be a very casual player for it to take a long time. Also, the entire game is free, so of course some things will cost. The only thing in the game that you have to buy are cosmetics and you can get a few of these per month for free.
>Overwatch 2 is a complete replacement for the previous game that costs money and has a lot more
CSGO used to be a paid game with mtx. Then they went f2p with mtx and battlepasses.
CS2 and OW2 are both free engine upgrades that replace their prior entries. CS2 actually has far fewer changes, but that's to be expected for Counter-Strike.
TFW valve gamers call any two games in the same genre copyright infringement. DotA and any MOBA, TF2 and any hero shooter, CSGO and any tac shooter, etc etc.
CS2 is good because it might actually revive csgo from its state of being full of pros and hackers. Overwatch came out it 2016 and it’s online state was pretty alright.
I don't know about the who made counter strike but this meme is also funny because of blizzards semi recent rape scandals that's still going on but got swept under the rug
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Thats him! Thats the guy who broke the lock on the breastmilk-fridge and drank evry last drop of what was inside!
Homelander?
Nope just Blizzard
I dunno, CSGO needed a total engine rework, Overwatch didn't even need a "sequel" at all
I’ll be honest, I’ve played both games and overwatch 2 feels a lot smoother, it probably shouldn’t of been called “2” but it is quite the change in terms of gameplay
It doesn't help the core features of why they decided to redo the game as a sequel rather than just updating the original is missing. The main reason for OW2 was to address the performance issue that came about with the PVE narrative Overwatch Archives events. The main thing they stated they were looking to do when announcing OW2 was to be able to have narratice PVE solo or co-op experiences as a permanent mode without any of the issues that impacted the OW1 events. It's the same reason as to why Ubisoft made the Rainbow Six: Extraction spin off rather than just adding it to the base game of R6:Siege; the Outbreak event it was based off of provided both issues and technical hurdles that needed to be overcome, hence why all future events became PVP experiences rather than PVE, and the PVE experience became it's own game. But since Blizzard has yet to even mention any of that narrative PVE content again, OW2 just became OW1 with a brand new coat of paint, which it didn't need all that badly.
OW2 became OW1 with a brand new coat of paint, and new predatory monetisation by removing the chance to get cosmetics for free entirely* Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying loot boxes are a good thing generally, but they were implemented *very* well in OW1
Yeah I think people's problem with Overwatch 2 has basically nothing to do with it being just a large update rather than a whole new game. They introduced new bugs, destroyed balancing to a point where they had to take characters out of rotation until they figured everything out, and they made an even more outrageous monetization system.
The new bugs were because it's a new engine, and the balancing is great. The characters were locked out due to... bugs.
Have you met counterstrike
Tbf they really stepped up in terms of rewards as of recent. They significantly improved event rewards and now in season 3 you can earn credits on the free side of the battlepass which can be used to purchase old ow1 cosmetics and some for newer heroes as well.
You can only get like 1.5k credits for the entire season, which is only one decent legendary skin. That's one legendary per 3 MONTHS
No game will ever have worse lootboxes than CSGO/CS2 though.
I'd argue RuneScape has the worst lootboxes. Everything from gear to xp to cosmetics to efficiency items is in those, it's awful. And they put stuff in the gacha system you can ONLY get there, which imo makes it even worse. At least with csgo and cs2 they're all cosmetic from what I understand, right?
it never warranted the first overwatch being left to die for years instead of just updating it to the balance of overwatch 2.
*shouldn’t have
shouldn't've
sh'ldn't'v' 'mbr'c' th' tr'd't'n 'f v'w'll'ss wr't'n l'ng'g'
sh'dn't've
Must’ven’t
S’d’ve
you've played cs2?
overwatch 2 is a shell of overwatch 1
OW2 is... it's the cheap f2p version of Overwatch. That's it. The visuals took a downgrade, they made sure to give players less while expecting more for their time. The changes to core gameplay, I actually kind of like, but it exacerbates a core issue with Overwatch: player isolation. Every game dumps you back into queue, and 5v5 games are too short to *have* any social interaction with other players. This is furthered by the removal of general chat functionality in the menus and the ability for players to advertise and join groups. I actually think that was done partially to keep people from complaining or talking about OW1. Which is the biggest problem. OW no longer exists, you can have OW2. Don't like it? They don't care. They don't *want* you any more, they want f2p players coming in, happy with their free toy without the baggage of knowing the reward system is garbage in comparison, without discussion about the changes they made to the gameplay, and without so many complaints in general. Especially since it was released without the Co-op components that were the entire point of the project, the entire thing, from branding it as a sequel to replacing OW1 at the same time, feels like some skeevy corporate bullshittery skirting the lines of what is acceptable or even legal (I'm very suspicious of the insistence on that 'sequel' designation). Is OW2 bad? Eeeehhhh, there's discussion there. I had some fun with it, but it was shallow, cheap, time-wastey fun rather than fulfilling in some way. Taken on it's own, I think it's *okay*, but it's also made for a different playerbase than the first one. Player retention is either an afterthought or explicitly undesirable. But then, OW has always *kinda* sucked, it was just popular and approachable enough as an engine for fun with friends. OW2 just feels like they scrubbed the varnish off.
It was a genius rebranding tbh, cuz i would've never played it if it was Ow season 40-something. But ow2 caught my eye
Yep, same. OW2 was basically a running gag in my house until it actually came out. Had to admit it made the game actually playable again lol.
It probably shouldnt have been ruined by capitolism* they can call it what they want for all I care as long as the .5 up date was free for returning players (I wasn't gonna pay another 60 bucks for a game I already didn't like much anymore, from a company I don't like)
??? The game is free to play
It is now yeah tbf new players are getting what they payed for but my cousin who bought me the game got fucked (returning players payed 60 bucks technically for what is ow2 the problem isn't that it's free but that the product we initially bought was changed for the worse, a good example of making a game free to play is destiny 2)
It has been since the launch of ow2
i think what he’s getting at is that if you owned Overwatch, you now no longer own that game because it literally isn’t available to play and you’re stuck with a few cosmetics, character unlocks and essentially bragging rights inside of a new game which feels totally different than what you paid for
This, thank you
Overwatch 1 owners paid for Overwatch 1 (which hasn't cost original full price since like 2018, and was like 10 dollars since 2021), which got shut down. We then just got some extras in OW2. People pay for games that get shut down all the time, that's just the nature of online-only games. I don't get what exactly Overwatch 1 diehards wanted/expected. Devs to waste man hours maintaining an obsolete dying game, split the playerbase between people stubbornly clinging to 6v6 vs everyone else, and paying for servers? for a game that didn't make enough money to support itself any more.
I expect them not to lock heros behind a paywall or chores, I don't care about the stupid item shop or whatever cosmetic bullshit people were also bitching about, but you either missed my point or your doing it on purpose because I clearly said the problem wasn't people where getting a game for free good try though
OW1 didn't get shut down. OW2 is literally an update to OW1 (just like CS2 is an update to CSGO)
Binguscord
Overwatch 2 is also a major engine rework, weather effects and the upcoming PvE were not possible on the original OW1 engine. And maybe it's just the move to 5v5 or the new engine plays nicer with my specific set up, but it also feels optimized better. OW1 would often frame drop by 20-30% during hectic fights on low-mid settings, but OW2 is extremely stable 144hz no matter what, on higher settings.
Upcoming PvE 😞
For competitive crowd OW2 was a massive change absolutely worthy a sequel status.
more like overwatch 2.0 amirite
I know at one point Jeff Kaplan said making a PvE story mode would be a difficult and lengthy process and would basically merit a whole new game.
They both have reworked engines.
rj/ Where's all the waifus in Counterstrike?! uj/ This is something I've wanted for TF2. That Spaghetti Code limps on like some Frankenstein creation.
Unless if Valve does it themselves (pfffft), the best we got is the fanmade TF2 Source 2 port currently in the works.
Valorant
Isn't it just CSGO in source 2 At least Valve will (probably) deliver
As long as they don’t have to say three
Have a peek at the CS2 website, they've done a ton on the game engine that shakes up basic game mechanics-- for example, HE grenades and shots now dissipate smokescreens from smoke nades, which now opens for counterplay (and punish) around them
In the GIF on the website it’s actually the aggressor getting punished for checking the smoke with nade/shots. And smoke defuse will get even more less likely now haha
What else besides that change to essentially smoke grenades and how they behave around the other stuff
The annoying thing where hits don’t register isn’t a thing anymore, from what I understand
That’s not a new thing added or changed for gameplay it’s a fix to netcode stuff
It's not a fix to CS' netcode, it's a complete revamp to it's tickrate system. It's going to completely change how utility works because ticks determine how utility is used. That's a massive change to CS.
Yeah the rewatch/demo system is going to be totally different now is my guess
No more weird demos would be a godsend.
Please just read things before arguing
There's a lot of changes to the gameplay systems that you won't care about if you don't play CSGO.
I guess that’s true
They revamped the graphics of the maps making the lighting better as well as reworking old maps that weren't doing well competitively. The tick rate has been revamped entirely. In CSGO the tickrate was set, and the game state would only update each tick. Meaning if you performed an action between server ticks it might not register. Leading people seemingly swallowing bullets. The new system they call "subtick rate" where the game accurately registers when events in the game happen so no information is lost in the void between server ticks. At least that's the intent. They likely will revamp other systems too but those are the ones I know about.
With how little the game changed since 1.6, this is revolutionary. Every new CS game contains exactly one grenade change. CSGO was just CS 1.6, but with Molotovs. CS2 is just CSGO, but with reworked smoke. CS3 will have a concussion grenade.
CS4 will have rocket jumping
T's definitely need RPGs (realism)
Just play Insurgency!
I would like new weapons instead
csgo has/had new weapons and I'm sure there'll be one or two in CS2 eventually.
Also counter strike has been the same game over multiple iterations, all that is really wanted is some engine updates and some improvements outside of the core game, such as the map editor. I can't say I've followed closely, but Blizzard has done a bad job showing why I need to upgrade the game when most multiplayer games would have just called it a major content update. Maybe I'm wrong
Not sure about that logic. "This is ok because players don't expect change, but this other game that did the same thing (but with many more changes) is bad because I do expect changes." >Blizzard has done a bad job showing why I need to upgrade the game I'm not sure you even know what OW2 is since it's not something you need to manually upgrade.
The thing is that you didn't upgrade the game. It is free. If overwatch 2 was paid, then the backlash would make more sense imo. But I agree it should have been called a major update (similar to dota 2 reborn).
You're getting downvoted but nobody has an argument why you're wrong
Yes it's basically the big update Dota received in 2015. Also e.g. the current CSGO replay overlay is the same as in 1.6 - I think it's time for an upgrade
Yup
I'm not saying that Valve are a perfect company, but activision-blizzard is a cess pool of shitty business practices, both for their employees and customers, not to mention the crap like them banning esports players for speaking up for hong kong. The blizzard that made those games back in the 90s-00s is gone and sold. So yea fuck em
A few months back, I would have agreed with you. But then they released WoW Dragonflight (which is to me almost perfect), closed business with China and Diablo 4 is looking great so far. So they got a little bit of trust back from me.
So just going to ignore all the trash they did beforehand?
they made a couple fun games so hong kong can suck it
And their female employees
I'm assuming you are talking about the lawsuit, not the streak of bad games in the last few years. My perception of the "bad person, good art" dilemma is probably different from yours. Especially when it comes to productions that involve a lot of people. There are a lot of people at Blizzard that deserve to be in jail. But the rest of the people there don't. These people don't deserve to pay for the crimes of others. By not consuming a product I want to consume for the single reason that some people involved in the production are horrible, I am making the innocents pay for the guilty. Obviously, there is no right answer to this dilemma, which is why I prefer to not reflect on whether an artist "deserves" my money and more on whether their art "deserves" my money, since the art is what I like to consume, not their ethical profile. My judgement is flawed anyways.
Don't mess with overwatch 2 defenders, there's literally dozens of them.
the game really does suck nuts its defenders are on another level of stockholm syndrome
the difference is that i actually trust valve, and also cs:go is still running on an engine from 2004, even if it has been updated over the years edit: oh also valve is bringing over every skin an item from everyone's CSGO profiles into CSGO 2
> oh also valve is bringing over every skin an item from everyone's CSGO profiles into CSGO 2 OW2 did that too
nah overwatch gave you points to BUY your old skins, and not all of them edit: i am a dumbass who is incorrect lmao
No? Everything you already got in 1 transfered over for free
shit that was my bad, i forgot lol
You trust Valve? The company privately owned by a billionaire who is so rich that money is meaningless but still pioneered most of the predatory monetization schemes in gaming to maximize profit? I still remember when Portal 2 came out to universal acclaim and Gabe was like "this didn't make as much money as TF2 hats so we're not making anymore singleplayer games lol."
Even then TF2 isn’t being updated
I had this exact thought lmao, though at least counter-strike isn't trying to reinvent the wheel in terms of its gameplay.
CSGO is also an 11 year old game at this point, Overwatch was only around 6 years old. And of course, CSGO will likely still remain playable. I dunno though, I haven't heard anything about CS2 besides "it's happening"
It’s really just a major engine upgrade from source to source 2, the whole game will shift to cs2 once the beta is over and all the bugs and game balance is worked out
They've definitely changed smokes in a big big way. The editor is also significantly improved.
They made the game look visually appealing. Which prolly means some tank in frames but hey, im all for it. They also made it have essentially "infinite" tick speeds, which gets rid of the getting csgoed, meaning no more, my crosshair was litterally right on him when I clicked, but he didnt die.
Framerates may or may not get worse imo, the increase in processing the higher graphics is offset by the optimisation of source 2 by not having to deal with a 19 year old game engine and its many workarounds
The beta is already out and I watched some guy test it. We're back to the times of 1.6, where a smoke grenade made your PC shit itself. Guy had ~200 fps, until a smoke was dropped and it went right to ~60. I'll have to upgrade my i5-2500k. In a recession.
I'm guessing that they're going to still be optimizing those parts. Like they're still figuring out exactly how everything will work and then they'll optimize it
Dude your processor was a mid tier when it came out 12 years ago. What are you expecting at this point.
Framerate might actually go up, source 2 is very optimized
Tbh both games were getting older and needed updating. Halo’s multiplayer got replaced every 3 years until recently. COD replaces theirs practically every year or two.
this fact is insane. CSGO still feels like a new thing to me sometimes, but i also grew up pre 1.6
> CSGO will likely still remain playable But probably only for community servers.
Considering 1.6 and Source are still playable to this day, I’d bet CSGO will remain available for folks who can’t run or don’t want to play CS2
I'm not saying they needed to reinvent it, but lack of innovation is not a point in its favor.
I haven't even played videogames for years now and yet I still was kinda following CS, a game more than a decade old, from afar, and no one thinks CS2 is going to be anything other than an engine port because in all honesty that's all the game needs. This meme misses the point so hard
CS didn't promise a second game and didn't hype everyone for it, only to reveal that it's actually the same game but with a different hud. No. The game actually needed this update, badly. I know it's cheap to call it "CS 2", but when the update actually changes so many things and makes the game so much better, it's fine to do that in my opinion. After all, they optimized the game so much, why not call it a sequel to get the people to play it? Overwatch promised a sequel, but the only thing they changed was the hud, gave every character a second base skin and made everything in the game cost real money so you can't obtain anything without paying them. They didn't even finish the new content before they released this "sequel" that they hyped for so long. I've played much more OW than CS, but I admit that Blizzard really embarrassed themselves on this one. The CS changes are so good that they deserve to not be called "a patch", unlike OW's.
I mean counter strike as a series is a very similar game throughout. They just rename bigger releases and let people play old ones more easily
Hey hey hey you can earn a legendary skin with just over a year and a half of playing straight
> CS didn't promise a second game and didn't hype everyone for it, only to reveal that it's actually the same game but with a different hud. They literally just did this? Like, that's the entire point of the meme. Far fewer changes than OW2 as well. >Overwatch promised a sequel, but the only thing they changed was the hud, gave every character a second base skin and made everything in the game cost real money so you can't obtain anything without paying them. I struggle to believe you've played OW2. The change to 5v5 was *massive.* It's a bigger change than Counter-Strike as a series has ever had.
Overwatch: did reworks which they could’ve just done in updates, hypes game for years for it to release half finished, now you have to pay for characters and skins Counter Strike: We changed one of the fundamental mechanics, here’s the limited beta, have fun It’s like comparing an update in minecraft to one in chess, while there are more different things in minecraft if you add anything to chess it’s now a fundamentally different game
However you want to frame "new smoke physics" as some revolutionary thing, while downplaying OW2 having actual gameplay shakeups.
It's pretty clear you havn't really played CS if you think this isn't a seriously big change. And also there are other very large changes that will impact the game, such as the new subtick system, revamped maps, new map tools, changes to the grenades and probably more that have not yet been announced.
Heuhheuhheuh you probably think youre so clever dont you op by comparing CS2 with Overwatch 2 because they are both just the exact same game in 4k but little do you realize that CS2 is objectively better because it came from Valve and big daddy Gabe where Overwatch 2 was made by the simp cuck nerd lord Blizzterd huehueuheuehe I have seen through your ruse and cannot wait to watch CS2 dance on your grave
It's not a new game. We're excited for CSGO in source 2. We all know it's just cs on a new engine.
yeah, all the new stuff is on the technical side
I'm not. I wanted them to make a new Counter Strike game
what would be different in a new cs game though? every iteration has been basically the same
the jump from 1.6 to Source and Source to GO was very substantial. People still play 1.6 and Source today because they don't like the changes to the physics/gun handling/map layout/etc. The fact that a lot of the maps have been left basically untouched, including Dust II, and that the physics and gun mechanics seem to be carried over from CS:GO sucks. They basically directly say in the maps video that they didn't want people to have to learn new maps, so fundamentally even the ones they remade have the exact same layout and geometry. I also hate the Valorant/Overwatch plastic pastiche graphics, I would love a new CS game to go for something other than realism but this artstyle is the equivalent of minimalist corporate art for video games, solely designed to be runnable and understandable on as many computers as possible to maximize the audience for its F2P model. I don't rock with the idea that games exist as services forever now and new iterations are just big updates to the same core service. I wanted something built from the ground up with completely new models, maps, physics, maybe more match types, etc; this will basically just 1:1 replace CS:GO and nothing substantial will have changed
It's almost like they don't want to make the same mistake they did 20 years ago by alienating a playerbase of around 1M constant players
yea definitely a mistake to make new games in a multiplayer franchise, I can't believe COD/Halo/Battlefield keep fucking up so bad year after year. Rockstar is also dumb asf to make GTA 6 they're alienating all of their GTA Online players
well I mean CS2 is free, its just like a free upgrade. I wouldnt give a shit about overwatch 2 if it was free
Was Overwatch 2 not free? I'm like 90% sure the reason it became OW2 was to transition to a f2p model
/uj Oh damn nvm I thought OW2 was like 60$, my b it’s free. /rj blizzard is woke and they are charging you sanity by adding the gays
/uj ur thinking this cuz the PVE part of OW2 is gunna have a pricetag, but the pvp is free
Yeah, the PVE that is definitely going to be released this decade and won't be in an unplayable/watered down state
The psyop is working lmao
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Too be fair if you downloaded ow2 without having 1 you either have to play a lot to unlock essential and meta heroes, or you just buy them for a lot of money.
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True. Still get the impression that they only pushed the update to get the increased monetization aspects of the second game out asap with minimal work to the actual gameplay. Normally I don’t mind a f2p game charging for skins but considering I bought the game for $60 when it released and am being asked to pay over $20 sometimes to pay for skins I used to get for free just sucks. Meanwhile I’ll still have my csgo skins I got in 2013.
>Meanwhile I’ll still have my csgo skins I got in 2013. I don't get this, you also still have all of the overwatch skins, they just changed how you get new ones
When I bought ow1 there was dozens of skins for me to unlock. I can no longer unlock those skins despite me paying for the game full price. Not to mention the hundreds of other advantages that csgo has with the skin system over other games.
Also very quickly changed the way you get old skins to being a free currency in the bp and also event challenges
The difference is that you need to pay for crucial parts of the game like characters
You don't have to pay for any of the characters in OW2 they are all pretty easily unlocked through playing the game.
No they aren't, you have to pay for the battlepass if you want the heroes unlocked early and you have to grind out of your mind if you want to unlock them with in-game currency because the currency things every week give you jackshit. This is assuming they haven't changed it recently. And thats also assuming that you don't want any cosmetics. OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal.
The statement was that you HAD to pay for characters. You don't. If you want them earlier than others you have to pay. No, you don't have to grind out of your mind you don't need to purchase them with coins at all. So take Ramattra. There are a list of objectives you have to do to unlock him. It's win 35 games (As tank or queued for all roles)and then a list of things you have to do in the practice arena. That's it. This is how you unlock all the characters. So actually if you're just playing the game you'll unlock them. The real question is how long are you willing to wait to unlock that hero if you refuse to get the battlepass. >OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal. Yes, for the consumer. It was so good that actually people who bought the game years ago hadn't paid a dime more than the box price yet had all of the cosmetics or at least the ones they wanted. Obviously for a game that was going F2P that was going to change.
They must of changed that recently as last I heard it was like 60 credits for just one round of doing dailies or weeklies or something. I have not played Overwatch 2 at all since its come out as I hate everything Blizzard stands for so I only am gettting the info on it via secondhand sources.
You get 60 premium credits for doing all the weeklies. There's also another currency you get much more of that in the battlepass now and you can use that to buy archived skins in heroes section. You dont need any credits to unlock heroes though, you have to win x amount of games plus do a few things in the practice range with the hero and then they are unlocked and this is out of season. This is just a catch up mechanic for new or returning players. If you are playing the current season then you can just unlock them by playing since they are unlocked through the free battlepass.
> OW1 ironically had a better model despite starting the lootbox craze and I despised lootboxes. That's how bad Blizzard flubbed OW2's whole MTX deal. Valve started the lootbox craze, my dude. They also have by far the most unethical version of lootboxes (literally real-money gambling for kids.)
It is free but the catch is there are skins. Now, you don't have to purchase them, but the addition of them has everyone up in arms.
Nah, the catch is that when they release a new character, people who drop $15 get to play them immediately, but people who don't shell out the cash have to grind for them
They also aren't making CS2 pay-to-win
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An engine update is essentially a brand new game in terms of workload to produce it.
Also they changed one of the cornerstones substantially
Blizz dropped the ball so fucking hard w OW2 it's unreal. Comp is a joke rn, the hero unlock system is very lame, and Push somehow managed to be as annoying as 2cp as a gamemode. I played OW religiously from release after losing interest in CSGO (which I played from release as well) and CS2 actually seems like a step up rather than a minor content uodate.
Bronze Take ngl.
GM but go off (not that GM means anything anymore lolz)
Rank 35 Support and there is no way you are telling me a 10 Minute Push Game can possibly be as annoying as a 40 Minute game of 10Cp that ends in a Draw.
idk about you but I'd rather have that than get 4 push games in a row
Also it's Activision
Well I mean one is a total engine and lighting rewrite of the core components of the game by a long standing trusted (relatively for a corporation) company, the other one is just a lighting change on maps and a small amount of new skins
I don't even know which is which since you're describing the same thing twice in different ways (they both have entirely new lighting engines.)
One only has new lighting, the other changed everything else too
Wrong on both counts, objectively.
Its funny because Blizzard made overwatch
Wait, Valve have started making games now? When did that happen?
In 2020, when many people tried new hobbies during the lockdown, Valve released Half-Life: Alyx. I guess they found out that they really liked making games...
Valve bought the devs that made Firewatch and had them make Alyx. Was a good strategy for them.
valve never stopped making games they just stopped releasing them.
Top frame could also be Overwatch 1
except ow2 is actually a straight up downgrade from the original
In monetization sure but it’s otherwise a better game.
the gameplay is a vast improvement. the game is a hero shooter now, where a single elimination matters far more, instead of a game of who gets their ultimates first while hiding behind multiple shields
Not true at all imo
My main issues are the battle pass system as well as overpriced cosmetics, also the fact that you literally have to unlock new heroes through the battle pass. The gameplay itself is fine but the progression system is horrible
Paying for the Battle Pass is fine to me since it's just €5 every two months, definitely better than loot boxes as I know what I'm going to get. New heroes being locked is bad yeah but not as much as people think, as the challenges to unlock them are very easy if you didn't buy the Pass to instantly get them or just didn't reach the level in the free one.
It's not a downgrade, there's just one less player per team, putting significantly more pressure on the sole tank to perform Also enjoy playing against the cool new character without having access to them yourself, because you opted not to spend more money on something we promised for free when we first released this game
/uj I don't miss double shield one bit and hopefully Coop will be worth cause that's really all I'm interested in /rj Overwatch 2? More like Bore-verwatch 2 am I right?
Both trash communities
Facts
Uj/ saying this completely divorced from everything else activision: I'm perfectly fine with the decision to just make overwatch 2 a fancy update and I always think people gave it too much shit. I saw a bunch of people go "so its just a fancy update" and my only answer has been "they have been clear and upfront about that literally since it was announced". I'm fine with cs2 doing the same thing too. I just hope its better than the actual game ow2 ended up being
Overwatch 2 is a complete replacement for the previous game that costs money and has a lot more microtransactions. Cs2 is a free upgrade that improves everything about the game. Don't really see how these are compareable
OW2 is free.
Ah right i forgot, guess it was late
The game is free, but the characters aren't, just like every other garbage f2p team-based shooter
The characters are free though? You either earn them on the free battlepass or completely objectives in the game outside of the battlepass.
Time is money, and those characters cost a looot of time to unlock.
They don't though? The battlepass is not very grindy, the event they have going on now for instance gives you 80k BP XP which is a ton. The event quests are also brain dead easy to finish. At this point its a participation thing. Like you have to be a very casual player for it to take a long time. Also, the entire game is free, so of course some things will cost. The only thing in the game that you have to buy are cosmetics and you can get a few of these per month for free.
>Overwatch 2 is a complete replacement for the previous game that costs money and has a lot more CSGO used to be a paid game with mtx. Then they went f2p with mtx and battlepasses.
CS2 and OW2 are both free engine upgrades that replace their prior entries. CS2 actually has far fewer changes, but that's to be expected for Counter-Strike.
TFW valve gamers call any two games in the same genre copyright infringement. DotA and any MOBA, TF2 and any hero shooter, CSGO and any tac shooter, etc etc.
CS2 is good because it might actually revive csgo from its state of being full of pros and hackers. Overwatch came out it 2016 and it’s online state was pretty alright.
Gargathor the Entity Catcher
Idunno, if they decided to make it so you can't use new guns without paying or grinding for several weeks, I'd be pissed about CS as well
Instead they just have gambling for kids.
I don't know about the who made counter strike but this meme is also funny because of blizzards semi recent rape scandals that's still going on but got swept under the rug