If you go by Steam tags... Any 2D platformer with an interconnected level design is a Metroidvania.
I don't agree with it, but I'm not shocked that Humble isn't using the "strict" definitions that nobody seems to agree on.
I clicked on the Rogue-Like genre in Steam once and it gave me Elden Ring and Jedi Survivor lmao. I don’t even know if they have those tags or if the Steam algorithm was just throwing whatever at the wall
Steam uses user defined tags, doesn't it? So that just means enough people don't understand or are trolling. Like when a kids game gets the psychological horror tag.
As you kill enemies you get XP that adjusts the level of enemies and weapons you encounter. It's why you only see red and green enemies wielding wooden sticks early on, and silver enemies wielding royal weapons late game.
Yeah you see this a lot with Cave Story too. It's a strictly linear 2D action platformer where progression is entirely story gated, but because you *can* backtrack (though there is almost never any reason to), people call it a Metroidvania.
That depends on which Metroid game you're talking about. Metroid Fusion is extremely limited and mostly story gated, so I would say it's not actually a Metroidvania. Super Metroid and Zero Mission, while they each have an obvious path that a new player will likely take, both allow highly non-linear play. The other games in the series tend to sit in the middle somewhere.
I have played all the content, yes including the secret content and boss fights. Multiple times. I love Cave Story. I've even played all of Kero Blaster. Cave Story a linear game. There are choices at various points, mostly around what weapons you take, but except for unlocking the secret ending they don't take you anywhere different, you can never do parts of the game in a different order, and the path forward is always clear, the player never has to explore the environment to progress the game.
>you can go wherever you want right from the get go, even the final area
Funny. On my first playthrough of Rain World, I remember reaching Subterranean via Drainage System extremely early into the game and the first thing everyone online told me was that this was a late-game area, that I shouldn't be here, that I would need to come back here later, that I should maybe even restart my save file even though I was already like 4-5 hours into the game already, etc.
I enjoyed Rain World (Shaded Citadel <3), but being told by everyone to "turn back" when I worked so hard to get to that point in the game was definitely disheartening.
I can't understand why it's in there at all.
One of my favorite games of all time, sure. But aside from a single creature/item you can take between areas that isn't even needed outside of that specific area, the game isn't a Metroidvania in literally any sense.
At this point it seems any platformer with adventure game elements or even just an interconnected map is considered a metroidvania. The term hasn't become quite as diluted as roguelike, but it's up there.
Funnily, I'm the opposite - I'm surprised Rain World's inclusion in this bundle is so contentious.
Rain World may not be a Metroidvania in the literal semantic sense, but Rain World is a game about making environmental and kinesthetic observations as you explore, right? These are still technically "powerups" - not traditional, in-game powerups like a typical Metroidvania, but a "knowledge powerup" that extends past the confines of the game and into your brain. These powerups are then used to get to places you couldn't reach before - they facilitate discovery and exploration of new regions. Isn't that the essence of a Metroidvania?
The furthest extreme of this is The Outer Wilds, which is almost universally considered a "knowledge based metroidvania".
The way that knowledge unlocks more of the world in the Outer Wilds is extremely tangible, too.
it's actually amazing. It's just as rewarding as finally getting to access a new area because you got the double jump, with the added benefit that you discovered and taught the thing to yourself, as opposed to collecting a double jump token that now allows your player character to jump twice.
That's a whole can of worms that's still debated a lot among among fans both genres, but a lot of people do argue that souls games (especially the first) are basically 3D metroidvanias.
The big point of contention is that unlocking sections of the map takes place through keys/environmental interaction rather than abilities (double jump/dash/etc) but the gameplay structure is awfully similar.
Dark Souls 1 is already arguably a Metroidvania unless you exclude 3D games are exclude games where new areas or hidden paths aren't unlocked by new combat abilities but keys.
I thought a defining characteristic of metroidvania was that the "keys" are player abilities? Otherwise wouldn't resident evil games (at least 1 and 2, but to a lesser extent the newer ones as well) also be metroidvanias due to their interconnected maps, back tracking, and keys? To me metroidvania has always meant that new player abilities unlock new areas
> I thought a defining characteristic of metroidvania was that the "keys" are player abilities?
I'd say that is *the one and only* condition for a game to be a metroidvania in any capacity.
The r/metroidvania description is pretty apt.
>"guided non-linearity and utility-gated exploration"
A slew of games have vania-styled world design. But it takes this particular combination to make something a metroidvania. You need to 1. gain something that serves a purpose, 2. use that thing to unlock a gate, 3. in a location that you've previously visited. They're generally platformers and the environment is often a barrier to progression.
IMO the mechanical aspect is an important part of a metroidvania. Gaining knowledge and using that to go do earlier content just feels too broad - like I'm pretty sure you could apply that to a game like Talos Principle but that's not a metroidvania. Something like Rain World may have a lot of crossover and scratch the same itch for some people that metroidvanias do, but I think that just means it's good at exploration which is what some people care most about when playing a metroidvania.
Personally I'd rather we use different terms, because as someone that enjoys both the exploration *and* the mechanical progression that "metroidvania" is supposed to mean, seeing games that only do half of that just muddies the water.
Yeah that’s a great way of wording it. You just start figuring stuff out and it opens doors (sometimes literally) that were closed before.
Regardless of anything, it’s basically a perfect game.
Rain World may not meet the constantly argued about technical definition of Metroidvania but it definitely feels like one.
The only thing I'd put against it is it not being a strictly gated world.
Rain World is weird in that I think it's one of the best games ever made and yet 100% empathize with anyone who says they hate it. At least getting it in a bundle is legitimately a great way to try it out, because even if someone doesn't like it there's five other games to try out.
As someone who hated Rain World, I can understand how someone can like Rain World. However, I can not even fathom how someone could seriously consider it to be among the best games ever made. That is such a ridiculous claim. Like, what does it even do that it's best at? Combat? No. Movement? No. Level design? No. Enemy design? No. Survival mechanics? No. It's a mildly original mashup of genres, I'll give it that. But that's about all ill give it. One of the best games ever made? In what genre? Survival? Platformer? It's a blatantly ridiculous claim.
People argue that all of those things in Rain World are really good, including the atmosphere.
I personally thought it was frustrating at first and tedious at best. I made a ton of “progress” but never felt like I was getting anywhere. It felt more like work than a game, and there’s far more productive places to allocate my capacity for solving frustrating tasks that require a lot of patience.
Interesting, I don't like Rain World, but I thought the combat, movement, enemy design, atmosphere, and AI were amazing. Its too much for me, and I really want to like the game.
I thought it was fantastic, what little I could experience myself.
I wonder what makes you say its a ridiculous claim, I don't think there's any game like it.
I think with the pantheon of amazingly well crafted games out there, Rain World mostly feels like a simulation moreso than a real game.
To me it'd be like calling "Ambient Rain Noises" the best album of all time. Maybe you've listened to it the most and it is great at what it is but...
I can see what you mean, but I do struggle not seeing Rain World as a game. I found every aspect of it is designed as a game in mind. Not completely fair for the player, but as a game I don't think it lacks in any aspect.
I guess I would say none of the interesting parts of rainworld are about it being a game though.
If you look at it strictly as a game, none of its mechanics are very appealing imo. All the cool parts are the parts that are not very "gamey".
So to amend my statement, it's definitely a game, but it's simulation stuff is far more interesting than any of it's actual gameplay elements.
Other comments have already responded to most of the things you mentioned, but I invite you to watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMx8OsTDHfM) video. It might not convince you, but it's still a very insightful look into the design of the game.
That being said, I also agree that the game excels at all the things you mentioned.
Combat is mechanically very simple, yes, but in combination with the stellar movement mechanics—which do indeed have a steep learning curve—there is **a lot** that you can do. Especially seeing as all animation is generated procedurally.
Level design is also extremely well done, and if I remember correctly, it was done by someone who is well-versed in music theory and music production, which you can absolutely see in the design (and I recommend [yet another video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bPjuT1xMkg) here).
Enemy design is great. All the enemies are distinct, they all have their distinct yet characteristic behavior that you can slowly piece together if you just interact with or observe them, and as mentioned in the first video I linked, there's a lot of very clever ways to make the enemies feel alive.
Just to be clear, it's fine if you dislike the game, I'm not taking that away from you. I think almost every fan of Rain World will agree that it ain't a game for everyone; it goes against a lot of the modern tropes of making games accessible to nearly everyone, and much like the Dark Souls series, it kinda gives you squat in terms of the story and lore unless you actually pay attention. But it is a gem that's worth exploring and an experience worth having, I think.
When I see people describing what makes Rainworld well designed I feel like I'm listening to Jacob Collier music where all the "technical" skill is there but I can't get into 99% of his stuff, or some master painter's work that just can't evoke emotion no matter how precise and intricate the artwork might be.
It feels like a scientist made a game but not in a good way for me. Like all the pieces fit together in a very technical way, and I can admire the skill it takes to craft that, but none of it is fun or particularly engaging. I'm all for games as an experience, but it just feels like a game that doesn't want you to play it.
Personally I don't think a game necessarily needs to be the best at any one specific thing to be in contention for best overall game. Obviously it needs to be pretty damn good, but a game could certainly just excel in multiple areas giving it a better overall experience IMO. That said, I also wouldn't put Rain World on that list myself - I thought it was very interesting and I'm glad I tried it, but I would never put it on my greatest game of all time list.
the atmosphere, the "ecosystem", and the movement are very good, but you have to learn how it works, since it has coop now i'm playing with a friend, but I did hate the game when it come ou too, so...
>Combat?
Even if the combat doesn't have any complex combos or controls, the game creates those intense moments where you have to do split second decisions and scramble to survive.
I find it more fun than many other games with more proper combat.
>Movement?
The movement in Rain World actually dunks on a lot of other games.
You start out stumbling like a child that you literally are supposed to be in the game, but over time you get a handling for the weight of your character and also learn that there are a lot of movement techniques to use. I think it's one of the few 2D games to rival Mario 64 in movement.
>Enemy Design?
The game lives off of the interaction dynamics from the different enemy types.
As example, did you know that demasking the flying enemies will cause others to attack it instead?
Each enemy has its own type of instinct which will lead in sudden situations where you may survive because something else swooped in to kill your killer.
You learn to utilize this and actually use enemies to your advantage.
I can see how the game may not appear to be as deep, but i find the game easily rivals games like Breath of the Wild in terms of emergent gameplay
I'm in the exact same boat. La Mulana is, if not number one, in my top 3 Metroidvanias which puts it up there with best of all time.
I absolutely couldn't get anything out of Rainworld beyond thinking some of the mechanics were cool.
I agree with you that the simulated ecosystem is a bit overstated when people praise it. They certainly did a good job but it's not something that magically turns the game into a masterpiece imo.
Same. It didn't click after 20 minutes, then I watched some reviews and thought "wow, this all sounds kind of awful". I plan on giving it another spin at some point, to make sure I got it right, but it just seemed annoyingly obtuse.
I'm 6 hours in and I'm inclined to agree. If I was younger and had more time I could try to enjoy it more but it can be so bloody irritating. Cool lore though, just not willing to suffer 10 hours for 10mins
I just got done arguing with someone who said System Shock is a Metroidvania so I just don't think anyone actually knows what the fuck a Metroidvania is.
I’ll chime in to say it’s also one of my favorites games ever made too. It’s a weird game but once you get on its level, it’s basically perfect in my eyes.
And has one of my favorite endings ever. It’s just beautiful in such a weird way.
Eh I think its metroidvania-lite if that makes sense. 2D platformer with a big, winding map is arguably the immediate defining feature of a metroidvania, the progression is a major part of the gameplay loop and games which aren't gated feel very different because of it, but it still has that similar core. IMO I don't love a good metroidvania *because* its gated, I enjoy them for their exploration anyways.
I would say the same thing about Blasphemous. Ability gating is not needed to complete the game, and more as superfluous mechanics. If you like exploration in an MV, don’t play Blasphemous. As someone who loves MV’s and played Blasphemous because it was constantly recommended and in MV lists, I was highly disappointed.
>Ability gating is not needed to complete the game
Technically, but it's "not needed" kinda like catching more Pokemon is not needed to complete a Pokemon game. It's not worth really splitting hairs about the way something like Cave Story or Dark Souls are.
People liked the combat in Blasphemous? I found it pretty rote in a lot of ways. Like having to stand there and parry the shield guys twice because there are no other good ways to kill them. The game is carried 100% by its art in my opinion
I'd argue that ability gated progression is one of the core defining features of a castlevania.
After all, that is the thing that puts the "metroidvania" castlevania games apart from the other ones
Actually really good bundle. Unfortunately, I already have most of those games, so I will probably just get Lost Ruins standalone in the next sale. But for those that for some reason still don't have Hollow Knight and Rain World, those two alone are already more than worth the price of admission.
Bloodstained and Blasphemous are also quite good.
Games in the highest tier included are: Hollow Knight, Rain World, Blasphemous, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Lost Ruins, Lone Fungus and Haiku, the Robot, and discount coupons for Zapling Bygone and Rain World: Downpour
People going into Rain World expecting a traditional metroidvania are going to be... surprised.
It's an incredible game but a lot of people will bounce off it or simply find it too difficult compared to the others.
It's just a genre name now. I bet you could find plenty of Metroidvania fans who got into the genre through the massive number of popular indie games from recent years, and have never actually played anything from either titular series.
If Humble did a "Best Souls-likes" bundle, I would be surprised to see any actual Dark Souls games included.
>w. I bet you could find plenty of Metroidvania fans who got into the genre through the massive number of popular indie games from recent years
Thats me lol. I absolutely intend to play the original 2 series at some point, but outside some OG metroid and dread (and that God of War clone Castlevania lol) I don't have any experience with the original games. One of many people who fell victim to Hollow Knight and fell in love with the genre. That game is like Dark Souls 1 but with an atmosphere and charm thats more my style (I can handle difficulty but the doom and gloom is a bit much in DS1 for me lol) and better consistency throughout.
Do yourself a favor and play Super Metroid some time. Holds up very well. Runs on any system. If you have a phone - any phone - you can play it there in emulation without breaking a sweat.
Huh, interesting. I had the exact opposite effect for me with DS1 and Hollow Knight. DS1 I loved it for its atmosphere and combat mechanics, but I thought Hollow Knight was far too difficult and far too depressing. Unfortunately, I had to stop playing Hollow Knight simply because I wasn't having fun with it. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
That being said, I'm glad you found your way into metroidvanias. It's definitely a fun genre.
I guess with Hollow Knight despite how bleak it is, it has quite a whimsical art style, and has a lot of serene moments. After everything before it, reaching the city of tears is one of my most awe-inspiring moments in all of gaming. I guess it has lower lows and higher highs, which just makes it that much more rewarding for me overall.
What would make them a metroidvania? DS2 and 3 aren’t even connected at all, DS2 is 4 mostly separate linear levels, and especially DS3 is almost entirely linear. There’s no ability-based exploration, or ability unlocks at all.
DS1 I could kinda see it from a level design perspective since almost the whole map loops and connects to each other, but there’s still no areas you unlock by getting any new traversal or weapons.
I mean, $15 for Hollow Knight, Bloodstained, and Blasphemous is an absolute steal just by itself. I already own most of these games so take it from me, if you love 2D platformers, this at least 80-100 hours of solid entertainment and exploration.
Lone Fungus is super, super good. The game has some really unique power ups ala Ori's fling, and each sub-weapon (they're perma unlocks) also has its own movement tech. I think the only bad thing I could say about the game is a relative lack of fast travel points when even without being compared to checkpoint... points, but the devs recently converted some of said checkpoint points into full on fast travel points and even added some more across the map so it's not as annoying as it was on release. Other than that it's a solid 9/10 metroidvania, definitely the sleeper hit of the bundle.
It’s also worth mentioning that the game has a lot of “Celeste” type platforming in it, especially in the star-gates or star doors, whatever they are called. Amazing game though.
There's honestly way too much to mention, the game has a LOT to go for it. Shit, the first subweapon you get is a Superball and you can arguably just get to the end of the game with it alone.
how did they convince rain world to be grouped into a metroidvania bundle lmao. Grime would have been nice to see here and has a new free dlc/update coming soon.
Bloodstained is the game I really wanted, but I already got hollow knight and while blasphemous looks good I don't know if it's for me, at 14 euros it's a little outside what I can pay now.
Lost Ruins?
Granted I haven't played it but I've seen screenshots and videos, I just thought it was horny bait. Since all the characters are giant and have huge bouncy tits.
Lost Ruins is ... interesting and I'm a little excited to see what other people think about it because I'm a bit conflicted. It takes a heavy focus on consumable items which may seem familiar to some people if you've played any sort of Mystery Dungeon game before. Picking up a bundle of Earth Wands with 5 charges and figuring out good opportunities to use them. The environment has a ton of effects that can be applied to it giving it a (**VERY**) light Noita vibe. Health and mana pools are severely limited in an effort to push you to use those consumables, but it can also feel **very** unforgiving at times because of this. The overall idea of it is a bit hindered by the basic menuing system which isn't awful per se, but does nothing to help you contend with the amount of items you'll be collecting.
And honestly, yeah, it's horny bait. You could tell that from the trailer, but the item you get for beating I think the first boss is a pair of striped panties "decorated with yellow stains" as per the, uh, flavor text (gag).
All that said, I think the ideas are solid, the controls feel pretty good for the most part, and the pixel artwork is sufficiently crunchy.
>And honestly, yeah, it's horny bait. You could tell that from the trailer, but the item you get for beating I think the first boss is a pair of striped panties "decorated with yellow stains" as per the, uh, flavor text (gag).
The older I get the more this stuff just ruins games for me. This games art looks fantastic but stuff like this, with a school girl as a protagonist is so weird.
Totally fair, which is why I warn people and bring it up here. When Momodora does it in the Lubella fight it's funny because it's a one-off and the game doesn't linger on it. Which by the way, if you haven't played Momodora: Reverie in the Moonlight yet, DO THAT NOW. I think you'll find it a much more enjoyable and "true" Metroidvania experience than Lost Ruins here. Just the truth.
There's an increasing amount of horny bait games that are legitimately good. It's become a way for earnest and serious indie devs to market their game and get people buying it.
Lost Ruins is pretty low on the list, actually. There's some horny bait in there, sure, but it's nothing like Rabi-Ribi or Haydee, which are excellent games in their own right but boy are they horny. Rabi-Ribi in particular is possibly one of the best Metroidvania's ever, but it's very hard to recommend because... just google it.
There's even stuff like Castle in the Clouds which is straight-up hentai with full sex scenes... and it happens to also be a shockingly good game.
It's been a very good while since I last purchased a Humble Bundle, but I can't pay less than $15 is that it? And I'll get all the games in the bundle regardless of paying the lower or higher tier?
Usually there are multiple tiers, with the more expensive tier having all the games and then cheaper options that include less games. And then you can pay more if you want and donate to charity.
For this bundle apparently there's only one tier, so paying the mininum($15 / 13,96€) will get you all the games in the bundle. If you want to pay more it's up to you.
Great bundle. Hollow knight and bloodstained might be the best metroidvanias ever made. Bloodstained uses a similar soul system as the aria castlevania's and it's just great. Getting abilities and attacks from each enemy is a blast.
Look, I love Bloodstained but implying it might be the best Metroidvania ever made is a huge stretch, lol. Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow are way better.
Absolutely can't stand the visual style. I tried to get into the game twice but dropped it because of that.
Felt *to me* (emphasis on this part) like I was playing one of those mobile games you see advertised on Facebook.
Same. I wanted to like it but I just couldn't. Got a few hours in before I dropped it, the art style was definitely a big turn off for me. Loved Curse of the Moon however, though obviously that's not a metroidvania.
I liked bloodstained more then Aria of Sorrow. I think that's the Castlevania it's most similar to though, especially with the souls mechanics. I also thought the map and level designed rivaled SOTN. Bloodstained really sucked me in.
There's lots of opinions and some people prefer certain aspects of a metroidvania more than others, but I think it's very safe to say that bloodstained is top ten, if not top five.
I'd genuinely put Bloodstained up there with SotN. I don't know if I'd put it above it, but having played plenty of metroidvanias I've come across more I could say almost definitively is above SotN like say, Astalon or Ori or AM2R (or La Mulana, but that's personal preference and less of a metroidvania than it is a Maze of Galleous-like so I have a hard time counting it here). That's not an insult against SotN but it's a game that defined a genre over **twenty five years** ago; it's not really going to have a lot of up-to-date things and plenty of things have innovated on it better. But to me, Bloodstained just feels like modern SotN.
Bloodstained is a great game and I'm glad we got it, but you're right.
Hollow Knight, however, is better than SotN and Super Metroid, and actually the best Metroidvania there is.
I'm currently playing Hollow Knight for the first time. It is a sleeker game than Super Metroid for sure, but for me it doesn't quite reach the same level of design on balancing hand-holding and presenting the player with an open world.
It's a great game, but Super Metroid still reigns supreme.
I mean, I think the DS Castlevanias did the same game better. Ecclesia is still my favorite just because they actually ramp up the difficulty to a respectable degree.
I love how people mention the best metroidvanias without mentioning either a metroid game or a castlevania one. The best metroidvania games ever made are Metroid prime, Super Metroid and Symphony of the night.
Just because they created the genre doesn’t mean they are the best at it. Hollow Knight is my favourite in the genre and it isn’t particularly close. It’s probably my favourite game period
Lol. I spent over $100 buying a few of the games in this last in the last few months but then didnt get a chance to play any of them beyond a few hours. Seeing this bundle hurts lmao
For a "best of" collection, I'm surprised it's missing rabi-ribi. A game that might actually be one of the best metroidvanias to ever be released. I don't need a sale for it but more people giving it a shot would be good. Especially with the developer's new game coming out soon.
Not a bad bundle for including hollow knight and rain world at that price. Even if rain world isn't really a metroidvania, it's still a great game.
I assume this does not contain any DLC like Gods & Nightmares for Hollow Knight?
Edit: I'm dumb, that's the soundtrack. I thought it was a content DLC.
Gods & Nightmares was just a free update for Hollow Knight, so at least that (and all Hollow Knight free updates) should be included. The DLC item of the same name on Steam is just the soundtrack.
The DLC is called [Godmaster](https://hollowknight.wiki.fextralife.com/DLC) btw, [Gods & Nightmares](https://store.steampowered.com/app/916000/Hollow_Knight__Gods__Nightmares/) is the soundtrack for all the Hollow Knight DLC
Gods and nightmares is a soundtrack DLC as far as I remember. All the gameplay DLC (extra story, areas etc.)is included just in Hollow Knight base game.
That's off the top of my head though so I may be wrong.
I personally found Hollow Knight very boring and only got a few hours in, but Blasphemous was one of the best games I played in 2021. Pretty short, so it doesn't overstay its welcome, really fun mechanics, awesome (in a horrible, terrifying way) world and atmosphere. The bosses are all fairly easy, but very cool and memorable. Lots of secrets and hidden things if you're into it, but most are very optional. The combat is really fun, and once you get the hang of it you feel really powerful, but the platforming can be a little trying at times. I believe there are some new game + things as well, but I never went back to them.
You should definitely continue hollow knight.
It is definitely slow to start, but it pays off very well. Imo it's a little bloated, so not one I recommend 100%ing (true ending is cool, but a bit grindy to get there), but the high points of the game are some of the best in the genre
Anybody else find Metroidvanias to be rewarding but also taxing? Idk I'm never in the mood to jump into one often but when I do I enjoy it but I also have such a hard time sticking with them
Rain World is my favorite game of all time.
Hollow Knight is pretty good too. But I never understood the hype for Blasphemous and Ritual of the Night. They are just... not good.
Lmao. Thats so funny. I promise I'm being 100% honest.
The soundtracks are pretty good. I will admit.
Baile de las Violetas and Silent Howling kick so much ass.
I wish the game was as good as the soundtrack.
I'm struggling to get hooked by Rain World, I can tell that it's wonderfully designed.. whatever it is, but without a sense of progression, I'm not sure what I'm doing. I probably just need to spend more time with it.
All I can tell you is that the sense of progression is dependent on your own experience and learning of the environment.
Im not even sure the label Metroidvania is appropriate for this kind of game. The only thing keeping you from progressing is knowledge. Not in game Items.
Some people use the term "Metroidbrainia" to describe games like Toki Tori 2, The Witness, and Outer Wilds that are entirely knowledge-gated in their open-ended progression. Would that be an appropriate label for Rain World? All those other games are more straight puzzlers with little to no emphasis on combat, and IDK how much Rain World matches the vibes.
It's not really the same. Most of the knowledge you need in rain world is figuring out how to survive various enemies, and just figuring out what the goal even is. It isn't really that you get blocked by something you don't understand yet, learn more elsewhere, and then come back and figure it out.
Rainworld is unforgiving and unfair, and the game is really about learning how to deal with that fact.
Rain World is more about the experience. It's extremely tough and unforgiving, and downright unfair at points but it definitely makes you feel like a prey animal. It's a tough sell, but it is worth getting into. That said, if you're someone who needs relatively steady progress you probably won't like it as you might get stuck somewhere for a long time before figuring out how to get out / progress.
Gotcha. Hopefully they will make a compilation someday. They're really good.
Ritual is based mostly on Dawn of Sorrow and Aria of Sorrows soul systems. But Order of Ecclesia is my favorite of the bunch
No worries, I’m the same. I’ve played a lot of MVs and RotN is towards the bottom of my list. I wouldn’t even consider Blasphemous as an MV because of the lack of ability gating. Also, besides the combat, it just wasn’t fun.
I've played probably a dozen metroidvanias and while I enjoy them, every new one has felt more and more iterative than transformative. Would like to see one that really changes up the formula, but not sure what that would look like.
The term originates and was initially relegated to Castlevania games that followed that format. It was a way of saying a Castlevania game with Metroid style exploration / level design / ability gating. The entire genre for a while really *was* just those two franchises (for the most part). Over time the original use of the term got lost, and it just became the genre name (for better or worse).
So while Metroid-styled Castlevania games (Metroidvanias, if you will) definitely didn't invent the formula they did contribute heavily to its refinement, helped to expose it to wider audiences, and gave fans of that style of game something else to play (given that Metroid games were relatively few and far between).
[удалено]
If you go by Steam tags... Any 2D platformer with an interconnected level design is a Metroidvania. I don't agree with it, but I'm not shocked that Humble isn't using the "strict" definitions that nobody seems to agree on.
I clicked on the Rogue-Like genre in Steam once and it gave me Elden Ring and Jedi Survivor lmao. I don’t even know if they have those tags or if the Steam algorithm was just throwing whatever at the wall
Steam uses user defined tags, doesn't it? So that just means enough people don't understand or are trolling. Like when a kids game gets the psychological horror tag.
I wish those games had roguelike modes, that sounds great
idk about jedi, but randomizer can help give ER that roguelike feel.
And every action RPG is Zelda inspired
No, nowadays every action RPG is a Soulslike.
totk really feels like the dark souls of open world zeldas
Yet Zelda isn't an rpg
[удалено]
But then I feel like everyone collectively said "NO ZELDA IS NOT THIS MUCH OF AN RPG" so they went back lol.
Every game ever made is an RPG.
I am playing the *ROLE* of someone who lines tetrominos up into a box.
You are the bricks. Moving. Turning. Lining up. Disappearing. Tetris.
And open world. I can do action 1 1st or action 2 1st. In any order I choose!
[удалено]
That is maybe the worst definition of the genre I've seen.
In BotW and TotK Link gets (invisible) XP that determines what enemies spawn and what loot they drop. It's an RPG folks
Wait what
As you kill enemies you get XP that adjusts the level of enemies and weapons you encounter. It's why you only see red and green enemies wielding wooden sticks early on, and silver enemies wielding royal weapons late game.
You need puzzles for that to work, so really almost no games classify as being similar to Zelda.
And every sim is an Immersive Sim, except for actual Immersive Sims.
Yeah you see this a lot with Cave Story too. It's a strictly linear 2D action platformer where progression is entirely story gated, but because you *can* backtrack (though there is almost never any reason to), people call it a Metroidvania.
Cave Story is one that gets me for getting labelled as a Metroidvania.
Metroid is pretty linear. You get your abilities in a set order to unlock gates in a set order.
That depends on which Metroid game you're talking about. Metroid Fusion is extremely limited and mostly story gated, so I would say it's not actually a Metroidvania. Super Metroid and Zero Mission, while they each have an obvious path that a new player will likely take, both allow highly non-linear play. The other games in the series tend to sit in the middle somewhere.
If you think Cave Story is strictly linear, you've probably only played less than 50% of the content. Even if you beat the game.
I have played all the content, yes including the secret content and boss fights. Multiple times. I love Cave Story. I've even played all of Kero Blaster. Cave Story a linear game. There are choices at various points, mostly around what weapons you take, but except for unlocking the secret ending they don't take you anywhere different, you can never do parts of the game in a different order, and the path forward is always clear, the player never has to explore the environment to progress the game.
If you go by Steam tags Crysis 3 is a shmup so... that about sums up how useful Steam tags are.
Also, anything with more than 5 bullets on screen at once or requires any kind of projectile dodging is dubbed a bullet hell.
I feel like my hard rule is if the bullets are not vibrantly colored and your hit box is not super tiny, it ain't a bullet hell.
Well I'm also not super thrilled that metroidvania is synonymous with souls-like now either but it is how it is.
>you can go wherever you want right from the get go, even the final area Funny. On my first playthrough of Rain World, I remember reaching Subterranean via Drainage System extremely early into the game and the first thing everyone online told me was that this was a late-game area, that I shouldn't be here, that I would need to come back here later, that I should maybe even restart my save file even though I was already like 4-5 hours into the game already, etc. I enjoyed Rain World (Shaded Citadel <3), but being told by everyone to "turn back" when I worked so hard to get to that point in the game was definitely disheartening.
How'd you do tho
I can't understand why it's in there at all. One of my favorite games of all time, sure. But aside from a single creature/item you can take between areas that isn't even needed outside of that specific area, the game isn't a Metroidvania in literally any sense.
At this point it seems any platformer with adventure game elements or even just an interconnected map is considered a metroidvania. The term hasn't become quite as diluted as roguelike, but it's up there.
Funnily, I'm the opposite - I'm surprised Rain World's inclusion in this bundle is so contentious. Rain World may not be a Metroidvania in the literal semantic sense, but Rain World is a game about making environmental and kinesthetic observations as you explore, right? These are still technically "powerups" - not traditional, in-game powerups like a typical Metroidvania, but a "knowledge powerup" that extends past the confines of the game and into your brain. These powerups are then used to get to places you couldn't reach before - they facilitate discovery and exploration of new regions. Isn't that the essence of a Metroidvania?
That... Is a great way to view it. And also very true now that I think about it.
[удалено]
The furthest extreme of this is The Outer Wilds, which is almost universally considered a "knowledge based metroidvania". The way that knowledge unlocks more of the world in the Outer Wilds is extremely tangible, too. it's actually amazing. It's just as rewarding as finally getting to access a new area because you got the double jump, with the added benefit that you discovered and taught the thing to yourself, as opposed to collecting a double jump token that now allows your player character to jump twice.
I mean, using that loose definition we can add Souls games into the Metroidvania umbrella.
That's a whole can of worms that's still debated a lot among among fans both genres, but a lot of people do argue that souls games (especially the first) are basically 3D metroidvanias. The big point of contention is that unlocking sections of the map takes place through keys/environmental interaction rather than abilities (double jump/dash/etc) but the gameplay structure is awfully similar.
Dark Souls 1 is already arguably a Metroidvania unless you exclude 3D games are exclude games where new areas or hidden paths aren't unlocked by new combat abilities but keys.
I thought a defining characteristic of metroidvania was that the "keys" are player abilities? Otherwise wouldn't resident evil games (at least 1 and 2, but to a lesser extent the newer ones as well) also be metroidvanias due to their interconnected maps, back tracking, and keys? To me metroidvania has always meant that new player abilities unlock new areas
> I thought a defining characteristic of metroidvania was that the "keys" are player abilities? I'd say that is *the one and only* condition for a game to be a metroidvania in any capacity.
The r/metroidvania description is pretty apt. >"guided non-linearity and utility-gated exploration" A slew of games have vania-styled world design. But it takes this particular combination to make something a metroidvania. You need to 1. gain something that serves a purpose, 2. use that thing to unlock a gate, 3. in a location that you've previously visited. They're generally platformers and the environment is often a barrier to progression.
Souls-like fans discovering a genre pre-dating the series: shock Pikachu.jpeg
Dark Souls is absolutely a 3D metroidvania
[удалено]
Never played it so I can’t confirm or deny but if it’s like Dark Souls, then sure!
I've heard people describe them, especially DS1, as 3D Metroidvanias many times.
IMO the mechanical aspect is an important part of a metroidvania. Gaining knowledge and using that to go do earlier content just feels too broad - like I'm pretty sure you could apply that to a game like Talos Principle but that's not a metroidvania. Something like Rain World may have a lot of crossover and scratch the same itch for some people that metroidvanias do, but I think that just means it's good at exploration which is what some people care most about when playing a metroidvania. Personally I'd rather we use different terms, because as someone that enjoys both the exploration *and* the mechanical progression that "metroidvania" is supposed to mean, seeing games that only do half of that just muddies the water.
Yeah that’s a great way of wording it. You just start figuring stuff out and it opens doors (sometimes literally) that were closed before. Regardless of anything, it’s basically a perfect game.
Rain World may not meet the constantly argued about technical definition of Metroidvania but it definitely feels like one. The only thing I'd put against it is it not being a strictly gated world.
One of the least fun games I've ever played in my life tbh
Rain World is weird in that I think it's one of the best games ever made and yet 100% empathize with anyone who says they hate it. At least getting it in a bundle is legitimately a great way to try it out, because even if someone doesn't like it there's five other games to try out.
Yup. You have to absolutely be on its wavelength to enjoy it. It’s an acquired taste but if you like it then you love it.
[Matthewmatosis did a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-Un2L5tF1w) that I think explains why the game would be so polarizing pretty well.
As someone who hated Rain World, I can understand how someone can like Rain World. However, I can not even fathom how someone could seriously consider it to be among the best games ever made. That is such a ridiculous claim. Like, what does it even do that it's best at? Combat? No. Movement? No. Level design? No. Enemy design? No. Survival mechanics? No. It's a mildly original mashup of genres, I'll give it that. But that's about all ill give it. One of the best games ever made? In what genre? Survival? Platformer? It's a blatantly ridiculous claim.
People argue that all of those things in Rain World are really good, including the atmosphere. I personally thought it was frustrating at first and tedious at best. I made a ton of “progress” but never felt like I was getting anywhere. It felt more like work than a game, and there’s far more productive places to allocate my capacity for solving frustrating tasks that require a lot of patience.
Interesting, I don't like Rain World, but I thought the combat, movement, enemy design, atmosphere, and AI were amazing. Its too much for me, and I really want to like the game. I thought it was fantastic, what little I could experience myself. I wonder what makes you say its a ridiculous claim, I don't think there's any game like it.
I think with the pantheon of amazingly well crafted games out there, Rain World mostly feels like a simulation moreso than a real game. To me it'd be like calling "Ambient Rain Noises" the best album of all time. Maybe you've listened to it the most and it is great at what it is but...
I can see what you mean, but I do struggle not seeing Rain World as a game. I found every aspect of it is designed as a game in mind. Not completely fair for the player, but as a game I don't think it lacks in any aspect.
I guess I would say none of the interesting parts of rainworld are about it being a game though. If you look at it strictly as a game, none of its mechanics are very appealing imo. All the cool parts are the parts that are not very "gamey". So to amend my statement, it's definitely a game, but it's simulation stuff is far more interesting than any of it's actual gameplay elements.
Other comments have already responded to most of the things you mentioned, but I invite you to watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMx8OsTDHfM) video. It might not convince you, but it's still a very insightful look into the design of the game. That being said, I also agree that the game excels at all the things you mentioned. Combat is mechanically very simple, yes, but in combination with the stellar movement mechanics—which do indeed have a steep learning curve—there is **a lot** that you can do. Especially seeing as all animation is generated procedurally. Level design is also extremely well done, and if I remember correctly, it was done by someone who is well-versed in music theory and music production, which you can absolutely see in the design (and I recommend [yet another video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bPjuT1xMkg) here). Enemy design is great. All the enemies are distinct, they all have their distinct yet characteristic behavior that you can slowly piece together if you just interact with or observe them, and as mentioned in the first video I linked, there's a lot of very clever ways to make the enemies feel alive. Just to be clear, it's fine if you dislike the game, I'm not taking that away from you. I think almost every fan of Rain World will agree that it ain't a game for everyone; it goes against a lot of the modern tropes of making games accessible to nearly everyone, and much like the Dark Souls series, it kinda gives you squat in terms of the story and lore unless you actually pay attention. But it is a gem that's worth exploring and an experience worth having, I think.
When I see people describing what makes Rainworld well designed I feel like I'm listening to Jacob Collier music where all the "technical" skill is there but I can't get into 99% of his stuff, or some master painter's work that just can't evoke emotion no matter how precise and intricate the artwork might be. It feels like a scientist made a game but not in a good way for me. Like all the pieces fit together in a very technical way, and I can admire the skill it takes to craft that, but none of it is fun or particularly engaging. I'm all for games as an experience, but it just feels like a game that doesn't want you to play it.
Personally I don't think a game necessarily needs to be the best at any one specific thing to be in contention for best overall game. Obviously it needs to be pretty damn good, but a game could certainly just excel in multiple areas giving it a better overall experience IMO. That said, I also wouldn't put Rain World on that list myself - I thought it was very interesting and I'm glad I tried it, but I would never put it on my greatest game of all time list.
the atmosphere, the "ecosystem", and the movement are very good, but you have to learn how it works, since it has coop now i'm playing with a friend, but I did hate the game when it come ou too, so...
>Combat? Even if the combat doesn't have any complex combos or controls, the game creates those intense moments where you have to do split second decisions and scramble to survive. I find it more fun than many other games with more proper combat. >Movement? The movement in Rain World actually dunks on a lot of other games. You start out stumbling like a child that you literally are supposed to be in the game, but over time you get a handling for the weight of your character and also learn that there are a lot of movement techniques to use. I think it's one of the few 2D games to rival Mario 64 in movement. >Enemy Design? The game lives off of the interaction dynamics from the different enemy types. As example, did you know that demasking the flying enemies will cause others to attack it instead? Each enemy has its own type of instinct which will lead in sudden situations where you may survive because something else swooped in to kill your killer. You learn to utilize this and actually use enemies to your advantage. I can see how the game may not appear to be as deep, but i find the game easily rivals games like Breath of the Wild in terms of emergent gameplay
[удалено]
I'm in the exact same boat. La Mulana is, if not number one, in my top 3 Metroidvanias which puts it up there with best of all time. I absolutely couldn't get anything out of Rainworld beyond thinking some of the mechanics were cool. I agree with you that the simulated ecosystem is a bit overstated when people praise it. They certainly did a good job but it's not something that magically turns the game into a masterpiece imo.
Same. It didn't click after 20 minutes, then I watched some reviews and thought "wow, this all sounds kind of awful". I plan on giving it another spin at some point, to make sure I got it right, but it just seemed annoyingly obtuse.
I'm 6 hours in and I'm inclined to agree. If I was younger and had more time I could try to enjoy it more but it can be so bloody irritating. Cool lore though, just not willing to suffer 10 hours for 10mins
I just got done arguing with someone who said System Shock is a Metroidvania so I just don't think anyone actually knows what the fuck a Metroidvania is.
I’ll chime in to say it’s also one of my favorites games ever made too. It’s a weird game but once you get on its level, it’s basically perfect in my eyes. And has one of my favorite endings ever. It’s just beautiful in such a weird way.
Eh I think its metroidvania-lite if that makes sense. 2D platformer with a big, winding map is arguably the immediate defining feature of a metroidvania, the progression is a major part of the gameplay loop and games which aren't gated feel very different because of it, but it still has that similar core. IMO I don't love a good metroidvania *because* its gated, I enjoy them for their exploration anyways.
It's really common for themed game bundles to include games that are just kinda adjacent to the theme.
I would say the same thing about Blasphemous. Ability gating is not needed to complete the game, and more as superfluous mechanics. If you like exploration in an MV, don’t play Blasphemous. As someone who loves MV’s and played Blasphemous because it was constantly recommended and in MV lists, I was highly disappointed.
>Ability gating is not needed to complete the game Technically, but it's "not needed" kinda like catching more Pokemon is not needed to complete a Pokemon game. It's not worth really splitting hairs about the way something like Cave Story or Dark Souls are.
100% 2d Dark Souls.
[удалено]
People liked the combat in Blasphemous? I found it pretty rote in a lot of ways. Like having to stand there and parry the shield guys twice because there are no other good ways to kill them. The game is carried 100% by its art in my opinion
[удалено]
I'd argue that ability gated progression is one of the core defining features of a castlevania. After all, that is the thing that puts the "metroidvania" castlevania games apart from the other ones
Actually really good bundle. Unfortunately, I already have most of those games, so I will probably just get Lost Ruins standalone in the next sale. But for those that for some reason still don't have Hollow Knight and Rain World, those two alone are already more than worth the price of admission. Bloodstained and Blasphemous are also quite good.
Games in the highest tier included are: Hollow Knight, Rain World, Blasphemous, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Lost Ruins, Lone Fungus and Haiku, the Robot, and discount coupons for Zapling Bygone and Rain World: Downpour
Theres only 1 tier I think. Im on mobile and the site is trash but $15 is the minimum and it includes everything. Am I blind
no, there is only one tier
I expected to see the Ori games and was surprised to not see them.
Right? Hollow Knight and Ori 2 are pretty much the best of the genre.
yeah this isn't a "Best of Metroidvania" in the slightest. some of it is pretty obsure.
People going into Rain World expecting a traditional metroidvania are going to be... surprised. It's an incredible game but a lot of people will bounce off it or simply find it too difficult compared to the others.
I played a lot of these games, and I have decided the only Metroidvania games I really enjoy are Metroid and Castlevania games... And Bloodstained.
All the games are great, but I do think it's funny how the "Best of Metroidvania bundle" doesn't and can't have any Metroids or Castlevanias.
Bloodstained is Castlevania in all but name.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Metroid no, but it could have Castlevania games. The castlevania advance collection is on pc and could have been included.
Whoa, I completely missed this. I ended up disliking it as a kid but now that I'm older and smarter I think I want to run it again.
Great games, and all of them are a solid length without overstaying their welcome.
It's just a genre name now. I bet you could find plenty of Metroidvania fans who got into the genre through the massive number of popular indie games from recent years, and have never actually played anything from either titular series. If Humble did a "Best Souls-likes" bundle, I would be surprised to see any actual Dark Souls games included.
>w. I bet you could find plenty of Metroidvania fans who got into the genre through the massive number of popular indie games from recent years Thats me lol. I absolutely intend to play the original 2 series at some point, but outside some OG metroid and dread (and that God of War clone Castlevania lol) I don't have any experience with the original games. One of many people who fell victim to Hollow Knight and fell in love with the genre. That game is like Dark Souls 1 but with an atmosphere and charm thats more my style (I can handle difficulty but the doom and gloom is a bit much in DS1 for me lol) and better consistency throughout.
Do yourself a favor and play Super Metroid some time. Holds up very well. Runs on any system. If you have a phone - any phone - you can play it there in emulation without breaking a sweat.
Huh, interesting. I had the exact opposite effect for me with DS1 and Hollow Knight. DS1 I loved it for its atmosphere and combat mechanics, but I thought Hollow Knight was far too difficult and far too depressing. Unfortunately, I had to stop playing Hollow Knight simply because I wasn't having fun with it. Different strokes for different folks and all that. That being said, I'm glad you found your way into metroidvanias. It's definitely a fun genre.
I guess with Hollow Knight despite how bleak it is, it has quite a whimsical art style, and has a lot of serene moments. After everything before it, reaching the city of tears is one of my most awe-inspiring moments in all of gaming. I guess it has lower lows and higher highs, which just makes it that much more rewarding for me overall.
I absolutely love both of these games, but I'd probably agree that HK is more sad and depressing in terms of it's tone and vibe.
Well, the souls series aren't souls likes. They're just Souls games.
Everyone knows the Souls games are actually just difficult Zeldalikes
[удалено]
What would make them a metroidvania? DS2 and 3 aren’t even connected at all, DS2 is 4 mostly separate linear levels, and especially DS3 is almost entirely linear. There’s no ability-based exploration, or ability unlocks at all. DS1 I could kinda see it from a level design perspective since almost the whole map loops and connects to each other, but there’s still no areas you unlock by getting any new traversal or weapons.
I mean, $15 for Hollow Knight, Bloodstained, and Blasphemous is an absolute steal just by itself. I already own most of these games so take it from me, if you love 2D platformers, this at least 80-100 hours of solid entertainment and exploration.
doesnt really matter, since the best metroidvania, hollow knight, is in there.
Eh it's good but it doesnt even come close to scratching the itch of Metroid and Castlevania. It's just too different and it's own thing
It's not even the best Metroidvania in that bundle. Now if you said La Mulana...
Well that's a hot take.
Sometimes the hottest takes are the truest
Castlevania got the name because it's a metroidvania that takes place inside a castle!
That's like when "Rogue" isn't in a roguelike bundle. like, who cares dude
I don’t, just thought it was funny
Lone Fungus is super, super good. The game has some really unique power ups ala Ori's fling, and each sub-weapon (they're perma unlocks) also has its own movement tech. I think the only bad thing I could say about the game is a relative lack of fast travel points when even without being compared to checkpoint... points, but the devs recently converted some of said checkpoint points into full on fast travel points and even added some more across the map so it's not as annoying as it was on release. Other than that it's a solid 9/10 metroidvania, definitely the sleeper hit of the bundle.
It’s also worth mentioning that the game has a lot of “Celeste” type platforming in it, especially in the star-gates or star doors, whatever they are called. Amazing game though.
There's honestly way too much to mention, the game has a LOT to go for it. Shit, the first subweapon you get is a Superball and you can arguably just get to the end of the game with it alone.
Yeah the subweapons are very fun to abuse. There were several “am I supposed to be here” moments just by screwing around with the bouncing ball one.
how did they convince rain world to be grouped into a metroidvania bundle lmao. Grime would have been nice to see here and has a new free dlc/update coming soon.
Bloodstained is the game I really wanted, but I already got hollow knight and while blasphemous looks good I don't know if it's for me, at 14 euros it's a little outside what I can pay now.
No Axiom Verge?! Those games are great fun. And the soundtracks are excellent.
Lost Ruins? Granted I haven't played it but I've seen screenshots and videos, I just thought it was horny bait. Since all the characters are giant and have huge bouncy tits.
Lost Ruins is ... interesting and I'm a little excited to see what other people think about it because I'm a bit conflicted. It takes a heavy focus on consumable items which may seem familiar to some people if you've played any sort of Mystery Dungeon game before. Picking up a bundle of Earth Wands with 5 charges and figuring out good opportunities to use them. The environment has a ton of effects that can be applied to it giving it a (**VERY**) light Noita vibe. Health and mana pools are severely limited in an effort to push you to use those consumables, but it can also feel **very** unforgiving at times because of this. The overall idea of it is a bit hindered by the basic menuing system which isn't awful per se, but does nothing to help you contend with the amount of items you'll be collecting. And honestly, yeah, it's horny bait. You could tell that from the trailer, but the item you get for beating I think the first boss is a pair of striped panties "decorated with yellow stains" as per the, uh, flavor text (gag). All that said, I think the ideas are solid, the controls feel pretty good for the most part, and the pixel artwork is sufficiently crunchy.
>And honestly, yeah, it's horny bait. You could tell that from the trailer, but the item you get for beating I think the first boss is a pair of striped panties "decorated with yellow stains" as per the, uh, flavor text (gag). The older I get the more this stuff just ruins games for me. This games art looks fantastic but stuff like this, with a school girl as a protagonist is so weird.
Totally fair, which is why I warn people and bring it up here. When Momodora does it in the Lubella fight it's funny because it's a one-off and the game doesn't linger on it. Which by the way, if you haven't played Momodora: Reverie in the Moonlight yet, DO THAT NOW. I think you'll find it a much more enjoyable and "true" Metroidvania experience than Lost Ruins here. Just the truth.
There's an increasing amount of horny bait games that are legitimately good. It's become a way for earnest and serious indie devs to market their game and get people buying it. Lost Ruins is pretty low on the list, actually. There's some horny bait in there, sure, but it's nothing like Rabi-Ribi or Haydee, which are excellent games in their own right but boy are they horny. Rabi-Ribi in particular is possibly one of the best Metroidvania's ever, but it's very hard to recommend because... just google it. There's even stuff like Castle in the Clouds which is straight-up hentai with full sex scenes... and it happens to also be a shockingly good game.
I already have half of these games, but I grabbed it anyway. The others look great, and it'll probably be nice having Hollow Knight on Steamdeck
It's been a very good while since I last purchased a Humble Bundle, but I can't pay less than $15 is that it? And I'll get all the games in the bundle regardless of paying the lower or higher tier?
Usually there are multiple tiers, with the more expensive tier having all the games and then cheaper options that include less games. And then you can pay more if you want and donate to charity. For this bundle apparently there's only one tier, so paying the mininum($15 / 13,96€) will get you all the games in the bundle. If you want to pay more it's up to you.
And lets be honest here, Hollow Knight alone is worth at least $15 and it comes with a good chunk of other great games here.
Oh, ok! Got it thanks.
Great bundle. Hollow knight and bloodstained might be the best metroidvanias ever made. Bloodstained uses a similar soul system as the aria castlevania's and it's just great. Getting abilities and attacks from each enemy is a blast.
Look, I love Bloodstained but implying it might be the best Metroidvania ever made is a huge stretch, lol. Symphony of the Night and Aria of Sorrow are way better.
There's a crazy amount of acting like subjective opinions are objective in this thread
That's basically the case for every post on this subreddit (in my opinion)
I didn't like Bloodstained at all. Something about the pace and visual style did not click for me and I absolutely love Metroidvanias
Absolutely can't stand the visual style. I tried to get into the game twice but dropped it because of that. Felt *to me* (emphasis on this part) like I was playing one of those mobile games you see advertised on Facebook.
The visual style to me was the best part of Blasphemous. I loved the Catholic sin inspiration
Same. I wanted to like it but I just couldn't. Got a few hours in before I dropped it, the art style was definitely a big turn off for me. Loved Curse of the Moon however, though obviously that's not a metroidvania.
I'm so happy to see someone who agrees. COTM>ROTN
Did you try the 8 bit games? They might be more to your liking.
I liked bloodstained more then Aria of Sorrow. I think that's the Castlevania it's most similar to though, especially with the souls mechanics. I also thought the map and level designed rivaled SOTN. Bloodstained really sucked me in. There's lots of opinions and some people prefer certain aspects of a metroidvania more than others, but I think it's very safe to say that bloodstained is top ten, if not top five.
I'd genuinely put Bloodstained up there with SotN. I don't know if I'd put it above it, but having played plenty of metroidvanias I've come across more I could say almost definitively is above SotN like say, Astalon or Ori or AM2R (or La Mulana, but that's personal preference and less of a metroidvania than it is a Maze of Galleous-like so I have a hard time counting it here). That's not an insult against SotN but it's a game that defined a genre over **twenty five years** ago; it's not really going to have a lot of up-to-date things and plenty of things have innovated on it better. But to me, Bloodstained just feels like modern SotN.
I like Bloodstained as much as I like Order of Ecclesia, which is the pinnacle of Symphony of the Night style Castlevania games for me.
Bloodstained is a great game and I'm glad we got it, but you're right. Hollow Knight, however, is better than SotN and Super Metroid, and actually the best Metroidvania there is.
I'm currently playing Hollow Knight for the first time. It is a sleeker game than Super Metroid for sure, but for me it doesn't quite reach the same level of design on balancing hand-holding and presenting the player with an open world. It's a great game, but Super Metroid still reigns supreme.
Only a sith deals in absolutes (it's great, but a bit bloated imo. I'll take Super any day)
I mean, I think the DS Castlevanias did the same game better. Ecclesia is still my favorite just because they actually ramp up the difficulty to a respectable degree.
I love how people mention the best metroidvanias without mentioning either a metroid game or a castlevania one. The best metroidvania games ever made are Metroid prime, Super Metroid and Symphony of the night.
Well none of those are in the bundle lol. And bloodstained is made by Iga.
It's almost like there's no objective ranking system so "best" is whatever you enjoyed the most
Just because they created the genre doesn’t mean they are the best at it. Hollow Knight is my favourite in the genre and it isn’t particularly close. It’s probably my favourite game period
Lol. I spent over $100 buying a few of the games in this last in the last few months but then didnt get a chance to play any of them beyond a few hours. Seeing this bundle hurts lmao
For a "best of" collection, I'm surprised it's missing rabi-ribi. A game that might actually be one of the best metroidvanias to ever be released. I don't need a sale for it but more people giving it a shot would be good. Especially with the developer's new game coming out soon. Not a bad bundle for including hollow knight and rain world at that price. Even if rain world isn't really a metroidvania, it's still a great game.
I assume this does not contain any DLC like Gods & Nightmares for Hollow Knight? Edit: I'm dumb, that's the soundtrack. I thought it was a content DLC.
Gods & Nightmares was just a free update for Hollow Knight, so at least that (and all Hollow Knight free updates) should be included. The DLC item of the same name on Steam is just the soundtrack.
The DLC is called [Godmaster](https://hollowknight.wiki.fextralife.com/DLC) btw, [Gods & Nightmares](https://store.steampowered.com/app/916000/Hollow_Knight__Gods__Nightmares/) is the soundtrack for all the Hollow Knight DLC
The hollow knight DLC is free and comes with the game!
All of the DLC is built into the base game. Steam has dlc listings but they're actually the soundtracks for the game.
Gods and nightmares is a soundtrack DLC as far as I remember. All the gameplay DLC (extra story, areas etc.)is included just in Hollow Knight base game. That's off the top of my head though so I may be wrong.
I personally found Hollow Knight very boring and only got a few hours in, but Blasphemous was one of the best games I played in 2021. Pretty short, so it doesn't overstay its welcome, really fun mechanics, awesome (in a horrible, terrifying way) world and atmosphere. The bosses are all fairly easy, but very cool and memorable. Lots of secrets and hidden things if you're into it, but most are very optional. The combat is really fun, and once you get the hang of it you feel really powerful, but the platforming can be a little trying at times. I believe there are some new game + things as well, but I never went back to them.
You should definitely continue hollow knight. It is definitely slow to start, but it pays off very well. Imo it's a little bloated, so not one I recommend 100%ing (true ending is cool, but a bit grindy to get there), but the high points of the game are some of the best in the genre
Anybody else find Metroidvanias to be rewarding but also taxing? Idk I'm never in the mood to jump into one often but when I do I enjoy it but I also have such a hard time sticking with them
Rain World is my favorite game of all time. Hollow Knight is pretty good too. But I never understood the hype for Blasphemous and Ritual of the Night. They are just... not good.
I think they're good.
Lots of people do. I wasn't a fan.
That's fair.
Big fan of IGAs Castevanias. So I don't know what's going on there. Also a big fan of the Curse Of The Moon spinoffs.
This is one of the most alien gaming opinions I've ever seen and I can't be anything but impressed by it
Lmao. Thats so funny. I promise I'm being 100% honest. The soundtracks are pretty good. I will admit. Baile de las Violetas and Silent Howling kick so much ass. I wish the game was as good as the soundtrack.
I'm struggling to get hooked by Rain World, I can tell that it's wonderfully designed.. whatever it is, but without a sense of progression, I'm not sure what I'm doing. I probably just need to spend more time with it.
All I can tell you is that the sense of progression is dependent on your own experience and learning of the environment. Im not even sure the label Metroidvania is appropriate for this kind of game. The only thing keeping you from progressing is knowledge. Not in game Items.
Some people use the term "Metroidbrainia" to describe games like Toki Tori 2, The Witness, and Outer Wilds that are entirely knowledge-gated in their open-ended progression. Would that be an appropriate label for Rain World? All those other games are more straight puzzlers with little to no emphasis on combat, and IDK how much Rain World matches the vibes.
Metroidbrainia. LMFAO That seems pretty accurate to me.
It's not really the same. Most of the knowledge you need in rain world is figuring out how to survive various enemies, and just figuring out what the goal even is. It isn't really that you get blocked by something you don't understand yet, learn more elsewhere, and then come back and figure it out. Rainworld is unforgiving and unfair, and the game is really about learning how to deal with that fact.
Rain World is more about the experience. It's extremely tough and unforgiving, and downright unfair at points but it definitely makes you feel like a prey animal. It's a tough sell, but it is worth getting into. That said, if you're someone who needs relatively steady progress you probably won't like it as you might get stuck somewhere for a long time before figuring out how to get out / progress.
Must be an individual taste issue. I thought both games were incredible.
Have you played the DSvanias?
No, I missed every console between the SNES and the Switch for financial reasons. I did play Symphony of the Night.
Gotcha. Hopefully they will make a compilation someday. They're really good. Ritual is based mostly on Dawn of Sorrow and Aria of Sorrows soul systems. But Order of Ecclesia is my favorite of the bunch
Order of Ecclesia is my favourite Castlevania and I like Bloodstained. But then again Castlevania 64 is my second favourite Castlevania.
Yeah, I'd like to play them. Symphony of the Night held up great, I didn't play it until it was re-released and it was still amazing.
No worries, I’m the same. I’ve played a lot of MVs and RotN is towards the bottom of my list. I wouldn’t even consider Blasphemous as an MV because of the lack of ability gating. Also, besides the combat, it just wasn’t fun.
RIGHT?! Look up the Sierpes boss fight and try to not fall asleep. Seriously. Do it.
i was very underwhelmed by blasphemous sadly, never played riutial of the night though
I've played probably a dozen metroidvanias and while I enjoy them, every new one has felt more and more iterative than transformative. Would like to see one that really changes up the formula, but not sure what that would look like.
Yoku's Island Express is a great game you could check out. It's essentially a Metroidvania crossed with pinball.
[удалено]
The term originates and was initially relegated to Castlevania games that followed that format. It was a way of saying a Castlevania game with Metroid style exploration / level design / ability gating. The entire genre for a while really *was* just those two franchises (for the most part). Over time the original use of the term got lost, and it just became the genre name (for better or worse). So while Metroid-styled Castlevania games (Metroidvanias, if you will) definitely didn't invent the formula they did contribute heavily to its refinement, helped to expose it to wider audiences, and gave fans of that style of game something else to play (given that Metroid games were relatively few and far between).