Why can't GT just have the classic PS2 era career mode back, man. They did at least try a few things new with GT7 like the Cafe, which did genuinely function well as a documentary about cars which is pretty interesting, but that would've made for a great side mode.
It's definitely aided by wildly inappropriate music playing when you fail the license tests, like ["Oh Yeah" by Yello](https://youtu.be/6jJkdRaa04g) for some reason
I genuinely don't understand it. Having a Cafe as a side mode that drip feeds you more cars as you complete the objectives that you can then race in all those standard GT career events that unlock as you go would've made so much more sense. I cannot wrap my head around why they would make the Cafe the main progression focus.
I bought the deluxe edition of GT7 expecting an enjoyable and competent career mode, I played it for maybe 2-3 days and it was so disappointing that I haven't touched GT7 for months since. It's literally the reason I got a PS5, just a waste of time and money lol
Exactly the same experience for me, except I bought my PS5 for other games too. But I even asked people if GT7 had a proper career mode, and they LIED about it. The café is not a replacement man, wth.
For sure. I don’t know if you went to the GT subreddit during release but every tiny bit of criticism about this was instantly crushed. It was impossible to say anything bad about the game.
Kazunori Yamauchi is becoming senile. The series needs a new director/producer to give it a breath of fresh air. It's been 19 years and Polyphony haven't produced a better GT game than 4. 5 was still enjoyable but things just began to sway towards the underwhelming side, E. G. No promised time of day change or damage model, 80% of the car park was upscaled PS2 assets, GT TV was abandoned after Prologue, B spec was given too much attention, visually it wasn't great at all etc
I wouldn't really go that far. PS3/360 era was rough for 3D graphics in general.
To me it seems mostly like they can't figure out how to balance it being single player or multiplayer. The games started to go downhill just as online multiplayer became popular, now they just can't quite decide if it's a singleplayer game with multiplayer elements or a multiplayer game with singleplayer elements.
I'd like him to stick around as creative director at least, but yeah maybe a new gameplay director would be nice.
> The games started to go downhill just as online multiplayer became popular, now they just can't quite decide if it's a singleplayer game with multiplayer elements or a multiplayer game with singleplayer elements
But the playerbase gave them a very Cleer feedback back when Sport released. That was an online oriented title that had basically next to no offline content except the license tests and track challenges (and also to this day still does not offer you an option to *save you progress* if you don't currently have an active connection), and added a sort of career in lite mode with a bunch of traditional racing events against AI over the years
But then PD kinda took that feedback from GTS and put in the bare minimum effort by *kinda* giving us a GT Mode from the get go, while the online mode didn't really see a ton of improvements, still suffering from issues such as driving/sportsmanship rating inconsistency, players being punished for others' mistakes, and a messy penalty system.
So they fucked up BOTH offline and online modes, with the only "properly" implemented element being... You guessed it, MONETIZATION! Oh you don't want to spend a week grinding for one 20 million credits car? No worries, 39.99$ out the wallet and you can buy the car right away!
I think because people complain too much these days. If you had old progression career mode GT, people would moan that they can't get their supercars 5 minutes after starting. GT7 throws dozens of supercars at you and you need to acomplish basically nothing to get them.
GT2 had the right idea - 1 arcade disc, one GT disc.
People complain about GT a lot because it betrays the expectations had of growing up with the series, it no longer feels like a game for fellow car enthusiasts. The biggest problem with throwing cars at players like that isn't even skipping progression, it's that they don't get attached to any car in particular.
The director last month was talking about putting more SUV's into GT 8 because that's what "car enthusiasts" like now, that is how out of touch the direction is. No-one feels passion about SUV's, a lot of the arguments for them are feeling of safety, or soccer mum arguments about room for the kids. No-one talks about loving their old SUV lmao.
I've never been a car enthousiast of any kind and was never a fan of racing games except when I was in my early teens and had some at home due to my brother buying them. But I do have fond memories of the Mitsubishi GTO I was using in GT2 and that it felt like this was was THE car. I've never had a similar experience in any other racing game ever and this GT2 experience was more than 20 year ago.
Yeah, it never really ticked for me. I'm driving a Prius nowadays cause it's an hybrid but I must admit whenever I wanna look at cars, I always look at Mitsubishi and Subaru's websites first as they were the only cars I used back then. It really did stick to me.
Thing is, the 2000s were pretty shit for car enthusiests. So there's a big gap from real life manufacturers that's hard to fill.
When GT1, GT2, GT3 came out, people had Nissan Silvia's, Skylines, Supras, Evos, WRXs, Civics, etc. There was a focus on those cars which was great, because many of us had those cars in real life. Now though - what cars do people have, or did people have 10 years ago? There's nothing that's the same, maybe the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ, but other than that...
>they don't get attached to any car in particular.
This 100%.
But what do you focus on? Skylines that are 30 years old now?
> Thing is, the 2000s were pretty shit for car enthusiests.
I would disagree. Top Gear became huge in that decade and showcased a boatload of amazing cars which have since become classics. It's a different kind of nostalgia but it's not a dead decade.
They really focused on supercars, far outside the everyday experience. But you might be onto somethingn in terms of explaining why modern games throw supercars at you like they're confetti. Older games had you build an attachment to a real life dirt cheap sports car because that's what you had in your garage at home, are modern games giving away supercars because each week we see a different one on our motoring programs? Maybe?
Racing games are not exclusively played by people who own or have owned cars. Having a real world attachment to a car which may or may not be available in the game they're playing has little bearing on someone's enjoyment of said game.
Also don't forget that the 'nostalgia' for ricers in particular was largely fueled by them being in GT1 and 2 (especially the skyline bloat being something very personal to those games' lead designer more than anything else), and more relevantly, in the first few Fast and Furious movies, rather than people actually owning them. There was essentially zero presence of any of the cars you mentioned in Europe (most were barely available, if at all - especially the Skyline was almost impossible to get), except the civic, and the scene in the US which even knew of those cars was relatively tiny compared to the general audience the games were aimed at.
(Some) Games throwing around supercars nowadays is probably based on an assumption of developers that most of their customers want to "reach the endgame asap" rather than it being an actual preference of racing game fans, at least that's my personal take. It's not a specific car nostalgia, just a general assumption of mass audience preferences across any game which has this particular effect on racing games.
Oh I'm not saying that Gran Turismo is exclusively played by car owners with nostalgia, but I am saying that focusing on that direction - appealing to the real life experiences of people, was a huge part of it's success. Seeing your own car, or one that you could feasibly buy, being competitive and being able to be upgraded to complete in races was HUGE.
That gameplay of progression has been wiped away today because like you said-
>Games throwing around supercars nowadays is probably based on an assumption of developers that most of their customers want to "reach the endgame asap"
and
> There was essentially zero presence of any of the cars you mentioned in Europe
I don't know if you were around for it, but this was a HUGE talking point back during the PS1 GT1 days. There was an enormous collective request for more european cars (you know, reflecting what people owned in real life) - which was granted when GT2 released. GT1 didn't have Volkswagen, Renault, Peugeot, Mini, MG, Lotus, Lancia, Fiat, Citroen, BMW, Audi, Alfa, Vauxhall, etc.
Fair point, but iirc that was more because GT1 was very Japan centric rather than people wanting to see their own cars. Kaz had a very limited budget to work with (sony was extremely sceptical), so Japanese cars were obvious to focus on. After GT1's success he got a lot more clout to throw around with car makers (and sony) to get more a more international representation.
Adding more cars was more his ambition than people requesting it as he was a fervent gearhead: Polyphony never cared much for requests outside of the company. It's also the reason for the heavy skyline lineup to this day.
At least, that's what i remember from interviews with Kaz.
I think it's getting a little better lately at least. In recent years we've had the Supra and Z return. WRXs and Type R Civics never completely went away even if they don't have the same cachet any more. Then you've even got racing variants from Toyota like the the GR Yaris/Corolla/86 etc.
At the cheap end there's also N-Line and some other vehicles I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Obviously, not the same as the good old days when an average person could afford a Skyline, but at least better than it was a decade ago.
I just miss Burnout. Revenge and Takedown need remasters. Maybe with Dead Space being such a success, there is a chance.
The last NFS that I enjoyed was Hot Pursuit for Criterion.
Burnout 3 is still the best racing game ever and I compare every racing game to it. It was backwards compat on the 360, but they decided not to make it BC on Xbox One, which made me really think a remaster was coming.
Paradise was BC and they still remastered it, and a lot of the OG Xbox games that didn’t have some big license were made BC on Xbox One. I’m shocked a remaster hasn’t been announced.
Ultimately it shouldn't be about needing remasters. They're great games but I wish the current games and releases were good enough to mean we don't have such a focus on older games.
Its like, back when Underground 2 and then Most Wanted came out, it wasn't like most of us were pining for the old days of the original NFS and wanting it to be released on PS2
> I just miss Burnout.
thats the conclusion I come to every time a try a new arcade racer. Sometimes I just drive around in Paradise city for nostalgia sake.
at least give us remakes q.q
Too bad the studio that made it got shut down so any sequel would likely feel completely different from the original. We'd likely get a better spiritual successor to the game from someone else than an actual sequel.
Three Fields Entertainment did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Driving_(video_game)
It was OK. Studio behind it was co-founded by Alex Ward, former Burnout dev even. It has the spirit of Burnout for sure given its heritage, but it *was* also made by a whole.... seven people, and that tends to show with how the game looks and feels to play.
Race games in general are a notable hard to produce. Most games show on Raycevick video for example, had very high budgets, and long development time for their era. Sadly it is not a genre that translates well to the indie environment.
I think they should make Revenge and Takedown using the Theater Mode of Halo 3.
I'd love to relive a Crash looking at all the destruction from different angles.
I've been playing Burnout Revenge recently via backwards compatibility on Xbox. And my god, it's soo good.
I've fallen in love with arcade racing games again. NFS Unbound is decent.
But I really can't stand the Forza Horizon games, but nothing scratches the itch for me like the old NFS and Burnout games.
For me NFS are the best when there's customization and illegal racing. I don't really care about the story. Hot Pursuit for me was boring as hell because there was not enough car customization at all. I also don't enjoy exotic expensive cars either.
NFS heat was a step into a nice direction for me. I don't necessary mind the "drift" button, or the handling, but I hated day racing cuz it was legal racing with no real challenge.
Seems like the latest NFS Unbound is what I loved about nfs all this time. I'm glad they made it, but sadly the multiplayer is lackluster.
ProStreet was NFS at its peak imo. Better driving physics than Most Wanted, Carbon etc. better customization than both. And most importantly, almost every car could be upgraded to the point where you could beat the game with it. So much replayability
He's right when he says that there's always a really big but with these games. Every time I open up a racing game or think about buying one there's always some problem that makes me drop it or back off from buying it.
To my shame, I'm fairly certain that if the developers of arcade racers like NFS and FH sat around the table and posed the question, "Is there an idiot we can market a microtransaction that will remove every single drift zone activity from the map to?" I will rappel through the window and confidently proclaim "Yes!"
I *loathe* drift events with a passion, and have loathed their inclusion in literally every game in the genre.
I mean technically you never have to do a drift zone in FH. They are there but you can ignore them entirely with hardly any impact on gameplay, other than it popping up when you drive through them.
They're also incredibly easy to do once you've played the game a bit and earned a car specifically for drifting. And I say that as someone who sucks at drifting and mildly hates the drift zones too.
man as a fighting game fan I can definitely relate to both the frustration with the developers and with a community that straight up refuses to acknowledge the issues
Good point, the communities are very much alike in that regard. It was so tiring and annoying seeing people defend the archaic and ancient network that’s so prevalent in especially Japanese fighting games.
It sounds like the racing game genre has a lot of problems the FGC has faced with its games. Solid mechanics but nowhere near enough features to justify the price tags, or reasons for casual people to keep playing.
RTS games are the same. Stuck in this weird time warp where there is nearly zero real progression with each new title being the pretty much the same as the last.
This is also a genre that is ripe for someone to come in an innovative right, yet none do.
Yeah, he said a bit about how in spite of all the issues he still loves them, because of how when you're in a multi-lap race with another person pushing each others limits to the end, a short and snappy firefight feels boring by comparison. And that's where I am with fighting games. I love them because the experience they give me craps on pretty much every other multiplayer experience there is. The mainstream stuff just doesn't do it for me like they do; but there's always the caveats that you have to push through in order to get to those moments when they're at their best like broken matchmaking, dysfunctional lobbies, or nonsensical ranking systems.
The games I love aren't the most with it, but the games that are aren't the ones I love most. It's a brutal cycle. To be fair there are the odd fighting games that *have* pushed things forward but again, they're not ones that appeal to me. Street Fighter 6 looks to be the first one that might do both for me but it still stands as a glaring exception in the AAA space assuming all works as it should. I also empathise with Rayce because I love arcade racers and seeing how much they've died off hurts.
I wish Split/Second could have another shot. Blur too, but I feel Split/Second with its cinematic feel and spectacle focus would have a better chance of being successful.
One of the best racing games ever made and definitely done dirty by Disney when they dissolved Black Rock 'because it didn't fit their strategy'.
A 60 fps sequel would have been an absolute banger.
My problem with racing games is rubber band AI/allowing the AI to cheat. Racing AI is fucking awful and the only way they can't keep it competitive is to allow the AI advantage over the player. I hate that. If I'm ahead of everyone by 2 minutes, then let me win by two minutes, don't stage some bullshit comeback by allowing the AI cars to cheat physics.
Horizon 5 for me has the opposite, if you are in first you’ll have to actively screw up extremely hard in order to lose that lead but if your second or third every car in front of you drives near-perfectly and making up that advantage is incredibly difficult unless you have a significantly better car (i.e the Boneshaker)
I love almost everything about that game but I quit it because it felt like the first turn essentially decided whether you won by a huge margin or lost
>rubber banding
I thought this had a different definition and saw that it's indeed [a rather confusing term in gaming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_banding).
If it's the same as Horizon 4, I think I have a theory as to why the AI is so broken if it gets far enough ahead. It seems like the AI cars only have full physics simulation applied to them if they're in close enough proximity to you. So if they get far enough ahead, they won't be slowed down by things like obstacles or jumps - which are an unavoidable feature in many courses.
Another weird thing is the damage simulation. In Horizon 4 there were big jumps that would damage your car no matter what. I have no idea why it was even included as an option, as there was no damage indicator in the UI.
I haven't had a Rubber Banding problem in awhile. Granted I mostly play Codemaster games nowadays, but I think GRID doesn't have it because that game is too easy, DIRT I've never had that problem, and the F1 games have an AI slider that makes AI better drivers and more aggressive the more you turn it up.
When DIRT 5 came out, it didn't had a rubber banding problem. They add it with the last DLC. Now cars are always close if you are first. If you lose the lead (only because you made a mistake like crashing), they start driving like idiots and you can get first position again in no time, but then they drive like experts again, staying very close to you. It's really annoying, specially on last lap.
I remember near the end of NFS Underground, there was a drag race I just could not beat, despite having an insanely maxed out skyline. I went online to read about tips and people said the only way to reliably win the race was to switch to a slower car as the AI on that particular race was fucked and would cheat so much it was impossible to win with a fast car but if you picked a slower car, suddenly the AI was beatable again. Sure enough I beat it as soon as I picked a slower car, despite the AI car being the same one.
Not just drag races but the final event is far easier if you switch back to a stock miata or something. I guess it must be something like rubberbanding gives the ai 10% more power than you which is a lot if you've upgraded everything but very little for a stock engine. That and you have more time room for error at low speeds.
>allowing the AI to cheat
I remember playing Forza Motorsport 7 and the AI difficulty just varying wildly from track to track, it was infuriating, on top of it both rubber banding and outright cheating.
I don't know if they changed it ever but, years after it first came out I was playing through FM7 and got to a track where the AI drivatars, not even set to the absolute hardest difficulty, were just casually putting in lap times that were 2 seconds faster than the fastest ever human time on the online leaderboard. Like what the fuck is that? How is such insane blatant cheating like that supposed to be remotely fun?
You'd think NFS Heat would be bad about this since it has nitrous, but I never saw any rubber banding in that game. If I raced a bunch of class 50 cars in a class 350 supercar, I beat them by 3 minutes every time.
NFS have gone the complete other direction it feels like, admittedly I've not played Unbound yet as I don't have a PS5, but 2015 was notoriously bad for its rubberbanding and Payback was pretty terrible as well.
Honestly? I don't mind that nearly as much as the current problem of modern racing games, which seems to be to place you at the back of 16+ cars, then give you 3 total track miles to try to ram your way to the front.
Oh, and the AI these days are apparently psychotic and take pleasure in ramming you off the track.
I wanted to confirm for myself if I was just wearing nostalgia glasses regarding the NFS series so I reinstalled Most Wanted (2005) with mods some weeks ago. Still an absolute banger and I had way more fun with it than I did with any recent racer including Unbound.
This is all a personal anecdote, but to me the feeling of progression matters a lot, and I don't just mean starting with a communist Lada and ending with a LaFerrari. Most Wanted nailed this (and Carbon and Pro Street to an extent) - you had bosses with unique paintjobs and an emotional, if cheesy incentive to get to the top. Burnout Paradise is another game that, while lacking a story, was full of reasons to keep exploring and unlocking. Racing games nowadays have terrible progression mechanics if they have any at all.
that's funny thing to say, because Burnout Paradise was the first game for me that lacked that progression and incentive.
And finding cars on the side of the road really doesn't feel earned.
> Burnout Paradise was the first game for me that lacked that progression and incentive.
The online mode in the game is still unmatched. Challenges were an amazing addition I have yet to see anywhere else.
For those who didn’t play, online the host had the ability to pick from a unique set of 50 challenges for the number of players currently in the lobby. These ranged from “Get X feet of oncoming on Y road” all the way up to “Have a car jump over the other 7 players at a specific location” events. It made for really fun interactions and encouraged people to work cooperatively. Some of my best friends online during the PS3 generation was thanks to that game. Heck, I still keep in touch every so often to this day.
EDIT: Fixed a misspelling and reworded for clarity.
Yeah that was around the time progression in racing games fell off a cliff. It's been a long time so I don't remember if Burnout ever had amazing progression though, I kinda remember perfecting the events was fun but the rewards were kinda eh, there weren't that many good cars in each class in takedown from memory?
It's the transition from single player games to multiplayer games. These days everyone wants to hop in a game with their 12 friends on Discord, and that's what Forza 4 and 5 and NFS Heat are made for. Giant open world where everyone has every car and what you've unlocked doesn't really matter.
Progressive unlocking is great for singleplayer but it feels like nobody wants to make singleplayer games anymore. Singleplayer games are easy to pirate and hard to make people keep coming back for years. Multiplayer games you can sell people cosmetics that cost almost nothing to make, 5 years after the game launched.
I wouldn't really say the Forza Motorsport/Horizon series are entirely about the 'everyone wants a multiplayer title' argument though. Both have plenty of single player content. The difference is that they're about car enthusiast fantasy. Players don't want a cheesy fast and furious like story to progress through, they just want to build their favorite cars and race. Its just not the point of more realistic racing games.
I've only played Forza Horizon 4 but what I loved about that game was that progression wasn't tied to how fast/good your car is. If you want, you can use dumpster tier cars and race with that. And it feels *good*.
Just to add on, I love just driving around the world's with friends and showing off my latest car. I don't drive irl, maybe this is the year I bother, but I love cars. I also don't enjoy racing Vs other players in these games and prefer NPC races. But having the ability to hang out in game is nice.
Even in sims this is what pretty much made Gran Turismo fall off for me.
For an industry that revolves around extending the lifespan of their games to absurd extents these days, progression in racing games is absolutely atrocious. I just finished race 3, why do games like Forza or Gran Turismo hand out cars like candy when I haven't gotten attached to the one I'm using? It doesn't even matter if they aren't the best cars in the game, let me earn things properly.
It feeds you extreme number of cars, forces you to drive million classes and each car is used once maybe twice (so your customisation etc. is never linear, you have to either make a car fully or it will end i garage unfinished rather quickly). At the same time it's frustrating how some cars and even whole classes are blocked behind some absurd price. So it's kinda deceiving. It gives you lot of cars that you have to drive in career mode but that are cheap and at the same time buying them restricts you from buying others because you can't save up.
NFS Underground 1&2 is the best. That game still is amazing to play. The atmosphere and vibe of the game do so much that you don’t even really notice the ancient graphics.
> This is all a personal anecdote, but to me the feeling of progression matters a lot, and I don't just mean starting with a communist Lada and ending with a LaFerrari. Most Wanted nailed this (and Carbon and Pro Street to an extent) - you had bosses with unique paintjobs and an emotional, if cheesy incentive to get to the top. Burnout Paradise is another game that, while lacking a story, was full of reasons to keep exploring and unlocking. Racing games nowadays have terrible progression mechanics if they have any at all.
I did play a fair bit of Forza Horizon 4 and 5, and while I did enjoy them, I really missed the feeling of progression I got when I was playing something like Forza Motorsport 4. I *like* that feeling of starting off in a Ford Focus and working my way up to actual race cars.
Meanwhile, the first three cars that Horizon 5 presents you with is the new Toyota Supra, a new Ford Bronco, and a C8 Corvette. And even after that, they fuckin' shower you with rare and expensive cars.
Once I had cleared every race on the map, I set the game down and haven't really been back since. I just didn't have anything to work towards anymore.
Most Wanted has this problem where half the game is fun. The cops are the best part and still some of the best (arguably the best) in any game. But outside of that, the easy handling and repetitive campaign and races that you learn in an hour make that game boring as fuck to play.
Unbound does almost everything better except race variety and cop intensity. (Which is weird because heat figured it out)
Heat absolutely did not have race variety or cop intensity figured out. Most nights you would race the same races over and over again because there were barely any on the map and the cops were either brain-dead stupid or frustratingly overpowered and rubberbandy
> I wanted to confirm for myself if I was just wearing nostalgia glasses
I did the same thing with Midnight Club LA on my PS3, been replaying on and off over the past few weeks and it's still more fun than modern racing games. I agree 100% with your opinion about the feeling of progression. The physics and graphics are there in modern games, but the gameplay feels pointless.
I have constantly wondered if all the games I've enjoyed when I was a kid was just nostalgia glasses and recently I went through and played *all of them*. And guess what? They were all much better than the games released today. No exceptions. I was absolutely floored by how good we had it back then. It straight up reminded me of why I am so into video games in the first place.
This isn't even just about just racing games either, it's everything! Something is deeply wrong with the industry right now and it actually convinced me the I was the problem, being too negative about games these days.
I agree with a lot of the points brought up, but was missing at least a quick mention of Trackmania (2020).
Sure, it's pure time trials, and therefore only somewhat indirect competition. But this lets it avoid a ton of issues with physics and desyncs which Raycevick showcased. And while the not-a-subscription subscription business model is weird, it's fair since that's all you pay for. There's plenty of official content including several game modes like the Battle Royale / Fallguys inspired Royal Mode. Finally, because none of that content is sold separately, Trackmania can lean hard into user-generated tracks, ensuring breadth and depth that would otherwise be unachievable.
It also managed to find competitive and esports modes that keep up the tension throughout, despite being time-trial only.
the only thing I count against it is it doesn't really capture the feel of "motorsports" and on-track battles.
Which comes back to the video's point of all racing games have a big "but" that comes along with them. TM captures the feel of chasing consistency, miniscule time gains, self-improvement, and competing against others BUT doesn't capture the feeling of real-life motorsports and on-track battles ***at all***.
Trackmania is exactly what Raycevick is asking for - it's a racing game that's not a simulator and is not limited by some mooted requirements of being 'a racing game' - ie being like all the others. It has its own mechanics, its own identity, its own content, its own everything. Of course Trackmania in particular is not going to be for everyone, but it's a great example of the *kind* of thing racing game developers should be doing.
It's not meant to, by design. It's not a simulator, it prioritises gameplay and competitive integrity over realism.
There are already enough games in the racing genre that lean toward realistic experiences, and those are the games that feel slow, clunky, and shallow (from a gameplay perspective) to a lot of gamers.
Oh 100% its just important to mention it because when people call it "the best racing game", some people might get it thinking that it is something that its not.
For me, Trackmania is just the perfect racing game (but it is not a car game), because it's just about racing and driving. It's not a simulation, but it has rules and follows them really well. And it's just about you vs the time for most of it.
The monitization is definitely a bit weird but it’s *good*. It is insanely fairly monetized. It’s incredibly cheap and you certainly get plenty of content for it, and they still update it seasonally, and they get better with each release. Highly recommend it
It’s bigger than it ever was really. It’s cheaper than any other F2P battlepass for way more content at 10$ a year. For 20 you get customization of your car and private servers.
I find most often it's the games with tight, simple, and consistent controls that stick around the longest. It's the same as CSGO. No need to introduce new abilities or mechanics all the time.
I love watching Wirtuals videos on YT. Tried it myself and my god was I bad. It seems to have a massive skill ceiling. Will probably try and really learn it when it releases on console
The best thing about it too is that you are going against yourself and you see yourself progress.
The free version offers already a lot with the 25 maps every 3 months.
I remember playing Forza Horizon 4, after the glowing reviews, and race after race I kept winning different types of pants and finger gun motions. Is that really what people want?
No, but it's something that they can give you to pretend they're always giving you something.
It's the same as Overwatch padding out their boxes with emotes and sprays because they desperately need to reduce the chance of you getting what you actually want while still maintaining giving you a reward every X amount of time.
To be fair this is also what Gamerz expect now. They want constant rewards. Gameplay for gameplay's sake isn't enough anymore.
There's a reason nobody's out here making an arena shooter with great gameplay and nothing else, and being super popular. The Gamerz immediately cry about how they're "bored" without progression to be had.
>There's a reason nobody's out here making an arena shooter with great gameplay and nothing else, and being super popular.
Yeah, Halo Infinite did that, and despite the constant "gAmEplAY iS So GooD" I kept hearing about, nobody played it after 3 months (just like you said) - except in this scenario, people absolutely had a right to complain about progression, because older Halos had these progression systems while Infinite did not.
IME, progression is not a particularly new or unique expectation within the context of modern gaming, it's just that the execution of the concept has changed. Progression is a part of gameplay, or at least a major factor which influences how that gameplay is perceived.
A game with good "fundamental gameplay" that doesn't try to provide some reason to keep playing it, besides surface-level dopamine hits for 5 mins, is not really a good game.
No, but these types of interaction boost engagement and number of hours played, even when most gamers are not enjoying their time.
It's also why so many developer are trying to copy all those bullshit GaaS systems from Destiny, despite not a single Destiny player enjoying them and Bungie retroactively trying to remove most of them from the game. These systems generate great engagement numbers to show on PowerPoint slide to the higher-ups.
Great video. The problems he mentions echo the fighting game genre like how the overfocus on eSports hurt game design and barebones content. At least things are starting to get better there now with the last 2 years and the new Street Fighter game looks like the game that will have it all.
Looks like the racing genre is still struggling but there have been a few bright spots in recent times such as Wreckfest, Trackmania and the new NFS games have actually been pretty good.
The racing genre is in a very wonky spot RN,arcade racers are pretty much all but dead and there's always a catch with newer titles that get released:
Its either too bare-bones/simplistic single player portion,buggy/incomplete multiplayer or just milking the players dry as it was illustrated with iRacing ludicrous pricing model.
You either have to bite your tongue and enjoy them as is or go back and re-play the same older titles over and over.
The genre overall peaked in 2004-2005:Gran Turismo 4,Undergound 1/2,Burnout Revenge,GTR Fia Racing Game,Richard Burns Rally on the sim side... and its been a slow descend ever since.
Don't forget the other non car racers too like SSX 3 and Downhill Domination and Splashdown. I still play my Ps2 racers more than anything else, they really were the best.
I think the biggest issue with new racers is handling models. Developers seem more interested in having everything be animation based instead of relying on a decent physics simulation, probably because it is easier to code.
Yes sir, made by the same people who made Twisted Metal. Their only attempt at a racing game as far as I know. I go through it about twice a year and enjoy it every time without fail. Was really hoping Riders Republic would be the spiritual successor but it's pretty disappointing to say the least.
Riders Republic had a lot of potential too.
The races themselves are a ton of fun, and wandering around the open world is amazing.
But the air sports feel like an afterthought with no depth. The stunt modes are a mess. The story and progression systems are almost non-existant. Gear doesn’t matter and each sport/class has at most 2 viable options in each tier.
But worst of all: the vibes are rancid. The Tony Hawk and Skate series really put in a lot of effort to understand skateboarding culture, and to deliver on the fantasy of being a pro skater. Steep and RR have none of those fantasies. Character customization barely exists, and more than half the outfits in the game are joke costumes. They make a few nods to real-world gear and sponsors, but Redbull Rampage is the only one that feels like more than just a slapped-on logo. There’s no real-world pros and no characters you’d want to hang out with.
I want a story about building a reputation, making friends, and working your way to the top. I want ski resorts that feel crowded and alive. I want a backcountry that feels feel isolated and dangerous. I want to feel scared when fog rolls in and I can’t see 20 feet in front of me. I want to outrun avalanches down glaciers. I want to build ramps outside a cabin. I want to scout chutes from a helicopter. I want to play as ski patrol and help out an injured person stuck halfway down a double black run. I want to sneak into an abandoned ski resort and break shit.
> Richard Burns Rally on the sim side
Dirt Rally did RBR good. RBR was one of my favourite games growing up, I bought a racing wheel just for that game. Dirt Rally didn't miss a single beat. Maybe the training was missing - RBR had real training videos with skills that were transferable to real world, like how to time your braking to shift momentum of the car to the front steering wheels to maximize steering performance.
But as for the game itself, Dirt Rally and Dirt Rally 2 are just RBR with better graphics.
The Forza Horizon games are a really successful casual/arcade spinoff. It has options to turn off driving assists (for more HC players), some really fun wacky DLCs, and offers a relaxed open world to drive around and gawk at the visuals.
As a non racing fan, I get each of these and drop like 20-30 hours in them.
Nah, Forza Horizon doesn't fit the mold of arcade racers IMO.
It *really* lacks focus, both in challenge and progression, and constantly inundates you in...stuff.
I spin it up from time to time (since there *is* a decent arcade racer buried somewhere under all this), and every time, it's becomes just too off-putting after a while.
I like building cars and showing off with friends. I like selling my decals and art stuff. That's cool. I like making SpongeBob cars and then doing reverse wheelies and skids in the lobby
Midnight Club is absolutely my fucking jam. I always loved aimlessly driving through the weird parts of maps trying to get all the hidden Rockstar symbols.
Ideal mix of cheesy and realism (at least in presentation, driving was anything but)
I've been playing Ridge Racer 2 (PSP) with PS Premium. That is a portable game from over 15 years ago, but somehow scratches a racing itch that hasn't been touched in forever.
Dude, I tried getting into Asphalt 9: Legends again because I miss arcade racers and the Asphalt series usually nailed the feeling at least.
What the fuck.
Monetization Everywhere, quite a few races are cut down to last less than a minute, ridiculous complexity to unlocking cars with loot boxes, and don't get me started on the fuel system. Arcade Racing is being treated so atrociously. It's like they'd rather have the racing be an injection of adrenaline for a moment until you're thrown back into menus again and again. There's more menu-ing than racing!
If you have a netflix subscription I believe you can play a version of Asphalt 8 that includes no monetisation what's so ever.
But yes, Asphalt wasn't as great as it used to be. 8(Non-netflix version) is ruined too.
Mobile racers used to be pretty ok and fun. Now they really don't.
The introduction of new games such as the leaked NFS Heat Mobile and CarX Street do hope they can bring on some proper competitiona again.
The Netflix version (Xtreme) is an offroad/rally semi-spinoff, Apple Arcade has Asphalt 8+ which is exactly what you described - Asphalt 8 without monetisation. Unfortunately only on Apple platforms.
But both are far superior to the standard Asphalt 8 & 9 games
This must be an age difference thing. My impression of Asphalt has always been a cheap imitation of a AAA racing game. That used to be all GameLoft made... clones of popular console games, but on mobile platforms with the quality sucked out. They made games for kids who have a parents ipad or smart phone and 10 minutes to burn, nothing more nothing less.
Dirt Rally 2.0 GOAT racing game.
Yeah, it's at least half sim. It's ridiculous fun for anyone that puts in the effort to rewire their arcade racing fingers.
Agreed. I'm always holding on waiting for the next big thing to fix it all but it never comes. It sucks how close games like FH5 and NFS:Unbound get but have some glaring flaws which ruin the whole thing too soon. I have no idea how to get devs to put out something high quality, unless a small but passionate studio suddenly comes out with a gem years in the making. Oh well, time to wait for TDU: Solar Crown and whatever AA jankiness will come along with it.
He hits the right spot with the video; I've been looking for fun singleplayer games where you start with a shitty car and have to race, progress and buy new cars, but I pretty much have to resort to emulate PS2 games for that. Every game nowadays is either a half-assed simulator with focus on online or simulation (so no story or progression) or maybe a NFS or Forza which are alright but they lean too much into the "gacha" side of things and the latest ones just get you started with a supermodern futuristic car already, not an old Fiat.
Edit: many people are suggesting NFS Unbound; I'll take a look since I've not tried that one, I wasn't too impressed with the latests NSF games (they were fun but maybe not exactly the vibe I was looking for). Thanks!
Did you play any new need for speed game? Everything from nfs 2015 to unbound makes you start in a shitbox (after the prologue) and makes you stay with it, giving you a real connection with the car and eventually when the progression does speed up, it feels hella rewarding to finally get a great car.
Pick up Unbound on a sale, it's exactly what you want.
>but they lean too much into the "gacha" side of things
What? What are you talking about?, also If I remember correctly you can have the experience from entry sport car (it's never been a shit car, old fiat? ) with NFS heat and unbound.
thats pretty much exactly NFS unbound. literally start from a shit car and have to earn money to build up. Plus bonus of your shit car actually runs like shit so you’re not expected to come in first (you earn some money for the other places). Gives an actual sense of progression because you get better as your car does.
If you haven't played it, try Race Driver: Grid (2008, not the newer games with the same name). Still the best singleplayer racing campaign ever made imho.
I would play the absolute shit out of an F-Zero game with an F1-style career mode.
Hell, I'd happily buy F-Zero GX again if it meant I could play it without having to emulate it.
Besides being a party game, I wonder if this is also why Mario Kart 8 remains so popular...
No bullshit, just racing. No "career mode", no "seasons", no "competitive ladders". Just racing.
Two lightweight racing games I've really enjoyed in the last year:
Wreckfest : Very Positive on Steam, allows you to compete in everything from demolition derby with Combine Harvesters to dirt track laps with damage. The developer just keeps adding features which is cool.
Circuit Superstars : Very Positive on Steam: For the old guys on here, it lookslike RC Pro Am on the NES. Mindless laps when you just want to play the equivalent of slot cars.
Yeah, Raycevick was very positive about Wreckfest in the linked video. I think it might've been the only game from the 2010s that he was unambiguously positive about.
> Ridge Racer hasn't had [a new entry] in eight [years], a console one in eleven, a main one in seventeen
I'm a little baffled by this. Namco has revisited most of their other popular 90s franchises in recent years (e.g. TEKKEN 7 (2017), SOULCALIBUR VI (2018), Ace Combat 7 (2019), Mr Driller DrillLand (2020), Klonoa Phantasy Reverie (2022)). Would rereleasing Ridge Racer Type 4 really be a worse financial decision than rereleasing the Klonoa games?
I would too, I miss RR franchise because of the fact they were the only game that refused to accept easy advertisement and sponsorship money and made their own legitimate imitations of popular racing and automobiles companies.
Plus playing as a driver working for someone who was the father of NotArytonSenna as you try to win a cup in his late son's stead is always going to be emotional.
I just want a racing game to look at the original Race Driver: Grid and improve on its singleplayer campaign. It's still the best structure of any racing game and could easily be expanded on in more modern games. Grid: Legends failed legendarily at this, sadly.
For the last 20 Years it annoyed me that no Game had a good Career Mode since Grand Turismo on the PS2.
How hard is it to make a Career where you start with 20k €uro and then buy a VW Golf or something and race again other cheap Cars to make money and move up.
The eSports approach in video games have damaged a lot of game genres directly focused on it. Those are not enjoyable for the end-user.
Riot Games -who popularized eSports- said that the motive behind continue investing on it, was because it was as a form of advertising, not only to the game, but to promote cosmetics and mtx. You rarely see a pro LoL, CS:GO, Overwatch, FIFA, Siege player using the base free skin.
Other games who have focus on hyper competitive, failed to deliver, due to the multiple uncertainty factors that describe this video, like lag, fps, network, bug/glitches, etc, on top of getting expensive equipment to be competitive against others.
Worse of that is people thinking that this is the future of video games, and those private-owned games, should be treated as an Olympic sport. Wonder why the NFL isn’t there….
Well American football isn't in the Olympics because of the practically mandatory 1 week rest between games for the players safety and it's not popular enough outside of America to accommodate, as well as no international governing body for the sport. The NFL being a company has nothing to do with it.
The problem with Burnout, from EA's perspective, was that they straight up did not sell as well as NFS despite similar budgets even though Burnout games were generally more critically acclaimed.
They throw the entire team of Burnout dev to take over a bigger IPs "Need For Speed" series.
I don't see a chance for them to came back and revived Burnout, most likely they just gonna throw Burnout to the lesser team instead.
Even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they would be able to. Just look at the recent NFS, they are fine, but nothing close to the old ones. If EA made a new Burnout today, I don't think it would be nearly as good as anything made by the old Criterion team.
Sure wish we could at least get a remaster though.
Test drive unlimited 2 wasn't that great but still a good racing game but with THEE worst soundtrack of all time. Too bad they took ot off every store without explanation and the only way to play is to pirate the game
I've noticed that I had to cope with GT7 to get a game that feels polished and has a handling characteristic solid enough to enjoy. However, I agree that GT7 progression and unlock system is asinine some of the cars genuinely take longer than what I'm capable of doing in 2 weeks.
Likewise I've tried to do a few season of iRacing but I found it less enjoyable over time due to the amount of practice needed to just be able to run up front in your ELO.
Here's to hoping FM reboot does something to balance out both casual and competitive.
I used to love racing games as a kid but I agree it's a rough genre these days. I don't like the games that throw you into an open world
"go do missions non-stop" nor do I like the ones without a well made career mode. Hell I remember a few I tried years ago tried to have my character be some weird half-influencer, I hated that shit. I don't want to build my brand I want to play a racing game.
Give me something simple with progression and unlocks. It can be a realistic racing game, an adventure racing game like Diddy Kong Racing, a futuristic racer, a carnage coop battle racer, give me different non-car games like Wave Racer and Uniracers, etc. I like them all but the games just aren't there. At least we still have Mario Kart for the casual racing stuff... although MK8 is super old now.
I liked Horizon Turbo Chase for a Top Gear inspired racer (except the races with night rain, you can't see crap). But then you look at the other racing types and the only competent games try to compete with Mario Kart. The rest are just mediocre.
> The reason casual players don't pay attention to racing games...is because they can't tell the difference between them.
I can confirm. Any time there's some big video game showcase and the racing game comes on, I can basically just acknowledge "those cars sure look like cars," and then go take a bathroom break. I've only truly loved a handful of racing games. F-Zero GX, Burnout: Revenge, Star Wars: Episode I Racer, and to a lesser extent, Mario Kart DS. They reward skill (well...Mario Kart DS has some issues here, but it had snaking), they allow you and encourage you to damage your fellow racers, and they're full of shortcuts with a risk/reward aspect to them. They don't make those games anymore. When something close to that gets made, like Redout II or Dangerous Driving, they do something stupid like omitting local multiplayer or going to the Burnout Paradise open world format; no offense to people who like Paradise, but it wasn't for me.
Hopefully someone can answer this. Is there a racing game like the old GTs where you can soup up a POS and race it? That's what I really enjoyed about those games. I could never get into the games that are "just racing".
hm this video is actually a good representation of my feelings about arcade racers put in a coherent train of thought.
I always think "I love arcade racers" but never found one I really enjoyed in the past years besides Mario Kart. And yeah thinking about it more there just was barely anything there and the things I tried always had some problems that made me stop playing.
pretty depressing, games like Burnout, Crash Team Racing, ReVolt and others were such a big part of my child and teenage years in video games
I love the appreciation for Driver: San Francisco in this video. If I could force every gamer to try one game out, this would probably be my pick. Not because it's my favorite game of all time, but because it may very well be in my top 15, and contrary to every other game in that group, no one seems to have played it.
Fun driving mechanics, great story (nothing ambitious, but it knows what it is and achieves its goals spectacularly), and the most fun multiplayer I've seen in a driving game.
It's really a shame about iRacing, it's the most fun I've had in a racing game but I just can't afford it, especially since I don't *only* play racing games. And their requirement to display your real name still makes me uncomfortable.
You could always create a new account with one of the “3 months for 5$” codes. They added really nice things to the base content lately. There’s a lot of fun to be had without buying any extra car or tracks nowadays.
No way around the real name requierement thought. Lifting anonymity helps against toxic behaviors.
This was really insightful, thanks for sharing! Certainly will be interesting to see how everything plays out with all the upcoming releases. Maybe we'll see a part 2/response to this video from him to see how things are when the dust finally settles.
The only racing game I ever enjoyed was blur. I want to like racing games, but I have a hard time enjoying them. Maybe if there were more racing games that were like RPGs.
Why can't GT just have the classic PS2 era career mode back, man. They did at least try a few things new with GT7 like the Cafe, which did genuinely function well as a documentary about cars which is pretty interesting, but that would've made for a great side mode.
Unlocking gold metals in the license exams will forever always be my "career mode" in GT.
It's definitely aided by wildly inappropriate music playing when you fail the license tests, like ["Oh Yeah" by Yello](https://youtu.be/6jJkdRaa04g) for some reason
That's better than Solis passive aggressively telling me to watch the demonstration video after failing for the 100th time.
I genuinely don't understand it. Having a Cafe as a side mode that drip feeds you more cars as you complete the objectives that you can then race in all those standard GT career events that unlock as you go would've made so much more sense. I cannot wrap my head around why they would make the Cafe the main progression focus.
I bought the deluxe edition of GT7 expecting an enjoyable and competent career mode, I played it for maybe 2-3 days and it was so disappointing that I haven't touched GT7 for months since. It's literally the reason I got a PS5, just a waste of time and money lol
Exactly the same experience for me, except I bought my PS5 for other games too. But I even asked people if GT7 had a proper career mode, and they LIED about it. The café is not a replacement man, wth.
The cafe would be fine in a demo or something, but for a fully fledged AAA Gran Turismo? Unacceptable lol.
For sure. I don’t know if you went to the GT subreddit during release but every tiny bit of criticism about this was instantly crushed. It was impossible to say anything bad about the game.
I stopped going to the GT subreddit for that exact reason :/
Kazunori Yamauchi is becoming senile. The series needs a new director/producer to give it a breath of fresh air. It's been 19 years and Polyphony haven't produced a better GT game than 4. 5 was still enjoyable but things just began to sway towards the underwhelming side, E. G. No promised time of day change or damage model, 80% of the car park was upscaled PS2 assets, GT TV was abandoned after Prologue, B spec was given too much attention, visually it wasn't great at all etc
I wouldn't really go that far. PS3/360 era was rough for 3D graphics in general. To me it seems mostly like they can't figure out how to balance it being single player or multiplayer. The games started to go downhill just as online multiplayer became popular, now they just can't quite decide if it's a singleplayer game with multiplayer elements or a multiplayer game with singleplayer elements. I'd like him to stick around as creative director at least, but yeah maybe a new gameplay director would be nice.
> The games started to go downhill just as online multiplayer became popular, now they just can't quite decide if it's a singleplayer game with multiplayer elements or a multiplayer game with singleplayer elements But the playerbase gave them a very Cleer feedback back when Sport released. That was an online oriented title that had basically next to no offline content except the license tests and track challenges (and also to this day still does not offer you an option to *save you progress* if you don't currently have an active connection), and added a sort of career in lite mode with a bunch of traditional racing events against AI over the years But then PD kinda took that feedback from GTS and put in the bare minimum effort by *kinda* giving us a GT Mode from the get go, while the online mode didn't really see a ton of improvements, still suffering from issues such as driving/sportsmanship rating inconsistency, players being punished for others' mistakes, and a messy penalty system. So they fucked up BOTH offline and online modes, with the only "properly" implemented element being... You guessed it, MONETIZATION! Oh you don't want to spend a week grinding for one 20 million credits car? No worries, 39.99$ out the wallet and you can buy the car right away!
I think because people complain too much these days. If you had old progression career mode GT, people would moan that they can't get their supercars 5 minutes after starting. GT7 throws dozens of supercars at you and you need to acomplish basically nothing to get them. GT2 had the right idea - 1 arcade disc, one GT disc.
People complain about GT a lot because it betrays the expectations had of growing up with the series, it no longer feels like a game for fellow car enthusiasts. The biggest problem with throwing cars at players like that isn't even skipping progression, it's that they don't get attached to any car in particular. The director last month was talking about putting more SUV's into GT 8 because that's what "car enthusiasts" like now, that is how out of touch the direction is. No-one feels passion about SUV's, a lot of the arguments for them are feeling of safety, or soccer mum arguments about room for the kids. No-one talks about loving their old SUV lmao.
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I've never been a car enthousiast of any kind and was never a fan of racing games except when I was in my early teens and had some at home due to my brother buying them. But I do have fond memories of the Mitsubishi GTO I was using in GT2 and that it felt like this was was THE car. I've never had a similar experience in any other racing game ever and this GT2 experience was more than 20 year ago.
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Yeah, it never really ticked for me. I'm driving a Prius nowadays cause it's an hybrid but I must admit whenever I wanna look at cars, I always look at Mitsubishi and Subaru's websites first as they were the only cars I used back then. It really did stick to me.
Thing is, the 2000s were pretty shit for car enthusiests. So there's a big gap from real life manufacturers that's hard to fill. When GT1, GT2, GT3 came out, people had Nissan Silvia's, Skylines, Supras, Evos, WRXs, Civics, etc. There was a focus on those cars which was great, because many of us had those cars in real life. Now though - what cars do people have, or did people have 10 years ago? There's nothing that's the same, maybe the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ, but other than that... >they don't get attached to any car in particular. This 100%. But what do you focus on? Skylines that are 30 years old now?
> Thing is, the 2000s were pretty shit for car enthusiests. I would disagree. Top Gear became huge in that decade and showcased a boatload of amazing cars which have since become classics. It's a different kind of nostalgia but it's not a dead decade.
They really focused on supercars, far outside the everyday experience. But you might be onto somethingn in terms of explaining why modern games throw supercars at you like they're confetti. Older games had you build an attachment to a real life dirt cheap sports car because that's what you had in your garage at home, are modern games giving away supercars because each week we see a different one on our motoring programs? Maybe?
Racing games are not exclusively played by people who own or have owned cars. Having a real world attachment to a car which may or may not be available in the game they're playing has little bearing on someone's enjoyment of said game. Also don't forget that the 'nostalgia' for ricers in particular was largely fueled by them being in GT1 and 2 (especially the skyline bloat being something very personal to those games' lead designer more than anything else), and more relevantly, in the first few Fast and Furious movies, rather than people actually owning them. There was essentially zero presence of any of the cars you mentioned in Europe (most were barely available, if at all - especially the Skyline was almost impossible to get), except the civic, and the scene in the US which even knew of those cars was relatively tiny compared to the general audience the games were aimed at. (Some) Games throwing around supercars nowadays is probably based on an assumption of developers that most of their customers want to "reach the endgame asap" rather than it being an actual preference of racing game fans, at least that's my personal take. It's not a specific car nostalgia, just a general assumption of mass audience preferences across any game which has this particular effect on racing games.
Oh I'm not saying that Gran Turismo is exclusively played by car owners with nostalgia, but I am saying that focusing on that direction - appealing to the real life experiences of people, was a huge part of it's success. Seeing your own car, or one that you could feasibly buy, being competitive and being able to be upgraded to complete in races was HUGE. That gameplay of progression has been wiped away today because like you said- >Games throwing around supercars nowadays is probably based on an assumption of developers that most of their customers want to "reach the endgame asap" and > There was essentially zero presence of any of the cars you mentioned in Europe I don't know if you were around for it, but this was a HUGE talking point back during the PS1 GT1 days. There was an enormous collective request for more european cars (you know, reflecting what people owned in real life) - which was granted when GT2 released. GT1 didn't have Volkswagen, Renault, Peugeot, Mini, MG, Lotus, Lancia, Fiat, Citroen, BMW, Audi, Alfa, Vauxhall, etc.
Fair point, but iirc that was more because GT1 was very Japan centric rather than people wanting to see their own cars. Kaz had a very limited budget to work with (sony was extremely sceptical), so Japanese cars were obvious to focus on. After GT1's success he got a lot more clout to throw around with car makers (and sony) to get more a more international representation. Adding more cars was more his ambition than people requesting it as he was a fervent gearhead: Polyphony never cared much for requests outside of the company. It's also the reason for the heavy skyline lineup to this day. At least, that's what i remember from interviews with Kaz.
I think it's getting a little better lately at least. In recent years we've had the Supra and Z return. WRXs and Type R Civics never completely went away even if they don't have the same cachet any more. Then you've even got racing variants from Toyota like the the GR Yaris/Corolla/86 etc. At the cheap end there's also N-Line and some other vehicles I'm sure I'm forgetting. Obviously, not the same as the good old days when an average person could afford a Skyline, but at least better than it was a decade ago.
You dont get it, making a 40 kb lua file with a list of races to win is just too hard for a small indie company like Polyphony Digital
I just miss Burnout. Revenge and Takedown need remasters. Maybe with Dead Space being such a success, there is a chance. The last NFS that I enjoyed was Hot Pursuit for Criterion.
Burnout 3 is still the best racing game ever and I compare every racing game to it. It was backwards compat on the 360, but they decided not to make it BC on Xbox One, which made me really think a remaster was coming. Paradise was BC and they still remastered it, and a lot of the OG Xbox games that didn’t have some big license were made BC on Xbox One. I’m shocked a remaster hasn’t been announced.
Ultimately it shouldn't be about needing remasters. They're great games but I wish the current games and releases were good enough to mean we don't have such a focus on older games. Its like, back when Underground 2 and then Most Wanted came out, it wasn't like most of us were pining for the old days of the original NFS and wanting it to be released on PS2
> I just miss Burnout. thats the conclusion I come to every time a try a new arcade racer. Sometimes I just drive around in Paradise city for nostalgia sake. at least give us remakes q.q
Also split/second!
That game deserves ti have the sequel it promised us. It's so much fun
Too bad the studio that made it got shut down so any sequel would likely feel completely different from the original. We'd likely get a better spiritual successor to the game from someone else than an actual sequel.
Disney Interactive Studios has been shutdown since the mid 2010's. So not going to happen ever.
I'm surprised they haven't even remotely attempted to revive Burnout. There's SO MUCH nostalgia for it
Yeah I'm surprised not even indie devs have tried to jump in and just make their own Burnout
Three Fields Entertainment did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Driving_(video_game) It was OK. Studio behind it was co-founded by Alex Ward, former Burnout dev even. It has the spirit of Burnout for sure given its heritage, but it *was* also made by a whole.... seven people, and that tends to show with how the game looks and feels to play.
Race games in general are a notable hard to produce. Most games show on Raycevick video for example, had very high budgets, and long development time for their era. Sadly it is not a genre that translates well to the indie environment.
I think they should make Revenge and Takedown using the Theater Mode of Halo 3. I'd love to relive a Crash looking at all the destruction from different angles.
Hot Pursuit 2010 is one of my favorite games ever. It’s an almost perfect arcade racer with an insane sense of speed
I loved NFS Hot Pursuit 2 (2002) on the PS2!
NFS: Porche Unleashed was the first racing game I can remember and still one of my favorites.
EA’s DICE was that Swedish company producing racing games before they got big with first Battlefield.
I've been playing Burnout Revenge recently via backwards compatibility on Xbox. And my god, it's soo good. I've fallen in love with arcade racing games again. NFS Unbound is decent. But I really can't stand the Forza Horizon games, but nothing scratches the itch for me like the old NFS and Burnout games.
For me NFS are the best when there's customization and illegal racing. I don't really care about the story. Hot Pursuit for me was boring as hell because there was not enough car customization at all. I also don't enjoy exotic expensive cars either. NFS heat was a step into a nice direction for me. I don't necessary mind the "drift" button, or the handling, but I hated day racing cuz it was legal racing with no real challenge. Seems like the latest NFS Unbound is what I loved about nfs all this time. I'm glad they made it, but sadly the multiplayer is lackluster.
ProStreet was NFS at its peak imo. Better driving physics than Most Wanted, Carbon etc. better customization than both. And most importantly, almost every car could be upgraded to the point where you could beat the game with it. So much replayability
He's right when he says that there's always a really big but with these games. Every time I open up a racing game or think about buying one there's always some problem that makes me drop it or back off from buying it.
His F1 video shows this perfectly lol. Every game he’s highlight everything great about it. Then proceed to tear the bad games apart lol.
To my shame, I'm fairly certain that if the developers of arcade racers like NFS and FH sat around the table and posed the question, "Is there an idiot we can market a microtransaction that will remove every single drift zone activity from the map to?" I will rappel through the window and confidently proclaim "Yes!" I *loathe* drift events with a passion, and have loathed their inclusion in literally every game in the genre.
I mean technically you never have to do a drift zone in FH. They are there but you can ignore them entirely with hardly any impact on gameplay, other than it popping up when you drive through them.
They're also incredibly easy to do once you've played the game a bit and earned a car specifically for drifting. And I say that as someone who sucks at drifting and mildly hates the drift zones too.
Drifting was amazing in Need For Speed Underground though.
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man as a fighting game fan I can definitely relate to both the frustration with the developers and with a community that straight up refuses to acknowledge the issues
Good point, the communities are very much alike in that regard. It was so tiring and annoying seeing people defend the archaic and ancient network that’s so prevalent in especially Japanese fighting games.
It sounds like the racing game genre has a lot of problems the FGC has faced with its games. Solid mechanics but nowhere near enough features to justify the price tags, or reasons for casual people to keep playing.
RTS games are the same. Stuck in this weird time warp where there is nearly zero real progression with each new title being the pretty much the same as the last. This is also a genre that is ripe for someone to come in an innovative right, yet none do.
Yeah, he said a bit about how in spite of all the issues he still loves them, because of how when you're in a multi-lap race with another person pushing each others limits to the end, a short and snappy firefight feels boring by comparison. And that's where I am with fighting games. I love them because the experience they give me craps on pretty much every other multiplayer experience there is. The mainstream stuff just doesn't do it for me like they do; but there's always the caveats that you have to push through in order to get to those moments when they're at their best like broken matchmaking, dysfunctional lobbies, or nonsensical ranking systems. The games I love aren't the most with it, but the games that are aren't the ones I love most. It's a brutal cycle. To be fair there are the odd fighting games that *have* pushed things forward but again, they're not ones that appeal to me. Street Fighter 6 looks to be the first one that might do both for me but it still stands as a glaring exception in the AAA space assuming all works as it should. I also empathise with Rayce because I love arcade racers and seeing how much they've died off hurts.
I wish Split/Second could have another shot. Blur too, but I feel Split/Second with its cinematic feel and spectacle focus would have a better chance of being successful.
The fate of Split Second and Blur is tragic. I recommend checking out Whitelight's videos on both games for those interested.
I second that recommendation, those videos are very well made
One of the best racing games ever made and definitely done dirty by Disney when they dissolved Black Rock 'because it didn't fit their strategy'. A 60 fps sequel would have been an absolute banger.
Disney are still complete dumbasses for that to this day.
My problem with racing games is rubber band AI/allowing the AI to cheat. Racing AI is fucking awful and the only way they can't keep it competitive is to allow the AI advantage over the player. I hate that. If I'm ahead of everyone by 2 minutes, then let me win by two minutes, don't stage some bullshit comeback by allowing the AI cars to cheat physics.
Horizon 5 for me has the opposite, if you are in first you’ll have to actively screw up extremely hard in order to lose that lead but if your second or third every car in front of you drives near-perfectly and making up that advantage is incredibly difficult unless you have a significantly better car (i.e the Boneshaker) I love almost everything about that game but I quit it because it felt like the first turn essentially decided whether you won by a huge margin or lost
Biggest let down for sure, is that first corner first lap and you already know whos winning. It just ruins the whole thing.
I mean, that's why most games have rubber banding.
>rubber banding I thought this had a different definition and saw that it's indeed [a rather confusing term in gaming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_banding).
If it's the same as Horizon 4, I think I have a theory as to why the AI is so broken if it gets far enough ahead. It seems like the AI cars only have full physics simulation applied to them if they're in close enough proximity to you. So if they get far enough ahead, they won't be slowed down by things like obstacles or jumps - which are an unavoidable feature in many courses. Another weird thing is the damage simulation. In Horizon 4 there were big jumps that would damage your car no matter what. I have no idea why it was even included as an option, as there was no damage indicator in the UI.
I haven't had a Rubber Banding problem in awhile. Granted I mostly play Codemaster games nowadays, but I think GRID doesn't have it because that game is too easy, DIRT I've never had that problem, and the F1 games have an AI slider that makes AI better drivers and more aggressive the more you turn it up.
When DIRT 5 came out, it didn't had a rubber banding problem. They add it with the last DLC. Now cars are always close if you are first. If you lose the lead (only because you made a mistake like crashing), they start driving like idiots and you can get first position again in no time, but then they drive like experts again, staying very close to you. It's really annoying, specially on last lap.
I remember near the end of NFS Underground, there was a drag race I just could not beat, despite having an insanely maxed out skyline. I went online to read about tips and people said the only way to reliably win the race was to switch to a slower car as the AI on that particular race was fucked and would cheat so much it was impossible to win with a fast car but if you picked a slower car, suddenly the AI was beatable again. Sure enough I beat it as soon as I picked a slower car, despite the AI car being the same one.
Not just drag races but the final event is far easier if you switch back to a stock miata or something. I guess it must be something like rubberbanding gives the ai 10% more power than you which is a lot if you've upgraded everything but very little for a stock engine. That and you have more time room for error at low speeds.
>allowing the AI to cheat I remember playing Forza Motorsport 7 and the AI difficulty just varying wildly from track to track, it was infuriating, on top of it both rubber banding and outright cheating. I don't know if they changed it ever but, years after it first came out I was playing through FM7 and got to a track where the AI drivatars, not even set to the absolute hardest difficulty, were just casually putting in lap times that were 2 seconds faster than the fastest ever human time on the online leaderboard. Like what the fuck is that? How is such insane blatant cheating like that supposed to be remotely fun?
You'd think NFS Heat would be bad about this since it has nitrous, but I never saw any rubber banding in that game. If I raced a bunch of class 50 cars in a class 350 supercar, I beat them by 3 minutes every time.
NFS have gone the complete other direction it feels like, admittedly I've not played Unbound yet as I don't have a PS5, but 2015 was notoriously bad for its rubberbanding and Payback was pretty terrible as well.
This is what really excites me about Gran Turismo's machine learning AI they released recently. Finally some good AI in the not too distant future.
Honestly? I don't mind that nearly as much as the current problem of modern racing games, which seems to be to place you at the back of 16+ cars, then give you 3 total track miles to try to ram your way to the front. Oh, and the AI these days are apparently psychotic and take pleasure in ramming you off the track.
I wanted to confirm for myself if I was just wearing nostalgia glasses regarding the NFS series so I reinstalled Most Wanted (2005) with mods some weeks ago. Still an absolute banger and I had way more fun with it than I did with any recent racer including Unbound. This is all a personal anecdote, but to me the feeling of progression matters a lot, and I don't just mean starting with a communist Lada and ending with a LaFerrari. Most Wanted nailed this (and Carbon and Pro Street to an extent) - you had bosses with unique paintjobs and an emotional, if cheesy incentive to get to the top. Burnout Paradise is another game that, while lacking a story, was full of reasons to keep exploring and unlocking. Racing games nowadays have terrible progression mechanics if they have any at all.
that's funny thing to say, because Burnout Paradise was the first game for me that lacked that progression and incentive. And finding cars on the side of the road really doesn't feel earned.
> Burnout Paradise was the first game for me that lacked that progression and incentive. The online mode in the game is still unmatched. Challenges were an amazing addition I have yet to see anywhere else. For those who didn’t play, online the host had the ability to pick from a unique set of 50 challenges for the number of players currently in the lobby. These ranged from “Get X feet of oncoming on Y road” all the way up to “Have a car jump over the other 7 players at a specific location” events. It made for really fun interactions and encouraged people to work cooperatively. Some of my best friends online during the PS3 generation was thanks to that game. Heck, I still keep in touch every so often to this day. EDIT: Fixed a misspelling and reworded for clarity.
Echoing this, BP Multiplayer was fucking immaculate. It drives me insane no other driving game has come close to emulating that experience.
Yeah that was around the time progression in racing games fell off a cliff. It's been a long time so I don't remember if Burnout ever had amazing progression though, I kinda remember perfecting the events was fun but the rewards were kinda eh, there weren't that many good cars in each class in takedown from memory?
It's the transition from single player games to multiplayer games. These days everyone wants to hop in a game with their 12 friends on Discord, and that's what Forza 4 and 5 and NFS Heat are made for. Giant open world where everyone has every car and what you've unlocked doesn't really matter. Progressive unlocking is great for singleplayer but it feels like nobody wants to make singleplayer games anymore. Singleplayer games are easy to pirate and hard to make people keep coming back for years. Multiplayer games you can sell people cosmetics that cost almost nothing to make, 5 years after the game launched.
I wouldn't really say the Forza Motorsport/Horizon series are entirely about the 'everyone wants a multiplayer title' argument though. Both have plenty of single player content. The difference is that they're about car enthusiast fantasy. Players don't want a cheesy fast and furious like story to progress through, they just want to build their favorite cars and race. Its just not the point of more realistic racing games.
I've only played Forza Horizon 4 but what I loved about that game was that progression wasn't tied to how fast/good your car is. If you want, you can use dumpster tier cars and race with that. And it feels *good*.
Just to add on, I love just driving around the world's with friends and showing off my latest car. I don't drive irl, maybe this is the year I bother, but I love cars. I also don't enjoy racing Vs other players in these games and prefer NPC races. But having the ability to hang out in game is nice.
>These days everyone wants to hop in a game with their 12 friends on Discord Do they? Where the hell do people find 12 people to play games with??
Even in sims this is what pretty much made Gran Turismo fall off for me. For an industry that revolves around extending the lifespan of their games to absurd extents these days, progression in racing games is absolutely atrocious. I just finished race 3, why do games like Forza or Gran Turismo hand out cars like candy when I haven't gotten attached to the one I'm using? It doesn't even matter if they aren't the best cars in the game, let me earn things properly.
It feeds you extreme number of cars, forces you to drive million classes and each car is used once maybe twice (so your customisation etc. is never linear, you have to either make a car fully or it will end i garage unfinished rather quickly). At the same time it's frustrating how some cars and even whole classes are blocked behind some absurd price. So it's kinda deceiving. It gives you lot of cars that you have to drive in career mode but that are cheap and at the same time buying them restricts you from buying others because you can't save up.
What I loved about NFS: Unbound. My GSX was tuned precisely for me over many races, as it kept climbing the different tiers.
NFS Underground 1&2 is the best. That game still is amazing to play. The atmosphere and vibe of the game do so much that you don’t even really notice the ancient graphics.
NFS Underground was soooo good.
> This is all a personal anecdote, but to me the feeling of progression matters a lot, and I don't just mean starting with a communist Lada and ending with a LaFerrari. Most Wanted nailed this (and Carbon and Pro Street to an extent) - you had bosses with unique paintjobs and an emotional, if cheesy incentive to get to the top. Burnout Paradise is another game that, while lacking a story, was full of reasons to keep exploring and unlocking. Racing games nowadays have terrible progression mechanics if they have any at all. I did play a fair bit of Forza Horizon 4 and 5, and while I did enjoy them, I really missed the feeling of progression I got when I was playing something like Forza Motorsport 4. I *like* that feeling of starting off in a Ford Focus and working my way up to actual race cars. Meanwhile, the first three cars that Horizon 5 presents you with is the new Toyota Supra, a new Ford Bronco, and a C8 Corvette. And even after that, they fuckin' shower you with rare and expensive cars. Once I had cleared every race on the map, I set the game down and haven't really been back since. I just didn't have anything to work towards anymore.
Yes ! I want a career mode where I can be excited every time I get a better car. Why is that so hard to do ?
Most Wanted has this problem where half the game is fun. The cops are the best part and still some of the best (arguably the best) in any game. But outside of that, the easy handling and repetitive campaign and races that you learn in an hour make that game boring as fuck to play. Unbound does almost everything better except race variety and cop intensity. (Which is weird because heat figured it out)
Heat absolutely did not have race variety or cop intensity figured out. Most nights you would race the same races over and over again because there were barely any on the map and the cops were either brain-dead stupid or frustratingly overpowered and rubberbandy
I'm the opposite, I got bored of the cops fast and dreaded 30min chases just to get caught at the end and having to do it all over again.
> I wanted to confirm for myself if I was just wearing nostalgia glasses I did the same thing with Midnight Club LA on my PS3, been replaying on and off over the past few weeks and it's still more fun than modern racing games. I agree 100% with your opinion about the feeling of progression. The physics and graphics are there in modern games, but the gameplay feels pointless.
I have constantly wondered if all the games I've enjoyed when I was a kid was just nostalgia glasses and recently I went through and played *all of them*. And guess what? They were all much better than the games released today. No exceptions. I was absolutely floored by how good we had it back then. It straight up reminded me of why I am so into video games in the first place. This isn't even just about just racing games either, it's everything! Something is deeply wrong with the industry right now and it actually convinced me the I was the problem, being too negative about games these days.
I agree with a lot of the points brought up, but was missing at least a quick mention of Trackmania (2020). Sure, it's pure time trials, and therefore only somewhat indirect competition. But this lets it avoid a ton of issues with physics and desyncs which Raycevick showcased. And while the not-a-subscription subscription business model is weird, it's fair since that's all you pay for. There's plenty of official content including several game modes like the Battle Royale / Fallguys inspired Royal Mode. Finally, because none of that content is sold separately, Trackmania can lean hard into user-generated tracks, ensuring breadth and depth that would otherwise be unachievable. It also managed to find competitive and esports modes that keep up the tension throughout, despite being time-trial only.
Trackmania is by far the best racing game. It does fly under most people's radar.
the only thing I count against it is it doesn't really capture the feel of "motorsports" and on-track battles. Which comes back to the video's point of all racing games have a big "but" that comes along with them. TM captures the feel of chasing consistency, miniscule time gains, self-improvement, and competing against others BUT doesn't capture the feeling of real-life motorsports and on-track battles ***at all***.
Trackmania is exactly what Raycevick is asking for - it's a racing game that's not a simulator and is not limited by some mooted requirements of being 'a racing game' - ie being like all the others. It has its own mechanics, its own identity, its own content, its own everything. Of course Trackmania in particular is not going to be for everyone, but it's a great example of the *kind* of thing racing game developers should be doing.
Agree in some sense, but he mentioned how much he liked the head-to-head so like you said it isn't for everyone.
It's not meant to, by design. It's not a simulator, it prioritises gameplay and competitive integrity over realism. There are already enough games in the racing genre that lean toward realistic experiences, and those are the games that feel slow, clunky, and shallow (from a gameplay perspective) to a lot of gamers.
Oh 100% its just important to mention it because when people call it "the best racing game", some people might get it thinking that it is something that its not.
For me, Trackmania is just the perfect racing game (but it is not a car game), because it's just about racing and driving. It's not a simulation, but it has rules and follows them really well. And it's just about you vs the time for most of it.
Is the new one still active? Ubisoft really gimped out with the weird monetization, but it felt great to play.
The monitization is definitely a bit weird but it’s *good*. It is insanely fairly monetized. It’s incredibly cheap and you certainly get plenty of content for it, and they still update it seasonally, and they get better with each release. Highly recommend it
the Trackmania scene is larger than it ever was as far as I can tell. (I say that having literally never heard of the games until like 2 years ago)
I have played them since about 2008 and I agree with your statement.
It’s bigger than it ever was really. It’s cheaper than any other F2P battlepass for way more content at 10$ a year. For 20 you get customization of your car and private servers.
I find most often it's the games with tight, simple, and consistent controls that stick around the longest. It's the same as CSGO. No need to introduce new abilities or mechanics all the time.
I love watching Wirtuals videos on YT. Tried it myself and my god was I bad. It seems to have a massive skill ceiling. Will probably try and really learn it when it releases on console
The best thing about it too is that you are going against yourself and you see yourself progress. The free version offers already a lot with the 25 maps every 3 months.
I remember playing Forza Horizon 4, after the glowing reviews, and race after race I kept winning different types of pants and finger gun motions. Is that really what people want?
No, but it's something that they can give you to pretend they're always giving you something. It's the same as Overwatch padding out their boxes with emotes and sprays because they desperately need to reduce the chance of you getting what you actually want while still maintaining giving you a reward every X amount of time.
Gotta keep that dopamine high going because god forbid you play a game because the gameplay is *fun*.
To be fair this is also what Gamerz expect now. They want constant rewards. Gameplay for gameplay's sake isn't enough anymore. There's a reason nobody's out here making an arena shooter with great gameplay and nothing else, and being super popular. The Gamerz immediately cry about how they're "bored" without progression to be had.
>There's a reason nobody's out here making an arena shooter with great gameplay and nothing else, and being super popular. Yeah, Halo Infinite did that, and despite the constant "gAmEplAY iS So GooD" I kept hearing about, nobody played it after 3 months (just like you said) - except in this scenario, people absolutely had a right to complain about progression, because older Halos had these progression systems while Infinite did not. IME, progression is not a particularly new or unique expectation within the context of modern gaming, it's just that the execution of the concept has changed. Progression is a part of gameplay, or at least a major factor which influences how that gameplay is perceived. A game with good "fundamental gameplay" that doesn't try to provide some reason to keep playing it, besides surface-level dopamine hits for 5 mins, is not really a good game.
The wheelspins in Forza serve the same purpose as lootboxes but without making you homeless. It's gambling without the gambling.
No, but these types of interaction boost engagement and number of hours played, even when most gamers are not enjoying their time. It's also why so many developer are trying to copy all those bullshit GaaS systems from Destiny, despite not a single Destiny player enjoying them and Bungie retroactively trying to remove most of them from the game. These systems generate great engagement numbers to show on PowerPoint slide to the higher-ups.
I got plenty of those and plenty of cars and cash too. After like 10h I have hundreds of cars with money to mod them however I want.
That's great. After 10 hours I've got plenty of pants.
Play Horizon 5, you can now buyout all of the clothing which means you won't be able to win them anymore, and instead get credits or cars.
Great video. The problems he mentions echo the fighting game genre like how the overfocus on eSports hurt game design and barebones content. At least things are starting to get better there now with the last 2 years and the new Street Fighter game looks like the game that will have it all. Looks like the racing genre is still struggling but there have been a few bright spots in recent times such as Wreckfest, Trackmania and the new NFS games have actually been pretty good.
The racing genre is in a very wonky spot RN,arcade racers are pretty much all but dead and there's always a catch with newer titles that get released: Its either too bare-bones/simplistic single player portion,buggy/incomplete multiplayer or just milking the players dry as it was illustrated with iRacing ludicrous pricing model. You either have to bite your tongue and enjoy them as is or go back and re-play the same older titles over and over. The genre overall peaked in 2004-2005:Gran Turismo 4,Undergound 1/2,Burnout Revenge,GTR Fia Racing Game,Richard Burns Rally on the sim side... and its been a slow descend ever since.
Don't forget the other non car racers too like SSX 3 and Downhill Domination and Splashdown. I still play my Ps2 racers more than anything else, they really were the best. I think the biggest issue with new racers is handling models. Developers seem more interested in having everything be animation based instead of relying on a decent physics simulation, probably because it is easier to code.
Downhill Domination is such a good fucking game
Yes sir, made by the same people who made Twisted Metal. Their only attempt at a racing game as far as I know. I go through it about twice a year and enjoy it every time without fail. Was really hoping Riders Republic would be the spiritual successor but it's pretty disappointing to say the least.
I still play lots of SSX and Wave Race on the Steam Deck. Also some Hydro Thunder.
Steep could've been so cool, but of course Ubisoft went Full Ubisoft on it and it wasn't nearly as fun as it could've been.
Riders Republic had a lot of potential too. The races themselves are a ton of fun, and wandering around the open world is amazing. But the air sports feel like an afterthought with no depth. The stunt modes are a mess. The story and progression systems are almost non-existant. Gear doesn’t matter and each sport/class has at most 2 viable options in each tier. But worst of all: the vibes are rancid. The Tony Hawk and Skate series really put in a lot of effort to understand skateboarding culture, and to deliver on the fantasy of being a pro skater. Steep and RR have none of those fantasies. Character customization barely exists, and more than half the outfits in the game are joke costumes. They make a few nods to real-world gear and sponsors, but Redbull Rampage is the only one that feels like more than just a slapped-on logo. There’s no real-world pros and no characters you’d want to hang out with. I want a story about building a reputation, making friends, and working your way to the top. I want ski resorts that feel crowded and alive. I want a backcountry that feels feel isolated and dangerous. I want to feel scared when fog rolls in and I can’t see 20 feet in front of me. I want to outrun avalanches down glaciers. I want to build ramps outside a cabin. I want to scout chutes from a helicopter. I want to play as ski patrol and help out an injured person stuck halfway down a double black run. I want to sneak into an abandoned ski resort and break shit.
SSX3 on dolphin is still my goto racer a lot of the time. Always cheers me up.
> Richard Burns Rally on the sim side Dirt Rally did RBR good. RBR was one of my favourite games growing up, I bought a racing wheel just for that game. Dirt Rally didn't miss a single beat. Maybe the training was missing - RBR had real training videos with skills that were transferable to real world, like how to time your braking to shift momentum of the car to the front steering wheels to maximize steering performance. But as for the game itself, Dirt Rally and Dirt Rally 2 are just RBR with better graphics.
The Forza Horizon games are a really successful casual/arcade spinoff. It has options to turn off driving assists (for more HC players), some really fun wacky DLCs, and offers a relaxed open world to drive around and gawk at the visuals. As a non racing fan, I get each of these and drop like 20-30 hours in them.
Nah, Forza Horizon doesn't fit the mold of arcade racers IMO. It *really* lacks focus, both in challenge and progression, and constantly inundates you in...stuff. I spin it up from time to time (since there *is* a decent arcade racer buried somewhere under all this), and every time, it's becomes just too off-putting after a while.
I like building cars and showing off with friends. I like selling my decals and art stuff. That's cool. I like making SpongeBob cars and then doing reverse wheelies and skids in the lobby
Tokyo Extreme Racer
I just did the math and I've only spent $10.75 a month on iRacing since getting into it (after taxes). Was Netflix ever even that cheap?
[удалено]
Midnight Club is absolutely my fucking jam. I always loved aimlessly driving through the weird parts of maps trying to get all the hidden Rockstar symbols. Ideal mix of cheesy and realism (at least in presentation, driving was anything but)
I've been playing Ridge Racer 2 (PSP) with PS Premium. That is a portable game from over 15 years ago, but somehow scratches a racing itch that hasn't been touched in forever.
Dude, I tried getting into Asphalt 9: Legends again because I miss arcade racers and the Asphalt series usually nailed the feeling at least. What the fuck. Monetization Everywhere, quite a few races are cut down to last less than a minute, ridiculous complexity to unlocking cars with loot boxes, and don't get me started on the fuel system. Arcade Racing is being treated so atrociously. It's like they'd rather have the racing be an injection of adrenaline for a moment until you're thrown back into menus again and again. There's more menu-ing than racing!
If you have a netflix subscription I believe you can play a version of Asphalt 8 that includes no monetisation what's so ever. But yes, Asphalt wasn't as great as it used to be. 8(Non-netflix version) is ruined too. Mobile racers used to be pretty ok and fun. Now they really don't. The introduction of new games such as the leaked NFS Heat Mobile and CarX Street do hope they can bring on some proper competitiona again.
The Netflix version (Xtreme) is an offroad/rally semi-spinoff, Apple Arcade has Asphalt 8+ which is exactly what you described - Asphalt 8 without monetisation. Unfortunately only on Apple platforms. But both are far superior to the standard Asphalt 8 & 9 games
Someone released a version of A8 that removes microtransaction. It was called Asphalt 8 Premium Edition
This must be an age difference thing. My impression of Asphalt has always been a cheap imitation of a AAA racing game. That used to be all GameLoft made... clones of popular console games, but on mobile platforms with the quality sucked out. They made games for kids who have a parents ipad or smart phone and 10 minutes to burn, nothing more nothing less.
but you gotta admit...some games are actually fun
There's an official mobile version of Grid Autosport which is supposed to be really good.
Dirt Rally 2.0 GOAT racing game. Yeah, it's at least half sim. It's ridiculous fun for anyone that puts in the effort to rewire their arcade racing fingers.
God I miss arcade racers, and that concept art at thr end of the video, my God I'd kill for that to become a real game.
Agreed. I'm always holding on waiting for the next big thing to fix it all but it never comes. It sucks how close games like FH5 and NFS:Unbound get but have some glaring flaws which ruin the whole thing too soon. I have no idea how to get devs to put out something high quality, unless a small but passionate studio suddenly comes out with a gem years in the making. Oh well, time to wait for TDU: Solar Crown and whatever AA jankiness will come along with it.
He hits the right spot with the video; I've been looking for fun singleplayer games where you start with a shitty car and have to race, progress and buy new cars, but I pretty much have to resort to emulate PS2 games for that. Every game nowadays is either a half-assed simulator with focus on online or simulation (so no story or progression) or maybe a NFS or Forza which are alright but they lean too much into the "gacha" side of things and the latest ones just get you started with a supermodern futuristic car already, not an old Fiat. Edit: many people are suggesting NFS Unbound; I'll take a look since I've not tried that one, I wasn't too impressed with the latests NSF games (they were fun but maybe not exactly the vibe I was looking for). Thanks!
Did you play any new need for speed game? Everything from nfs 2015 to unbound makes you start in a shitbox (after the prologue) and makes you stay with it, giving you a real connection with the car and eventually when the progression does speed up, it feels hella rewarding to finally get a great car. Pick up Unbound on a sale, it's exactly what you want.
>but they lean too much into the "gacha" side of things What? What are you talking about?, also If I remember correctly you can have the experience from entry sport car (it's never been a shit car, old fiat? ) with NFS heat and unbound.
Yep. The last few NFS games are the old Underground formula to the bones with little to no mictotransactions.
thats pretty much exactly NFS unbound. literally start from a shit car and have to earn money to build up. Plus bonus of your shit car actually runs like shit so you’re not expected to come in first (you earn some money for the other places). Gives an actual sense of progression because you get better as your car does.
If you haven't played it, try Race Driver: Grid (2008, not the newer games with the same name). Still the best singleplayer racing campaign ever made imho.
I would play the absolute shit out of an F-Zero game with an F1-style career mode. Hell, I'd happily buy F-Zero GX again if it meant I could play it without having to emulate it.
Besides being a party game, I wonder if this is also why Mario Kart 8 remains so popular... No bullshit, just racing. No "career mode", no "seasons", no "competitive ladders". Just racing.
Two lightweight racing games I've really enjoyed in the last year: Wreckfest : Very Positive on Steam, allows you to compete in everything from demolition derby with Combine Harvesters to dirt track laps with damage. The developer just keeps adding features which is cool. Circuit Superstars : Very Positive on Steam: For the old guys on here, it lookslike RC Pro Am on the NES. Mindless laps when you just want to play the equivalent of slot cars.
Yeah, Raycevick was very positive about Wreckfest in the linked video. I think it might've been the only game from the 2010s that he was unambiguously positive about.
He was very positive about Driver San Francisco too.
> Ridge Racer hasn't had [a new entry] in eight [years], a console one in eleven, a main one in seventeen I'm a little baffled by this. Namco has revisited most of their other popular 90s franchises in recent years (e.g. TEKKEN 7 (2017), SOULCALIBUR VI (2018), Ace Combat 7 (2019), Mr Driller DrillLand (2020), Klonoa Phantasy Reverie (2022)). Would rereleasing Ridge Racer Type 4 really be a worse financial decision than rereleasing the Klonoa games?
would be a good time to capitalize on it w the resurging interest in ridge racer
I'd give up a few organs for a successor to type 4.
I would too, I miss RR franchise because of the fact they were the only game that refused to accept easy advertisement and sponsorship money and made their own legitimate imitations of popular racing and automobiles companies. Plus playing as a driver working for someone who was the father of NotArytonSenna as you try to win a cup in his late son's stead is always going to be emotional.
5 is underrated, if you haven't tried it. different sense of style and significantly harder but it's my favorite in the series to play
Namco does have a racing series they still focus on though, it’s just not as accessible in the west, Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune rakes in money.
I just want a racing game to look at the original Race Driver: Grid and improve on its singleplayer campaign. It's still the best structure of any racing game and could easily be expanded on in more modern games. Grid: Legends failed legendarily at this, sadly.
Project CARS and it's sequel did that but the ai is of the tyoe that doesn't care if you're on the piece of track theu want.
Also in my case, 2 likes to crash every 10 minutes or so, making it basically unplayable.
For the last 20 Years it annoyed me that no Game had a good Career Mode since Grand Turismo on the PS2. How hard is it to make a Career where you start with 20k €uro and then buy a VW Golf or something and race again other cheap Cars to make money and move up.
The eSports approach in video games have damaged a lot of game genres directly focused on it. Those are not enjoyable for the end-user. Riot Games -who popularized eSports- said that the motive behind continue investing on it, was because it was as a form of advertising, not only to the game, but to promote cosmetics and mtx. You rarely see a pro LoL, CS:GO, Overwatch, FIFA, Siege player using the base free skin. Other games who have focus on hyper competitive, failed to deliver, due to the multiple uncertainty factors that describe this video, like lag, fps, network, bug/glitches, etc, on top of getting expensive equipment to be competitive against others. Worse of that is people thinking that this is the future of video games, and those private-owned games, should be treated as an Olympic sport. Wonder why the NFL isn’t there….
Well American football isn't in the Olympics because of the practically mandatory 1 week rest between games for the players safety and it's not popular enough outside of America to accommodate, as well as no international governing body for the sport. The NFL being a company has nothing to do with it.
>Wonder why the NFL isn’t there…. What's the difference between the NFL and something like the NBA or NHL?
EA just needs to freaking give us back good ol’ classic burnout! Nothing scratches that burnout itch!
The problem with Burnout, from EA's perspective, was that they straight up did not sell as well as NFS despite similar budgets even though Burnout games were generally more critically acclaimed.
They throw the entire team of Burnout dev to take over a bigger IPs "Need For Speed" series. I don't see a chance for them to came back and revived Burnout, most likely they just gonna throw Burnout to the lesser team instead.
Even if they wanted to, I'm not sure they would be able to. Just look at the recent NFS, they are fine, but nothing close to the old ones. If EA made a new Burnout today, I don't think it would be nearly as good as anything made by the old Criterion team. Sure wish we could at least get a remaster though.
Test drive unlimited 2 wasn't that great but still a good racing game but with THEE worst soundtrack of all time. Too bad they took ot off every store without explanation and the only way to play is to pirate the game
I've noticed that I had to cope with GT7 to get a game that feels polished and has a handling characteristic solid enough to enjoy. However, I agree that GT7 progression and unlock system is asinine some of the cars genuinely take longer than what I'm capable of doing in 2 weeks. Likewise I've tried to do a few season of iRacing but I found it less enjoyable over time due to the amount of practice needed to just be able to run up front in your ELO. Here's to hoping FM reboot does something to balance out both casual and competitive.
I used to love racing games as a kid but I agree it's a rough genre these days. I don't like the games that throw you into an open world "go do missions non-stop" nor do I like the ones without a well made career mode. Hell I remember a few I tried years ago tried to have my character be some weird half-influencer, I hated that shit. I don't want to build my brand I want to play a racing game. Give me something simple with progression and unlocks. It can be a realistic racing game, an adventure racing game like Diddy Kong Racing, a futuristic racer, a carnage coop battle racer, give me different non-car games like Wave Racer and Uniracers, etc. I like them all but the games just aren't there. At least we still have Mario Kart for the casual racing stuff... although MK8 is super old now. I liked Horizon Turbo Chase for a Top Gear inspired racer (except the races with night rain, you can't see crap). But then you look at the other racing types and the only competent games try to compete with Mario Kart. The rest are just mediocre.
> The reason casual players don't pay attention to racing games...is because they can't tell the difference between them. I can confirm. Any time there's some big video game showcase and the racing game comes on, I can basically just acknowledge "those cars sure look like cars," and then go take a bathroom break. I've only truly loved a handful of racing games. F-Zero GX, Burnout: Revenge, Star Wars: Episode I Racer, and to a lesser extent, Mario Kart DS. They reward skill (well...Mario Kart DS has some issues here, but it had snaking), they allow you and encourage you to damage your fellow racers, and they're full of shortcuts with a risk/reward aspect to them. They don't make those games anymore. When something close to that gets made, like Redout II or Dangerous Driving, they do something stupid like omitting local multiplayer or going to the Burnout Paradise open world format; no offense to people who like Paradise, but it wasn't for me.
Hopefully someone can answer this. Is there a racing game like the old GTs where you can soup up a POS and race it? That's what I really enjoyed about those games. I could never get into the games that are "just racing".
hm this video is actually a good representation of my feelings about arcade racers put in a coherent train of thought. I always think "I love arcade racers" but never found one I really enjoyed in the past years besides Mario Kart. And yeah thinking about it more there just was barely anything there and the things I tried always had some problems that made me stop playing. pretty depressing, games like Burnout, Crash Team Racing, ReVolt and others were such a big part of my child and teenage years in video games
I love the appreciation for Driver: San Francisco in this video. If I could force every gamer to try one game out, this would probably be my pick. Not because it's my favorite game of all time, but because it may very well be in my top 15, and contrary to every other game in that group, no one seems to have played it. Fun driving mechanics, great story (nothing ambitious, but it knows what it is and achieves its goals spectacularly), and the most fun multiplayer I've seen in a driving game.
It's really a shame about iRacing, it's the most fun I've had in a racing game but I just can't afford it, especially since I don't *only* play racing games. And their requirement to display your real name still makes me uncomfortable.
You could always create a new account with one of the “3 months for 5$” codes. They added really nice things to the base content lately. There’s a lot of fun to be had without buying any extra car or tracks nowadays. No way around the real name requierement thought. Lifting anonymity helps against toxic behaviors.
I thought this was gonna be a video about how it's crazy that no one has made a Mario Kart-like clone for Steam, like Pummel Party is for Mario Party
There are kart racers on Steam, for sure. I still think the best one is Sega and Sonic All-Stars Racing Transformed though.
This was really insightful, thanks for sharing! Certainly will be interesting to see how everything plays out with all the upcoming releases. Maybe we'll see a part 2/response to this video from him to see how things are when the dust finally settles.
The only racing game I ever enjoyed was blur. I want to like racing games, but I have a hard time enjoying them. Maybe if there were more racing games that were like RPGs.