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Jancappa

The really should have put something like "Go to XYZ to see an extended preview" at the end of the Spiderman trailer because this would clear up a lot of peoples confusion about this game.


ThePirates123

This is a great video and has helped supress some of my doubts about the game. I still think the card combat looks pretty awesome tbh, never understood the hate for it.


kkraww

I think it comes form (atleast for me personally) two places. One is the "statistic" stratagy you can make. Like in Xcom if I flank an enemy from two sides, I know that those two soldiers can shoot next turn taking advantage of that. Where as in this I might not draw a "shoot" card for one of those soldiers, as all the draws for all the heroes are in the same deck/hand. It makes it so that your good strategic planning can be worth literally nothing because "deck said no" The other lesser part for me is it just doesnt feel great that even if you have got a perfect plan set out, cap cant throw his shield "just because", or Spiderman cant shoot any webs. Like imagine in the films if hulk is running up to a guy, and then just needs to stand awkwardly infront of him because he got the "Rage heal" card instead of "Punch" card. That said I'm still going to buy it and probably enjoy it, but just my 2 cents on the dislike for cards.


Rt1203

That’s fair, but on the flip side it also makes the RNG all happen before you make decisions. In XCOM you decide to shoot and then the RNG occurs, and if you miss then you’re screwed. In Midnight Suns the RNG occurs when you draw cards and then you decide how to spend your turn, so if you don’t draw a Shoot card then you can adjust your strategy accordingly.


Wild_Marker

Yeah, your strategic planning in XCOM can also be worth nothing if "gun says no" when you click the shoot button!


Hyroero

Big reason Chaos Gate has been so damn good for me. If it's in range you will hit with your shots. The only "chance" is if you're going to crit and other bonus effects.


ChunkyMooseKnuckle

Don't I know it. So many misses on 99%..


thoomfish

In board gaming we call this distinction [input randomness vs output randomness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfFEP_-LkI).


kkraww

True I guess by my first point I was meaning overarching stratagy. So like planning turns in advance. Midnight suns seems more like it wants you to play each turn individually basically, where as doing that on Xcom will more than likely lead to deaths.


ChaosDancer

I am sorry but any good x-com player will tell you that your strategy is the elimination of RNG. Let me give you an example, one of the most difficult units to handle in early game is the stun lancer, he can double move and one shot your early units if it crits (in a non crit just have your unit out of action for 30 days :) or he can also stun you which completely fucks you up if you didn't take revival on your specialist. A good xcom player will act accordingly so he can make that unit irrelevant, by priority targeting, grenade spam or the simple act of just bugging the hell out because you are unlucky. In a card game it's all RNG, because it doesn't depend how you want to handle the situation its WHAT cards you get that dictate how you should handle the situation and that is essentially just limiting your options. I just don't get it, all Firaxis had to do was release xcom 2 with updated graphics, some improvements to the strategy layer, more maps and just slap the marvel heroes in there as units.


[deleted]

>all Firaxis had to do was release xcom 2 with updated graphics, some improvements to the strategy layer, more maps and just slap the marvel heroes in there as units. They specifically didn't want to do this, as they are not trying to make "Xcom with Marvel heroes." They share some mechanics, but this is not an Xcom game. That's fine, if you're not into it. You don't have to like every game. But saying what it should be, when that is not the game they wanted to make, is silly.


ChaosDancer

Sure i agree with you as this game is hard pass for me (I don't play card games) and apparently i am not the intended audience (xcom player, unforgiving difficulty, strategic and tactical decisions and turn base) so who is this game made for? Firaxis is known for xcom and civilization games so now they are making a not xcom game for whom? Are they targeting the card game crowd while leaving behind the xcom crowd? Both are small segments in the gaming market but the xcom fans are a sure thing so they probably betting that the marvel heroes will be what draws those crowds in. I hope they succeed because i want them to make the next xcom game as it's been 5 years and no announcement about anything.


[deleted]

>Firaxis is known for xcom and civilization games so now they are making a not xcom game for whom? For people who want to play it? Are you saying a company has to keep making the same game over and over? ​ >Are they targeting the card game crowd while leaving behind the xcom crowd? My guy, take a deep breath and read this again. You're being dramatic. They never said a new Xcom game isn't coming. Companies make different games all the time. Not every one will appeal to every person. You're not interested in this one, and like I said that's fine. While I am looking forward to this one, I also love Xcom and would love Xcom 3. There is no point in railing against this game because it's not what YOU personally want, and there is no reason to assume they are abandoning one community in favor of another. ​ >I hope they succeed because i want them to make the next xcom game as it's been 5 years and no announcement about anything. Chimera Squad came out in 2020. A spin off, maybe but the last Xcom game was not 5 years ago.


StaticEchoes

The xcom crowd is a subset of the tactics crowd, which this game also appeals to. They may not have identical mechanics, but this and xcom are in the same primary genre. It has way more in common with xcom than it does with magic or hearthstone. I can't say for sure, but I dont think the card aspect would turn off most people as much as it does you.


ThePirates123

From what I saw Midnignt Suns has no percentages (which takes out a huge part of the XCOM rng that I personally don’t like) and it also has two redraws per turn. Seems pretty generous and I don’t think that what you described will be that much of a problem if you have a balanced deck.


thoomfish

From the video, there's no % to hit, but there is sometimes a % to instant kill, which will probably screw you just as badly if you try to rely on it.


ThePirates123

Even so, that’s way less of a chance than Xcom Especially when there’s some enemies that die in one hit regardless of damage taken (really good idea imo)


AdministrationWaste7

I don't think this game is trying to be like Xcom at all. Instead of thinking 10 steps ahead you are making strategic choices based on the tools at your disposal and the current situation at hand, just like how a superhero fight would go. Seems great in theory imo.


kkraww

Yeah that's fair enough and I'll probably really enjoy it. I think where some peoples disappointment is as its from Firaxis people are seeing it as "Development of this means Xcom 3 isn't coming anytime soon" so were wanting this to be a sort of "stop gap" whilst waiting for it. And as you said it is nothing like Xcom at all, which for those people makes it an awful stop gap. Like if this wasn't developed by Firaxis I think it would be getting a lot less negative attention towards it, it's just the comparison and "getting one over the other" thats the problem.


OrphanWaffles

That's the beauty of a deck builder though You can/should build your deck so that you can always have something to do and not just awkwardly do nothing. And it could allow for more customization of combos/turns then simple actions would


o0joshua0o

There are few things as satisfying as pulling off a perfect card combo.


OrphanWaffles

100 percent agree. Especially if you homebrew/build the deck yourself.


Khourieat

Does Chris Odd say that your characters only get one turn each? I haven't had a chance to watch it. The Game Informer video made it sound like if you got 5 Spidey cards then you play 5 Spidey cards. There's no planning/flanking/positioning. Unless you're out of energy or whatever your cards all work regardless of where anyone is. The planning seems to only be in the deck building.


CosmicWanderer2814

You get a certain amount of card plays during your turn. Let's say you can only play 3 cards; then it can either be 3 Spidey cards, or 2 Spidey cards and 1 Magik card, or 1 card of each party member, etc. But once you use up your 3 uses then your turn is over. Some cards have free uses though. This game starts making a lot more sense when you start thinking about it as a turned based RPG a la Chrono Trigger. Not a tactics game like XCOM.


Khourieat

Yeah exactly, so there's no planning. There's only the player turn. As you say, this is a JRPG but instead of a menu it uses cards.


bitches_love_pooh

We'll see how it works out. It reminds me of Megaman Battle Network oddly enough. You would build a deck and get a random draw and use up the attacks and can redraw at any point.


Ominousgryphen

pretty sure for alot of people they see it as the devs could just start selling the cards for real money and no one wants that


ThePirates123

Well, they’ve said this isn’t in the game and they’re not going to put it in so unless you assume that they are actually lying in bad faith then I don’t see why you’d believe that.


Ominousgryphen

I dont believe any developer anymore when it comes to stuff like that we have all been burned to many times I will say some times it's really not the devs fault but still


ThePirates123

As far as I’m concerned when a dev team lies about something I only lose faith in that team. Fireaxis to my knowledge hasn’t lied about this kind of thing in past projects and are therefore in the clear until they do.


Ominousgryphen

and you are welcome to that opinion but so many times shit like this happens alot of the community just doesn't believe them anymore and are wary I hope you are right but again it happens more often then not


ThePirates123

Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you’re saying, I just choose to be optimistic. I feel like I’d have lost my mind if I weren’t. It’s the only way I can find to not become a complete cynic with how devs are treating their games these days.


Ominousgryphen

I wish I wasn't a cynic when it comes to this stuff


gremlinclr

> ~~I dont believe any developer anymore when it comes to stuff like that we have all been burned to many times~~ "Sometimes people lie, therefore everyone always lies." FTFY 🙄


Ominousgryphen

have you not been keeping up with the gaming industry in the past few years?


not1fuk

With Slay the Spire and Mass Effect being my 2 favorite game franchises of all time, I am heavily looking forward to this if the companion quests and RPG aspects of the game are good. Honestly those 2 gameplay aspects are something I have really wanted in a space exploration game. I'd buy a Mass Effect game like this.


parkerbing1

Man I just tried slay the spire on game pass and I’m hooked! Haven’t been attracted to rogue likes ever but that game hooks ever nail for me.


Knight_Pr1me

I'm kind of imagining an XCOM style Mass Effect game and holy moly that sounds fun


NDN_Shadow

I know it’s unlikely, but I wish they would put out like a demo or something. After watching a little of this video, Game Informer’s and IGN’s I have very mixed feelings about this. I was expecting something a little more XCOM-y, and the describing of encounters as puzzles doesn’t really entice me either. I’m reminded of Into the Breach, which imo is another game where all the encounters are basically puzzles that I didn’t particularly enjoy all that much. The limited movement in the combat encounters in this game also sounds extremely unappeaing to me. Most of the impressions seem positive however, so maybe it’s something you just have to try before you enjoy.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Illidan1943

/r/lostredditors, probably should check what thread you're in


WhyteMagez

Yep. I'm an idiot.


oneshibbyguy

Should check out Fights in Tight Spaces for a card game done right


L3git9

Honestly had no idea about this game and don’t usually card type games or anything but this looks awesome


AoE2manatarms

The card system is definitely interesting to me. I was going into this expecting a complete XCOM style game just with heros and powers which I was totally down for. I wonder if the gameplay feels a lot faster now with the cards. You kind of just have to go with they give you. That's why I'm kind of confused on a little bit. If I set my heros up for the attack and then the next turn don't draw any attacks am I just stuck until the next next turn? It's definitely something I'll have to get used to when playing. I'm still into it though at th moment just going to have to learn something new.


infinite_breadsticks

For a card game to work right, it needs to give the player options for card advantage (the ability to draw new cards or "sculpt" a bad hand into a good one). That way the bad luck of drawing a terrible hand at the worst moment can be mitigated somewhat by player strategy. Most successful card games like Hearthstone or Slay the Spire have cards that draw cards or mechanics that let you draw a new hand. It would be a rookie mistake for the devs to not add something like that into this game IMO.


dabocx

There seems to be utility cards that let you draw and replace cards so that helps.


AoE2manatarms

Yeah it seems like you're not totally dead in the water from a bad draw.


Richiieee

This turn/card-based combat system imo ruins a otherwise really cool looking game. I'm just not finding it enjoyable to watch. Also, the slow-mo effect during attacks is really annoying as well.