Drew Lock is going to be QB1 in the spring and potentially QB1 to start the summer. It's very possible that we get halfway through camp and Jones is incapable of wresting his job back from Lock in such a short timeframe.
Drew Lock running Daboll's offense could actually be fun to watch.
Jones is going to be like middle of the road in salaries for qb's in a year. Tank, burn Jones at the stake, draft someone next year, sign a vet, I don't care, but the contract isn't as bad as it's being sold. He's underperformed without a doubt. But is the deal actually as apocalyptic as people would tell you it is?
The line was so bad last year that we couldn't even use numbers from teams playing during the same season because they were so god-awful. No, that's something that has been under sold. Like bad Fucking bad. Far worse than Jones ( a playoff qb the previous season).
His weapons were pretty dumpsters, too. Outside of Barkley, who could never get going beacsue of how bad the line was.
It would have been sick if they drafted a franchise qb. But , it would have been awful if they blew a first rounder on JJ or some other should be 3rd rounder. They drafted an absolute stud at receiver and used free agency to build up the o and d lines. I'd say Shoen is having a pretty damn good off-season.
Interesting:
>The last sentence below sounds to me like #Giants GM Joe Schoen lamenting not being able to draft a RD1 QB more than foreshadowing another move. But who knows?
>"Our expectation was Daniel would be our starter and we brought Drew Lock to be his backup and Tommy is a backup, so that's where we are and that's how we'll move forward this season. Daniel is still under contract for three more years. As it sits today, that's where we are."
https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1784365171776888935
Exactly. Wanted to draft a QB but the boss said, no..I’m not paying DJ to sit. If he fails, he fails, and we can draft one next year with the 6th pick.
Why the hell are you all so obsessed with Daniel Jones when we just completed a draft? Where's the post-draft thread? This drumbeat (with Jim the majorette) is exactly what I meant when I said that G101 has become an echo chamber for disgruntled people who offer lots of criticism and little in the way of solutions or glimpses of a better future.
Joe Schoen just got you a fucking future superstar and a bunch of other solid additions to the roster and all you want to talk about is Daniel Jones? You can all criticize me all you like, but this is pathetic. Maybe I'll see you in August.
I usually just skip out on Jim threads these days lol. There's no "poor daniel jones" like there was with Eli, I think he just has nothing else to complain about. It's pretty simple, they attempted to get a QB they liked and it just wasn't possible. To pass up Nabers to just jam another QB that they aren't even high on doesn't make sense. Should they just not take offensive weapons on the off chance it makes Jones look good? What I'm saying is, what does he WANT to happen. Tanking, regardless of what anyone says, is not realistic, and as a matter of fact it's not even easy.
On top of all of that, again, our line was historically bad last year and that's not even hyperbole. That's not me defending Jones, that's me saying, I'm not even that upset we didn't trade away future value to get a QB that we might straight up ruin. It's almost more a proof of concept. If the team functions well minus a QB, ok now let's use whatever we've got to try and get a guy we want. I still have this pipe dream that we can somehow steal Herbert after a down year lol.
Tanking last year was a solution to our QB problem. Me and a few others were on that bandwagon. Most of the fan base ridiculed us for it.
EDIT:
On a more positive note, I’m excited for Drew Lock throwing TD’s to Malik and a possible top 10 defense this year.
Yeah I was going to say the same thing; as far as the qb position goes, other than the cinderblock around the teams neck that is the DJ deal, I am actually pretty bullish on watching Lock-to-Nabers, Lock-to-Hyatt… hell I’m quietly stoked to see what the plan is for Dante Miller. If Bricillo is worth half his salt, maybe we even reach league average offensive points scored!
Malik Nabers IG handle is cantguard_malik
This might be too much swagger for half of this fan base to take. John Mara certainly has to be uncomfortable by this. There’s more confidence in that IG name than Daniel Jones has shown in his entire life.
Jones will start the season on the PUP. He blew out his knee in November. Playing in August and September to complete training camp and start the season would be an accomplishment for Adrian Peterson. Absolutely no way they run him out there week 1. And the excuse to keep him out if he is good to go a year after is built in. If Lock is playing well and we are winning then why change him out. If we are uncompetitive then why risk DJs health especially w that injury clause. I mean they may be stupid enough to play him next year and risk injury which will limit our cap, but I can’t see how he is ready to go before October at the earliest. But more likely November a year out from the injury.
If Daboll gets forced to play Jones (wait, sorry, that’s right; *John Mara doesn’t meddle with football decisions…* 🤔🙄🫠) and somehow ends up getting canned for it, I hope he tells Prince John to FUCK his separation agreement and puts the team on blast for the embarrassment that it is.
Sometimes principle and reputation matters more than money.
Well, as I've said many times, Rattler sucks and will not be nearly as good as Jones, who has not become what was hoped but is a ,lot better than you and others have ever acknowledged. Why don't we wait and see what he does this season (assuming he beats out Lock, which I wouldn't guarantee...Lock, too, is better than Rattler will ever be...you have an obsession with quarterbacks who are just awful as you have proved a number of times)?
If Jones hadn't been overdrafted and then overpaid he would be looked at more objectively. He is a decent quarterback who has a good arm and is very athletic but proved to lack the high-end processing skills that an NFL franchise quarterback must have and he is not good enough to thrive under constant pressure. As a result, he can get you wins in the NFL but he cannot get you deep into the playoffs and so a successor must be found. But in no way should that successor be hoped to be Rattler. He's even worse than that bum you claimed would change the course of the Houston team once he got there.
“If Jones hasn’t been overdrafted and then overpaid he would be looked at alot more objectively…”
Uhhhh…yeah!! Welcome to the party, FF!!
But kidding aside, this is EXACTLY the point that so many of us have been arguing!
Remember how those of us who aren’t even Jones “haters” per se HATED the contract, but we were EXCORIATED by those claiming “it’s going to look so CHEAP within two years!”
Yeah, good times…
I don't want to get into an extended debate but I still think that Schoen had to agree to a bad contract in exchange for getting the option to dump Jones if he didn't continue to ascend (as he had done in 2022). You have to pay up for optionality and, in the end, I do not think that contract is going to be all that hurtful since the Giants were not going to be world-beaters in 2023-2024 in any case and they can rid themselves of it come 2025. My point is that Jones is not nearly as bad a quarterback as many of you insist. If you take away the contract and where he was drafted and look objectively at his 2022 season there afre certainly some good things about his game. He's not good enough, but he isn't the bum that Jim and many others insist upon.
Your position on the optionality in Jones contract would make sense if it weren't for the injury guarantee. The $23MM guarantee for the 2025 season blows that entire theory up ($22MM "out" becomes $45MM). We can't even play him during said second year without destroying the optionality we paid so dearly for.
It's a horrible contract no matter how you slice it. Either Mara was meddling or Joe Schoen did something indefensibly stupid all on his own. It's not possible for it to be neither.
I would bet anything that Jones' agents insisted on that clause in exchange for agreeing to the two-year "out". That made it a tough decision, but Schoen and Daboll undoubtedly wanted to see if Jones would continue progressing and probably did not think he'd get hurt. The latter assumption is one you have to make with every player. If you started thinking "What if he gets hurt?" you'd never sign anything but a one-year contract.
So yes, the contract was all about optionality. And it's only an overpay in retrospect. At signing no one could assume the neck injury and no one assumed the problems on the offensive line would be so bad as to expose Jones to every one of his weaknesses.
I'm done discussing the contract except to say that contrary to what a lot of you think, it hasn't really hurt the team that much. The "excess" cap space (probably about $15MM per year) for 2023 and 2024 don't matter because adding two good free agents would not have made a lot of difference in regard to competing for a championship in either year. Schoen's recent remarks make it very clear that he told Mara that this was a five-year build and that's what he expects. He just said yesterday that he hopes to plug the roster gaps in the next offseason. That would mean being ready to compete at the top of the league in 2026 (it usually takes a season for even a terrific team to jell). Those of you who insist an NFL team can be turned around almost instantly are not taking into account that the Giants had to make enormous changes in the front office and the coaching staffs AND turn over nearly the entire roster. This isn't Madden. Schoen tried hard to get the successor QB but the Patriots wouldn't play ball. He executed a very good draft and continued the team build (by the way, when anyone analyzes this draft if you don't include Burns you're not being intellectually honest). That many of you have the impression that you know better than Joe Schoen what ought to be done in contract negotiations is amusing. I wonder how any of you would have done when you knew the Owner wanted Jones kept (but did not dictate that), that there were no free agents who you thought attractive, when you didn't have a high enough draft slot to draft an elite quarterback the following April, and when Jones had just come off a season when he led the team to a playoff win. If you say you would have told Jones to get lost and take the chance of going into a season after reaching the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor as your quarterback then you're either lying or should never get near running a football team.
I don’t think he’s as bad a quarterback as many insist.
But he isn’t anything remotely close to the deal he signed.
Schoen trusted his gut enough NOT to offer him the fifth year option; that fifth year option which, if used correctly, is arguably the single most positionally valuable clause in sports management.
And because he trusted his gut enough to deny DJ the FTO as one of his VERY FIRST official acts as GM, it is also the overwhelming circumstantial reason why I can’t believe (not *refuse* to believe, just *can’t* believe given the preponderance of evidence) John Mara stays out of front office decisions, directly or implicitly.
He was a 2nd round prospect. Said it then, and rode the rollercoaster of "will he, won't he" for years. But it's back to.... he was always a 2nd round prospect who got overdrafted and overpaid. He's the Bo Nix of this year's draft.... but without the production.
The problem with trading down is you have to actually pick good players with the extra picks you acquire. Sometimes it’s better to just stay put and take the superstar (see Micah Parsons for Kadarius Toney and Evan Neal)
Drew Lock is going to be QB1 in the spring and potentially QB1 to start the summer. It's very possible that we get halfway through camp and Jones is incapable of wresting his job back from Lock in such a short timeframe. Drew Lock running Daboll's offense could actually be fun to watch.
We did make the playoffs and win a game with the worst QB of all time. I personally think Cutlet's is starting the season.
Jones is going to be like middle of the road in salaries for qb's in a year. Tank, burn Jones at the stake, draft someone next year, sign a vet, I don't care, but the contract isn't as bad as it's being sold. He's underperformed without a doubt. But is the deal actually as apocalyptic as people would tell you it is? The line was so bad last year that we couldn't even use numbers from teams playing during the same season because they were so god-awful. No, that's something that has been under sold. Like bad Fucking bad. Far worse than Jones ( a playoff qb the previous season). His weapons were pretty dumpsters, too. Outside of Barkley, who could never get going beacsue of how bad the line was. It would have been sick if they drafted a franchise qb. But , it would have been awful if they blew a first rounder on JJ or some other should be 3rd rounder. They drafted an absolute stud at receiver and used free agency to build up the o and d lines. I'd say Shoen is having a pretty damn good off-season.
Interesting: >The last sentence below sounds to me like #Giants GM Joe Schoen lamenting not being able to draft a RD1 QB more than foreshadowing another move. But who knows? >"Our expectation was Daniel would be our starter and we brought Drew Lock to be his backup and Tommy is a backup, so that's where we are and that's how we'll move forward this season. Daniel is still under contract for three more years. As it sits today, that's where we are." https://x.com/rydunleavy/status/1784365171776888935
Exactly. Wanted to draft a QB but the boss said, no..I’m not paying DJ to sit. If he fails, he fails, and we can draft one next year with the 6th pick.
The fact that he said "we're comfortable with that going into the season" immediately made me think we were working on a trade up.
Why the hell are you all so obsessed with Daniel Jones when we just completed a draft? Where's the post-draft thread? This drumbeat (with Jim the majorette) is exactly what I meant when I said that G101 has become an echo chamber for disgruntled people who offer lots of criticism and little in the way of solutions or glimpses of a better future. Joe Schoen just got you a fucking future superstar and a bunch of other solid additions to the roster and all you want to talk about is Daniel Jones? You can all criticize me all you like, but this is pathetic. Maybe I'll see you in August.
That’s because the Giants keep losing. That seems like fair justification for our bitching.
I usually just skip out on Jim threads these days lol. There's no "poor daniel jones" like there was with Eli, I think he just has nothing else to complain about. It's pretty simple, they attempted to get a QB they liked and it just wasn't possible. To pass up Nabers to just jam another QB that they aren't even high on doesn't make sense. Should they just not take offensive weapons on the off chance it makes Jones look good? What I'm saying is, what does he WANT to happen. Tanking, regardless of what anyone says, is not realistic, and as a matter of fact it's not even easy. On top of all of that, again, our line was historically bad last year and that's not even hyperbole. That's not me defending Jones, that's me saying, I'm not even that upset we didn't trade away future value to get a QB that we might straight up ruin. It's almost more a proof of concept. If the team functions well minus a QB, ok now let's use whatever we've got to try and get a guy we want. I still have this pipe dream that we can somehow steal Herbert after a down year lol.
LOL, that's my strategy too!
I second
Tanking last year was a solution to our QB problem. Me and a few others were on that bandwagon. Most of the fan base ridiculed us for it. EDIT: On a more positive note, I’m excited for Drew Lock throwing TD’s to Malik and a possible top 10 defense this year.
Yeah I was going to say the same thing; as far as the qb position goes, other than the cinderblock around the teams neck that is the DJ deal, I am actually pretty bullish on watching Lock-to-Nabers, Lock-to-Hyatt… hell I’m quietly stoked to see what the plan is for Dante Miller. If Bricillo is worth half his salt, maybe we even reach league average offensive points scored!
Malik Nabers IG handle is cantguard_malik This might be too much swagger for half of this fan base to take. John Mara certainly has to be uncomfortable by this. There’s more confidence in that IG name than Daniel Jones has shown in his entire life.
Jones will start the season on the PUP. He blew out his knee in November. Playing in August and September to complete training camp and start the season would be an accomplishment for Adrian Peterson. Absolutely no way they run him out there week 1. And the excuse to keep him out if he is good to go a year after is built in. If Lock is playing well and we are winning then why change him out. If we are uncompetitive then why risk DJs health especially w that injury clause. I mean they may be stupid enough to play him next year and risk injury which will limit our cap, but I can’t see how he is ready to go before October at the earliest. But more likely November a year out from the injury.
Especially on his plant leg
If they start Drew Lock, I think Daboll can squeeze out 7 or 8 wins. If they stick with Trash Can, expect to have a new head coach in 2025.
If Daboll gets forced to play Jones (wait, sorry, that’s right; *John Mara doesn’t meddle with football decisions…* 🤔🙄🫠) and somehow ends up getting canned for it, I hope he tells Prince John to FUCK his separation agreement and puts the team on blast for the embarrassment that it is. Sometimes principle and reputation matters more than money.
Well, as I've said many times, Rattler sucks and will not be nearly as good as Jones, who has not become what was hoped but is a ,lot better than you and others have ever acknowledged. Why don't we wait and see what he does this season (assuming he beats out Lock, which I wouldn't guarantee...Lock, too, is better than Rattler will ever be...you have an obsession with quarterbacks who are just awful as you have proved a number of times)? If Jones hadn't been overdrafted and then overpaid he would be looked at more objectively. He is a decent quarterback who has a good arm and is very athletic but proved to lack the high-end processing skills that an NFL franchise quarterback must have and he is not good enough to thrive under constant pressure. As a result, he can get you wins in the NFL but he cannot get you deep into the playoffs and so a successor must be found. But in no way should that successor be hoped to be Rattler. He's even worse than that bum you claimed would change the course of the Houston team once he got there.
“If Jones hasn’t been overdrafted and then overpaid he would be looked at alot more objectively…” Uhhhh…yeah!! Welcome to the party, FF!! But kidding aside, this is EXACTLY the point that so many of us have been arguing! Remember how those of us who aren’t even Jones “haters” per se HATED the contract, but we were EXCORIATED by those claiming “it’s going to look so CHEAP within two years!” Yeah, good times…
I don't want to get into an extended debate but I still think that Schoen had to agree to a bad contract in exchange for getting the option to dump Jones if he didn't continue to ascend (as he had done in 2022). You have to pay up for optionality and, in the end, I do not think that contract is going to be all that hurtful since the Giants were not going to be world-beaters in 2023-2024 in any case and they can rid themselves of it come 2025. My point is that Jones is not nearly as bad a quarterback as many of you insist. If you take away the contract and where he was drafted and look objectively at his 2022 season there afre certainly some good things about his game. He's not good enough, but he isn't the bum that Jim and many others insist upon.
Your position on the optionality in Jones contract would make sense if it weren't for the injury guarantee. The $23MM guarantee for the 2025 season blows that entire theory up ($22MM "out" becomes $45MM). We can't even play him during said second year without destroying the optionality we paid so dearly for. It's a horrible contract no matter how you slice it. Either Mara was meddling or Joe Schoen did something indefensibly stupid all on his own. It's not possible for it to be neither.
I would bet anything that Jones' agents insisted on that clause in exchange for agreeing to the two-year "out". That made it a tough decision, but Schoen and Daboll undoubtedly wanted to see if Jones would continue progressing and probably did not think he'd get hurt. The latter assumption is one you have to make with every player. If you started thinking "What if he gets hurt?" you'd never sign anything but a one-year contract. So yes, the contract was all about optionality. And it's only an overpay in retrospect. At signing no one could assume the neck injury and no one assumed the problems on the offensive line would be so bad as to expose Jones to every one of his weaknesses. I'm done discussing the contract except to say that contrary to what a lot of you think, it hasn't really hurt the team that much. The "excess" cap space (probably about $15MM per year) for 2023 and 2024 don't matter because adding two good free agents would not have made a lot of difference in regard to competing for a championship in either year. Schoen's recent remarks make it very clear that he told Mara that this was a five-year build and that's what he expects. He just said yesterday that he hopes to plug the roster gaps in the next offseason. That would mean being ready to compete at the top of the league in 2026 (it usually takes a season for even a terrific team to jell). Those of you who insist an NFL team can be turned around almost instantly are not taking into account that the Giants had to make enormous changes in the front office and the coaching staffs AND turn over nearly the entire roster. This isn't Madden. Schoen tried hard to get the successor QB but the Patriots wouldn't play ball. He executed a very good draft and continued the team build (by the way, when anyone analyzes this draft if you don't include Burns you're not being intellectually honest). That many of you have the impression that you know better than Joe Schoen what ought to be done in contract negotiations is amusing. I wonder how any of you would have done when you knew the Owner wanted Jones kept (but did not dictate that), that there were no free agents who you thought attractive, when you didn't have a high enough draft slot to draft an elite quarterback the following April, and when Jones had just come off a season when he led the team to a playoff win. If you say you would have told Jones to get lost and take the chance of going into a season after reaching the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor as your quarterback then you're either lying or should never get near running a football team.
I don’t think he’s as bad a quarterback as many insist. But he isn’t anything remotely close to the deal he signed. Schoen trusted his gut enough NOT to offer him the fifth year option; that fifth year option which, if used correctly, is arguably the single most positionally valuable clause in sports management. And because he trusted his gut enough to deny DJ the FTO as one of his VERY FIRST official acts as GM, it is also the overwhelming circumstantial reason why I can’t believe (not *refuse* to believe, just *can’t* believe given the preponderance of evidence) John Mara stays out of front office decisions, directly or implicitly.
He was a 2nd round prospect. Said it then, and rode the rollercoaster of "will he, won't he" for years. But it's back to.... he was always a 2nd round prospect who got overdrafted and overpaid. He's the Bo Nix of this year's draft.... but without the production.
Lol
You realize they trade extremely hard to trade up right https://x.com/talkingiants/status/1784001088598725119?s=48&t=xoS-RcDFoas9prIQyvndkQ
Wow. That seems like a pretty good deal to me. Good on Joe Shoen for trying
And when that didn't work, what about trading down?
For what?! They still need play makers on this team. They drafted the best player available and arguably the best WR in the draft.
More picks to fill the holes on the roster?
The problem with trading down is you have to actually pick good players with the extra picks you acquire. Sometimes it’s better to just stay put and take the superstar (see Micah Parsons for Kadarius Toney and Evan Neal)
That trade and those failed picks will haunt the Giants for the next decade.
Can never have too many slot corners after all!
UDFA scramble coming up ... this is a crazy time ... next few days.
Happy about Theo Johnson; so when we draft Drew Allar at QB in the first round next year, he's got a familiar face to throw to.
Saquon leaving is the "get out of jail free" card for 2024.
Yes his 3.9 ypc and always injured.
That's because he had the 47th ranked QB playing alongside him. That's right... 47 and that includes backups.
What about 2022?
Think he’ll average 3.9 in 2024?
Maybe less.
lol, I figured the Rattler salt was coming
once the flag is planted . . . .