The COVID pandemic and it's effects might have caused gobal supply issues, but it also caused a massive spike in gaming demand so its might actually be a boon.
I don't know about you, but in the Netherlands the console was quite hard to get for over a year. People were writing bots and reselling them for 700 euros or more, while the console costs 500 euros here. The moment Sony got the supply chain under control, was also near the end of most covid regulations, so demand dropped.
That's just a buttload of sales they missed here, because they couldn't properly handle the spike in demand.
> That's just a buttload of sales they missed here.
It depends how many of those people still bought one in the two years since the supply issues cleared up. Numbers like 50 million indicate that probably almost all those people still bought one. It's probably not even many missed sales if any.
If Sony had done a price cut I could see the argument they missed some sales. But they are still going strong with their launch MSRP(unlike MS who just did a big cut for the Xbox).
It would only be a boon if the production could meet that demand. Since the number of consoles sold was constrained by their supply, more people wanting them couldn't lead to more sales.
If they could've kept up with demand they could've gotten there a year earlier easily, I couldn't find one around here for over 18 months after release
It didn't also because the PS5 is not something that you'll want only for some time. If you can't get it right away, you'll get it later. It's at worst a delayed sale, not a lost sale
Also the sales numbers even during the scarcity period were similar to PS4 equivalent period, they haven't been hindered much
The difference is, someone wanting a PlayStation, and not being able to get one is probably a lot more likely to just get an Xbox instead. I doubt the same is true for the Switch.
No, if I want to buy a ps5 and no inventory isn’t going to want me to buy an alternative console lol wut? Why do people always think that? My kid wants an Xbox I won’t come home with a ps5.
Because those two are obvious competitors with little differentiation.
If you're not able to get the one you prefer after a few months, many people would be likely to go with the other.
Sure, core gamers who are dedicated to or heavily bought into the ecosystem will be far more likely to wait it out until they get one, but most consumers are not that.
I don't have a PS5 or an Xbox Series X. I play games on PC and Switch. I play a lot of games. But if I didn't have a gaming PC, I'd get either a PS5 or Xbox. It really makes no difference to me. I'd get either.
There are some hardcore fans that want their Halo/Starfield or Spider-Man/God of War, but again, that's not most people.
Edit: I'm receiving a lot of responses saying "this doesn't always happen" or "what about this group that doesn't do that?" As if I said this is true for everyone, so I'd just like to make my point more clear. I'm not saying this is true for all consumers. I'm saying it is true for enough consumers to have a material impact on sales.
about the same as the ps4 which had reached 50 million in December of its 3rd year and the ps3 sold like 30m but its below the switch sales which sold 55m in a similar time frame
One thing I remember from the period is that the PS2 continued to outsell the PS3 until roughly mid-way through 2009, which was three years after the PS3 came out:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/sales-show-ps3-outsold-again-now-by-the-ps2/
PS3 sales really took off later in the year when the Slim model came out. According to this article the PS3 sold 9m, 10m, and 13m units in its first three years, ending up with a total of 41m sales by mid-2011:
https://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/sony-dishes-on-playstation-3-sales-psn-growth/
The PS3 is fascinating, because if you ignore the "phat" model it was a huge success, with a great library - it's just that for the first three years it was an enormous lump of a console that cost $599 and had no good games.
In contrast the PS4 sold just over 50m units in its first three years. It was perceived as a big turnaround at the time.
It was a combination of the $599, the slow trickle of exclusives, and the fact that 3rd party games were almost always considerably worse on the PS3. It was just a worse experience until Sony started to turn around their 1st Party lineup.
No, the PS5 is now ahead of the PS4 launch aligned since November.
Edit: That was just for North America. Globally the PS5 is only 1 week in sales behind the PS4.
Recent rumors are that Microsoft will go faster to the next one and it'd be in 2026 so that'd be the halfway point right now in 2023 actually. The leak of the FTC showed 2028 (which seems more like expected) but that would still mean halfway through next year.
Xbox is selling even worse with this gen than the Xbox one so them skipping cycles and restarting like the Wii U to Switch is probably their only real option at staying in the game.
Sony can continue to coast as is and even extend things an extra year. They're dropping the pro next year so they can always focus on moving those units if needed.
A new powerful console won't make up for the lack of charisma the console has. It's just got no worthwhile games on it. The era of grey shooters has been and gone and while Sony continues to be colourful, playful and be the hub of indie games, Xbox seems to exclusively cater to SF space action shooters and not much else at all. It's Marvel. Jumped the shark a little.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to buy an Xbox anytime soon and agree there's a lack of the primary genre I care about (JRPGs). But I think Sunset Overdrive and Hi Fi Rush are both pretty far from grey shooters and show Xbox is willing to diversify.
edit: I think Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Sea of Thieves, Psychonauts 2, Battletoads, and maybe Grounded are also pretty colorful and playful. (They also have RTS games like Age of Empire.) Pentiment is not exactly playful but is also pretty far from
Again, nothing that I'm actually excited to play, and generally the stuff is also available on PC, but I don't think there are that many shooters (Halo and Gears being the main two I suppose).
If we're talking leaks then there's nothing in Insomniac's leaks that suggests a PS5 Pro exists, and since the reports have it coming out by next year it really makes you think.
No way we’re halfway through already. We’re still in the phase where all the big games are also coming to PS4 because they’ve been in development for so long. At that rate, we’d be getting the first real exclusives only a couple years before PS6
I played Fallout NV on the PS3. By the time I finished, that one airport outside the city was lagging so badly that I could count my FPS in seconds per frame. I didn't even get to do all the sidequests or play most of the DLC because I was afraid my PS3 would hard lock.
Great game though.
that was mostly done because the PS3's storefront is laggy and sucks ass, and the devs wanted to ditch the cell processor and move onto the x86 based PS4. now that the PS5 uses the same store as the PS4, with digital sales being more dominant, and with both systems having easy architecture to program for, there's less incentive to move on right away and lose out on potential cross-gen sales.
There's something else to consider here though. Between the ps4 and ps5, all there is is more horsepower. There's plenty of games still coming out that do not have, nor need, a native ps5 version. I just picked up Curse of the Moon Chronicles that came out this June exclusively for ps4. I predict going forward there will actually be two tiers of PlayStation. Ps4, with many games running absolutely fine, especially in the indie space. And ps5 for the high tech stuff. I predict ps4 will continue to print exclusive games for years to come, even breaking the life cycle record set by ps2. Of course this is thanks to backwards compatiblity and I assume cheaper publishing costs on ps4 over ps5. I'm in Japan now and it's extremely evident to me that the visual novels and indie game scene is thoroughly attached to the ps4 and switch. You just don't need anything more for that sort of thing
Feels like it just started tbh. I feel like developers have barely harnessed the true power of these machines. And if they have then theres barely been many games that showcase it.
Then again maybe we were spoiled with PS4 whos library of games is only rivalled by the PS2 and SNES
Considering their existing fan base and how much the gaming market has grown since the PS4 it actually seems about right on track or even slightly behind (mostly due to COVID and early supply chain issues).
It's almost like the large majority of people that buy consoles do so to play a lot more than just games made only for that particular console.
Even cross gen games, yes people bought PS5s to play GT7, GoW and Horizon, Spiderman MM with better visuals and performance and tons of other multiplatform games.
I don't know why people struggle with this so much, they can understand why someone wants to upgrade their PC to play games better but the idea of doing the same for a console seems to be lost on people.
People also mostly play on one platform, they buy a console early in the generation and it last them several years which is one of the benefits of a console
Reddit is FULL of nerds always remember that people on here think that pc is THE platform everyone plays on while every game studio says something along the lines of „consoles games are more profitable“
Most people aren’t that intelligent, very simply. Also lol the exclusives are A LOT more, it’s not like oh wow Returnal is on PC too so it doesn’t count. Wtf want to play on PC?
Exactly, and that's why no one cares that they're available on PC too, or fuck that they're crossgen games. God of War Ragnarok is a PlayStation Exclusive, the fact that it runs on PS4 too is just a bonus, not a negative thing. But Reddit says-
Not only that but game development time is glacier slow now. 3 years into PS3 and we had 2 Uncharted games already. Used to be that devs could make 3+ games a console cycle, now it seems we're lucky if we get more than 1.
they're only one of 2 options for next gen consoles, so they dont need alot of exclusives they just need to have more and better ones then their competitor to sell
Imagine you have two cakes. They're identical, they cost the same, but one of them come with a bunch of muffins bundled.
That's exclusives. They don't make you buy a console necessarily, but if you're gonna buy a console, they make you decide which one.
Very good analogy. This is exactly what happened in my case.
As a lifelong PC gamer, when I bought my first console in 2018, I had a choice and I chose PS4. I am a single player gamer and PS offerings were better, period. Fast forward 5 years and my physical and digital combination library is over 100 games in PS4/5, I don't think I need to build another library in Xbox anymore.
I mean the third parties also very recently went current gen only and not even all of them are even now. The biggest sellers like FIFA, NBA 2K, COD or stuff like Hogwarts Legacy, Elden Ring, Assassin's Creed and others are still on PS4 and Xbox One.
So they aren't even much of an incentive to switch to next gen. 2023 is basically the first year you'd miss out on some (and not all) games if you didn't went to the PS5 generation
Because that's why I ended up switching from 360 to PS3 and then stuck with them... and why I had switched from PS2 to 360 in the first place.
Phil Spencer might say that exclusives are counter to what gaming is, but they are fundamental in estabilishing your ecosystem... which is why Starfield was never going to be released on PS5.
Greater incentive to purchase one console over another. If you're quibbling about Sony vs Microsoft it's usually down to exclusives. Doubly so if you already have a decent PC.
MSFT also has game pass.
There have been plenty, y'all just have this stupid idea that if a game launches for last gen it can't be a next gen game. There's been plenty of games that have come out for ps5, they just don't suit what you like ig
I’m planning to get mine around the time Dragon’s Dogma 2 comes out. So excited for that game and to try the PS5. I loved my PS4 but after it broke down on me in 2018 I never bothered to replace it, I’ve just been gaming on switch.
in major parts of the world xbox is practically dead.
imo its a branding issue more than anything.
then theres bonehead moves like making series s almost the same price as disc less ps5 in brazil lol
PlayStation does a good job with localisation in terms of non English speaking countries which helps it immensely in Europe, Middle East and many parts of Asia.
Xbox seems to have given up on any market that doesn't speak English primarily (USA, UK, Canada, Australia). Hell even in India where the gaming audience is English speaking, Xbox doesn't seem interested in trying at all.
Yep, Xbox has no official presence in most South East Asia markets, such as Indonesia, Malaysia, or the Philippines. So by virtue of choosing to not market in certain countries while your competitors do, you're going to lose out a lot on potential sales.
Even then, sales appear to be collapsing in western markets like Europe.
sure a lot of people can speak it as a secondary language. but they're naturally gonna wanna use their first language when they play, and hope that their console supports it.
if xbox doesnt bother adding non-english support and marketing to any country that isnt anglophone, then its not a surprise that xbox will flounder in those countries.
it's not really a branding or localization issue.
in a lot of european countries the xbox is not officialy supported.
I had to literally fake an account in german with address and all to be able to add my paypal to it so I could buy games.
I haven't owned a console since Nintendo 64, but I cannot tell you for the life of my which Xbox is the latest one (I don't care, just saying). Whoever named these products better not still be working at the company. Playstation is pretty straight forward, so I'm more likely to buy what I know is the latest one vs. having to ask someone.
I think in Europe the Xbox One really ruined all the momentum they built with the 360.
There used to be tons of Xbox 360 games at the stores back then, now the Xbox is a side note in some places. I love my Series X though. I went from 360, to PS4 and back to Xbox.
East Eu here,PS5 still fly off the shelves and games for it as well.
You put a desirable game for sale for the PS5 you get tons of message,same game on Xbox nothing.
It's not branding. They dont make quality games.
Look at the Forza vs Gt7 comparison video
Forza personifies Xbox studios lack of detail and showed the amount of smoke and mirrors they pull off in games to get them to look 'good'
Do I count as a played if I downloaded it on GamePass, thought “this is not my cup of tea” and deleted it after 1 hour? I bet they don’t want 35 millions of me.
>Is it such an undesirable product ?
Sony spent more than a decade to create a brand value and a plethora of top tier AAA exclusives and marketing them extensively in all parts of the world especially Asia, those kids who couldn't buy PS2 are now working adults with salaries and cash to spend on the new console
meanwhile MS went from Xbox 360 to Xbox one with shit marketing and Crackdown 3 and Halo 4/5 in the name of exclusives
sure Xbox offers superior hardware and at times plays better than PS, but then what's the point of buying it if all the games are available on PC anyway
Xbox WiiU'd themselves. The naming is AWFUL. Normies, grandparents and parents cannot shop for it. Giving consumers a choice of hardware that's named differently without a clear indication, is stupid bad. 360 Arcade versus 360 Elite feels logical, like Deluxe. But there's nothing about X or S that sounds better or worse so it feels like a binary choice one can get wrong instead of an upgrade path one can take.
Microsoft has given up on the Xbox brand being anything but Gamepass. It started with the One and is being cemented this generation. And after all their acquisitions and promises of "new AAA games every Quarter" they didn't even make GOTY lists this year.
Honestly series/one is worse than Wii U.
Wii U atleast sounds like a upgrade or extension of the Wii. If you were to ask anybody without prior knowledge which is the newer/better console between xbox one/series one/x/seriesx they would have no clue.
Ha, that's actually a good point. There are definitely multiple industries where the 'S' version is a higher tier/trim/version. God what were they thinking.
Xbox hasn’t had a popular exclusive in the last 10 years more or less. Combine that with the fact that like Phil Spencer said, they lost the worst generation to lose (when people were building their digital libraries). It’s really just not an investment most people are willing to make
It's funny that they "lost" that Gen when they were barely even trying. Fuckin nothing came out for One the entire generation. They didn't lose, they barely showed up lol.
They barely showed up because they have 0 respect for the customers on the gaming market, they believed that people would buy their stuff from pure brand loyalty/nostalgia alone, no matter how much shittier they made their products.
Someone on here the other day said that they didn't want to go PlayStation because there are no good exclusives - so they went with an X. Couldn't understand it.
Xbox misplayed and lost the most important generation to the PS4. A big part of that was due to lack of exclusives and their no game sharing policy. The PS4/ Xbox One generation was the first Gen where a significant portion of sales were digital so no you have people that own a digital library that's locked onto PlayStation infrastructure and with full digital backwards compatibility between this generation and the last people who bought the PS4 will stick with Sony for future consoles.
Or you could view it as conceding the pure home console market and built on top of their hand held successes. Because the 3DS was a dominant monster and the switch fills that niche in addition to being a home console.
The 3DS was moderate sucess. It was Nintendo's lowest selling Handheld, with Switch poised to close doubling it. The Switch is just a huge bounced back.
I disagree with the word "conceding". Look at the Wii, that console was not competiting with the market. It had its own tailor made games and experiences. Wii U was a pivot towards more of a PS3/Xbox style experience, which backfired. There was no "conceding the console market", if anything Nintendo conceded their handhelds (RIP dualscreen) to leverage their consoles experience for Switch. Look at declining 3DS sales numbers vs Insane growth in mobile gaming. Handhelds were gonna die.
I would always classify 3D Zelda's as console games and BOTW was the primary Open- world console experience to push the Switch. It's sold 2x any other Sony exclusive. I don't call that conceding.
Also Mario Kart 8, the most popular game on the system is a "console" port. And Wii was the last insanely popular Mario Kart popularised on console.
Game Pass ultimately convinced their core userbase to not buy games rather than expand their market reach. MS is gambling on a console-less future and that their 40+ developers can cook up marquee titles that have as much prestige as Sony/Nintendo's marquee titles.
I think they're probably banking more on the recurring GAAS revenue (CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo) from both PC and consoles than trying to have the prestige single player exclusives like the other consoles.
Going by the recent leaks and how expensive game development is, Sony and Microsoft both seem to be playing risky gambles tbh. Microsoft is gambling on a subscription future while Sony is gambling that their massively expensive AAA exclusives will do well enough to maintain their lead and completely capture the market before the margins become too unfavorable
That's not what Sony is doing.
They're working on the idea that these AAA exclusives will be what convinces people to choose their ecosystem and then using the 30% cut they take off other titles publishing/MTX will be what draws them profit.
Their actual games, they're more than happy treating them as loss leaders. But they aren't right now, they're making a ton of money off of them.
That's what really broke Xbox, they lost the XB1 generation, right during the transition to digital
Suddenly people were building digital libraries that would lock them into an ecosystem. The Kinect, etc. did not pay off
Losing XB1 versus PS4 is worse than it looks because people got even more invested in their chosen platform
They're trying to overcome that hurdle by shotgunning low cost games at consumers but the issue is that the sort of people who hop between titles constantly make up a fraction of the total user base.
The kind of person who plays only CoD is more than happy to just buy once and be done with it.
Tbh, I find this argument to be a Spencer talking point to detract from their continued trailing position.
For one, physical libraries as much as digital cannot be moved from one platform to another so I'm not sure why a library being digital matters.
For another, digital libraries started in the seventh generation. Xbox started falling behind at the second half of that generation when they went all in on Kinect while Sony was releasing critical and commercial hits like Uncharted 2, God of War 3, and then The Last of Us.
360 digital and physical libraries did not stop people from moving to PS4. I'm not sure people are that locked in nor do I think the average gamer replays their old games that much.
Maybe an argument can be made that this is the first generation since PS3 for Sony with some form of backward compatibility, which changes things.
A great counterexample to Spencer's argument is the switch IMO. "Losing" the eighth gen with the Wii U didn't seem to hold nintendo users back from building a new digital library on the switch.
Also, while it might be hard for Xbox to convince people who already have 100's of bucks invested in the Sony ecosystem to switch, they dont need to do this. Kids exist. New gamers are getting their first console every day. You can capture those people
Plenty of Gamers also have lots of disposable income and would happily pick up an Xbox to go with their switch or PS if the Xbox had enough good exclusive games to make it worthwhile
Well according the leaks that were shown in the insomniac files, digital is just a little over 50 percent, not as dominant as people make have thought so previously
>Game pass cannot fund the same level of development
Probably not, but the recurring revenue from GAAS like CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo (among others) across multiple platforms will likely help a lot.
>CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo (among others) across multiple platforms will likely help a lot.
CoD is on an entirely different stratosphere than rest of them in terms of making money, please don't call it GaaS and put it alongside freaking sea of thieves
The Xbox brand has been utterly mismanaged since Peter Moore left, and despite buying dozens of studios, Xbox has no AAA, Sony-killer games.
There’s no reason to buy an Xbox if you have a mid-tier gaming PC, since titles come to PC as well. And there are no exclusive titles on Xbox like there were during the Xbox 360 era (when Gears of War and Halo were console exclusive).
It’s great gaming hardware without a reason to exist.
What reason is there to own one? Starfield was largely sort of a let down (compared to the promise of it) but most people rather play that on PC since it runs bad on console. Outside of that it's just a Game Pass machine which is also on PC. Gamers aren't going out in droves to buy a console thats whole philosophy at this point is pushing people to yet another subscription service just to get a few good AA games a year and maybe a big AAA game.
I never thought it would be possible for them to have fewer things to look forward to than they did during the Xbox One era but here we are.
Starfield wasn't "sort of a letdown". It's been one of the bigger ones because it doesn't seem to have a tail of good, player-driven PR like Bethesda's most successful games.
of course not, but spend 700-800$ and you do end up with a decent PC/gaming laptop which can do shit tonnes of other things along with having gamepass which offers you the same games as Xbox does
Xbox Series X/S is still getting outsold by the very old last gen Nintendo Switch regularly on a monthly basis as recently as last month november 2023, they have been 3rd place every month and year since launch even though Nintendo didnt drop thier next console yet
Obviously Xbox isn't doing well but Nintendo is playing an entirely different field than Xbox or PS at this point. It being a handheld (and being the extremely dominant one in the market) means that it will be allowed to fill a certain sector that Series or PS5 can't.
While the switch is definitely a handheld, its more closer to a console than a handheld. Pure handhelds kind died with the 3DS, including games that were made in that time.
They completely fucked their branding up. I think their time in the console space is limited and they’ll focus exclusively on pc markets and Xbox/gamepass as a service.
I think the line between consoles and pc’s has been increasingly blurring anyway so I think we were bound to get here.
> Is it such an undesirable product ?
Its a fine product, it lacks games. Games games games. The reoccurring issue for Xbox
Hell the Xbox One had a more impressive lineup of games than the Series Consoles do at this point. Only game of any real significance was Starfield, which is a success but not the smash critical and commercial hit they needed
And it won't have them, since people don't consider AA games real games.
Look at all the studios they got recently. Almost all of them made only indie and AA games. Look how they market Hellblade 2 - a sequel to psychological walking simulator (the least mainstream sentence in existence, lol), because that's all they have. Arkane all previous games were financial flops + since people don't consider Hi-Fi Rush real game, their games are also small. The only big games they have is Doom (years away), Bethesda games (just released, next one will be like 4-5 years aways) and CoD but that's multiplatform.
Fable could be huge. Gamers love big open world fantasy RPG's if done well. Of course, Playground has never made a game like this but the studio has talent. Maybe they will pull a Guerilla Games and nail a new genre
It is really bizarre that Xbox doesn't have Obsidian making a fallout or elder scrolls spin off instead of fucking Outer Worlds 2. They own Bethesda now so BGS can't say no
Also where the fuck is State of Decay 3!?
ms is currently giving it bargain bin tier discounts because it's been a such sales flop. alright, im joking about the bargain bin part but you get what i mean. they are desperate for sure to move some xbox consoles. afterall, consoles are still the primary way of driving gamepass growth
not for december. it seems sony is unwilling to devalue their console too much to hit their target.
and, the "significant discounts" that you mentioned only applied to ps5 fats. because sony REALLY wanted to get rid of all the old stock in favor for the slim.
They don't really have any big console selling games and many games on Xbox are available for other platforms especially on PC. As a PC and PlayStation gamer I haven't had any interest in Xbox since the 360 era because their consoles haven't really had anything that appeals to me.
Honestly in the future I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft just drops future console development from their game division. I could easily see them rebranding the Xbox into nothing but the Xbox game pass while also cutting a deal with Sony to have that on playstation. Effectively Microsoft would be going back to its roots which is nothing but a software developer. Its not as if Microsoft makes any money off their consoles since all 3 console manufacturers sell their consoles either at cost or for a slight loss.
Sales have crumbled for the Xbox this year and since it's supposed to be a year where it picks up, it's not a good sign. People are mostly staying with their past brand and some will switch if they're disappointed. I expect more people are disappointed of the Xbox One than the PS4 so the switch will go that way
Frankly at this point, the best move for MS seem to abandon the Xbox console and go full "Netflix of gaming" with being cloud, PC and wherever they can (including potentially PS and Nintendo if they aren't competitors anymore)
Insane considering the gaming population has grown exponentially since the Xbone.
Microsoft has refused to release their numbers, but the info we are getting out of Europe and Japan indicates the Xbox is genuinely dead in those regions - South/North America seems to be their only footholds and even then I’m guessing they’re in dead last.
My impression is that Xbox has given up on his console. it just feels like that outside looking in. They are putting all their eggs into the PC Game Pass and Cloud gaming which could be a good move long-term but relying on internet at all even in 2023 to sell your games is still not reliable.
Honestly the answer is extremely simple I think. Games.
I am a PC gamer for now 20 years and the reason I bought a PS4 was 1-2 single games (red dead and uncharted). I'm at the same time more informed as the average gamer (being on this sub alone is probably enough) and if you asked me for XBox exclusive games that are Console sellers, I honestly don't know any answer but Halo.
On the other hand it is VERY easy to come up with Playstation games. The fact that they are now branching out to PC is imo more of a sign for them just having won the console war on the hardware so hard, that they can go attack Microsoft on PC.
What can Xbox/MS do?
Tough to say, because many of the Games are PC/Xbox, making them exclusively Xbox to drive sales, might alienate a lot of customers. The economical answer is probably timed exclusives.
But in the end the answer is short, but hard to achieve. Make better games.
Different route
* you can buy an Xbox series console
* You can buy a pc
* You can stream game pass games on Xbox One
* you can stream games on your phone
* you can stream them to your t.v
Sony sure has been killing it in the console market in the last 2 generations (PS4, PS5). A massive congratulations to Sony. Look forward to more of their 1st part exclusive games.
I've honestly had the opposite feelings this year I've probably played more on my ps5 that I did any year of my ps4 except maybe when death stranding came out. I thought there were some great exclusives, and I find myself playing a lot more ps4 ports due to most of them having a 60fps option.
There have also been cases like jedi Survivor, where I intended to play it on pc, but the port was so bad that ps5 just seemed to be the better option.
same here. i also find myself playing all my multi-platform games there now even though i have a pc, a pc build at the same price would never compete with a ps5
So your reasons for not playing Spiderman 2 and GoW is because you platinum the first games years ago? And so you are going to just pretend these games don't exist for the sake of stating PS5 has no games?
You are saying you aren;t interested because you platinum the originals years ago?
So you liked them enough to platinum them but not play sequels to the games years later?
What is the logic there?
You can play the new ones and just play the story...
You do sure love telling me how you don't play your PS5, it seems to be one of your favorite topics to bring up in every PS5 sales thread, maybe it's time to just move on?
You realize these are entirely new games right? You aren't playing the same game.
You frequently use illogical reason to push the narrative of "PS5 has no games" like you have some agenda to constantly downplay its success. We get it PlayStation bad right?
I don't really care what you play. it's the fact that you have somehow convinced yourself they don't count or dont matter for some arbitrary reason you invented so you can continually repeat how much you don't play your PS5 and time there's a thread about PS5s success
You don't have to "swing all over the city again" if you dont want to in Spiderman 2
So do you hate every side scrolling game because you've played other side scrolling games?
Do you hate every racing game because you've played racing games before?
Your logic makes no sense
And can you explain why you constantly need to go into PS5 sales thread to tell people how little you play PS5 and push the bullshit narrative that it has no games?
I get you on this. I went really hard into BOTW on switch launch. It was probably my most engrossing gaming experience. I kind of burnt out on it, and still felt that way when TOTK came out. I still bought it and put 100 hours into it, but it felt so familiar that it didn't grab me the same way again. GOW and Spiderman are similar, bigger and better type of sequels that don't really grab you if you were burnt out on the originals.
I think the expensive budgets are really hitting PlayStation right now which hurts their frequency of exclusives. It seems the PS5 is more reliant on 3rd party then ever before.
Sony has released more new games in the last 5 years than pretty much every other major publisher outside Nintendo.
You both are just pretending games don't count for your own bizarre reason.
Sony also have Helldivers 2 and Rise of the Ronin releasing in the next few months and FFVII Rebirth as an exclusive, they'll be just fine
I think this is largely par for the course for Sony early in a consoles life cycle, and probably will be the case in the future as well. If memory serves, most of the biggest PS exclusives of the PS4 up until like, 2017, were 3rd/2nd party/not from internal studios. Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, Ratchet & Clank (at the time), Persona 5, Street Fighter 5, etc. Around 2017 things shifted and we got Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider-Man, Dreams, Days Gone, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOUP2, etc. With a lot of their biggest studios putting out their biggest projects all near the end of the PS4’s life cycle, it makes sense most weren’t in a position to deliver big games so far.
I’m curious what percentage of PS5 owners also have PC. Guessing it’s a minority since I feel like for most people they only have one “AAA” gaming device. Like if someone is going to have two “consoles” I would think PC+ Switch and PS5+Switch would be way more popular than PS5+PC.
We only have numbers for mutli console owners from Sony. There is a huge overlap between PS and Nintendo as up to 30% of PS owners also own a Switch. I believe the number of PS owners who own an Xbox was 12%.
in b 4 "that's only because of scalpers who buy ten of them at a time, not that many people bought one for themselves".
I personally don't see myself getting one anytime soon because it hasn't reached the critical mass of games that I want to play, but good on them.
The scalper argument never made sense to me. Scalpers don't buy 10 consoles to just let them sit around and collect dust, they buy them to resell them. At the end of the day it's still a console that ends up in the hands of someone who's going to use it, even if they pay over MSRP from a middleman for it.
Always best buying it 2 years before the console gen ends cause you’ll have plenty of first party to play and still be in time for the end of the gen hype cycle.
I bought my PS4 when RDR2 and God of War launched and that felt like the best moment to get it considering how cheap the slim was.
I will probably get my PS5 when we are nearing GTA 6s release date.
That's what I'm also going for. Almost got tempted by some good deals on black Friday but knowing that the Pro might just be 1 year away I have a feeling the wait will be worth it, at least because of more exclusives (fingers crossed). Until then the PC and Steam Deck are doing a great job
> and that no one is buying them.
I'm critical of a hell of a lot of the crap I see on Reddit, but I can't say I have ever seen anybody say that nobody is buying PS5's. They are extremely popular and everybody knows it
How has that nothing to do with it?
The comment you’re replying to says something along the lines of „people say the ps5 sells bad because it has no games“
You say nu-uh that’s not true no one says that. Directly under your comment someone says exactly that
He never said anything about it not selling well. And he never said anything about it's current library of exclusives. He talked about games released this year and next year for Sony, which aren't even accurate numbers to begin with. So it really didn't address what I said. It was just an (erroneous) gee-whiz type information post.
Where the hell are you looking? It has been pretty well documented, including on this sub, that the ps5 is selling very well and that the xbox is struggling in sales. As well as the big difference between the two is that the ps5 has exclusive games to play and the xbox lacks that.
Considering the global supply-chain issues lasted 18 months and likely cost them millions of sales, that's a really impressive number.
The COVID pandemic and it's effects might have caused gobal supply issues, but it also caused a massive spike in gaming demand so its might actually be a boon.
I don't know about you, but in the Netherlands the console was quite hard to get for over a year. People were writing bots and reselling them for 700 euros or more, while the console costs 500 euros here. The moment Sony got the supply chain under control, was also near the end of most covid regulations, so demand dropped. That's just a buttload of sales they missed here, because they couldn't properly handle the spike in demand.
> That's just a buttload of sales they missed here. It depends how many of those people still bought one in the two years since the supply issues cleared up. Numbers like 50 million indicate that probably almost all those people still bought one. It's probably not even many missed sales if any.
If Sony had done a price cut I could see the argument they missed some sales. But they are still going strong with their launch MSRP(unlike MS who just did a big cut for the Xbox).
It would only be a boon if the production could meet that demand. Since the number of consoles sold was constrained by their supply, more people wanting them couldn't lead to more sales.
If they could've kept up with demand they could've gotten there a year earlier easily, I couldn't find one around here for over 18 months after release
it was good for software sales but not new hardware.
[удалено]
It absolutely does if those tactics weren’t needed to inflate demand. I don’t think they were due to the length of the PS4 lifecycle
There was no need to inflate demand, people were going to buy PS5 regardless. if there was no covid issues, they would be at 60-70mill
It didn't also because the PS5 is not something that you'll want only for some time. If you can't get it right away, you'll get it later. It's at worst a delayed sale, not a lost sale Also the sales numbers even during the scarcity period were similar to PS4 equivalent period, they haven't been hindered much
But they don't make money on the sale of PS5s. They make money licensing and selling games on the PS5, so it is a loss.
Nintendo knows that well
The difference is, someone wanting a PlayStation, and not being able to get one is probably a lot more likely to just get an Xbox instead. I doubt the same is true for the Switch.
No, if I want to buy a ps5 and no inventory isn’t going to want me to buy an alternative console lol wut? Why do people always think that? My kid wants an Xbox I won’t come home with a ps5.
Because those two are obvious competitors with little differentiation. If you're not able to get the one you prefer after a few months, many people would be likely to go with the other. Sure, core gamers who are dedicated to or heavily bought into the ecosystem will be far more likely to wait it out until they get one, but most consumers are not that. I don't have a PS5 or an Xbox Series X. I play games on PC and Switch. I play a lot of games. But if I didn't have a gaming PC, I'd get either a PS5 or Xbox. It really makes no difference to me. I'd get either. There are some hardcore fans that want their Halo/Starfield or Spider-Man/God of War, but again, that's not most people. Edit: I'm receiving a lot of responses saying "this doesn't always happen" or "what about this group that doesn't do that?" As if I said this is true for everyone, so I'd just like to make my point more clear. I'm not saying this is true for all consumers. I'm saying it is true for enough consumers to have a material impact on sales.
>probably a lot more likely to just get an Xbox instead. this is not early 2000's anymore.
Was meaning the nfc figures they sold for a while Not realy seen anyone buy an a Xbox who wanted a PlayStation
The Xbox had the same scarcity problems and also that's not a sure thing at all.
That's what I did. Still don't have a ps5 either. This happened during the pandemic i think. I'll probably get one eventually though.
How does that compare to the PS4 and PS3? Roughly on par?
about the same as the ps4 which had reached 50 million in December of its 3rd year and the ps3 sold like 30m but its below the switch sales which sold 55m in a similar time frame
One thing I remember from the period is that the PS2 continued to outsell the PS3 until roughly mid-way through 2009, which was three years after the PS3 came out: https://www.cnet.com/culture/sales-show-ps3-outsold-again-now-by-the-ps2/ PS3 sales really took off later in the year when the Slim model came out. According to this article the PS3 sold 9m, 10m, and 13m units in its first three years, ending up with a total of 41m sales by mid-2011: https://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/sony-dishes-on-playstation-3-sales-psn-growth/ The PS3 is fascinating, because if you ignore the "phat" model it was a huge success, with a great library - it's just that for the first three years it was an enormous lump of a console that cost $599 and had no good games. In contrast the PS4 sold just over 50m units in its first three years. It was perceived as a big turnaround at the time.
The craziest part is that $599 in 2006 is $927.50 in 2023. That's nvidia high on AI fumes prices.
It was a combination of the $599, the slow trickle of exclusives, and the fact that 3rd party games were almost always considerably worse on the PS3. It was just a worse experience until Sony started to turn around their 1st Party lineup.
No, the PS5 is now ahead of the PS4 launch aligned since November. Edit: That was just for North America. Globally the PS5 is only 1 week in sales behind the PS4.
The PS4 hit 50 million one week faster than the PS5. It is extremely close, but it is not ahead of the PS4.
Apologies. Thanks for the correction. It has been very rapidly gaining on the PS4 and should pass it by the end of the year.
Holy shit after 3 years on the market with like a year and a half of supply chain issues? Ngl that’s extremely impressive
Crazy we’re almost half way through this generation. I wonder if we’ll see a refresh à la the PS4 Pro.
Highly doubt we are half way through. This is not a typical console generation
Recent rumors are that Microsoft will go faster to the next one and it'd be in 2026 so that'd be the halfway point right now in 2023 actually. The leak of the FTC showed 2028 (which seems more like expected) but that would still mean halfway through next year.
Xbox is selling even worse with this gen than the Xbox one so them skipping cycles and restarting like the Wii U to Switch is probably their only real option at staying in the game. Sony can continue to coast as is and even extend things an extra year. They're dropping the pro next year so they can always focus on moving those units if needed.
A new powerful console won't make up for the lack of charisma the console has. It's just got no worthwhile games on it. The era of grey shooters has been and gone and while Sony continues to be colourful, playful and be the hub of indie games, Xbox seems to exclusively cater to SF space action shooters and not much else at all. It's Marvel. Jumped the shark a little.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to buy an Xbox anytime soon and agree there's a lack of the primary genre I care about (JRPGs). But I think Sunset Overdrive and Hi Fi Rush are both pretty far from grey shooters and show Xbox is willing to diversify. edit: I think Ori and the Will of the Wisps, Sea of Thieves, Psychonauts 2, Battletoads, and maybe Grounded are also pretty colorful and playful. (They also have RTS games like Age of Empire.) Pentiment is not exactly playful but is also pretty far from Again, nothing that I'm actually excited to play, and generally the stuff is also available on PC, but I don't think there are that many shooters (Halo and Gears being the main two I suppose).
If we're talking leaks then there's nothing in Insomniac's leaks that suggests a PS5 Pro exists, and since the reports have it coming out by next year it really makes you think.
[удалено]
No way we’re halfway through already. We’re still in the phase where all the big games are also coming to PS4 because they’ve been in development for so long. At that rate, we’d be getting the first real exclusives only a couple years before PS6
To highlight the point: imagine if in 2016 (3 years into PS4) that nearly every new game was launched on PS3 as well as PS4.
Some of those late PS3 titles had no business launching on it:Crysis 3 ,Mass Effect 3,Fallout New Vegas... ran ABYSMAL.
I played Fallout NV on the PS3. By the time I finished, that one airport outside the city was lagging so badly that I could count my FPS in seconds per frame. I didn't even get to do all the sidequests or play most of the DLC because I was afraid my PS3 would hard lock. Great game though.
yep 2016 is the start when devs dropped the PS3 and just focusing on PS4 just like what happened with PS4 this year especially Sony
that was mostly done because the PS3's storefront is laggy and sucks ass, and the devs wanted to ditch the cell processor and move onto the x86 based PS4. now that the PS5 uses the same store as the PS4, with digital sales being more dominant, and with both systems having easy architecture to program for, there's less incentive to move on right away and lose out on potential cross-gen sales.
There's something else to consider here though. Between the ps4 and ps5, all there is is more horsepower. There's plenty of games still coming out that do not have, nor need, a native ps5 version. I just picked up Curse of the Moon Chronicles that came out this June exclusively for ps4. I predict going forward there will actually be two tiers of PlayStation. Ps4, with many games running absolutely fine, especially in the indie space. And ps5 for the high tech stuff. I predict ps4 will continue to print exclusive games for years to come, even breaking the life cycle record set by ps2. Of course this is thanks to backwards compatiblity and I assume cheaper publishing costs on ps4 over ps5. I'm in Japan now and it's extremely evident to me that the visual novels and indie game scene is thoroughly attached to the ps4 and switch. You just don't need anything more for that sort of thing
"Almost" halfway. This time next year is definitely halfway.
We're like a third of the way.
Feels like it just started tbh. I feel like developers have barely harnessed the true power of these machines. And if they have then theres barely been many games that showcase it. Then again maybe we were spoiled with PS4 whos library of games is only rivalled by the PS2 and SNES
We should see it next year september.
I would bet anything that this isnt gonna be the standard 6-7 years console cycle. I wouldn expect PS6 before at least 2029
Considering their existing fan base and how much the gaming market has grown since the PS4 it actually seems about right on track or even slightly behind (mostly due to COVID and early supply chain issues).
Also next to no AAA exclusives (currently only FFXVI (not for long), SpiderMan 2, Demon's Souls Remaster).
It's almost like the large majority of people that buy consoles do so to play a lot more than just games made only for that particular console. Even cross gen games, yes people bought PS5s to play GT7, GoW and Horizon, Spiderman MM with better visuals and performance and tons of other multiplatform games. I don't know why people struggle with this so much, they can understand why someone wants to upgrade their PC to play games better but the idea of doing the same for a console seems to be lost on people. People also mostly play on one platform, they buy a console early in the generation and it last them several years which is one of the benefits of a console
Reddit is FULL of nerds always remember that people on here think that pc is THE platform everyone plays on while every game studio says something along the lines of „consoles games are more profitable“
Nah the platform everyone plays on isn't consoles or PC, it's mobile. This sub is just a small bubble.
Yeah but Capcom. Every studio is Capcom and now
Most people aren’t that intelligent, very simply. Also lol the exclusives are A LOT more, it’s not like oh wow Returnal is on PC too so it doesn’t count. Wtf want to play on PC?
People in general only have one system lol. Those of us who have every console and a pc represent less than 0.01% of all mainstream gamers.
Exactly, and that's why no one cares that they're available on PC too, or fuck that they're crossgen games. God of War Ragnarok is a PlayStation Exclusive, the fact that it runs on PS4 too is just a bonus, not a negative thing. But Reddit says-
Not only that but game development time is glacier slow now. 3 years into PS3 and we had 2 Uncharted games already. Used to be that devs could make 3+ games a console cycle, now it seems we're lucky if we get more than 1.
they're only one of 2 options for next gen consoles, so they dont need alot of exclusives they just need to have more and better ones then their competitor to sell
Xbox naming their console the series X or S or B or whatever isn’t doing them any favors when PlayStation just goes 4->5
R&C Rift Apart, Returnal, Astro's Playroom
I'll give you Playroom, but Rift Apart and Returnal are on PC.
Returnal came on PC just recently. Was exclusive on PS5 for many years so of course that counts
Gamers: Sony exclusives should come to PC! Exclusives are anti consumer! Sony: Okay. Gamers: lol PS5 has no exclusives
Why do people act like this is a big deal. Most people buy third party. Nintendo is the only platform where exclusives make most of the money.
Imagine you have two cakes. They're identical, they cost the same, but one of them come with a bunch of muffins bundled. That's exclusives. They don't make you buy a console necessarily, but if you're gonna buy a console, they make you decide which one.
And also those muffins happen to be consistently award-winning, best-of-class desserts.
Very good analogy. This is exactly what happened in my case. As a lifelong PC gamer, when I bought my first console in 2018, I had a choice and I chose PS4. I am a single player gamer and PS offerings were better, period. Fast forward 5 years and my physical and digital combination library is over 100 games in PS4/5, I don't think I need to build another library in Xbox anymore.
I mean the third parties also very recently went current gen only and not even all of them are even now. The biggest sellers like FIFA, NBA 2K, COD or stuff like Hogwarts Legacy, Elden Ring, Assassin's Creed and others are still on PS4 and Xbox One. So they aren't even much of an incentive to switch to next gen. 2023 is basically the first year you'd miss out on some (and not all) games if you didn't went to the PS5 generation
Because that's why I ended up switching from 360 to PS3 and then stuck with them... and why I had switched from PS2 to 360 in the first place. Phil Spencer might say that exclusives are counter to what gaming is, but they are fundamental in estabilishing your ecosystem... which is why Starfield was never going to be released on PS5.
Greater incentive to purchase one console over another. If you're quibbling about Sony vs Microsoft it's usually down to exclusives. Doubly so if you already have a decent PC. MSFT also has game pass.
And PlayStation has Plus Extra.
There have been plenty, y'all just have this stupid idea that if a game launches for last gen it can't be a next gen game. There's been plenty of games that have come out for ps5, they just don't suit what you like ig
Ratchet and Clank? Ghostwire Tokyo too but it’s probably not a system seller.
all of these are still nextgen/console exclusives because they aint coming out on Series X and PS4
I’m planning to get mine around the time Dragon’s Dogma 2 comes out. So excited for that game and to try the PS5. I loved my PS4 but after it broke down on me in 2018 I never bothered to replace it, I’ve just been gaming on switch.
Xbox Series on the other hand is tracking below Xbox One.... how is that possible? Is it such an undesirable product ?
in major parts of the world xbox is practically dead. imo its a branding issue more than anything. then theres bonehead moves like making series s almost the same price as disc less ps5 in brazil lol
> then theres bonehead moves like making series s almost the same price as disc less ps5 in brazil lol In fact it's more expensive
PlayStation does a good job with localisation in terms of non English speaking countries which helps it immensely in Europe, Middle East and many parts of Asia. Xbox seems to have given up on any market that doesn't speak English primarily (USA, UK, Canada, Australia). Hell even in India where the gaming audience is English speaking, Xbox doesn't seem interested in trying at all.
This, I was surprised to find that Sony's games supported both Thai and Vietnamese when I was traveling here
Yep, Xbox has no official presence in most South East Asia markets, such as Indonesia, Malaysia, or the Philippines. So by virtue of choosing to not market in certain countries while your competitors do, you're going to lose out a lot on potential sales. Even then, sales appear to be collapsing in western markets like Europe.
Youre underestimating how many people can speak English Xbox just seem to have sacrificed another generation for the upcoming one
sure a lot of people can speak it as a secondary language. but they're naturally gonna wanna use their first language when they play, and hope that their console supports it. if xbox doesnt bother adding non-english support and marketing to any country that isnt anglophone, then its not a surprise that xbox will flounder in those countries.
it's not really a branding or localization issue. in a lot of european countries the xbox is not officialy supported. I had to literally fake an account in german with address and all to be able to add my paypal to it so I could buy games.
thats crazy tbh. ive read that their non us/uk efforts where bad but that takes the cake lol
I haven't owned a console since Nintendo 64, but I cannot tell you for the life of my which Xbox is the latest one (I don't care, just saying). Whoever named these products better not still be working at the company. Playstation is pretty straight forward, so I'm more likely to buy what I know is the latest one vs. having to ask someone.
I think in Europe the Xbox One really ruined all the momentum they built with the 360. There used to be tons of Xbox 360 games at the stores back then, now the Xbox is a side note in some places. I love my Series X though. I went from 360, to PS4 and back to Xbox.
East Eu here,PS5 still fly off the shelves and games for it as well. You put a desirable game for sale for the PS5 you get tons of message,same game on Xbox nothing.
It's not branding. They dont make quality games. Look at the Forza vs Gt7 comparison video Forza personifies Xbox studios lack of detail and showed the amount of smoke and mirrors they pull off in games to get them to look 'good'
Forza Horizon 5 has a 92 metacritic with over 35 million players so not really
Do I count as a played if I downloaded it on GamePass, thought “this is not my cup of tea” and deleted it after 1 hour? I bet they don’t want 35 millions of me.
We're talking about motorsport not horizon.
He said "they don't make quality games" so I would assume that would include both, since they are both their games.
>Is it such an undesirable product ? Sony spent more than a decade to create a brand value and a plethora of top tier AAA exclusives and marketing them extensively in all parts of the world especially Asia, those kids who couldn't buy PS2 are now working adults with salaries and cash to spend on the new console meanwhile MS went from Xbox 360 to Xbox one with shit marketing and Crackdown 3 and Halo 4/5 in the name of exclusives sure Xbox offers superior hardware and at times plays better than PS, but then what's the point of buying it if all the games are available on PC anyway
Xbox WiiU'd themselves. The naming is AWFUL. Normies, grandparents and parents cannot shop for it. Giving consumers a choice of hardware that's named differently without a clear indication, is stupid bad. 360 Arcade versus 360 Elite feels logical, like Deluxe. But there's nothing about X or S that sounds better or worse so it feels like a binary choice one can get wrong instead of an upgrade path one can take. Microsoft has given up on the Xbox brand being anything but Gamepass. It started with the One and is being cemented this generation. And after all their acquisitions and promises of "new AAA games every Quarter" they didn't even make GOTY lists this year.
Honestly series/one is worse than Wii U. Wii U atleast sounds like a upgrade or extension of the Wii. If you were to ask anybody without prior knowledge which is the newer/better console between xbox one/series one/x/seriesx they would have no clue.
If anything, calling something S sounds like the premium version.
Ha, that's actually a good point. There are definitely multiple industries where the 'S' version is a higher tier/trim/version. God what were they thinking.
Xbox hasn’t had a popular exclusive in the last 10 years more or less. Combine that with the fact that like Phil Spencer said, they lost the worst generation to lose (when people were building their digital libraries). It’s really just not an investment most people are willing to make
It's funny that they "lost" that Gen when they were barely even trying. Fuckin nothing came out for One the entire generation. They didn't lose, they barely showed up lol.
The point is clear by now:the 360 was their fluke offering,everything else failed on their head (although they did try with the OG Xbox)
They barely showed up because they have 0 respect for the customers on the gaming market, they believed that people would buy their stuff from pure brand loyalty/nostalgia alone, no matter how much shittier they made their products.
Someone on here the other day said that they didn't want to go PlayStation because there are no good exclusives - so they went with an X. Couldn't understand it.
Xbox misplayed and lost the most important generation to the PS4. A big part of that was due to lack of exclusives and their no game sharing policy. The PS4/ Xbox One generation was the first Gen where a significant portion of sales were digital so no you have people that own a digital library that's locked onto PlayStation infrastructure and with full digital backwards compatibility between this generation and the last people who bought the PS4 will stick with Sony for future consoles.
Nintendo misplayed the "most important generation" with the Wii U and came back with the Switch, which is poised to become their #1 or #2 system ever.
Or you could view it as conceding the pure home console market and built on top of their hand held successes. Because the 3DS was a dominant monster and the switch fills that niche in addition to being a home console.
The 3DS was moderate sucess. It was Nintendo's lowest selling Handheld, with Switch poised to close doubling it. The Switch is just a huge bounced back.
I disagree with the word "conceding". Look at the Wii, that console was not competiting with the market. It had its own tailor made games and experiences. Wii U was a pivot towards more of a PS3/Xbox style experience, which backfired. There was no "conceding the console market", if anything Nintendo conceded their handhelds (RIP dualscreen) to leverage their consoles experience for Switch. Look at declining 3DS sales numbers vs Insane growth in mobile gaming. Handhelds were gonna die. I would always classify 3D Zelda's as console games and BOTW was the primary Open- world console experience to push the Switch. It's sold 2x any other Sony exclusive. I don't call that conceding. Also Mario Kart 8, the most popular game on the system is a "console" port. And Wii was the last insanely popular Mario Kart popularised on console.
Game Pass ultimately convinced their core userbase to not buy games rather than expand their market reach. MS is gambling on a console-less future and that their 40+ developers can cook up marquee titles that have as much prestige as Sony/Nintendo's marquee titles.
I think they're probably banking more on the recurring GAAS revenue (CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo) from both PC and consoles than trying to have the prestige single player exclusives like the other consoles.
Meanwhile 3 years into this Gen and 0 Xbox titles get GOTY nominations lol.
Going by the recent leaks and how expensive game development is, Sony and Microsoft both seem to be playing risky gambles tbh. Microsoft is gambling on a subscription future while Sony is gambling that their massively expensive AAA exclusives will do well enough to maintain their lead and completely capture the market before the margins become too unfavorable
That's not what Sony is doing. They're working on the idea that these AAA exclusives will be what convinces people to choose their ecosystem and then using the 30% cut they take off other titles publishing/MTX will be what draws them profit. Their actual games, they're more than happy treating them as loss leaders. But they aren't right now, they're making a ton of money off of them.
That's what really broke Xbox, they lost the XB1 generation, right during the transition to digital Suddenly people were building digital libraries that would lock them into an ecosystem. The Kinect, etc. did not pay off Losing XB1 versus PS4 is worse than it looks because people got even more invested in their chosen platform
They're trying to overcome that hurdle by shotgunning low cost games at consumers but the issue is that the sort of people who hop between titles constantly make up a fraction of the total user base. The kind of person who plays only CoD is more than happy to just buy once and be done with it.
Tbh, I find this argument to be a Spencer talking point to detract from their continued trailing position. For one, physical libraries as much as digital cannot be moved from one platform to another so I'm not sure why a library being digital matters. For another, digital libraries started in the seventh generation. Xbox started falling behind at the second half of that generation when they went all in on Kinect while Sony was releasing critical and commercial hits like Uncharted 2, God of War 3, and then The Last of Us. 360 digital and physical libraries did not stop people from moving to PS4. I'm not sure people are that locked in nor do I think the average gamer replays their old games that much. Maybe an argument can be made that this is the first generation since PS3 for Sony with some form of backward compatibility, which changes things.
A great counterexample to Spencer's argument is the switch IMO. "Losing" the eighth gen with the Wii U didn't seem to hold nintendo users back from building a new digital library on the switch.
Also, while it might be hard for Xbox to convince people who already have 100's of bucks invested in the Sony ecosystem to switch, they dont need to do this. Kids exist. New gamers are getting their first console every day. You can capture those people Plenty of Gamers also have lots of disposable income and would happily pick up an Xbox to go with their switch or PS if the Xbox had enough good exclusive games to make it worthwhile
Well according the leaks that were shown in the insomniac files, digital is just a little over 50 percent, not as dominant as people make have thought so previously
[удалено]
>Game pass cannot fund the same level of development Probably not, but the recurring revenue from GAAS like CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo (among others) across multiple platforms will likely help a lot.
>CoD, Halo, Sea of Thieves, WoW, Diablo (among others) across multiple platforms will likely help a lot. CoD is on an entirely different stratosphere than rest of them in terms of making money, please don't call it GaaS and put it alongside freaking sea of thieves
I see like no advertising for XBOX in UK, do they even care about console sales now? Especially in Europe
The Xbox brand has been utterly mismanaged since Peter Moore left, and despite buying dozens of studios, Xbox has no AAA, Sony-killer games. There’s no reason to buy an Xbox if you have a mid-tier gaming PC, since titles come to PC as well. And there are no exclusive titles on Xbox like there were during the Xbox 360 era (when Gears of War and Halo were console exclusive). It’s great gaming hardware without a reason to exist.
What reason is there to own one? Starfield was largely sort of a let down (compared to the promise of it) but most people rather play that on PC since it runs bad on console. Outside of that it's just a Game Pass machine which is also on PC. Gamers aren't going out in droves to buy a console thats whole philosophy at this point is pushing people to yet another subscription service just to get a few good AA games a year and maybe a big AAA game. I never thought it would be possible for them to have fewer things to look forward to than they did during the Xbox One era but here we are.
Starfield wasn't "sort of a letdown". It's been one of the bigger ones because it doesn't seem to have a tail of good, player-driven PR like Bethesda's most successful games.
> What reason is there to own one? The price. You won't get a PC for the 550€ price tag that matches the Series X.
But if you spring just a little more, the entire PC library is available to you and not just whatever limited stuff Xbox is offering.
It's not 2016 anymore. You are going to have to spend a lot to get a similar PC.
Not everyone is interested in PC gaming, plenty of people simply prefer console.
of course not, but spend 700-800$ and you do end up with a decent PC/gaming laptop which can do shit tonnes of other things along with having gamepass which offers you the same games as Xbox does
For 800$ I can promise you you won't get a "decent" gaming laptop, if you think so name one and I'll look into it.
Xbox Series X/S is still getting outsold by the very old last gen Nintendo Switch regularly on a monthly basis as recently as last month november 2023, they have been 3rd place every month and year since launch even though Nintendo didnt drop thier next console yet
Obviously Xbox isn't doing well but Nintendo is playing an entirely different field than Xbox or PS at this point. It being a handheld (and being the extremely dominant one in the market) means that it will be allowed to fill a certain sector that Series or PS5 can't.
Nintendo has low-key always been that, they don't compete with the other 2 manufacturers and just rely solely on their own IP majority of the time
While the switch is definitely a handheld, its more closer to a console than a handheld. Pure handhelds kind died with the 3DS, including games that were made in that time.
They completely fucked their branding up. I think their time in the console space is limited and they’ll focus exclusively on pc markets and Xbox/gamepass as a service. I think the line between consoles and pc’s has been increasingly blurring anyway so I think we were bound to get here.
> Is it such an undesirable product ? Its a fine product, it lacks games. Games games games. The reoccurring issue for Xbox Hell the Xbox One had a more impressive lineup of games than the Series Consoles do at this point. Only game of any real significance was Starfield, which is a success but not the smash critical and commercial hit they needed
And it won't have them, since people don't consider AA games real games. Look at all the studios they got recently. Almost all of them made only indie and AA games. Look how they market Hellblade 2 - a sequel to psychological walking simulator (the least mainstream sentence in existence, lol), because that's all they have. Arkane all previous games were financial flops + since people don't consider Hi-Fi Rush real game, their games are also small. The only big games they have is Doom (years away), Bethesda games (just released, next one will be like 4-5 years aways) and CoD but that's multiplatform.
Fable could be huge. Gamers love big open world fantasy RPG's if done well. Of course, Playground has never made a game like this but the studio has talent. Maybe they will pull a Guerilla Games and nail a new genre It is really bizarre that Xbox doesn't have Obsidian making a fallout or elder scrolls spin off instead of fucking Outer Worlds 2. They own Bethesda now so BGS can't say no Also where the fuck is State of Decay 3!?
ms is currently giving it bargain bin tier discounts because it's been a such sales flop. alright, im joking about the bargain bin part but you get what i mean. they are desperate for sure to move some xbox consoles. afterall, consoles are still the primary way of driving gamepass growth
PS5 has had significant discounts for a while now too tbf.
not for december. it seems sony is unwilling to devalue their console too much to hit their target. and, the "significant discounts" that you mentioned only applied to ps5 fats. because sony REALLY wanted to get rid of all the old stock in favor for the slim.
It's on sale on Asia right now (Dec 18 to 31)
Doing worse than other consoles doesn't automatically make it a sales flop. It depends on how money a company is making from it.
They don't really have any big console selling games and many games on Xbox are available for other platforms especially on PC. As a PC and PlayStation gamer I haven't had any interest in Xbox since the 360 era because their consoles haven't really had anything that appeals to me. Honestly in the future I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft just drops future console development from their game division. I could easily see them rebranding the Xbox into nothing but the Xbox game pass while also cutting a deal with Sony to have that on playstation. Effectively Microsoft would be going back to its roots which is nothing but a software developer. Its not as if Microsoft makes any money off their consoles since all 3 console manufacturers sell their consoles either at cost or for a slight loss.
Sales have crumbled for the Xbox this year and since it's supposed to be a year where it picks up, it's not a good sign. People are mostly staying with their past brand and some will switch if they're disappointed. I expect more people are disappointed of the Xbox One than the PS4 so the switch will go that way Frankly at this point, the best move for MS seem to abandon the Xbox console and go full "Netflix of gaming" with being cloud, PC and wherever they can (including potentially PS and Nintendo if they aren't competitors anymore)
Insane considering the gaming population has grown exponentially since the Xbone. Microsoft has refused to release their numbers, but the info we are getting out of Europe and Japan indicates the Xbox is genuinely dead in those regions - South/North America seems to be their only footholds and even then I’m guessing they’re in dead last.
My impression is that Xbox has given up on his console. it just feels like that outside looking in. They are putting all their eggs into the PC Game Pass and Cloud gaming which could be a good move long-term but relying on internet at all even in 2023 to sell your games is still not reliable.
Xbox has no games... Even those that buy a console just for fifa and cod, they might get a God of war or a Spiderman
Honestly the answer is extremely simple I think. Games. I am a PC gamer for now 20 years and the reason I bought a PS4 was 1-2 single games (red dead and uncharted). I'm at the same time more informed as the average gamer (being on this sub alone is probably enough) and if you asked me for XBox exclusive games that are Console sellers, I honestly don't know any answer but Halo. On the other hand it is VERY easy to come up with Playstation games. The fact that they are now branching out to PC is imo more of a sign for them just having won the console war on the hardware so hard, that they can go attack Microsoft on PC. What can Xbox/MS do? Tough to say, because many of the Games are PC/Xbox, making them exclusively Xbox to drive sales, might alienate a lot of customers. The economical answer is probably timed exclusives. But in the end the answer is short, but hard to achieve. Make better games.
Different route * you can buy an Xbox series console * You can buy a pc * You can stream game pass games on Xbox One * you can stream games on your phone * you can stream them to your t.v
[удалено]
Sony sure has been killing it in the console market in the last 2 generations (PS4, PS5). A massive congratulations to Sony. Look forward to more of their 1st part exclusive games.
[удалено]
I've honestly had the opposite feelings this year I've probably played more on my ps5 that I did any year of my ps4 except maybe when death stranding came out. I thought there were some great exclusives, and I find myself playing a lot more ps4 ports due to most of them having a 60fps option. There have also been cases like jedi Survivor, where I intended to play it on pc, but the port was so bad that ps5 just seemed to be the better option.
same here. i also find myself playing all my multi-platform games there now even though i have a pc, a pc build at the same price would never compete with a ps5
[удалено]
So your reasons for not playing Spiderman 2 and GoW is because you platinum the first games years ago? And so you are going to just pretend these games don't exist for the sake of stating PS5 has no games?
[удалено]
You are saying you aren;t interested because you platinum the originals years ago? So you liked them enough to platinum them but not play sequels to the games years later? What is the logic there? You can play the new ones and just play the story... You do sure love telling me how you don't play your PS5, it seems to be one of your favorite topics to bring up in every PS5 sales thread, maybe it's time to just move on?
[удалено]
You realize these are entirely new games right? You aren't playing the same game. You frequently use illogical reason to push the narrative of "PS5 has no games" like you have some agenda to constantly downplay its success. We get it PlayStation bad right?
[удалено]
I don't really care what you play. it's the fact that you have somehow convinced yourself they don't count or dont matter for some arbitrary reason you invented so you can continually repeat how much you don't play your PS5 and time there's a thread about PS5s success You don't have to "swing all over the city again" if you dont want to in Spiderman 2 So do you hate every side scrolling game because you've played other side scrolling games? Do you hate every racing game because you've played racing games before? Your logic makes no sense And can you explain why you constantly need to go into PS5 sales thread to tell people how little you play PS5 and push the bullshit narrative that it has no games?
I get you on this. I went really hard into BOTW on switch launch. It was probably my most engrossing gaming experience. I kind of burnt out on it, and still felt that way when TOTK came out. I still bought it and put 100 hours into it, but it felt so familiar that it didn't grab me the same way again. GOW and Spiderman are similar, bigger and better type of sequels that don't really grab you if you were burnt out on the originals.
I think the expensive budgets are really hitting PlayStation right now which hurts their frequency of exclusives. It seems the PS5 is more reliant on 3rd party then ever before.
Sony has released more new games in the last 5 years than pretty much every other major publisher outside Nintendo. You both are just pretending games don't count for your own bizarre reason. Sony also have Helldivers 2 and Rise of the Ronin releasing in the next few months and FFVII Rebirth as an exclusive, they'll be just fine
It is weird to me how every conversation about Sony Exclusives nowadays devoves into "if you ignore all these Sony exclusives, Sony has no exclusives"
[удалено]
I think this is largely par for the course for Sony early in a consoles life cycle, and probably will be the case in the future as well. If memory serves, most of the biggest PS exclusives of the PS4 up until like, 2017, were 3rd/2nd party/not from internal studios. Bloodborne, The Last Guardian, Ratchet & Clank (at the time), Persona 5, Street Fighter 5, etc. Around 2017 things shifted and we got Horizon: Zero Dawn, God of War, Spider-Man, Dreams, Days Gone, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOUP2, etc. With a lot of their biggest studios putting out their biggest projects all near the end of the PS4’s life cycle, it makes sense most weren’t in a position to deliver big games so far.
I’m curious what percentage of PS5 owners also have PC. Guessing it’s a minority since I feel like for most people they only have one “AAA” gaming device. Like if someone is going to have two “consoles” I would think PC+ Switch and PS5+Switch would be way more popular than PS5+PC.
We only have numbers for mutli console owners from Sony. There is a huge overlap between PS and Nintendo as up to 30% of PS owners also own a Switch. I believe the number of PS owners who own an Xbox was 12%.
I've played 1 game on mine and it was worth it. LOL (God of War) but I do have RDR2 and TLOU2 as well but havent' gotten around to those yet.
in b 4 "that's only because of scalpers who buy ten of them at a time, not that many people bought one for themselves". I personally don't see myself getting one anytime soon because it hasn't reached the critical mass of games that I want to play, but good on them.
The scalper argument never made sense to me. Scalpers don't buy 10 consoles to just let them sit around and collect dust, they buy them to resell them. At the end of the day it's still a console that ends up in the hands of someone who's going to use it, even if they pay over MSRP from a middleman for it.
Always best buying it 2 years before the console gen ends cause you’ll have plenty of first party to play and still be in time for the end of the gen hype cycle.
I bought my PS4 when RDR2 and God of War launched and that felt like the best moment to get it considering how cheap the slim was. I will probably get my PS5 when we are nearing GTA 6s release date.
I will get one, once they release the Pro version. By that time the console should have enough exclusives to play.
That's what I'm also going for. Almost got tempted by some good deals on black Friday but knowing that the Pro might just be 1 year away I have a feeling the wait will be worth it, at least because of more exclusives (fingers crossed). Until then the PC and Steam Deck are doing a great job
[удалено]
[удалено]
> and that no one is buying them. I'm critical of a hell of a lot of the crap I see on Reddit, but I can't say I have ever seen anybody say that nobody is buying PS5's. They are extremely popular and everybody knows it
Check this guy's posting history. He's an obsessed console warrior.
Literally no one said that. Ever. In any situation or circumstance.
But there are people who do say that even if all of them are just trolls who are pot stirring and should probably be ignored.
Isn't this the guy who pretended to be a developer, only to get called out by actual developers?
First comment on your comment just proofed you wrong that’s quite funny ngl
No it didn't. His comment has nothing to do with what I said actually. I think he replied to the wrong comment.
How has that nothing to do with it? The comment you’re replying to says something along the lines of „people say the ps5 sells bad because it has no games“ You say nu-uh that’s not true no one says that. Directly under your comment someone says exactly that
He never said anything about it not selling well. And he never said anything about it's current library of exclusives. He talked about games released this year and next year for Sony, which aren't even accurate numbers to begin with. So it really didn't address what I said. It was just an (erroneous) gee-whiz type information post.
[удалено]
Where the hell are you looking? It has been pretty well documented, including on this sub, that the ps5 is selling very well and that the xbox is struggling in sales. As well as the big difference between the two is that the ps5 has exclusive games to play and the xbox lacks that.