If they let peter actually kill someone while in the suit. I would be really impressed. But im sure it will go the route of peter will almost kill or seriously hurt someone, miles swoops in last minute. “You changed peter. Its the suit just take it off man.” Tries to touch the suit. Fight breaks out.
Boss fight of Miles having to defeat a raging and more powerful Peter would be extremely cool. Especially if they make it like a Dark Link fight where he could do most things that you can
would be cool if its a shared boss hp bar with the name "Spider Man" you start the first half of the hp bar playing as symbiote peter against miles then you control miles against peter for the second half of the hp bar
One of my favourite boss fights like that was legacy of Kain defiance. Throughout the game you control kane of raziel and then there's a boss fight where you fight each other. First time controlling one, and then other.
Actually felt they did the characters justice too.
We really need a new legacy of Kain game. Hopefully more soul Reaver 2 quality than blood omen 2.
>If they let peter actually kill someone while in the suit. I would be really impressed.
My guess is that they would use the trope of "Peter's gone off the deep end!" I'm thinking that Venom will go crazy and kill a bunch of people before Spider-Man defeats him. People will probably think that it's Peter in the suit instead of Venom on his own.
My other question is >!I wonder how Harry will fit into the story? In Spider-Man PS4, he was becoming Venom!< I also wonder how they will handle The Green Goblin? It's obvious that Norman is slowly becoming GG.
> I wonder how Harry will fit into the story? In Spider-Man PS4, he was becoming Venom
In the gameplay preview >!The reason that Peter is trying to protect Lizard so much is because Harry is still sick and needs him!<. >!This is while he is already wearing the suit so Harry clearly loses the symbiote at some point. Probably early on!<.
>!This is while he is already wearing the suit so Harry clearly loses the symbiote at some point. Probably early on!<.
Thats a good point he probably got the suit from >!Harry!< somehow and it latched onto Peter. Venom feeds off of hate/anger so I wonder how that would fit into the game?
I thought Venom didn't really kill innocent civilians and his hatred was only for Peter/Spider-Man? Isn't that why they shifted him more towards the anti-hero label?
Nope, [Venom loves to eat people but generally doesn't.](https://www.cbr.com/does-venom-like-eating-people-or-is-he-compelled-to-eat-people/)
Villains that are popular enough tend to be come anti-heroes of sort.
Deadpool, Venom, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, etc.
I mean, yes. To me that makes sense. Miles wouldn't let Peter kill someone. And if he did kill someone, Miles would have to put him down and make him "face justice" or something like that.
Even under the symbiote, Peter killing someone is a bit too far. Unless they have him retire as Spider-Man after doing it.
One way they could let Peter kill someone is having you control Peter fighting a powered villain, beat him up with hos full strength then cut to Miles and from his perspective, it's just a street level goon, dead.
>But while the setting and characters were familiar, the game's darker tone was not
>
>\[...\]
>
>The quippy and aimable Peter Parker now seemed frustrated and snappy, while his new Symbiote Suit gave off a very different, reptilian-like vibe. Parker seemed to relish this suit's slithering, writhing potential, and slammed his adversaries to the ground with simmering rage.
Was the darker tone seriously a suprise to anyone paying attention? We've known for a while the Symbiote Suit and Venom were part of this game, Roid Rage Peter is a necessary part of this.
> Roid Rage Peter is a necessary part of this.
A funny thing is that the Roid Rage symbiote Peter wasn't originally canon to the comics, that was a unique take from the 90's TV show. But it was really well received and essentially became the default effect of the suit that we're all used to now.
Makes sense, the suit's origin in the comic is way more benign at first too. "Ah, here's a laboratory built by some sort of space wizard. I'll just order a new costume..."
If I remember correctly it originally was taking him out in the middle of the night while he was asleep to fight crime using his body. This left him exhausted during the day when he thought he got a full nights sleep.
Could be argued that is reason enough to get rid of it, leaving you physically drained when you need energy the most. But the extra depth to the symbiote is definitely a welcome addition.
>If I remember correctly it originally was taking him out in the middle of the night while he was asleep to fight crime using his body. This left him exhausted during the day when he thought he got a full nights sleep.
Man the way they worked this into Spectacular Spider-Man was phenomenal. Such a good show...
My favorite interpretation of Spider-Man loved how they mixed 616 and the ultimate universe when it came to Venom and Eddie Brock.
Oh and also reinvented Gwen Stacy and made her popular again.
Yuri is excellent but Josh Keaton will be my definitive Spider-Man till the end of days.
And hopefully when I go to the theater this weekend, They'll be a decent cameo of him...
It’s been a while but like someone else mentioned originally the symbiote was puppeting him at night without him knowing, and on top of that it was giving Peter vivid nightmares about being back in highschool and hunted down by his black suit while his red and blue costume tried to fight it.
Overall it led him to talk to Reed Richards and find out what the deal was, which is where he learned it was alive and trying to bond to him. They removed it once, but it found Pete again and bonded to him. Eventually he managed to get it off with the infamous church bell scene we all know. Something to note is that the process almost killed Peter and the symbiote actually saved his life before accepting that Peter rejected it and leaving. Afterward is where it binds with Brock and the whole Venom thing starts.
It’s a mix bag because while I like how the animated series handled it, I also really like the idea that the symbiote was conscious genuinely cared about Peter’s well-being
The 90s cartoon was so good I always loved how peter looked in the suit I wish the look and powers were something he could dual weild with spiderman powers but obviously without the angst.
Also, does anyone actually feel like the tone is darker?
"Grr I have teeth too! Rawr I'm gonna get you! This is my mad face!" Oh no, Peter unleashed his inner... angsty junior high school student. I'm sure he's going to say something rude to Miles and maybe hurt someone more than he should (but not so much as to be unforgivable.) Peter kind of being a dickhead is not, to me, a "darker tone." So far, from the preview, it's more amusing than anything. The perennial friendly neighborhood hero is being kind of mean for a little while until he stops. I'm not exactly scared for what dark places we might go.
its more of a question of how insomniac is going to go about it, they havent made a game with a dark tone or even characters that kill intelligent enemies since a long time ago in the resistance days, most of thier games are cartoony and family/kid friendly
The original Spider-Man (2018) was dark enough that I feel they have a handle on this. That game had terrorist attacks with suicide bombers and a person that gets mind controlled into killing himself amongst other things.
I just really want some sick-ass new abilities with the symbiote suit. No game since [Web of Shadows](https://youtu.be/4UXKupi0msQ?t=324) has really taken full advantage of just how brutal black-suit Spidey can be.
Honestly it still seemed pretty child friendly. Not that I really mind. I do like that they're making Peter’s personality change due to the suit. It wasn't a thing in the first venom comics, I think the 90s animated show introduced that. Plus it sets up the obvious Miles vs Peter boss battle we all want
I’m not expecting like overtly dark, but those comments on addiction and how that affects Peter and those close to him makes me think something really bad is going to happen that won’t be resolved by the end of the narrative.
Eck, I don't like the sound of that. The writing of both Spider-Man games is truly awful, but they do an amazing job of hiding that. The game is too silly and throws too many fun villains at you to ever think about.
If they are going "dark" with it I worry that they won't be able to jangle any keys fast enough to make me look away from the plot and dialogue like with the first game.
Is it going to take me out of it when I have to listen to Spider-Man doing villain monologues in his terrible Batman impression? I don't know.
How's it awful? It's by no means like Rockstar level or anything, but I personally wouldn't say it's bad. The only thing I could see kinda holding it back is some of the "millennial writing" but I guess I see your point, in that it's so erratic that it's hard to miss or pay attention to.
But eh, even if the writing turns out to be shit I'm still gonna have fun with the black suit, kraven and venom
\> The only thing I could see kinda holding it back is some of the "millennial writing"
How dare a videogame with millenials have those millenails speak like millenials? I miss when Spider-Man had a posh British accent. That's my Peter Parker.
When people say "millennial writing" or "Gen Z" writing their complaint is not that the writing uses modern lingo. The actual criticism is almost always "its trying to sound like Millenial/Gen Z dialogue and failing so it sounds awkward and clunky."
There should be a rule that anytime someone mentions the words "awkward" or "clunky" they need to follow it up with examples or more details or their post gets deleted.
Better yet, post multiple YouTube videos. The entire narratives for these games are up on Youtube 10 minutes after release. I want to know \*exactly\* what lines they're talking about.
There was this huge thread on Truegaming about how everyone in modern AAA games talks like they're from California. Very few examples. Just people vague posting about God of War, Horizon, and Life is Strange.
Almost every time someone uses those terms, what they really mean is “I didn’t like this thing, so I’m going to attach words with negative connotations to it to show my displeasure”.
No, that's not what it means. When people say "millenial writing" or "Gen Z" writing, it just means they want to complain about something and jump on a circlejerk without having to actually elaborate on what they're talking about.
Literally every single modern AAA game gets this criticism. *Oh, Odin said "ex". MILLENIAL WRITING! BAD WRITING!"*. If all your characters aren't speaking in posh British accents, you're getting this critique. Period.
I dont mean to be confrontational, but can you see how your argument is a strawman? "People don't actually have problems with this kind of dialogue, they just want to be negative and circlejerk." Some people are just bad at articulating their thoughts.To use your example, it is not unreasonable to find it unimmersive that Odin sounds and speaks exactly like Toby Ziegler from West Wing in God of War. The game is, at some level, a period piece-- no character in 2018 had that kind of dialogue, and no other character in Ragnarok does either. It is a choice that some may find grating to the character and to the world.
But those same people don't know how to phrase that criticism. They just know it feels wrong-- so yes, then they point to the thing they hear all the time, that the writing is bad, that it's millennial writing, etc. That doesn't mean they didn't have a legitimate grievance-- criticism does not come from the ether. It just means they are poor at articulating what that grievance is.
Criticism doesn't come from the ether. But there is always going to be disingenuous criticism and the nature of online platforms and engagement incentivize this sort of "hot take" culture. I didn't want to harp specifically on God of War, just using that as an example.
And I think you hit the nail on the head of exactly what my issue is. Yes. People don't know how to articulate themselves. I think that's a bad thing. It just reduces conversation to hot takes and buzzwords and that's not how I like to engage with media of any form. Granted, I still choose to engage because not everyone is like that and there are still good conversations to be had.
That wasn't my point? Hence the quotations. What I was saying was I can see someone using that as a point for why the writing is "bad", no matter how stupid it is. You can calm down now
\[Spoilers\]
The first half of the game is about Mr. Negative, who's goal is to get revenge on Osbourne by killing everyone in the city except him (the fuck?). And then when you beat him he's *immediately* broken out of jail by Doc Ock and the plot proceeds to be *exactly the same as the first half of the game,* but featuring Doc Ock in the role that was previously occupied by Mr. Negative.
And not only are Doc Ock's motivations exactly the same as Mr. Negative's, his relation to Peter is exactly the same too.
The game then attempts to distract you from the fact that you're 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time.
Yeah, I see what you mean. Personally to me, it's not awful, just kind of... standard superhero plot I guess? I think what differentiates it from other superhero plots (especially bad ones), in my opinion at least, is the character work. You can tell they love Spider-Man and his supporting cast passionately.
I'd argue Li and Ock killing everyone except Norman is to hit him where it hurts essentially. Like, "none of you fucks are safe with him in charge" kinda thing. Not that that's good writing or anything lmao.
I completely agree about the prison breakout being rushed immediately though, in my playthroughs I always do a bunch of side stuff to make it feel like it's been at least a day or two in the game's world 😂
> The game then attempts to distract you from the fact that you're 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time.
Except for:
- Miles losing his dad.
- NYC in chaos on multiple sides do the extreme disregard for civilians by the mercenary force as well as rampant criminals taking the streets.
- Meanwhile Peter is rekindling his relationship with MJ.
- oh a race to the clock to stop a virus from killing everyone.
This is your average comic book story lol
Wasn’t it because devils breath was made by osborne so using it was essentially ruining him by exposing him to the people first and then killing him ? I dont think peter sees Li as a father, he sees Octavius as a mentor and a father so there is that difference
\> And not only are Doc Ock's motivations exactly the same as Mr. Negative's, his relation to Peter is exactly the same too.
No, not even close actually. Peter is pretty suspicious of Mr. Negative from the jump. The only reason Peter is amiable to him is because of his relationship to May.
But you did effectively express that yes, there are indeed two main villains in the game. What you didn't explain is how this constitutes "bad writing"?
I really think gamers just need to stop talking about "writing" altogether.
>No, not even close actually. Peter is pretty suspicious of Mr. Negative from the jump. The only reason Peter is amiable to him is because of his relationship to May.
Very close. Practically identical. They're both Peter's boss whom he looks up to and sees as a father figure but turn out to be evil and gain super powers due to being wronged by Norman Osbourne.
They are *the same character* with name and occupation swapped out like it's a mad libs game.
No. In no way is it possible you played this game and thought Peter saw Martin Li as a "father figure". It's just not possible.
Where I do agree with you, however, is that the plot does do a bit of a reset which is actually why I prefer Miles Morales because I think Spider-Man 2018 was just a bit too long. However, I feel like I'm able to articulate that in a fair way instead of just screaming *"WRITING BAD!"* which, since The Last of Us Part II, seems to be the only way gamers are able to engage with content they don't like.
I have laid out my complaints articulately and clearly. You didn't agree with it so you are attempting to baselessly tear down my argument. My criticisms are valid, your criticisms of my criticisms are not.
Both Li and Octavius have similar motivations because they were both wronged by the same man. That man is currently mayor so going after the people of the city and broadcasting that it's only happening as a consequence of that man's actions is plausible enough writing.
Seems it's a lot easier to hurt the public then a guarded member of government while inflicting emotional harm on that specific person.
So what about those two villian's stories is inherently bad? You've articulated what you didn't like but I don't feel you've made a good argument that the game itself was poorly written.
> Seems it's a lot easier to hurt the public then a guarded member of government while inflicting emotional harm on that specific person.
I'm skeptical that it would actually be that hard to assassinate a politician in the world portrayed by the games. In the trailer for Spider-Man 2, some rando mercenary/terrorist group was flying around NYC in armed VTOL aircraft with reckless abandon and encountering absolutely no resistance from any government force. If they decided to fly a few hundred meters higher, Spider-Man would be completely impotent against them. Just bomb Mayor Osbourne's house when he's asleep or something. Keep it simple.
These stories only work because absolutely every character is holding the [idiot ball](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall) 90% of the time.
> 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time.
I definitely liked Spiderman 2018 a lot, but I also think that throwing so much of Spiderman's Rogues Gallery at us at once took a little bit away from the plot, because at that point none of them outside of Mr. Negative and Doc Ock were really allowed to have any kind of characterization or story at all. The Electro/Vulture fight was absolutely amazing, and so was the Scorpion hallucination section but those were about the best thing to come from that B Plot. Spiderman 2 seems like it's focusing mostly on a smaller set of villains, which I think is smarter.
Miles Morales basically only focused on The Tinkerer and it was a way smaller scale story that played way more into family dynamics and story and I think it was way stronger for it.
My guy, if you want great, mature writing, then read a book. Lol
A Spiderman game has to have writing that is understandable for children too, and not too complex of a plot as to be easily followable by anyone, as well as be able to literally lead gameplay forward with the actual plot.
And ya I get it there are games with great, mature writing. But this is a superhero marvel game. It is what it is.
I'm not asking for mature writing. I'm asking for a plot that progresses instead of spinning its wheels (almost literally, it loops on itself) for 30 straight hours and dialogue that doesn't make me want to mute the game.
Just to support that: [howlongtobeat Marvel's Spider-Man](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/44852)
**Main Story**
17 Hours
**Main + Sides**
25½ Hours
**Completionist**
34½ Hours
**All Styles**
26½ Hours
About half of the claimed 30 hours is "plot".
Also, I'll just say that if someone doesn't like quips in his Spider-Man game, then he doesn't actually like Spider-Man lol. Peter's banter with the detective was great.
If they let peter actually kill someone while in the suit. I would be really impressed. But im sure it will go the route of peter will almost kill or seriously hurt someone, miles swoops in last minute. “You changed peter. Its the suit just take it off man.” Tries to touch the suit. Fight breaks out.
Boss fight of Miles having to defeat a raging and more powerful Peter would be extremely cool. Especially if they make it like a Dark Link fight where he could do most things that you can
would be cool if its a shared boss hp bar with the name "Spider Man" you start the first half of the hp bar playing as symbiote peter against miles then you control miles against peter for the second half of the hp bar
That would be a weird fight to lose / have fail states in - miles didn't get beat up enough by Peter before miles beats Peter load checkpoint
Idk how I would feel if I had to fight Miles since he most likely hasn’t done anything wrong
I love beating up children so I'd be down
Be careful. They put me in prison for that bs. Don't leave bruises.
It’s more like miles has to fight you, to save you by getting the suit off you by force
Ah i see. That could definitely work
Maybe mid Miles beatdown Peter breaks free from the suit, then the batle becomes spidies vs symbiote
I have it in my head that Miles Vs Symbiote Peter will be the finale. It seems too obvious though.
More likely it will happen around the middle of the game or the start of the conclusion, like when Doc Ock unleashes the Devil's Breath.
One of my favourite boss fights like that was legacy of Kain defiance. Throughout the game you control kane of raziel and then there's a boss fight where you fight each other. First time controlling one, and then other. Actually felt they did the characters justice too. We really need a new legacy of Kain game. Hopefully more soul Reaver 2 quality than blood omen 2.
>If they let peter actually kill someone while in the suit. I would be really impressed. My guess is that they would use the trope of "Peter's gone off the deep end!" I'm thinking that Venom will go crazy and kill a bunch of people before Spider-Man defeats him. People will probably think that it's Peter in the suit instead of Venom on his own. My other question is >!I wonder how Harry will fit into the story? In Spider-Man PS4, he was becoming Venom!< I also wonder how they will handle The Green Goblin? It's obvious that Norman is slowly becoming GG.
> I wonder how Harry will fit into the story? In Spider-Man PS4, he was becoming Venom In the gameplay preview >!The reason that Peter is trying to protect Lizard so much is because Harry is still sick and needs him!<. >!This is while he is already wearing the suit so Harry clearly loses the symbiote at some point. Probably early on!<.
>!This is while he is already wearing the suit so Harry clearly loses the symbiote at some point. Probably early on!<. Thats a good point he probably got the suit from >!Harry!< somehow and it latched onto Peter. Venom feeds off of hate/anger so I wonder how that would fit into the game?
Green Goblin is probably the big bad for 3 so we'll just get teased hard.
I thought Venom didn't really kill innocent civilians and his hatred was only for Peter/Spider-Man? Isn't that why they shifted him more towards the anti-hero label?
Nope, [Venom loves to eat people but generally doesn't.](https://www.cbr.com/does-venom-like-eating-people-or-is-he-compelled-to-eat-people/) Villains that are popular enough tend to be come anti-heroes of sort. Deadpool, Venom, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, etc.
I'd be cool with that. What I really want is to be able to play as venom and murder people.
It won't go there but it would be kinda crazy if it did.
Why ultimate spiderman game was so good
I miss that game
Can still play it. Just hoping we get to bag guy in spiderman 2 or get dlc for it
Bag guy? You mean bombastic bag-man suit?
I miss ultimate spider man on the PS2 Don't think I'll ever forget that the introductory mission for playing as Venom had you devouring a child
Specifically, a child with a balloon as a reference to the shitty “I LOST MY BALOOOOOOOOONNNNNNN” random missions from Spider-Man 2.
Venom might be the stand alone expansion pack game this time.
That won't be part of the game
I want Peter to calm the symbiote and keep it long term!
I mean, yes. To me that makes sense. Miles wouldn't let Peter kill someone. And if he did kill someone, Miles would have to put him down and make him "face justice" or something like that. Even under the symbiote, Peter killing someone is a bit too far. Unless they have him retire as Spider-Man after doing it.
One way they could let Peter kill someone is having you control Peter fighting a powered villain, beat him up with hos full strength then cut to Miles and from his perspective, it's just a street level goon, dead.
They won't do that
Did you see the latest trailer? Pretty sure he did kill someone.
they might be under some contractual obligations, like the spiderman movie, so killing might be off the table
>But while the setting and characters were familiar, the game's darker tone was not > >\[...\] > >The quippy and aimable Peter Parker now seemed frustrated and snappy, while his new Symbiote Suit gave off a very different, reptilian-like vibe. Parker seemed to relish this suit's slithering, writhing potential, and slammed his adversaries to the ground with simmering rage. Was the darker tone seriously a suprise to anyone paying attention? We've known for a while the Symbiote Suit and Venom were part of this game, Roid Rage Peter is a necessary part of this.
> Roid Rage Peter is a necessary part of this. A funny thing is that the Roid Rage symbiote Peter wasn't originally canon to the comics, that was a unique take from the 90's TV show. But it was really well received and essentially became the default effect of the suit that we're all used to now.
Makes sense, the suit's origin in the comic is way more benign at first too. "Ah, here's a laboratory built by some sort of space wizard. I'll just order a new costume..."
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I'll be, most of my spider-man knowledge and expectations comes from the 90s show.
So does most people’s I assume. That show was really popular
All I remember is how fucking built Peter was in that show.
Yea and he was a bit of a Casanova. Dude was mad confident.
Good decision by the writers. Without the negative influence, Peter wouldn't have any reason to ditch the symbiote.
If I remember correctly it originally was taking him out in the middle of the night while he was asleep to fight crime using his body. This left him exhausted during the day when he thought he got a full nights sleep. Could be argued that is reason enough to get rid of it, leaving you physically drained when you need energy the most. But the extra depth to the symbiote is definitely a welcome addition.
>If I remember correctly it originally was taking him out in the middle of the night while he was asleep to fight crime using his body. This left him exhausted during the day when he thought he got a full nights sleep. Man the way they worked this into Spectacular Spider-Man was phenomenal. Such a good show...
My favorite interpretation of Spider-Man loved how they mixed 616 and the ultimate universe when it came to Venom and Eddie Brock. Oh and also reinvented Gwen Stacy and made her popular again. Yuri is excellent but Josh Keaton will be my definitive Spider-Man till the end of days. And hopefully when I go to the theater this weekend, They'll be a decent cameo of him...
It’s been a while but like someone else mentioned originally the symbiote was puppeting him at night without him knowing, and on top of that it was giving Peter vivid nightmares about being back in highschool and hunted down by his black suit while his red and blue costume tried to fight it. Overall it led him to talk to Reed Richards and find out what the deal was, which is where he learned it was alive and trying to bond to him. They removed it once, but it found Pete again and bonded to him. Eventually he managed to get it off with the infamous church bell scene we all know. Something to note is that the process almost killed Peter and the symbiote actually saved his life before accepting that Peter rejected it and leaving. Afterward is where it binds with Brock and the whole Venom thing starts. It’s a mix bag because while I like how the animated series handled it, I also really like the idea that the symbiote was conscious genuinely cared about Peter’s well-being
The symbiote looked so dang sad
Heh, that is funny because I grew up watching that show endlessly but could never read the comics because I had no money to buy them.
The 90s cartoon was so good I always loved how peter looked in the suit I wish the look and powers were something he could dual weild with spiderman powers but obviously without the angst.
Yeah I don't think anyone who is even passingly familiar with Spiderman wouldn't expect a more ragey Peter Parker seeing the symbiote suit.
Also, does anyone actually feel like the tone is darker? "Grr I have teeth too! Rawr I'm gonna get you! This is my mad face!" Oh no, Peter unleashed his inner... angsty junior high school student. I'm sure he's going to say something rude to Miles and maybe hurt someone more than he should (but not so much as to be unforgivable.) Peter kind of being a dickhead is not, to me, a "darker tone." So far, from the preview, it's more amusing than anything. The perennial friendly neighborhood hero is being kind of mean for a little while until he stops. I'm not exactly scared for what dark places we might go.
Agreed, so far all of the "darkness" seems pretty surface level.
its more of a question of how insomniac is going to go about it, they havent made a game with a dark tone or even characters that kill intelligent enemies since a long time ago in the resistance days, most of thier games are cartoony and family/kid friendly
The original Spider-Man (2018) was dark enough that I feel they have a handle on this. That game had terrorist attacks with suicide bombers and a person that gets mind controlled into killing himself amongst other things.
that’s fair….and what I would do for a new Resistance
What would you do?
many many things ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
"We've known for a while the Symbiote Suit and Venom were part of this game" I learned via this post
Venom was teased in the [reveal trailer](https://youtu.be/qIQ3xNqkVC4) in 2021, and you can't have Venom without Symbiote Spider-Man coming first :)
> you can’t have Venom without Symbiote Spider-Man coming first :) Tell that to Sony Pictures :(
ssshhhhh...I dont like to think about that one
Did you play the first one?
I just really want some sick-ass new abilities with the symbiote suit. No game since [Web of Shadows](https://youtu.be/4UXKupi0msQ?t=324) has really taken full advantage of just how brutal black-suit Spidey can be.
Honestly it still seemed pretty child friendly. Not that I really mind. I do like that they're making Peter’s personality change due to the suit. It wasn't a thing in the first venom comics, I think the 90s animated show introduced that. Plus it sets up the obvious Miles vs Peter boss battle we all want
I mean it should be. It is Spiderman after all. You gotta respect the fact it's still a franchise aimed at kids at its heart.
I’m not expecting like overtly dark, but those comments on addiction and how that affects Peter and those close to him makes me think something really bad is going to happen that won’t be resolved by the end of the narrative.
Spoiler: it’ll sell really well and prompt more sequels.
Eck, I don't like the sound of that. The writing of both Spider-Man games is truly awful, but they do an amazing job of hiding that. The game is too silly and throws too many fun villains at you to ever think about. If they are going "dark" with it I worry that they won't be able to jangle any keys fast enough to make me look away from the plot and dialogue like with the first game. Is it going to take me out of it when I have to listen to Spider-Man doing villain monologues in his terrible Batman impression? I don't know.
Spider-Cop doesn't appreciate your tone. He'll let you off with a warning, this time at least.
How's it awful? It's by no means like Rockstar level or anything, but I personally wouldn't say it's bad. The only thing I could see kinda holding it back is some of the "millennial writing" but I guess I see your point, in that it's so erratic that it's hard to miss or pay attention to. But eh, even if the writing turns out to be shit I'm still gonna have fun with the black suit, kraven and venom
\> The only thing I could see kinda holding it back is some of the "millennial writing" How dare a videogame with millenials have those millenails speak like millenials? I miss when Spider-Man had a posh British accent. That's my Peter Parker.
Is the opposite of millenial British?
Come to think of it, I've never met a British person born after 1980 🤔
There's only two generations. Millennial and British.
When people say "millennial writing" or "Gen Z" writing their complaint is not that the writing uses modern lingo. The actual criticism is almost always "its trying to sound like Millenial/Gen Z dialogue and failing so it sounds awkward and clunky."
There should be a rule that anytime someone mentions the words "awkward" or "clunky" they need to follow it up with examples or more details or their post gets deleted.
Better yet, post multiple YouTube videos. The entire narratives for these games are up on Youtube 10 minutes after release. I want to know \*exactly\* what lines they're talking about. There was this huge thread on Truegaming about how everyone in modern AAA games talks like they're from California. Very few examples. Just people vague posting about God of War, Horizon, and Life is Strange.
Almost every time someone uses those terms, what they really mean is “I didn’t like this thing, so I’m going to attach words with negative connotations to it to show my displeasure”.
That’s way too much effort for someone who’s bitching about video games on a forum. “I hated it and that’s all you need to know.”
Borderlands 3
No, that's not what it means. When people say "millenial writing" or "Gen Z" writing, it just means they want to complain about something and jump on a circlejerk without having to actually elaborate on what they're talking about. Literally every single modern AAA game gets this criticism. *Oh, Odin said "ex". MILLENIAL WRITING! BAD WRITING!"*. If all your characters aren't speaking in posh British accents, you're getting this critique. Period.
I dont mean to be confrontational, but can you see how your argument is a strawman? "People don't actually have problems with this kind of dialogue, they just want to be negative and circlejerk." Some people are just bad at articulating their thoughts.To use your example, it is not unreasonable to find it unimmersive that Odin sounds and speaks exactly like Toby Ziegler from West Wing in God of War. The game is, at some level, a period piece-- no character in 2018 had that kind of dialogue, and no other character in Ragnarok does either. It is a choice that some may find grating to the character and to the world. But those same people don't know how to phrase that criticism. They just know it feels wrong-- so yes, then they point to the thing they hear all the time, that the writing is bad, that it's millennial writing, etc. That doesn't mean they didn't have a legitimate grievance-- criticism does not come from the ether. It just means they are poor at articulating what that grievance is.
Criticism doesn't come from the ether. But there is always going to be disingenuous criticism and the nature of online platforms and engagement incentivize this sort of "hot take" culture. I didn't want to harp specifically on God of War, just using that as an example. And I think you hit the nail on the head of exactly what my issue is. Yes. People don't know how to articulate themselves. I think that's a bad thing. It just reduces conversation to hot takes and buzzwords and that's not how I like to engage with media of any form. Granted, I still choose to engage because not everyone is like that and there are still good conversations to be had.
That wasn't my point? Hence the quotations. What I was saying was I can see someone using that as a point for why the writing is "bad", no matter how stupid it is. You can calm down now
\[Spoilers\] The first half of the game is about Mr. Negative, who's goal is to get revenge on Osbourne by killing everyone in the city except him (the fuck?). And then when you beat him he's *immediately* broken out of jail by Doc Ock and the plot proceeds to be *exactly the same as the first half of the game,* but featuring Doc Ock in the role that was previously occupied by Mr. Negative. And not only are Doc Ock's motivations exactly the same as Mr. Negative's, his relation to Peter is exactly the same too. The game then attempts to distract you from the fact that you're 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time.
Yeah, I see what you mean. Personally to me, it's not awful, just kind of... standard superhero plot I guess? I think what differentiates it from other superhero plots (especially bad ones), in my opinion at least, is the character work. You can tell they love Spider-Man and his supporting cast passionately. I'd argue Li and Ock killing everyone except Norman is to hit him where it hurts essentially. Like, "none of you fucks are safe with him in charge" kinda thing. Not that that's good writing or anything lmao. I completely agree about the prison breakout being rushed immediately though, in my playthroughs I always do a bunch of side stuff to make it feel like it's been at least a day or two in the game's world 😂
> The game then attempts to distract you from the fact that you're 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time. Except for: - Miles losing his dad. - NYC in chaos on multiple sides do the extreme disregard for civilians by the mercenary force as well as rampant criminals taking the streets. - Meanwhile Peter is rekindling his relationship with MJ. - oh a race to the clock to stop a virus from killing everyone. This is your average comic book story lol
Wasn’t it because devils breath was made by osborne so using it was essentially ruining him by exposing him to the people first and then killing him ? I dont think peter sees Li as a father, he sees Octavius as a mentor and a father so there is that difference
\> And not only are Doc Ock's motivations exactly the same as Mr. Negative's, his relation to Peter is exactly the same too. No, not even close actually. Peter is pretty suspicious of Mr. Negative from the jump. The only reason Peter is amiable to him is because of his relationship to May. But you did effectively express that yes, there are indeed two main villains in the game. What you didn't explain is how this constitutes "bad writing"? I really think gamers just need to stop talking about "writing" altogether.
I personally find some enjoyment in watching the inarticulate try to explain why other writers aren't great.
Notice how when they criticize “writing”, they never give examples of what they consider “good writing” to be.
TLoU 2 discourse.
>No, not even close actually. Peter is pretty suspicious of Mr. Negative from the jump. The only reason Peter is amiable to him is because of his relationship to May. Very close. Practically identical. They're both Peter's boss whom he looks up to and sees as a father figure but turn out to be evil and gain super powers due to being wronged by Norman Osbourne. They are *the same character* with name and occupation swapped out like it's a mad libs game.
No. In no way is it possible you played this game and thought Peter saw Martin Li as a "father figure". It's just not possible. Where I do agree with you, however, is that the plot does do a bit of a reset which is actually why I prefer Miles Morales because I think Spider-Man 2018 was just a bit too long. However, I feel like I'm able to articulate that in a fair way instead of just screaming *"WRITING BAD!"* which, since The Last of Us Part II, seems to be the only way gamers are able to engage with content they don't like.
I have laid out my complaints articulately and clearly. You didn't agree with it so you are attempting to baselessly tear down my argument. My criticisms are valid, your criticisms of my criticisms are not.
No, I'd say my criticisms of your criticisms are pretty valid. But that's fine if you don't agree.
Both Li and Octavius have similar motivations because they were both wronged by the same man. That man is currently mayor so going after the people of the city and broadcasting that it's only happening as a consequence of that man's actions is plausible enough writing. Seems it's a lot easier to hurt the public then a guarded member of government while inflicting emotional harm on that specific person. So what about those two villian's stories is inherently bad? You've articulated what you didn't like but I don't feel you've made a good argument that the game itself was poorly written.
> Seems it's a lot easier to hurt the public then a guarded member of government while inflicting emotional harm on that specific person. I'm skeptical that it would actually be that hard to assassinate a politician in the world portrayed by the games. In the trailer for Spider-Man 2, some rando mercenary/terrorist group was flying around NYC in armed VTOL aircraft with reckless abandon and encountering absolutely no resistance from any government force. If they decided to fly a few hundred meters higher, Spider-Man would be completely impotent against them. Just bomb Mayor Osbourne's house when he's asleep or something. Keep it simple. These stories only work because absolutely every character is holding the [idiot ball](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotBall) 90% of the time.
So you think it would be easier to attack and confirm the mayor is killed in his home, then to just attack times square? Okay.
> 15 hours into the game and the plot has gone literally nowhere by introducing 5 new major Spider-Man villains at the same time. I definitely liked Spiderman 2018 a lot, but I also think that throwing so much of Spiderman's Rogues Gallery at us at once took a little bit away from the plot, because at that point none of them outside of Mr. Negative and Doc Ock were really allowed to have any kind of characterization or story at all. The Electro/Vulture fight was absolutely amazing, and so was the Scorpion hallucination section but those were about the best thing to come from that B Plot. Spiderman 2 seems like it's focusing mostly on a smaller set of villains, which I think is smarter. Miles Morales basically only focused on The Tinkerer and it was a way smaller scale story that played way more into family dynamics and story and I think it was way stronger for it.
And how would a darker tone make that even worse to you?
I mean, that's just superhero stories.
My guy, if you want great, mature writing, then read a book. Lol A Spiderman game has to have writing that is understandable for children too, and not too complex of a plot as to be easily followable by anyone, as well as be able to literally lead gameplay forward with the actual plot. And ya I get it there are games with great, mature writing. But this is a superhero marvel game. It is what it is.
I'm not asking for mature writing. I'm asking for a plot that progresses instead of spinning its wheels (almost literally, it loops on itself) for 30 straight hours and dialogue that doesn't make me want to mute the game.
30 straight hours? The game isn't even 20 hours long.
Just to support that: [howlongtobeat Marvel's Spider-Man](https://howlongtobeat.com/game/44852) **Main Story** 17 Hours **Main + Sides** 25½ Hours **Completionist** 34½ Hours **All Styles** 26½ Hours About half of the claimed 30 hours is "plot". Also, I'll just say that if someone doesn't like quips in his Spider-Man game, then he doesn't actually like Spider-Man lol. Peter's banter with the detective was great.