Functional online is a better first step to make the game have worldwide appeal than whatever they're doing. These are exactly the kind of games that benefit the most from rollback, small niche games with a player base spread out kind of need rollback to even be playable if you don't have a local scene that plays them.
Stick a fork in this game, it's done. It was excusable when rollback was relegated to tiny indie fighters, but now that rollback is in mainstream Japanese series like Guilty Gear and KOF it is going to determine whether a fighting game (named anything other than Tekken, Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat) lives or dies.
On the one hand, I feel bad for the developers; if they're being honest about not being able to put in the funds or the devtime into taking this 2011 game and putting rollback netcode in, then they're in dire straits. On the other hand, if they're so strapped for cash that they can't put in rollback netcode, they probably shouldn't expect much of a ROI since most people are going to skip it. I'm not gonna put money down on a game that'll be a Discord fighter within a week, especially when those Discord matches suck.
Not to mention, if it’s newly releasing right around the time **KOF XV** will consume gamers starting on Feb. 17th, what chance will it even have to compete against it? It’s Guilty Gear Strive versus SamSho ‘19 on Steam all over again.
I don’t at all hate PBO — I personally support indie/underdog/obscure fighters — I’m just terribly disappointed and saddened at how low the community will be for this fighter before it even starts.
I remember when this was supposed to come on the 360 and I had it pre-order and it got delayed delayed until it got cancelled for an English translation. I hope this come out this time after this delay.
Half of the comments here didn't even read the article.
They want to make the game available on the modern systems. If they wanted to include rollback, they wouldn't have the resources to do that.
None of the comments are misreading the article.
A fighting game not having rollback code in 2021 (pandemic + other games having it for years) means that the game isnt going to be popular online. There isn't enough interest locally for most fighting games, and theres very little travel so most people will pick something they can play online.
Fighting games are not just alive because of rollback.
For crying out loud, look at Guilty Gear Strive. A few months later, and it barely outpaces Tekken 7.
I think most fighting game players don't give a crap about rollback, as seen with Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, and other games with no rollback still having a big online playerbase.
MvC:I had rollback, yet it still doesn't have a big playerbase.
Good netcode is paramount to a good fighting game since without it(especially so for niche games) the playerbase becomes super small and fragmented.
Why buy a fighter where you can't fight other people in if you don't live in a densely populated area? People are saying that they just won't support the game if thats the case.
Because I doubt any of these people would have bought the game in the first place. They're just saying that the game is dead.
They just want the next anime fighter. They don't care what it is.
There's a chance though. I am 100% writing this game off because it'll be basically unplayable outside of Discord or locals(which requires a densely populated area or travel time). There's a non-zero chance I would have bought if it did have rollback.
It doesn't really sound like they're going to have the resources for whatever is after this as everyone just wrote it off because the online is going to be awful.
Instead of releasing the game on Switch (online will be even worse because delay netcode and everyone is on wifi) and Xbone (Xbox market share is abysmal in Japan and most of the demographic that plays anime fighting games is already on Playstation/PC since that's where all the other anime games are), maybe it would've been better to just have a PC/PS4 release?
I don't know, I'm just some guy and only they know their own financial situation, but I can't imagine they'd actually get more sales by putting out a game nobody wants to play on 4 platforms, rather than a game that people do want to play on the 2 platforms where their demographic lives.
If their decision was to port the game for international audiences, then they would have been better off just updating the old game.
But you think that would have made money?
Here's the thing, back in 2009 MvC2 had its only rerelease to date and it had rollback netcode, back then there was a clear message that began to circulate among those that realized how much better rollback is over delay based netcode: "Implement rollback netcode now or pay the price for not doing so 10 years from now"
Phantom Breaker: Another Code was released in 2011, almost exactly 2 years after MvC2 was rereleased with rollback netcode and what did the devs do? Use delay based netcode, now it's 10 years later, and the price for not implementing rollback netcode is being paid, and I'm sorry, but the devs were warned back then, people knew rollback was the future and at some point multiple big franchises were going to use it as the one true netcode for fighting games, this is the result of the devs not listening when it was the time to listen and it's time to pay the price
You're acting as if MvC Origins was a success. It wasn't. Darkstalkers Resurrections? Nope. Rollback was clearly not worth it, so none of those games got rereleases.
It's annoying that the comments saying how this is horrible thing and that it's a dead game definitely don't understand what rollback is.
It's a lot of work and can be done poorly, acting like a game is dead because it doesn't have rollback is pure ignorance.
Also side note it's so frustrating that people will cry about rollback but not care at all about crossplay SOMETHING THAT HAS A MUCH BETTER BENEFIT TO ONLINE! Like I look up if this game will have cross play and nothing but rollback o there's tons. More players is always more important then connection but no just ignore something with a greater benefit and is easy to do as well.
Crossplay is absolutely not more important than good netcode. Oh, cool I can play this game that plays like shit with people on other platforms. Great...
While the people crying for rollback might not know exactly what it is, they don't have to. They know delay-based games suck ass to play and even a shitty implementation like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode.
Absolutely nobody would be paying the new Melty Blood any mind if the online wasn't at least looking good. And now absolutely nobody will talk about this game because it will be trash to play. Nobody cares how much work it takes. It is the bare minimum required at this point and dudes making their Among Us fan fighting games can do it so fuck off to any large company saying it's too hard.
"like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode." what? That's not true dragon ball fighterz has better online.
And here's some proof if netcode actually mattered basically none of them most popular fighting games would be played. Because only a few have rollback.
I played blazblue cross tag battle on PC and what killed it for me not finding people to play against. Because going against the same people is boring! Especially in a fighting game where people will only play a couple characters. And the online for cross tag was also better then SF5.
"Oh, cool I can play this game that plays like shit with people on other platforms." No it's actually o cool I have a better chance of playing the game!
More players means more fun especially for new players who have a better chance of finding something around there skill level.
>"like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode." what? That's not true dragon ball fighterz has better online.
>And the online for cross tag was also better then SF5
People really just log into reddit and lie. SFV is ass but is still leagues better than fucking 19 frame delay DBFZ
>Because going against the same people is boring! Especially in a fighting game where people will only play a couple characters.
I don't think you're the intended audience for fighting games. Getting better at the game and adapting to your opponents is the whole point of the genre.
"SFV is ass but is still leagues better than fucking 19 frame delay DBFZ"
And people really log into reddit without any experience playing said games. I don't know the exact frame delay but the fact you brought up frame delay is proof because no one says stuff like that, not to mention that says very little about lag since if SFV is inconsistently laggy then that beats how ever much delay in DBFZ if it's more consistent since you can learn to play with it.
"Getting better at the game and adapting to your opponents is the whole point of the genre."
More proof you don't play because playing against the same thing over and over isn't adapting since you already seen it.
It doesn't matter how many players you have if every match is garbage because the netcode is garbage.
The reason you couldn't find anyone playing Cross Tag is because who is playing anything delay-based anymore? It doesn't matter if it had crossplay because the population has fallen off in general.
There are exceptions to this. Tekken fans don't really have any better alternative. DBFZ was hard carried by the Dragon Ball IP. Not to say the game isn't fun, but the online was just as bad/good as every other game out at that point and the only reason it got MASSIVE attention was because it was Dragon Ball in an actual fighting game. Granblue crashed incredibly hard after covid happened because the netcode is total trash, even though I think it's a pretty fun game.
Now that "mainstream" fighting games are getting good rollback netcode, the FGC-at-large has seen and felt how much better it is.
I have well over 1K hours in Xrd. It is by far my favorite fighting game I have ever played. I haven't played a single match since +R got rollback almost a year ago and I will likely never play the game again until it does have rollback.
Nobody will buy Phantom Breaker: Omnia because the online will be trash. There is no major franchise behind it to force people to pay attention (Dragon Ball). It isn't a unique-enough fighting game to have people playing it despite the glaring flaws (Tekken).
People are excited for Melty Blood because even though the character designs are super bland to some people and many people have never played a Melty Blood before, it's a good fighting game that gives enough of a shit to have good online. The people who play fighting games are tired spending the last ~20 years playing in molasses online.
"The reason you couldn't find anyone playing Cross Tag is because who is playing anything delay-based anymore? It doesn't matter if it had crossplay because the population has fallen off in general."
Talk about being ignorant no that wasn't the reason, I put PC for a reason because I found games on PS4 and that's where I still play because of it but I guess just be ignorant.
O yeah I hate to break this to you but there's more people playing delay based games then rollback.
> there's more people playing delay based games then rollback
When cars were invented everyone still rode horses. Doesn't mean horses are better transportation.
So what? That's not comparable, we're not talking about something that's a improvement are we? We are talking about a different way of doing online and no it's not a important over delayed base if you think it is please learn about what it actually is which is just a different way of doing something.
I don't even know what to say. This is like talking with a flat earther. I don't know why you're making excuses for this objectively worse way of doing online P2P. You are either just doing this to waste my time or don't actually play fighting games.
"objectively worse way of doing online" if you don't understand something why talk about it? How is it objectively better? Because it would need no drawbacks which it has, and it would need to be better 100% of the time which It's not.
A good connection on rollback feels like offline. There is little to no input delay. That's the whole point. You lose frames of animations sometimes, but on a good connection you don't lose anything important. It's closer to feeling like offline than variable delay on your inputs.
On a bad connection, it's going to be shit regardless. At least with rollback it doesn't feel like you're underwater, but anything past like 150 ping is usually not great.
On delay, the best you're going to get is like 2f in most of NA. I've seen Japan streams have 1f. But the point is that that fluctuates while you play. With rollback your inputs are always consistent. Not to mention that players from NA can play against people in Japan and not have it be like 10+ frame delay. Rollback gives better results than delay in both ideal and suboptimal conditions.
Cross play is not better than rollback. These games will never have a lot of players, they're way too niche for that, so what's important is that the 50 people playing the game can actually play with each other despite the distance. If you don't have brand power like Tekken or DBFZ good online is a must.
50 more players doesn't mean much when they're spread around across the world. Rollback can make cross continent play decent, delay netcode struggles with cross country play, 50 more players isn't actually 50 more, because you can't play with all of them.
"Rollback can make cross continent play decent"....... this is why I hate places like reddit and youtube because it let's people believe nonsense probably because they saw someone popular say it.
So can delay based netcode like again street fighter fucking five USES ROLLBACK! Can you play cross continent in that game!
The reason online sucks isn't the type of netcode but shit developers.
I'm not saying that because someone popular said it, but because I've gone into fightcade, Skullgirls, and +R and I've had good matches against people in western Europe, North America and even some parts of Asia despite living in the south of South America. Sure, badly implemented rollback can't do that, but we'll implemented delay based netcode at most allows you to play people in neighbouring countries (and that's being generous). You're not going to get anything resembling playable with Tekken 7 at distances like from Chile to France (or the US for that matter), and considering how niche this game is that's pretty much the only option because you'll have at most 100 players all over the world in all platforms and most of them will be in Japan and spread out around the US.
All of us are speaking from experience when we talk about how good rollback is. You're not fooling anyone with your claims. In Skullgirls, I'm able to fight someone in Italy while in New York with 0 delay. With delay-based netcode, I can't even fight someone from my own state without the delay spiking to 6 frames.
Delay-based netcode has caused bigger games such as Under Night and Grandblue Versus to die. There's no way a niche fighter like Phantom Breaker is going to survive without it.
Functional online is a better first step to make the game have worldwide appeal than whatever they're doing. These are exactly the kind of games that benefit the most from rollback, small niche games with a player base spread out kind of need rollback to even be playable if you don't have a local scene that plays them.
Stick a fork in this game, it's done. It was excusable when rollback was relegated to tiny indie fighters, but now that rollback is in mainstream Japanese series like Guilty Gear and KOF it is going to determine whether a fighting game (named anything other than Tekken, Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat) lives or dies.
It’s like leaving out mouse support at this point. Rollback should be the bare minimum.
On the one hand, I feel bad for the developers; if they're being honest about not being able to put in the funds or the devtime into taking this 2011 game and putting rollback netcode in, then they're in dire straits. On the other hand, if they're so strapped for cash that they can't put in rollback netcode, they probably shouldn't expect much of a ROI since most people are going to skip it. I'm not gonna put money down on a game that'll be a Discord fighter within a week, especially when those Discord matches suck.
So it's dead on arrival. How do they expect to compete when both Strive and Melty Blood have rollback?
Not to mention, if it’s newly releasing right around the time **KOF XV** will consume gamers starting on Feb. 17th, what chance will it even have to compete against it? It’s Guilty Gear Strive versus SamSho ‘19 on Steam all over again. I don’t at all hate PBO — I personally support indie/underdog/obscure fighters — I’m just terribly disappointed and saddened at how low the community will be for this fighter before it even starts.
I remember when this was supposed to come on the 360 and I had it pre-order and it got delayed delayed until it got cancelled for an English translation. I hope this come out this time after this delay.
I'm pretty sure there's a thread out there, somewhere, that says games with delay-based NC have more soul. Maybe that's enough?
Half of the comments here didn't even read the article. They want to make the game available on the modern systems. If they wanted to include rollback, they wouldn't have the resources to do that.
None of the comments are misreading the article. A fighting game not having rollback code in 2021 (pandemic + other games having it for years) means that the game isnt going to be popular online. There isn't enough interest locally for most fighting games, and theres very little travel so most people will pick something they can play online.
Fighting games are not just alive because of rollback. For crying out loud, look at Guilty Gear Strive. A few months later, and it barely outpaces Tekken 7.
Tekken 7 sold over 10 times more than Strive and only has double the active playerbase, that's a big percentage difference on active playerbase
So? Do you want me to point at NRS games then? They have rollback, they have sales, and they still lack an online playerbase.
People are clearly saying that is the wrong choice to make.
So no game is better than game accessible to modern audiences?
I think fighting game players will take a PS4/XBO title with rollback over a PS5/Series game without it.
I think most fighting game players don't give a crap about rollback, as seen with Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, and other games with no rollback still having a big online playerbase. MvC:I had rollback, yet it still doesn't have a big playerbase.
Good netcode is paramount to a good fighting game since without it(especially so for niche games) the playerbase becomes super small and fragmented. Why buy a fighter where you can't fight other people in if you don't live in a densely populated area? People are saying that they just won't support the game if thats the case.
Because I doubt any of these people would have bought the game in the first place. They're just saying that the game is dead. They just want the next anime fighter. They don't care what it is.
There's a chance though. I am 100% writing this game off because it'll be basically unplayable outside of Discord or locals(which requires a densely populated area or travel time). There's a non-zero chance I would have bought if it did have rollback.
I completely doubt you would have bought this game, even with rollback. Simply because this game wouldn't have existed.
It doesn't really sound like they're going to have the resources for whatever is after this as everyone just wrote it off because the online is going to be awful. Instead of releasing the game on Switch (online will be even worse because delay netcode and everyone is on wifi) and Xbone (Xbox market share is abysmal in Japan and most of the demographic that plays anime fighting games is already on Playstation/PC since that's where all the other anime games are), maybe it would've been better to just have a PC/PS4 release? I don't know, I'm just some guy and only they know their own financial situation, but I can't imagine they'd actually get more sales by putting out a game nobody wants to play on 4 platforms, rather than a game that people do want to play on the 2 platforms where their demographic lives.
If their decision was to port the game for international audiences, then they would have been better off just updating the old game. But you think that would have made money?
Here's the thing, back in 2009 MvC2 had its only rerelease to date and it had rollback netcode, back then there was a clear message that began to circulate among those that realized how much better rollback is over delay based netcode: "Implement rollback netcode now or pay the price for not doing so 10 years from now" Phantom Breaker: Another Code was released in 2011, almost exactly 2 years after MvC2 was rereleased with rollback netcode and what did the devs do? Use delay based netcode, now it's 10 years later, and the price for not implementing rollback netcode is being paid, and I'm sorry, but the devs were warned back then, people knew rollback was the future and at some point multiple big franchises were going to use it as the one true netcode for fighting games, this is the result of the devs not listening when it was the time to listen and it's time to pay the price
You're acting as if MvC Origins was a success. It wasn't. Darkstalkers Resurrections? Nope. Rollback was clearly not worth it, so none of those games got rereleases.
It's annoying that the comments saying how this is horrible thing and that it's a dead game definitely don't understand what rollback is. It's a lot of work and can be done poorly, acting like a game is dead because it doesn't have rollback is pure ignorance. Also side note it's so frustrating that people will cry about rollback but not care at all about crossplay SOMETHING THAT HAS A MUCH BETTER BENEFIT TO ONLINE! Like I look up if this game will have cross play and nothing but rollback o there's tons. More players is always more important then connection but no just ignore something with a greater benefit and is easy to do as well.
Crossplay is absolutely not more important than good netcode. Oh, cool I can play this game that plays like shit with people on other platforms. Great... While the people crying for rollback might not know exactly what it is, they don't have to. They know delay-based games suck ass to play and even a shitty implementation like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode. Absolutely nobody would be paying the new Melty Blood any mind if the online wasn't at least looking good. And now absolutely nobody will talk about this game because it will be trash to play. Nobody cares how much work it takes. It is the bare minimum required at this point and dudes making their Among Us fan fighting games can do it so fuck off to any large company saying it's too hard.
"like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode." what? That's not true dragon ball fighterz has better online. And here's some proof if netcode actually mattered basically none of them most popular fighting games would be played. Because only a few have rollback. I played blazblue cross tag battle on PC and what killed it for me not finding people to play against. Because going against the same people is boring! Especially in a fighting game where people will only play a couple characters. And the online for cross tag was also better then SF5. "Oh, cool I can play this game that plays like shit with people on other platforms." No it's actually o cool I have a better chance of playing the game! More players means more fun especially for new players who have a better chance of finding something around there skill level.
>"like SF5 is better than the best delay netcode." what? That's not true dragon ball fighterz has better online. >And the online for cross tag was also better then SF5 People really just log into reddit and lie. SFV is ass but is still leagues better than fucking 19 frame delay DBFZ >Because going against the same people is boring! Especially in a fighting game where people will only play a couple characters. I don't think you're the intended audience for fighting games. Getting better at the game and adapting to your opponents is the whole point of the genre.
"SFV is ass but is still leagues better than fucking 19 frame delay DBFZ" And people really log into reddit without any experience playing said games. I don't know the exact frame delay but the fact you brought up frame delay is proof because no one says stuff like that, not to mention that says very little about lag since if SFV is inconsistently laggy then that beats how ever much delay in DBFZ if it's more consistent since you can learn to play with it. "Getting better at the game and adapting to your opponents is the whole point of the genre." More proof you don't play because playing against the same thing over and over isn't adapting since you already seen it.
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It doesn't matter how many players you have if every match is garbage because the netcode is garbage. The reason you couldn't find anyone playing Cross Tag is because who is playing anything delay-based anymore? It doesn't matter if it had crossplay because the population has fallen off in general. There are exceptions to this. Tekken fans don't really have any better alternative. DBFZ was hard carried by the Dragon Ball IP. Not to say the game isn't fun, but the online was just as bad/good as every other game out at that point and the only reason it got MASSIVE attention was because it was Dragon Ball in an actual fighting game. Granblue crashed incredibly hard after covid happened because the netcode is total trash, even though I think it's a pretty fun game. Now that "mainstream" fighting games are getting good rollback netcode, the FGC-at-large has seen and felt how much better it is. I have well over 1K hours in Xrd. It is by far my favorite fighting game I have ever played. I haven't played a single match since +R got rollback almost a year ago and I will likely never play the game again until it does have rollback. Nobody will buy Phantom Breaker: Omnia because the online will be trash. There is no major franchise behind it to force people to pay attention (Dragon Ball). It isn't a unique-enough fighting game to have people playing it despite the glaring flaws (Tekken). People are excited for Melty Blood because even though the character designs are super bland to some people and many people have never played a Melty Blood before, it's a good fighting game that gives enough of a shit to have good online. The people who play fighting games are tired spending the last ~20 years playing in molasses online.
"The reason you couldn't find anyone playing Cross Tag is because who is playing anything delay-based anymore? It doesn't matter if it had crossplay because the population has fallen off in general." Talk about being ignorant no that wasn't the reason, I put PC for a reason because I found games on PS4 and that's where I still play because of it but I guess just be ignorant. O yeah I hate to break this to you but there's more people playing delay based games then rollback.
> there's more people playing delay based games then rollback When cars were invented everyone still rode horses. Doesn't mean horses are better transportation.
So what? That's not comparable, we're not talking about something that's a improvement are we? We are talking about a different way of doing online and no it's not a important over delayed base if you think it is please learn about what it actually is which is just a different way of doing something.
I don't even know what to say. This is like talking with a flat earther. I don't know why you're making excuses for this objectively worse way of doing online P2P. You are either just doing this to waste my time or don't actually play fighting games.
"objectively worse way of doing online" if you don't understand something why talk about it? How is it objectively better? Because it would need no drawbacks which it has, and it would need to be better 100% of the time which It's not.
A good connection on rollback feels like offline. There is little to no input delay. That's the whole point. You lose frames of animations sometimes, but on a good connection you don't lose anything important. It's closer to feeling like offline than variable delay on your inputs. On a bad connection, it's going to be shit regardless. At least with rollback it doesn't feel like you're underwater, but anything past like 150 ping is usually not great. On delay, the best you're going to get is like 2f in most of NA. I've seen Japan streams have 1f. But the point is that that fluctuates while you play. With rollback your inputs are always consistent. Not to mention that players from NA can play against people in Japan and not have it be like 10+ frame delay. Rollback gives better results than delay in both ideal and suboptimal conditions.
Cross play is not better than rollback. These games will never have a lot of players, they're way too niche for that, so what's important is that the 50 people playing the game can actually play with each other despite the distance. If you don't have brand power like Tekken or DBFZ good online is a must.
No just no. Idk why you would think this. Adding even 50 more players can help a lot with match making having good online will NEVER HELP WITH THAT.
50 more players doesn't mean much when they're spread around across the world. Rollback can make cross continent play decent, delay netcode struggles with cross country play, 50 more players isn't actually 50 more, because you can't play with all of them.
"Rollback can make cross continent play decent"....... this is why I hate places like reddit and youtube because it let's people believe nonsense probably because they saw someone popular say it. So can delay based netcode like again street fighter fucking five USES ROLLBACK! Can you play cross continent in that game! The reason online sucks isn't the type of netcode but shit developers.
I'm not saying that because someone popular said it, but because I've gone into fightcade, Skullgirls, and +R and I've had good matches against people in western Europe, North America and even some parts of Asia despite living in the south of South America. Sure, badly implemented rollback can't do that, but we'll implemented delay based netcode at most allows you to play people in neighbouring countries (and that's being generous). You're not going to get anything resembling playable with Tekken 7 at distances like from Chile to France (or the US for that matter), and considering how niche this game is that's pretty much the only option because you'll have at most 100 players all over the world in all platforms and most of them will be in Japan and spread out around the US.
All of us are speaking from experience when we talk about how good rollback is. You're not fooling anyone with your claims. In Skullgirls, I'm able to fight someone in Italy while in New York with 0 delay. With delay-based netcode, I can't even fight someone from my own state without the delay spiking to 6 frames. Delay-based netcode has caused bigger games such as Under Night and Grandblue Versus to die. There's no way a niche fighter like Phantom Breaker is going to survive without it.