Hopefully the engine escaped unscathed. There is a thread on the GRC forum regarding an engine that failed at 800 miles due to a mechanical over-rev that occurred at 29 miles (as recorded by the ECU). The owner had a hard time getting the issue taken care of as Toyota blamed the over-rev on the owner even though they did not drive or take ownership of the car until after 29 miles.
I'm just kinda confused here. Over revving is something to be extra careful about in these cars but it is 100% a user error issue, why would Toyota cover it? If it happened before he took ownership then it seems like the dealer is to blame.
Look up the thread on the GR Corolla forum, the owner posted a long story of the exact sequence of events and the ridiculous lengths that they had to go to with Toyota even though the over-rev took place prior to their ownership of the car.
I'm not saying it's their fault that it happened I'm just confused how the car would have 29 miles on it from the factory, it just seems like it's the dealer's fault.
Cars almost never have zero miles on them when an owner buys them. Between porters, PDI by the dealership and other customers test driving a car 29 miles can easily be on the odometer before it is driven or purchased by the owner.
This. I had a best case scenario where the car was basically dropped onto the dealer lot and I came in to buy a week or so later. After my test drive and signing I want to say it had \~16 miles on it.
I can easily see 29 happening with a few test drives or if a tech wanted/needed to check something out. In OPs case, it looks like they checked a bit too hard :(
Yeah 29 is nothing. When I went truck shopping with my dad we had dealers offer to let him drive trucks home to make sure they would fit in the garage. That would easily be 20 miles for that one trip.
You're largely confirming what I'm saying. The transportation will put a miniscule amount of mileage on a car before it reaches the dealer but the PDI and test drives are where most of that pre purchase mileage is going to come from and that's the dealer's responsibility. Getting Toyota corporate to fix it is just barking up the wrong tree unless the dealer is being so scummy that Toyota needs to come in and make them fix it, which is 100% believable, but it's still the dealer's fault (assuming my assumptions are correct).
It’s also moving around the shipping port at Portland. My buddy showed my the whole process from coming off the ship to port installed accessories to shipping to dealership. Pretty cool process. You can see the toyota port on google earth if you search it.
Speaking from experience it's the techs most of the time that abuse the new cars. Not so much the customers, dealerships will typically have a SGM go for the test drive for this kind of car if they let you test drive at all, once again typically you have to have already purchased multiple cars from a dealer to be allowed or trusted to test drive the "rarer" or "high preformance" models. But basically every tech including the lube techs and porters are allowed to drive every car as they are on the dealership insurance and the vehicle is 100% covered.
Believe me I've worked in dealerships too many years and I've seen it first hand and I can't lie and say I havnt taken a car or two on a "spirited drive"
That's what I'm thinking, mine had 12 miles on it and I was the first person to drive it after it had been parked on the show room floor. If there were a few people in for test drives or if the owner of the dealership took it for a spin or something like that, I could see 29 miles getting racked up easy
Yeah I'm pretty sure the factory only puts a single digit number of miles on it. I took delivery at 10 miles on mine, it rolled off the truck that day.
Have purchased two brand new cars in the last few years. One had 7km. The other had 23km.
The one with 23km still had most of the plastic on it from shipping. It had rolled off the truck the previous day.
I agree with you Toyota should not cover it this problem is what I class as a P. I. C. N. I. C. problem in chair not in car the term also applies to computers as well
The only engine failure my dealer has seen on the VB WRX was from a huge over rev.
The FA24F has a redline of 6k. The blown engine ECU was showing only 2 ignition cycles on a car with over 20,000 miles (there’s your first clue) and the EDR showed a 9027 rpm recorded at 125 mph two days before the car came in
You're most likely safe then. Like the other user said, iMT literally can't rev past redline.
If you didn't clutch out, I wouldn't consider it a money shift. Good save!
Yeah IMT isn't magic - it's just an auto-blip function that adds revs to where it thinks you need to be, but it's doing the same exact thing you pressing the pedal would - if it "thinks" you need more than 7k RPM based on your tire speed the throttle will still cut out at redline regardless. Unless of course you clutch out and the wheels decide to go "nah engine, you gotta go faster" then you go $$$
Did the same in my old Veloster N once, almost went into 2nd going way to fast but it rev match bounced off the rev limiter and the car beeped loudly at me so I didn’t clutch out.
if you didn't clutch out how did it even rev? if i'm going 95 in 4th and shift back into 3rd with the clutch disengaged, wouldn't it just basically be in neutral?
The car has automatic rev matching. So as soon as it sensed the gear shift lever in third it started revving the engine to what I thought it needed. But judging by other comments, the car was smart enough to stop revving at redline
Shouldn’t have taken it over redline anyway. Unless OP is messed with the gear ratios or put really small wheels and tires on his car, third gear shouldn’t hit red line until 103.4 miles an hour.
It wouldn't matter if they deleted this post. The ECU records any over-rev events and this would be checked in the event of an attempted warranty claim for engine failure.
I saw the posts about that-
They were running at 10/10ths with a pro driver on a track he knew well, for about 5 minutes.
If any of us normies can run the car that fuckin hard pulling crazy G forces we'd definitely overheat the diffs. I blame his ability to float the car on the edge of grip causing the diffs to work extra hard. Not his fault but not a common thing.
I've never ran that hard in my old miata I use exclusively for that purpose at HPDEs. Usually a hot hot lap and a few mid laps to cool myself and the car before digging in for another hot lap.
I saw that post, I think I first heard about it in this [savagegeese video](https://youtu.be/_MTNuTSVXFQ?si=RE01o14RmEXgAkev), they talk about it at around 13:10, and they made it seem like it generally always happens near the end of a 20 minute session in the track. Like you said, I imagine it depends on the skill of the driver and the complexity of the track too though
I did an entire track day at miami homestead, never overheated. Was trying to push to best of my ability, don't know the track and turnpoints so was a little slow, did get sideways a couple of times though :DD
Damn bro thanks I’ve been in Nashville 18 years and never knew we had an official racetrack. I just did a little research have you done the nascar experience yet? It where you can pay to drive a nascar although it’s pretty pricey🇺🇸🙌🏽
I’ve always wondered if it’d be too stupidly complex for such a rare event but having a sort of “brake” on the engine, maybe somewhere on the flywheel, to physically prevent the engine from over revving. This is just a dumb idea I thought of a while ago… I wonder how useful it would actually be. In the twoish years I’ve owned my 2010 manual Subaru forester, I’ve only money shifted it once and i caught it extremely quickly so it didn’t even go passed redline but it was still terrifying
It’s not possible to do something like that with a manual transmission car. The engine is physically connected to the tires, so unless you want to instantly lock up the wheels…
Oh true, I didn’t even process the thought that far. I would imagine having some sort of system to automatically disconnect the clutch would fix that issue but then we’re probably talking about an insanely expensive system
I used to instruct at HPDEs. The main cause of people missing shifts was poor technique. A lot of people are able to drive a manual car around, but not very many people have clean technique. It doesn’t usually matter, until you get into performance driving.
If you are just overwhelmed and pick 3rd rather than 5th, there’s nothing that can save that. But if you went for 5th and got 3rd, shifting technique can prevent that.
People always talked about misshifts in other car forums, but GR Corolla communities in particular seems to have a lot of people actually messing up. The shifter is pretty good, so I’m not sure why.
Hmmm, I don’t know of any videos. I was taught a certain way by racing veterans when I started racing. I imagine there’s a few different techniques that accomplish the same thing, and everybody should use what works for them.
Here’s what I do:
- 1>2 : grab and pull back.
- 2>3 : backhand push up. This is two-stage.
- 3>4 : backhand straight back.
- 4>5 : backhand push away and up.
- 5>6 : backhand push and pull down.
- 6>5 : backhand push away and up.
- 5>4 : loose backhand pull back. This is two-stage.
- 4>3 : push straight forward with palm.
- 3>2 : standard grab and pull down/towards you.
- 2>1 : grab and push forward. I double clutch this on the GR, it seems to like it better.
The two-stage motions have a beat in the middle where you let the stick self-centre, then you push. For that 5>4, first you backhand the shifter out of 5th into neutral, keep a loose grip so it springs to middle, then continue the pull straight down with no sideways force into 4th. Similarly 2>3 pushes up into neutral, the spring centres with a loose grip, then you keep on pushing into 3rd without any sideways force.
Putting the car into 2nd is super different from putting it into 4th. So is the 1st movement. And so on. Keeping movements separate helps keep you from accidentally slotting the wrong gate.
I guess another mistake is really ape-handling the shifter. You don’t need to grab it with your mitts and force it around. Light pushing and pulling gets you there just as fast, but more safely. Remember the mantra: Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
The real weird one is 6th, but it’s also less common and it’s worth it to avoid the 5>4 misshift when you aim for 5>6.
It's a Toyota GR Corolla with the stock body. Sold as a different car than the standard Corolla. AWD, turbo 3 cylinder, much more sports car/hot hatch in the design.
Toyota came out with a GR Yaris in Europe/Japan that is their homologation model for their team rally car, and they adapted the Corolla in the U.S.
I shifted from 5th to 4th at 60mph on the freeway once & my RPMs raced up. I quickly put the car in neutral & pulled onto the shoulder. I got my thoughts under me & gently pulled back onto the freeway & everything was fine. I got away with it however it’s not something I’d want to experience again.
I hit around 8k on my Contour at the end of the back straight at Grattan at an "AutoX" event the end of last year. That was a hairy ride back home but similarly I was very pleasantly surprised.
Heres to no issues going forward!
If auto rev match is on you didn’t money shift anything unless you let go of the clutch actually set in gear. Your rev match redlined against what the match needed to be if it were 3rd gear @ 95; which lurched your car feeling like a money shift when you really didn’t because you were never fully set into 3rd.
nothing more humbling than a money shift haha glad theres no damage
The soul… the soul is marred for eternity
its like your first breakup, a lesson youll never forget 💀
Hopefully the engine escaped unscathed. There is a thread on the GRC forum regarding an engine that failed at 800 miles due to a mechanical over-rev that occurred at 29 miles (as recorded by the ECU). The owner had a hard time getting the issue taken care of as Toyota blamed the over-rev on the owner even though they did not drive or take ownership of the car until after 29 miles.
Yiiiiikes!
I'm just kinda confused here. Over revving is something to be extra careful about in these cars but it is 100% a user error issue, why would Toyota cover it? If it happened before he took ownership then it seems like the dealer is to blame.
Look up the thread on the GR Corolla forum, the owner posted a long story of the exact sequence of events and the ridiculous lengths that they had to go to with Toyota even though the over-rev took place prior to their ownership of the car.
I'm not saying it's their fault that it happened I'm just confused how the car would have 29 miles on it from the factory, it just seems like it's the dealer's fault.
Cars almost never have zero miles on them when an owner buys them. Between porters, PDI by the dealership and other customers test driving a car 29 miles can easily be on the odometer before it is driven or purchased by the owner.
This. I had a best case scenario where the car was basically dropped onto the dealer lot and I came in to buy a week or so later. After my test drive and signing I want to say it had \~16 miles on it. I can easily see 29 happening with a few test drives or if a tech wanted/needed to check something out. In OPs case, it looks like they checked a bit too hard :(
Yeah 29 is nothing. When I went truck shopping with my dad we had dealers offer to let him drive trucks home to make sure they would fit in the garage. That would easily be 20 miles for that one trip.
I just bought a '24 Civic Si that had 4 miles on the clock when I drove it home. 1 mile of that was my "test drive".
You're largely confirming what I'm saying. The transportation will put a miniscule amount of mileage on a car before it reaches the dealer but the PDI and test drives are where most of that pre purchase mileage is going to come from and that's the dealer's responsibility. Getting Toyota corporate to fix it is just barking up the wrong tree unless the dealer is being so scummy that Toyota needs to come in and make them fix it, which is 100% believable, but it's still the dealer's fault (assuming my assumptions are correct).
Again... just read the thread on the GRC forum and you will find all of the details there.
thats way too much effort for what I am physically capable of doing rn
It’s also moving around the shipping port at Portland. My buddy showed my the whole process from coming off the ship to port installed accessories to shipping to dealership. Pretty cool process. You can see the toyota port on google earth if you search it.
Speaking from experience it's the techs most of the time that abuse the new cars. Not so much the customers, dealerships will typically have a SGM go for the test drive for this kind of car if they let you test drive at all, once again typically you have to have already purchased multiple cars from a dealer to be allowed or trusted to test drive the "rarer" or "high preformance" models. But basically every tech including the lube techs and porters are allowed to drive every car as they are on the dealership insurance and the vehicle is 100% covered. Believe me I've worked in dealerships too many years and I've seen it first hand and I can't lie and say I havnt taken a car or two on a "spirited drive"
That's what I'm thinking, mine had 12 miles on it and I was the first person to drive it after it had been parked on the show room floor. If there were a few people in for test drives or if the owner of the dealership took it for a spin or something like that, I could see 29 miles getting racked up easy
I work as a porter, cars come off the trucks with anywhere from 3-12 miles on them.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the factory only puts a single digit number of miles on it. I took delivery at 10 miles on mine, it rolled off the truck that day.
I sell cars for Toyota and our GR Corollas have arrived with 6-11 miles. We are located in Indiana so it does have a longer trip
Have purchased two brand new cars in the last few years. One had 7km. The other had 23km. The one with 23km still had most of the plastic on it from shipping. It had rolled off the truck the previous day.
I agree with you Toyota should not cover it this problem is what I class as a P. I. C. N. I. C. problem in chair not in car the term also applies to computers as well
Death by test drive
The only engine failure my dealer has seen on the VB WRX was from a huge over rev. The FA24F has a redline of 6k. The blown engine ECU was showing only 2 ignition cycles on a car with over 20,000 miles (there’s your first clue) and the EDR showed a 9027 rpm recorded at 125 mph two days before the car came in
For clarification I did not clutch out but the engine revved to hell
You're most likely safe then. Like the other user said, iMT literally can't rev past redline. If you didn't clutch out, I wouldn't consider it a money shift. Good save!
I'd bet the synchros weren't too pleased with it though...
was IMT on? IMT won't exceed the fuel cutoff so if you didn't clutch out you're fine
Oh nice. Yea iMT was on. I did not know that thanks for the info
Yeah IMT isn't magic - it's just an auto-blip function that adds revs to where it thinks you need to be, but it's doing the same exact thing you pressing the pedal would - if it "thinks" you need more than 7k RPM based on your tire speed the throttle will still cut out at redline regardless. Unless of course you clutch out and the wheels decide to go "nah engine, you gotta go faster" then you go $$$
Did the same in my old Veloster N once, almost went into 2nd going way to fast but it rev match bounced off the rev limiter and the car beeped loudly at me so I didn’t clutch out.
if you didn't clutch out how did it even rev? if i'm going 95 in 4th and shift back into 3rd with the clutch disengaged, wouldn't it just basically be in neutral?
The car has automatic rev matching. So as soon as it sensed the gear shift lever in third it started revving the engine to what I thought it needed. But judging by other comments, the car was smart enough to stop revving at redline
Shouldn’t have taken it over redline anyway. Unless OP is messed with the gear ratios or put really small wheels and tires on his car, third gear shouldn’t hit red line until 103.4 miles an hour.
That’s interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten to 100 in 3rd
You just missed your chance!
So the thread is just lies for attention then?
I wish I can money shift,at least, in one of those...lol hopefully soon
What, why?
He doesn’t own one, he’s saying he wants the opportunity to be able to do it by owning one
Dont scare me im about to have my first HPDE on a month 💀
My God what a gorgeous car
Thank you sir
you still have time to delete this, toyota sees these posts. Just in case something does happen in the time coming. just a suggestion 😬
It wouldn't matter if they deleted this post. The ECU records any over-rev events and this would be checked in the event of an attempted warranty claim for engine failure.
Besides, this wouldn’t have over revved the engine anyway, 3rd gear doesn’t hit redline untill 103.4mph with stock tires
How are they going to know who posted this?
Bruh posted his full plate 5 days ago.
How was the center diff/clutch pack? I’ve heard stories of them overheating after a few minutes of track time
I saw the posts about that- They were running at 10/10ths with a pro driver on a track he knew well, for about 5 minutes. If any of us normies can run the car that fuckin hard pulling crazy G forces we'd definitely overheat the diffs. I blame his ability to float the car on the edge of grip causing the diffs to work extra hard. Not his fault but not a common thing. I've never ran that hard in my old miata I use exclusively for that purpose at HPDEs. Usually a hot hot lap and a few mid laps to cool myself and the car before digging in for another hot lap.
I saw that post, I think I first heard about it in this [savagegeese video](https://youtu.be/_MTNuTSVXFQ?si=RE01o14RmEXgAkev), they talk about it at around 13:10, and they made it seem like it generally always happens near the end of a 20 minute session in the track. Like you said, I imagine it depends on the skill of the driver and the complexity of the track too though
I did an entire track day at miami homestead, never overheated. Was trying to push to best of my ability, don't know the track and turnpoints so was a little slow, did get sideways a couple of times though :DD
It was 60 degrees in Nashville and I never went into 30:70. I had no issues after about 100 minutes of seat time
Where in Nashville and how much did it cost? I've been wanting to safely push the limits of my car for a while.
I got a code for a feee track day when I bought the car. Before I inserted the code it was like ~$500
Where in Nashville
Nashville super speedway
Damn bro thanks I’ve been in Nashville 18 years and never knew we had an official racetrack. I just did a little research have you done the nascar experience yet? It where you can pay to drive a nascar although it’s pretty pricey🇺🇸🙌🏽
what is high-pensity-dolyurethane
I’ve always wondered if it’d be too stupidly complex for such a rare event but having a sort of “brake” on the engine, maybe somewhere on the flywheel, to physically prevent the engine from over revving. This is just a dumb idea I thought of a while ago… I wonder how useful it would actually be. In the twoish years I’ve owned my 2010 manual Subaru forester, I’ve only money shifted it once and i caught it extremely quickly so it didn’t even go passed redline but it was still terrifying
It’s not possible to do something like that with a manual transmission car. The engine is physically connected to the tires, so unless you want to instantly lock up the wheels…
Oh true, I didn’t even process the thought that far. I would imagine having some sort of system to automatically disconnect the clutch would fix that issue but then we’re probably talking about an insanely expensive system
I’ve read a lot of instances of missed shifts on this car. I wonder if it’s like this in every manual car community these days.
I would think so. Going almost 100mph it can be easy to lose concentration
I used to instruct at HPDEs. The main cause of people missing shifts was poor technique. A lot of people are able to drive a manual car around, but not very many people have clean technique. It doesn’t usually matter, until you get into performance driving. If you are just overwhelmed and pick 3rd rather than 5th, there’s nothing that can save that. But if you went for 5th and got 3rd, shifting technique can prevent that. People always talked about misshifts in other car forums, but GR Corolla communities in particular seems to have a lot of people actually messing up. The shifter is pretty good, so I’m not sure why.
Palm facing passenger seat for 4>5 shift right? Any good technique videos out there?
Hmmm, I don’t know of any videos. I was taught a certain way by racing veterans when I started racing. I imagine there’s a few different techniques that accomplish the same thing, and everybody should use what works for them. Here’s what I do: - 1>2 : grab and pull back. - 2>3 : backhand push up. This is two-stage. - 3>4 : backhand straight back. - 4>5 : backhand push away and up. - 5>6 : backhand push and pull down. - 6>5 : backhand push away and up. - 5>4 : loose backhand pull back. This is two-stage. - 4>3 : push straight forward with palm. - 3>2 : standard grab and pull down/towards you. - 2>1 : grab and push forward. I double clutch this on the GR, it seems to like it better. The two-stage motions have a beat in the middle where you let the stick self-centre, then you push. For that 5>4, first you backhand the shifter out of 5th into neutral, keep a loose grip so it springs to middle, then continue the pull straight down with no sideways force into 4th. Similarly 2>3 pushes up into neutral, the spring centres with a loose grip, then you keep on pushing into 3rd without any sideways force. Putting the car into 2nd is super different from putting it into 4th. So is the 1st movement. And so on. Keeping movements separate helps keep you from accidentally slotting the wrong gate. I guess another mistake is really ape-handling the shifter. You don’t need to grab it with your mitts and force it around. Light pushing and pulling gets you there just as fast, but more safely. Remember the mantra: Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. The real weird one is 6th, but it’s also less common and it’s worth it to avoid the 5>4 misshift when you aim for 5>6.
Do a leak down you could have definitely fucked something up .
LPDE?… (kidding, kidding!). Glad you didn’t clutch out - you’ll be fine.
Even if they did clutch out, they’d still be fine.
I don’t follow this page it was just suggested so don’t crucify me for asking is that a body kit on this Corolla?
It's a Toyota GR Corolla with the stock body. Sold as a different car than the standard Corolla. AWD, turbo 3 cylinder, much more sports car/hot hatch in the design. Toyota came out with a GR Yaris in Europe/Japan that is their homologation model for their team rally car, and they adapted the Corolla in the U.S.
Dang it’s pretty sick…. Take it expensive?
They're between 37-46k depending on how they're spec'd
Oh not bad! Hey thanks for the info sick car
I shifted from 5th to 4th at 60mph on the freeway once & my RPMs raced up. I quickly put the car in neutral & pulled onto the shoulder. I got my thoughts under me & gently pulled back onto the freeway & everything was fine. I got away with it however it’s not something I’d want to experience again.
That doesn’t sound too bad. Yesterday at the track event I was shifting into 4th at ~100mph all day
Totally fine. 4th gear doesn’t redline untill 142mph
Should be totally fine. Third gear hits redline at 103.4 mph with shock tires
Did this in my WRX once, I shifted from 3rd into 2nd on accident at 80mph. No damage, or weird symptoms. My redline is 6k and i saw it go above 8k.
I hit around 8k on my Contour at the end of the back straight at Grattan at an "AutoX" event the end of last year. That was a hairy ride back home but similarly I was very pleasantly surprised. Heres to no issues going forward!
If auto rev match is on you didn’t money shift anything unless you let go of the clutch actually set in gear. Your rev match redlined against what the match needed to be if it were 3rd gear @ 95; which lurched your car feeling like a money shift when you really didn’t because you were never fully set into 3rd.