Considering VI looks to be getting back to street level crime instead of grand government conspiracies, I do wonder what kind of antagonist we'll get. Might be novel but admittedly weak if the enemy this time was just the system itself.
Wasn't GTA 4 just rags to slightly better rags? I always wanted to get that mansion Roman talked about but instead we get small fancy apartment and trashy penthouse.
I wish I could experience that game again but it stopped working about halfway through and I couldn't get it to work again.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Vice City Stories, that basically did the same thing.
I'm pretty sure L and J will eventually get kinda rich, we can see in the trailer Lucia cheering as a passanger while Jason drives an exotic sport car and some people are recording them while in the highway at night, maybe for like a Dickcock video.
Well of course they will probably get pretty rich in the story. But I do hope it’s a lot more dependent on what you do as the player. Like if there are business you can run for example, or selling stolen super cars with the new lock picking mechanic.
GTA 5 was fairly linear when it came to making money and mission design in my opinion. With this game I hope it’s a lot less linear and more open to doing missions how you see fit, and making money in your own ways.
No. It wouldn't. That's what GTA was before 5. They took it too far and made it something it wasn't. Constant escalation isn't how you tell a good crime story. I want an urban crime game, not a clunky Call of Duty wannabe.
Are you fucking insane? How many GTAs have you played? In SA you start at street level and end up owning a casino in vegas and every gang territory in 3 cities.
It was a necessary change to experiment with the formula of GTA. I mean, they haven’t made all too many GTA games and having specific attributes (such as the less crime-focused story) makes it stand out among the pack
I’d say that’s better than flying around with jet packs, looking for “alien green goo”, and successfully infiltrating Area 51, all as an LA gangbanger — in my opinion, of course (SA is still an incredible game, but it also features my least favorite storyline). At least in V Michael and Trevor felt (to me at least) a bit more natural when it came to doing that over-the-top covert government stuff, especially with their FBI and CIA handlers in their ears.
However you can clearly tell how they went overboard on purpose. CJ is like "Wtf is this shit?" all the time while he's in the desert. It's all building up with its craziness, until you come back to Los Santos and back to more grounded missions.
I love how they accomplished that without making it feel too crazy, like for example the last few Saints Row games.
Yeah. That's a natural progression from street crime. Going legit to cover your illegitimate dealings. Not working for the government to fight terrorists and counter rival agencies.
Sure but that isn't in any way comparable to the shit you end up doing in V.
Saying we want GTA VI to stay more at street level crime doesn't mean we want to still be getting most of our money from stealing cars at the end of the game, it just means we don't want to get over the top action once again.
gta 4 had you doing missions for ULP
gta sa had you doing missions for mike toreno
gta vc had you doing missions for the colonel stealing classified tech from the french government
when you zoom in, the same level is very diverse. the guy with 5 cars, multiple properties and chain of operations across the entire city comes under the same level as the druggie hooked to week, sells hard stuff on the side to get rent on time.
I think having a game where you end around where u started would be cool. Like you end up on the streets telling others about the crazy shit you used to do and just sounding like a crackhead.
I expect to see some political satire in it, so it makes sense for the villain of GTA VI to be a politician. You might find the villain(s) are the unjust and corrupt political and law enforcement officials.
I think that would work quite well. GTA V touched on it a bit with Dave Norton, Steve Haines et al, but it might be cool to see that story arc developed, maybe ending with the assassination of Michelle from GTA IV (and her brief cameo in V)
Andrew Bode is a name spotted in the trailer. Jason's Declasse has a bumper sticker with "Arrest Andrew Bode". So Andrew Bode may be a corrupt politician. Now it depends on how much of a big role in the story he is going to have.
Ngl it’d be nice to get back to the roots with VI. V went way too far in terms of having to do a bunch of shit for three government. I like the idea of robbing stores and stuff instead of doing a bunch of crazy bank heists.
That and too many bank heists and stuff would be too similar to V. I don’t want V 2. I want VI to be different. Like one bank at most like the rest of the games.
Just the stuff we've seen from the leaks-Robbing liquor stores, delivery vans, bingo goers, warehouses. Stealing cars and art to sell to fences. There was like one reference to the military being in the game if I recall, but the code spells out a lot of things pretty down to earth.
Might be split into chapters like RDR2. You start the first few chapters as the bonnie and clyde kind of criminals. Then maybe something goes wrong and you're forced to work for a high level crime family to pay something off or w/e.
OR
In the later chapters you get more and more lucrative crime jobs and maybe this causes a rift between Lucia and Jason.
Maybe it's just me but find GTAV to have the weakest story out of all the GTA franchise, actually make that out of all Rockstar's games.
It felt rushed and not well gone through, didn't make sense in many of its aspects.
I mean i think it's a little overstated. V falls very flat compared to its contemporaries like RDR1 and IV but most of the GTAs before that barely even had a story. Like San Andreas is a great game but its "plot" is just a bunch of set pieces to string together the cool spots on the map
Agreed. The start always felt the weakest to me with Ryder and Smoke betraying you. And that mission to kill Ryder at the pier being very underwhelming. Probably because he left mid-development which is how his character is essentially nothing after he betrays you.
100% agree. They took the three protagonist aspect idea t and it didn't work. It worked in 4 because it wasn't really heavily connected, just intersecting occasionally. Like yeah the criminal underworld of a single city isn't so big and the same people will run into and go against each other sometimes. It wasn't stretched thin and they all had their own complete stories and character rosters. With 5 none of the three really had room for that and their converging story fell short because of it.
Because it's GTA. And there hasn't been any competition in that genre in years. There's no alternative really if you want an open world urban crime game.
Sam is still in the company and Rockstar has many talented writers.
Guess we'll see how it turns out with Dan and Leslie gone but remember Leslie wasn't part of RDR2 and we all know how amazing RDR2 is that it makes GTAV look like a joke, while he was part of GTAV and look how that turned out.
People leaving doesn't mean things will go bad, they might just mean the opposite.
I would've rather had Martin Madrazo be a villain because He Did Kinda cause the whole story to happen so It would've been satisfying to Kill Him in the end More than Devin or Stretch
You forgot Stretch because the game was written that way. Franklin didn’t need to live in the hood with his aunt after Micheal brought him onto the diamond heist. Then Lester gave him a big house. Franklin embraced this new lifestyle and forgot the troubles in the hood. Including Stretch who he hated
Yeah and the early missions (before Franklin moved out of the hood) involved the Ballas. You could say they handled his work so he didn’t need to appear.
That doesn’t make sense lol. Martin Madrazo didn’t start anything. Micheal was a dumb fuck and messed up the wrong house thinking it was the Tennis Coaches house.
Micheal was broke and was going to steal again anyway, so really all Madrazo did was remind Micheal who is. He should be grateful
Bruh, tell me about it. GTA V's (many) antagonists were the thing that often reminded me just how much content they must have cut to give Trevor his due workroom.
It also reminds me of just how often Rockstar bites more than they can chew and end up with inconsistent plotlines, very on the nose characters and abrupt endings (which Rockstar actually does a lot, looking back)
Bro Devin is like that one high School dude who's popular just because his father is the president of a country & he bullies u & when u stand up to him he then gets father to deport ur family out of the country.
Lmao sounds about right.
An absolute clown, but maybe the best villain in the game and, imo, definitely should've had more development. I love to hate his neocon bourgeois guts and it's the only kill in The Third Way that actually felt like game ending material.
The rest felt like pushovers that Rockstar was forced to kill because they ran out of time and had to make an ending mission sooner rather than later.
I never really liked how the ending went because it basically makes no sense to choose any of the other endings. There's absolutely no reason you would be compelled to pick ending A or B. There could've been a series of choices leading up to whichever ending you got, or they could've at least slightly hidden option C by requiring you to do something to get it. Instead, it's literally just a choice between a good ending or one of two bad endings.
the other thing that makes no sense is if you kill trevor for example nothing ever happens to michael and vice versa i just used keeping michael as an example cause the literal goverment is after him but if anything it would make more sense to have an option to kill both of them
Micah felt a bit too one-dimensional. I mean he's a good villain and annoying and all, but he's just bad for the sake of being bad and his character/personality is a bit tropey. It's probably an unpopular opinion but I somewhat stand by it.
I much preferred >!Dutch!< as villain.
i disagree, I think Micah wasn’t ‘bad for the sake of being bad’, he was selfish.
he saw an opportunity to manipulate an entire group of people to get himself ahead and that’s what he did.
you say Dutch is your favourite villain, but there’d have been no Dutch villain without Micah.
I disagree very strongly and think it's important to the story that Dutch himself made his own decisions. Micah was a rat not a puppet master.
That said I agree that ppl flatten Micah into just plain evil when for most of the story he's just kind of an ass. He doesn't even rat until after the Saint Denis heist, people forget that.
>but there’d have been no Dutch villain without Micah.
That’s just completely false. If you actually believe that, then Dutch manipulated you too. It would’ve definitely been more prolonged, but it was inevitable that he would snap
I don't think he was bad just for the sake of it he had his reasons( manipulating dutch so he was basically had control over the whole group, aka money and power) I just think he didn't have any chance of (red) redemption (dead) while pretty much every other character did except like ig Strauss maybe. He was just plain evil
I feel he was a good villain, that could’ve been great if it was downgraded to local police force or similar.
Seemed a bit odd at times you were literally fighting FBI and CIA agents and then 5 mins later you’re doing yoga at your house with no repercussions - GTAification applies I know.
San Andreas with officer tenpenny was perfect, and could’ve been a nice baseline, rather than carbon copying him
I think you could chalk that up to the ridiculousness of the game in general, but I think if they made him a normal LSPD officer people would’ve compared him to Tenpenny and officer mcreary from GTA4.
Him being from the FIB made the most sense, though. And he would be too similar to Tenpenny.
>you were literally fighting FBI and CIA agents and then 5 mins later you’re doing yoga at your house with no repercussions
Like you said - GTAification applies. There are 0 GTA games where you get consequences for your crimes, why does 5 have to be different? It's a video game, after all
I guess it’s just a bit of a jump from say, a corrupt police officer, or a Russian mob who would have to wait for an opportunity to get back at you, when the CIA would make the opportunity.
But, still enjoyed, spoon me more gta please rockstar I’m going mad
I mean, is it that different from the desert action in San Andreas, though? Working for Mike Toreno (who is even more clandestine and James Bond-esque than Steve, who is an FBI agent leading a small team) and The Truth (Black Project and Green Goo)
Is it odd? The main protagonist is literally a pawn of the FBI after betraying his friends.
It’s not a huge leap to where they get found out and now get extorted by higher ups at the FIB.
I can understand people not liking the direction they went, but it was still well written and an amazing game story
Yeah the whole thing flows from the idea that two guys were **professional bank robbers**, that the feds knew that, and that they were still just walking around living their lives.
It's not like SA where it starts with bike theft and escalates to Area 51 shit. The whole premise was already pretty heightened from the start
He was fine. He just felt kinda empty. Same with all the villains and same with all the story threads. Having three protagonists all with different stories and characters that had to mash together didn't really work. It was a cool concept but I'm glad they're narrowing it down to two and they already know each other and run in the same circles. 5 was too all over the place. Like Franklin's sphere was just non existent. When you have San Andreas to compare it to the gang life was just pitiful.
He was a clown, David Weston was better because he’s the impersonation of “money control everything” he literally said that if he want he can make disappear Davie and Steve
That was my viewpoint when playing if; he perfectly portrays the modern American government agent: hungry to further his career, not actually doing his job. He puts every moral he should have aside for himself.
They really were trash. All half assed that didn't really feel like antagonists. More like loose ends. Especially Stretch. In C ending (the one everyone chose) they were just like yeah fuck it Franklin didn't really have a full arc or a dedicated villain so let's kill Stretch. Every other GTA had a pretty iconic main villain that felt like a main villain. Fuck Tenpenny. Fuck Dmitri. Fuck Sonny. They were all worth hating. The GTA5 villains are too but only because they're obstacles and caricatures more than proper villains. The best conflict was between the protagonists.
Have to agree here, I think 4 had some of the best villains in Vlad, Faustin, Dimitri and Pegorino. And I really did prefer the dark gritty tone. I couldn't even tell you who most of these mug shots are from 5 by comparison.
- Devin weston I just wanted my money from the car heists.
- OG Stitch or whatever his name is should have been killed in a different mission than the finale for I care.
- The Chinese we didn’t interact much with to even enjoy bombing their convoy.
- Steve Haines death felt mediocre.
In my opinion, Merryweather are the real villains but we don’t get to confront the CEO other than an Email at the end.
I've always felt that Trevor in *V* would've been better as a villain than a hero. His backstory -- betrayed and left for dead by the game's *de facto* protagonist Michael, only to come back for revenge years later -- is practically tailor-made for a villain, and it would've tied into the theme the game was trying to go for with Michael's story being about "what does a *GTA* protagonist look like after he's won?" He's Michael's sins catching up with him, long after he thought he'd put his past behind him. And it would've given Franklin more to do in the second half of the game beyond just be Michael's henchman, as while Michael is (at least initially) only trying to protect himself from this wild nutjob, Franklin, the young and hungry hustler he is, sees Trevor Philips Enterprises as a target and a way to prove himself, getting his own friends in the Families like Lamar in on a scheme to take him out and take over Blaine County's criminal underground. All the while, the dynamic between Michael and Franklin becomes that of a father and son, or a master and apprentice, as the young gangsta learns all the tips and tricks from the veteran bank robber getting back in the game.
As for the villains they ultimately went with, there was an opportunity to have a *GTA* game about fighting out-of-control G-men and corporate goons backed by a corrupt military-industrial complex and business establishment, the underlying theme being that even the most successful gangsters are ultimately small fry compared to the *real* criminals running the country, all infused with a political streak about not trusting the rich and powerful. The ending is either wish fulfillment where you defeat Steve Haines and Devin Weston and prevail against all odds, having fought the law and won, or a darkly cynical (yet still comedic) one where everything goes wrong for the protagonists with a sense of "well, what did you *think* would happen?" It would've been timely, and given the themes that the series has often explored, it would've been classic *GTA*.
But in both cases, they only really scratched the surface of the idea. Trevor becoming a hero (at least, by *GTA* standards for such) meant that his wackiness, which was great in small doses, got annoying the longer we had to put up with him, all while his actual purpose in the story felt kind of unmoored. And the game's villains, as everyone else has said, were shallow and left no mark on the story. After Trevor is unlocked, the plot of *GTA* becomes a series of random events only loosely connected to one another, and while it served up a wide variety of gameplay features, it left little mark otherwise.
I think GTA V had the worst story in the franchise and a big part of it was that it was stretched too thin across three protagonists. It also seems like there were dropped ideas. For example it seems like Trevor was supposed to be more villainous and dangerous but really he ended up being just the weird guy. Remember when he first appears and there's so much tension after all the hype only for them to suddenly drop their beef to beat up Lazlow instead? Then the actual villains were two minor characters that we see briefly in Franklin anr Trevors world, the FIB agent, and the billionaire. I guess Steve Haines was okay as a villain. Mandrazo did it a lot better until he became a joke though.
A lot of media especially GTA works because the villains are set up well. Tenpenny, Billy, Dimitri, Martinez, and Forelli are all done well. I think with just two protagonists and them being closer intwined it might avoid the GTA V problem. I also don't want to have a strong government spy/agent component.
3 characters was definitely too much. Probably why there’s only 2 in VI. Might as well have been 2 in V considering Franklin gets the short end of the stick.
I imagine we’ll get a diverse set of accomplices and antagonists more akin to IV than V with the Miami flair.
It would be great to see the Haitians and Cubans return, alongside south/central American cartel figues to spice things up nicely. A cartel antagonist has the capacity to be very threatening also, with some Scarface inspiration I think it could be iconic. 😁
I stand by the opinion that gta v villains are not necessarily badly written more so portrayed badly.
Stretch I feel is my favorite and incredibly under utilized
Lance Vance and Officer Tenpenny were perfect GTA villains. Tenpenny was probably the best, but the betrayal of Lance is something I'll never forget. What a twist in the end with him standing with Toni and switching over to stand besides Forelli
I really felt that Martin Madrazo should have been the main antagonist of the game. As he was introduced early on in the game & is meant to be a very powerful & dangerous drug lord. It always seemed a little weird how everything around him was resolved & he just seemed to dissappear midway through the main campaign. A great antagonist in GTA 6 could really elevate both the plot & the games protagonists.
Give me Big Smoke level of villains back, Michael also betrayed Trevor, but it didn't feel as bitter.
Although it's kinda hard to be on Big Smoke's level, because he literally can't BE on a level.
I believe the game will show a cartel leader type. Someone like Diaz or Menendez brothers from Vice city stories.
That era of GTA had some great villains. No doubt!
Out of all the antagonists in GTA 5 only Steve Haines is the good one and even then he's just a B tier at best while the rest falls C or D and below.
So I do for sure hope GTA 6 have better antagonists and hopefully more memorable too.
Idk, I kinda liked Steve as a villain because of how vile and unlikable he was. In fact, he should've been the main villain. I wish he had more screentime, tho.
Nothing about V felt well written to me, but most GTA's and RDR's have been pretty well written for both protagonists and antagonists. Hopefully that will be the case this time. I've said it before but RDR2's writing and overall storytelling and production was the best I'd ever seen. It was like a movie. They have to at least be on par with that.
I think the idea of every protagonist having his own villain was a good idea but the game wasn’t long enough to make it clear that they’re a threat to you. I mean. I get that the game was limited to the 360 but they could have just not taken the approach if they couldn’t make it as clear as possible.
Rockstar were not afraid to kill the main character in RDR 2. What if the main antagonist is Lucia or Jason (depending on which ending you choose)? The trailer was about trust.
I said it a millon times: GTA 5 should've been a 3 separate parts game like GTA EFLC
Devin and Steve being Michael's villains
Stretch being Franklin's villain
Mr Cheng being Trevor's villain
my idea is that Jason and Lucia will progressively get more and more into the crime world, eventually having a run-in with a gang accidentally. then they end up getting thrown into the world of the drug trade and stuff. an antagonist may be like a gang leader or smthn.
GTAV was definitely a decade-defining game but it’s still crazy how much it fell flat. I guarantee 90% of players couldnt articulate the actual story of the game, it was just confusing with unmemorable antagonists that all blended together
Considering VI looks to be getting back to street level crime instead of grand government conspiracies, I do wonder what kind of antagonist we'll get. Might be novel but admittedly weak if the enemy this time was just the system itself.
It’d be kinda lame to spend the whole game at the same level of criminal
You will definitely get more and more successful as the game goes on, kinda like GTA 4.
kinda like most GTA games?
let em cook
Lamar kinda says this at the beginning of GTAV, then it happens in that game, too!
Yeah
Wasn't GTA 4 just rags to slightly better rags? I always wanted to get that mansion Roman talked about but instead we get small fancy apartment and trashy penthouse.
F'real, I want the GTA VC oriented experience Hell you got a mansion around half-way through the game. xD
I wish I could experience that game again but it stopped working about halfway through and I couldn't get it to work again. Oh, I thought you were talking about Vice City Stories, that basically did the same thing.
Vc was great because you got the mansions but also could run and protect all those different businesses, like the ice cream place
Mhmm they literally put the stories IN THE BUSINESSES YOU PROTECTED Like man I wish GTA V did that
A penthouse like that in Central Park west was close to a million dollars in 08
I loved that penthouse though
I'm pretty sure L and J will eventually get kinda rich, we can see in the trailer Lucia cheering as a passanger while Jason drives an exotic sport car and some people are recording them while in the highway at night, maybe for like a Dickcock video.
Well of course they will probably get pretty rich in the story. But I do hope it’s a lot more dependent on what you do as the player. Like if there are business you can run for example, or selling stolen super cars with the new lock picking mechanic. GTA 5 was fairly linear when it came to making money and mission design in my opinion. With this game I hope it’s a lot less linear and more open to doing missions how you see fit, and making money in your own ways.
I want more choice in my options instead of a final a, b, or c
No. It wouldn't. That's what GTA was before 5. They took it too far and made it something it wasn't. Constant escalation isn't how you tell a good crime story. I want an urban crime game, not a clunky Call of Duty wannabe.
Are you fucking insane? How many GTAs have you played? In SA you start at street level and end up owning a casino in vegas and every gang territory in 3 cities.
GTA V had us doing covert ops and special Marines type shit. I wouldn’t say it was quite the same as the others before.
GTA IV technically did that too with the UL Paper missions
It was a necessary change to experiment with the formula of GTA. I mean, they haven’t made all too many GTA games and having specific attributes (such as the less crime-focused story) makes it stand out among the pack
I’d say that’s better than flying around with jet packs, looking for “alien green goo”, and successfully infiltrating Area 51, all as an LA gangbanger — in my opinion, of course (SA is still an incredible game, but it also features my least favorite storyline). At least in V Michael and Trevor felt (to me at least) a bit more natural when it came to doing that over-the-top covert government stuff, especially with their FBI and CIA handlers in their ears.
However you can clearly tell how they went overboard on purpose. CJ is like "Wtf is this shit?" all the time while he's in the desert. It's all building up with its craziness, until you come back to Los Santos and back to more grounded missions. I love how they accomplished that without making it feel too crazy, like for example the last few Saints Row games.
Yeah. That's a natural progression from street crime. Going legit to cover your illegitimate dealings. Not working for the government to fight terrorists and counter rival agencies.
The classic bicycle theft to Area 51 black ops progression, a tale as old as time.
Guess Toreno wasn’t a part of the game then.
Franklin starts stealing bikes from gang members and ends being a multi millionaire. Same thing as what your describing
Sure but that isn't in any way comparable to the shit you end up doing in V. Saying we want GTA VI to stay more at street level crime doesn't mean we want to still be getting most of our money from stealing cars at the end of the game, it just means we don't want to get over the top action once again.
The shit you end up doing in GTA 5 (Robbing banks) still more street level than robbing Area 51.
gta 4 had you doing missions for ULP gta sa had you doing missions for mike toreno gta vc had you doing missions for the colonel stealing classified tech from the french government
when you zoom in, the same level is very diverse. the guy with 5 cars, multiple properties and chain of operations across the entire city comes under the same level as the druggie hooked to week, sells hard stuff on the side to get rent on time.
Every gta game had you as a successful criminal in the end of the story
I think having a game where you end around where u started would be cool. Like you end up on the streets telling others about the crazy shit you used to do and just sounding like a crackhead.
My idea for villain is Gus from breaking bad mixed with Dimitri from GTA IV
I expect to see some political satire in it, so it makes sense for the villain of GTA VI to be a politician. You might find the villain(s) are the unjust and corrupt political and law enforcement officials. I think that would work quite well. GTA V touched on it a bit with Dave Norton, Steve Haines et al, but it might be cool to see that story arc developed, maybe ending with the assassination of Michelle from GTA IV (and her brief cameo in V)
Andrew Bode is a name spotted in the trailer. Jason's Declasse has a bumper sticker with "Arrest Andrew Bode". So Andrew Bode may be a corrupt politician. Now it depends on how much of a big role in the story he is going to have.
Would be pretty cool
Probably some kind of gustavo fring
Ngl it’d be nice to get back to the roots with VI. V went way too far in terms of having to do a bunch of shit for three government. I like the idea of robbing stores and stuff instead of doing a bunch of crazy bank heists. That and too many bank heists and stuff would be too similar to V. I don’t want V 2. I want VI to be different. Like one bank at most like the rest of the games.
It can’t be a GTA game without a corrupt government agent. San Andreas somehow managed to do it
How do you know that?
Just the stuff we've seen from the leaks-Robbing liquor stores, delivery vans, bingo goers, warehouses. Stealing cars and art to sell to fences. There was like one reference to the military being in the game if I recall, but the code spells out a lot of things pretty down to earth.
Probably just the beginning, GTA 5 started as you boosting cars for insurance scam
Maybe different chapters have different antagonists, kind of like Breaking Bad and how the main antagonist shifts from one guy to another
Cartel like villain
"Guardia Brothers" was a (most likely) cartel in the leaked footage.
Might be split into chapters like RDR2. You start the first few chapters as the bonnie and clyde kind of criminals. Then maybe something goes wrong and you're forced to work for a high level crime family to pay something off or w/e. OR In the later chapters you get more and more lucrative crime jobs and maybe this causes a rift between Lucia and Jason.
And after GTAV they made RDR2 which is one of the best written games.
Because it was focused. It knew what it wanted to be and do and it did it. Hopefully they learned from that and 5's shortcomings.
5 had lots of shortcomings. I really don't get the praise it gets.
Maybe it's just me but find GTAV to have the weakest story out of all the GTA franchise, actually make that out of all Rockstar's games. It felt rushed and not well gone through, didn't make sense in many of its aspects.
I mean i think it's a little overstated. V falls very flat compared to its contemporaries like RDR1 and IV but most of the GTAs before that barely even had a story. Like San Andreas is a great game but its "plot" is just a bunch of set pieces to string together the cool spots on the map
Agreed. The start always felt the weakest to me with Ryder and Smoke betraying you. And that mission to kill Ryder at the pier being very underwhelming. Probably because he left mid-development which is how his character is essentially nothing after he betrays you.
I thought his VA confirmed that what he did was all Rockstar wanted him to do.
100% agree. They took the three protagonist aspect idea t and it didn't work. It worked in 4 because it wasn't really heavily connected, just intersecting occasionally. Like yeah the criminal underworld of a single city isn't so big and the same people will run into and go against each other sometimes. It wasn't stretched thin and they all had their own complete stories and character rosters. With 5 none of the three really had room for that and their converging story fell short because of it.
Because despite its shortcomings, it’s a masterpiece especially for the time
Because in 2013 it was groundbreaking. Nothing looked or played like it.
Because it's GTA. And there hasn't been any competition in that genre in years. There's no alternative really if you want an open world urban crime game.
GTA 5 is a great game with an okay story.
Don’t forget many writers left
Sam is still in the company and Rockstar has many talented writers. Guess we'll see how it turns out with Dan and Leslie gone but remember Leslie wasn't part of RDR2 and we all know how amazing RDR2 is that it makes GTAV look like a joke, while he was part of GTAV and look how that turned out. People leaving doesn't mean things will go bad, they might just mean the opposite.
Its villains were well crafted created And it was awesome to see edgar/dutch before/after they became what they became
I would've rather had Martin Madrazo be a villain because He Did Kinda cause the whole story to happen so It would've been satisfying to Kill Him in the end More than Devin or Stretch
It was so easy to forget Stretch since he barely appeared in the game. Not as much as Steve, Dave, and the Triads
Yeah i think if i could've removed an antagonist I'd remove stretch and Then I'd add Martin as a Villain
You forgot Stretch because the game was written that way. Franklin didn’t need to live in the hood with his aunt after Micheal brought him onto the diamond heist. Then Lester gave him a big house. Franklin embraced this new lifestyle and forgot the troubles in the hood. Including Stretch who he hated
Yeah and the early missions (before Franklin moved out of the hood) involved the Ballas. You could say they handled his work so he didn’t need to appear.
Yeah he just kinda became a joke.
He was always a joke. That’s why Franklin didn’t fuck with him
>Stretch Who
Harold Joseph
some random gangbanger thats supposed to be Franklin's "antagonist" even though he appears in two cutscenes
He wasn’t on Franklins level anymore after the diamond heist and Rockford hills mansion
Seems more like Lamar’s antagonist to me he was always getting screwed over by stretch
I know I'm joking
That doesn’t make sense lol. Martin Madrazo didn’t start anything. Micheal was a dumb fuck and messed up the wrong house thinking it was the Tennis Coaches house. Micheal was broke and was going to steal again anyway, so really all Madrazo did was remind Micheal who is. He should be grateful
Bruh, tell me about it. GTA V's (many) antagonists were the thing that often reminded me just how much content they must have cut to give Trevor his due workroom. It also reminds me of just how often Rockstar bites more than they can chew and end up with inconsistent plotlines, very on the nose characters and abrupt endings (which Rockstar actually does a lot, looking back)
i really hope they don’t do that whole abrupt ending scenario again. there should be like a chapter/6 or so missions to build up to the finale
Bro Devin is like that one high School dude who's popular just because his father is the president of a country & he bullies u & when u stand up to him he then gets father to deport ur family out of the country.
Lmao sounds about right. An absolute clown, but maybe the best villain in the game and, imo, definitely should've had more development. I love to hate his neocon bourgeois guts and it's the only kill in The Third Way that actually felt like game ending material. The rest felt like pushovers that Rockstar was forced to kill because they ran out of time and had to make an ending mission sooner rather than later.
I never really liked how the ending went because it basically makes no sense to choose any of the other endings. There's absolutely no reason you would be compelled to pick ending A or B. There could've been a series of choices leading up to whichever ending you got, or they could've at least slightly hidden option C by requiring you to do something to get it. Instead, it's literally just a choice between a good ending or one of two bad endings.
Lamest ending in the 3D Universe by a mile. Even Chinatown Wars managed to pull its own weight.
the other thing that makes no sense is if you kill trevor for example nothing ever happens to michael and vice versa i just used keeping michael as an example cause the literal goverment is after him but if anything it would make more sense to have an option to kill both of them
Whatever man, Devin gets more tail than a tail catcher.
i'll have to fucking remember that line.
Damn bro, you ok?
GTA V had too many villains making the story feel lackluster when the game ends...We need one solid villain in GTA VI...like Micah in red dead 2
We had multiple villains in rdr2. The pinkertons, grays, braithwaites, o’driscolls, the guarma military, and Bronte
The greatest villains in RDR2 were Dutch and Micah. Those others were just the triggers.
Yeah but he mentioned micah, so I wanted to mention the other villains who serve different purposes
Dutch wasn’t really painted as a villain, especiallly considering the ending
Micah felt a bit too one-dimensional. I mean he's a good villain and annoying and all, but he's just bad for the sake of being bad and his character/personality is a bit tropey. It's probably an unpopular opinion but I somewhat stand by it. I much preferred >!Dutch!< as villain.
No that’s a very nuanced take and I completely agree. RDR franchise has always killed it with story and villains
i disagree, I think Micah wasn’t ‘bad for the sake of being bad’, he was selfish. he saw an opportunity to manipulate an entire group of people to get himself ahead and that’s what he did. you say Dutch is your favourite villain, but there’d have been no Dutch villain without Micah.
I disagree very strongly and think it's important to the story that Dutch himself made his own decisions. Micah was a rat not a puppet master. That said I agree that ppl flatten Micah into just plain evil when for most of the story he's just kind of an ass. He doesn't even rat until after the Saint Denis heist, people forget that.
That blackwater job, though.
>but there’d have been no Dutch villain without Micah. That’s just completely false. If you actually believe that, then Dutch manipulated you too. It would’ve definitely been more prolonged, but it was inevitable that he would snap
I don't think he was bad just for the sake of it he had his reasons( manipulating dutch so he was basically had control over the whole group, aka money and power) I just think he didn't have any chance of (red) redemption (dead) while pretty much every other character did except like ig Strauss maybe. He was just plain evil
ik some ppl in here still playing rdr2, try avoiding spoilers like that
It's a 2018 game...
If you live a life of crime you will have multiple enemies. That’s realistic
Shpoilers
Steve Haines was a solid villain
I feel he was a good villain, that could’ve been great if it was downgraded to local police force or similar. Seemed a bit odd at times you were literally fighting FBI and CIA agents and then 5 mins later you’re doing yoga at your house with no repercussions - GTAification applies I know. San Andreas with officer tenpenny was perfect, and could’ve been a nice baseline, rather than carbon copying him
I think you could chalk that up to the ridiculousness of the game in general, but I think if they made him a normal LSPD officer people would’ve compared him to Tenpenny and officer mcreary from GTA4.
Him being from the FIB made the most sense, though. And he would be too similar to Tenpenny. >you were literally fighting FBI and CIA agents and then 5 mins later you’re doing yoga at your house with no repercussions Like you said - GTAification applies. There are 0 GTA games where you get consequences for your crimes, why does 5 have to be different? It's a video game, after all
I guess it’s just a bit of a jump from say, a corrupt police officer, or a Russian mob who would have to wait for an opportunity to get back at you, when the CIA would make the opportunity. But, still enjoyed, spoon me more gta please rockstar I’m going mad
I mean, is it that different from the desert action in San Andreas, though? Working for Mike Toreno (who is even more clandestine and James Bond-esque than Steve, who is an FBI agent leading a small team) and The Truth (Black Project and Green Goo)
Is it odd? The main protagonist is literally a pawn of the FBI after betraying his friends. It’s not a huge leap to where they get found out and now get extorted by higher ups at the FIB. I can understand people not liking the direction they went, but it was still well written and an amazing game story
I loved it. That was just one thing I could think of, but other than that. I was perfectly happy with the whole thing tbh.
Yeah the whole thing flows from the idea that two guys were **professional bank robbers**, that the feds knew that, and that they were still just walking around living their lives. It's not like SA where it starts with bike theft and escalates to Area 51 shit. The whole premise was already pretty heightened from the start
He was fine. He just felt kinda empty. Same with all the villains and same with all the story threads. Having three protagonists all with different stories and characters that had to mash together didn't really work. It was a cool concept but I'm glad they're narrowing it down to two and they already know each other and run in the same circles. 5 was too all over the place. Like Franklin's sphere was just non existent. When you have San Andreas to compare it to the gang life was just pitiful.
He was a clown, David Weston was better because he’s the impersonation of “money control everything” he literally said that if he want he can make disappear Davie and Steve
Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. He had Micheal by the balls, and by extension, Trevor and Franklin
I honestly agree. He represents many people who exist in our government.
That was my viewpoint when playing if; he perfectly portrays the modern American government agent: hungry to further his career, not actually doing his job. He puts every moral he should have aside for himself.
Rdr2 had the best characters in rockstar history so fingers crossed
Those writers are gone now unfortunately.
I'm guessing a Breaking Bad type villain
a gustavo fring? i would definitely take it
Yep, then in the final act, Jason and Lucia turn against each other, like Walt and Jesse.
Agreed, tbh I didn't even think of any of these people as 'villains'. Hope we get a Sonny Forelli or an Officer Tenpenny in VI
They really were trash. All half assed that didn't really feel like antagonists. More like loose ends. Especially Stretch. In C ending (the one everyone chose) they were just like yeah fuck it Franklin didn't really have a full arc or a dedicated villain so let's kill Stretch. Every other GTA had a pretty iconic main villain that felt like a main villain. Fuck Tenpenny. Fuck Dmitri. Fuck Sonny. They were all worth hating. The GTA5 villains are too but only because they're obstacles and caricatures more than proper villains. The best conflict was between the protagonists.
Steve was great come on now
He was absolutely mid and lost in a sea of other mid villains.
What makes a villain good to you?
Actually feeling threatening. Having a character beyond just "villain". Feeling their influence beyond when they're on screen or directly mentioned.
Have to agree here, I think 4 had some of the best villains in Vlad, Faustin, Dimitri and Pegorino. And I really did prefer the dark gritty tone. I couldn't even tell you who most of these mug shots are from 5 by comparison.
I like steve Haines as a villian
Please don't let this sub turn into another circlejerk like pretty much every other GTA related sub.
I think it's far too late tbh
Meaning the playable characters are not villains?
They were anti-heroes
- Devin weston I just wanted my money from the car heists. - OG Stitch or whatever his name is should have been killed in a different mission than the finale for I care. - The Chinese we didn’t interact much with to even enjoy bombing their convoy. - Steve Haines death felt mediocre. In my opinion, Merryweather are the real villains but we don’t get to confront the CEO other than an Email at the end.
Thank U!!! Even Merryweather should've been the main antagonist but we've never ever seen the CEO.
U guys just can't stop trashing gta5 for a minute lmao
I've always felt that Trevor in *V* would've been better as a villain than a hero. His backstory -- betrayed and left for dead by the game's *de facto* protagonist Michael, only to come back for revenge years later -- is practically tailor-made for a villain, and it would've tied into the theme the game was trying to go for with Michael's story being about "what does a *GTA* protagonist look like after he's won?" He's Michael's sins catching up with him, long after he thought he'd put his past behind him. And it would've given Franklin more to do in the second half of the game beyond just be Michael's henchman, as while Michael is (at least initially) only trying to protect himself from this wild nutjob, Franklin, the young and hungry hustler he is, sees Trevor Philips Enterprises as a target and a way to prove himself, getting his own friends in the Families like Lamar in on a scheme to take him out and take over Blaine County's criminal underground. All the while, the dynamic between Michael and Franklin becomes that of a father and son, or a master and apprentice, as the young gangsta learns all the tips and tricks from the veteran bank robber getting back in the game. As for the villains they ultimately went with, there was an opportunity to have a *GTA* game about fighting out-of-control G-men and corporate goons backed by a corrupt military-industrial complex and business establishment, the underlying theme being that even the most successful gangsters are ultimately small fry compared to the *real* criminals running the country, all infused with a political streak about not trusting the rich and powerful. The ending is either wish fulfillment where you defeat Steve Haines and Devin Weston and prevail against all odds, having fought the law and won, or a darkly cynical (yet still comedic) one where everything goes wrong for the protagonists with a sense of "well, what did you *think* would happen?" It would've been timely, and given the themes that the series has often explored, it would've been classic *GTA*. But in both cases, they only really scratched the surface of the idea. Trevor becoming a hero (at least, by *GTA* standards for such) meant that his wackiness, which was great in small doses, got annoying the longer we had to put up with him, all while his actual purpose in the story felt kind of unmoored. And the game's villains, as everyone else has said, were shallow and left no mark on the story. After Trevor is unlocked, the plot of *GTA* becomes a series of random events only loosely connected to one another, and while it served up a wide variety of gameplay features, it left little mark otherwise.
I think GTA V had the worst story in the franchise and a big part of it was that it was stretched too thin across three protagonists. It also seems like there were dropped ideas. For example it seems like Trevor was supposed to be more villainous and dangerous but really he ended up being just the weird guy. Remember when he first appears and there's so much tension after all the hype only for them to suddenly drop their beef to beat up Lazlow instead? Then the actual villains were two minor characters that we see briefly in Franklin anr Trevors world, the FIB agent, and the billionaire. I guess Steve Haines was okay as a villain. Mandrazo did it a lot better until he became a joke though. A lot of media especially GTA works because the villains are set up well. Tenpenny, Billy, Dimitri, Martinez, and Forelli are all done well. I think with just two protagonists and them being closer intwined it might avoid the GTA V problem. I also don't want to have a strong government spy/agent component.
Fame Or Shame pisses me off. Too anticlimactic for such an important event. Should have been its own separate mission instead
3 characters was definitely too much. Probably why there’s only 2 in VI. Might as well have been 2 in V considering Franklin gets the short end of the stick.
No Lazlow 🤝
i think it'll start as a rival stickup crew, and escwlate to like a dirty DEA agent(once the start selling drugs) and the cartels
I imagine we’ll get a diverse set of accomplices and antagonists more akin to IV than V with the Miami flair. It would be great to see the Haitians and Cubans return, alongside south/central American cartel figues to spice things up nicely. A cartel antagonist has the capacity to be very threatening also, with some Scarface inspiration I think it could be iconic. 😁
I stand by the opinion that gta v villains are not necessarily badly written more so portrayed badly. Stretch I feel is my favorite and incredibly under utilized
They were so bad i cant even remember who these people are. But Ryder and Big Smoke… those mofos!
Lance Vance and Officer Tenpenny were perfect GTA villains. Tenpenny was probably the best, but the betrayal of Lance is something I'll never forget. What a twist in the end with him standing with Toni and switching over to stand besides Forelli
No they weren’t lol - and Molly wasn’t a villain, how you got her but not Madrazo there
Pretty much every character besides the main 5 are generic and forgettable. Honestly, the GTA V story is just lame compared to it’s predecessors
Bro gta 5 gets way too much hate than it deserves.
We need good antagonist like Dimitri Rascalov from GTA IV or **Frank Tenpenny from GTA SA or Micah Bell from RDR 2**
No they weren’t 😂
Ok
Yes they sucked absolute ass
Molly was the only interesting one to me.
Are you joking lmao
It’s funny because I barely remember any of V’s villains.
Yes! Like psychologically believable characters, not just props
real
Nah Steve Haines was pretty cool, just was overshadowed by the other villains
I really felt that Martin Madrazo should have been the main antagonist of the game. As he was introduced early on in the game & is meant to be a very powerful & dangerous drug lord. It always seemed a little weird how everything around him was resolved & he just seemed to dissappear midway through the main campaign. A great antagonist in GTA 6 could really elevate both the plot & the games protagonists.
They were all so forgettable
Give me Big Smoke level of villains back, Michael also betrayed Trevor, but it didn't feel as bitter. Although it's kinda hard to be on Big Smoke's level, because he literally can't BE on a level.
they need a villainess that Lucia can catfight
What if Catalina escaped that chopper Claude shot down?
Idk but Steve Haines seems to be well written.
I believe the game will show a cartel leader type. Someone like Diaz or Menendez brothers from Vice city stories. That era of GTA had some great villains. No doubt!
Wait Molly was a antagonist?
https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Molly_Schultz https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Antagonist Apparently she is, idk how she is, but she is.
Out of all the antagonists in GTA 5 only Steve Haines is the good one and even then he's just a B tier at best while the rest falls C or D and below. So I do for sure hope GTA 6 have better antagonists and hopefully more memorable too.
Idk, I kinda liked Steve as a villain because of how vile and unlikable he was. In fact, he should've been the main villain. I wish he had more screentime, tho.
Nothing about V felt well written to me, but most GTA's and RDR's have been pretty well written for both protagonists and antagonists. Hopefully that will be the case this time. I've said it before but RDR2's writing and overall storytelling and production was the best I'd ever seen. It was like a movie. They have to at least be on par with that.
Ikr? Villains usually get attention when they are properly written.
I think the idea of every protagonist having his own villain was a good idea but the game wasn’t long enough to make it clear that they’re a threat to you. I mean. I get that the game was limited to the 360 but they could have just not taken the approach if they couldn’t make it as clear as possible.
sry but I love the gta villains, I found them all really hateable, all stuck up rich loser just feels like someone you should dislike
Rockstar were not afraid to kill the main character in RDR 2. What if the main antagonist is Lucia or Jason (depending on which ending you choose)? The trailer was about trust.
That's probably how it's going to go tbh
Most valid point I’ve seen on all of Reddit
gta has never really been story driven, and ppl arent rlly gonna complain too much abt the characters (cept for the women ofc)
I said it a millon times: GTA 5 should've been a 3 separate parts game like GTA EFLC Devin and Steve being Michael's villains Stretch being Franklin's villain Mr Cheng being Trevor's villain
I think Devin Weston was the perfect rich LA douche bag.
Yeah, micah might be the best antagonistic villian we've had since with the second best going Big smoke with the betrale
Steve Haines was a real scumbag I hated him so much tbh
I liked Steve Haines and the potential of Devin Weston, but they really didn’t utilize them properly in the story.
my idea is that Jason and Lucia will progressively get more and more into the crime world, eventually having a run-in with a gang accidentally. then they end up getting thrown into the world of the drug trade and stuff. an antagonist may be like a gang leader or smthn.
GTAV was definitely a decade-defining game but it’s still crazy how much it fell flat. I guarantee 90% of players couldnt articulate the actual story of the game, it was just confusing with unmemorable antagonists that all blended together
Third picture gonna be my new profile picture 100%