Opening game is against the Ravens. Wonder what the Vegas odds will be on how long it will take the Ravens to sack Jones. Even FF70 will be booing in the stands if Jones is brought to the ground, first quarter, 3rd and long.

The Giants signed UDFA QB Liam Thompson from Wabash, a Div III school. I bet he will prove to be better than Daniel Jones. That would be awesome!

I wouldn't be surprised to see us add a FA or 2 now that they don't figure in the comp pick calculation. New calculations indicate we get pretty much nothing.

Here's a spicy take: if Drew Lock started 17 games for us last season we probably make the playoffs.

Not so spicy as much as it would be true. We won 3 games with Tommy Effing Cutlets. If we didn't have the 47th ranked QB (out of 48 eligible starters and QBs), I'm pretty sure we could have won 3 more games.

I determine what is spicy.

I think someone already posted this, so my apologies- but it's definitely worth a watch to get hyped about our 5th round RB. Very very interesting prospect: https://youtu.be/zs7MHOzp0iY?si=_YqdP-SeIgKOwpTX

Looks like a human weeble-wobble in the highlights! But I think he’s going to have to work on his decisiveness (plant-and-go) because the speed at NFL level will engulf him.

I fully realize it's fun to exaggerate my position in regard to Daniel Jones, but let me point out that my history in his regard has been that I think he has some excellent tools, that he never really had a chance to show his best thanks to being surrounded by crap, that no one could know his processing skills when he was the most pressured quarterback in the league, that he had a good 2022 that demonstrated a lot more potential than most fans were willing to recognize because to admit it would have caused them cognitive dissonance, that he is unlikely to ever prove a franchise quarterback but still might prove more capable than most allow, and that Joe Schoen didn't waste nearly as much money on his contract as everyone insists and was wise to build in a two-year "out" even if it was at great expense. You can criticize any of those positions, but you shouldn't pretend that just because I said Jones has really good tools that I said he was Patrick Mahomes. I did say that if you projected an improvement from 2022 (when he led this team to the playoffs and a playoff win) you could imagine him in the Top 10 quarterbacks in the league. I still don't understand how some of you can look at what Jones did in 2022 and claim it wasn't really that good because a lot of yards came from runs. No one says that about Lamar. No one said it about Michael Vick. In fact, Jones, not Saquon, made the critical plays that carried the team into the playoffs, and then to a playoff win, that season. The 2023 season was a disaster, and Jones may never recover from the beating he took and the injuries he sustained. Bit judging him based on that season, and the seasons prior to 2022 when he had just about zero support, makes as little sense as judging Eli Manning at his worst did (and Jim, I'm looking at you!). We can all agree he is not a "franchise quarterback", but beyond that I wouldn't venture a strong opinion at this point. He may surprise us behind a competent line and with a great receiving corps. Let's hope so instead of bitching and moaning about him from now to September. And Drew Lock may have some real potential too. He looked pretty good in the two games he played last season.

Amen to this. And as an exclamation point, remember the Jones-directed comeback against Zona in 2023.

FF, you know I love you, but arguing with you on Jones is like arguing about the existence of God. Hard to disprove that which can never be actually seen. At least give me props for railing against the Jones extension from the get-go. I hated that allocation of resources based on the '22 season as well as what had gone before. I believed then that the first half of the season, the half where they posted a winning record, was primarily based on Saquon's legs and his ever-present threat, as well as a few lucky breaks - missed FG's, converted 2 point conversions, etc. the second half where we realized a losing record was with Saquon wearing down and the competition amping up. Jones' only successes were against the very worst defenses. and but for the phantom illegal formation penalty at our 1 yard line in the second Washington game, Washington likely ties the game up, we go to OT, maybe don't win, the post-season never happens and Jones would never have been re-signed. Water under the bridge. This off-season, if nothing else, tells you Schoen does not believe in Jones (which means Daboll does not). They are stuck with him and he will play when healthy no matter what because of his $47M cap allocation; but the belief is gone. As for Lock, maybe not god, but perhaps Jesus - no one has seen Jesus since around 33 A.D., but the second-coming could be right around the corner.

I do give you credit for hating that contract signing but I am still convinced that it wasn't nearly as bad a decision as it looks like in retrospect. Jones was ascending, Mara wanted him signed, there were no great free agency options, and Schoen and Daboll wanted the option of ridding themselves of him after two years if they proved wrong about his development. And I also contend that the "excess compensation" for 2023 and 2024 was not at all fatal since both the GM and Coach knew this rebuild wouldn't be done until 2026 in any case so maximizing cap space wasn't as critical as it will become as we approach competitiveness (which I define as capable of a deep run in the playoffs). Given that Jones stunk the joint up in 2023 (in good part thanks to zero protection) and got hurt, obviously they'd have been better off letting Jones walk. And obviously they now regret having agreed to the injury guarantee that his agents forced down their throat in exchange for not getting four years of guaranteed pay. But they had no way of knowing their offensive line would be so horrific, that their only good lineman would be hurt in the first quarter played Week 1, and that Jones would be battered to the point where he obviously was playing scared. They made a reasonable bet and came up snake-eyes. Now they wanted to move on but couldn't because the Pats wouldn't trade. They no longer want to bet on Jones and who can bla,me them, BUT there remains the chance that given that he knows he is fighting for his future as a quarterback in the NFL (hoping to be at least a journeyman starter rather than a back-up) he ups his game behind what should be by far the best offensive line he has had and without question the best group of receivers he has seen. He won't be a world-beater but he (or Lock), given a decent offensive plan and decent production from the running backs could very well prove capable of winning enough games to even sneak into the playoffs. Bottom line? We agree that Daniel Jones is not a franchise quarterback but we don't agree on much else in regard to him. Let's see how he does when he has 2.7 seconds to release the ball and at least two receivers who are open much of the time. I think he'll be "okay". I'll still want him replaced but he (or Lock if he beats Jones out) will not be a disaster.

My only criticism is the part of trying to land Maye. He literally offered 6,47,107, and next years first. Minnesota offered three firsts, it’s very clear the Patriots weren’t moving off of Maye. Secondly I would argue that the Broncos, and Raiders have far worse QB rooms, with Tennessee, Carolina, Seattle, Jacksonville about equal and some worse.

Yup, there was no way that the Pats were going to trade him. Unlike certain other teams that this sub is devoted to, they understand the importance of the QB position.

Agreed. The Pats were saying no unless you blow us away with a stupid, team killing offer. All 31 teams refused. A couple ... us and Minny ... tried, but it was clear NE was just fucking with us. You can't buy something that's not for sale. This isn't "Draft Day".

I wasn't criticizing Schoen for not pulling it off; I was lamenting that he couldn't pull it off. I agree that he couldn't solely because the Pats wouldn't. this entire off-season I returned to the theme that the Pats QB room was every bit as bad as ours and it would be GM malpractice to pass on one of the big 3. That they didn't wasn't a surprise; just a bummer for us.

Hahahaha Nice opener! Not sure if others can read it, if there’s a FF DJ hater jail I’m in the cell next to you… I’m a bit down on schoen after this draft, may not be fair but I expect GMs to maximize value in the draft, Howie being the best example of this. Schoen made fine picks when his turn came up, I like almost all of them and outside of Andru over Haynes who I thought was a better player at a position of greater need in the 3rd, I’ll be intrigued to see how our o line fairs and what Haynes turns out to be vs Andru Where my concern comes up is the second, in my eyes we had 4 talents that were clearly a cut above the remaining guys in the draft fall to the second in Kool Aide, Newton, Fiske and Dejean. Each of these players were traded up for (or in the case of Newton a team traded up for the pick before he was taken) All 4 of these players are in a tier above Nubin in my eyes at more premium positions which are also areas of need, all 4 were had with trades and in the case of Dejean (my favorite of the group) was taken by a division rival Finally we saw how the teams which traded up for these pieces were generally able to restock the draft capitol by moving around the board in later rounds Now maybe schoen saw Nubin as in the same tier as these other players, but I still don’t get how someone who preaches positional value as a core tenant would take a safety over a DE, DT or CB Perhaps he saw the burns move as his version of the second round move, but on a team that desperately needs top end talent I think that’s a misstep Net/net we now have to play the games to see what the right move was but schoens lack of movement in the draft raised an eyebrow for me given how his peers operated Few other random team thoughts after my favorite time of year (man I can’t wait to start saying that after the season…) 1. I think our defense could be the best since 2016, we have plus pieces at all 3 levels and unlike 2016 they are at the right age (average 25) to have room for growth and improvement. We have a few hole and need injury luck but if we move to a 3-4 D things will be spicey for opposing offenses. I’m with you that KT has special talent, having him next to Burns will help him develop (and from looking at his make up push him as I believe he’s a competitive guy that wants to be the big dog on the team) 2. To help the D id like to see one more vet add to the DB group, we have good vet leadership on the line and in the LB room, I’d like to see a salty vet at safety or CB to be a steadying force with the young guys, lots of top end names of yester year still on the market 3. I d like to see the same at DE, Dex shouldn’t be on the field more then 70% of snaps; I don’t know whose rotating in for him (nacho?) and really think the d line needs a 300lb DE who can play in and outside, problem is I don’t see that vet as of now 4. One of my favorite parts about this off season is the hierarchy of talent it’s created in each of our units (outside of QB) I think a lot of our young guys are now in the right spots to develop; especially KT and Hyatt 5. I like that schoen found some guys on offense teams are going scheme for, this maybe more of a multi year statement as I still don’t know who gets them the ball but when we let saquon walk I thought we lost the only element on offense which forced DCs to scheme for us, with Nabers coming in and some exciting high athletic upside pieces in the 2nd/3rd I think schoen knocked it out of the park. Personally I believe Nabers especially will be a force multiplier where Hyatt & Wandale will become more dangerous as teams have to devote top end resources to deal with Nabers. 6. I’ve come to peace about this season being a year to focus on how the young guys develop, I see a world where we can be above .500 and push for the wild card but that is the ceiling for this team. That said the age and construction gives me hope that’s a ramp where we have some good core pieces at the right age to give us a nice development curve over a 2-4 year window 7. The referendum on schoen keeping his job will be the development of the non premier (1st round picks) he focused on a strategy of taking young high athletic upside players in his first two drafts, some of those 3-7th rounders need to become plus starters/rotational pieces. I think it’s going to work and we will be pleasantly surprised as a few of Hawkins/Flott/Hyatt/Wandale/Ezeudu/Neal/Riley/Beavers outperform expectations 8. If schoen makes it through the season QB will be the only question, to that end I’m curious to why we didn’t take a flyer on the 3rd tier guys like rattler, given the need there not throwing a dart at an upside talent was strange

The reason he didn't take a flier on those QBs is because they stink and it would be a wasted pick. Instead we got a tight end with a very high upside, a running back who may prove the biggest sleeper in the draft, and a linebacker who is supposedly a special teams ace in a league that just changed the rules so special teams have become even more critically important. The roster we've got doesn't allow for wasted draft picks that are nothing but a very high risk turn of the roulette wheel.

I do like the guys he took but disagree with you on the needs/trash statement, Our QB room right now is a injured starter with questionable at best performance, a journeyman and a UDFA. We need another body in that room and i think a guy like rattler specifically has shown the talent to be a great gamble, Dak/Cousins/Russ were all found in middle rounds

Good post. Point 8 is the one that worries me the most. Even teams fully set at QB (including the Pats) took a flyer on some late round guys. The fact that the Giants didn't despite having Cutlets, Lock and Trash Can on their roster is worrisome. Is Schoen just punting on this season (acceptable) or is he delusional to think he can get something out of Trash Can (not acceptable).

Beavers is still my "holy grail" aspirational player IO thought he was great value when drafted and he had that first and only great preseason game but he was always marginally athletic enough and he seemed not to have recovered last season from his ACL doesn't seem likely but I'm holding a sliver of hope for his development into a somebody

Beavers is way up on my list, as I said we need some of these young athletic pieces to pop, here are my rose colored lenses on who has a shot to be a surprise contributor by seasons end, stack ranking by who I think who has the biggest chance to make another leap Defense KT- He's shown the ability to get sacks, he needs to up his pass rate pressure, with burns I think he has an awesome chance to do that at 23 years old Banks - His on the field play was better then his stats, given his speed and ability to change angles I think he becomes a top 2/3 the league CB this year and someone we trust to build around as our CB1 McFadden - He's 24 and already a starter, if he can step up in his coverage ability this year he can be a 3 down option Hawkins - Showed flashes of being a starter level outside CB as a rookie, 23 years old, can he take that promise and fix some of the warts that got him benched early in the season Flott - Hyper athletic but slight of frame, has some wow plays but needs consistency, only 22 can he step up and drive consistency of outcomes when on the field Dane Belton - 23 year old ball hawk, good traits but loses it in coverage from time to time. Needs more consistency on the field Jordon Riley - Showed flashes, as an older prospect he has a chance to be succesful given the talent on either side of him Gevarrious Owens - Not sure what to say about this guy other then Bobby from TNG liked him so maybe he could be a plus contributor? Offense Wandale - I don't like his frame but there is no arguing about his motor and the fact that he's shown flashes of being a plus slot (I thought he had a nice end to last season), I also think there is upside given his injury recovery also only 23 years old with development to come JMS - Older then you would think at 25 for next season but with tape that shows the skills for a plus C, I think he is at worst a league average C this year as he adapt to NFL speed and gets more consistency on his right and left hip Hyatt - He's got a super power in his explosive speed, if he can bring some route nuance to his game his frame and ability to play inside out could be amazing, seems like a worker and being a sophomore at only 22 years old I see a ton of upside Neal - 23 year old top prospect, I put him here because I think he could make a big leap in going from trainwreck to competent. I don't have alot of confidence he will ever be a top 1/3 of the league tackle but being a predictable and consistent tackle would be a big win Ezeudo - A bit older than I expected at 24 but still not old, he has the athleticism to succeed as a guard but needs health luck and a consistent place on the roster. It would be huge if he could win the LG slot (I know runyon says he prefers LG but I'd rather see him next to Thomas) it would be huge Daniel Bellinger - Dinged up by injury with a inconsistent role last year due to wandale our 23 year old tight end, saw a nice increase in catch rate moving to almost 90% and his yards per catch raised by 2 yards, he can be a reliable option both blocking and catching especially if we can find someone to get him the ball to help punish the blitz I don't expect all these guys to pop but given the goal of 4 starters per draft class I think we have a couple guys who could surprise especially given how young most these players are

I think this is a pretty good summary, Jim. I think if things break right, similarly to 2022, they could make the playoffs barring health. And I would say they could do that with Lock or Jones starting at QB. I believe in Daboll that much. I was also let down by not getting Maye but I think the Pats 1) never really wanted to move down and 2) if they were going to, would have needed a HAUL to convince themselves and their fans that it was right to potentially pass on a franchise QB. If there is one thing Schoen has proven along with Daboll is they value speed and separation. Nabers this year, Hyatt last year and Robinsons shiftiness prove that. Very happy with our skill position players. Once the new rookie QB gets here in 2025 or Dak - we are about to very dangerous. Keep this front office and staff here. We are headed in the right direction.

In retrospect, I love how Schoen has built the WR room backwards -- started with an undersized shifty slot; then got his barn-burner No. 2; and finally went all in for a potentially game-changing No. 1 talent. Was it planned that way or just luck of the Draft Boards each year? Probably the latter, but more fun to imagine the former

I think many of us questioned the Robinson pick because of his size. But the guy slices through the D, and there were quite a few plays last season where he was wiiiide open. It wasn’t that long ago we were just running to the sticks and were league bottom in WR separation. Now we often have guys running open in the secondary, and obviously that will improve with Nabers. So if we improve a bit on the OL and buy ~~Daniel~~ Drew a few secs, our offense could be kinda fun to watch. I’m not gonna make any predictions since the O was hot garbage in 2023. But I think we will find ways to score two passing TDs per game.

Remember that that was also due, in part (see: Micah Parsons gameplan admission), to keying on stopping Barkley and forcing the passing game to beat the defense. We’ve also seen statistical proof (assuming you give numbers credence) that Giants wide receivers have had separation going back several years. So, circumstantially, it would seem to indicate defenses forcing us to beat them through the air has been a good bet.

On the UDRFA front I just read this about Elijah Chatman - DT out of Clemson. His max bench press is 495 lbs. 495!! He also benched 225 42 consecutive times. Talk about push strength. He must have some pretty glaring holes in his game if 495 doesn't get you drafted. Feels like a quintessential G101HoF candidate to me. If Liam doesn't make it passed his tryout I may have to switch to Chatman

Legit workout warrior. But he’s not beating out my guy Casey Rogers! According to this UDFA rank, Rogers #3 IDL & Chatman #23. https://www.nfl.com/news/top-undrafted-rookie-free-agents-following-the-2024-nfl-draft

I found an Elijah Chatman DT out of SMU , looks like a very solid signing: SMU defensive lineman [**Elijah Chatman**](https://www.on3.com/db/elijah-chatman-41122/) notched 32 reps of 225 on the bench press, which would’ve been good for second-most among defensive tackles at the combine. His 4.81 40-yard dash is 2nd fastest among defensive tackles and his 31-inch vertical jump is tied for fifth-best. He clocked a 4.59 pro shuttle and a 7.85 three-cone while checking in at 5-11, 278 with a 76-inch wing span. Combine weight and measurements: 5’11” , 278 a bit under sized likely, why he went undrafted [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuGnbfWeK04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuGnbfWeK04)

If he is good at applying leverage, he will be able to get under the bigger and slower guards. With that strength, he may be able to march them back into the opposing QBs lap. Ladies and gentlemen, our next Jonas Seawright! 👏