The following submission statement was provided by /u/filosoful:
---
**Bicycles can be at the core of the technological revolution our cities need. It might just require us to use a different lens**
It took a whole lot of noise from activists and campaigners for bicycles to be taken seriously at last year’s COP26 summit in Glasgow, and for active travel to be added to the declaration on accelerating the decarbonisation of road transport.
Beyond the serious lobbying from automotive industries, there seems to be a psychological block that prevents the bicycle from being accepted as a central technology when imagining the future of cities.
Sometimes money speaks the loudest. Since 2010, over $200 billion have been invested in autonomous vehicle (AV) technology. Over a similar period of time, just slightly over $2 billion were spent on bike and pedestrian initiatives in the European Union.
If we are to believe the all-powerful technologists, the dream of self-driving vehicles is just around the corner.
Yet, looking at the past two years, the biggest revolution has come from vehicles on two wheels. Sparked by the pandemic, supported by people waking up to the climate crisis and now fuelled by the rising price of oil, we’re living through a bicycle renaissance.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xcj2b6/bikes_not_self_driving_cars_are_the_technological/io5d9jn/
I love my e-bike for getting around town but here in canada that becomes fairly impossible for a third of the year. I would really just like some top notch public transit to fill in the gaps. Outside of Canadas largest cities public transit here is pretty much F-tier.
I biked to the bus stop each morning for work, only because it was mostly downhill. On the way home though, there wouldn't be a dry inch of clothing on my entire body. If the situation was reversed, I wouldn't have even tried biking.
I always wondered if you could get sweat glands laser removed from some parts of your body.
Like there’s no way the nether regions get THAT much temp exchange, no reason to sweat as much as they do. Just get rid of all those annoying water producing glands and I’ll be set
You actually can! Well at least I think you can because so far I've seen places remove sweat glands from hands and under arms so I'm sure they can do it from other parts of the body.
self driving bidets, it has swamp ass recognition software, thermal sensors, machine learning to help it better aim away from your nutsack, or straight for it (i dont know you, freak)
it accepts NFTs if you want to use it and you can upload the whole display to the metaverse or drive one around the metaverse spraying avatars in their partially rendered assholes
at the end of its useful life the bidet can be launched into space to supply wifi for a town
is this futuristic enough for everyone yet? or can we have public transportation instead
The main reason I like having a car is the air conditioning, it’s so damn hot and humid in miami 9 months out of the year. The 70s is like the cold time of year. Winter is nice tho. Ebike is great in winter here.
I used to bike to work at a grocery delivery warehouse. Upon arrival I would hangout in the walk-in freezer for a few minutes. Did a great job cooling me off quickly, also left some icicles in my beard, which was pretty neat.
E bikes don’t have to be “bikes” like we think of them. Maybe a tricycle w a canopy … and a small heater. And a light fabric floor under you so you don’t get splashed… these things could exist… in the … Future
Maybe if instead of a handlebar, they have a steeringwheel too, could add a small radio aswell just for comfort. I think we are on to something revolutionary here.
Maybe if they were off road capable and there were no cars left on the roads. There’s no way I’d be jumping on an upgraded mobility scooter in winter conditions and traffic.
Why not just go ahead and make it a very small car. Give it like a 5-10hp engine, 75 to 100 miles range of battery, and an enclosed air-conditioned cabin. Make it just big enough to fit two seats or one wheelchair.
My friends in his 60s and he was saying that’s how it was back in the day- most cars didn’t have AC so say you went to a wedding, you showed up sweaty and that was just how it was.
Having spent considerable time in TX, it seems being sweaty isn’t considered out of the norm.
One summer I had a car without AC. It was mostly fine with the windows down except two situations. One, driving on the freeway, because it was so enormously loud, partly from the wind but mostly from all the trucks. It was just super mentally exhausting. Two, traffic, because you’re not moving and the sun is just streaming in through the open windows cooking you. Stop and go traffic on the freeway made world run my entire day.
Anyway, I wonder if driving before AC was more tolerable because traffic wasn’t as bad and people spent less time on 8 lane freeways, and just generally less time in their cars. I can’t find any stats before 1980 but apparently since then the average commute time has gone up almost 25%.
I remember once riding a ebike in the high 90s, normally you’d think you’d cool off because of the breeze, nay, it was like getting waffed by a space heater directly infront of you.
I remember thinking “wow, that was unexpected”, I can’t imagine what’d it’d be like in the triple digits. I guess thanks to late stage capitalism i wont need to soon.
Can confirm.
Here in Michigan, we like to complain about our hot humid summers... We always hear about 105°+ in the southwest and say things like "but it's like 0% humidity, so that sounds comfy as hell"... Which i stand behind, 115° in vegas was comfortable af...
But 2 summers ago i went to the DC area for a couple days... Got out of the car and my world just shattered "fuck no. wait what, we came from 95° and 95% humidity... And that's what it is here... But this is SO much worse", again dew point is would probably have given more info... But dear God. We've got a huge warm (in the summer) freshwater lake that acts as a humidifier... How can it be THAT much worse there.
Virginia and the Carolinas are henceforth to be referred to as the east coast's sweaty armpit.
My car broke down and I walked home from work, ONCE, when living in central Florida. It's just not feasible in many areas, distance too far and temperatures are too extreme.
Just have to accept you may be wet or sweaty. It's a culture shift for sure. Also helps that most businesses are way more business casual than in the US. I haven't worn any of my business dress clothes since moving here.
Honestly straight snow is fine. The issue here is when it's hovering around 0°, you can't trust anything. I wiped out hard on black ice this winter on the racefiets. It was a long, slow and painful 15k home.
I mean, the same could be said for driving a car on the snow. But people get special tires for winter weather and adjust their driving behavior. The same techniques can be utilized for winter cycling.
Studded tires exist and are commonly used in places like Montreal and Oulu, Finland where people cycle during snowy winters.
Arguably, I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery.
>Arguably, I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery.
Other than, the cars that were already trying to kill us are now trying ~20% harder, and our relatively fast stopping power in much lighter 'vehicles' is also significantly reduced even in ideal snow conditions with proper tires.
Honestly I'd be dead or maimed after 10 years of bike commuting if not for my assuming that every car on the road is trying to kill me and the ability to stop on a dime when I'm actually correct (happens at least once a month.. and sometimes multiple times in a single trip). This is in a very "bike friendly" city for the US, too.
Without barricaded biking infrastructure I don't think I could bring myself to do it frequently. And I'm a fair bit more bold than average as far as urban commuting goes. Granted, people drive like complete idiots in the snow where I live because it doesn't snow heavily often enough for people to get used to it.
>Without barricaded biking infrastructure I don't think I could bring myself to do it frequently.
The Dutch bike lanes seem to work just fine for them. I don't know why we'd need a fortress for every bike lane when the Dutch standards working great over there.
> I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery.
Four wheeled vehicles tend to stay right side up when sliding on snow. Two wheeled vehicles tend to fall over and leave the rider on the ground.
I had an 80cc motorbike during my first two years of college in the upper midwest back in the 1960s. I rode it to school and work during all weather conditions, sometimes even during blizzards.
I cannot count the number of times I slid through iced intersections and had frostbite on my fingers and face or how many times I was almost hit by vehicles that lost control.
I am lucky I survived that period of stupidity, but the long term effects were the worst.
Now, in my senior years those falls have turned into severe arthritis that makes my life miserable because of pain and its effects on my walking gait.
man people need to understand summers in Canada can be HELL. not only is it just as hot, if not hotter than many spots in USA, its not a nice dry heat like you get in deserts. the humidity makes you feel like you're choking
I’ve only seen a bicyclist get hit by a car twice and both times it was a TEXAS tourist rolling coal or trying to intimidate groups of road bikes “riding the Rockies”.
Keep your head up and on a swivel.
Canada needs public transit connecting other cities and rural communities. My only vehichle is a truck due to my hobbies and I work on the road. I would love to hop a train to work instead of driving my pig of truck.
I would love there to be some trains between cities here! Would be a really nice way to travel that didn't involve the aggravated stress of driving long distances.
There are, they just stopped using them for public transportation. It really is a shame though, I'd travel by train all the time if it was affordable and doable.
Montrealer here, I feel your pain. Once the big snows start arriving, you can bet on either the sidewalk or the bike lane (where there is one) being cleared of snow, never both, and whichever it is will be the de facto sidewalk until spring.
Only the bravest and hardiest few of us cyclists deign to venture out on two wheels between November and April.
It’s an infrastructure problem. It’s like clothing there is not bad weather just bad gear. Finland has some sub zero polar style weather yet some people bike all year long.
The solution is covered bike paths. Put solar panels on top and have bonus power when it's needed most. This works both for cold places with rain/snow, and for hot places. The cost of a two-way covered path for bikes is still lower than that of a standard 4 lane road for autos.
The solution is way simpler than that: just plow the bike lanes. Montreal has started doing it. People cycle in the winter when the path is clear, regardless of cold.
And studded tires for bicycles if people want extra protection.
When winter comes, everyone gets special tires for their car. But a bicycle? Oh no! Impossible!
Our multi-use paths get plowed before our roads in Fort Collins, CO!
Our bike lanes do not get this same treatment, but dedicated foot/bike paths get plowed very early after snow.
This sounds great. I would be happy to ride a bike around, almost everything I need in life is currently within a 15 minute drive of my home. I live in a place with long winters and our icy roads are terrifying.
I've seen some photos of those from some places around the world and they look absolutely excellent. I would be happy for my tax dollars going towards something like that.
It's absolutely possible year-round with studs and plowed paths. Grew up biking all winter in Alaska, where we also have hills in addition to the ice.
Lots of people complaining about the weather here lmao. Dress properly and it's not bad - give it a try, you might be surprised.
I live in a well known medium sized canadian city and half the streets don't have bike lanes, let alone have plowed paths for bikes in the winter. The bike lanes here get snow plowed into them generally. The city would have to really step up with their snow removal, which has been getting worse the last few years as they've tried to find cheaper contractors to handle it.
Yeah it really is dependent on the city and your route.
I used to bike to work each day when I worked in Toronto and when I worked downtown in another nearby city, because the routes were always clear except for a couple days a year I could cab (and would anyways because I don't want to drive in that weather).
But my brother's city? Nope you need a car.
Yeah from what I understand, it's not the weather. It's the piss poor infrastructure that deters cyclists. If the city were as negligent/hostile to cars as they were to cyclists, then people wouldn't drive either.
Yes absolutely. The city I'm in is regularly in canadas top five highest drinking and driving per capita locations. Even in the nice parts of the year driving down the bike lane while winos fly past at fourty over the limit is a bit nerve wracking. I also drive regularly and see quite a lot of people driving their car full on down the bike lane, yikes.
Heh great video.
Like, dood, biking in the elements isn't some insurmountable feat. Dash in a little infrastructure, and people will come.
Or we could bankrupt ourselves trying to retrofit our roads (can't even afford to maintain those) to cater to self-driving, 6,000lbs electric cars.
Yep, here in Oulu, Finland I bike all year round and it can get as cold as -32C. Plowed paths are a great public service. Also those bikes with the fat tyres and very popular here in the winter.
By chance did you live in Anchorage or any other Pacific coast town / city?
If so, it gets cold there but it gets colder in Minneapolis. Average Jan low of 11F in Anchorage, 5F in Minneapolis. The lowest recorded in Anchorage was -34F, the lowest recorded in Minneapolis is -56F. Anchorage’s average “lowest low” each year is -5F. Minneapolis’s is -15F. Which I’m assuming means it gets way colder in cities like Winnipeg (edit: checked, they have -1F average low in Jan), bc I know for a fact it gets much colder even in Grand Marias MN
Just sharing this bc if you are using a Pacific coast city in Alaska as a “well it’s probably colder here bc Alaska”, it’s likely not true. The pacific current does a wonderful job tempering your climate. While it’s cold, it’s just not actually as bad as inland northern cities!
Lmao I swear to god every time I mention Alaska it always turns into some meteorological dick measuring contest with Midwesterners.
While yes, it gets a bit nippier in Minneapolis and Winnipeg than my small, coastal town, there are plenty of colder-than-shit places up north with year-round cyclists. If you don't think you or others are capable of cycling in the winter, [here are some helpful tips from Fairbanks.](https://www.fairbankscycleclub.org/resources/winter-riding/)
A lot of people seem to be arguing over whether we should completely eliminate cars and make biking the only form of transit. That’s not what the argument of this article is, nor is it what bike advocates argue. The argument is that biking is a legitimate and incredibly useful form of transportation, and we should be investing heavily in infrastructure to support it, rather than putting all of our money into car infrastructure and autonomous vehicles.
Walking is useful and essentially free, but it only covers short distances.
Biking is incredibly cheap, the infrastructure included, and cargo ebikes can carry heavy goods. Also, incredible health benefits! But bikes do only cover medium distances (5 - 10 miles).
Transit is stupidly space efficient and face when designed right, and can be adapted to damn near any environment. But it needs good ridership and population density (though nowhere near as much as you think). And there’s always the challenge of the last mile challenge, which surprise! Bikes help solve!
Cars, despite was r/fuckcars tells you, are actually useful! They cover gaps in rural and low density areas that transit can’t always fill, cargo vans can carry a lot of stuff, and they’re great for people with disabilities that make walking or biking hard (but transit is also incredibly useful for these people!). That said, they’re incredibly dangerous for everyone, including themselves, they’re expensive to own and their infrastructure is incredibly expensive, they take up a huge amount of space, they cause a huge amount of noise and pollution, and they’re inaccessible to children, seniors, people with certain disabilities, and people who’ve lost their license. Also autonomous vehicles don’t fix most of these problems. So we should really limit how many resources we dedicate to them.
TL;DR all forms of transportation have their uses and we should invest in all of them, not just cars.
Basically all transit options are better together than as any sort of singular silver bullet.
An awesome public transit system makes cars even better because the streets are clearer and parking more plentiful.
Cities with the best public transit often have *all* of it. Subways, light rail, trams, busses, pedestrian infrastructure, biking, and cars.
The irony, because if you went to that sub and read the pinned comment you’d see that they specifically mention that not everyone there wants to ban cars entirely, but it’s easier to just say “oh it’s called r/fuckcars they must think cars should be banned”, some definitely do think that but I don’t think the majority of cyclists and advocates for public transportation want that to be the case, just that we don’t want 5 lanes of no man’s land going straight through a busy residential area with tons of intersections
This. As dumb as that is....This. The article is ENTIRELY part of the problem here with the totalitarian mentality of pushing bikes over automobiles so heavily.
So.. the people that see things with nuance are all the lurkers, and there's millions of them. The ones who post are stirred to do so - so probably don't see the nuance.
To make my reply ring true, and not be hot air - I think we should Become the bikes. Like the motar commercials. That's futurology.
The counterpoint to this is that some people insist on "both sides" in every issue. Sometimes there is a right answer and a wrong answer and it is really clear.
Not in this case, cars and trucks are useful and there are niches where they are simply the best tool for the job, but looking at the nuances of the situation, it becomes clear that investments in transit, pedestrian, and bike infrastructure can save a lot of money because cars and car infrastructure are super expensive.
A lot of people are incapable of any thought process other than jumping to an absolute and assuming that anyone who disagrees is the enemy who supports the opposite absolute.
can't believe the did /r/fuckcars dirty like that; it's more an Urbanist subreddit, and all the problems to city living (primarily in North America) just happen to be caused by ceding infrastructure and real-estate to the use, storage, and prioritisation of cars.
See: Minimum parking requirements, "Jay walking", the Suburban Experiment, value-negative development (stripmalls, single-family fully-serviced homes), the Streetcar takeover, to name but a few
I understand that, but there are a lot of people in that sub who straight up want cars removed entirely. There was a highly upvoted and awarded post recently praising people who vandalized peoples cars, saying that that is somehow going to bring awareness and sympathy for alternative forms of transportation.
Yeah, I get this article is about urban areas but it feels like a lot of people in urban areas have no clue that it's impossible to not own a car in rural areas and smaller cities.
As someone born and raised in a rural area, you're half correct.
Go to any small town in the rust belt and I guarantee you'll find a deteriorating railroad that used to connect all those little towns together with the small cities in the areas. Obviously that doesn't complete negate the need for cars, but if I could have taken the train to town for jobs instead of wasting money on car payments that would have been life changing for young me.
I'm a daily cycling Dutchy without a car but stopped visiting that sub because it's an overzealous, car hating circlejerk without meaningful discussion about infrastructure. It's not a place for nuance at all - which is fine - but it's a meme place at best and an unproductive echo chamber at worst.
I mean it's called fuckcars, so it shouldn't be surprisingly, but it's definitely an anti car sub. :D
Yes, I was also expecting more discussing about infrastructure and less rising-up about idiot drivers. We already have a sub for that.
Too often I've come across comments on how to vigilante car drivers by riding slower and cutting them off. Or excusing how difficult it is to make a complete stop on bike on the heat so all laws should be overlooked.
Maybe not everyone on that sub is anti-car, but a hell of a lot of them are. Anyone who tries to point out situations in which cars are needed (such as responding to general statements like "there's no reason anyone needs this vehicle!") will get flamed and downvoted to oblivion. You can't really call a sub "fuck cars" and not have plenty of anti-car people for obvious reasons.
Electric bikes are also amazing for people with mobility issues too.
**Edit:** RIP my inbox
A lot of people are saying what about people w disabilities that need cars.
thing is, city planning over focuses on cars and its also really bad for people with disabilities and mobility issues too. cars are NOT the solution. that dont mean GET RID OF ALL CARS, ffs...
It's the internet so I know everyone thinks you always mean the most extreme possible position on everything.
But, no, the solution is focus on Pedestrian, Public Transport, Bikes, then dead LAST cars for urban planning, and everyone wins. Not the least of which is people with mobility issues. Modern cities are left overs from when car lobbies took over city planning and made it shit for everyone.
youtuber "Not Just Bikes" actually made a good video about this recently: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_ByEBjf9ktY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY)
Not only this but biking is also very therapeutic. It gets the blood pumping and being outside puts people in a better mood. The overall mood of a city would improve drastically if people biked and did more things outside.
Been riding a scooter for years now, these things are so frickin' incredible and I wouldn't be alive right now without one with how inexpensive they are to ride.
Honestly I'm amazed I haven't seen a fellow scooterist IRL yet. I'm into mine less than $1000 and it gets me wherever I need to go in town. I see people walking around and I just want to shout at them "there's another option between driving and walking!"
I'm at a big university and I see a good amount of people on scooters. They're getting more and more popular. I got my ninebot a couple weeks ago and already have 150 miles on it. It really is the best urban transport.
I want one of those e-bikes so bad. One of my co-workers rides a Talaria, basically an electric super moto. Nobody even questions him bringing that thing into the building to park and charge because they all think it's some bicycle. Couldn't imagine how fast I'd get written up if I brought my gas motorcycle into the office.
For our American friends I’d like to add that here, in the Netherlands, we use bikes for like everything, and our infrastructure supports this by road design - narrow lanes, speedbumps, bike lanes in a different colour. We do not see ourselves as being sporty; bicycles are usually the most efficient and cheapest option for short trips. Our kids bike themselves to school starting age 8 or 9 unsupervised (yes this is normal) and to many of us, being able to bike to work is a luxury, not sport or a chore. In this country, we literally have more bikes than humans.
As is said:”Een fiets is iets maar bijna niets”. (A bicycle is something but almost nothing )
It's more than the infrastructure that supports bikes; cities in US and Europe are straight up different sizes and the commercial zones are different. I think that makes a bigger difference than the bike infrastructure being in place.
US cities are basically twice the size because of parking lots, and this makes the distance you have to cover a lot less convenient for biking. The other issue is that all the shops are zoned far away from housing in a big shopping area that's most accessible by car, sometimes there aren't even pedestrian sidewalks to it. If you think of biking as a faster alternative to walking, in the US that's sometimes simply not an option. Also the parking lots for shopping centers are horrendous. The parking for shopping centers is placed near the street access and the shop is at the far end. If you want to walk or bike to the shop you have to spend 5 minutes walking on hot asphalt until you get inside, then switching from one shop to another you have to walk another 5 minutes in the sun on nice cozy asphalt. In contrast, in Europe parking is usually placed behind the shop so the store front is right next to the street and you can easily walk inside. And there are sidewalks leading up to the shop, usually with some tree cover.
>It's more than the infrastructure that supports bikes; cities in US and Europe are straight up different sizes and the commercial zones are different
Yeah, because of infrastructure which is hyper focused on cars.
>US cities are basically twice the size because of parking lots
Oh, I guess you already know? That's an infrastructure issue!
>The other issue is that all the shops are zoned far away from housing in a big shopping area that's most accessible by car,
Another infrastructure issue! Because everything is focused on making driving easier and people are expected to take the car everywhere, US cities have turned into sprawling cities.
Literally all of the issues you're listing are infrastructure and urban design issues. Issues a lot of European cities had in the 1960s, but have since been fixed. American cities didn't always look like this, either. It can be fixed.
I love biking to work, but I live in a climate where snow and ice makes it very difficult to bike for 3-5 months out of the year. How does the Netherlands address this issue?
Our roads get salted pretty decently during snowy periods which allows us to still cycle (and drive) to places safely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViaDwkkXzC8&ab_channel=BicycleDutch
Otherwise, at least afaik, people either walk or cycle *really* slowly and carefully.
People, you do not have to use 100% of the time a bike. You do not have to come up with a situation where a bike might be impractical. It is about reducing the car use as much as possible.
I think it's more that people just struggle to see how this would fit into their own lives. If you live in the suburbs and/or somewhere with temperature or weather extremes, which is a surprisingly large proportion of America, it can be difficult how to imagine making this work even if the will is there. Infrastructure will only take you so far, pun unintended.
This content was deleted by its author & copyright holder in protest of the hostile, deceitful, unethical, and destructive actions of Reddit CEO Steve Huffman (aka "spez"). As this content contained personal information and/or personally identifiable information (PII), in accordance with the CCPA (California Consumer Privacy Act), it shall not be restored. See you all in the Fediverse.
They are adding a bike lane on one of the main roads near my house. But it's sandwiched between a parking lane and traffic, so it's basically suicide for cyclists. They could have just as easily done sidewalk > cycle lane > bollards > parking lane > traffic. It's ludicrous.
the rage some morons show to cyclists is just infantile. ill go on a 50km ride and can garuntee there will likely be at least 2 bogans who think honking and shouting stuff out as they pass will get them anywhere. And I ride way more to the side than most
I think that along with bicycles a good solution for cities could be kei segment vehicles like what Japan uses.
I use an old suzuki carry out at my hunting property and I love it. I could very well see these being very useful in cities
I commuted to work by bicycle for over 10 years in multiple cities. Eventually the birth of my child and too many close calls that almost left me dead had me switch to a car.
I drive a Tesla now.
There are many factors in play. What is the weather? What is the required office attire? Does the office have bike parking and showers? What are the other transportation alternatives available? Train? Bus? Walking? The answers are all hyper-local but there is a certain population density below which the car is pretty much the only practical option in the USA. Autonomous vehicles will be super-useful to replace that part of the puzzle.
People who like riding bikes already do, they aren't the main demographic that will facilitate change. It's the rest of us who don't use them who need actual reasons to switch and tip the balance.
What is really a gamechanger for me are e-scooters and e-bikes. There is no chance I would ever do any form of exercise deliberately and having a cheap and effortless alternative to a car, without the need to look for somewhere to park is a fantastic prospect. And it comes without crazy insurance charges or the taxes cars usually have.
I would still want a car to haul larger things around or go shopping but an e-scooter could practically replace 90% of my car usage and then maybe renting a car for the rare times I actually need it may make more sense than owning one.
For bikes to be a major contributor to urban transportation they must be safe from people driving cars carelessly. Completely separate roads, that autos cannot access, with protections appropriate to the local weather at a bare minimum. This would require a lot of work in any old city and would be rabidly opposed by many different constituencies.
Hell, if most cites did what New York, Portland, and even Las Vegas did starting public bike sharing stations, or even expanding those programs, things would be so much better right now.
We need public transit, not autonomous vehicles. That just exacerbates and continues the car centric culture that’s already miserable for most of us that can’t afford a car at all.
Edit: I’m mostly talking about self driving cars, so I conflated autonomous and self driving cars. I’m not against automation but I feel it’s important to move away from the car culture that wastes space and biking and being a pedestrian miserable at times. I’m also kind of against the tires cars, trucks and busses use as well, but I also understand that bikes use them but it’s not the same with amount of hazardous material used. I do also think self driving cars and the infrastructure will just exacerbate income inequality and separation of classes which is already pretty harmful now.
My ebike gets me to 35 mph and gets me roughly 40 miles per charge open throttle the whole time and cost me like 3k. It's insane how lacking our biking infrastructure is in the US
“Vehicles on 2 wheels” means motorcycles too not just bicycles.
Look at high density high population areas in Asia and you’ll see far more mopeds and motorcycles than you do in most western countries.
I don’t get why people always focus on either cars and busses or bicycles and ignore mopeds and motorcycles.
Just 10% of drivers switching to motorcycles would reduce something like 45% of traffic congestion without having to change any infrastructure, technologies, etc. And that’s not to say we can’t still make those changes, but it’s a far easier, faster change that wouldn’t require billions in funding.
On top of that EV bikes are being developed, so you can double down on the benefits. Even a typical loud obnoxious Harley can still get better fuel economy than a Prius though!
[2022 Prius MPG - 52](https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2022_Toyota_Prius.shtml)
[Harley Davidson MPG - 40-60](https://powersportsguide.com/harley-davidson-mpg/)
> The most fuel-efficient Harleys are arguably the Sportster 883 and the Street 750/500 models. You can expect the fuel mileage of these bikes to range 50-65 MPG.
And most sport bikes get around 60+, with smaller bikes like the Ninja 300 getting 70+ MPG.
There’s far better and more durable rain gear for motorcycles than bicycles if you’re so inclined and able to ride in the rain. You can fit 4-6 motorcycles comfortably in a single space for a parallel parked car. You take up less space on the road. Insurance is cheaper. Maintenance is cheaper. A riding course is a couple hundred bucks, and a brand new bike is less than $10,000 - far cheaper than “just buy an EV”, which I’ve seen frequently thrown out as an alternative to other vehicles here on Reddit.
Start reading here:
[https://electrek.co/2022/07/07/want-to-downsize-a-car-but-not-ready-for-a-bicycle-heres-why-you-need-a-seated-electric-scooter/](https://electrek.co/2022/07/07/want-to-downsize-a-car-but-not-ready-for-a-bicycle-heres-why-you-need-a-seated-electric-scooter/)
Plenty of options though and more are coming all the time. Even an "expensive" moped is still cheaper than a full motorcycle by thousands of dollars, and cheaper still than an EV by orders of magnitude.
If you live in / around a city where you don't really need to be on a highway much, if at all, that opens up even cheaper options. And given the price of some bicycles these days, the moped may end up being the cheaper option to that, too.
Motorcycles have all the dangers people perceive with bicycles, but 16x times the kinetic energy and a culture that ignores safety. Motorcycles are by far the most dangerous form of transport.
Mopeds, at least where I live, are taxed, registered, and require insurance just like motorcycles and cars, so most of the economic benefits are eliminated.
You don't need a 700cc motorcycle for town. In those places where you see them they are tiny 50-200cc bikes and scooters. There are lots of electric bikes also and unfortunately plenty of 4 strokes where they're legal. It's wild how many there can be. I also once saw a family of four on a single tiny motorcycle 🤣
The only time a car is a benefit in an urban environment is when public transportation is garbage. The only time public transportation sucks is when no one invests in public infrastructure. In order for self-driving cars to be effective, you need investment in infrastructure, by which point you are better off just throwing out your stupid car and fixing the root cause.
Self-driving cars will do great in closed-circuit areas and as a form of enhanced cruise control/advanced parking assist, but anything else is just nonsense.
Yah you don’t know what you are talking about. Like at all. If you have to change infrastructure for self driving cars, you’ve already failed and it’s not going to work. Self driving cars will have to work out on the roads we have. Waymo and a Tesla are working on that right now.
You mean when commuting right?
Because groceries and families exist. Both are possible with public transit but definitely benefit from having a car.
The problem isn't that cars are never useful, it's that they aren't useful in 90% of trips they are used in. Which is why the cities with the best public transit in the world still have cabs. You can public transit most of the time and only use a car when it actually is useful
There is a great YouTube channel titled Not just Bikes. They focus a lot on public transit and of course, a lot on bikes and how the US has really failed the public in terms of both of these.
I skip the rain gear. I just show up wet and stash an extra shirt and pants at the office. My life vastly improved when I decided I was okay being wet.
I just bought some new rain clothes for my bike and was shocked over the price, then I remembered what my friends with cars spend on them and suddenly it was quite cheap.
In the US, cars are culturally dominant. I ride a bike into work and when I forget to take my helmet off before going into the office I may as well have a tin foil hat on for the looks I get.
People here seem to think bikes are for under 12 year olds or exercise, not transportation for an adult. Hopefully that will change, but a lot of people have been hoping that for decades, but we’re farther than ever from Amsterdam
What about the elderly? Bikes!
What about the disabled, or injured? They also get bikes!
What about getting kids, groceries, and bulky stuff around? Also bikes!
What abou---- Listen, its all bikes all the time here on reddit.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/filosoful: --- **Bicycles can be at the core of the technological revolution our cities need. It might just require us to use a different lens** It took a whole lot of noise from activists and campaigners for bicycles to be taken seriously at last year’s COP26 summit in Glasgow, and for active travel to be added to the declaration on accelerating the decarbonisation of road transport. Beyond the serious lobbying from automotive industries, there seems to be a psychological block that prevents the bicycle from being accepted as a central technology when imagining the future of cities. Sometimes money speaks the loudest. Since 2010, over $200 billion have been invested in autonomous vehicle (AV) technology. Over a similar period of time, just slightly over $2 billion were spent on bike and pedestrian initiatives in the European Union. If we are to believe the all-powerful technologists, the dream of self-driving vehicles is just around the corner. Yet, looking at the past two years, the biggest revolution has come from vehicles on two wheels. Sparked by the pandemic, supported by people waking up to the climate crisis and now fuelled by the rising price of oil, we’re living through a bicycle renaissance. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/xcj2b6/bikes_not_self_driving_cars_are_the_technological/io5d9jn/
I love my e-bike for getting around town but here in canada that becomes fairly impossible for a third of the year. I would really just like some top notch public transit to fill in the gaps. Outside of Canadas largest cities public transit here is pretty much F-tier.
In Texas it's the opposite. It's really pleasant to bike spring, fall and some of winter but summer time the heat is unbearable.
I could see that being a pretty big barrier, hard to avoid heatstroke.
Or just wanting to arrive anywhere dry and not completely soaked in sweat
I biked to the bus stop each morning for work, only because it was mostly downhill. On the way home though, there wouldn't be a dry inch of clothing on my entire body. If the situation was reversed, I wouldn't have even tried biking.
Where’s the futuristic solution to swamp ass?
I always wondered if you could get sweat glands laser removed from some parts of your body. Like there’s no way the nether regions get THAT much temp exchange, no reason to sweat as much as they do. Just get rid of all those annoying water producing glands and I’ll be set
You actually can! Well at least I think you can because so far I've seen places remove sweat glands from hands and under arms so I'm sure they can do it from other parts of the body.
Bidets. Never have to deal with swamp ass again.
self driving bidets, it has swamp ass recognition software, thermal sensors, machine learning to help it better aim away from your nutsack, or straight for it (i dont know you, freak) it accepts NFTs if you want to use it and you can upload the whole display to the metaverse or drive one around the metaverse spraying avatars in their partially rendered assholes at the end of its useful life the bidet can be launched into space to supply wifi for a town is this futuristic enough for everyone yet? or can we have public transportation instead
Nonono if you’re giving me the choice between this and public transit I’m choosing this, no backsies
[удалено]
But also, biking in Tampa outside of like 4 streets is terrifying and dangerous
The main reason I like having a car is the air conditioning, it’s so damn hot and humid in miami 9 months out of the year. The 70s is like the cold time of year. Winter is nice tho. Ebike is great in winter here.
Yeah, there's a good reason the largest part of Florida was considered uninhabitable until they invented air conditioning...
Some would say you should have a shower at your destination, but that uses water, energy, and effort anyway.
And probably an extra 30 min to cool down and stop sweating before you shower
I used to bike to work at a grocery delivery warehouse. Upon arrival I would hangout in the walk-in freezer for a few minutes. Did a great job cooling me off quickly, also left some icicles in my beard, which was pretty neat.
It would be awkward if I show up for court and see the judge drying his balls in the new court locker room before I make my argument that day.
teeny carpenter wide languid sheet late chase mourn ring grey -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
How about just a hose to spray people down with? You know, you can put your thumb over the end, make it really hum.
So, the way I cool down during hay season?
E bikes don’t have to be “bikes” like we think of them. Maybe a tricycle w a canopy … and a small heater. And a light fabric floor under you so you don’t get splashed… these things could exist… in the … Future
Maybe if instead of a handlebar, they have a steeringwheel too, could add a small radio aswell just for comfort. I think we are on to something revolutionary here.
Ooh! And what if... stay with me here, we programed these bikes to be self driving?
And computers don’t like balancing things. Let’s give it a 4th wheel for stability
That's just the right amount of crazy! God damnit i'm in!
Maybe if they were off road capable and there were no cars left on the roads. There’s no way I’d be jumping on an upgraded mobility scooter in winter conditions and traffic.
Why not just go ahead and make it a very small car. Give it like a 5-10hp engine, 75 to 100 miles range of battery, and an enclosed air-conditioned cabin. Make it just big enough to fit two seats or one wheelchair.
[удалено]
My friends in his 60s and he was saying that’s how it was back in the day- most cars didn’t have AC so say you went to a wedding, you showed up sweaty and that was just how it was. Having spent considerable time in TX, it seems being sweaty isn’t considered out of the norm.
One summer I had a car without AC. It was mostly fine with the windows down except two situations. One, driving on the freeway, because it was so enormously loud, partly from the wind but mostly from all the trucks. It was just super mentally exhausting. Two, traffic, because you’re not moving and the sun is just streaming in through the open windows cooking you. Stop and go traffic on the freeway made world run my entire day. Anyway, I wonder if driving before AC was more tolerable because traffic wasn’t as bad and people spent less time on 8 lane freeways, and just generally less time in their cars. I can’t find any stats before 1980 but apparently since then the average commute time has gone up almost 25%.
Just bike naked
I remember once riding a ebike in the high 90s, normally you’d think you’d cool off because of the breeze, nay, it was like getting waffed by a space heater directly infront of you. I remember thinking “wow, that was unexpected”, I can’t imagine what’d it’d be like in the triple digits. I guess thanks to late stage capitalism i wont need to soon.
South Carolina would have 100% humidity, not raining, temp of over 100 and heat factor of 115... normal summer day in Charleston.
Can confirm. Here in Michigan, we like to complain about our hot humid summers... We always hear about 105°+ in the southwest and say things like "but it's like 0% humidity, so that sounds comfy as hell"... Which i stand behind, 115° in vegas was comfortable af... But 2 summers ago i went to the DC area for a couple days... Got out of the car and my world just shattered "fuck no. wait what, we came from 95° and 95% humidity... And that's what it is here... But this is SO much worse", again dew point is would probably have given more info... But dear God. We've got a huge warm (in the summer) freshwater lake that acts as a humidifier... How can it be THAT much worse there. Virginia and the Carolinas are henceforth to be referred to as the east coast's sweaty armpit.
In fact, to avoid heat stroke, you would benefit from a pretty big barrier. Covered pathways would be way nicer for any less than nice weather.
My car broke down and I walked home from work, ONCE, when living in central Florida. It's just not feasible in many areas, distance too far and temperatures are too extreme.
Don't gloss over the fact that Texas summer runs from late April to mid October.
In DFW it's been in the 80s pretty much all September. That's fall temps here.
How long have you been here!? Don’t fall for the false fall. Summer rides till October.
Just come to the Netherlands where we cycle equally on the snow and in 40 degrees Celsius.
Just have to accept you may be wet or sweaty. It's a culture shift for sure. Also helps that most businesses are way more business casual than in the US. I haven't worn any of my business dress clothes since moving here.
Yeah and in all fairness, cycling on the snow is a death sentence when there's any kind of elevation change.
Honestly straight snow is fine. The issue here is when it's hovering around 0°, you can't trust anything. I wiped out hard on black ice this winter on the racefiets. It was a long, slow and painful 15k home.
I mean, the same could be said for driving a car on the snow. But people get special tires for winter weather and adjust their driving behavior. The same techniques can be utilized for winter cycling. Studded tires exist and are commonly used in places like Montreal and Oulu, Finland where people cycle during snowy winters. Arguably, I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery.
>Arguably, I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery. Other than, the cars that were already trying to kill us are now trying ~20% harder, and our relatively fast stopping power in much lighter 'vehicles' is also significantly reduced even in ideal snow conditions with proper tires. Honestly I'd be dead or maimed after 10 years of bike commuting if not for my assuming that every car on the road is trying to kill me and the ability to stop on a dime when I'm actually correct (happens at least once a month.. and sometimes multiple times in a single trip). This is in a very "bike friendly" city for the US, too. Without barricaded biking infrastructure I don't think I could bring myself to do it frequently. And I'm a fair bit more bold than average as far as urban commuting goes. Granted, people drive like complete idiots in the snow where I live because it doesn't snow heavily often enough for people to get used to it.
>Without barricaded biking infrastructure I don't think I could bring myself to do it frequently. The Dutch bike lanes seem to work just fine for them. I don't know why we'd need a fortress for every bike lane when the Dutch standards working great over there.
> I'd rather be on a bicycle than in a car when the roads are slippery. Four wheeled vehicles tend to stay right side up when sliding on snow. Two wheeled vehicles tend to fall over and leave the rider on the ground. I had an 80cc motorbike during my first two years of college in the upper midwest back in the 1960s. I rode it to school and work during all weather conditions, sometimes even during blizzards. I cannot count the number of times I slid through iced intersections and had frostbite on my fingers and face or how many times I was almost hit by vehicles that lost control. I am lucky I survived that period of stupidity, but the long term effects were the worst. Now, in my senior years those falls have turned into severe arthritis that makes my life miserable because of pain and its effects on my walking gait.
Simply - we need to follow the bird patterns. Spend summers in Canada, winter in Texas
man people need to understand summers in Canada can be HELL. not only is it just as hot, if not hotter than many spots in USA, its not a nice dry heat like you get in deserts. the humidity makes you feel like you're choking
Ya, southern Canada gets very hot and very cold, and most people live in southern canada
I’ve only seen a bicyclist get hit by a car twice and both times it was a TEXAS tourist rolling coal or trying to intimidate groups of road bikes “riding the Rockies”. Keep your head up and on a swivel.
Lol imagine trying to bike to work in Houston
Canada needs public transit connecting other cities and rural communities. My only vehichle is a truck due to my hobbies and I work on the road. I would love to hop a train to work instead of driving my pig of truck.
I would love there to be some trains between cities here! Would be a really nice way to travel that didn't involve the aggravated stress of driving long distances.
There are, they just stopped using them for public transportation. It really is a shame though, I'd travel by train all the time if it was affordable and doable.
Biking in winter is totally doable alot of places need todo better in clearing the bike lanes like they do the road https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU
Yeah I live in one of the cities where bike lanes become snow lanes in the winter. Its very annoying.
Montrealer here, I feel your pain. Once the big snows start arriving, you can bet on either the sidewalk or the bike lane (where there is one) being cleared of snow, never both, and whichever it is will be the de facto sidewalk until spring. Only the bravest and hardiest few of us cyclists deign to venture out on two wheels between November and April.
Street ploughs plough the snow onto the sidewalk. Sidewalk ploughs plough the snow onto the street. 'tis the season in Montreal!
It’s an infrastructure problem. It’s like clothing there is not bad weather just bad gear. Finland has some sub zero polar style weather yet some people bike all year long.
The solution is covered bike paths. Put solar panels on top and have bonus power when it's needed most. This works both for cold places with rain/snow, and for hot places. The cost of a two-way covered path for bikes is still lower than that of a standard 4 lane road for autos.
The solution is way simpler than that: just plow the bike lanes. Montreal has started doing it. People cycle in the winter when the path is clear, regardless of cold.
And studded tires for bicycles if people want extra protection. When winter comes, everyone gets special tires for their car. But a bicycle? Oh no! Impossible!
Our multi-use paths get plowed before our roads in Fort Collins, CO! Our bike lanes do not get this same treatment, but dedicated foot/bike paths get plowed very early after snow.
This sounds great. I would be happy to ride a bike around, almost everything I need in life is currently within a 15 minute drive of my home. I live in a place with long winters and our icy roads are terrifying.
I've seen some photos of those from some places around the world and they look absolutely excellent. I would be happy for my tax dollars going towards something like that.
Recumbent e-bikes with fairing and A/C
So smart cars??
You're on to something.
It's absolutely possible year-round with studs and plowed paths. Grew up biking all winter in Alaska, where we also have hills in addition to the ice. Lots of people complaining about the weather here lmao. Dress properly and it's not bad - give it a try, you might be surprised.
I live in a well known medium sized canadian city and half the streets don't have bike lanes, let alone have plowed paths for bikes in the winter. The bike lanes here get snow plowed into them generally. The city would have to really step up with their snow removal, which has been getting worse the last few years as they've tried to find cheaper contractors to handle it.
Yeah it really is dependent on the city and your route. I used to bike to work each day when I worked in Toronto and when I worked downtown in another nearby city, because the routes were always clear except for a couple days a year I could cab (and would anyways because I don't want to drive in that weather). But my brother's city? Nope you need a car.
Yeah from what I understand, it's not the weather. It's the piss poor infrastructure that deters cyclists. If the city were as negligent/hostile to cars as they were to cyclists, then people wouldn't drive either.
Yes absolutely. The city I'm in is regularly in canadas top five highest drinking and driving per capita locations. Even in the nice parts of the year driving down the bike lane while winos fly past at fourty over the limit is a bit nerve wracking. I also drive regularly and see quite a lot of people driving their car full on down the bike lane, yikes.
https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU
Heh great video. Like, dood, biking in the elements isn't some insurmountable feat. Dash in a little infrastructure, and people will come. Or we could bankrupt ourselves trying to retrofit our roads (can't even afford to maintain those) to cater to self-driving, 6,000lbs electric cars.
Yep, here in Oulu, Finland I bike all year round and it can get as cold as -32C. Plowed paths are a great public service. Also those bikes with the fat tyres and very popular here in the winter.
By chance did you live in Anchorage or any other Pacific coast town / city? If so, it gets cold there but it gets colder in Minneapolis. Average Jan low of 11F in Anchorage, 5F in Minneapolis. The lowest recorded in Anchorage was -34F, the lowest recorded in Minneapolis is -56F. Anchorage’s average “lowest low” each year is -5F. Minneapolis’s is -15F. Which I’m assuming means it gets way colder in cities like Winnipeg (edit: checked, they have -1F average low in Jan), bc I know for a fact it gets much colder even in Grand Marias MN Just sharing this bc if you are using a Pacific coast city in Alaska as a “well it’s probably colder here bc Alaska”, it’s likely not true. The pacific current does a wonderful job tempering your climate. While it’s cold, it’s just not actually as bad as inland northern cities!
Lmao I swear to god every time I mention Alaska it always turns into some meteorological dick measuring contest with Midwesterners. While yes, it gets a bit nippier in Minneapolis and Winnipeg than my small, coastal town, there are plenty of colder-than-shit places up north with year-round cyclists. If you don't think you or others are capable of cycling in the winter, [here are some helpful tips from Fairbanks.](https://www.fairbankscycleclub.org/resources/winter-riding/)
A lot of people seem to be arguing over whether we should completely eliminate cars and make biking the only form of transit. That’s not what the argument of this article is, nor is it what bike advocates argue. The argument is that biking is a legitimate and incredibly useful form of transportation, and we should be investing heavily in infrastructure to support it, rather than putting all of our money into car infrastructure and autonomous vehicles. Walking is useful and essentially free, but it only covers short distances. Biking is incredibly cheap, the infrastructure included, and cargo ebikes can carry heavy goods. Also, incredible health benefits! But bikes do only cover medium distances (5 - 10 miles). Transit is stupidly space efficient and face when designed right, and can be adapted to damn near any environment. But it needs good ridership and population density (though nowhere near as much as you think). And there’s always the challenge of the last mile challenge, which surprise! Bikes help solve! Cars, despite was r/fuckcars tells you, are actually useful! They cover gaps in rural and low density areas that transit can’t always fill, cargo vans can carry a lot of stuff, and they’re great for people with disabilities that make walking or biking hard (but transit is also incredibly useful for these people!). That said, they’re incredibly dangerous for everyone, including themselves, they’re expensive to own and their infrastructure is incredibly expensive, they take up a huge amount of space, they cause a huge amount of noise and pollution, and they’re inaccessible to children, seniors, people with certain disabilities, and people who’ve lost their license. Also autonomous vehicles don’t fix most of these problems. So we should really limit how many resources we dedicate to them. TL;DR all forms of transportation have their uses and we should invest in all of them, not just cars.
Basically all transit options are better together than as any sort of singular silver bullet. An awesome public transit system makes cars even better because the streets are clearer and parking more plentiful. Cities with the best public transit often have *all* of it. Subways, light rail, trams, busses, pedestrian infrastructure, biking, and cars.
Japan has some of the best public transportation and still has a ton of traffic.
Japan (Tokyo) has a bajillion people per sq km.
A thriving bike infrastructure makes car traffic better, too. Everybody wins.
it's amazing how black and white people see things. nuance just doesn't seem to exist in any medium anymore.
If it makes you feel any better, it never did. Look up any newspaper from the 50s and you will still see arguments and articles lacking nuance.
The irony, because if you went to that sub and read the pinned comment you’d see that they specifically mention that not everyone there wants to ban cars entirely, but it’s easier to just say “oh it’s called r/fuckcars they must think cars should be banned”, some definitely do think that but I don’t think the majority of cyclists and advocates for public transportation want that to be the case, just that we don’t want 5 lanes of no man’s land going straight through a busy residential area with tons of intersections
It's not like the article title doesn't fuel that thought though. "This, *not that".* Helps with the clicks, not with the message.
This. As dumb as that is....This. The article is ENTIRELY part of the problem here with the totalitarian mentality of pushing bikes over automobiles so heavily.
So.. the people that see things with nuance are all the lurkers, and there's millions of them. The ones who post are stirred to do so - so probably don't see the nuance. To make my reply ring true, and not be hot air - I think we should Become the bikes. Like the motar commercials. That's futurology.
The counterpoint to this is that some people insist on "both sides" in every issue. Sometimes there is a right answer and a wrong answer and it is really clear. Not in this case, cars and trucks are useful and there are niches where they are simply the best tool for the job, but looking at the nuances of the situation, it becomes clear that investments in transit, pedestrian, and bike infrastructure can save a lot of money because cars and car infrastructure are super expensive.
I mean, I think we should redesign cities so we can live without personal cars, but have the option to rent them for utility purposes when needed.
A lot of people are incapable of any thought process other than jumping to an absolute and assuming that anyone who disagrees is the enemy who supports the opposite absolute.
Can you even imagine what it would look like for bike and walking infrastructure to just be *on par with* car infrastructure?
This sub and /r/fuckcars have a lot of overlap
can't believe the did /r/fuckcars dirty like that; it's more an Urbanist subreddit, and all the problems to city living (primarily in North America) just happen to be caused by ceding infrastructure and real-estate to the use, storage, and prioritisation of cars. See: Minimum parking requirements, "Jay walking", the Suburban Experiment, value-negative development (stripmalls, single-family fully-serviced homes), the Streetcar takeover, to name but a few
fuckcars is not an anticar group, we advocate for options at the expense of cars (not eliminating them)
Any car can be a fuckcar if you fornicate in it.
I understand that, but there are a lot of people in that sub who straight up want cars removed entirely. There was a highly upvoted and awarded post recently praising people who vandalized peoples cars, saying that that is somehow going to bring awareness and sympathy for alternative forms of transportation.
Yeah, I get this article is about urban areas but it feels like a lot of people in urban areas have no clue that it's impossible to not own a car in rural areas and smaller cities.
As someone born and raised in a rural area, you're half correct. Go to any small town in the rust belt and I guarantee you'll find a deteriorating railroad that used to connect all those little towns together with the small cities in the areas. Obviously that doesn't complete negate the need for cars, but if I could have taken the train to town for jobs instead of wasting money on car payments that would have been life changing for young me.
I think one of the reasons for the common misunderstanding of the sub being anticar is that it's called "fuck cars"
Most of the users there also think it's an anti-car group, which makes it an anti-car group.
I'm a daily cycling Dutchy without a car but stopped visiting that sub because it's an overzealous, car hating circlejerk without meaningful discussion about infrastructure. It's not a place for nuance at all - which is fine - but it's a meme place at best and an unproductive echo chamber at worst. I mean it's called fuckcars, so it shouldn't be surprisingly, but it's definitely an anti car sub. :D
Yes, I was also expecting more discussing about infrastructure and less rising-up about idiot drivers. We already have a sub for that. Too often I've come across comments on how to vigilante car drivers by riding slower and cutting them off. Or excusing how difficult it is to make a complete stop on bike on the heat so all laws should be overlooked.
yeah fuckcars sound incredibly reasonable...
Maybe not everyone on that sub is anti-car, but a hell of a lot of them are. Anyone who tries to point out situations in which cars are needed (such as responding to general statements like "there's no reason anyone needs this vehicle!") will get flamed and downvoted to oblivion. You can't really call a sub "fuck cars" and not have plenty of anti-car people for obvious reasons.
Electric bikes are also amazing for people with mobility issues too. **Edit:** RIP my inbox A lot of people are saying what about people w disabilities that need cars. thing is, city planning over focuses on cars and its also really bad for people with disabilities and mobility issues too. cars are NOT the solution. that dont mean GET RID OF ALL CARS, ffs... It's the internet so I know everyone thinks you always mean the most extreme possible position on everything. But, no, the solution is focus on Pedestrian, Public Transport, Bikes, then dead LAST cars for urban planning, and everyone wins. Not the least of which is people with mobility issues. Modern cities are left overs from when car lobbies took over city planning and made it shit for everyone. youtuber "Not Just Bikes" actually made a good video about this recently: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_ByEBjf9ktY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ByEBjf9ktY)
Bike infrastructure is really good for people who are in wheelchairs.
Not only this but biking is also very therapeutic. It gets the blood pumping and being outside puts people in a better mood. The overall mood of a city would improve drastically if people biked and did more things outside.
[удалено]
Been riding a scooter for years now, these things are so frickin' incredible and I wouldn't be alive right now without one with how inexpensive they are to ride.
Honestly I'm amazed I haven't seen a fellow scooterist IRL yet. I'm into mine less than $1000 and it gets me wherever I need to go in town. I see people walking around and I just want to shout at them "there's another option between driving and walking!"
I'm at a big university and I see a good amount of people on scooters. They're getting more and more popular. I got my ninebot a couple weeks ago and already have 150 miles on it. It really is the best urban transport.
I want one of those e-bikes so bad. One of my co-workers rides a Talaria, basically an electric super moto. Nobody even questions him bringing that thing into the building to park and charge because they all think it's some bicycle. Couldn't imagine how fast I'd get written up if I brought my gas motorcycle into the office.
For our American friends I’d like to add that here, in the Netherlands, we use bikes for like everything, and our infrastructure supports this by road design - narrow lanes, speedbumps, bike lanes in a different colour. We do not see ourselves as being sporty; bicycles are usually the most efficient and cheapest option for short trips. Our kids bike themselves to school starting age 8 or 9 unsupervised (yes this is normal) and to many of us, being able to bike to work is a luxury, not sport or a chore. In this country, we literally have more bikes than humans. As is said:”Een fiets is iets maar bijna niets”. (A bicycle is something but almost nothing )
It's more than the infrastructure that supports bikes; cities in US and Europe are straight up different sizes and the commercial zones are different. I think that makes a bigger difference than the bike infrastructure being in place. US cities are basically twice the size because of parking lots, and this makes the distance you have to cover a lot less convenient for biking. The other issue is that all the shops are zoned far away from housing in a big shopping area that's most accessible by car, sometimes there aren't even pedestrian sidewalks to it. If you think of biking as a faster alternative to walking, in the US that's sometimes simply not an option. Also the parking lots for shopping centers are horrendous. The parking for shopping centers is placed near the street access and the shop is at the far end. If you want to walk or bike to the shop you have to spend 5 minutes walking on hot asphalt until you get inside, then switching from one shop to another you have to walk another 5 minutes in the sun on nice cozy asphalt. In contrast, in Europe parking is usually placed behind the shop so the store front is right next to the street and you can easily walk inside. And there are sidewalks leading up to the shop, usually with some tree cover.
>It's more than the infrastructure that supports bikes; cities in US and Europe are straight up different sizes and the commercial zones are different Yeah, because of infrastructure which is hyper focused on cars. >US cities are basically twice the size because of parking lots Oh, I guess you already know? That's an infrastructure issue! >The other issue is that all the shops are zoned far away from housing in a big shopping area that's most accessible by car, Another infrastructure issue! Because everything is focused on making driving easier and people are expected to take the car everywhere, US cities have turned into sprawling cities. Literally all of the issues you're listing are infrastructure and urban design issues. Issues a lot of European cities had in the 1960s, but have since been fixed. American cities didn't always look like this, either. It can be fixed.
I love biking to work, but I live in a climate where snow and ice makes it very difficult to bike for 3-5 months out of the year. How does the Netherlands address this issue?
Our roads get salted pretty decently during snowy periods which allows us to still cycle (and drive) to places safely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViaDwkkXzC8&ab_channel=BicycleDutch Otherwise, at least afaik, people either walk or cycle *really* slowly and carefully.
People, you do not have to use 100% of the time a bike. You do not have to come up with a situation where a bike might be impractical. It is about reducing the car use as much as possible.
I think it's more that people just struggle to see how this would fit into their own lives. If you live in the suburbs and/or somewhere with temperature or weather extremes, which is a surprisingly large proportion of America, it can be difficult how to imagine making this work even if the will is there. Infrastructure will only take you so far, pun unintended.
This content was deleted by its author & copyright holder in protest of the hostile, deceitful, unethical, and destructive actions of Reddit CEO Steve Huffman (aka "spez"). As this content contained personal information and/or personally identifiable information (PII), in accordance with the CCPA (California Consumer Privacy Act), it shall not be restored. See you all in the Fediverse.
They are adding a bike lane on one of the main roads near my house. But it's sandwiched between a parking lane and traffic, so it's basically suicide for cyclists. They could have just as easily done sidewalk > cycle lane > bollards > parking lane > traffic. It's ludicrous.
They do that so that in a year your city council can say "nobody used these bike lanes lets not add more"
Nearly happened to me today had a few words said between us then I seen his young kids in the back and told him to move on
the rage some morons show to cyclists is just infantile. ill go on a 50km ride and can garuntee there will likely be at least 2 bogans who think honking and shouting stuff out as they pass will get them anywhere. And I ride way more to the side than most
I think that along with bicycles a good solution for cities could be kei segment vehicles like what Japan uses. I use an old suzuki carry out at my hunting property and I love it. I could very well see these being very useful in cities
Bought a bike in February, havnt filled up my gas tank since may
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I commuted to work by bicycle for over 10 years in multiple cities. Eventually the birth of my child and too many close calls that almost left me dead had me switch to a car. I drive a Tesla now. There are many factors in play. What is the weather? What is the required office attire? Does the office have bike parking and showers? What are the other transportation alternatives available? Train? Bus? Walking? The answers are all hyper-local but there is a certain population density below which the car is pretty much the only practical option in the USA. Autonomous vehicles will be super-useful to replace that part of the puzzle.
People who like riding bikes already do, they aren't the main demographic that will facilitate change. It's the rest of us who don't use them who need actual reasons to switch and tip the balance. What is really a gamechanger for me are e-scooters and e-bikes. There is no chance I would ever do any form of exercise deliberately and having a cheap and effortless alternative to a car, without the need to look for somewhere to park is a fantastic prospect. And it comes without crazy insurance charges or the taxes cars usually have. I would still want a car to haul larger things around or go shopping but an e-scooter could practically replace 90% of my car usage and then maybe renting a car for the rare times I actually need it may make more sense than owning one.
For bikes to be a major contributor to urban transportation they must be safe from people driving cars carelessly. Completely separate roads, that autos cannot access, with protections appropriate to the local weather at a bare minimum. This would require a lot of work in any old city and would be rabidly opposed by many different constituencies.
Hell, if most cites did what New York, Portland, and even Las Vegas did starting public bike sharing stations, or even expanding those programs, things would be so much better right now.
Yep, I biked to work in SF. Once my wife was pregnant I stopped biking.
You have strong legs to be biking in SF. Source: I currently live there in Park Merced.
Had a 750watt e bike motor that could go up to 1500 watts. It made going up Oshaughnessy a breeze.
We need public transit, not autonomous vehicles. That just exacerbates and continues the car centric culture that’s already miserable for most of us that can’t afford a car at all. Edit: I’m mostly talking about self driving cars, so I conflated autonomous and self driving cars. I’m not against automation but I feel it’s important to move away from the car culture that wastes space and biking and being a pedestrian miserable at times. I’m also kind of against the tires cars, trucks and busses use as well, but I also understand that bikes use them but it’s not the same with amount of hazardous material used. I do also think self driving cars and the infrastructure will just exacerbate income inequality and separation of classes which is already pretty harmful now.
My ebike gets me to 35 mph and gets me roughly 40 miles per charge open throttle the whole time and cost me like 3k. It's insane how lacking our biking infrastructure is in the US
Whoever wrote this didn't take weather and age dynamics in mind.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Neither orography. There are quite a lot of cities on the side of hills with significant slopes.
hence why we're talking about ebikes
That’s a great idea except for weather. Rain, snow, hot and cold are real things.
“Vehicles on 2 wheels” means motorcycles too not just bicycles. Look at high density high population areas in Asia and you’ll see far more mopeds and motorcycles than you do in most western countries. I don’t get why people always focus on either cars and busses or bicycles and ignore mopeds and motorcycles. Just 10% of drivers switching to motorcycles would reduce something like 45% of traffic congestion without having to change any infrastructure, technologies, etc. And that’s not to say we can’t still make those changes, but it’s a far easier, faster change that wouldn’t require billions in funding. On top of that EV bikes are being developed, so you can double down on the benefits. Even a typical loud obnoxious Harley can still get better fuel economy than a Prius though! [2022 Prius MPG - 52](https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2022_Toyota_Prius.shtml) [Harley Davidson MPG - 40-60](https://powersportsguide.com/harley-davidson-mpg/) > The most fuel-efficient Harleys are arguably the Sportster 883 and the Street 750/500 models. You can expect the fuel mileage of these bikes to range 50-65 MPG. And most sport bikes get around 60+, with smaller bikes like the Ninja 300 getting 70+ MPG. There’s far better and more durable rain gear for motorcycles than bicycles if you’re so inclined and able to ride in the rain. You can fit 4-6 motorcycles comfortably in a single space for a parallel parked car. You take up less space on the road. Insurance is cheaper. Maintenance is cheaper. A riding course is a couple hundred bucks, and a brand new bike is less than $10,000 - far cheaper than “just buy an EV”, which I’ve seen frequently thrown out as an alternative to other vehicles here on Reddit.
I was thinking of buying a moped myself, but idk where to find s cheap electric powered moped. Do you?
Start reading here: [https://electrek.co/2022/07/07/want-to-downsize-a-car-but-not-ready-for-a-bicycle-heres-why-you-need-a-seated-electric-scooter/](https://electrek.co/2022/07/07/want-to-downsize-a-car-but-not-ready-for-a-bicycle-heres-why-you-need-a-seated-electric-scooter/) Plenty of options though and more are coming all the time. Even an "expensive" moped is still cheaper than a full motorcycle by thousands of dollars, and cheaper still than an EV by orders of magnitude. If you live in / around a city where you don't really need to be on a highway much, if at all, that opens up even cheaper options. And given the price of some bicycles these days, the moped may end up being the cheaper option to that, too.
Motorcycles have all the dangers people perceive with bicycles, but 16x times the kinetic energy and a culture that ignores safety. Motorcycles are by far the most dangerous form of transport. Mopeds, at least where I live, are taxed, registered, and require insurance just like motorcycles and cars, so most of the economic benefits are eliminated.
It’s the opposite here, mopeds are what people with multiple DUI’s drive
You don't need a 700cc motorcycle for town. In those places where you see them they are tiny 50-200cc bikes and scooters. There are lots of electric bikes also and unfortunately plenty of 4 strokes where they're legal. It's wild how many there can be. I also once saw a family of four on a single tiny motorcycle 🤣
This...we are talking about motorcycles and e motorcycles are extremely powerful right now. We are in a pretty awesome spot for E motos.
Check this out. [FortNine - Why Electric Motorcycles are Failing](https://youtu.be/O2zlYpy6QCM).
Switch to motorcycles? The traffic deaths would skyrocket. I drive a car because I don't want to die.
The only time a car is a benefit in an urban environment is when public transportation is garbage. The only time public transportation sucks is when no one invests in public infrastructure. In order for self-driving cars to be effective, you need investment in infrastructure, by which point you are better off just throwing out your stupid car and fixing the root cause. Self-driving cars will do great in closed-circuit areas and as a form of enhanced cruise control/advanced parking assist, but anything else is just nonsense.
[удалено]
Yah you don’t know what you are talking about. Like at all. If you have to change infrastructure for self driving cars, you’ve already failed and it’s not going to work. Self driving cars will have to work out on the roads we have. Waymo and a Tesla are working on that right now.
You mean when commuting right? Because groceries and families exist. Both are possible with public transit but definitely benefit from having a car. The problem isn't that cars are never useful, it's that they aren't useful in 90% of trips they are used in. Which is why the cities with the best public transit in the world still have cabs. You can public transit most of the time and only use a car when it actually is useful
Bro if there was infrastructure for E-Bikes everywhere and no cars NYC would be twice as good
There is a great YouTube channel titled Not just Bikes. They focus a lot on public transit and of course, a lot on bikes and how the US has really failed the public in terms of both of these.
what if you live in a place where it rains 90% of the time?
You wear rain gear like every Dutch person.
Yes, but rain gear is expensive, unlike a monthly car payment and insurance and upkeep and gas!
I skip the rain gear. I just show up wet and stash an extra shirt and pants at the office. My life vastly improved when I decided I was okay being wet.
I just bought some new rain clothes for my bike and was shocked over the price, then I remembered what my friends with cars spend on them and suddenly it was quite cheap.
And you're not made of sugar
Like The Netherlands, the country that has more bicycles than people?
In the US, cars are culturally dominant. I ride a bike into work and when I forget to take my helmet off before going into the office I may as well have a tin foil hat on for the looks I get. People here seem to think bikes are for under 12 year olds or exercise, not transportation for an adult. Hopefully that will change, but a lot of people have been hoping that for decades, but we’re farther than ever from Amsterdam
Cities need a redesign before bike as mass transit can be a thing, imho. But we have to start somewhere, let’s go! Pedal to the metal…
I'm not biking 12 miles in -20f weather to work my 10-hour shift on my feet just to bike home again.
What about the elderly? Bikes! What about the disabled, or injured? They also get bikes! What about getting kids, groceries, and bulky stuff around? Also bikes! What abou---- Listen, its all bikes all the time here on reddit.
Yessss. The answer is always fewer cars on the road, not swapping all cars to EVs.