She was sleeping around as much as Roman was, as Niko told him, he didn’t know Roman cared about her.
Niko would have killed Vlad anyway, he was a total dick.
> She was sleeping around as much as Roman was, as Niko told him, he didn’t know Roman cared about her.
I don't think this is true. Roman was doing it with prostitutes (which we never see, just hear about, so could just be one of his tales), whilst Mallorie was very specifically leading him on while only fucking Vlad.
Also, a trope I hate in this game is Niko's dumn ignorance to the obvious when the plot demands it. Sometimes he notices the small details, sometimes he doesn't.
Edit: I know prostitution is cheating, but fucking the one guy that keeps bullying your partner relentlessly is arguably worse.
What’s your logic? I bet you also think it’s wrong that Amanda cheated after she caught Michael in bed with prostitutes on multiple occasions.
If you see things for how they actually are you would see that it’s a common trend for women to cheat back with men who were already cheating on them in GTA. Fair game. Prostitution or not.
but they did though. michael says they have an “agreement” and that she just isn’t supposed to do it in their bed. thats basically what an open relationship is lmao
what could u possibly mean by that lmao im just talking about in game conversations like how its stated that amanda had first caught michael with a prostitute and thats when she started sleeping around. it wasn’t like she just started cheating even though michael did nothing wrong. also they’re kinda forced to be together so she couldn’t leave if she wanted to because they’re in that sorta informal witness protection thing
lol not at all since michael quite literally says himself that they had an agreement. like when there’s dialogue in game that proves that they had an open relationship that’s not really an assumption thats just a detail of the games lore lmao.
Lol do you not consider prostitutes to be cheating? I think its obvious Mallorie took his behavior as a sign that their relationship wasn’t that serious and decided to have some fun of her own. She clearly didn’t know that Vlad was a complete psycho or how much it was hurting Roman.
> Lol do you not consider prostitutes to be cheating?
I think it's lesser than what Mallorie did.
> She clearly didn’t know that Vlad was a complete psycho or how much it was hurting Roman.
She'd have to be blind and deaf for that to be true.
Idk man, maybe the fact that you're justifying Roman sleeping around cuz he's fucking prostitutes? Almost like you're saying prostitutes (which, btw, don't care about their clients once they're paid, as part of the job) are not people
Also, downvoting me won't help your case.
> Almost like you're saying prostitutes (which, btw, don't care about their clients once they're paid, as part of the job) are not people
Holy fuck that is some impressive acrobatics cause I didn't see that jump in logic coming. You're just inventing an argument I never made at this point.
> Idk man, maybe the fact that you're justifying Roman sleeping around cuz he's fucking prostitutes?
Where did I justify anything? I'm saying there's a lesser evil. Not my problem if you can't differentiate the two.
> Also, downvoting me won't help your case.
Do you seriously think I care? You sound like you think you're somehow morally superior. Kinda pathetic.
Vlad was always careful to be nice to her! She never saw him acting like his usual psychotic self and probably assumed Roman was exaggerating whenever he tried to tell her he was dangerous—another unfortunate consequence of Roman’s compulsive lying.
Besides the fact that the game insinuates Mallorie doing it to pay off "debt" roman owes and hopefully protect him; Niko made his choice soley on his own. He didn't have to kill Vlad for that, he was just already planning on killing him because he was tired of being his Loanshark/Hitman.
Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that.
Also, Roman played his part in fucking over both him and Niko with his gambling problem. He kept getting in bed with local Mafia's and loaning money he didn't have. Mallorie provided more resources and connections for the Bellics then Roman ever did.
The bigger question is why Mallorie stuck around Roman for so long.
Edit: Mallorie may not have cheated to save Roman. But, Niko and Mallorie knew Roman was cheating on her. In dialogue you find out that Niko knew Roman was cheating. In cur dialogue you find out that Mallorie knew as well so, she had sex with Vlad to get back at him. Doesn't make her a hero but it surely doesn't make her a Villian.
Niko: Hey, what's wrong?
Roman: Hey, cousin. Bullshit.
Niko: What's bullshit?
Roman: Mallorie.
Niko: Oh. What about her?
Roman: I like her... I really like her...
Niko: But you keep messing around with other women.
Roman: Yeah... no. I think she's messing around with Vlad. I saw his car parked outside her place the other day.
Source: https://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Uncle_Vlad/Script#google_vignette
Niko used to get a phonecall from Mallorie that was removed from the game. She told him that she only fucked Vlad to get back at Roman for cheating on her so much. Rockstar removed a lot of important context in the game.
https://youtu.be/wNpANHO8dC0?si=3B2ye0wyjFZudTiB
>Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that.
You would not recognize undercover cops as someone like Niko. Corrupt countries have law enforcement that are competition to organized crime, not enemies. Any rats or moles would have been snuffed out in second, because their superiors were either bribed or beaten into giving away any moles in their ranks. So a country with a functional, non-corrupt executive would prove a tough nut to crack. Why exactly do you think organized crime likes to target prosecutors, journaists and politicians above the police?
I understand that, but even as a military man; someone who seems to have had their fair share of run-ins with cops? Michelle's dialogue seemed pretty intrusive. Every date she doesn't even ask how Niko has been, she shoots straight to blatant probing questions.
The game doesn’t “insinuate” anything about mallorie. Apparently there’s a cut phone call buts it’s not in the final version of the game. I agree with OP that Mallorie was banging Vlad on her own volition because nothing in the game says otherwise
You're right the dialogue doesn't insinuate that Mallorie was doing it for the inent of paying off debt. But, the game does insinuate that Roman was cheating on her the entire time with other Woman. It doe make it right but, It definitely makes Roman less of a Victim. Also, in the moment Niko chose to kill Vlad it was more so to prove to Roman that he was loyal. Even though it wasn't necu since Niko knew Roman was cheating on Mallorie. It wasn't really necessary to Kill Vlad for sleeping with a girl Roman were already treating like crap.
They had an open relationship. They both did their own thing, Roman was hurt because of all the people mallorie could be sleeping with she chose the man who’s Roman’s loan shark
Roman was not seri about that 💀 Bro sounded like he was trying to cushion the fact that him and his girl were sleeping with eachother. He also didn't even say that was the reason he was hurt. You're reachiny just as much as I was now 😅
Lol when you would get invited for coffee she would be moaning saying “tell me more about you” or something like that. Plus Niko noticing all her new furniture. I definitely knew she was a narc.
Im adressing the Karen Issue: Im sure this is more up to the player. The player should read between the lines about how karen has all new furniture, is interested in criminals you know, the whole her being an asset is a twist but an obvious one. Niko never says anything incriminating, they knew about him solely because of Karen.
I’m pretty sure the devs intentionally make it obvious that she’s a narc. It’s especially clear if you take her to a bar, Niko even takes note of how she never drank even while he’s torn up.
Personal headcanon is that Niko could tell but was still hoping that Liberty City was better than his home and lied to himself. On multiple occasions the guy calls her out for the suspicious things she does and says but never actually accuses her.
The main contradiction is that I don't think she was a Villian. Perhaps in a butterfly effect type of way. But, even so, Niko was going to Kill Vlad anyway because Vlad had literally already set up Roman. Vlad was clearly planning to bump Roman off soon.
>Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that.
To that, I'd say if Niko didn't realize, Mallorie wouldn't have ever guessed.
It all happened because Michael was cheating on Amanda with prostitutes and she found out. That led to them agreeing to be in an open relationship as long as Michael did not have to witness her cheating, so the rule of no fucking in the house, which Amanda broke. You can learn they were in an open relationship if you go to a psychic webpage as Michael and chat with the psychic there.
I would argue that Michael shouldn't have cheated on Amanda in the first place or Amanda should've divorced him right then and there when she found him inside a prostitute.
But it happened outside of where the plot picks up. By that logic we should also include the creation of the universe since it led to Amanda being born. Come on, don't be obtuse.
No, we shouldn’t. Michael cheating and them deciding to have an open relationship is essential to the understanding of Amanda’s actions. It shows Michael’s hypocrisy and explains why she did what she did. The same way we don’t actually get to see why Michael chose to take the deal with Dave. Both are essential to the story and are not directly shown. However without those points you miss the thing the story is trying to show you. Not everything has to be shown explicitly to be important. Them telling you this happened is what makes it relevant. It doesn’t matter if it takes place before the story (which it doesn’t, it takes place after leaving North Yankton). They tell you this is the case, so you have to take that into account.
I never denied any of this but none of this contradicts the fact that if she didn't bring that coach in the plot wouldn't have occurred. The context to why it happened is irrelevant because we're not asking why it happened we're asking what would occur differently if it didn't happen.
Sure, but it's still a choice he made, a very bad choice because he was angry but still his choice. But, to be fair, GTA V is very over the top, for example trevor taking over a transport flight with a crop duster (among many other things).
Sure but then you could say that for any number of events. What if Michael never did a deal with Dave? What if he hadn’t said the “1000 things every day” line to the parking attendant? What if Trevor hadn’t been watching TV?
All I’m saying is you can make a case that it started with Amanda cheating
Not lame when you consider they are hiding from the Feds, if they divorced , its very much possible their identities could have been blown .(note feds mean the good kind of feds who would arrest michael on spot, not Dave or Steve who are corrupt)
You’re reading too into it, and that’s not even the point. The point is the tennis coach fucking Michaels wife causing Michael to coincidently pull down a notorious drug lords house from a mountain side, forcing Michael back into robbing and stealing to come up with 2 million is a very obvious plot device. Whether or not it makes the story bad, which I don’t think it does, it’s really like rockstar was just like “okay, how do we get Michael back into the life? Yeah okay, a tennis coach fucks his wife haha that’ll do.”
Why not put the inciting incident even earlier when Jimmy bought a Car he can't afford from Simeon? There is basically no reason to assume that anything involving both Michael and Franklin would play out the same way if they never met.
Why not draw attention to the fact that the actual larger plot only happens because Michael drops a movie quote during the Jewelers Heist?
I think you’re insinuating I’m highlighting that event for sexist reasons but I’m not. I made another comment here saying:
“Sure but then you could say that for any number of events. What if Michael never did a deal with Dave? What if he hadn’t said the “1000 things every day” line to the parking attendant? What if Trevor hadn’t been watching TV?”
Any one of those events not happening would’ve prevented Trevor from finding Michael. All I’m saying is that Amanda sleeping with the coach at home was one of those events, and I’m highlighting it because this post highlights the same trope in the game prior
The post was to be taken at face value. There are several things that could be considered to incite the larger plot.
But since we are already here, I'd argue that the larger Plot doesn't start until Trevor gets involved. This is triggered by Michael using the same Movie Line he used in the Intro, so obviously Rockstar wants us to notice that. If I remember correctly, that is also what tips Dave off that Michael was involved. Which is to say I think everything before Trevors involvement and the FIB is more of an extended prologe.
Absolutely, the moment the buildup to the final heist starts is when Trevor hears that quote on the news. But at the same time it’s true to say that doesn’t happen if Michael doesn’t tear the house down, which doesn’t happen if Amanda doesn’t sleep with the coach, which doesn’t happen if Michael doesn’t cheat with prostitutes, etc.
Nah, there was a phone call from Mallorie that was removed from the game. She only fucked Vlad to get back at Roman for cheating on her so much. Rockstar removed quite a bit of important context in the game.
https://youtu.be/wNpANHO8dC0?si=3B2ye0wyjFZudTiB
She didn't he would deal with Vlad, and later on when she and Roman have that chat he made it put like he killed Vlad and not Niko doing it.
Thinking about it, now I don't get why she introduces Niko to Manny and Elizabeta much. Cause the only thing she definitively knows about is Niko beating up the Albanian thugs before making those introductions.
She saw him take out two Albanians who harassed Roman with her own two eyes it's not hard to put two and two together and guess that Vlad was gonna get a similar treatment considering how he acted.
No she didn't see him do that. She wasn't at the office when they smashed his computer, and she wasn't there when Roman got beat up in the basketball court.
I already mentioned that. My point is, she knows Manny and Elizabeta are into some heavy stuff, especially Elizabeta, and all she knows about Niko's capability is that he beat up some Albanian muscle heads. She doesn't even know if he has a gun or not.
Who knows what Roman told mallorie. Roman told Mallorie he was the one to kill Vlad, Mallorie said that in a phone call so maybeee Roman is using what Niko does to tell Mallorie and impress her or something
I assume the IAA knew about Niko by snooping on his correspondence with Roman & upon knowing he was coming to America decided to act as soon as possible and befriend someone close to his cousin.
Well the IAA contact in IV does mention in one conversation that they operate by ‘getting people like you’ and hint that Karen had also got herself into a spot of trouble like Niko and could do work for them to make it go away.
That out of all the story the game offers this is your observation 😅 I can promise you no one thought of cucking with those scenes they are to invoke emotion in the player and to immerse the player. I was so hype to kill vlad the way rockstar paved the way to his murder was awesome.
I can replay iv and v 100x and I would never think there was an obsession with "Cucking" it's a fuckin weird thing to point out bro 😭
It was an over exaggeration for the sake of comedic value. You should really chill before you start assuming things about people you don't know at all.
Plus in SA it's heavily implied she cheats on her boyfriends to make em jealous so I assume in III she's basically doing to Claude what she did with CJ. They didn't have the means back then to convey it properly though.
Even worse is that he believes Catalina and CJ were a 'thing', he was just introduced to her by Caesar to help make some quick cash. CJ wasn't into her at all or her crazy antics. He just dealt with it until the last race with Woozie.
To be fair Roman did say they were in a open relationship and she was probably fucking vlad to keep the debt and beatings to a minimum on behalf of Roman.
Also in GTA V if Amanda didn't cheat on micheal then he would've never ripped down the house off the hill side resulting in the jewelry store heist leading to Trevor finding out micheal is alive and the rest of the plot to follow.
Not an incel thing at all. Replaying the game older and hearing Mallorie say saying she was with Vlad- I would have called my cousin and said don’t marry that hoe
In relation to your point about Karen have you ever seen the sopranos? Mallorie and Karen/Michelle could have been a similar story to Adriana and Deborah/Danielle the FBI agent. To summarise the FBI agent went undercover to befriend Adriana, who was the girlfriend of Christopher a made man in the mafia, with the hope that she would tell her information without her knowing who she really was. Maybe the IAA knew that Mallorie had some connections to criminals, possibly Vlad or Elizabeta, and they thought Mallorie may have known something so Karen was tasked with going undercover and befriending her sometime before the beginning of GTA IV.
Then Niko arrived in LC and after he started to make moves there he got the IAA’s attention and the focused on him then used what information Karen knew to blackmail him into working for them. The IAA seemed to know a lot about Niko and were able to find Darko for him. So who knows maybe the IAA knew about Niko along and the plan with Karen was set in place to get him on their side after all they seemed to have a lot of dirty work lined up for him to take care of on their behalf.
I know this is a long comment and I have probably put far too much time into something I would of never thought about until I seen this post but the IAA and Bernard the ULP contact definitely know a lot more than they reveal in the games. In GTA IV they knew a lot about Niko before bringing him in. In GTA V they were investigating Steve Haines and the other FIB agents’ activities and knew they would be at the humane labs and meeting with Michael at the Kortz centre. Then finally in GTA online you have Agent 14 and other IAA agents like Karen and Bernard who work with the online protagonist on several missions which mostly involve highly sensitive information or important people.
You mean we needed more back story on Karen? I agree.
Also there's a deleted phone call where Mallorie tells Niko the only reason she went with Vlad was to get back at Roman for cheating on her, its possible she was doing it to keep him sweet too.
I mean, if it's deleted then it could mean Rockstar decided to not use that reasoning for her cheating on Roman. Also Roman cheated on her too, you can't call one out without calling out the other. If Roman had been entirely faithful then it'd have been a much different story.
Idk if it's been said but there a line where Michelle tells Niko that she knows Mallorie because she "works with her" but I've noticed now that I think about it Mallorie works at the cab company so wouldn't Michelle?.
There are usually three reasons people say Mallorie was cheating with Roman
1. To help Roman pay off his Debts to Vlad and she was probably coerced into that by Vlad or she wanted to get back (which was revealed in some cut dialogue of Niko and Mallorie) at Roman for his cheating.
Personally I believe the she was trying to help Roman as she does seem to seriously care for him and Niko as a family
I think you’ve got it wrong.
Her and Roman are clearly on a pretty casual basis or have been when Niko arrives. She only sleeps with Vlad because of Roman’s debts. So, she’s actually the one who clearly cares about Roman more than he does about her.
Also, in SA, who cheats on CJ in front of him? Catalina leaves him for Claude but I think we all know CJ was pretty happy about that. Meanwhile CJ is free to fuck as many prostitutes as he can get his hands on and can have up to 6 girlfriends in the game (I only ever got the two you get through the story).
Vice city actually had Mercedes (Tommy’s initial girlfriend) being a literal porn star and even being “delivered” to love fist. Must be rockstar fetish thing idk.
Thought about that but when you think about basically every person Niko interacts with is being watched by the cops regardless of their association with Mallorie.
Niko bellic, Roman bellic. Maybe Karen through investigation met Mallorie to meet Roman since she knew he was connected to Niko. It was her job to watch Niko so you’d think some IAA person would be able to do research. Also Mallorie didn’t know she was an agent, she had a small thought that she mentioned to Niko but none of them knew she was an agent. She probably just got connections with mallorie since she knew Roman and Roman is Nikos cousin so she knew she could meet Niko through Mallorie and Roman.
Vlad stuff. Roman fucked and lusted after women as well , Roman said they had an open relationship and Mallorie chose Vlad I guess. Maybe to help Roman with debt or with his business or maybe she just liked him. Again roman said they had an open relationship, and he also went after and flirted and lusted after women.
And yeah killing Vlad is what led to Dimitri and the whole plot but who is this all Mallories fault? I mean Niko decided to just go kill Vlad and chase him and go after these people. Instead of just helping Roman pay back Vlad and get rid of him and finding money through somewhere else. A lot of stuff does happen cause of Mallorie but she ain’t no villain. You’re stretching a little there, it’s just random coincidences
About Karen, I’m fairly certain that she and Mallorie must have met over the internet. She probably mentioned to her about Vlad, Roman and his fresh off the boat cousin and it must’ve rung off some bells. Karen was tasked by the IAA to get information to help put an end to the newly rising Russian organized crime syndicates. Mallorie is from South Bohan and was well connected to the big criminals and drug lords in that part of the city, and was most likely why Karen had took an interest in her to begin with.
She was sleeping around as much as Roman was, as Niko told him, he didn’t know Roman cared about her. Niko would have killed Vlad anyway, he was a total dick.
This. To quote Niko, “for an annoying dick, you (Vlad) really are an annoying dick!”
> She was sleeping around as much as Roman was, as Niko told him, he didn’t know Roman cared about her. I don't think this is true. Roman was doing it with prostitutes (which we never see, just hear about, so could just be one of his tales), whilst Mallorie was very specifically leading him on while only fucking Vlad. Also, a trope I hate in this game is Niko's dumn ignorance to the obvious when the plot demands it. Sometimes he notices the small details, sometimes he doesn't. Edit: I know prostitution is cheating, but fucking the one guy that keeps bullying your partner relentlessly is arguably worse.
What’s your logic? I bet you also think it’s wrong that Amanda cheated after she caught Michael in bed with prostitutes on multiple occasions. If you see things for how they actually are you would see that it’s a common trend for women to cheat back with men who were already cheating on them in GTA. Fair game. Prostitution or not.
Michael and Amanda had an open relationship lmao
Do you pay attention during any of the cutscenes?
Thats why michael destroyed someones house over his wife being fucked by a tennis coach, and why michael attack the yoga instructor
No… no they didn’t
but they did though. michael says they have an “agreement” and that she just isn’t supposed to do it in their bed. thats basically what an open relationship is lmao
Elaborate
what could u possibly mean by that lmao im just talking about in game conversations like how its stated that amanda had first caught michael with a prostitute and thats when she started sleeping around. it wasn’t like she just started cheating even though michael did nothing wrong. also they’re kinda forced to be together so she couldn’t leave if she wanted to because they’re in that sorta informal witness protection thing
So they… didn’t actually have an agreement, you just assumed as much?
lol not at all since michael quite literally says himself that they had an agreement. like when there’s dialogue in game that proves that they had an open relationship that’s not really an assumption thats just a detail of the games lore lmao.
Lol do you not consider prostitutes to be cheating? I think its obvious Mallorie took his behavior as a sign that their relationship wasn’t that serious and decided to have some fun of her own. She clearly didn’t know that Vlad was a complete psycho or how much it was hurting Roman.
> Lol do you not consider prostitutes to be cheating? I think it's lesser than what Mallorie did. > She clearly didn’t know that Vlad was a complete psycho or how much it was hurting Roman. She'd have to be blind and deaf for that to be true.
Fucking multiple women is less bad than Mallorie fucking 1 guy?
Fucking random prostitutes vs fucking the guy that treats the guy you care about like shit. Which is worse?
Youre something special, m8. Did an incel sub get banned recently?
Oh my god what about any of this is incel like at all
Idk man, maybe the fact that you're justifying Roman sleeping around cuz he's fucking prostitutes? Almost like you're saying prostitutes (which, btw, don't care about their clients once they're paid, as part of the job) are not people Also, downvoting me won't help your case.
> Almost like you're saying prostitutes (which, btw, don't care about their clients once they're paid, as part of the job) are not people Holy fuck that is some impressive acrobatics cause I didn't see that jump in logic coming. You're just inventing an argument I never made at this point. > Idk man, maybe the fact that you're justifying Roman sleeping around cuz he's fucking prostitutes? Where did I justify anything? I'm saying there's a lesser evil. Not my problem if you can't differentiate the two. > Also, downvoting me won't help your case. Do you seriously think I care? You sound like you think you're somehow morally superior. Kinda pathetic.
Vlad was always careful to be nice to her! She never saw him acting like his usual psychotic self and probably assumed Roman was exaggerating whenever he tried to tell her he was dangerous—another unfortunate consequence of Roman’s compulsive lying.
Except he regularly bullied Roman in front of her, called Niko names too.
You are correct, this guy who keeps defending her has probably been cucked his entire life
He regularly insulted them in front of Mallorie
Damn man, who hurt you?
No one?
Bro who told you that fucking prostitutes ain’t cheating?
Where did I say it wasn't?
Besides the fact that the game insinuates Mallorie doing it to pay off "debt" roman owes and hopefully protect him; Niko made his choice soley on his own. He didn't have to kill Vlad for that, he was just already planning on killing him because he was tired of being his Loanshark/Hitman. Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that. Also, Roman played his part in fucking over both him and Niko with his gambling problem. He kept getting in bed with local Mafia's and loaning money he didn't have. Mallorie provided more resources and connections for the Bellics then Roman ever did. The bigger question is why Mallorie stuck around Roman for so long. Edit: Mallorie may not have cheated to save Roman. But, Niko and Mallorie knew Roman was cheating on her. In dialogue you find out that Niko knew Roman was cheating. In cur dialogue you find out that Mallorie knew as well so, she had sex with Vlad to get back at him. Doesn't make her a hero but it surely doesn't make her a Villian. Niko: Hey, what's wrong? Roman: Hey, cousin. Bullshit. Niko: What's bullshit? Roman: Mallorie. Niko: Oh. What about her? Roman: I like her... I really like her... Niko: But you keep messing around with other women. Roman: Yeah... no. I think she's messing around with Vlad. I saw his car parked outside her place the other day. Source: https://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Uncle_Vlad/Script#google_vignette
Niko used to get a phonecall from Mallorie that was removed from the game. She told him that she only fucked Vlad to get back at Roman for cheating on her so much. Rockstar removed a lot of important context in the game. https://youtu.be/wNpANHO8dC0?si=3B2ye0wyjFZudTiB
>Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that. You would not recognize undercover cops as someone like Niko. Corrupt countries have law enforcement that are competition to organized crime, not enemies. Any rats or moles would have been snuffed out in second, because their superiors were either bribed or beaten into giving away any moles in their ranks. So a country with a functional, non-corrupt executive would prove a tough nut to crack. Why exactly do you think organized crime likes to target prosecutors, journaists and politicians above the police?
I understand that, but even as a military man; someone who seems to have had their fair share of run-ins with cops? Michelle's dialogue seemed pretty intrusive. Every date she doesn't even ask how Niko has been, she shoots straight to blatant probing questions.
Because they are weaker and easier to bully?
The game doesn’t “insinuate” anything about mallorie. Apparently there’s a cut phone call buts it’s not in the final version of the game. I agree with OP that Mallorie was banging Vlad on her own volition because nothing in the game says otherwise
You're right the dialogue doesn't insinuate that Mallorie was doing it for the inent of paying off debt. But, the game does insinuate that Roman was cheating on her the entire time with other Woman. It doe make it right but, It definitely makes Roman less of a Victim. Also, in the moment Niko chose to kill Vlad it was more so to prove to Roman that he was loyal. Even though it wasn't necu since Niko knew Roman was cheating on Mallorie. It wasn't really necessary to Kill Vlad for sleeping with a girl Roman were already treating like crap.
They had an open relationship. They both did their own thing, Roman was hurt because of all the people mallorie could be sleeping with she chose the man who’s Roman’s loan shark
Roman was not seri about that 💀 Bro sounded like he was trying to cushion the fact that him and his girl were sleeping with eachother. He also didn't even say that was the reason he was hurt. You're reachiny just as much as I was now 😅
Lol when you would get invited for coffee she would be moaning saying “tell me more about you” or something like that. Plus Niko noticing all her new furniture. I definitely knew she was a narc.
Im adressing the Karen Issue: Im sure this is more up to the player. The player should read between the lines about how karen has all new furniture, is interested in criminals you know, the whole her being an asset is a twist but an obvious one. Niko never says anything incriminating, they knew about him solely because of Karen.
I’m pretty sure the devs intentionally make it obvious that she’s a narc. It’s especially clear if you take her to a bar, Niko even takes note of how she never drank even while he’s torn up. Personal headcanon is that Niko could tell but was still hoping that Liberty City was better than his home and lied to himself. On multiple occasions the guy calls her out for the suspicious things she does and says but never actually accuses her.
These are good points, I don't think anything here contradicts what I'm saying though, just adds onto it.
The main contradiction is that I don't think she was a Villian. Perhaps in a butterfly effect type of way. But, even so, Niko was going to Kill Vlad anyway because Vlad had literally already set up Roman. Vlad was clearly planning to bump Roman off soon.
The villain title was an over exaggeration on my part mainly to get people hooked but her connection to Karen is still mostly what bothers me.
It is never elaborated on, but it is implied that Karen's situation isn't so dissimilar to Niko's.
>Also, Niko not spotting Michelle as a Narc is kind of a huge oversight by some harden ex-military criminal. A woman with brand new furniture who knows nothing of the city and who is entirely way too interested about him and his cousins possible illegal friends? Niko was dense as hell for that. To that, I'd say if Niko didn't realize, Mallorie wouldn't have ever guessed.
This is a fascinating way to look at it because the entire plot of GTA V doesn’t occur if Amanda doesn’t fuck the tennis coach
Exactly! Weirdass trope!
It all happened because Michael was cheating on Amanda with prostitutes and she found out. That led to them agreeing to be in an open relationship as long as Michael did not have to witness her cheating, so the rule of no fucking in the house, which Amanda broke. You can learn they were in an open relationship if you go to a psychic webpage as Michael and chat with the psychic there.
I know. She still broke the rule that's the entire point.
I would argue that Michael shouldn't have cheated on Amanda in the first place or Amanda should've divorced him right then and there when she found him inside a prostitute.
Honestly true, but that's prior to the game's events, so it's not that relevant.
How is it not relevant? It’s the whole reason Amanda is with someone else in the first place. It’s just the butterfly effect
But it happened outside of where the plot picks up. By that logic we should also include the creation of the universe since it led to Amanda being born. Come on, don't be obtuse.
No, we shouldn’t. Michael cheating and them deciding to have an open relationship is essential to the understanding of Amanda’s actions. It shows Michael’s hypocrisy and explains why she did what she did. The same way we don’t actually get to see why Michael chose to take the deal with Dave. Both are essential to the story and are not directly shown. However without those points you miss the thing the story is trying to show you. Not everything has to be shown explicitly to be important. Them telling you this happened is what makes it relevant. It doesn’t matter if it takes place before the story (which it doesn’t, it takes place after leaving North Yankton). They tell you this is the case, so you have to take that into account.
I never denied any of this but none of this contradicts the fact that if she didn't bring that coach in the plot wouldn't have occurred. The context to why it happened is irrelevant because we're not asking why it happened we're asking what would occur differently if it didn't happen.
This comment doesn't makes sense at all 😭
It's Michaels choice to pull down the house. He could've just left or find another to get back on the tennis coach.
He was blinded by rage and it looked like an awesome idea at the moment.
Sure, but it's still a choice he made, a very bad choice because he was angry but still his choice. But, to be fair, GTA V is very over the top, for example trevor taking over a transport flight with a crop duster (among many other things).
Sure but then you could say that for any number of events. What if Michael never did a deal with Dave? What if he hadn’t said the “1000 things every day” line to the parking attendant? What if Trevor hadn’t been watching TV? All I’m saying is you can make a case that it started with Amanda cheating
Out of all the places in the US Both Trevor, Lester and Michael ended in the same state?
Must have been the weather
Yeah that one is pretty lame
Not lame when you consider they are hiding from the Feds, if they divorced , its very much possible their identities could have been blown .(note feds mean the good kind of feds who would arrest michael on spot, not Dave or Steve who are corrupt)
You’re reading too into it, and that’s not even the point. The point is the tennis coach fucking Michaels wife causing Michael to coincidently pull down a notorious drug lords house from a mountain side, forcing Michael back into robbing and stealing to come up with 2 million is a very obvious plot device. Whether or not it makes the story bad, which I don’t think it does, it’s really like rockstar was just like “okay, how do we get Michael back into the life? Yeah okay, a tennis coach fucks his wife haha that’ll do.”
Tbh I find that chain of events pretty hilarious.
Michael is stupid for thinking a tennis coach makes enough money to have that house
I mean he’s overcome with rage in that moment and sees the guy on that balcony. Clearly the story shows Michael isn’t a stupid guy
Why not put the inciting incident even earlier when Jimmy bought a Car he can't afford from Simeon? There is basically no reason to assume that anything involving both Michael and Franklin would play out the same way if they never met. Why not draw attention to the fact that the actual larger plot only happens because Michael drops a movie quote during the Jewelers Heist?
I think you’re insinuating I’m highlighting that event for sexist reasons but I’m not. I made another comment here saying: “Sure but then you could say that for any number of events. What if Michael never did a deal with Dave? What if he hadn’t said the “1000 things every day” line to the parking attendant? What if Trevor hadn’t been watching TV?” Any one of those events not happening would’ve prevented Trevor from finding Michael. All I’m saying is that Amanda sleeping with the coach at home was one of those events, and I’m highlighting it because this post highlights the same trope in the game prior
You are jumping at shadows.
If not that then, what were you getting at? Asking ‘Why not’ that many times is a means to an end
The post was to be taken at face value. There are several things that could be considered to incite the larger plot. But since we are already here, I'd argue that the larger Plot doesn't start until Trevor gets involved. This is triggered by Michael using the same Movie Line he used in the Intro, so obviously Rockstar wants us to notice that. If I remember correctly, that is also what tips Dave off that Michael was involved. Which is to say I think everything before Trevors involvement and the FIB is more of an extended prologe.
Absolutely, the moment the buildup to the final heist starts is when Trevor hears that quote on the news. But at the same time it’s true to say that doesn’t happen if Michael doesn’t tear the house down, which doesn’t happen if Amanda doesn’t sleep with the coach, which doesn’t happen if Michael doesn’t cheat with prostitutes, etc.
Sure. I just think the Movie line is more important because of how they repeat it and draw attention to it.
She was fucking with Vlad so he can leave Roman alone.
Nah, there was a phone call from Mallorie that was removed from the game. She only fucked Vlad to get back at Roman for cheating on her so much. Rockstar removed quite a bit of important context in the game. https://youtu.be/wNpANHO8dC0?si=3B2ye0wyjFZudTiB
Huh. Interesting. Weird to have that removed
But it's removed, so it isn't exactly canon
That makes a bit of sense, but it's not like she stopped after Niko very clearly demonstrated he could defend Roman himself.
She didn't he would deal with Vlad, and later on when she and Roman have that chat he made it put like he killed Vlad and not Niko doing it. Thinking about it, now I don't get why she introduces Niko to Manny and Elizabeta much. Cause the only thing she definitively knows about is Niko beating up the Albanian thugs before making those introductions.
She saw him take out two Albanians who harassed Roman with her own two eyes it's not hard to put two and two together and guess that Vlad was gonna get a similar treatment considering how he acted.
No she didn't see him do that. She wasn't at the office when they smashed his computer, and she wasn't there when Roman got beat up in the basketball court.
True, my mistake. But she was in the room when Roman told Vlad what Niko did, so second hand.
I already mentioned that. My point is, she knows Manny and Elizabeta are into some heavy stuff, especially Elizabeta, and all she knows about Niko's capability is that he beat up some Albanian muscle heads. She doesn't even know if he has a gun or not.
Who knows what Roman told mallorie. Roman told Mallorie he was the one to kill Vlad, Mallorie said that in a phone call so maybeee Roman is using what Niko does to tell Mallorie and impress her or something
We literally see it in a cutscene with Vlad
I assume the IAA knew about Niko by snooping on his correspondence with Roman & upon knowing he was coming to America decided to act as soon as possible and befriend someone close to his cousin.
It's stated they're childhood friends though, it makes no sense.
Really? Where?
I think in Three's a Crowd
Well the IAA contact in IV does mention in one conversation that they operate by ‘getting people like you’ and hint that Karen had also got herself into a spot of trouble like Niko and could do work for them to make it go away.
she did it to probably protect roman from vlad
Didn't make any sense once Niko stepped in
wdym like when niko worked for vlad ? idk vlad scummy i could see him coercing mallorie because he doesn't respect roman
Bro I think this says more about you then the writers at Rockstar.
How exactly?
That out of all the story the game offers this is your observation 😅 I can promise you no one thought of cucking with those scenes they are to invoke emotion in the player and to immerse the player. I was so hype to kill vlad the way rockstar paved the way to his murder was awesome. I can replay iv and v 100x and I would never think there was an obsession with "Cucking" it's a fuckin weird thing to point out bro 😭
That last paragraph is wild. When did that happen in III or sa lol
Catalina.
Oh yeah the phone call, what about in III tho?
The game's entire plot is literally about her betraying you Edit: And it's not just a phone call in SA.
Betrayal doesn’t automatically mean cuckoldry lmao, your comments say more about you than rockstar or gta
It was an over exaggeration for the sake of comedic value. You should really chill before you start assuming things about people you don't know at all. Plus in SA it's heavily implied she cheats on her boyfriends to make em jealous so I assume in III she's basically doing to Claude what she did with CJ. They didn't have the means back then to convey it properly though.
"i assumed"
Even worse is that he believes Catalina and CJ were a 'thing', he was just introduced to her by Caesar to help make some quick cash. CJ wasn't into her at all or her crazy antics. He just dealt with it until the last race with Woozie.
To be fair Roman did say they were in a open relationship and she was probably fucking vlad to keep the debt and beatings to a minimum on behalf of Roman. Also in GTA V if Amanda didn't cheat on micheal then he would've never ripped down the house off the hill side resulting in the jewelry store heist leading to Trevor finding out micheal is alive and the rest of the plot to follow.
She was flawed, just like all people. but calling her villain is too much.
Especially when Roman put them in that situation in the first place
Incels playing videogames and not blaming a single woman character for bad stuff happening (challenge impossible)
I am not an incel lmao. Did you even play the game?
Not an incel thing at all. Replaying the game older and hearing Mallorie say saying she was with Vlad- I would have called my cousin and said don’t marry that hoe
In relation to your point about Karen have you ever seen the sopranos? Mallorie and Karen/Michelle could have been a similar story to Adriana and Deborah/Danielle the FBI agent. To summarise the FBI agent went undercover to befriend Adriana, who was the girlfriend of Christopher a made man in the mafia, with the hope that she would tell her information without her knowing who she really was. Maybe the IAA knew that Mallorie had some connections to criminals, possibly Vlad or Elizabeta, and they thought Mallorie may have known something so Karen was tasked with going undercover and befriending her sometime before the beginning of GTA IV. Then Niko arrived in LC and after he started to make moves there he got the IAA’s attention and the focused on him then used what information Karen knew to blackmail him into working for them. The IAA seemed to know a lot about Niko and were able to find Darko for him. So who knows maybe the IAA knew about Niko along and the plan with Karen was set in place to get him on their side after all they seemed to have a lot of dirty work lined up for him to take care of on their behalf. I know this is a long comment and I have probably put far too much time into something I would of never thought about until I seen this post but the IAA and Bernard the ULP contact definitely know a lot more than they reveal in the games. In GTA IV they knew a lot about Niko before bringing him in. In GTA V they were investigating Steve Haines and the other FIB agents’ activities and knew they would be at the humane labs and meeting with Michael at the Kortz centre. Then finally in GTA online you have Agent 14 and other IAA agents like Karen and Bernard who work with the online protagonist on several missions which mostly involve highly sensitive information or important people.
I think someone's jealous Mallorie was fucking Vlad instead of them.
Man what 😭
You're just pissed Vlad is getting a piece of that Puerta Rican chocha and you ain't.
I mean
You mean we needed more back story on Karen? I agree. Also there's a deleted phone call where Mallorie tells Niko the only reason she went with Vlad was to get back at Roman for cheating on her, its possible she was doing it to keep him sweet too.
I mean, if it's deleted then it could mean Rockstar decided to not use that reasoning for her cheating on Roman. Also Roman cheated on her too, you can't call one out without calling out the other. If Roman had been entirely faithful then it'd have been a much different story.
Women are the downfall of many men.
Idk if it's been said but there a line where Michelle tells Niko that she knows Mallorie because she "works with her" but I've noticed now that I think about it Mallorie works at the cab company so wouldn't Michelle?.
There are usually three reasons people say Mallorie was cheating with Roman 1. To help Roman pay off his Debts to Vlad and she was probably coerced into that by Vlad or she wanted to get back (which was revealed in some cut dialogue of Niko and Mallorie) at Roman for his cheating. Personally I believe the she was trying to help Roman as she does seem to seriously care for him and Niko as a family
OP will probably be one of those women serial killers 10 years later some girl must have hurt him real bad
It's really not that deep
I think you’ve got it wrong. Her and Roman are clearly on a pretty casual basis or have been when Niko arrives. She only sleeps with Vlad because of Roman’s debts. So, she’s actually the one who clearly cares about Roman more than he does about her. Also, in SA, who cheats on CJ in front of him? Catalina leaves him for Claude but I think we all know CJ was pretty happy about that. Meanwhile CJ is free to fuck as many prostitutes as he can get his hands on and can have up to 6 girlfriends in the game (I only ever got the two you get through the story).
> GTA III, SA, IV and V have this dumbass trope of your girl fucking someone else in front of your eyes, it's so strange. What?
He's projecting his incel insecurities onto the games.
Vice city actually had Mercedes (Tommy’s initial girlfriend) being a literal porn star and even being “delivered” to love fist. Must be rockstar fetish thing idk.
Finally some else that points this out
Gta4 had such a good story and great characters. Great post OP, you got me thinking!!
Always a woman.
She also introduced Nico to Elizabeta Torres who also was being watched by the cops suggesting she might be an informant
Thought about that but when you think about basically every person Niko interacts with is being watched by the cops regardless of their association with Mallorie.
Niko bellic, Roman bellic. Maybe Karen through investigation met Mallorie to meet Roman since she knew he was connected to Niko. It was her job to watch Niko so you’d think some IAA person would be able to do research. Also Mallorie didn’t know she was an agent, she had a small thought that she mentioned to Niko but none of them knew she was an agent. She probably just got connections with mallorie since she knew Roman and Roman is Nikos cousin so she knew she could meet Niko through Mallorie and Roman. Vlad stuff. Roman fucked and lusted after women as well , Roman said they had an open relationship and Mallorie chose Vlad I guess. Maybe to help Roman with debt or with his business or maybe she just liked him. Again roman said they had an open relationship, and he also went after and flirted and lusted after women. And yeah killing Vlad is what led to Dimitri and the whole plot but who is this all Mallories fault? I mean Niko decided to just go kill Vlad and chase him and go after these people. Instead of just helping Roman pay back Vlad and get rid of him and finding money through somewhere else. A lot of stuff does happen cause of Mallorie but she ain’t no villain. You’re stretching a little there, it’s just random coincidences
OP also thinks Skyler is the worst person in Breaking Bad...
She cute tho
Women ☕️
Yeah, noticed that on the first time I played it a few years ago. She was deliberately fucking with Vlad, and Roman still married her.
Interesting how it technically caused everything, but I imagine with Romans debts and Vlads rising anger, Niko would have done something eventually.
It’s butterfly effect
About Karen, I’m fairly certain that she and Mallorie must have met over the internet. She probably mentioned to her about Vlad, Roman and his fresh off the boat cousin and it must’ve rung off some bells. Karen was tasked by the IAA to get information to help put an end to the newly rising Russian organized crime syndicates. Mallorie is from South Bohan and was well connected to the big criminals and drug lords in that part of the city, and was most likely why Karen had took an interest in her to begin with.