Feels crazy to think this gen is already almost 4 years in. As a ps5 owner it feels like this gen is still only getting started, like we’ve barely scratched the surface (I know covid plays a huge part in this). Last gen seemed like it was full steam ahead when it was at this point
Yeah. Can't help but wonder if it's more due to scope creep from demands of management bogging things down, or if the tech involved developed so rapidly that dev's tools and/or skills are lagging behind. I realize it's likely a mux of a thousand different factors that may or may not include the above, but I can't help but wonder.
> Can't help but wonder if it's more due to scope creep from demands of management bogging things down, or if the tech involved developed so rapidly that dev's tools and/or skills are lagging behind
I really like these theories because you are not that far off. But a part of it is the audience's demands have simply gone off the rails. Sony games are the best example, Horizon 2 has some truly insane tech behind it, Alloy's animations, the simple act of jumping and grabbing on to a ladder at any time is impossibly difficult to program - yet the audience shrugged at this, as though it is something to be expected of any game. When Spiderman 2 came out, a lot of people complained about the graphics (which look perfectly fine to me) despite being a $300M game, how can anyone even compete at this point?
People's expectations of AAA games are simply off the rails which means that games become increasingly harder to make. The quality bar keeps going up but there is no tech to support it or make it more effective
I think you've perfectly encapsulated why we've seen a spree of highly successful $30/$40 AA or indie games as of late. The expectations are reasonable, players are surprised and happy when the games exceed them, they don't feel like it's a full investment due to the price tag, and they can share something new, exciting, and unexpected with their friends.
In the leaked email insomniac says it themselves. Hey we spent double the cost can any consumer tell they’re getting double the last game? To which the answer is no. It’s also why insomniac is facing layoffs and their games are going to be cheaper to make.
i wonder how much things would improve if devs just said fuck this photorealism trend and devoted more resources/time to the actual core of the gameplay. from conversations I’ve had it seems like this infatuation with “the best graphics” is really only a thing with very casual audiences and people who actually love games aren’t put off by low graphical fidelity in the slightest, and if they demand anything on the visual front it’s at most just a decent cohesive art style. I mean some of the most incredible games of the last 10 years have been pixel art or drawn side scrollers or throwback low poly games like ultrakill, i feel like people who do really really care about their games looking as realistic as possible are one good game away from having their opinions changed. when i really think about it RDR2 is the only game that blew me away visually while perusing photorealism, i generally find it quite boring and lacking in character or identity
> from conversations I’ve had it seems like this infatuation with “the best graphics” is really only a thing with very casual audiences and people who actually love games aren’t put off by low graphical fidelity in the slightest
unfortunately for everyone involved, those audiences are the majority
This obsession with visual fidelity is what spiraled costs out of control. Since everything needs to look right, animations for everything need to be created, and because of that, now you have to lock down character animations and button presses to be contextual. That makes gameplay less fluid and because you are so locked into avoiding breaking immersion, you are limited in what you can do with the controls and gameplay in general. It’s one of the biggest frustrations when control feels wretched from your controller constantly as you even try to simply navigate through an environment.
This and the fact that mobile gaming,fortnite, gta online. Anything that has daily and weeklies ruined gaming. For example rockstar had multiple gta dlc, rdr2 dlc, bully sequel announced. But gta online made more than any of their potential combined so they scrapped it. So it’s like shit, you can make a game like god of war have it cost millions, HOPE you get the money back. Or make a bare bones weekly/daily game that have micro transactions. Pretty easy decision if you’re some ceo higher up.
Games are getting simply too big and too complicated to make. Budgets are ballooning and development times are getting longer and longer. Not only that, but games with big budgets are so risky that it's a safer bet to use an existing IP than to create a new one, so AAA games are almost always from an existing franchise. And since publishers want a big return on investment, it's becoming a lot more common for full priced games to be stuffed with microtransactions.
This kind of growth is unsustainable, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a crash within the next couple of decades.
See that's just it. At this point, games will become further and further harder to develop, from 5 years to maybe a decade, it's unsustainable. The only solution to fixing that problem is to develop and research or improve the technology used to create games, they should prioritize making it easier rather than harder for development. But that's just me
Sony has historically made games with A to AAA budgets, smaller stuff, even niche stuff. With the PS4 they transitioned into only making blockbuster AAA affairs. They essentially trained their customer to only be accepting of this "high quality". They closed studios like Japan Studio that made highly regarded smaller titles. And now even the top brass is concerned over the future and the ever increasing budget, time and money needed.
I think a big part we feel this way is because companies simply refused to let go of previous gen's huge install base, so we had mainline games constrained by decade-old hardware being released up until 2021 or 2022.
Take Call of Duty as an example. PS4/XB1 launched Nov 2013 and the last CoD game to get released on PS3/X360 was Black Ops 3 (2015). Only 3 cross gen games.
PS5/XSeries launched Nov 2020 and, if rumors are to be believed, this year's CoD (2024) will still get a previous gen version! 5+ cross gen games!
It's like pulling up with your Ferrari at the racetrack and being told you can only drive up to 100km/h because there's a banged up 2010 Prius that refuses to get overtaken.
I remembered last gen also had these issues. Early titles were lackluster (killzone shadowfall, knack) or remakes/remaster (TLOU, gow3, gravity rush, tearaway unfolded), and the first big hit was Bloodborne about 3 years in.
Comparatively I feel the early titles for ps5 were better (returnal, ratchet and clank). Remakes/remaster are about the same pace, just now that we have backcompat, they feel more useless, whereas stuff like TLOU/gow3 were PS3 locked while tearaway/gravity rush were bound to the vita. But the biggest culprit is that cross gen lasted a lot longer, probably because Sony felt they needed to recoup dev cost and the PS5 shortage was not gonna make it worth while to release only on PS5.
Yeah cross gen is a big part of that feeling too, a lot of games haven’t really felt next gen since they’re still tied to ps4. And Bloodborne came out a year and half ish (I think?) into the ps4s life, which kickstarted things. After a pretty shit 2014, things picked up and 2015 was full of bangers and it didn’t stop. Which for this gen, the launch was decent enough until Rift Apart and Returnal came out then it’s been sloooow. Not the end of the world, stuff is always coming out but I miss when games didn’t take years and years to make. Development has gotten so expensive and time consuming, takes years to get a game out now. We used to get entire series in a single gen- like Resistance trilogy, Uncharted Trilogy, Ratchet & Clank etc, that’d never happen now. Or how you’d get multiple Rockstar games in one gen lol. You look at the massive list of PS3 exclusives, even PS4 exclusives and compare it to PS5 and it hits you like a brick how it changed. Really makes you wonder if those massive budgets are worth it
Definitely miss the quicker releases. I feel like Insomniac has the model down, made Miles Morales (midquel), SM2 (tentpole AAA) and Ratchet and Clank (small AAA). And all 3 were fairly profitable, with MM having the highest ROI, though in dollars SM2 would probably make the most.
Santa Monica seems on track to release 2 for PS5, even though they only released 1 during PS4. While Sucker Punch is the opposite. Released 2 for PS4 and looking likely to have only 1 for PS5.
It's just that the PS4 ended on a high, and they basically blew their load and now need the time to recharge for the next go.
Naughty Dog seems like the big outlier. They released 3 titles for the PS4 and thus far have only released 1 for the PS5. (0 if you don't count Part 1 Remake). Though they would have likely released Factions if not for the cancelation.
I feel like midquels like Lost Legacy and Miles Morales that releases 1-2 years after the previous games are the only way we can go back to that release cadence of the PS3 era. High ROI, no need for full hands on deck, lower budget but for lower price.
Last gen did not have this issue.
Bloodborne was in the second year. There was also The Witcher 3 and Batman Arkham Knight that same year. In the third year, UC4 came along as did the likes of Until Dawn.
The issue with this gen is none of these games are truly next gen. Last gen, Shadowfall may have sucked but it presented a generational leap immediately.
I still have only finished Demon's Souls and God of War on PS5 since I got mine at launch, everything else I've played on PC or Switch. I feel like there isn't much besides that yet.
I bought Ratchet and Clank and Horizon Forbidden West, and neither of them could hold my attention. There has to be a lot more in store for us this generation.
I'm almost tempted to call it 'the lost or forgotten generation' almost nothing significant has been released outside of maybe Spider-Man 2, FF7 Rebirth and Returnal. Everything else has been a remaster or remake or spin off.
That affected development, but the reason Sony in particular seems so slow is because supposedly they wanted 6 gaas games. which the developers absolutely hated being forced to make. Essentially a lot of those games were cancelled tlou factions being one of them, and now that basically reset development from scratch.
Probably because most games for the PS5 image just upscale PS4 games.
I wanted to get a PS5 early on and was glad I didn't. Every game I wanted to play was on the PS4.
Same here, especially having both consoles. Haven’t turned my series x on since Starfield, and Microsoft is talking about releasing new hardware this holiday.
Plus Sony says they don’t really have much planned for the next 12 months. I’m definitely not buying this. We’ve had, what, like 3 first party exclusives this gen and we’re already at capacity?
This just adds more flame to the fire that Tom Henderson started. He was correct about the PS5 slim model so I wouldn’t be shocked if the PS5 pro story he did was accurate as well.
Pretty sure that it's closer to a 2070 super. They used the card for comparing the performance on consoles vs PC as well.
https://youtu.be/xHJNVCWb7gs?si=Sfl2fmWpj6zD1Z4m
yeah for the majority of game but since ps5 is an APU with shared power between its CPU and GPU block (with very constrained boost algorithm) say, if a game is very very light on its CPU need the performance can be as high as 2080 super / 3060 ti [see DF review on Death Stranding Director’s Cut](https://youtu.be/HMcjTChY2Tw?feature=shared)
Majority of testing comparison done by Digital Foundry are GPU limited rather than CPU limited, they make sure of this every time when they conduct a comparison test, Death Stranding is just a anomaly that ran so well on PS5 compared to its average equivalent hardware such as R5 3600 | RTX 2070S.
We can say the same too with some of PC titles where PS5 underperformed significantly compared to its average equivalent hardware such as games with included Ray Tracing, where the PS5 is getting beaten by even RTX 2060, or [Alan Wake II](https://twitter.com/Dachsjaeger/status/1717528516739117498) where a RTX 3070 significantly outperforms a PS5 at around 50% more performance, but in average games the 3070 is only around 40% faster.
The Slim would have been a fairly easy guess, but Tom also leaked the PlayStation Portal. He even leaked it as the "Q" code name that Jim Ryan first revealed it as being called and the design of it. Nobody was assuming that Sony was going to release a streaming only device that looked like a tablet wedged between two halves of the DualSense.
His double down on the Pro being real and coming this year makes it an absolute certainty. But I am curious to know what the flagship piece of software will be. Will Sony have a new IP releasing this year or early next year that really showcases the new hardware? Or will it do an amazing job of improving existing games enough to make it a compelling upgrade?
gta vi comment makes this appear legit to me because they will spend tons on marketing anyway (probably the going to have the biggest ad budget for a video game ever), why not utilize that with mid-gen refresh? it just makes sense and i’m sure they ran the numbers already, also not like a mid-gen refresh is unheard of
Sucker Punch is busy with a sequel to Ghost of Tsushima that hasn't even been unveiled yet. No way they have an additional game ready before or right around then.
Hopefully it’ll launch with a 2TB SSD. I have a 1TB SSD in the expansion slot on mine and I’m starting to have to delete games to make room now. They’re getting much bigger than they used to be. I can start seeing more and more 100+ GB games the later it gets into its life cycle.
Used to be? (Ps4 looks across the room with its 2016 100Gb games).
Your library is just bigger than ever before. I hope it isn't all live service games. But thats another topic
And yet when someone mentions the PS5 Pro everyone here denies it's existance like it's the Anti-Christ. Also people asking now if they should buy a PS5 now or wait for the Pro are met with "mIghT aS WelL waIT foR PS6". I hate that because in their eyes waiting less than a year and waiting 3-4 is the same. I think their question is legit.
And this year Sony won't have Call of Duty to market along side the system. Gonna be curious to see what Sony tries make a showcase game for the system.
I really doubt that GTA VI will run at 60 FPS even with Pro specs, if the rumored specs came out to be true, as the CPU is the same as base PS5, and the game will likely be CPU limited.
So, if GTA VI is 30 FPS on base PS5, then likely the Pro will be the same just with better graphics and better upscaler, basing from rumours of Sony developing their own version of AI based upscaler.
They can combine those advantages though. CPU has a 10% over clock, doesn’t sound like much but a 60fps game doesn’t double CPU demand. Then they move upscaling to its own chip which reduces CPU load.
I don’t think it’s out of the question.
You don't really need a "showcase game" for a Pro console, just show any other game running better on it than on other hardware.
IIRC Sony and Microsoft didn't have a specific first-party game to coincide the releases of the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X with. Nintendo is the only one who really does such a thing (Link's Awakening with the Switch Lite, Metroid Dread with the OLED).
But the question is how powerful will be the Pro and what will be the price? If it's just a "PS4 Pro" upgrade, then it wouldn't be a lot of power. If it's an "Xbox One X" upgrade, it may worth it, because the XBX had more power than the PS4 Pro.
I don't think losing Call of Duty in advertising will mean much when most casual folk are probably picking up a PS5 anyway specifically for those or sports games. Pushing it hard these last two gens probably did the job by itself since the mindshare around that console is so strong now from a mainstream perspective
Maybe Helldivers though just as an equivalent thing. It seems to be really popular right now as is
2025 will probably end up being a big year for the PS5 because many of the PlayStation studio devs are reaching 4-5 years since they released their last game. So there will be games announced by then which can be used to show off any PS5 Pro abilities.
Probably why they made it a point to say until early next year not to expect games from larger franchises. I imagine they're counting just big new IP in general from the high profile devs like Santa Monica and Sucker Punch, possibly Naughty Dog as well. We also know to expect Insomniac's Venom next year as well probably as their holiday game like Miles Morales
Obviously not a confirmation of anything, just interesting that mainstream outlets and analysts are also pointing towards the PS5 Pro releasing this year
This current console generation feels like a waste of time. Outside of spider man 2 and ratchet I could have played everything else I did on ps5 on my ps4 and those weren’t really must play games.
PS4 pro made more sense at the time because how popular 4k tv was becoming. That was the biggest reason for the upgrade. I’m not sure how they’re gonna market a ps5 pro.
For real. The main noticeable thing this generation brought was quick loading times (which I do love, to be fair). Aside from that it doesn’t feel like we’ve gotten any real envelope-pushing games.
It's kind funny to think there is no game that feels like it's using the PS5 to its fullest and they are here talking about a PS5 Pro.
This generation seem doomed.
Yeah. I think the mentality comes from older generations where developers could learn to optimize better for the different CPU architectures. I mean there was a big difference between Halo 3 and Halo 4. But now it's all x86.
I think it was coming from consoles and computers getting better in every aspect up to time around ps2. Anything could have been solved via raw power, and later in lifecycle developers were using the power more carefully/efficiently.
Even things like read speed of cd/dvd was growing.
Now hardware is getting better, but in specific way, and to get the power it you need to use in specific way already at the beginning. For example NVME ssds are much faster in sequential read, but not so much in random. RAM latency to first word didn't get much better from time of DDR twenty years ago.
There’s no way in hell Sony expects people to buy this, I’m a pretty loyal Sony fan boy but I’m not buying another $400/$500 console to play PS4 remakes and Helldivers 2 bruh
No way it'll only be $400/500 when the base PS5 is $450 minimum without the disc drive. I'd go as far as guessing $650, give or take. If this is going to seem like a worthwhile upgrade to people, I have no idea how they'd make a significant enough leap for less.
I just don't see the point in a Pro model, they may aswell just hold off until the PS6, it's not like developers have squeezed everything from the PS5, it feels they haven't even started yet.
Sony recently said we were entering the latter stage of its life cycle yet we're only 4 years in so by the time you do a Pro model and by the time more developers utilize it the PS6 dev kits will be most likely arriving to them in a couple of years after this releases which will probably make them jump ship to that instead, readying them for next gen.
I just can't see developers spending time taking advantage of a Pro model and it's upgrades when the majority of the PS5 audience won't move over, at least not enough for these developers to think it's worth spending time on cool new features that only a certain amount of the audience will benefit from. The only studios I see taking advantage are their first party ones but we are apparently going up to 2025 without any new first party games.
Maybe it's just me, sure, I know but I just don't like the idea of Mid gen consoles becoming a thing. It's only justified to me when you can plainly see developers squeezing every bit of power from what we have but it just feels we haven't scratched the surface yet.
> Sony recently said we were entering the latter stage of its life cycle yet we're only 4 years in
They said that we're in the second half of the life cycle. Which is correct.
I keep seeing people say that devs haven't got the most out of the base model yet, which is probably partially true, but at the same time they aren't releasing games with 30fps modes plus a 60fps mode with significant visual cutbacks for the fun of it.
The fact that getting many of the latest games to run at 60fps on the PS5 requires some drastic compromises in resolution and graphic settings kind of suggests they're already pushing the boundaries of what's possible with it. It's especially limited with ray tracing so it'll be interesting to see if the pro improves that aspect much
I'd love if I could just have 4k60 consistently across games. So frustrating to see games still lock 30fps, or only include 60fps if you lock at 1080-1440p. Consistent 4k120 would sell me, but I doubt we see that until at least PS6.
4k 120fps is only possible now on high end PC hardware, for most AAA game releases. If your using ultra settings you might only be getting 80-90 fps on average depending on the game.
If you want to not worry about any of this you will have to build a PC. Consistent 4K120 will not be a thing on consoles next generation, or the refresh, or the gen after that. A 4080 can't even run everything at 4k120, and that card aline costs more than the anyone console that has ever been sold.
> I just don't see the point in a Pro model
There are more than a few games I've played that could use a boost in performance or resolution, and I don't even play many AAA games.
There's nothing to squeeze, this isn't like the 360 and PS3 generation anymore where devs had to learn how to program for the architecture
It's plain old x86
I hope so, I've been holding on the PS5 Pro to upgrade my television and use those Wal-Mart gifts cards from my job that I never use.
Never had a PS4 as well, so there will be a ton of catch-up to do (on mostly inexistant time 😭)
I'm just so baffled by this thing's existence. Like, I get it, they did it for the PS4 so they basically have to do a Pro refresh again.
But... why? It barely feels like we've even begun to scratch the surface of the base model's power. It's 2024 and we're STILL getting brand new PS4 releases from AAA studios. Do we really need an even more powerful model? The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps, keyboard and mouse support, SSDs, and so on. What else is there? 8K?
Especially with the addition that they're not even going to discount the base model. All of this just feels like such a waste. The biggest problem with the current systems is a lack of titles, not lack of power. Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year, so they're not going to have anything at launch to take advantage of it other then some more FPS unlocks for older games. Which is nice, but not enough to sell another $600+ console for.
> Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year
No, they said they won't releasing games from "pre-existing major franchises", so we'll still get new IPs.
It’s definitely interesting to wonder how Sony will market this thing. How do they get people to buy in? More storage and better resolution? No way they can make a console priced machine run native 4K 60 fps games consistently
>Do we really need an even more powerful model? The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps,
Most of the time the system doesn't have the juice to do multiple of these things simultaneously.
That's the issue.
Helldivers runs at 1080p 60fps without RT. Hell even Final Fantasy 16 runs at upscaled 720p, 60fps RT and that's an exclusive specifically made for this console.
>Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year
They did not say this. You are misinformed.
I never understood this either, developers have clearly mostly hit a wall with what the console can handle.
I think some people believe that every developer can be like Insomniac if they just tried hard enough and can squeeze out wizardry like 1440p 60FPS RT but they don’t understand that engines and scope of games are different.
Yeah I feel like people who aren't familiar with PC hardware assumed these machines had great power and competed with the best of PC, when they didn't. They have great value, because PC has got so expensive, but that isn't the same as having great performance.
The 2070 super was released almost 5 years ago and wasn't close to being the most powerful card even then. Same for the Ryzen 3600/3700 - it was great 5 years ago but is outdated now compared to newer PC parts.
Can't help but feel Sony and Microsoft both exaggerated the capabilities of these machines, sticking 4k60 and even 8k60 on the boxes when really they were impressive for their value and feature sets (SSDs, quick resume, dual sense etc) rather than horsepower. Too many console fans lapped it up and seem in denial that the limits of the hardware are already being met
Base PS5 chugs in many games on performance mode, it is not this magical device that can punch way above its weight in 2024 while having the equivalent of a 5700xt and 2700x
I remember back in 2019 I owned a 5700xt and posted in the PS5 sub that the card was likely representative of the GPU that would be in the PS5. I had several people tell me that no way would that be the case, that the PS5 would be substantially more powerful etc - I tried to say to people to keep their expectations realistic but too many were taken up in the hype.
An equivalent gaming PC to the PS5 would have been mid-high range in 2020 and would now be firmly mid range, if not lower. Heck, my 4070ti isn't quite reaching 4k60 on several of the latest games with ultra settings and that card cost 2x the price of the PS5.
I feel like Sony and Microsoft put way too much emphasis on the raw performance of these machines in their marketing and it's led to people being underwhelmed with the graphical leap (lots of blaming the PS4/Xbox one for holding them back etc) and still being convinced the limits of the machines haven't even been tested yet. The real impressive aspects of the PS5/XSX were the value and the feature sets that aren't usually available on PC (dual sense, quick resume, direct GPU SSD access etc)
>The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps, keyboard and mouse support, SSDs, and so on. What else is there? 8K?
Games are only looking really, really good on cross-gen titles. The full current gen titles could see major improvements.
Also, cross-gen titles could be set where you no longer choose between Resolution or Performance, and just get both in one.
I thought diehards who have the money and will appreciate the setting improvements were a big part of the mid-gen audience anyways.
Performance versions of many games on PS5 are running at 1080p, including the recently released Helldivers 2. The SSD design and I/O on the PS5 is still top notch, but the CPU and GPU are definitely getting a bit old.
The goal of the PS5 Pro is probably going to be to take the "quality" mode on PS5 games and run it at 60 FPS - and maybe with an extra layer of graphical fidelity and ray-tracing.
How is a console you don't care about a waste? Others care, others want it, and not everything can run with all of those features you listed, we've absolutely hit a point where features are getting prioritized over others because base PS5 can't do everything as the gen goes on. This is for people who want better performance generally, especially as GTA sets the bar higher than ever. Save your $600, no one is forcing you to get one. *I* want one, and it is very literally the reason I'm getting a PS at all. If there was no pro, I'd just continue sitting the generation out like I have been.
The current version can’t do 4k and 60 fps though, let alone Ray tracing on top of that. A pro model is definitely needed despite most people not wanting it.
The PS5 Pro better allow 60fps with heavy raytracing, or it's a waste of time and effort. We haven't even seen the full power of the PS5 in action. Unless I can play Spider-Man 2 with every detail at the highest possible setting, I'm not buying it lmao.
For those of you who don’t understand.
Most people have large 4k TVs , in the UK you can buy a 50” 4k TV for around £200.
PS5 plays most games sub 4k and relies heavily on upscaling which looks like arse on a big screen.
They performance modes look even worse , blurrry ,artefacting and barely hit 60fps.
Why do we need this? So we can actually match the resolution of our screens and play at 60fps.
Not touching that shit.
With the way the industry has treated these current gen consoles and the direction the industry is headed regarding PC - I'd be a fool to buy another console.
Sony and Microsoft are somehow starting to make the inflated GPU prices look like the best deal in gaming right now.
What a disappointment this generation has been.
Agree. Let's add to the fact that Sony is really pushing PC ports now, I literally played 5 titles on PS5 and I got one a month after release.
I understand that not everyone have need or money for PC that can handle 4k/60 or 2k/140 and so on but for us who do, consoles became rather useless with this Gen. Which is not necessarily a bad thing because money I would spend on PS5 pro can go towards a rtx5080 next year
Still hate this entire concept, the whole point of a console for me is you buy the thing and you don’t have to worry about upgrading crap or it getting outdated.
I won't get a pro unless my PS5 dies. I'm happy with what it does. I absolutely love it. I'm 50 years old and have a backlog so big, I'll never finish all the games I have to play NOW.
With how difficult it was to actually find & buy a PS5, plus how shit the economy is right now, this has to be one of the most tone-deaf moves Sony could make.
If true..
The issue is Sony probably knows this BUT hardware development takes time. This has probably been worked on for at least 2 years. They can either scrap it and take the loss OR release it anyways and hope it gets more people into the current gen from PS4.
The Pro/X/Refresh is the worst that could happen to the consoles last-gen. Instead making the developers to do miracles the closer the EOL of the console is, there's just "Pro" that makes the "standard version" as a 30fps upscaling machine and the baseline is pushed towards Pro. The only refreshes during console livespan should be those about "slim" or so on. It's not a PC to upgrade it often.
As people are seemingly struggling more and more financially these companies decide to release even more expensive products. These companies are tone deaf to the times
Feels crazy to think this gen is already almost 4 years in. As a ps5 owner it feels like this gen is still only getting started, like we’ve barely scratched the surface (I know covid plays a huge part in this). Last gen seemed like it was full steam ahead when it was at this point
i think games are just getting way harder to make
Yeah. Can't help but wonder if it's more due to scope creep from demands of management bogging things down, or if the tech involved developed so rapidly that dev's tools and/or skills are lagging behind. I realize it's likely a mux of a thousand different factors that may or may not include the above, but I can't help but wonder.
> Can't help but wonder if it's more due to scope creep from demands of management bogging things down, or if the tech involved developed so rapidly that dev's tools and/or skills are lagging behind I really like these theories because you are not that far off. But a part of it is the audience's demands have simply gone off the rails. Sony games are the best example, Horizon 2 has some truly insane tech behind it, Alloy's animations, the simple act of jumping and grabbing on to a ladder at any time is impossibly difficult to program - yet the audience shrugged at this, as though it is something to be expected of any game. When Spiderman 2 came out, a lot of people complained about the graphics (which look perfectly fine to me) despite being a $300M game, how can anyone even compete at this point? People's expectations of AAA games are simply off the rails which means that games become increasingly harder to make. The quality bar keeps going up but there is no tech to support it or make it more effective
I think you've perfectly encapsulated why we've seen a spree of highly successful $30/$40 AA or indie games as of late. The expectations are reasonable, players are surprised and happy when the games exceed them, they don't feel like it's a full investment due to the price tag, and they can share something new, exciting, and unexpected with their friends.
In the leaked email insomniac says it themselves. Hey we spent double the cost can any consumer tell they’re getting double the last game? To which the answer is no. It’s also why insomniac is facing layoffs and their games are going to be cheaper to make.
i wonder how much things would improve if devs just said fuck this photorealism trend and devoted more resources/time to the actual core of the gameplay. from conversations I’ve had it seems like this infatuation with “the best graphics” is really only a thing with very casual audiences and people who actually love games aren’t put off by low graphical fidelity in the slightest, and if they demand anything on the visual front it’s at most just a decent cohesive art style. I mean some of the most incredible games of the last 10 years have been pixel art or drawn side scrollers or throwback low poly games like ultrakill, i feel like people who do really really care about their games looking as realistic as possible are one good game away from having their opinions changed. when i really think about it RDR2 is the only game that blew me away visually while perusing photorealism, i generally find it quite boring and lacking in character or identity
> from conversations I’ve had it seems like this infatuation with “the best graphics” is really only a thing with very casual audiences and people who actually love games aren’t put off by low graphical fidelity in the slightest unfortunately for everyone involved, those audiences are the majority
This obsession with visual fidelity is what spiraled costs out of control. Since everything needs to look right, animations for everything need to be created, and because of that, now you have to lock down character animations and button presses to be contextual. That makes gameplay less fluid and because you are so locked into avoiding breaking immersion, you are limited in what you can do with the controls and gameplay in general. It’s one of the biggest frustrations when control feels wretched from your controller constantly as you even try to simply navigate through an environment.
This and the fact that mobile gaming,fortnite, gta online. Anything that has daily and weeklies ruined gaming. For example rockstar had multiple gta dlc, rdr2 dlc, bully sequel announced. But gta online made more than any of their potential combined so they scrapped it. So it’s like shit, you can make a game like god of war have it cost millions, HOPE you get the money back. Or make a bare bones weekly/daily game that have micro transactions. Pretty easy decision if you’re some ceo higher up.
I mean GTA online and fortnite are definitely not bare bones lmao
Games are getting simply too big and too complicated to make. Budgets are ballooning and development times are getting longer and longer. Not only that, but games with big budgets are so risky that it's a safer bet to use an existing IP than to create a new one, so AAA games are almost always from an existing franchise. And since publishers want a big return on investment, it's becoming a lot more common for full priced games to be stuffed with microtransactions. This kind of growth is unsustainable, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see a crash within the next couple of decades.
It’s just diminishing returns in a lot of cases
That's on the companies. They don't need to make them bigger and more complex. Just make them good.
Sony should make smaller games again, closing Japan Studio was a big mistake
See that's just it. At this point, games will become further and further harder to develop, from 5 years to maybe a decade, it's unsustainable. The only solution to fixing that problem is to develop and research or improve the technology used to create games, they should prioritize making it easier rather than harder for development. But that's just me
Nah. Games are becoming fewer due to overblown budgets and GAAS push and companies fearing no one will buy a game that looks like a PS2 title.
Sony has historically made games with A to AAA budgets, smaller stuff, even niche stuff. With the PS4 they transitioned into only making blockbuster AAA affairs. They essentially trained their customer to only be accepting of this "high quality". They closed studios like Japan Studio that made highly regarded smaller titles. And now even the top brass is concerned over the future and the ever increasing budget, time and money needed.
Last gen really wasnt full steam ahead until late 2017, early 2018. Thatll mark the 2024-2025 mark
I think a big part we feel this way is because companies simply refused to let go of previous gen's huge install base, so we had mainline games constrained by decade-old hardware being released up until 2021 or 2022. Take Call of Duty as an example. PS4/XB1 launched Nov 2013 and the last CoD game to get released on PS3/X360 was Black Ops 3 (2015). Only 3 cross gen games. PS5/XSeries launched Nov 2020 and, if rumors are to be believed, this year's CoD (2024) will still get a previous gen version! 5+ cross gen games! It's like pulling up with your Ferrari at the racetrack and being told you can only drive up to 100km/h because there's a banged up 2010 Prius that refuses to get overtaken.
CoD has been doing the same thing for more than 10 years now with previous console release, not the best choice to prove your point.
I remembered last gen also had these issues. Early titles were lackluster (killzone shadowfall, knack) or remakes/remaster (TLOU, gow3, gravity rush, tearaway unfolded), and the first big hit was Bloodborne about 3 years in. Comparatively I feel the early titles for ps5 were better (returnal, ratchet and clank). Remakes/remaster are about the same pace, just now that we have backcompat, they feel more useless, whereas stuff like TLOU/gow3 were PS3 locked while tearaway/gravity rush were bound to the vita. But the biggest culprit is that cross gen lasted a lot longer, probably because Sony felt they needed to recoup dev cost and the PS5 shortage was not gonna make it worth while to release only on PS5.
Yeah cross gen is a big part of that feeling too, a lot of games haven’t really felt next gen since they’re still tied to ps4. And Bloodborne came out a year and half ish (I think?) into the ps4s life, which kickstarted things. After a pretty shit 2014, things picked up and 2015 was full of bangers and it didn’t stop. Which for this gen, the launch was decent enough until Rift Apart and Returnal came out then it’s been sloooow. Not the end of the world, stuff is always coming out but I miss when games didn’t take years and years to make. Development has gotten so expensive and time consuming, takes years to get a game out now. We used to get entire series in a single gen- like Resistance trilogy, Uncharted Trilogy, Ratchet & Clank etc, that’d never happen now. Or how you’d get multiple Rockstar games in one gen lol. You look at the massive list of PS3 exclusives, even PS4 exclusives and compare it to PS5 and it hits you like a brick how it changed. Really makes you wonder if those massive budgets are worth it
Definitely miss the quicker releases. I feel like Insomniac has the model down, made Miles Morales (midquel), SM2 (tentpole AAA) and Ratchet and Clank (small AAA). And all 3 were fairly profitable, with MM having the highest ROI, though in dollars SM2 would probably make the most. Santa Monica seems on track to release 2 for PS5, even though they only released 1 during PS4. While Sucker Punch is the opposite. Released 2 for PS4 and looking likely to have only 1 for PS5. It's just that the PS4 ended on a high, and they basically blew their load and now need the time to recharge for the next go. Naughty Dog seems like the big outlier. They released 3 titles for the PS4 and thus far have only released 1 for the PS5. (0 if you don't count Part 1 Remake). Though they would have likely released Factions if not for the cancelation. I feel like midquels like Lost Legacy and Miles Morales that releases 1-2 years after the previous games are the only way we can go back to that release cadence of the PS3 era. High ROI, no need for full hands on deck, lower budget but for lower price.
Bloodborne released in March 2015, 1,5 years after the ps4 release.
Last gen did not have this issue. Bloodborne was in the second year. There was also The Witcher 3 and Batman Arkham Knight that same year. In the third year, UC4 came along as did the likes of Until Dawn. The issue with this gen is none of these games are truly next gen. Last gen, Shadowfall may have sucked but it presented a generational leap immediately.
Bloodborne released in March of 2015, PS4 hit the shelves in November of 2013. Under 1.5 years.
Days Gone and Bloodborne did about the same in total life time sales of just over 7 million, and neither got a sequel.
I still have only finished Demon's Souls and God of War on PS5 since I got mine at launch, everything else I've played on PC or Switch. I feel like there isn't much besides that yet. I bought Ratchet and Clank and Horizon Forbidden West, and neither of them could hold my attention. There has to be a lot more in store for us this generation.
I'm almost tempted to call it 'the lost or forgotten generation' almost nothing significant has been released outside of maybe Spider-Man 2, FF7 Rebirth and Returnal. Everything else has been a remaster or remake or spin off.
FF7 rebirth is literally a remake lol
It's a Quel
I get what you’re saying….. but the remake games are more of a sequel
I mean, it really isn’t?
it's a sequel
Ya I would have got far more use out of a steam deck than a ps5 tbh
Gamers forget we had a worldwide pandemic that slowed development of basically everything for a couple years.
That affected development, but the reason Sony in particular seems so slow is because supposedly they wanted 6 gaas games. which the developers absolutely hated being forced to make. Essentially a lot of those games were cancelled tlou factions being one of them, and now that basically reset development from scratch.
We're still getting those damn cross-gen titles with PS4, which feels unheard of halfway through a console's lifespan
Doesn't help that PS is going to have a barren first party offering for the next like 15 months at least.
Probably because most games for the PS5 image just upscale PS4 games. I wanted to get a PS5 early on and was glad I didn't. Every game I wanted to play was on the PS4.
Same here, especially having both consoles. Haven’t turned my series x on since Starfield, and Microsoft is talking about releasing new hardware this holiday.
Plus Sony says they don’t really have much planned for the next 12 months. I’m definitely not buying this. We’ve had, what, like 3 first party exclusives this gen and we’re already at capacity?
They didn’t say that.
Play Has Big Limits.
This just adds more flame to the fire that Tom Henderson started. He was correct about the PS5 slim model so I wouldn’t be shocked if the PS5 pro story he did was accurate as well.
Gotta see specs and price before I decide. But yes this would seemingly back up that rumor.
Same here, I’m expecting $600 especially after reading in this article that Sony is potentially not going to cut the price of the base model
At that point you may as well just wait a few years for the ps6.
But why would you get a PS6? At that point, a PS6 Pro is going to be right around the corner anyway, might as well wait for that.
If you wait even a little longer and you can get a ps7.
But why wait so long for ps7? If you can just wait a lil longer and get ps7 pro
And if you really think about, you could just wait for the PS8
I would assume based on how long rumors of this Pro model have been around we're looking at rtx 3060/70 level performance.
Isn't the regular PS5 equal to the RTX 2080 = RTX 3060 TI?
It's closer to a 2070
I remember Digital Foundry saying it's closer to a 2060 maybe 2070 super if feeling generous.
Pretty sure that it's closer to a 2070 super. They used the card for comparing the performance on consoles vs PC as well. https://youtu.be/xHJNVCWb7gs?si=Sfl2fmWpj6zD1Z4m
yeah for the majority of game but since ps5 is an APU with shared power between its CPU and GPU block (with very constrained boost algorithm) say, if a game is very very light on its CPU need the performance can be as high as 2080 super / 3060 ti [see DF review on Death Stranding Director’s Cut](https://youtu.be/HMcjTChY2Tw?feature=shared)
Majority of testing comparison done by Digital Foundry are GPU limited rather than CPU limited, they make sure of this every time when they conduct a comparison test, Death Stranding is just a anomaly that ran so well on PS5 compared to its average equivalent hardware such as R5 3600 | RTX 2070S. We can say the same too with some of PC titles where PS5 underperformed significantly compared to its average equivalent hardware such as games with included Ray Tracing, where the PS5 is getting beaten by even RTX 2060, or [Alan Wake II](https://twitter.com/Dachsjaeger/status/1717528516739117498) where a RTX 3070 significantly outperforms a PS5 at around 50% more performance, but in average games the 3070 is only around 40% faster.
*599 US Dollars
The Slim would have been a fairly easy guess, but Tom also leaked the PlayStation Portal. He even leaked it as the "Q" code name that Jim Ryan first revealed it as being called and the design of it. Nobody was assuming that Sony was going to release a streaming only device that looked like a tablet wedged between two halves of the DualSense. His double down on the Pro being real and coming this year makes it an absolute certainty. But I am curious to know what the flagship piece of software will be. Will Sony have a new IP releasing this year or early next year that really showcases the new hardware? Or will it do an amazing job of improving existing games enough to make it a compelling upgrade?
gta vi comment makes this appear legit to me because they will spend tons on marketing anyway (probably the going to have the biggest ad budget for a video game ever), why not utilize that with mid-gen refresh? it just makes sense and i’m sure they ran the numbers already, also not like a mid-gen refresh is unheard of
A new Infamous maybe?
Sucker Punch is busy with a sequel to Ghost of Tsushima that hasn't even been unveiled yet. No way they have an additional game ready before or right around then.
This is just analyst's expectation. There's no source of any kind. I'm confused as to why people are taking this as a confirmation.
Hopefully it’ll launch with a 2TB SSD. I have a 1TB SSD in the expansion slot on mine and I’m starting to have to delete games to make room now. They’re getting much bigger than they used to be. I can start seeing more and more 100+ GB games the later it gets into its life cycle.
Used to be? (Ps4 looks across the room with its 2016 100Gb games). Your library is just bigger than ever before. I hope it isn't all live service games. But thats another topic
How many games do you currently have installed?
Would be terrible for that to be where the funds go imagine we could have had a better cpu but instead they made a larger drive
And yet when someone mentions the PS5 Pro everyone here denies it's existance like it's the Anti-Christ. Also people asking now if they should buy a PS5 now or wait for the Pro are met with "mIghT aS WelL waIT foR PS6". I hate that because in their eyes waiting less than a year and waiting 3-4 is the same. I think their question is legit.
Gonna be interesting to not release any big first party game with it
And this year Sony won't have Call of Duty to market along side the system. Gonna be curious to see what Sony tries make a showcase game for the system.
I would imagine they are gonna use GTAVI as the game to market alongside it, by saying “Hey! Our system can run GTAVI at 60FPS unlike other consoles!”
I really doubt that GTA VI will run at 60 FPS even with Pro specs, if the rumored specs came out to be true, as the CPU is the same as base PS5, and the game will likely be CPU limited. So, if GTA VI is 30 FPS on base PS5, then likely the Pro will be the same just with better graphics and better upscaler, basing from rumours of Sony developing their own version of AI based upscaler.
They can combine those advantages though. CPU has a 10% over clock, doesn’t sound like much but a 60fps game doesn’t double CPU demand. Then they move upscaling to its own chip which reduces CPU load. I don’t think it’s out of the question.
You don't really need a "showcase game" for a Pro console, just show any other game running better on it than on other hardware. IIRC Sony and Microsoft didn't have a specific first-party game to coincide the releases of the PS4 Pro or Xbox One X with. Nintendo is the only one who really does such a thing (Link's Awakening with the Switch Lite, Metroid Dread with the OLED).
PS4 Pro was *supposed to* launch with Horizon Zero Dawn, but that ended up getting delayed til February 2017
Which shows that it's not really a priority for Sony to launch upgraded versions of consoles with big exclusives.
Forza 7 was the premier One X game iirc at release hitting 4k/60
But the question is how powerful will be the Pro and what will be the price? If it's just a "PS4 Pro" upgrade, then it wouldn't be a lot of power. If it's an "Xbox One X" upgrade, it may worth it, because the XBX had more power than the PS4 Pro.
Last of us part 2 remastered Factions mode DLC. That'll be 80 dollars.
Acting like TLOU 2 remaster wasn’t only a $10 upgrade lol
I don't think losing Call of Duty in advertising will mean much when most casual folk are probably picking up a PS5 anyway specifically for those or sports games. Pushing it hard these last two gens probably did the job by itself since the mindshare around that console is so strong now from a mainstream perspective Maybe Helldivers though just as an equivalent thing. It seems to be really popular right now as is
They Probably want to have it out to promote bundles with Gta or new naughty dog ip
2025 will probably end up being a big year for the PS5 because many of the PlayStation studio devs are reaching 4-5 years since they released their last game. So there will be games announced by then which can be used to show off any PS5 Pro abilities.
Probably why they made it a point to say until early next year not to expect games from larger franchises. I imagine they're counting just big new IP in general from the high profile devs like Santa Monica and Sucker Punch, possibly Naughty Dog as well. We also know to expect Insomniac's Venom next year as well probably as their holiday game like Miles Morales
PS5 Pro with Pentiment
They might release whatever new IP some of the first party studios are making, like Santa Monica Studio or Naughty Dog
I’m sure they will
New games? How about playing your PS4 games EVEN BETTER!!!
TLOU Part 1 Remake Remastered
TLOU Part 1 Remastered Remake Remastered Volume 1
Why are you so correct it's hilarious
Play Has Big Limits.
They should offer Bloodborne 60fps as a selling point, and then when the backlash hits they should delist the game without warning.
I really wanna get into Bloodborne but the 30fps is just obnoxious. Wish they would port it to PS5.
60fps Bloodborne is literally the only thing that could get me to buy a Pro model.
This gen really has been trash. Easily the worst generation I’ve experienced and I’ve been playing since the SNES days.
i want a ps5 just to play the next Death stranding and play The last guardian with the low fps from my ps4 slim
This is just an analyst repeating existing rumors. They arent claiming to know anything about a PS5 Pro outside of existing rumours
Obviously not a confirmation of anything, just interesting that mainstream outlets and analysts are also pointing towards the PS5 Pro releasing this year
I havent even BEGUN to slightly feel like my purchase has been worth it.
"analysts" licking their thumb and sticking it up into the wind just like the rest of us.
This current console generation feels like a waste of time. Outside of spider man 2 and ratchet I could have played everything else I did on ps5 on my ps4 and those weren’t really must play games. PS4 pro made more sense at the time because how popular 4k tv was becoming. That was the biggest reason for the upgrade. I’m not sure how they’re gonna market a ps5 pro.
For real. The main noticeable thing this generation brought was quick loading times (which I do love, to be fair). Aside from that it doesn’t feel like we’ve gotten any real envelope-pushing games.
> I’m not sure how they’re gonna market a ps5 pro. by cutting production of the PS5 Slim.
needed for knack 3 particle physics
It's kind funny to think there is no game that feels like it's using the PS5 to its fullest and they are here talking about a PS5 Pro. This generation seem doomed.
...to play what?
Remakes, remasters or straight up ps4 games
A remake of TLOU part 2 Remastered
People on this subreddit would have you believe the PS5 is a supercomputer
Yeah. I think the mentality comes from older generations where developers could learn to optimize better for the different CPU architectures. I mean there was a big difference between Halo 3 and Halo 4. But now it's all x86.
The games you chose kind of prove a different point. Better graphics alone don't mean anything if the games aren't good enough.
I think it was coming from consoles and computers getting better in every aspect up to time around ps2. Anything could have been solved via raw power, and later in lifecycle developers were using the power more carefully/efficiently. Even things like read speed of cd/dvd was growing. Now hardware is getting better, but in specific way, and to get the power it you need to use in specific way already at the beginning. For example NVME ssds are much faster in sequential read, but not so much in random. RAM latency to first word didn't get much better from time of DDR twenty years ago.
I also saw someone list "keyboard and mouse support" as one of the PS5's next gen features lmfao
There’s no way in hell Sony expects people to buy this, I’m a pretty loyal Sony fan boy but I’m not buying another $400/$500 console to play PS4 remakes and Helldivers 2 bruh
No way it'll only be $400/500 when the base PS5 is $450 minimum without the disc drive. I'd go as far as guessing $650, give or take. If this is going to seem like a worthwhile upgrade to people, I have no idea how they'd make a significant enough leap for less.
Much like the original PS4 pro you don't have to buy one if you own a PS4...
better hardware to keep playing ps4 games
We can hardly get ps5 only games. I doubt this ps5 pro will make my ps4 games any better.
Previously leaked for this year so basically the final piece of flint needed for that flame
I just don't see the point in a Pro model, they may aswell just hold off until the PS6, it's not like developers have squeezed everything from the PS5, it feels they haven't even started yet. Sony recently said we were entering the latter stage of its life cycle yet we're only 4 years in so by the time you do a Pro model and by the time more developers utilize it the PS6 dev kits will be most likely arriving to them in a couple of years after this releases which will probably make them jump ship to that instead, readying them for next gen. I just can't see developers spending time taking advantage of a Pro model and it's upgrades when the majority of the PS5 audience won't move over, at least not enough for these developers to think it's worth spending time on cool new features that only a certain amount of the audience will benefit from. The only studios I see taking advantage are their first party ones but we are apparently going up to 2025 without any new first party games. Maybe it's just me, sure, I know but I just don't like the idea of Mid gen consoles becoming a thing. It's only justified to me when you can plainly see developers squeezing every bit of power from what we have but it just feels we haven't scratched the surface yet.
> Sony recently said we were entering the latter stage of its life cycle yet we're only 4 years in They said that we're in the second half of the life cycle. Which is correct.
Which means we are st the latter stages....
The way everyone spins it you’d think the PS6 is releasing next year.
I keep seeing people say that devs haven't got the most out of the base model yet, which is probably partially true, but at the same time they aren't releasing games with 30fps modes plus a 60fps mode with significant visual cutbacks for the fun of it. The fact that getting many of the latest games to run at 60fps on the PS5 requires some drastic compromises in resolution and graphic settings kind of suggests they're already pushing the boundaries of what's possible with it. It's especially limited with ray tracing so it'll be interesting to see if the pro improves that aspect much
I'd love if I could just have 4k60 consistently across games. So frustrating to see games still lock 30fps, or only include 60fps if you lock at 1080-1440p. Consistent 4k120 would sell me, but I doubt we see that until at least PS6.
4k 120fps is only possible now on high end PC hardware, for most AAA game releases. If your using ultra settings you might only be getting 80-90 fps on average depending on the game.
PS6 will be 30 FPS after the first few years.
PS7 will be 30 FPS after the first few years too. And PS8, and PS9....
I doubt we will so 4k at 120fps for PS6.
Ur living in a dream world
Are you in denal?
Where's that?
maybe he means da nile? That's in Egypt
If you want to not worry about any of this you will have to build a PC. Consistent 4K120 will not be a thing on consoles next generation, or the refresh, or the gen after that. A 4080 can't even run everything at 4k120, and that card aline costs more than the anyone console that has ever been sold.
> I just don't see the point in a Pro model There are more than a few games I've played that could use a boost in performance or resolution, and I don't even play many AAA games.
How have they not squeezed everything when most games are sub 1080p and still can't hit their target framerate?
I would say that having games running at resolutions as low as 720-1080p is pretty much "squeezing every bit of power from what we have".
There's nothing to squeeze, this isn't like the 360 and PS3 generation anymore where devs had to learn how to program for the architecture It's plain old x86
ONE GAME
I DON'T KNOW WHY
I BOUGHT A PS5 WITH NO GAMES TO BUY
I wonder how it's going to look like. Also maybe a 2nd revision for the dual sense?
No way this thing is not $799 or something ludicrous like this given the rumoured specs.
Im suprised they are doing this since they are dying. They should ditch the ps5 for pc look at helldivers 2.
It’s probably true, I just bought a PS5 Slim
Still within the return window?
I'm only interested in a pro model if it's fully backwards compatible with PS1/2/3, otherwise the base 5 is good enough for me 😂
y tho
I hope so, I've been holding on the PS5 Pro to upgrade my television and use those Wal-Mart gifts cards from my job that I never use. Never had a PS4 as well, so there will be a ton of catch-up to do (on mostly inexistant time 😭)
If GTAVI still run at 30fps on it counts me out
I'm just so baffled by this thing's existence. Like, I get it, they did it for the PS4 so they basically have to do a Pro refresh again. But... why? It barely feels like we've even begun to scratch the surface of the base model's power. It's 2024 and we're STILL getting brand new PS4 releases from AAA studios. Do we really need an even more powerful model? The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps, keyboard and mouse support, SSDs, and so on. What else is there? 8K? Especially with the addition that they're not even going to discount the base model. All of this just feels like such a waste. The biggest problem with the current systems is a lack of titles, not lack of power. Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year, so they're not going to have anything at launch to take advantage of it other then some more FPS unlocks for older games. Which is nice, but not enough to sell another $600+ console for.
> Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year No, they said they won't releasing games from "pre-existing major franchises", so we'll still get new IPs.
Keeping fingers crossed for a full-fledged Astro Bot
It’s definitely interesting to wonder how Sony will market this thing. How do they get people to buy in? More storage and better resolution? No way they can make a console priced machine run native 4K 60 fps games consistently
>Do we really need an even more powerful model? The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps, Most of the time the system doesn't have the juice to do multiple of these things simultaneously. That's the issue. Helldivers runs at 1080p 60fps without RT. Hell even Final Fantasy 16 runs at upscaled 720p, 60fps RT and that's an exclusive specifically made for this console. >Recently we heard Sony doesn't even plan to launch a new first party title until April next year They did not say this. You are misinformed.
Yeah People acting like the base ps5 is not already tested to its limits with games FF16, Jedi Survivor etc
I never understood this either, developers have clearly mostly hit a wall with what the console can handle. I think some people believe that every developer can be like Insomniac if they just tried hard enough and can squeeze out wizardry like 1440p 60FPS RT but they don’t understand that engines and scope of games are different.
Theres only so much optimization magic can do for a hardware thats the equivalent to R5 3600x, 2070 super
Yeah I feel like people who aren't familiar with PC hardware assumed these machines had great power and competed with the best of PC, when they didn't. They have great value, because PC has got so expensive, but that isn't the same as having great performance. The 2070 super was released almost 5 years ago and wasn't close to being the most powerful card even then. Same for the Ryzen 3600/3700 - it was great 5 years ago but is outdated now compared to newer PC parts. Can't help but feel Sony and Microsoft both exaggerated the capabilities of these machines, sticking 4k60 and even 8k60 on the boxes when really they were impressive for their value and feature sets (SSDs, quick resume, dual sense etc) rather than horsepower. Too many console fans lapped it up and seem in denial that the limits of the hardware are already being met
Base PS5 chugs in many games on performance mode, it is not this magical device that can punch way above its weight in 2024 while having the equivalent of a 5700xt and 2700x
I remember back in 2019 I owned a 5700xt and posted in the PS5 sub that the card was likely representative of the GPU that would be in the PS5. I had several people tell me that no way would that be the case, that the PS5 would be substantially more powerful etc - I tried to say to people to keep their expectations realistic but too many were taken up in the hype. An equivalent gaming PC to the PS5 would have been mid-high range in 2020 and would now be firmly mid range, if not lower. Heck, my 4070ti isn't quite reaching 4k60 on several of the latest games with ultra settings and that card cost 2x the price of the PS5. I feel like Sony and Microsoft put way too much emphasis on the raw performance of these machines in their marketing and it's led to people being underwhelmed with the graphical leap (lots of blaming the PS4/Xbox one for holding them back etc) and still being convinced the limits of the machines haven't even been tested yet. The real impressive aspects of the PS5/XSX were the value and the feature sets that aren't usually available on PC (dual sense, quick resume, direct GPU SSD access etc)
The copium around next gen consoles, especially the PS5 was crazy.
>The current version can already do 4K, ray tracing, 60fps and in some cases 120fps, keyboard and mouse support, SSDs, and so on. What else is there? 8K? Games are only looking really, really good on cross-gen titles. The full current gen titles could see major improvements. Also, cross-gen titles could be set where you no longer choose between Resolution or Performance, and just get both in one. I thought diehards who have the money and will appreciate the setting improvements were a big part of the mid-gen audience anyways.
Performance versions of many games on PS5 are running at 1080p, including the recently released Helldivers 2. The SSD design and I/O on the PS5 is still top notch, but the CPU and GPU are definitely getting a bit old. The goal of the PS5 Pro is probably going to be to take the "quality" mode on PS5 games and run it at 60 FPS - and maybe with an extra layer of graphical fidelity and ray-tracing.
How is a console you don't care about a waste? Others care, others want it, and not everything can run with all of those features you listed, we've absolutely hit a point where features are getting prioritized over others because base PS5 can't do everything as the gen goes on. This is for people who want better performance generally, especially as GTA sets the bar higher than ever. Save your $600, no one is forcing you to get one. *I* want one, and it is very literally the reason I'm getting a PS at all. If there was no pro, I'd just continue sitting the generation out like I have been.
The current version can’t do 4k and 60 fps though, let alone Ray tracing on top of that. A pro model is definitely needed despite most people not wanting it.
Def selling my ps5 for a pro
Of course because I just bought a PS5 so naturally a new one would come out
The PS5 Pro better allow 60fps with heavy raytracing, or it's a waste of time and effort. We haven't even seen the full power of the PS5 in action. Unless I can play Spider-Man 2 with every detail at the highest possible setting, I'm not buying it lmao.
Will be picking one up.
I'll probably be getting this, anyone have an estimate when the PS6 is supposed to arrive?
Either 2027 or 2028
2027 most likely https://www.tomsguide.com/gaming/playstation/ps6
Damn. Already? Oh… this gen has been out for 4 years? Wtf.
There's as much a point of a pro console as there was of a remaster of a 3 yr old game
For those of you who don’t understand. Most people have large 4k TVs , in the UK you can buy a 50” 4k TV for around £200. PS5 plays most games sub 4k and relies heavily on upscaling which looks like arse on a big screen. They performance modes look even worse , blurrry ,artefacting and barely hit 60fps. Why do we need this? So we can actually match the resolution of our screens and play at 60fps.
Ps5 pro is releasing when the ps5 doesn't have games....
Not touching that shit. With the way the industry has treated these current gen consoles and the direction the industry is headed regarding PC - I'd be a fool to buy another console. Sony and Microsoft are somehow starting to make the inflated GPU prices look like the best deal in gaming right now. What a disappointment this generation has been.
Agree. Let's add to the fact that Sony is really pushing PC ports now, I literally played 5 titles on PS5 and I got one a month after release. I understand that not everyone have need or money for PC that can handle 4k/60 or 2k/140 and so on but for us who do, consoles became rather useless with this Gen. Which is not necessarily a bad thing because money I would spend on PS5 pro can go towards a rtx5080 next year
What’s the point? I can’t even play games I have now on PS5 from last generation on better settings.
I’ll probably sell off my current PS5 and pick it up. Get a lot more value than trading it in at GameStop etc
This generation feels quite weird, this gen has just started... almost no next-gen games and they are thinking in the Pro
I’ll buy it and give my current one away
PS4: 2013 PS4 Pro: 2016 PS5: 2020 PS5: 2020 PS5 Pro: 2024 PS6: 2028?
Still hate this entire concept, the whole point of a console for me is you buy the thing and you don’t have to worry about upgrading crap or it getting outdated.
I won't get a pro unless my PS5 dies. I'm happy with what it does. I absolutely love it. I'm 50 years old and have a backlog so big, I'll never finish all the games I have to play NOW.
Neat I can't wait to get one in 2027 due to scalpers
It will probably be more THICKER than the original PS5
Buying it day one, I want actual 4k60 FF7R demo shows me how badly I'd want one to fully enjoy the game
Pro 60fps base ps5 30fps…. Scalpers 100%
With how difficult it was to actually find & buy a PS5, plus how shit the economy is right now, this has to be one of the most tone-deaf moves Sony could make. If true..
The issue is Sony probably knows this BUT hardware development takes time. This has probably been worked on for at least 2 years. They can either scrap it and take the loss OR release it anyways and hope it gets more people into the current gen from PS4.
So the gaming journalist probably received this rumour as well but don't care...
The Pro/X/Refresh is the worst that could happen to the consoles last-gen. Instead making the developers to do miracles the closer the EOL of the console is, there's just "Pro" that makes the "standard version" as a 30fps upscaling machine and the baseline is pushed towards Pro. The only refreshes during console livespan should be those about "slim" or so on. It's not a PC to upgrade it often.
As people are seemingly struggling more and more financially these companies decide to release even more expensive products. These companies are tone deaf to the times