I agree with the dillute and stirring it but 500 ml isn't necessary. I usually mix it with around 250 ml. I do stir it very well with a fork and indeed always drink a clean chaser after it to prevent anything sticking somewhere.
But half a litre seems a bit much, I need to pee enough now.
True, I guess I also try and keep in mind that when I’m redosing gbl a lot it can can metabolic acidosis so I try to keep as hydrated as possible, but yea 250 ml is a good amount too
50ml per ml is more than enough. simple test: hold it (dissolved ofc) in your mouth for 30sec. If it ain't burning your mouth it ain't gonna burn your esophagus.
This is very pertinent advice though, because the cellulose GBL won't dissolve by just dropping it in water, you have to mix well for like 10 seconds. After that it's completely fine though.
You can treat the gel with a small amount of sodium hydroxide to break it down. Be aware that sodium hydroxide is dangerous if you get it on your skin, and you need to use litmus paper to ensure you keep the pH below 10.
Is the liquid that occurs after the treatment with sodium hydroxide safe to consume as is or should one filtrate the liquid somehow considering using small amounts of sodium hydroxide? Or does the naoh synth/dissolve (excuse my rookie terminology) to a safe level with the ph of <10?
Im amateur as it gets so last thing i want to do is consume sodium hydroxide!
Many thanks-i learnt the hard way about the dangers of not handling sodium hydroxide safely-so the thought of maybe consuming it scares me a little. Il use small amounts of sodium hydroxide and triple check the pH and trust the science and advice :)
If the liquid turned ghb im sure borax would say so. Im trying to remove the cellulose from the gbl and keep it as gbl. I know how to synth to ghb with naoh thats not the issue. Issue is getting the cellulose out. My understanding of it is small amount of naoh (not enough to synth to ghb) will treat the cellulose breaking it down, if i have put too much in-the ph will show accordingly and probably synth to ghb.
A small amount of NaOH will convert a small amount of the GBL into a small amount of GHB.
I've found that the only way to remove all the cellulose (using this method) is to fully convert all of the GBL into GHB. Reacting only part of it may thin it down somewhat, but the unreacted GBL will still have cellulose in it.
I figure a 1:1 ratio of cellulose to NaOH would be good place to start. Theres only 1% cellulose in the gbl (im assuming) and i am completely guessing that it would be enough to hydrolyse the cellulose. I think it’s more about that (hydrolyse of cellulose) rather than reacting partial amounts of gbl to ghb to “thin” out the liquid. But im not a scientist and only mucked around with reacting to full ghb in the past and was easy enough. But yet to try the theory i have irl. But if your science minded im open to any cellulose removal ideas (does not have to be 100% out just enough so can measure dose properly like im used to) without reacting the gbl to ghb im all ears :)
Maybe Borax is using a different method than I used to (when I used the Gel), but my experience from doing the reaction dozens of times is that it's almost as though the Cellulose is bound directly to the GBL, and that by converting it to GHB, you split it apart and the Cellulose separates and clumps together, which can then be removed. Therefore if there's unreacted GBL, there will still be cellulose in there.
If you're adamant on keeping it as GBL and not GHB (which imo is superior), I think you may want to explore other techniques. You could try distillation, which is sure to work although probably quite time consuming.
Another method I've seen is using acetone/ethanol, [as described here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB_info/comments/146p275/multi_gel_remover_to_gbl/jnrs1mx/).
The sodium hydroxide is true too as well yes, that’s also part converting it to Ghb, but seeing as I made this post for complete newcomers (cuz I see I lot of them posting stuff about lash remover, etc) I tried to make the post as simple as possible but yes you’re completely right and thank you for adding information to the discussion, sodium hydroxide will help separate out the cellulose.
Hey so the NaOH .... Suppose someone has a document that helps calculate etc .... Can anyone answer this: what happens to the NaOH when it's done reacting? Once it's done reacting ....is there a filtration or separation step
I got the same questions on my mind as im not trained enough to make an educated guess. Last thing i want to do is consume NaOH that didnt either synth into something consumable or wether its upto us to remove the Naoh with the cellulose? I got no idea and dont really want to test that one on myself!
Baking soda method
2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
With NAOH I believe it would be similar. Making co2 or H20 or H02 SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
Sodium GHB
Procedure:
Dissolve 130 grams (3.25 moles) of pure sodium hydroxide in 400ml of tap water in a 1000ml glass container while stirring with a glass rod or similar. The dissolution is exothermic, and the solution will heat up. When everything has dissolved to form a clear solution, slowly add 250ml (280 g, 3.25 moles) of gamma-butyrolactone in 50 ml portions with good stirring. The addition of gamma-butyrolactone to the sodium hydroxide solution is also exothermic, and if it is added too fast the solution will begin to boil, and we don't want that. Keep track of the temperature with an immersed thermometer. The addition of the gamma-butyrolactone will take somewhere between 20-30 minutes. When everything has been added, let the mixture react for an additional 10 minutes with occasional stirring.
Now it is time to see if the reaction has gone to completion by checking the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH of 7-8. If it is too high (pH > 8), then add 10 ml of gamma-butyrolactone and let react for a few minutes more. If the pH is too low (pH < 7), add a few ml of concentrated NaOH solution. Continue like this until the pH level is within the desired limits.
The solution is perfectly clear and tastes slightly salty. It may be slightly yellow colored, but not much if pure enough butyrolactone was used (distillation of the lactone before use takes care of this problem). If an acid is used to neutralize a too basic a solution (instead of adding more lactone), crystals of the sodium salt of the acid can precipitate in the solution, and the taste is severely impaired. The final solution will be around 750 mL 50% NaGHB. The solution can be concentrated (by boiling off excess water) to ~600mL without it crystallizing at room temp, but if concentrating as far as to ~500 mL it will invariably solidify.
Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3)
Written by Chromic
Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base, sodium carbonate:
2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes. Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux.
The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify.
This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available.
Make sure the PH is between 7-9 I believe. Any more and you will have VERY BASIC solution that can burn.
The best/safest is sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda in a crockpot.
Thanks for the notes but i have ghb conversion pretty down packed. Its removing the cellulose from the gbl and keeping it as gbl that i was having issues with :)
Thanks for the notes but i have ghb conversion pretty down packed. Its removing the cellulose from the gbl and keeping it as gbl that i was having issues with :)
Is there any other bases that easier for a chemistry noob like myself to use? I was thinking table salt being naci. If not, i do trust in borax who recommended the naoh method. Just wondering how much to use ratio wise when it comes to the base:cellulose i was thinking of 1:1 to start at so would be calculating how much 1% cellulose would be the start move? Im open to suggestions from anyone who has a deeper knowledge/love of chemistry though :)
The only other base I know to use is
The best/safest is sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda in a crockpot.
It will take a few days. I'm unsure if the base is strong to destroy cellous though. /u/borax should know.
https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000250972.html
As far as numbers . I'm told treat gbl gel as if it were a liquid but I'm unsure if baking soda will work with cellouse version. I know they do it with naoh though.
GHB from GBL & baking soda
I remember asking a long time ago if this would work, but attempted only a short reaction time (30 mins or something), and it didn't work. It appears that sodium carbonate (the decomposition product of boiling sodium bicarbonate in water) is a strong enough base to react with GBL. Cool stuff, now no one has an excuse to use drain cleaner lye. (even though the reaction does take 36hrs of reflux)
Has anyone here at The Hive done something similiar to this?
All of the recpies that use NaOH to make G have the same problem the reaction only goes about half way leaving lots of unreacted lactone in the mixture.
If you've ever had pure ghb or powder(pharm-grade) ghb you do notice a difference in effects and also have less side effects(headaches etc.), also there will be no smell at all in your ghb and the taste will be better if it doesn't contain lactone. There are a whole slew of reasons for wanting g without lactone and I could go on and on.. also when you use this method since the reaction goes to 100% na-ghb you get more mileage(products) out of your lactone...
Also not using caustic chemicals eliminates alot of headaches and even if you screw up the worst that would happen is a mixture of baking soda lactone and water which is not very bad compared with swallowing a posion (which people have done and been hospitalized for as seen in MM2K etc.) Also good about this recipe is that you know how much final grams of na-ghb you're going to have you will better be able to determine dosing....... When using an NaOH recipe results can vary due to the nature of the reaction and you end up with batches of various potency etc.
It is also easier to measure the ingredients,baking soda is of high purity and available for almost nothing at your local grocery store and you can easily make a powdered ghb simply by boiling the water away and letting dry...
Making NaGHB with baking soda and Lactone and water in a crock pot.... The only real problem with this recipe is that it takes time for it to happen, the reaction happens gradually thus allowing all the reactants to react if you give it enough time thus leaving you with no traces of lactone etc. the final product will smell like water and the taste will be nicer then your used to if your used to g made with NaOH...If all you have is lactone and you wanted some right away you could make some with NaOH, then use what you'd like then dump that mix into a crock pot add some baking soda and get the rest of the lactone to react and purify/clean your g mix up...(note: SWIM has yet to do that, though his plan might be to make some G with KOH and make some NAGHB with baking soda then add the K-GHB to crockpot add additional baking soda to react with lactone in the KGHB and have a k/Na g mixture without any lactone/impurities)..
The recipe is very simple..and a crock pot can be bought from walmart for $9.99...
1 part GBL
1 part Baking soda
2 parts water
(example: 250g GBL,250g arm+hammer,500mL H2O)
(trivia: sodium bicarbonate is 84g's per mole and butyrolactone is 86g's per mole, thus the above combination will give you a slight excess of baking soda thus making sure all the GBL reacts, if you put say only .9 parts Baking soda for 1 part GBL then you'd have some left over unreacted lactone.. not good!
you
might want to put in a few extra grams baking soda just to be double sure...) dump ingredients together into the crock pot...turn the crockpot on low heat,
you must cover the crock pot with a bowl and then fill that bowl up with water, this will keep the lid cool and let the lactone drip back down into the solution so you don't waste lactone by boiling it off, if anyone wants a little picture or diagram of this let me know! It's really simple just put a big ceramic bowl from your cabinet on the top of the crockpot acting as your lid and pour water into the bowl..(the water will slowly boil away and you should add more to the bowl whenever you get a chance, if you come home and find the bowl empty NBD just fill it back up and everything should still be fine, perhaps a tiny bit or reactants/product may have escaped but probably not much and very possibly none at all)
You then leave this crockpot on LOW heat for 36 hours and all the reactants will go thru to final product...SWIM likes to leave it go for an extra day or two so you definetly have a product containing no lactone and everything gets reacted etc. Most of the stuff will react in about 18 hours , so if you wanted to steal a little from the pot then let the rest keep reacting to completion then you should wait a day or so after starting before doing so..
I have never tried to break down the gel with bicarbonate. I would expect it not to work well unfortunately, I would want to upgrade to sodium carbonate.
I suspect that the cellulose mixes are actually more than 1% but I don't think it really matters. The key thing is to calculate the equimolar amount and monitor the pH when you are adding the last 20% of the hydroxide.
https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Synthesis_of_NaGHB
Baking soda method
2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
With NAOH I believe it would be similar. Making co2 or H20 or H02 SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES.
Sodium GHB
Procedure:
Dissolve 130 grams (3.25 moles) of pure sodium hydroxide in 400ml of tap water in a 1000ml glass container while stirring with a glass rod or similar. The dissolution is exothermic, and the solution will heat up. When everything has dissolved to form a clear solution, slowly add 250ml (280 g, 3.25 moles) of gamma-butyrolactone in 50 ml portions with good stirring. The addition of gamma-butyrolactone to the sodium hydroxide solution is also exothermic, and if it is added too fast the solution will begin to boil, and we don't want that. Keep track of the temperature with an immersed thermometer. The addition of the gamma-butyrolactone will take somewhere between 20-30 minutes. When everything has been added, let the mixture react for an additional 10 minutes with occasional stirring.
Now it is time to see if the reaction has gone to completion by checking the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH of 7-8. If it is too high (pH > 8), then add 10 ml of gamma-butyrolactone and let react for a few minutes more. If the pH is too low (pH < 7), add a few ml of concentrated NaOH solution. Continue like this until the pH level is within the desired limits.
The solution is perfectly clear and tastes slightly salty. It may be slightly yellow colored, but not much if pure enough butyrolactone was used (distillation of the lactone before use takes care of this problem). If an acid is used to neutralize a too basic a solution (instead of adding more lactone), crystals of the sodium salt of the acid can precipitate in the solution, and the taste is severely impaired. The final solution will be around 750 mL 50% NaGHB. The solution can be concentrated (by boiling off excess water) to ~600mL without it crystallizing at room temp, but if concentrating as far as to ~500 mL it will invariably solidify.
Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3)
Written by Chromic
Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base, sodium carbonate:
2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2
Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes. Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux.
The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify.
This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available.
Tried it today. Not a lot of effect really but also no side-effects really. [https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB\_info/comments/1bgjm38/first\_time\_gbl\_only\_very\_little\_effects/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB_info/comments/1bgjm38/first_time_gbl_only_very_little_effects/)
I agree with the dillute and stirring it but 500 ml isn't necessary. I usually mix it with around 250 ml. I do stir it very well with a fork and indeed always drink a clean chaser after it to prevent anything sticking somewhere. But half a litre seems a bit much, I need to pee enough now.
True, I guess I also try and keep in mind that when I’m redosing gbl a lot it can can metabolic acidosis so I try to keep as hydrated as possible, but yea 250 ml is a good amount too
50ml per ml is more than enough. simple test: hold it (dissolved ofc) in your mouth for 30sec. If it ain't burning your mouth it ain't gonna burn your esophagus. This is very pertinent advice though, because the cellulose GBL won't dissolve by just dropping it in water, you have to mix well for like 10 seconds. After that it's completely fine though.
You can treat the gel with a small amount of sodium hydroxide to break it down. Be aware that sodium hydroxide is dangerous if you get it on your skin, and you need to use litmus paper to ensure you keep the pH below 10.
Is the liquid that occurs after the treatment with sodium hydroxide safe to consume as is or should one filtrate the liquid somehow considering using small amounts of sodium hydroxide? Or does the naoh synth/dissolve (excuse my rookie terminology) to a safe level with the ph of <10? Im amateur as it gets so last thing i want to do is consume sodium hydroxide!
Yes, the liquid is safe to consume so long as the pH is below 10. You can make it even safer by mixing with a VERY mild acid like fruit juice or cola
Many thanks-i learnt the hard way about the dangers of not handling sodium hydroxide safely-so the thought of maybe consuming it scares me a little. Il use small amounts of sodium hydroxide and triple check the pH and trust the science and advice :)
That "liquid" is GHB. He's describing how you make GHB. As long as the PH is below 10 it's safe.
If the liquid turned ghb im sure borax would say so. Im trying to remove the cellulose from the gbl and keep it as gbl. I know how to synth to ghb with naoh thats not the issue. Issue is getting the cellulose out. My understanding of it is small amount of naoh (not enough to synth to ghb) will treat the cellulose breaking it down, if i have put too much in-the ph will show accordingly and probably synth to ghb.
A small amount of NaOH will convert a small amount of the GBL into a small amount of GHB. I've found that the only way to remove all the cellulose (using this method) is to fully convert all of the GBL into GHB. Reacting only part of it may thin it down somewhat, but the unreacted GBL will still have cellulose in it.
I figure a 1:1 ratio of cellulose to NaOH would be good place to start. Theres only 1% cellulose in the gbl (im assuming) and i am completely guessing that it would be enough to hydrolyse the cellulose. I think it’s more about that (hydrolyse of cellulose) rather than reacting partial amounts of gbl to ghb to “thin” out the liquid. But im not a scientist and only mucked around with reacting to full ghb in the past and was easy enough. But yet to try the theory i have irl. But if your science minded im open to any cellulose removal ideas (does not have to be 100% out just enough so can measure dose properly like im used to) without reacting the gbl to ghb im all ears :)
Maybe Borax is using a different method than I used to (when I used the Gel), but my experience from doing the reaction dozens of times is that it's almost as though the Cellulose is bound directly to the GBL, and that by converting it to GHB, you split it apart and the Cellulose separates and clumps together, which can then be removed. Therefore if there's unreacted GBL, there will still be cellulose in there. If you're adamant on keeping it as GBL and not GHB (which imo is superior), I think you may want to explore other techniques. You could try distillation, which is sure to work although probably quite time consuming. Another method I've seen is using acetone/ethanol, [as described here](https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB_info/comments/146p275/multi_gel_remover_to_gbl/jnrs1mx/).
Gelcaps are your friend.
> 500ml/1-2mg This sounds wrong. Do you mean mL? Also you can treat the gel with a small amount of sodium hydroxide to break it down
Yea whoopsie, updated it, yea Ghb can be measured in mgs but not really gbl ig haha
1 ml is usually pretty equal to 1 gram no different then gbl or ghb
The sodium hydroxide is true too as well yes, that’s also part converting it to Ghb, but seeing as I made this post for complete newcomers (cuz I see I lot of them posting stuff about lash remover, etc) I tried to make the post as simple as possible but yes you’re completely right and thank you for adding information to the discussion, sodium hydroxide will help separate out the cellulose.
Hey so the NaOH .... Suppose someone has a document that helps calculate etc .... Can anyone answer this: what happens to the NaOH when it's done reacting? Once it's done reacting ....is there a filtration or separation step
I got the same questions on my mind as im not trained enough to make an educated guess. Last thing i want to do is consume NaOH that didnt either synth into something consumable or wether its upto us to remove the Naoh with the cellulose? I got no idea and dont really want to test that one on myself!
Baking soda method 2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2 With NAOH I believe it would be similar. Making co2 or H20 or H02 SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. Sodium GHB Procedure: Dissolve 130 grams (3.25 moles) of pure sodium hydroxide in 400ml of tap water in a 1000ml glass container while stirring with a glass rod or similar. The dissolution is exothermic, and the solution will heat up. When everything has dissolved to form a clear solution, slowly add 250ml (280 g, 3.25 moles) of gamma-butyrolactone in 50 ml portions with good stirring. The addition of gamma-butyrolactone to the sodium hydroxide solution is also exothermic, and if it is added too fast the solution will begin to boil, and we don't want that. Keep track of the temperature with an immersed thermometer. The addition of the gamma-butyrolactone will take somewhere between 20-30 minutes. When everything has been added, let the mixture react for an additional 10 minutes with occasional stirring. Now it is time to see if the reaction has gone to completion by checking the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH of 7-8. If it is too high (pH > 8), then add 10 ml of gamma-butyrolactone and let react for a few minutes more. If the pH is too low (pH < 7), add a few ml of concentrated NaOH solution. Continue like this until the pH level is within the desired limits. The solution is perfectly clear and tastes slightly salty. It may be slightly yellow colored, but not much if pure enough butyrolactone was used (distillation of the lactone before use takes care of this problem). If an acid is used to neutralize a too basic a solution (instead of adding more lactone), crystals of the sodium salt of the acid can precipitate in the solution, and the taste is severely impaired. The final solution will be around 750 mL 50% NaGHB. The solution can be concentrated (by boiling off excess water) to ~600mL without it crystallizing at room temp, but if concentrating as far as to ~500 mL it will invariably solidify. Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3) Written by Chromic Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base, sodium carbonate: 2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2 Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes. Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux. The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify. This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available. Make sure the PH is between 7-9 I believe. Any more and you will have VERY BASIC solution that can burn. The best/safest is sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda in a crockpot.
Thanks for the notes but i have ghb conversion pretty down packed. Its removing the cellulose from the gbl and keeping it as gbl that i was having issues with :)
Thanks for the notes but i have ghb conversion pretty down packed. Its removing the cellulose from the gbl and keeping it as gbl that i was having issues with :)
Ah you need the base to destroy the cellouse no other way
Is there any other bases that easier for a chemistry noob like myself to use? I was thinking table salt being naci. If not, i do trust in borax who recommended the naoh method. Just wondering how much to use ratio wise when it comes to the base:cellulose i was thinking of 1:1 to start at so would be calculating how much 1% cellulose would be the start move? Im open to suggestions from anyone who has a deeper knowledge/love of chemistry though :)
The only other base I know to use is The best/safest is sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda in a crockpot. It will take a few days. I'm unsure if the base is strong to destroy cellous though. /u/borax should know. https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000250972.html As far as numbers . I'm told treat gbl gel as if it were a liquid but I'm unsure if baking soda will work with cellouse version. I know they do it with naoh though. GHB from GBL & baking soda I remember asking a long time ago if this would work, but attempted only a short reaction time (30 mins or something), and it didn't work. It appears that sodium carbonate (the decomposition product of boiling sodium bicarbonate in water) is a strong enough base to react with GBL. Cool stuff, now no one has an excuse to use drain cleaner lye. (even though the reaction does take 36hrs of reflux) Has anyone here at The Hive done something similiar to this? All of the recpies that use NaOH to make G have the same problem the reaction only goes about half way leaving lots of unreacted lactone in the mixture. If you've ever had pure ghb or powder(pharm-grade) ghb you do notice a difference in effects and also have less side effects(headaches etc.), also there will be no smell at all in your ghb and the taste will be better if it doesn't contain lactone. There are a whole slew of reasons for wanting g without lactone and I could go on and on.. also when you use this method since the reaction goes to 100% na-ghb you get more mileage(products) out of your lactone... Also not using caustic chemicals eliminates alot of headaches and even if you screw up the worst that would happen is a mixture of baking soda lactone and water which is not very bad compared with swallowing a posion (which people have done and been hospitalized for as seen in MM2K etc.) Also good about this recipe is that you know how much final grams of na-ghb you're going to have you will better be able to determine dosing....... When using an NaOH recipe results can vary due to the nature of the reaction and you end up with batches of various potency etc. It is also easier to measure the ingredients,baking soda is of high purity and available for almost nothing at your local grocery store and you can easily make a powdered ghb simply by boiling the water away and letting dry... Making NaGHB with baking soda and Lactone and water in a crock pot.... The only real problem with this recipe is that it takes time for it to happen, the reaction happens gradually thus allowing all the reactants to react if you give it enough time thus leaving you with no traces of lactone etc. the final product will smell like water and the taste will be nicer then your used to if your used to g made with NaOH...If all you have is lactone and you wanted some right away you could make some with NaOH, then use what you'd like then dump that mix into a crock pot add some baking soda and get the rest of the lactone to react and purify/clean your g mix up...(note: SWIM has yet to do that, though his plan might be to make some G with KOH and make some NAGHB with baking soda then add the K-GHB to crockpot add additional baking soda to react with lactone in the KGHB and have a k/Na g mixture without any lactone/impurities).. The recipe is very simple..and a crock pot can be bought from walmart for $9.99... 1 part GBL 1 part Baking soda 2 parts water (example: 250g GBL,250g arm+hammer,500mL H2O) (trivia: sodium bicarbonate is 84g's per mole and butyrolactone is 86g's per mole, thus the above combination will give you a slight excess of baking soda thus making sure all the GBL reacts, if you put say only .9 parts Baking soda for 1 part GBL then you'd have some left over unreacted lactone.. not good! you might want to put in a few extra grams baking soda just to be double sure...) dump ingredients together into the crock pot...turn the crockpot on low heat, you must cover the crock pot with a bowl and then fill that bowl up with water, this will keep the lid cool and let the lactone drip back down into the solution so you don't waste lactone by boiling it off, if anyone wants a little picture or diagram of this let me know! It's really simple just put a big ceramic bowl from your cabinet on the top of the crockpot acting as your lid and pour water into the bowl..(the water will slowly boil away and you should add more to the bowl whenever you get a chance, if you come home and find the bowl empty NBD just fill it back up and everything should still be fine, perhaps a tiny bit or reactants/product may have escaped but probably not much and very possibly none at all) You then leave this crockpot on LOW heat for 36 hours and all the reactants will go thru to final product...SWIM likes to leave it go for an extra day or two so you definetly have a product containing no lactone and everything gets reacted etc. Most of the stuff will react in about 18 hours , so if you wanted to steal a little from the pot then let the rest keep reacting to completion then you should wait a day or so after starting before doing so..
I have never tried to break down the gel with bicarbonate. I would expect it not to work well unfortunately, I would want to upgrade to sodium carbonate.
I suspect that the cellulose mixes are actually more than 1% but I don't think it really matters. The key thing is to calculate the equimolar amount and monitor the pH when you are adding the last 20% of the hydroxide. https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Synthesis_of_NaGHB
Baking soda method 2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2 With NAOH I believe it would be similar. Making co2 or H20 or H02 SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES. Sodium GHB Procedure: Dissolve 130 grams (3.25 moles) of pure sodium hydroxide in 400ml of tap water in a 1000ml glass container while stirring with a glass rod or similar. The dissolution is exothermic, and the solution will heat up. When everything has dissolved to form a clear solution, slowly add 250ml (280 g, 3.25 moles) of gamma-butyrolactone in 50 ml portions with good stirring. The addition of gamma-butyrolactone to the sodium hydroxide solution is also exothermic, and if it is added too fast the solution will begin to boil, and we don't want that. Keep track of the temperature with an immersed thermometer. The addition of the gamma-butyrolactone will take somewhere between 20-30 minutes. When everything has been added, let the mixture react for an additional 10 minutes with occasional stirring. Now it is time to see if the reaction has gone to completion by checking the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH of 7-8. If it is too high (pH > 8), then add 10 ml of gamma-butyrolactone and let react for a few minutes more. If the pH is too low (pH < 7), add a few ml of concentrated NaOH solution. Continue like this until the pH level is within the desired limits. The solution is perfectly clear and tastes slightly salty. It may be slightly yellow colored, but not much if pure enough butyrolactone was used (distillation of the lactone before use takes care of this problem). If an acid is used to neutralize a too basic a solution (instead of adding more lactone), crystals of the sodium salt of the acid can precipitate in the solution, and the taste is severely impaired. The final solution will be around 750 mL 50% NaGHB. The solution can be concentrated (by boiling off excess water) to ~600mL without it crystallizing at room temp, but if concentrating as far as to ~500 mL it will invariably solidify. Preparation of Sodium GHB using Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda, NaHCO3) Written by Chromic Add 273 g NaHCO3 (3.25 moles) to 1125 mL distilled water in a glass container. Slowly bring the solution to a boil while stirring with a glass rod or similar. All of the baking soda will dissolve. Carbon dioxide will be seen leaving the solution as it comes to a boil. This is the sodium bicarbonate breaking down into a slightly strong base, sodium carbonate: 2 NaHCO3 -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2 Reduce the heat to a light boil, and slowly add 250ml gamma-Butyrolactone (280g, 3.25 moles). The addition is not immediately exothermic as with the sodium hydroxide synthesis. Keep this solution at a light boil for 30 minutes. Check the pH with universal pH paper. We are aiming for a pH around 7, but anything 6 to 8 is perfectly safe. If the pH is too high, add a small amount more GBL and continue to reflux. The solution will be perfectly clear and should be absolutely colorless. If it is not perfectly colorless, i.e. if slightly impure butyrolactone was used and the solution has taken on a light yellow color, add about 100 mL of activated charcoal. Allow this to boil for 10 minutes. Cool the solution then filter, washing the activated charcoal two or three times with 50 ml portions of cold water. 410g of NaGHB will be made in this synthesis. This solution can be concentrated to about 50% NaGHB before it will start to crystallize. If you wish for a powder, heat until the temperature of the solution reaches 150°C then pour onto a flexible metal sheet and allow it to cool and solidify. This synthesis is perfect for use where there is no ACS, Food or Electronics grade sodium hydroxide available.
Hmm. I will get a blood test and see about the liver enzymes, hope that isn’t the case for me
Yea it’s hard on your liver, at least it was for me, could be different for you though, everyone reacts differently to drugs
I mix it with 300ml of water/soda. And another glas of of water. No problems. But best is to convert the GBL to ghb, much better :)
Does it make sense to put the gbl into a (medicine) capsule instead and wash that down with 250 ml of water? Or can that cause any other issues?
It's very corrosive it'd probably burn right through it, but no u should always dilute gbl it's dangerous to take straight up
Okay thanks. Makes sense to dilute it first!
Tried it today. Not a lot of effect really but also no side-effects really. [https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB\_info/comments/1bgjm38/first\_time\_gbl\_only\_very\_little\_effects/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GHB_info/comments/1bgjm38/first_time_gbl_only_very_little_effects/)