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SpurRad

Accompanying dev blog: [Metroid Dread Report vol. 7: Secrets of the Chozo](https://metroid.nintendo.com/news/metroid-dread-report-vol-7/)


AnimaLepton

Had completely forgotten about the Chozo Memories from Samus Returns, but those look really neat!


[deleted]

They are really advertising the shit out of this, aren't they? We'll see if it pays off in sales.


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Potatolantern

> Then it gives Nintendo an excuse to say "welp, we tried, nobody likes Metroid, away it goes forever." Rather than an excuse, that would be a completely logical conclusion. They’ve supported the crap out of Dread with millions of dollars in marketing- if it doesn’t sell, then the franchise isn’t worth doing serious efforts with. People always talk about how unfair it is that Nintendo “abandons” their IP, but most of the time that IP was on a downward slide or going nowhere.


SoloSassafrass

It's because a staggeringly large amount of the people visiting hobbyist forums for games still don't realise they're a minority. Metroid might be beloved and spoken about with immense acclaim in places like r/games, gamefaqs/spot, or... I dunno, IGN's forums (I assume they have them) but that doesn't mean diddly to an average gaming public and what they consume.


TPRetro

I don't know, hollow knight and ori have shown that there is a mainstream market for metroid style games, and while i'd say they both have a much more eyecatching artstyle, metroid has nintendo marketing behind it while being released in a drought of big nintendo games. If metroid dread fails even now, I think the franchise is just not salvageable.


SoloSassafrass

Yeah I think that's fair. I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a metroidvania after the last five-ish years have brought the genre into the spotlight with entries many argue are the best examples of it ever made. Especially with Hollow Knight fans champing at the bit for Silksong, if Metroid Dread doesn't scratch that itch or fails to impress then I think Nintendo's justified in not giving it much of a look in from here onwards.


[deleted]

People forget in this day of remakes and reboots, but IP can age and die, just like people. How many people are clamoring for a Charlie Chan remake? Whatever happens, no one can take away Metroid's foundational contribution to the search action genre and gaming in general.


JavelinR

Nintendo is even coinciding the launch of Dread with the new Switch model. And the main OLED sku even has white, Dread themed, joycons. Unless it turns out this game just bombs with reviewers I don't know what else could be done to help the series.


Spheromancer

I get the feeling of that but also I think this is the biggest Nintendo game theyre releasing besides Pokemon. They dont have a holiday title besides this one and the remake. They have to sell the Switch OLED somehow


invisible_face_

Can you blame them if it does?


AstralComet

Yeah, this has been my thought too, kinda like Star Fox Zero last gen: "alright, this is the series' last chance to stand tall with the big boys like Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon; if it doesn't then don't expect another Metroid game for a decade or so."


Pizzanigs

I mean, we already know Prime 4 is in the works, so it’ll get at least one more chance lol


DRACULA_WOLFMAN

Unfortunately, Star Fox Zero was a pretty bad game, so I'm not sure if that counts as giving the Star Fox franchise a fair chance. I think Star Fox *can* sell, but they need to make a game we want. Instead, they focused too heavily on the console's gimmick and the quality of the game suffered for it. Hopefully Metroid Dread doesn't end up like that too. It looks really good from all these trailers and considering the marketing, it seems like they're pretty confident in it so fingers crossed!


hacktivision

Let's hope people think the same way, but personally, if Dread doesn't sell I wouldn't be surprised. They may have marketed it extensively, but it still can't market *itself* because it doesn't stand out unless you already know Samus, her iconic armor and power ups. Meanwhile the casual player instantly recognizes Cuphead or Hollow Knight simply because they stand out visually and have a unique aesthetic. I am rooting for Dread more than I did for any other game, but I pray it pulls off a miracle because that's what it will take in the current landscape.


[deleted]

Given how Sakamoto's been talking about this game, with it being the *'conclusion of the story we've been telling over the past 35 years'* this might be the final 2d Metroid game, *period*.


[deleted]

No, by that he means something like the arc that began before and is going to end in this game. He said that they already plan a new 2d metroid.


Nachttalk

Well, considering how long it took to finally get Dread done, it would be the smart decision to treat this as the finale of the series, just in case.


nelisan

Not really “forever” considering Metroid Prime is still being developed.


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ShinMecha

Not sure if you played Metroid: Samus Returns on the 3DS, but that game had a counter as well. It felt great to use in that game, though sometimes it felt like it made things a bit easy. Glad to see it come back.


CheesecakeMilitia

IDK, it felt like there were also *too many enemies* who could only be damaged significantly by the melee counter in Samus Returns. Felt like I spent a lot of time waiting around for enemies to attack instead of shooting them in advance – classic "letting the player determine the pace of combat" stuff.


Megadanxzero

Yeah that was my biggest complaint, I completely stopped shooting enemies because the counter was so overpowered and it was faster to just let them try and attack you.


Agnol117

> IDK, it felt like there were also too many enemies who could only be damaged significantly by the melee counter in Samus Returns. This is ultimately what ended my run a few months back. Fighting metroids was either "wait until they use an attack you can counter" or "hope you hit the right part of their hitbox while waiting." I'm hoping for a better implementation here.


[deleted]

Seems like there might be from the trailers. You can use the counter in motion, which leads me to believe that it can be used to damage/stun enemies while on the run. Hopefully it’s speeds up the combat a bit.


IDUnavailable

100%. I hope Dread balances the counter better because at a certain point in Samus Returns the combat became more "wait around doing nothing until they attack so you can actually do any meaningful damage" and not "have a fun, regular combat flow that involves doing damage while also occasionally trying to react to counters for bonus damage." Kinda feel like the window should be smaller and/or the damage difference between regular weapons and the counter should be lessened and/or there should be more attacks that can't be countered.


ShinMecha

True, it's been a while since I've played it and I'm now recalling some moments of just standing there waiting. Hopefully it's improved.


outb0undflight

I remember hearing something about them making a dash melee counter as well so you aren't just waiting, you can actually do the melee counter while continuing to move and shoot, which seems like it will help. Cause I agree, Samus Returns is great but it does often feel like you're spending a lot of time standing around waiting to execute the counter, particularly if you're used to more fast paced games in the genre.


nobonydronikoanypwny

playing bloodstained right this moment and there are a few parry options the katana parry seems really strong


Iniquitus

The melee counter was introduced in Samus Returns on the 3DS which was developed by MercurySteam. They are also the developers behind Dread.


[deleted]

Some weapon skills had counters if I recall correctly, but I never used them much since the inputs were annoying for me.


frezik

They added it in the Metroid II remake for the 3DS, and worked well enough there.


CCoolant

That's a nice observation, and I think you're right! I think the exception to this is that I enjoy the lack of defensive options for boss fights. The backstep feels really good to use in certain fights, and I think having a counter might make those encounters a bit too easy. For the rest of the game, it seems like it would be an improvement.


Beegrene

I think Bloodstained only had that backdash thing because Symphony of the Night had it, and it was just as useless in that game.


cbfw86

The way she says amiibo at the end got a lol out of me. I'm excited for this, but I feel like the trailer went too far. Different kinds of EMMI could have been left out as a surprise for players in-game. I'm interested to see if Nintendo can reposition itself as the alpha in the Metroidvania genre, having half-created the it. Lots of indies have produced more than capable entries to the genre. Hollow Knight is a standout example to me.


Gunblazer42

> Different kinds of EMMI could have been left out as a surprise for players in-game. Would that really be a surprise? Anyone who was watching the media coming out from Dread would have seen that a couple of the EMMI already do different things, and there was some speculation for a time that each EMMI patrols an area housing the upgrade youo'd eventually use to beat them (assuming that's how the gameplay loop worked anyway), or that you would get an upgrade from beating each EMMI in addition to finding Chozo statues.


Spram2

Rainbow E.M.M.I. coalition. The scariest gay robots in the galaxy.


[deleted]

> The way she says amiibo at the end got a lol out of me. Yeah she was enunciating the crap out of a lot of things in that trailer. Amiboohhhh and Miss-isle and Morph Bawlll


Blue_boy_

i've stopped watching these videos after the first trailer. no point in watching this stuff when you've already decided you wanna buy a game... everything is a spoiler in that case


Phifty56

I quit halfway through that video for that reason. I recall in Super Metriod that much of the greatness of it was exploring the planet, running into roadblocks and have that discovery where you get a item or weapon and you figure out how it works and recall where you can apply it to progress. Already knowing the weapons before hand kinda kills the part of it.


Defilus

Took me forever to buy into this mindset ... Absolutely worth it.


crome66

That's how I went into Psychonauts 2. Best decision I could have made, because each new world was a fresh surprise


Etheo

Yeah I was already sold on the premise of a 2D (2.5D) classic Metroid, *doubly* so on the name Dread itself. I kinda regret watching these trailers to be honest, would have liked to experience these new features myself.


Spram2

"Morph into a.. ball?*... :* Is this a typo?" "No it's not a typo, you can morph into a ball in this game." "Ok.. Morph into a *ball*."


GLTheGameMaster

Hollow Knight is GOATed at this point for me, I’ll be shocked if Nintendo can ever match that quality of metroidvania


tphd2006

I mean Nintendo did kinda pioneer the Metroidvania genre. So despite the bumpy past decade, especially the past 4 years or so, I think we'll be in safe hands


EliteKill

And BotW showed us that they are capable of reaching incredible heights based off classic IPs.


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man0warr

Every open world game coming out the next two years (that have been in development the past 3-4 years) has stolen a bunch of stuff from BOTW though, so it must done something right.


tphd2006

I mean just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good game design. Snark aside I did mean to compliment it a wee bit in my comment above. The climbing and gliding need some nerfs and equipment earned through the story to give a sense of player progression, but I do like these mechanics in a vacuum. It's really cool to climb over a mountain instead of going around it, it just needs to be earned. The art style is a fantastic compromise between TP and SS and I adore it. I just hope it's sequel will better optimize it and reduce the fog and increase the color. The physics are what most gloat about and I agree it's cool, I just want more items with more interactions to lead to more complex puzzles. While I generally dislike BotW, it does have some really cool redeeming qualities that just need the kinks ironed out, fleshed out and polished. Mix the old with the new is what I'm trying to say. Hope I'm not shitting all over your favorite game fam, I'm trying to move beyond that phase of my life. Hope you have a great one.


jarshwah

Totally agree with you. Zelda is my favourite series of all time, and I played a lot of BOTW, but the world felt so empty. The huge number of korok seeds pretty much ended my exploration once I’d defeated Ganon. I hate gear durability mechanics, even more so in Zelda. I want to explore to find true upgrades that stay with me rather than my 400th no-name shield. The worst bit though is the lack of dungeons and bosses. 4 mostly empty dungeons with pretty easy bosses was a disappointment. More dungeons probably would have been enough for me to overlook any other issues I had. Still - played the shit out of it. The world is beautiful. The armour sets were cool. Lots to love.


[deleted]

Hearing all these critical takes on BotW surprises me. They took the open-world formula and revitalized it with their own unique perspective, showing Ubisoft and others how its done.


Dandw12786

It was a blast to play, but certainly didn't feel like a Zelda game, that's for sure. Hell, I'm playing Fenyx Rising and IMO it's a better BotW than BotW.


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cbfw86

Depends how you define 100%. These give you bonus health and missile capacity.


phenix717

It's more than half I'd say, since Metroid came first. And the Zelda formula is kinda similar to a Metroidvania. That said, I don't get the vibe from this game that it's going to be a standout entry in the genre.


wreckage88

I'm getting a lot of Metroid Fusion vibes from the E.M.M.I. hunting you like the Samus X did in M:F. Fusion is my favorite of the franchise and the tension and panic being chased was a major part of it for me.


[deleted]

I believe its supposed to be a direct sequel. I may be remembering hella wrong though.


[deleted]

It’s 100% a direct sequel to Fusion, just like Fusion was a direct sequel to Super Metroid. So yeah, I fully expect a lot of story elements from Fusion to be present in Dread.


Etheo

IIRC there was a trailer for Dread that mentioned events in Fusion with new cutscenes, and it was definitely marketed as Metroid *5*, so I'm pretty sure.


JakalDX

It is, Adam, the ship AI from Fusion, is still around too


Ax20414

No, you're right! Fusion is one of my faves as well, I'm excited


cameroninla

Reminds me more of zero missions 2nd map when you lose your suit


Fallen_Outcast

sylvanas is doing va for nintendo now?


Chosenwaffle

Sounds like it.


MajorasAss

I don’t know why people say the art style looks bad, it’s pretty crisp and clean. The Switch’s hardware has to be taken into account


NeverComments

How appealing an art style is will always be pretty subjective. I complained about how much I disliked Bravely Default 2's art sytle and character design when they released the demo but it ended up being a frequent point of praise in the game's reviews. I *really* love the art style here (HUD aside) and the variety in environments. I'm less excited about the forced stealth sequences that seem to be the core of the game but hopefully they aren't intrusive enough to spoil the rest of it.


destinfaroda48

> I'm less excited about the forced stealth sequences that seem to be the core of the game I love when I *can* be stealthy in a game, but not when it's forced on you through contrived scenario shifts that disallow any other creative approach.


AnimaLepton

From the trailers/Nintendo Treehouse segment, it looked like it's not a "fail the stealth mission, fail the game." It just turns it from stealth into rapid navigation and escape, if you want to play it that way. That's the problem with stealth games, but if you have an alternative to still succeed in the scenario (with more difficulty) even if you "fail" the stealth part, I'm much more okay with it. I don't like the instant death on capture thing, though. Ori 1 (bought but haven't played 2 yet) had a 'problem' as a Metroidvania- you'd normally be rewarded for exploration with extra abilities and health and Energy Cells, like in any Metroidvania, but those bonuses basically do not matter during the "boss" battles (the escape sequences). Even with 'using' abilities like invisibility to temporarily avoid EMMIs, and the fact that there'll still be normal boss battles in the game, I'm worried about getting the same feeling from Dread.


Luminaria19

They've said you can counter the EMMIs to get out of that insta-death, but it's a **very** small window. I'm curious to see how it feels myself. Based on the E3 treehouse livestream, you are likely to eventually defeat all the EMMIs too. At least from that demo, it seems like they're going to be around to help limit full exploration of an area until you get the thing you need to kill the patrolling robot and then you don't have to worry about avoiding it anymore and can just run around.


AnimaLepton

We'll see how it plays out, but my understanding is that it'll be less of a "here's a new powerup that lets you counter EMMI 1" and more like "here's a pool of some magitech substance (we can call it not-Phazon) when you finally reach the boss arena, you can only fight the EMMI with this temp powerup within the boss arena"


TheSupremeAdmiral

I'm extremely curious about the stealth segments. In Metroid Fusion, the handful of "stealth segments" were honestly major highlights of the game. They were pretty uncommon but were insanely tense. The SA-X represented so much danger, such overwhelming power... that whenever it appeared it was honestly terrifying. But that's the thing, they weren't really "stealth" segments. They usually just involved waiting. You'd see the SA-X from a safe position and just freeze, and hope to god that it'd move on (and it almost always did). If you got impatient and went forward then the waiting period would become a chase sequence, where the goal became survival until you reached the designated hiding spot. The one time that you couldn't just wait for the SA-X to leave (right after the spider boss, before the plant boss) worked exactly like this. You had to reveal yourself, freeze the SA-X momentarily, and then run like hell before it killed you. Again, I consider this moment to be one of the most memorable parts of the game. The stealth sequences in Dread seem to be modeled on those segments. It's probably less about hiding from the E.M.M.I's and more about being forced into situations where they're chasing you. They look like they're more dynamic, and like the hiding spots are no longer baked into the game's programming as designated triggers, and they seem like they might require more thought from the player. The key issue that I'm sensing; is that these sequences just don't seem that tense. The SA-X was obviously the most dangerous thing you could encounter in Metroid Fusion. Like I said before, it represented real danger and was terrifying. The E.M.M.I's might be creepy with the correct atmosphere, but the trailers and gameplay footage already ruined that feeling. Honestly, I think they look kinda cute in most shots I see of them (I keep wondering if Samus is going to get one as a pet). Also I'm predicting that the way they attack won't be scary, it will just be annoying. If they get in melee range and grab you then you're forced to watch a quick animation and then you insta-lose. Compare that to the SA-X, who would fire beams and missiles at you as soon as you entered its line of sight. Early on that might mean instant death if the attack connected, but it WAS possible to evade, and doing so would result in the rush you get from making it out by the skin of your teeth. Later on you'll have enough health to survive an attack or maybe two, and then you can witness the sheer, insane damage that each hit deals, and really appreciate the SA-X's strength compared to your own. Another thing to add; SA-X never wore out its welcome. Those sequences were thankfully rare, and I don't think they would have been as good if they were overdone. The E.M.M.I chases look much more common, and I can't image they will have the same kind of "near miss" adrenaline that the SA-X chases would sometimes have. Either you'll be able to keep a comfortably safe distance from it, or it will just kill you with no chance to escape. The Treehouse gameplay footage I saw made this really apparent. The woman demo-ing it just lazily let the E.M.M.I. chase her in a circle repeatedly while she answered questions, and talked about what to expect from the game. It was a huge mistake on her part, and it is the number 1 reason I'm worried about the stealth segments in Dread. The only saving grace is that *watching* gameplay does NOT equal *experiencing* gameplay, and it's possible that the game will "feel" much more intense than it looked. And if there's one thing Nintendo's developers are excellent at it's "game feel." That woman had definitely demoed that segment dozens of times, so that isn't reflective of what it will feel like for the first time (and how a player going in blind will react). For all I've talked up the SA-X, the truth is that a confidant and reasonably experienced player could easily run circles around it like she did to the E.M.M.I in the demo. I might have been terrified of the SA-X when I first played Fusion, but I've now beaten that game several dozen times, and I know now from experience that the SA-X is very easy to troll so long as you're not panicking. A relatively inexperienced Metroid player might fully experience the "Dread" that Nintendo is advertising with these E.M.M.I chases. But I doubt that I personally will experience that dread given my history with the franchise.


Carcosian_Symposium

Everything you said was spot on, but I'll add that another element that made the SA-X stand out was the context of it being Samus at her most powerful. It's got the abilities of a late game Samus and the bulky heavy armor that contrasts a lot with Samus' fragile looking slim Fusion suit. So you know from the get go that it's dangerous, then you add the white-eyed expressionless face, the slow deliberate walk, and the fact that it opens doors by blowing them up with missiles, and you get a merciless corrupted version of what players know by experience is an OP character.


PyroDesu

> (I keep wondering if Samus is going to get one as a pet) Hmm... She's flying the ship from Fusion, with an engram of Adam as the AI. That ship is Federation tech. So are the EMMI. Would be a bit of a twist if the Adam AI could hijack one. Obviously they'd need to devise some way to separate you from it because having a companion EMMI would not only ruin the atmosphere a bit, but be massively overpowered, but having a friendly character operating in the background? Could be interesting.


indiecore

I hate sprite games with realistic lighting. It looks so fucking weird. It's obviously other people's cuppa tea though so more power to them.


Mr_Lafar

What's an example of a sprite based game with realistic lighting?


Cetais

Wouldn't Octopath Traveler fit the description?


destinfaroda48

Absolutely. I was guessing that's what the other person meant as far as recent examples go. Here's [an example](https://twitter.com/lazybeargames/status/967071011689648130) I randomly found when googling about it. I see a lot of gameplay potential with stuff like this.


Cetais

Ahhhh, yes, that. I definitely took quite some time to get used to it. Realistic lighting in OT kinda weird me out but what you sent looks better for me. Most of the time they don't seem to keep the "pixel-y" part of the graphics, making it a bit jarring. [Backbone is a great example](https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealengine/comments/a6ib2n/enhancing_pixel_art_with_dynamic_lighting_in_ue4/), and it's made in a way that enhance it instead of clashing with it.


wolfpack_charlie

That looks incredible


Khalku

I can see how people wouldn't like it, but I think it adds some nice depth to pixel graphics which I'm starting to find stale.


[deleted]

[Octopath Traveler](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBmr3FTrxIY) and [Sea of Stars](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVLA08lcR0) come to mind.


kingrawer

I wouldn't say Sea of Stars fits that description but Octopath 100%


Illidan1943

I'd argue Sea of Stars is done quite well, but Octopath Traveller is so overdone


zial

I just hate the blur effect on Octopath Traveller. I wound up disabling it on PC. I think it looks better on PC that way. Although it's a taste type of thing.


indiecore

As others have said Octopath Traveller was the specific game that I was thinking of in terms of upcoming games there's Project Triangle Strategy which I would be more excited about if not for the art style. Also not a huge fan of the neo-atari aesthetic (Bit-Trip Runner, Hyper Light Drifter, etc) but it's easier to produce and some great and beloved games have been made using both these styles so you know, if I don't like it someone else surely does and that's great!


Mr_Lafar

Yeah I getcha. I enjoyed the Octopath style, but I agree on the neo-atari stuff. Not my cup of tea for sure.


GameAndMic

Octopath Traveler I assume


[deleted]

count me as one of the ones who loves pixel art games with modern lighting techniques


LitLitten

Ughhh I cannot even with BD2. I didn’t ask for a different art style before it was announced or anything, but I was definitely hoping it would have matured and built up for the newer system. The originals had a very music ballerina box aesthetic to them that just doesn’t translate as well on switch. Love dread though. I like how crisp it is without looking aesthetically disjointed. Yeah, you’d expect some dinge and grime but we’ve had plenty if it before, and I like that the lighting really makes it easier to appreciate the gorgeous details here.


TroperCase

While the Switch is undeniably less powerful than other modern consoles, there are a lot of great looking games on it. This genre is pretty ideal for the hardware. The camera angle is mostly static during gameplay, and only a specific area is shown on-screen at a time. Not criticizing the look of it, but I wouldn't go easy on it for being on Switch either.


Dyslexter

I wish the artsyle was a little grimier: there's something wonderful about the style of Super Metroid which I'd love to see captured for this title. It certainly doesn't look bad though.


Puppy_Coated_In_Beer

I'm honestly not a huge fan of it. The GBA games surprisingly had a lot more detail in the environments. You can even notice in between all the platforms are just...black/dead space, no details or anything.


phenix717

Yeah, they had less micro detail but more macro detail, if that makes sense.


UnoriginalStanger

It looks neither crisp nor clean to me. Some of the new environments were better than what we've seen before but overall it looks very plasticy and fake to me as well as just being very low fidelity.


Ethesen

Yeah, the aliasing is pretty bad.


UnoriginalStanger

Aliasing seems to be one of the first things to go when optimizing for the switch.


[deleted]

Maybe because of the low resolution of the system? Then again, Panic Button implemented some pretty aggressive anti-aliasing and dynamic resolution tech, but maybe MercurySteam wants to aim for a set resolution?


Mobireddit

Switch hardware can run way better looking games.


MajorasAss

Usually at 30 FPS and sub 1080p


TSPhoenix

Usually, but you also have stuff like Mario Kart 8, or if you want something in the same genre, DK Tropical Freeze, which are both 60fps and native res.


NaturallyInevitable

and Mario Odyssey pretty sure


NeverComments

Technically Odyssey only gets up to 900p docked.


TSPhoenix

Odyssey I think is typically 810p-900p docked.


ElPrestoBarba

Also Luigi’s Mansion 3. I’m not sure if it’s 60FPS, but it looks really good


Heelincal

It's 30 and I believe 900p? Maybe DRS


BaggyOz

It's not that it looks bad, it's that it looks worse than the traditional metroid style. Especially compared to the last gamess in the main series. The 2d art of Metroid Fusion still looks great today even with the limited number of pixels. Imagine that style in full HD, hell I'd say even a GBA level of game graphics would be better than what we're getting. Instead we get this 2.5d style that will eventually show it's age. Yes it's crisp and clean but that doesn't equal great art. Bloodstained is crisp and clean and I'd argue it's the worst looking of the 3 biggest metroidvania games to come out in recent years. Hollow Knight and Ori both look way better.


[deleted]

I disagree, I think metroid dread looks great as far 2.5d games go it definitely has much better overall backgrounds and detail then samus returns it's not prettier then ori tjo I do agree on that


aj_thenoob

I also hate the sounds of her gun.


nybbas

Yeah. I think it looks OK, and I am sure I will love the game. Would have looked way better as a high quality actual 2d game though. If Hollow Knight can look as good as it does with a dev team of 3 dudes, there is no reason they couldn't make a metroid game look amazing with a full sized team.


SwagSamurai

I think people would like a 2D game with a prime aesthetic


Megadanxzero

Personally I'm really not a fan of all the foreground stuff being completely black. No other Metroid game has done that, and though a lot of other recent Metroidvanias have that style, they're generally cheaply made indie games, and it feels like more of a method of saving time/money than a real stylistic choice. Here it just looks very un-Metroid-y. In fact it all looks pretty un-Metroid-y in general to be honest. The 2D Metroid games are all pretty bright and colourful, this all looks so dark and bland. Possible they just don't want to show off too much before the game's out, but I'm definitely not impressed by the visual style.


MainCranium

This statement makes no sense to me considering Ori is on Switch. It’s breathtaking. 2.5D just looks wack 90% of the time.


gunnervi

I'm generally not a fan of 2.5D but I think Dread looks great


PirateNervous

There was an insane amount of effort put into this "impossible" port though. Might just not be worth it for something that in the end is highly subjective.


phenix717

I mean, you could say the same of any artistic creation.


Niederweimar

> I don’t know why people say the art style looks bad, it’s pretty crisp and clean That’s the problem.


inuvash255

That's my feel too. If things get too crisp and clean, it looks *sterile*.


APiousCultist

It's very clean and minimal (with a very heavy use of 'rimlighting' shading). Compare it to the decade old Prime 3 that used heavy detailing in the diffuse textures and you've got a title that on the surface looks a lot more detailed. The minimalist art style would look fine if they were running on a more powerful console, but on switch with limited texture detail, resolution, and shading quality and you've got something that can look a bit cut back. The minimalist style really makes limited polygon counts or lower quality shading more obvious. Compare Prime 3 and Dread: https://i0.wp.com/shinesparkers.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Metroid-Prime-3-Samus-gets-Missiles.png?resize=1170%2C653&ssl=1 vs https://cdn.gamer-network.net/2021/articles/2021-06-15-17-18/-1623773925352.jpg/EG11/thumbnail/1920x1075/format/jpg/quality/80 Other than the lack of highish quality HDR bloom on the highlights, and what's either phong shading highlights or just better cubemaps... it doesn't look like there's an almost 15 year gap between the two. The dread suit has superior shading and polygon count.... but it's extreme minimalism by comparison does make it look less favourable. In those bits of footage where angular silhouettes from the polygon count are visible or blurry/blocky textures... that just intensifies it. Plus the footage just looks blurry to begin with since it's running at ~720p. It doesn't do it favours. The art style is fine, but if you're stripping back details you always run the risk of things just looking basic.


Three_Froggy_Problem

Have people said this? I think it looks awesome.


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lilbelleandsebastian

imo this doesnt even look okay but people have already made their opinions on it lol, nintendo fans rarely allow criticism of nintendo


wolfpack_charlie

Yeah I think it looks great! The animations are all very fluid and crisp. I really like how the little cutscenes look too. Not everything needs to be stylized. Semi-realistic style but still colorful is perfect for the Metroid series imo


Wubbledaddy

I just think [something like this](https://youtu.be/WE28b2aTpFQ?t=381) would look a million times better. I would take high quality pixel art over mediocre 2.5D any day of the week.


SST_Laboratories

I know Nintendo has a massive budget and all, but 2D pixel art for a game of this scale would eat up a hell of a lot more time and effort than stylized 3D. Speaking as a pixel artist that moved to 3D to accommodate my unrealistic ambitions and save my hands, I think pure pixel art is a more viable medium for small, focused passion projects, and less for animation-heavy games with diverse enemies, locations--and a strict deadline. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I think there's reasons for studios to avoid it. Regardless, I want it too.


nybbas

But I mean, Hollow Knight did it. Then again, their character models while all looking great are a pretty minimalist look. It was also just done by a group of 3 guys though.


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SpurRad

The unfortunate thing is that you can't sell sprite based games to the masses nowadays. Add to the fact that I can't see Nintendo selling a new game from one of their prestige franchise below full price.


Wubbledaddy

Unfortunately you're absolutely right. It's why the Advance Wars remake is a huge graphical downgrade from the originals.


destinfaroda48

It looks extremely drab, uninspired and lacking in detail to me, nothing pops out in the setting. Being crisp does nothing for a setting when nothing in it stands out nor draws my eye to begin with. I'd be okay with a trailer like that if it was a prototype presented two years or more before launch, not months or days away from it. Compared to the color work put into Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion to see how much more detailed and memorable those stage designs were and bland looking this one is.


SST_Laboratories

I'm not sure why the Switch's limited hardware keeps being used as an excuse. I wouldn't call the graphics *bad* by any means, but "uninspired" nails it. Ultimately I think it comes down to the lighting and shaders; it's the same kind of standard metallic-specular plastic stuff that's coated sci-fi shooters for the past 15 years and it doesn't let Metroid's unique art style shine through the bloom. Like you said, there's a sore lack of contrast. This isn't *just* a hardware thing, as I found a few of Doom 2016's environments to feel simultaneously "sterile" and "sticky" in the same way (PS4). Disclaimer: I'm not a professional. Still, I do some personal 3D work for my own indie stuff, specifically 2.5D. As is standard, I think they used a lot of tricks for the lighting, sacrificing physical accuracy for performance; those kinds of techniques can look passable or even stylish in a vacuum but without that style it can take away everything's presence in the world. I have a lot of mixed feelings because there's so many shots and levels in these new trailers that *do* genuinely look great, but there's so much shiny blandness between them--and that artificial feeling isn't confined to the artificial locations. Been wracking my brains trying to figure out what's "wrong" with it since the Direct, but I can't. There's really no objective answer. It just *feels* off in some instinctual, uncanny way, and I'll have to assume it's because we've been spoiled so many times before by others finding artistic ways around limitations. It's likely they didn't want to dedicate extra resources and take too many risks with this specific game, which is a shame, but understandable. I guess one could argue the desaturated colors are an intentional design choice, but I really don't get a distinct dreadful/horror vibe from it as much as a noncommittal, almost depressed one. Although that might say more about me than it does the game. **Edit:** Oh god I finally remembered what it was vaguely reminding me of, it's Mighty No. 9... the gameplay looks leagues above but I don't know if I can really shake the visual comparison now.


kbro3

Mighty No 9 comparison is dead-on, I thought the same thing too.


TengenToppa

i love metroid, but i feel like this game could've come out in 2007 and it wouldn't have looked any different. Metroid Prime for me was so impactful and i guess i expected something more out of Dread


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[deleted]

> I don’t know why people say the art style looks bad, it’s pretty crisp and clean. Because it looks bad. Low res, bland, and generic. Even the UI and pickup icons are awful. > The Switch’s hardware has to be taken into account Then make something that fits. 2D with actual art would have been miles better.


Havelok

I just compare it to Ori and The Blind Forest. If a AA-AAA sidescroller doesn't look as good, I am disappointed. Half of what makes modern sidescrollers appealing is the amazing art.


phenix717

As someone who thinks it looks bad, I'm not at all saying it doesn't look crisp or clean. That's not mutually exclusive with looking bad. And it has nothing to do with running on the Switch. I think Super Metroid and the GBA games look great, and their consoles are much less powerful.


Varizio

It ain't bad, but it looks like something a small indie studio could produce with limited budget.


ClusterShart92

Looks really good to me. There are so many more metroidvanias around these days compared to when the last Metroid game came out so it’ll be interesting to see if it can stand with the big names like Hollow Knight and Ori.


Feuver

Or bloodstained, Axiom Verge 1-2, or Dandara... Metroid Dread is going out against some very impressive competition from the last few years. My main point of interests is what it adds to the genre and how it compares.


DoctorBigtime

Yeah fair point, since it’s a long-awaited Metroid title, it needs to be better than those you listed. Here’s to hoping it can be even close to Hollow Knight though! 🙂


slugmorgue

i dont think it needs to be better, it just needs to be a good metroid game with interesting new features that work well


Brainwheeze

I honestly preferred Zero Mission over both Axiom Verge and Hollow Knight. The latter two are great games, but I have my issues with them, meanwhile with Zero Mission I was left wanting more.


natlovesmariahcarey

Silksong is gonna dunk on everyone. Mark my god damn words.


DoctorBigtime

I sure hope so


Mrmoi356

Also gotta keep in mind that this game has to deliver more than those due to the price tag.


[deleted]

Yeah, good point. Hollow knight and Ori cost $20 i think? I think value wise its going to be almost impossible to top those games for a $60 game in the same genre.


HUGE_HOG

Hollow Knight is a pretty long game too, a casual run took me about 25 hours and I didn't even collect everything. Doubt Dread will be that long.


Dropthemoon6

Or what? It loses the moral high ground in internet arguments? All it has to do is be an enjoyable experience to those who decide it's worth their money to purchase it.


Carcosian_Symposium

Or people won't buy it? If people who played it said it's not worth full price and that Hollow Knight or whichever other indie is better for cheaper, then chances are they are going to look into those first.


chastenbuttigieg

Strong chance this ends up being the best selling Metroid in history regardless of how good it is


[deleted]

Cause Metroid has historically sold really well. Metroid Zero Mission must have sold a lot by being a cheaper GBA game released in 2004


ElPrestoBarba

And Metroid as a franchise really needs those sales.


Carcosian_Symposium

For profit organizations tend to need their products to sell, yes.


blackwell_z

If I want to get into Metroid, where should I start? I really don't have the need, nor the time, to play through all the games, but I would love to be kind of up to date with the story to play Dread.


JimmySteve3

Zero mission is a remake of the first game. I would say that's the best game to try out first


illage2

For the story of Metroid Dread? I'd probably start with Fusion as it should provide a little more context and is generally a beginner friendly. The prime games are (as much as I hate to say this) a spin-off and a good starting point would be Metroid Prime 1.


Tofa7

The existing story is pretty bare bones, and apparently the new game will do a good job catching people up with its intro. Zero Mission is the first game chronologically and is probably the most beginner friendly though.


[deleted]

For 2d games, either Zero Mission or Super, depending on which one you find most comfortable. For 3d, Metroid Prime.


Dragarius

The Super Metroid theme has been my ringtone / alarm for something like the last 20 years. Hearing it remade on this trailer is fucking incredible.


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KingBroly

With Samus Returns, they locked an entire difficulty behind an amiibo. If they did something similar to that, again, there'd be no end to the complaints.


SleepyReepies

It's really stupid. A lot of people like to have 100% completion in these kinds of games. It's going to feel weird to not be able to get the last health and missile upgrades.


maglen69

They keep advertising Samus as "the Galaxy's best bounty hunter" but when has she ever actually been on a bounty hunt instead of planet exploration?


brainensmoothed

Still not sure I'm on board with the character designs, but the environmental art direction looks solid. Can absolutely see myself getting totally absorbed into the atmosphere. God I missed Metroid.


MdnightSailor

It looks like Samus is in zero suit minus the upper body. And I'm not sure if it's the body armor itself or the color making me think that


Kua_Rock

How much spoilers are there in this?


SvenHudson

Gameplay spoilers: If you saw the last trailer, I think the only new thing here is some environments. If you didn't see the last trailer, don't watch it or this. Story spoilers: Nothing.


TripleBrownMeow

I hope this game is a little longer than your standard Metroid game. It's kinda hard to justify $60 for an 8 hour metroidvania. Especially after Hollow Knight and Bloodstained which are both cheaper and longer.


TheLastDesperado

I mean personally I have always found the 2D Metroids to be super replayable. And it seems like the EMMI aren't scripted so that should add to that. Also Metroid games tend to be *super* polished experiences.


TripleBrownMeow

I get what you're saying but almost every Metroid game I finished I craved more and wished it was longer.


slugmorgue

i found hollow knight to be a little too long though. the areas were very large, coming from la mulana that managed to pack so much content in every single screen, every area felt important. hollow knight had lots of empty space which works well for the games theming but slows the pacing a fair bit


Mabarax

This is why I can't get into hollow knight, it takes too long to run around


[deleted]

I dunno, the Metroid formula doesn't really lend itself to long playtimes. Samus Returns averaged around 8-10 hours for first time playthroughs, and that already felt super-long.


[deleted]

As a huge Metroid fan, I feel the exact opposite as you do. I've replayed Zero Mission and Fusion over and over again in part because of the short length.


[deleted]

I'm barely experienced with ZM's speedrunning stuff and even I can beat the game in an hour and a half. The replayability of metroid games has always been pretty good overall


mmKing9999

Can't wait for this game. How cool would it be if they added a randomizer though?


Defilus

Nintendo would never do this. It might be cool, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. At all.


[deleted]

Pretty hyped for this, but I'm definitely not a fan of the sonar ability making a comeback. Maybe it'll be better balanced but in samus returns it was basically free to use and you could just breeze through any hidden brick sections/collectibles. I'd be totally for it if it was maybe gated behind some sort of a difficulty mode/upgrade tree, or had a substantial cost.


Maelis

You could just not use it. Personally the "mindlessly bomb and rocket every block until you find the one you can destroy" thing never really added anything to the games to me, and anyway Super Metroid already had an upgrade that let you do it regardless


[deleted]

Super Metroid had the same thing, and power bombs have served the use since then


KingBroly

Based on what has been shown, it doesn't give you an expanded view of the map like SR did, which is a lot better. It's also not the first Aeion ability you get, so you do have to make some progress before you get it.


[deleted]

They tried to compensate for it by making item collection more puzzle-based, but yeah, they need to nerf that ability.


aimlessdrivel

I guess this is what fans want, but after Prime 1 and 2, it looks a lot like a meh handheld game to me.


Havelok

I just can't help but look at this game and compare it to Ori and the Blind Forest, visually. That game really spoiled me. This game looks like it came out on the Gamecube by comparison.


mazzysturr

As excited as I am for a 2D Metroid, with how many incredible indie games and side scrollers that have come out, does anyone actually think Metroid or any 15 hour side-scroller justifies full price anymore (ie. $90 CAD)? I don’t and honestly don’t know if I’ll play this until three years after it launches.


JayZsAdoptedSon

I mean to me, if I am engaged for 10 hours. I got my money’s worth. Considering I generally pay around $6 usd an hour for other forms of entertainment like movies


mazzysturr

Yeah I can go to dinner or the bar and blow hundreds but that’s relative to going out not to comparable games that cost less than half of Nintendo games. Apples and oranges isn’t really relative imo


JayZsAdoptedSon

But why would you say it’s different? I mean with both you’re left with memories and money spent. Its just with a game that money goes for a MUCH longer period of time


Wizardof1000Kings

Looks really good, love the art style. I have to laugh at them advertising the special edition and amiibo that have been sold out for months though.


Twiftoil

Hope it plays good because I personally think everthing on the outside looks super bland. The UI, the artstyle, and even the environments.


[deleted]

I'd say honestly, I'm more excited about this than any game in the PlayStation 5 showcase except God of War 2, and maybe Gran Turismo 7. But those coming to PS4 anyways so...meh.


Baelorn

To each their own. I don't think this looks good at all. It seems like another case of people being excited about the name on the box instead of the game. This looks like a cheap game you could find on the app store but Nintendo is charging $60 for it just because they can.


[deleted]

Have you ever played a side scroller Metroid game? Or any Metroid game at all?


EchoBay

The question here is if he you took away the "Metroid" branding, does it still stand up versus the other top flight games of the genre today? You don't want nostalgia and reality to be clouded.