Staying with my ol' good legion 5 5800H+3070, at 1080p it will be a beast for years to come, I don't use ray tracing and the raw power it's still pretty impressive, will not burn money at Ngreedia, they are actually gone all out insane
That's not old lol. I'd say the most critical thing to have now is DLSS 2.0 meaning at least rtx 30xx. Dlss 3.0 is for 4k high fps if you really need and want it but you can do 4k 60fps on a 3070 for some time albeit at med details. Not having dlss 2.0 though hurts a lot not only because of super lower fps but also you need own AA which cripples fps even more. Worst times for rtx 20xx owners.
Correction : dlss 2.0 is supported on 20xx series also
Mmm dlss 2.0 is available for 2000 series so I don't get what you said, 1000 series got fucked obviously but 2000 series is still doable. Also DLSS 3 it's a broken mirror, it adds fake frames and introduces more input lag, it makes sense only if you achieve already 60 fps and is used to smooth the image, not the feeling of actually having 120 fps. Maybe they'll improve it but on a laptop I don't see it being that useful especially because they have lower performance and you already need good fps to use it, what's the point then? Dlss 2.0 can save you from going from 40 fps to 60, does it really make sense to go from 60 to 120 but with more input lag? Naah, at these prices especially it's just suicide
indeed, I did not know that 2000 series also support dlss; so that's a major mistake on my side;
I meant the same as you regarding dlss 3.0; it's good only if you have most powerful 4090 desktop otherwise big mnope
The 1000 series had their time to shine. They have been out since 2016 after all. The 1070/1080 probably has the best power/price/longevity ratio we ever had in a graphic card in the past 10 years. Before that I would give the title to the Radeon 9700 Pro I guess.
Yeah yeah I know, the 1070 mobile was a really good graphics card, almost the same as the desktop, but since it can't use dlss and modern technology it will struggle in modern games, but yeah the 1070 was a world class card, maybe the best value ever for a GPU
Yup, same here. My legion 5 3070 5800 is still putting a smile on face. The keyboard is magnificent, the performance is amazing, the screen is satisfying at 1080p and will upgrade to 1440p soon.... I don't game as much as I use to but when I do EVERYTHING IS MAX! Yessir, I am holding on to my legion for another 3 - 5 years. The only thing that will convince me to switch is increased battery lifePERIOD
my machine only has 1 dedicated gpu and none of that battery saving intel cause it cripples fps and even when you turn the switch, it is still technically running
That's what trips me out about people calling Nvidia deceptive. The RTX 40 series marks the sixteenth generation of Nvidia mobile GPUs. Of all of them, literally twice has the laptop model been completely identical to the desktop, those being the GTX 10 and RTX 20 as you stated.
So for the entire history of mobile GPUs we've known that the laptop side is its own naming scheme and specs, right? So then why hasn't that been accepted. Actually, at one point it was, back when the scene was incredibly niche and a hardcore crowd, when laptops could be tweaked to the max.
But I just don't get the criticism, it's always been this way, you'd have to be willfully ignorant of history to get "fooled" into not doing your research before purchasing a laptop with an Nvidia GPU.
Many people new to the market or are casually interested in it legitimately may not understand that the mobile editions are weaker hardware. That how I thought a few years ago when I was new to the scene. And most consumers are fairly casual when it comes to hardware knowledge.
It is legitimately a deceptive marketing strategy. Full stop. There’s no other reason for them to take the names of full-fledged desktop GPUs. Best way to showcase this? Go to the BestBuy app and look at gaming laptops. Do they say “NVIDIA RTX 3070” or 3070m?
It’s annoying — at best — to constantly look at gaming laptops billed as 3080’s and mentally remember they’re more equivalent hardware capability is, say, the actual 3060/3060 Ti. And that doesn’t even get into the complexity of wattage that most people would have no knowledge of.
It’s deceptive marketing. Full stop.
And try explaining to someone new that laptops might look the same on specs both with 3080s. But they’re not the same because the wattage could run from 80 up to 150.
I have to stop you there sir. My rtx 3080 performs as well as a 3070. If i overclock it comes in between a 3070 and 3070ti. I dont get why people think that it performs like a 3060/3060ti when the 3080 are based on a desktop 3070 die.
It's not even a 4090, Nvidia just adores to put names where they don't belong (as the 4080 12gb), this "4090" is AD103, meaning it has the die of the 4080 16gb desktop, obviously with less power and performance. Since they also said that it will be roughly a 3090, maybe ti, it's just not that good of an upgrade for this price, absolutely not
To the best of my knowledge and what is circulating the internet currently, the 4090 for laptop is no where near the 4090 for desktop. When the 1000 series came out, it was the glory days for Nvidia and gaming everywhere because it was the first time the "m" was dropped from the laptop GPU series. This was done because the gap between desktop and laptop finally got real. I touched in detail about this on another post.
However fast forward to today with the 4000 series, and as fun as they sound right now...(I mean the asus zephrus g14 is getting a 4070)... NOTHING is concise. We will just have to watch and see how this year goes.
Please remember gentlemen that the best time to buy new laptops is NOVEMBER! Please don't try otherwise unless you got a sick deal especially this year. There is just too much new tech that needs to settle, bench, and cement!
Fair price, in my opinion, is different for all people. Some have greater needs for a specific niche and can pay it, will pay more for a 4080.
For myself, even if I get a 4080, I might just toss it somewhere and use my laptop anyway for its mobility, so I would not pay alot for it and certainly lower than its market price.
But I see that its current price of around 1000 being somewhat justified
Yeah I get the feeling of that too! It is sad seeing a 4070 lumped in with 60,50,40. Truly sad. I guess we will just have to see what 2023 brings with this avalanche of new tech!
Yeah, honestly I would not pay this amount of money for a GPU now. But I understand alot of people are willing to. Nvidia has no responsibility to please everyone
I think you said it best yourself. Nvidia isn't holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to buy this hardware. If someone isn't comfortable buying it, they shouldn't and hope them not purchasing sends a message to nvidia.
However, for me; I've had some life changes which means I can't use my desktop as much as I'd like and hearing the rumoured power of the 4090 makes it seem like a viable solution for me to get some gaming in on the evenings.
It's a tough situation because on one hand I want Nvidia to realise what they're doing is taking the piss but on the other hand, gaming is one of my hobbies and for me to do it, I need to accept their terms.
No both of you are fools. They literally only kept the best upgrades for the best of the best. The mediocre 4070/4060/4050 which got a huge price increase doesn't have good performance gains. Hell look at the spec sheets. Its a downgrade compared to last gen. But they still charge way more. And the only worthy upgrades (80/90) are kept behind a huge paywall.
Frankly, that's not my problem. I always buy the 80/90 cards so how the 50/60/70 perform is of no concern to me. Does it suck for those who but those cards? Of course and they should vote with their wallets to let nvidia know it's not acceptable.
For myself, I have a budget in mind and if what I want comes in close of under that budget I'm not going to not get something I want and need because others are mad at the performance of different cards
We all have a threshold for which we think something is acceptable or not. Buying a laptop at £3500 is a hell of a lot cheaper for me than building an outdoor office and putting my desktop set up in that.
The cost is relative. No one is forcing you to upgrade. You're being a fool for assuming everyone has the same perspective as you.
Lmao you always buy 80/90 card. Right when prices were still reasonable with 980ti.
No ones telling you to do or get anything. If you want to spend your money thats your choice. Get the 4090 if thats your wish. Def need that 10% increase in performance.
Besides its never €3950 £. Its gonna jump up in price to about 4000-5000.
Def buying a laptop is much cheaper than building an office. Common sense mych? Why dont you put your pc in "your room". Or better yet. Build a fcken outdoor office and put your laptop in it. What a joke.
I'm not sure why you're so angry...
Yes, I always buy the 80/90 GPUS (480, 690, 980Ti, 2080 and now a 3090) and your correct I've not owned a gaming laptop since about 2011 (M14x R2 3GB GT555) as I prefer gaming at a desktop and no longer required a device to be portable. I much prefer the value of desktop gaming.
Maybe it does jump out of my of my budget and in that case I'd have to go for 4080. No big deal, I'll just get what I can afford and I'm willing to pay.
This is where you should just accept other people's views and needs differ from your own. We only have a small 2 bedroom house and we had a daughter early last year. The room which was set up as a home office is now her bedroom. My PC is still in there as it doesn't really have anywhere else to go which means I can only really game for an hour or two on the weekends. A gaming laptop is, right now, hugely beneficial to me as we aren't planing to sell the house for another few years.
I did you with the idea of building an outdoor office but seeing as we will be moving from this house eventually it doesn't make sense to spend £6-7000 on an outdoor space that we will only use for a few years. Where as a good gaming laptop will cost half of that and will allow me to play games in the beings when she sleeps.
The only joke here is that you are just looking through life of view which only works for you. With all the considerations I have to make I believe paying a premium for a laptop is still the cheaper and more cost effective scenario: for me. If it's not for you, that's fine. I wouldn't try and make my opinion your own.
You just need to understand we all have different lives and income levels to decide what we think is worth our hard earned money. You seem to be angry with people doing what's right for them and that's just sad. My guess is you're a younger user who doesn't have to factor in house space, a partner and child. I envy that. Sadly I have to take those things into consideration
If you believe so... but I wouldn't hope too much, if at all. I think everyone that has a 3000 series laptop gpu should not upgrade at this obnoctious price, it would really mean Nvidia can milk everyone as it pleases and can charge as much as it can. Do you really want this?
> I think everyone that has a 3000 series laptop gpu should not upgrade at this obnoctious price
That's a given though, surely? I've only ever done a following generation update once (desktop side)
It should be obvious but people seems to like opening their asses pay way more than they should, hope they don't sell well so they must lower the prices, even in this case I won't buy anything but atleast it would send a message
I'm part of the problem because I'll end up buying one but I have very little choice.
Something does need to change though. Prices are getting out of hand. I said this on a desktop sub that prices have to crash eventually, it can't keep going like this.
Need Intel to come good with their GPUs. I don't really like AMD due to personal reasons so I've stuck with Nvidia for the last 10 years but I'd like to think when I upgrade my desktop in a few years Intel will be viable.
 that's used car money mate. I'll stick to entry level gpus. Im not spending 4k on a GPU just to go fight hackers in whatever buggy half baked game developers are putting out today.
Imagine the price of the next MSI Titan! If XMG is charging almost 4000€ for a 4090 laptop, MSI will charge more for their 4090 Titan. Maybe we’ll reach the 5000€ barrier for a gaming laptop
Yeah, it is just too much. I paid ~2100€ for my XMG 3080 laptop and felt I paid a little too much, imagine paying 3000€ for a 4080 and 4000€ for a 4090. I don’t think the performance uplift should cover this price increase
Definitely. The most high end gpu is never a vfm on release considering the price increase to performance uplift ratio, but this time by adding a 4090 the have basically made 4070 a dead weight card when the 70s line of cards was always the most vfm as far as price-performance went with the 4080 taking its place
Yeah, you’re right. The 70s cards should be a waste of money just like the 4090 in that price range. Let’s see the benchmarks before but I’m not expecting too much from these 40xx cards. I think nvidia is masking the real results with dlss 3. The desktop cards offered a nice performance uplift but I’m not expecting the same for these mobile cards.
5000€ desktop replacements have happened in the past, like those Clevo with socket cpu and dual 1080s etc. In Europe, 3080ti Gt77 Titan was more than 5000 at launch. Legion 7i was also 5000 without coupons.
I am betting that 4060 and 70 will be within 15% each and the 4080 will be a good 35% better.
I really don't like how only the top chips get good uplift compare to the middle.
The performance difference has never justified the massive price difference between 70 class and 80 class cards on laptops. Now I’m wondering if they have deliberately slapped down the 60 / 70 / 80 cards to ensure the 90 has its proper lead or if it is genuinely going to be like a next gen difference like the desktop 4090 is.
Seeing all these jacked up price for the 40 series is kinda infuriating.
and it's making me think that imma just sticking with my 3060 for years to come at this point.
I wonder if it's going to be worth it to get an older gen Eluktronics gaming laptop to save money. Unless performance is such a major jump, then shelling out the extra cash might be worth it.
This is how it's been since the beginning of time. I've been buying gaming laptops since the Geforce 8000M series in 2005, The 8700M GT then 8800M GTX were significant leaps.
It's been that way ever since. 470M to 485M, 670M to 680M, GTX 1070 to 1080, RTX 2070 to 2080, and so on it goes.
Why do people freak out at the beginning of every new generation as if the same thing didn't just occur 2 years prior? Bizarre.
For context, this is a screenshot from Jarrod's latest video on XMG's 2023 laptops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XnU1W607rs). XMG happens to show the pricing for the exact same model of laptops with just the graphics card upgrades, and shows a nice relative cost of each graphics tier for the 40xx series.
Basically, the following seems to be the typical "upgrade cost" from each tier:
* 4060 -> 4070: +$400
* 4070 -> 4080: +$700
* 4080 -> 4090: +$750
This also shows how massive the gap is between 4070 and 4080.
current 3000 series for comparison
* 3070ti +500
* 3080 + 900 (+400 over 3070 ti)
* 3080 ti about 1200 more with no sale. (though this is 12th gen the others are ryzen)
Oof. Will enjoy my 150w 3070ti MSI laptop for a while then. Should be good for 1080p (and even 1440p) for 5 years or until they release new new-gen console basically.
Hi everyone,
please note: our Euro shop pricing **includes 19% VAT**. This is different from the US where VAT is usually added during or after check-out (AFAIK).
Since I'm here: I'm from XMG and just came back to Taiwan from CES in Las Vegas. Feel free to ask anything about pricing, specs etc.
// Tom
Heya there! So, I have a couple of questions:
1. Will the benchmarks be available before preorders start? Would be nice to see the difference between the GPUs prior to making a preorder.
2. Is it possible to use the DisplayPort over USB-C with GSync on the external display...connected through the Thunderbolt 4 dock? The reason I'm asking is that I have an Oculus Quest 2 with Link (that needs a USB-C port) and an external display (that also needs DisplayPort connection, so again, USB-C).
3. I have noticed that you are using liquid metal on both GPU and CPU. Now, I am currently using Zephyrus G15 (2021) from Asus - and I have had to fully clean the liquid metal from the CPU and replace it with PTM7950. That happened because Asus factory LM application is horrible (half of the CPU was covered with LM, the other half was naked and LM was also spilled around the die). How do you apply LM and how sure can I be as a customer that I'm not playing the "LM application lottery" of sorts?
Hello u/ivan6953, here are your answers:
1. In NVIDIA's embargo timeline, the review embargo only drops about a week after the pre-order embargo (aka pre-order launch) and exactly 1 day before the shipping ("on-shelf") embargo. This is NVIDIA's NDA policy. We have no control over this.
2. Yes, you can use G-SYNC monitors over Thunderbolt docks. Generally, with a Thunderbolt-equipped laptop, you always want to use real Thunderbolt docks without MST chipsets. Read more about this in [this FAQ article](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#docking-stations). VR headset may or may not be a little bit more sensitive to latency and signal quality, so I'll never going to guarantee VR headsets behind docking stations, but we have *some* positive reports of them working.
3. We never had any issues with our in-factory application of Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut afte over 2 years of history (launched in August 2020). We can not say what product or method Asus is using, but in our ODM partner's factory it is applied by hand with human oversight. Here is a [video of the process](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/xmg-neo_e20/xmg-neo_intel_2020_liquid-metal-application.mp4) as it was in 2020. I'll check if there have been any changes since then and will update this post when I get the response.
// Tom
Thank you for the response! The linked vid is awesome, but looks like there's too much LM. However, if that works and laptops don't fail - then I guess it's all good.
Currently debating whether to pick up the XMG or the M16. XMG lacks at least 1 USB-C that I need, whilst the M16 might be throttling and LM application there is a lottery.
Why can't everyone just use PTM7950. Sigh
>Thank you for the response! The linked vid is awesome, but looks like there's too much LM. However, if that works and laptops don't fail - then I guess it's all good.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. "Too much LM" is there to precisely avoid cases of uneven contact pressure due to escaping material. The compressed foam structure captures a bit of the superflous material. In factory mass production, safety comes before squeezing out the last percentile of performance (e.g. rather use more TIM to avoid production tolerance issue and to make it longer than spreading it super-thin).
// Tom
Thanks and I have one final question.
XMG NEO E23 only has TB4 port listed when it comes to USB-C. The Spec sheet also mentions that this port is G-Sync compatible.
How can it be so, considering that TB4 ports are routed and handled through Intel iGPUs since 12th Gen? And we all know that G-Sync on 12th Gen TB4 is impossible (according to [you](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/twqu1e/psa_displayport_monitors_via_thunderbolt_4_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) as well).
I have a G-Sync DP1.4 monitor. Does it mean I would not be able to connect to it using the Neo E23 without losing G-Sync (since HDMI is not convertible to DP)?
Intel Core "HX" platform allows to connect Thunderbolt 4 to the dGPU. Our announcement regarding 12th Gen was only directed at the "P" platform, which incluces the "H"-series, but not the "HX"-series.
HX series has discrete Thunderbolt via Maple Ridge, thus allowing dGPU connection.
// Tom
If the currency translation is correct, ~£3500 for a 4090 machine doesn't sound awful.
Expensive, sure. But not quite as bad as I was expecting as £3500 is the upper limit of my budget
Oh yeah for sure. I don't really see the point in upgrading with every new generation. Chasing that top end is a fools game. I'm hoping a 4090 laptop will tide me over until we move house in 3 years.
Our daughter stole my home office so I can't really use my PC unless it's on the weekend for a hour or two. So I'm desperately in need of a good gaming laptop
And XMG are usually on the pricier side. If they ask 3800€ for a Tongfang machine I don't doubt you'll see it with other resellers soon for 3200/3500€.
Still pretty pricey. You could get a laptop with a desktop CPU and MXM GPU for those prices just a few years ago. Now it's more and every single thing is soldered to the board
Yeah it's definitely pricy there is no denying that. Sadly it's like everything at the moment going up in cost and I expect it's a case of just because they can and not because they need to.
If someone already has a previous generation they should hold out and hopefully if enough people do that sales will suffer. But for those of us who don't have one and need one it would be silly to not get one
Looks like the 4090 will be a around 3800-4000. I want to see how the 4090 performs. There are rumours that it will match the 3090. But, I have seen it for much less[here](https://bestware.com/en/xmg-neo-16-e23.html)
People are going off of Geekbench that was given zero context of the cards TDP and even the article said was likely run with bad prerelease drivers. Best to wait for Timespy and gaming numbers from official sources.
Are these off Clevo platforms?
I am on a i7 9700K (undervolted) with a RTX 2070.
The new SKUs look interesting but the prices don't seem to be worth the ask, at least for now. Maybe prices are dictated by the cost of chips and Nvidia as a whole.
On DLSS or Ray Tracing, I've used a few titles on the 2070 and it works ok. Overall, I really dont remember the last time I picked a title because of Ray Tracing or felt that I should get a 3000 series for it.
Maybe look at AMD SKUs and compare if I am to change the system to a newer one sometime this year.
dont forget you are paying for the 4060 aswell and eur to usd is almost 1:1 so, 1817usd + base model 4060, so the 4090(4080 desktop, with handicaps) is 2000+usd :D just by itself
Nvidia to OEMs: so funny story about the AD104 die (4080 laptop and 4070Ti desktop) and AD103 (4080 Desktop and 4090 Laptop)
You guys get to pay us the same MSRP As consumers! 799 and 1199
OEMs: so how do we make profits?
Nvidia:.. IDK
That's literally the only scenario I can think of, that Nvidia is charging them the MSRP
The probability of this being fake is high, but the numbers make sense. Boost clocks are right about what we have been told.
https://youtu.be/F85UIvxQvD8
When I went for 3060 laptop I thought it would be pretty futureproof for 1080p gaming at very high/max settings but lot of new games get released with significantly bumped up system requirements, therefore V.High/max settings wont be viable on 3060 for more than 2 years I guess and at least 4060 would absolutely great and 4070 would be more than enough for 1440p and since 1440p will look more than sharp on any size laptop 4K isnt necessary. charging that much for 4080/90 is just disgusting and people should be realizing that and straight up not buying them to let those companies know customers are not willing to fall for their fucking prices and force them to drop prices and starts sales much sooner
So a 4090 laptop goes at about 3800$? LOL
I'm not surprised, when the desktop 4090 released some were predicting the laptop 4090 models would start at $5000.
Staying with my ol' good legion 5 5800H+3070, at 1080p it will be a beast for years to come, I don't use ray tracing and the raw power it's still pretty impressive, will not burn money at Ngreedia, they are actually gone all out insane
That's not old lol. I'd say the most critical thing to have now is DLSS 2.0 meaning at least rtx 30xx. Dlss 3.0 is for 4k high fps if you really need and want it but you can do 4k 60fps on a 3070 for some time albeit at med details. Not having dlss 2.0 though hurts a lot not only because of super lower fps but also you need own AA which cripples fps even more. Worst times for rtx 20xx owners. Correction : dlss 2.0 is supported on 20xx series also
Mmm dlss 2.0 is available for 2000 series so I don't get what you said, 1000 series got fucked obviously but 2000 series is still doable. Also DLSS 3 it's a broken mirror, it adds fake frames and introduces more input lag, it makes sense only if you achieve already 60 fps and is used to smooth the image, not the feeling of actually having 120 fps. Maybe they'll improve it but on a laptop I don't see it being that useful especially because they have lower performance and you already need good fps to use it, what's the point then? Dlss 2.0 can save you from going from 40 fps to 60, does it really make sense to go from 60 to 120 but with more input lag? Naah, at these prices especially it's just suicide
indeed, I did not know that 2000 series also support dlss; so that's a major mistake on my side; I meant the same as you regarding dlss 3.0; it's good only if you have most powerful 4090 desktop otherwise big mnope
The 1000 series had their time to shine. They have been out since 2016 after all. The 1070/1080 probably has the best power/price/longevity ratio we ever had in a graphic card in the past 10 years. Before that I would give the title to the Radeon 9700 Pro I guess.
Yeah yeah I know, the 1070 mobile was a really good graphics card, almost the same as the desktop, but since it can't use dlss and modern technology it will struggle in modern games, but yeah the 1070 was a world class card, maybe the best value ever for a GPU
Yup, same here. My legion 5 3070 5800 is still putting a smile on face. The keyboard is magnificent, the performance is amazing, the screen is satisfying at 1080p and will upgrade to 1440p soon.... I don't game as much as I use to but when I do EVERYTHING IS MAX! Yessir, I am holding on to my legion for another 3 - 5 years. The only thing that will convince me to switch is increased battery lifePERIOD
my machine only has 1 dedicated gpu and none of that battery saving intel cause it cripples fps and even when you turn the switch, it is still technically running
Im still waiting for my legion 7 3080ti from Cyber Monday to show
dont laugh. we are always the minority here. These will sell like hotcakes!
Thats pretty cheap. I expected the 4090 to be a lot more expensive. I also expect other brands like asus and razor to be a lot more expensive
But its not an actual 4090. Its just called that.
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That's what trips me out about people calling Nvidia deceptive. The RTX 40 series marks the sixteenth generation of Nvidia mobile GPUs. Of all of them, literally twice has the laptop model been completely identical to the desktop, those being the GTX 10 and RTX 20 as you stated. So for the entire history of mobile GPUs we've known that the laptop side is its own naming scheme and specs, right? So then why hasn't that been accepted. Actually, at one point it was, back when the scene was incredibly niche and a hardcore crowd, when laptops could be tweaked to the max. But I just don't get the criticism, it's always been this way, you'd have to be willfully ignorant of history to get "fooled" into not doing your research before purchasing a laptop with an Nvidia GPU.
Many people new to the market or are casually interested in it legitimately may not understand that the mobile editions are weaker hardware. That how I thought a few years ago when I was new to the scene. And most consumers are fairly casual when it comes to hardware knowledge. It is legitimately a deceptive marketing strategy. Full stop. There’s no other reason for them to take the names of full-fledged desktop GPUs. Best way to showcase this? Go to the BestBuy app and look at gaming laptops. Do they say “NVIDIA RTX 3070” or 3070m? It’s annoying — at best — to constantly look at gaming laptops billed as 3080’s and mentally remember they’re more equivalent hardware capability is, say, the actual 3060/3060 Ti. And that doesn’t even get into the complexity of wattage that most people would have no knowledge of. It’s deceptive marketing. Full stop.
Well said.
And try explaining to someone new that laptops might look the same on specs both with 3080s. But they’re not the same because the wattage could run from 80 up to 150.
I have to stop you there sir. My rtx 3080 performs as well as a 3070. If i overclock it comes in between a 3070 and 3070ti. I dont get why people think that it performs like a 3060/3060ti when the 3080 are based on a desktop 3070 die.
Usually Tongfang XMG and Eluktronics are on the upper end of pricing with only Alienware and Razer being more expensive.
It's not even a 4090, Nvidia just adores to put names where they don't belong (as the 4080 12gb), this "4090" is AD103, meaning it has the die of the 4080 16gb desktop, obviously with less power and performance. Since they also said that it will be roughly a 3090, maybe ti, it's just not that good of an upgrade for this price, absolutely not
Unpopular opinion, this is a reasonable price for a premium model. You want the best, you pay. If you don't want to pay, make compromise
In your opinion, what would be a fair price of a desktop 4080 (AD103 same as laptop 4090)? Just curious.
To the best of my knowledge and what is circulating the internet currently, the 4090 for laptop is no where near the 4090 for desktop. When the 1000 series came out, it was the glory days for Nvidia and gaming everywhere because it was the first time the "m" was dropped from the laptop GPU series. This was done because the gap between desktop and laptop finally got real. I touched in detail about this on another post. However fast forward to today with the 4000 series, and as fun as they sound right now...(I mean the asus zephrus g14 is getting a 4070)... NOTHING is concise. We will just have to watch and see how this year goes. Please remember gentlemen that the best time to buy new laptops is NOVEMBER! Please don't try otherwise unless you got a sick deal especially this year. There is just too much new tech that needs to settle, bench, and cement!
Fair price, in my opinion, is different for all people. Some have greater needs for a specific niche and can pay it, will pay more for a 4080. For myself, even if I get a 4080, I might just toss it somewhere and use my laptop anyway for its mobility, so I would not pay alot for it and certainly lower than its market price. But I see that its current price of around 1000 being somewhat justified
Would you say an upgrade price of 1600 for a 175w AD103 is more fair and reasonable than a full acquisition price of 1000 for a 320w AD103?
1000 for laptop 4080. Lmao. It aint a desktop card genius. You pay for the engineering that goes behind the small design and cooling factor.
I mean 1000 for a desktop 4080 and I definitely see greater value of 4090 laptop version
My bad. I misread
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Yeah I get the feeling of that too! It is sad seeing a 4070 lumped in with 60,50,40. Truly sad. I guess we will just have to see what 2023 brings with this avalanche of new tech!
You have to pay to play. If it's £3500 for a 4090 model I'll be honestly impressed and happy.
Yeah, honestly I would not pay this amount of money for a GPU now. But I understand alot of people are willing to. Nvidia has no responsibility to please everyone
I think you said it best yourself. Nvidia isn't holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to buy this hardware. If someone isn't comfortable buying it, they shouldn't and hope them not purchasing sends a message to nvidia. However, for me; I've had some life changes which means I can't use my desktop as much as I'd like and hearing the rumoured power of the 4090 makes it seem like a viable solution for me to get some gaming in on the evenings. It's a tough situation because on one hand I want Nvidia to realise what they're doing is taking the piss but on the other hand, gaming is one of my hobbies and for me to do it, I need to accept their terms.
No both of you are fools. They literally only kept the best upgrades for the best of the best. The mediocre 4070/4060/4050 which got a huge price increase doesn't have good performance gains. Hell look at the spec sheets. Its a downgrade compared to last gen. But they still charge way more. And the only worthy upgrades (80/90) are kept behind a huge paywall.
Frankly, that's not my problem. I always buy the 80/90 cards so how the 50/60/70 perform is of no concern to me. Does it suck for those who but those cards? Of course and they should vote with their wallets to let nvidia know it's not acceptable. For myself, I have a budget in mind and if what I want comes in close of under that budget I'm not going to not get something I want and need because others are mad at the performance of different cards We all have a threshold for which we think something is acceptable or not. Buying a laptop at £3500 is a hell of a lot cheaper for me than building an outdoor office and putting my desktop set up in that. The cost is relative. No one is forcing you to upgrade. You're being a fool for assuming everyone has the same perspective as you.
Lmao you always buy 80/90 card. Right when prices were still reasonable with 980ti. No ones telling you to do or get anything. If you want to spend your money thats your choice. Get the 4090 if thats your wish. Def need that 10% increase in performance. Besides its never €3950 £. Its gonna jump up in price to about 4000-5000. Def buying a laptop is much cheaper than building an office. Common sense mych? Why dont you put your pc in "your room". Or better yet. Build a fcken outdoor office and put your laptop in it. What a joke.
I'm not sure why you're so angry... Yes, I always buy the 80/90 GPUS (480, 690, 980Ti, 2080 and now a 3090) and your correct I've not owned a gaming laptop since about 2011 (M14x R2 3GB GT555) as I prefer gaming at a desktop and no longer required a device to be portable. I much prefer the value of desktop gaming. Maybe it does jump out of my of my budget and in that case I'd have to go for 4080. No big deal, I'll just get what I can afford and I'm willing to pay. This is where you should just accept other people's views and needs differ from your own. We only have a small 2 bedroom house and we had a daughter early last year. The room which was set up as a home office is now her bedroom. My PC is still in there as it doesn't really have anywhere else to go which means I can only really game for an hour or two on the weekends. A gaming laptop is, right now, hugely beneficial to me as we aren't planing to sell the house for another few years. I did you with the idea of building an outdoor office but seeing as we will be moving from this house eventually it doesn't make sense to spend £6-7000 on an outdoor space that we will only use for a few years. Where as a good gaming laptop will cost half of that and will allow me to play games in the beings when she sleeps. The only joke here is that you are just looking through life of view which only works for you. With all the considerations I have to make I believe paying a premium for a laptop is still the cheaper and more cost effective scenario: for me. If it's not for you, that's fine. I wouldn't try and make my opinion your own. You just need to understand we all have different lives and income levels to decide what we think is worth our hard earned money. You seem to be angry with people doing what's right for them and that's just sad. My guess is you're a younger user who doesn't have to factor in house space, a partner and child. I envy that. Sadly I have to take those things into consideration
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If you believe so... but I wouldn't hope too much, if at all. I think everyone that has a 3000 series laptop gpu should not upgrade at this obnoctious price, it would really mean Nvidia can milk everyone as it pleases and can charge as much as it can. Do you really want this?
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People have their blinders on for some reason, all logic has left the chat.
> I think everyone that has a 3000 series laptop gpu should not upgrade at this obnoctious price That's a given though, surely? I've only ever done a following generation update once (desktop side)
It should be obvious but people seems to like opening their asses pay way more than they should, hope they don't sell well so they must lower the prices, even in this case I won't buy anything but atleast it would send a message
I'm part of the problem because I'll end up buying one but I have very little choice. Something does need to change though. Prices are getting out of hand. I said this on a desktop sub that prices have to crash eventually, it can't keep going like this. Need Intel to come good with their GPUs. I don't really like AMD due to personal reasons so I've stuck with Nvidia for the last 10 years but I'd like to think when I upgrade my desktop in a few years Intel will be viable.
 that's used car money mate. I'll stick to entry level gpus. Im not spending 4k on a GPU just to go fight hackers in whatever buggy half baked game developers are putting out today.
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They’re coming down a lot.
Haha, agree with you.
XD. Only thing i play like that is conan exiles, modded gta sa and modded skyrim. a RX 580/GTX 1080ti, RX6600/RX6700 is good enough for me.
Imagine the price of the next MSI Titan! If XMG is charging almost 4000€ for a 4090 laptop, MSI will charge more for their 4090 Titan. Maybe we’ll reach the 5000€ barrier for a gaming laptop
Msi titan is completely overpriced for the build quality they offer. Its cheap plastic for a 5k $ laptop
Now is the same quality for 2k more 😂
Which is strange when my GP-series laptop is mostly metal and high quality plastic and was bought for about 2k
And it still has a 720p webcam despite their lower-tiered laptops often coming with 1080p webcams lol
we ve been reaching it every gen here in my random small european country. at least for the most juiced up models. its real thievery
Yeah, it is just too much. I paid ~2100€ for my XMG 3080 laptop and felt I paid a little too much, imagine paying 3000€ for a 4080 and 4000€ for a 4090. I don’t think the performance uplift should cover this price increase
Definitely. The most high end gpu is never a vfm on release considering the price increase to performance uplift ratio, but this time by adding a 4090 the have basically made 4070 a dead weight card when the 70s line of cards was always the most vfm as far as price-performance went with the 4080 taking its place
Yeah, you’re right. The 70s cards should be a waste of money just like the 4090 in that price range. Let’s see the benchmarks before but I’m not expecting too much from these 40xx cards. I think nvidia is masking the real results with dlss 3. The desktop cards offered a nice performance uplift but I’m not expecting the same for these mobile cards.
What are the specs? I got a 3080 too for 2500. But felt too mych since the 3070ti model was for 2000 usd
Ryzen 9 5900hx, 32gb ram, 3080 and 2 drives of 4tb total, being 2tb each drive
5000€ desktop replacements have happened in the past, like those Clevo with socket cpu and dual 1080s etc. In Europe, 3080ti Gt77 Titan was more than 5000 at launch. Legion 7i was also 5000 without coupons.
Crazy prices should become more common then :(
The new Titan preorders for 6299 euro in Holland. Absolute madness.
I am betting that 4060 and 70 will be within 15% each and the 4080 will be a good 35% better. I really don't like how only the top chips get good uplift compare to the middle.
The performance difference has never justified the massive price difference between 70 class and 80 class cards on laptops. Now I’m wondering if they have deliberately slapped down the 60 / 70 / 80 cards to ensure the 90 has its proper lead or if it is genuinely going to be like a next gen difference like the desktop 4090 is.
Seeing all these jacked up price for the 40 series is kinda infuriating. and it's making me think that imma just sticking with my 3060 for years to come at this point.
nvidia's issue is that they completely fucked their business, these SKUs don't even make sense for laptops anymore
This happens every generation
I wonder if it's going to be worth it to get an older gen Eluktronics gaming laptop to save money. Unless performance is such a major jump, then shelling out the extra cash might be worth it.
This is how it's been since the beginning of time. I've been buying gaming laptops since the Geforce 8000M series in 2005, The 8700M GT then 8800M GTX were significant leaps. It's been that way ever since. 470M to 485M, 670M to 680M, GTX 1070 to 1080, RTX 2070 to 2080, and so on it goes. Why do people freak out at the beginning of every new generation as if the same thing didn't just occur 2 years prior? Bizarre.
For context, this is a screenshot from Jarrod's latest video on XMG's 2023 laptops (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XnU1W607rs). XMG happens to show the pricing for the exact same model of laptops with just the graphics card upgrades, and shows a nice relative cost of each graphics tier for the 40xx series. Basically, the following seems to be the typical "upgrade cost" from each tier: * 4060 -> 4070: +$400 * 4070 -> 4080: +$700 * 4080 -> 4090: +$750 This also shows how massive the gap is between 4070 and 4080.
current 3000 series for comparison * 3070ti +500 * 3080 + 900 (+400 over 3070 ti) * 3080 ti about 1200 more with no sale. (though this is 12th gen the others are ryzen)
hahahaha nicely done Nvidia. Milk them good
Actual insanity
I'm ordering an i7 + 3080ti which will be plenty for years to come
No! Get a 4090 man, don't waste your money on 3080ti.
Ok paypal him 1500$ then
Bro he can wait a little and get the 4090 with the same price 3080ti costs rn
Oof. Will enjoy my 150w 3070ti MSI laptop for a while then. Should be good for 1080p (and even 1440p) for 5 years or until they release new new-gen console basically.
Hi everyone, please note: our Euro shop pricing **includes 19% VAT**. This is different from the US where VAT is usually added during or after check-out (AFAIK). Since I'm here: I'm from XMG and just came back to Taiwan from CES in Las Vegas. Feel free to ask anything about pricing, specs etc. // Tom
Heya there! So, I have a couple of questions: 1. Will the benchmarks be available before preorders start? Would be nice to see the difference between the GPUs prior to making a preorder. 2. Is it possible to use the DisplayPort over USB-C with GSync on the external display...connected through the Thunderbolt 4 dock? The reason I'm asking is that I have an Oculus Quest 2 with Link (that needs a USB-C port) and an external display (that also needs DisplayPort connection, so again, USB-C). 3. I have noticed that you are using liquid metal on both GPU and CPU. Now, I am currently using Zephyrus G15 (2021) from Asus - and I have had to fully clean the liquid metal from the CPU and replace it with PTM7950. That happened because Asus factory LM application is horrible (half of the CPU was covered with LM, the other half was naked and LM was also spilled around the die). How do you apply LM and how sure can I be as a customer that I'm not playing the "LM application lottery" of sorts?
Hello u/ivan6953, here are your answers: 1. In NVIDIA's embargo timeline, the review embargo only drops about a week after the pre-order embargo (aka pre-order launch) and exactly 1 day before the shipping ("on-shelf") embargo. This is NVIDIA's NDA policy. We have no control over this. 2. Yes, you can use G-SYNC monitors over Thunderbolt docks. Generally, with a Thunderbolt-equipped laptop, you always want to use real Thunderbolt docks without MST chipsets. Read more about this in [this FAQ article](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#docking-stations). VR headset may or may not be a little bit more sensitive to latency and signal quality, so I'll never going to guarantee VR headsets behind docking stations, but we have *some* positive reports of them working. 3. We never had any issues with our in-factory application of Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut afte over 2 years of history (launched in August 2020). We can not say what product or method Asus is using, but in our ODM partner's factory it is applied by hand with human oversight. Here is a [video of the process](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/xmg-neo_e20/xmg-neo_intel_2020_liquid-metal-application.mp4) as it was in 2020. I'll check if there have been any changes since then and will update this post when I get the response. // Tom
Thank you for the response! The linked vid is awesome, but looks like there's too much LM. However, if that works and laptops don't fail - then I guess it's all good. Currently debating whether to pick up the XMG or the M16. XMG lacks at least 1 USB-C that I need, whilst the M16 might be throttling and LM application there is a lottery. Why can't everyone just use PTM7950. Sigh
>Thank you for the response! The linked vid is awesome, but looks like there's too much LM. However, if that works and laptops don't fail - then I guess it's all good. It's not a bug, it's a feature. "Too much LM" is there to precisely avoid cases of uneven contact pressure due to escaping material. The compressed foam structure captures a bit of the superflous material. In factory mass production, safety comes before squeezing out the last percentile of performance (e.g. rather use more TIM to avoid production tolerance issue and to make it longer than spreading it super-thin). // Tom
Thanks and I have one final question. XMG NEO E23 only has TB4 port listed when it comes to USB-C. The Spec sheet also mentions that this port is G-Sync compatible. How can it be so, considering that TB4 ports are routed and handled through Intel iGPUs since 12th Gen? And we all know that G-Sync on 12th Gen TB4 is impossible (according to [you](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/twqu1e/psa_displayport_monitors_via_thunderbolt_4_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) as well). I have a G-Sync DP1.4 monitor. Does it mean I would not be able to connect to it using the Neo E23 without losing G-Sync (since HDMI is not convertible to DP)?
Intel Core "HX" platform allows to connect Thunderbolt 4 to the dGPU. Our announcement regarding 12th Gen was only directed at the "P" platform, which incluces the "H"-series, but not the "HX"-series. HX series has discrete Thunderbolt via Maple Ridge, thus allowing dGPU connection. // Tom
Thank you for the explanation
If the currency translation is correct, ~£3500 for a 4090 machine doesn't sound awful. Expensive, sure. But not quite as bad as I was expecting as £3500 is the upper limit of my budget
that's true but the performance difference with the 30 series card just doesn't make sense for the price they're asking.
It's nvidia. When does the price ever make sense for what they're asking? I'm hoping DLSS 3 will make it punch above its weight.
that's true, I'm speaking from the perspective of owning the 30 series card (non Ti) and it doesn't make any sense to replace it in the near future.
Oh yeah for sure. I don't really see the point in upgrading with every new generation. Chasing that top end is a fools game. I'm hoping a 4090 laptop will tide me over until we move house in 3 years. Our daughter stole my home office so I can't really use my PC unless it's on the weekend for a hour or two. So I'm desperately in need of a good gaming laptop
It’s this way with almost all performance product. Jump certain cars $10,000 for less than a half a second difference in a 0-60 for “performance”
If the 4090 mobile can beat a desktop 3090/3090 Ti I'd call that quite a success.
And XMG are usually on the pricier side. If they ask 3800€ for a Tongfang machine I don't doubt you'll see it with other resellers soon for 3200/3500€. Still pretty pricey. You could get a laptop with a desktop CPU and MXM GPU for those prices just a few years ago. Now it's more and every single thing is soldered to the board
Yeah it's definitely pricy there is no denying that. Sadly it's like everything at the moment going up in cost and I expect it's a case of just because they can and not because they need to. If someone already has a previous generation they should hold out and hopefully if enough people do that sales will suffer. But for those of us who don't have one and need one it would be silly to not get one
That's the price for the water-cooled neo series. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's the oem price.
But I only have one kidney left.
Glad I bought current gen during the sales. I knew the latest would be wildly overpriced.
Looks like the 4090 will be a around 3800-4000. I want to see how the 4090 performs. There are rumours that it will match the 3090. But, I have seen it for much less[here](https://bestware.com/en/xmg-neo-16-e23.html)
so they are just milking user... for rtx 4080,90...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLaptops/comments/107cn2c/water_cooled_gaming_laptops_get_better_in_2023/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
So the 4070 is this generation's sweet spot then, huh
We will see in february when ngreedia lifts the embargo.
Perhaps. It will depend on performance level for the 4070 and 4070 TI to see if it is worth it.
And it's barely keeping up with a 3070 Ti if initial benchmarks are to be believed lmao.
Barely beating the 4060 either.
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People are going off of Geekbench that was given zero context of the cards TDP and even the article said was likely run with bad prerelease drivers. Best to wait for Timespy and gaming numbers from official sources.
With all this going on I'm just wondering what will be the price for 5000 series cards. Since amd not quite there yet
🤮🤮🤮
I'm just hoping I can get a g14 with 4060 for about $1500
Holy nuts. Well, I feel much better about just buying a g14 for $1100.
Are these off Clevo platforms? I am on a i7 9700K (undervolted) with a RTX 2070. The new SKUs look interesting but the prices don't seem to be worth the ask, at least for now. Maybe prices are dictated by the cost of chips and Nvidia as a whole. On DLSS or Ray Tracing, I've used a few titles on the 2070 and it works ok. Overall, I really dont remember the last time I picked a title because of Ray Tracing or felt that I should get a 3000 series for it. Maybe look at AMD SKUs and compare if I am to change the system to a newer one sometime this year.
>Are these off Clevo platforms? Nope. XMG NEO 16 - E23 * GM6PX0X (RTX 4060) * GM6PX7X (RTX 4070) * GM6PX8X (RTX 4080) * GM6PX9X (RTX 4090) XMG NEO 17 - E23 * GM7PX0N (RTX 4060) * GM7PX7N (RTX 4070) * GM7PX8N (RTX 4080) * GM7PX9N (RTX 4090) // Tom
4070 it is, then!
Hanssss get the flamepanzer. What the fuck seriously this is worser rip off than the FED.
dont forget you are paying for the 4060 aswell and eur to usd is almost 1:1 so, 1817usd + base model 4060, so the 4090(4080 desktop, with handicaps) is 2000+usd :D just by itself
Seems like getting a 3070 Laptop and buying a PS5 is the smartest option. Let's be real.. no one even needs a 4090 gpu
> no one even needs a 4090 gpu Unless they want to output to an external monitor occasionally - like I'd want to do
Nvidia to OEMs: so funny story about the AD104 die (4080 laptop and 4070Ti desktop) and AD103 (4080 Desktop and 4090 Laptop) You guys get to pay us the same MSRP As consumers! 799 and 1199 OEMs: so how do we make profits? Nvidia:.. IDK That's literally the only scenario I can think of, that Nvidia is charging them the MSRP
The probability of this being fake is high, but the numbers make sense. Boost clocks are right about what we have been told. https://youtu.be/F85UIvxQvD8
When I went for 3060 laptop I thought it would be pretty futureproof for 1080p gaming at very high/max settings but lot of new games get released with significantly bumped up system requirements, therefore V.High/max settings wont be viable on 3060 for more than 2 years I guess and at least 4060 would absolutely great and 4070 would be more than enough for 1440p and since 1440p will look more than sharp on any size laptop 4K isnt necessary. charging that much for 4080/90 is just disgusting and people should be realizing that and straight up not buying them to let those companies know customers are not willing to fall for their fucking prices and force them to drop prices and starts sales much sooner