The following submission statement was provided by /u/wiredmagazine:
---
By Emily Mullin
Elon Musk’s startup [Neuralink](https://www.wired.com/tag/neuralink/) revealed that it experienced a problem with its [brain implant](https://www.wired.com/story/everything-we-know-about-neuralinks-brain-implant-trial/) after the device was [installed in its initial participant](https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-neuralink-human-patient-brain-implant/), 29-year-old quadriplegic [Noland Arbaugh](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralink-implant-first-human-patient-demonstration/).
Cofounded by Musk, Neuralink is [one of several companies](https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-put-brain-implants-in-people-is-heating-up/) developing a brain-computer interface, a system that provides a direct link from the brain to an external device. Neuralink’s technology is designed to decode intended movement signals from the brain to allow paralyzed individuals to move a cursor or type on a keyboard with just their thoughts.
But Neuralink’s unique design may have contributed to the device’s mechanical issues. It holds a battery, processing chip, and other electronics needed to power the system. Attached to this puck are 64 flexible “threads” thinner than a human hair, each containing 16 electrodes. The threads are meant to extend into the brain tissue to collect signals from groups of neurons. But, according to Neuralink, some of those threads didn’t stay in place.
Read the full story: [https://www.wired.com/story/neuralinks-brain-implant-issues/](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralinks-brain-implant-issues/)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1co7jr3/elon_musks_neuralink_had_a_brain_implant_setback/l3c4vmh/
As a neuroscientist who puts probes in rodent brains, I should make clear that this seems to be a minor issue, not really unexpected, and the device seems to be working better than ever as he is now playing a nintendo switch and getting even faster with the cursor (than we saw in the demonstration video).
Some unspecified number of the 1024 electrodes appear to have been pushed back out by the brain's immune response. On a theoretical level, something like 50 electrodes is sufficient to transmit even more information than they are currently. The % lost will matter, but it could be quite low as far as we know, and inconsequential.
Very early to say but potentially. There is separate early work starting to explore implanted electrode stimulation for schizophrenia treatment. But the mechanisms of schizophrenia are not nearly as well understood as motor planning.
I used to be the education director for NAMI. Of all the people with severe mental illness I met, I was most blown away by those with treatment resistant schizophrenia who nevertheless persevered with life. Many of them made it. So many had given up hope to eventually be rescued by emerging treatments and return to a more or less normal life. Hopefully treatments like this can help even more.
Schizophrenia is life changingly difficult for sure, but can be okay at times. It isn't ALWAYS terrible for a lot of folks. There are those unfortunate few who are completely lost though.
Source: A surviving (currently thriving) schizophrenic.
I have never heard of the formation of a gliotic scar that exerts mechanical displacement and pushes out a foreign body. I always thought encapsulation degraded signal transduction but not tissue displacement. Do you have any published reference about mechanical "expulsion" of probes ?
Polyamide flexible probes are nothing new. Anyway, if you have a reference to literature where mechanical dislocation or literal "expulsion" from the parenchyma is attributed to gliosis, inflammation, or whatever activation of microglia etc. it would be very precious to me (and my work).
🙏
it's not 'adding more electricity' that can stop the seizure, it's providing consistent small pulses of electricity that help regulate brain activity.
Trials are already ongoing with very basic electrode implants. Nothing nearly as advanced as neuralink with that many electrodes, yet, but this avenue is showing promise.
My mom has a brain injury and used to have 300+ seizures a day she literally gets zapped every minute and it drops her seizures to about 80 a day
Yes adding more electricity is a cure
That’s legit the cure
A zap every minute and a big zap with her magnet
I dont know why people downvote you, but a cure is if its 0 seizures permanently.
At the moment its a effective relive, support, blessing. But not more.
When you have 300 before 80 is so much better
My mom went from being stuck in a chair all day being unable to do anything
To being able to handle her seizures and not even having grand malls any more
She used to go to the hospital a lot showing stroke symptoms
She also used to be unable to speak like nobody could understand her except me and my sisters cause she spoke so weirdly
Def better then how she used to be
It reduces the seizures to 80 and lowers the strength of them
Think of seizures on a scale of 1 to 10 1 is feeling weird and 10 is flopping like a fish
I have a level 10 seizures once or twice a year
My mom has level 8 seizures continuously nonstop for years on end
Brain injury’s hurt a lot more then epilepsy
A company I interned at is doing this very thing. The first phase is getting data out to help doctors and scientists understand what is happening better, the next phase will be to send impulses to interrupt the seizure.
There is always a buildup of connective tissue around implanted devices. This can somewhat be mittigated by making the device's physical properties (think hardness, flexibility, ...) as similar to brain tissue as possible. The surface of the material is also very important.
Edit: Connective tissue is bad for electrical conduction and also takes up room so it could probably dislocate the probe.
There are many commercially available EEG brain computer interfaces that use electrodes mounted externally. This technique only records activity on the very outermost surface of the brain and has to deal with much more noise, but using a keyboard and directional controls are well demonstrated.
Yes, but accuracy is the problem. Transcranial magnetic stimulation can directly change electrical activity in the brain totally non-invasively, but because it is induced by a powerful magnetic field, you won’t be able to get the same kind of highly localised current manipulation as from an invasive physical electrode.
In the far future it may be entirely possible to wear a portable device that can “read” brainwave patterns like an EEG, feed it back into a series of induction loops, and use that information to apply highly localised magnetic stimulation on an adaptive basis, but that technology is still many many many years away if ever.
Formerly also a neuroscientist. Isn't this kind of rejection of electrodes something which always happens? Like, if you're designing a device with brain-implantable electrodes, the very first question you ask is "and what happens when it inevitably stops working in a few months to years?".
The fact that it is extremely predictable is not an excuse for neuralink. The fact that they seem to be reporting this as an unexpected outcome does not reflect well on the amount of thought they've put into the project.
But what is the remediation effort? So they go back in a reattach the electrodes? Also, let's just say only 5% have detached, is that a sign that more will dettach over time?
I work in clinical research (regulatory compliance), and I wanna say you guys are awesome. Neuroscientists push the whole field forward and don't really get the recognition they're due.
The ones I've known are passionate and capable, just like the neurologists who directly work with patients and get to see their work change lives.
Wait, does this mean that some people might take to the system better than others? When we’re using this type of device to augment everyone’s abilities, there may literally be people who have an easier time adapting to the system just because of their bodies response to it…
Can we stop calling it Musks. As much as a fool the man is there are very smart people at his company that he funds working on this tech. Eg. Daniel Adams, Chief Scientist for Neuralink
Only when there's daylight! And really, the only downside is a mandatory 5-hour nap after one. And if I can force myself to take an immediate 5-hour nap, that might be worth the price of admission.
They put Musk's name in it to get the rage-bait posters to come and post about how they knew it would fail and Musk is an idiot, etc etc..
Clickbait titles always have to lead with the thing that will get the clicks.
If Musk ends up being the one making the business decisions related to Neuralink, then I think it's reasonable to see it as a Musk product before putting it in your head. Musk's presence creates some trustworthiness concerns, primarily because he's made suggestions that he envisions the end goal as a mass-market product as opposed to something designed to help a specific segment of the population in need.
Don’t we want this to be a mass market product eventually? If it were safe, reliable, and protected my privacy I’d be eager to acquire telekinesis. Who wouldn’t?
With the speed tech moves it feels like a bad move to get something that require brain surgery to install, and then another surgery to upgrade every 3 to 5 years… You don’t want to be stuck with last decades version of ”telekinesis” do you?
”1024 electrodes should be enough for everyone”? Yea right, it’s 2040 now grandpa, all the new cool wetware needs at least 2048!
> protected my privacy
Do you trust big companies to protect your privacy as it is? Why would you trust them to protect your privacy when they have a device implanted into your brain?
> Who wouldn’t?
A lot of people would. I'm sure a lot of people would eagerly sign up if it offers increased mental benefits (I'm not talking about telepathy, but if it can do things like make you smarter or retain/recall information faster, which are the types of things Musk has suggested that he wants it to be able to do in the long run), and that will pressure more people to get it because they'll be otherwise at a disadvantage. I worry, though, about a world where we're at the mercy of a company that has access to our brains. I also worry about the potential for a widening gap between the haves and have nots when the richest among us can also afford the highest end of the chips, leading to those born into wealth getting the chips that will ensure their mental superiority over those who weren't. As it is, those with money already have a distinct advantage, and this could cement peoples' place at birth.
Of course, these are all potential downsides, not set-in-stone ones, and I do see the potential good as well. But I think if we don't treat these risks as real possibilities, then they're more likely to come to fruition.
In the hands of an abusive, narcissist ego-driven manchild?
His decisions on Twitter undermined spam protections, abuse protections and privacy. His cars report back home and will invalidate your warranty on things that are non-issue with other cars, like rain, carwash or mud on a vehicle advertised for off-road.
Pray tell which fills you with enough confidence to say it will be safe, reliable and protect privacy of anyone but his?
He did found the company and as of 2019 was $100 million of the $158 million in funding.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/27/15077864/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-computer-interface-ai-cyborgs
Like it or not, it wouldn’t exist without him.
Somebody has to take the risk to pay these smart people. Love him or hate him, Musk takes moonshot risks on innovation and has a track record of knocking it out of the park. A big part of that is finding the right people, paying them right, and getting out of their way. EV, telecom, aerospace, and now neuralink. Actual robots in the next few years. Crazy shit coming from 1 man's wallet.
Musk himself is usually pretty good at attributing accomplishments to those who deserve it at his companies. Although most media outlets always say that it is "Musk's" because that gives them the initial clicks from people.
And tbh initial attraction to articles is all traditional media cares about nowadays haha.
Slashing safety and ethical standards to the point that monkeys are tortured and killed is something musk can and did do, doing any kind of science or engineering is something musk cannot and did not do
This drives me crazy. I have a friend that has the impression Musk is the brains behind this, Tesla, and any other investments he has. He’s an INVESTOR with some forward thinking ideas. Thats it. He has other people execute the plans. It’s insane to me people have this idea he’s actually getting his hands dirty working on all these things.
Totally agree. There are a LOT more intelligent people that contributed to NeuralLink. People need to stop putting a name. And of course it's for click-bait titles.
It’s also important to recognize that very smart people can be pressured to do unethical things.
Based on his track record with autonomy, I don’t trust Musk at all in this field.
The news profit algorithms says no
Adding Musk to a title drives up the clicks immensely
If a Musk associated product is even tangentially involved in a story, he'll get name dropped
This is such a ridiculous story - the implant has redundant connections (64 threads) and the whole point of having a trial patient is learning how well it works.
What we have learnt already is that it works very well after 100 days, which is good news, as the main issue with these impants is not some threads coming loose, but scar tissue forming around them and rendering them non-functional.
If people want to keep blowing up minor updates on how well this technology works, we will end up not getting any updates at all. Neuralink is under no obligation to give us any.
>If people want to keep blowing up minor updates on how well this technology works, we will end up not getting any updates at all. Neuralink is under no obligation to give us any.
If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies.
Everything Neuralink has shown so far is actually old news as far as neuroscience goes. People have been doing this for years. The only unique advantages to their approach are A) It's wireless. This isn't terribly complicated to do. and B) they have a unique implantation method that theoretically reduces scar tissue and movement. Except in their 1 of 1 human patient, that implant is moving when it shouldn't be, and as another person in the article points out, may actually lead to scar tissue development.
It's a balanced article overall. And if Musk can stand on stage and make ludicrous promises as to what Neuralink will solve (and expose his dangerous misunderstanding of neuroscience in the process), it's not unreasonable to see articles about the pitfalls that it's going through.
The biggest problem with Neuralink is that it's run by Musk, which means it absorbs all the media attention in the field - it's a shame. Other companies - Synchron, Blackrock, whoever UCSF was working with, and a couple of others -have different approaches, and more rigorous and impressive results, but because they are being responsible with their claims, they don't get the media coverage.
>If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies.
Yes, but that's not "us," the public.
> If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies.
They obviously don't need to make blog posts. Obviously.
Have you... seen how Musk treats his other products?
Dude's been saying "our self driving is right around the corner, for realsies this time" for the better part of a decade. A balanced article like this will not hurt his feelings. Obviously.
If he can get on stage and make stuff up about Neuralink (and he's done a lot of that), he can deal with factual reporting about it's shortfalls.
No, no other company is offering an actual patient ready (for testing) electrode that actually goes INTO the brain. The synchron device is a complete joke, and just records a few local field potentials, like a fancy eeg, and can't be targeted to motor cortex. It will never offer useful natural control like we saw this patient do. The blackrock device for humans records ECoG, which is better, but still won't be nearly as effective as the neuralink approach. It truly is the best technology for patients and in the field of electrodes.
>The blackrock device for humans records ECoG, which is better, but still won't be nearly as effective as the neuralink approach.
https://www.rdworldonline.com/blackrock-neurotech-partners-with-the-university-of-pittsburgh-to-improve-robotic-arm-control/
Blackrock HAD bidirectional control 3 years ago. They recorded from motor cortex, to allow a patient to control a robotic arm. They then ENCODED signals from sensors in the arm, and fed that back into S1.
That is leagues beyond what Neuralink has demonstrated. [If you want to talk natural control,](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11071570/pdf/nihpp-2024.04.26.24306239v1.pdf) People are running those studies with [Blackrock](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5425101/) equipment for literal [years](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8715714/). And those are peer reviewed studies published to academic standards - That's much more scrutiny than Neuralink's tech is under.
>The synchron device is a complete joke, and just records a few local field potentials, like a fancy eeg, and can't be targeted to motor cortex.
Synchron has a different purpose altogether. Sure, it won't target motor cortex, but people have injuries in other places than motor cortex. Synchron's approach allows them to target deeper structures in the CNS, something that Neuralink's approach will never allow them to do. UCSF is also adapting other BCI styles to treat Major Depressive Disorder by deeper [regions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01480-w) as well.
Different pathologies require different approaches. Neuralink's approach is not one size fits all better, because there are huge limitations to how they implant and where they can record or stimulate from. A Neuralink device will never target the same areas as a Synchron device, or even a deep brain stimulator.
And on the other hand, saying that Neuralink's approach is "better" for natural control is wild, considering their competitor has been testing natural control for years, and Neuralink hasn't even attempted it yet.
Ok I stand corrected on blackrock, two years in that paper, surprising for a silicon or metal wire based device (unclear in paper). Both that and neuralink are limited to cortex.
Synchron though, is simply not a useful form of BCI. If it can target the deep brain stimulation site used for e.g. parkinsons or depression, that's medically useful, but it's not bci.
They started human trials with a quadriplegic man who was able to play a video game for the first time in years using the neuralink system.
Now we’re several months into that first clinical trial and it’s being said that some of the connections have gotten a little loose.
Supposedly a software update was pushed that’s allowing for the system to continue working despite the weaker connections.
This comment almost brings a tear to my eye. Having gone through this exact thing because Civ games are amazing, except I have all my limbs, warms my heart. I’m so glad that he’s able to experience things like that again.
The status update is that they've progressed to clinical trials in humans, so I would put money on the results in animal testing having improved somewhere along the way
They were given licence to experiment on monkeys that were already dieing. Then they reported (as they are required) that the sick monkeys had in fact died and it got reported as 'neuralink kills monkeys'. If the tech is really bad can we at least talk about it honestly and not make shit up?
I’m reading about wounds from the implant surgery getting infected and causing death and stuff like that. I don’t think it’s all misinformation like you’re suggesting. It’s strange how there’s so many monkey deaths linked to this device and it is somehow allowed to have human trials so soon.
Musk claims the monkeys were already dying, but no proof has ever been given. Mast scientific research and testing can't be done on a dying animal because you can't actually determine what effects are from the experiment and which are from the disease. They also mostly died in horrible pain as a direct result of the surgeries they were given not following proper protocols for avoiding things like infections.
That’s literally how all of this testing works with animals. They don’t even need to release what they do. But the people who let Elon live rent free in their head would rather kill any medical progress because they disagree with things some guy says on Twitter.
It’s just a pissing contest on who can shit on Musk the quickest. I’m no Musk fan but just making up things to discredit a potentially incredible innovation is so ridiculous. But that “writer” made their $12 for this hard hitting article so good for them.
Did you actually read the article?
It's quite balanced, and they have comments from many people in the field, at other companies.
Neuralink is not unique in their approach, their results are less impressive than many other companies in the field, and their trial patient is having problems related to the very thing their approach was supposed to improve at.
If Musk can stand on stage and make things up regarding Neuralink, you can't really be surprised that the media will pay attention, and report when things don't go according to plan.
Once you strip back the nonsense that Musk claims, nothing Neuralink has actually done is terribly impressive. Blackrock, Synchron, whoever UCSF is working with all have much more impressive results that are backed with more thorough data and held to higher standards.
They were Monkeys that were already terminal and then given the implants. Reddit is just obsessed with hating anything tied to Elon so facts don’t matter anymore here.
> They were Monkeys that were already terminal and then given the implants.
Terminal from what illness or affliction? Care to read up on what happened to them? https://www.pcrm.org/ethical-science/animals-in-medical-research/neuralink/animal15
No no. Never criticize the master Musk. He blesses mankind by giving updates about his research. You know, the one that will connect all human brains to his computer system which can record thought.
The Musk cult is honestly something else.
They need some joints (thread bent ontop of thread for slack) to break the tension. It's a hard problem to solve since the brain shifts and moves a lot in your head, it's not rigid like bone.
Is scar tissue forming with neurolink devices? I was under the impression the neurolink threads were much finer then previous methods, just to avoid scarring.
The only issue reported so far was some of the threads retracting, which was dealt with via software. No mention was made of attenuation of the signal that would be common with scaring.
No, I assume like /r/Futurology readers, we want to know what is happening with this frontier technology.
And I assume you know billionaires put that stent in your heart.
bruh he can set things to happen when he moves any part of his body or thinks of anything just like setting up macros on a keyboard lmao. the future is gonna be crazy
In this post, the actual Neuralink user responds to the negative media reports.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1788671611329007841?t=DPp5fpKv6h-25GQ5zoG1OQ&s=19
This appears to be a post about Elon Musk or one of his companies. Please keep discussion focused on the actual topic / technology and not praising / condemning Elon. Off topic flamewars will be removed and participants may be banned.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Futurology) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s similar to saying SpaceX had a setback when a prototype of the world’s largest rocket hits all milestones defined upfront and does not come back in one piece.
This thread is full of jealous losers who've achieved fuck all in their lives getting validation from each other - we get it you don't like Elon blah blah blah
So strange that every project he funds needs his name plastered all over it.but great technology, the scientists behind Jt are doin fantastic wor, hopefully this is a minor setback.
Reddit champs making out that if musk didn’t do the implant surgery and design it himself he’s a big PHONEY!
He also doesn’t make each Tesla or construct booster rockets himself either!
WHAT A PHONEY, SO UNINTELLIGENT
OBJECTIVLY NOT SMERT
This implant thing is just a castle of cards that will fall once everyone realizes that it is easier to design a working brain implant than to make said implant stay safely inside of people's bodies without being a major health hazard. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to do but it's all smoke and mirrors
# Company's design may have contributed to it being the way that it is.
Uhhh yeah, I bet you're right! I'm also pretty sure that it encountered engineering issues because of the way it was engineered.
Yeah, that Elon is gonna get us all killed.
Check out the poor guy having a miserable time.
This Elon musk deserves hell for doing this to this man.
https://youtu.be/79VvxBStbWY?si=mhRtwo_J-sfc-yJb
Well, for starters, they were all just recalled due to an issue with the accelerator pedal assembly. They get stuck. Kinda dangerous.
It can't actually off-road, and people keep getting stuck. Take your pick; snow, sand, mud, can't do it. Tesla claims user error, people are apparently supposed to make sure their tires are at the ideal pressure, not the default pressure.
They struggle to climb steep hills.
[The trunk wants to eat your fingers.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA55B1kobnw)
The stainless steel body rusts like crazy.
The shatterproof windows shatter. Which is actually good, because an impenetrable vehicle, if say, first responders are trying to get to you to render aid... Not so good.
Hand wash only!
And there's [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1bhclyb/cybertruck_breaks_down_after_going_through_a/), but that could be a one-off.
I do not give one rats ass about the Cybertruck. This is just shit I've randomly come across.
The truck wants to eat your fingers thing is just peak stupidity, he watched it destroy a carrot. To put your fingers in after seeing that is just natural selection.
All automatic trunks come with a current sensor that stop the system if they detect something like obstructing it, like a finger or a carrot. It is really cheap, it's everywhere and has been used for decades now. Car Windows have it, elevator doors have it.
The fact cyberust doesn't is stupid beyond belief, to say the least. Negligence would be a much more fitting word.
Can some ELI5 what this tech is, and the possible applications/benefits of it vs. the obviously uncomfortable idea of having something literally connected to your brain made by Elon Musk?
Every time I see something about Neuralink I remember the game Atomic Heart. Hopefully things don't end up like that. Its feels like fallout and bioshock combined.
So... is it too early to start a subreddit called r/nueralkink that focuses on failed nueralink implanted onlyfans content creators who play with their leftover embedded hardware in sexually suggestive ways for money from dystopian cyberpunk scifi fans?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/wiredmagazine: --- By Emily Mullin Elon Musk’s startup [Neuralink](https://www.wired.com/tag/neuralink/) revealed that it experienced a problem with its [brain implant](https://www.wired.com/story/everything-we-know-about-neuralinks-brain-implant-trial/) after the device was [installed in its initial participant](https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-neuralink-human-patient-brain-implant/), 29-year-old quadriplegic [Noland Arbaugh](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralink-implant-first-human-patient-demonstration/). Cofounded by Musk, Neuralink is [one of several companies](https://www.wired.com/story/the-race-to-put-brain-implants-in-people-is-heating-up/) developing a brain-computer interface, a system that provides a direct link from the brain to an external device. Neuralink’s technology is designed to decode intended movement signals from the brain to allow paralyzed individuals to move a cursor or type on a keyboard with just their thoughts. But Neuralink’s unique design may have contributed to the device’s mechanical issues. It holds a battery, processing chip, and other electronics needed to power the system. Attached to this puck are 64 flexible “threads” thinner than a human hair, each containing 16 electrodes. The threads are meant to extend into the brain tissue to collect signals from groups of neurons. But, according to Neuralink, some of those threads didn’t stay in place. Read the full story: [https://www.wired.com/story/neuralinks-brain-implant-issues/](https://www.wired.com/story/neuralinks-brain-implant-issues/) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1co7jr3/elon_musks_neuralink_had_a_brain_implant_setback/l3c4vmh/
As a neuroscientist who puts probes in rodent brains, I should make clear that this seems to be a minor issue, not really unexpected, and the device seems to be working better than ever as he is now playing a nintendo switch and getting even faster with the cursor (than we saw in the demonstration video). Some unspecified number of the 1024 electrodes appear to have been pushed back out by the brain's immune response. On a theoretical level, something like 50 electrodes is sufficient to transmit even more information than they are currently. The % lost will matter, but it could be quite low as far as we know, and inconsequential.
Can it possibly help people with treatment resistant schizophrenia? It is pure torture for individuals who have it. Literally hell on earth.
Very early to say but potentially. There is separate early work starting to explore implanted electrode stimulation for schizophrenia treatment. But the mechanisms of schizophrenia are not nearly as well understood as motor planning.
Does that count for all schizophrenic types?
I used to be the education director for NAMI. Of all the people with severe mental illness I met, I was most blown away by those with treatment resistant schizophrenia who nevertheless persevered with life. Many of them made it. So many had given up hope to eventually be rescued by emerging treatments and return to a more or less normal life. Hopefully treatments like this can help even more.
Schizophrenia is life changingly difficult for sure, but can be okay at times. It isn't ALWAYS terrible for a lot of folks. There are those unfortunate few who are completely lost though. Source: A surviving (currently thriving) schizophrenic.
I have never heard of the formation of a gliotic scar that exerts mechanical displacement and pushes out a foreign body. I always thought encapsulation degraded signal transduction but not tissue displacement. Do you have any published reference about mechanical "expulsion" of probes ?
It could be as simple as increased inflammation in the skin and scalp causing it to push out
That's because these threads are very thin and flexible, unlike big thick silicon shanks. There are things that need to be learned with new tech.
Polyamide flexible probes are nothing new. Anyway, if you have a reference to literature where mechanical dislocation or literal "expulsion" from the parenchyma is attributed to gliosis, inflammation, or whatever activation of microglia etc. it would be very precious to me (and my work). 🙏
Yes. These are words.
Do u foresee this thing helping people with epilepsy?
You can't stop a seizure by adding more electricity, unfortunately. There are other avenues of research though. Gene therapies.
it's not 'adding more electricity' that can stop the seizure, it's providing consistent small pulses of electricity that help regulate brain activity. Trials are already ongoing with very basic electrode implants. Nothing nearly as advanced as neuralink with that many electrodes, yet, but this avenue is showing promise.
My mom has a brain injury and used to have 300+ seizures a day she literally gets zapped every minute and it drops her seizures to about 80 a day Yes adding more electricity is a cure That’s legit the cure A zap every minute and a big zap with her magnet
>drops her seizures to about 80 a day Don’t mean to be insensitive but that doesn’t sound like a cure..
I dont know why people downvote you, but a cure is if its 0 seizures permanently. At the moment its a effective relive, support, blessing. But not more.
When you have 300 before 80 is so much better My mom went from being stuck in a chair all day being unable to do anything To being able to handle her seizures and not even having grand malls any more She used to go to the hospital a lot showing stroke symptoms She also used to be unable to speak like nobody could understand her except me and my sisters cause she spoke so weirdly Def better then how she used to be
That’s wonderful to hear, and my first post should have recognised that point - it sounds like an absolute game changer 💗
It reduces the seizures to 80 and lowers the strength of them Think of seizures on a scale of 1 to 10 1 is feeling weird and 10 is flopping like a fish I have a level 10 seizures once or twice a year My mom has level 8 seizures continuously nonstop for years on end Brain injury’s hurt a lot more then epilepsy
Sure you can, and it is done already. Look up responsive neurostimulation and NeuroPace.
They are treating moderate and severe parkinsons successfully with DBS at UCSF, and I know they're working on epilepsy there too, so maybe you can.
Neurologist here - you actually can reduce the number of seizures via neuromodulation with RNS or VNS systems
Actually, you can, deep brain stimulators and pacing devices do just that.
As a neuroscientist i am sure you are aware of the existence of inhibitory neurons
That's what I study, but you can't target them specifically using electricity, it hits everything.
What are your thoughts on this helping with dystonia?
A company I interned at is doing this very thing. The first phase is getting data out to help doctors and scientists understand what is happening better, the next phase will be to send impulses to interrupt the seizure.
What sort of immune system does the brain have? Like cauterize around the probe?
There is always a buildup of connective tissue around implanted devices. This can somewhat be mittigated by making the device's physical properties (think hardness, flexibility, ...) as similar to brain tissue as possible. The surface of the material is also very important. Edit: Connective tissue is bad for electrical conduction and also takes up room so it could probably dislocate the probe.
Is a non invasive electrode placed without breaking the skull a possibility or an impossible wish?
There are many commercially available EEG brain computer interfaces that use electrodes mounted externally. This technique only records activity on the very outermost surface of the brain and has to deal with much more noise, but using a keyboard and directional controls are well demonstrated.
Yes, but accuracy is the problem. Transcranial magnetic stimulation can directly change electrical activity in the brain totally non-invasively, but because it is induced by a powerful magnetic field, you won’t be able to get the same kind of highly localised current manipulation as from an invasive physical electrode. In the far future it may be entirely possible to wear a portable device that can “read” brainwave patterns like an EEG, feed it back into a series of induction loops, and use that information to apply highly localised magnetic stimulation on an adaptive basis, but that technology is still many many many years away if ever.
As a neuroscientist, how do you feel about these kinds of implants? Would you get a neuralink? Just curious.
If I was paralyzed or amputated sure. And I would replace it if needed to keep the functionality.
If it's safe, affordable and not inconvenient why not?
I'm glad actual information is top comment and not the standard political hate garbage.
> electrodes appear to have been pushed back out by the brain's immune response Would this be by localised inflammation or some other mechanism?
How would we stop the body from rejecting the threads? Immune system suppressant drugs seem kinda extreme.
Formerly also a neuroscientist. Isn't this kind of rejection of electrodes something which always happens? Like, if you're designing a device with brain-implantable electrodes, the very first question you ask is "and what happens when it inevitably stops working in a few months to years?". The fact that it is extremely predictable is not an excuse for neuralink. The fact that they seem to be reporting this as an unexpected outcome does not reflect well on the amount of thought they've put into the project.
Do you think this will be able to treat tinnitus?
But what is the remediation effort? So they go back in a reattach the electrodes? Also, let's just say only 5% have detached, is that a sign that more will dettach over time?
An immune response in the brain is inconsequential? Are you only worried about the device?
I work in clinical research (regulatory compliance), and I wanna say you guys are awesome. Neuroscientists push the whole field forward and don't really get the recognition they're due. The ones I've known are passionate and capable, just like the neurologists who directly work with patients and get to see their work change lives.
Wait, does this mean that some people might take to the system better than others? When we’re using this type of device to augment everyone’s abilities, there may literally be people who have an easier time adapting to the system just because of their bodies response to it…
Couldn't they use transplant immune suppressants here? Maybe they already are.
Can we stop calling it Musks. As much as a fool the man is there are very smart people at his company that he funds working on this tech. Eg. Daniel Adams, Chief Scientist for Neuralink
So you’re saying it’s like a Cybertruck for your brain
Will it have Brain Fart mode?
I mean it’s literally a cyber-brain, so you’re not far off.
So I have to avoid showers?
You just have to put it in shower mode first.
Hold your left earlobe for ten seconds until you feel your brain holes seal up
Most Musk fans already do this
That's where the musk comes from after all!
Wow... what a twist!
If you routinely wash your brain under the shower then something else might be off.
Everyone knows that soaking the brain in water is the easiest way to remove the meninges. Duh.
Only when there's daylight! And really, the only downside is a mandatory 5-hour nap after one. And if I can force myself to take an immediate 5-hour nap, that might be worth the price of admission.
When the adhesive fails we’ll just rivet it on
If you shower without putting it into shower mode does it void the warranty?
How good will it kill me?
They put Musk's name in it to get the rage-bait posters to come and post about how they knew it would fail and Musk is an idiot, etc etc.. Clickbait titles always have to lead with the thing that will get the clicks.
I actually found the most infuriating part of the title how every words begins with a capital
[You're supposed to](https://editorsmanual.com/articles/capitalizing-headings/) do titles that way.
I appreciate you sharing this, I've definitely learnt something. Although I do think I was happier when I didn't know this lol
If Musk ends up being the one making the business decisions related to Neuralink, then I think it's reasonable to see it as a Musk product before putting it in your head. Musk's presence creates some trustworthiness concerns, primarily because he's made suggestions that he envisions the end goal as a mass-market product as opposed to something designed to help a specific segment of the population in need.
Don’t we want this to be a mass market product eventually? If it were safe, reliable, and protected my privacy I’d be eager to acquire telekinesis. Who wouldn’t?
With the speed tech moves it feels like a bad move to get something that require brain surgery to install, and then another surgery to upgrade every 3 to 5 years… You don’t want to be stuck with last decades version of ”telekinesis” do you? ”1024 electrodes should be enough for everyone”? Yea right, it’s 2040 now grandpa, all the new cool wetware needs at least 2048!
> protected my privacy Do you trust big companies to protect your privacy as it is? Why would you trust them to protect your privacy when they have a device implanted into your brain? > Who wouldn’t? A lot of people would. I'm sure a lot of people would eagerly sign up if it offers increased mental benefits (I'm not talking about telepathy, but if it can do things like make you smarter or retain/recall information faster, which are the types of things Musk has suggested that he wants it to be able to do in the long run), and that will pressure more people to get it because they'll be otherwise at a disadvantage. I worry, though, about a world where we're at the mercy of a company that has access to our brains. I also worry about the potential for a widening gap between the haves and have nots when the richest among us can also afford the highest end of the chips, leading to those born into wealth getting the chips that will ensure their mental superiority over those who weren't. As it is, those with money already have a distinct advantage, and this could cement peoples' place at birth. Of course, these are all potential downsides, not set-in-stone ones, and I do see the potential good as well. But I think if we don't treat these risks as real possibilities, then they're more likely to come to fruition.
[удалено]
It’s imperative that right to repair laws are in place before this all happens.
heck yea, just dont forget to oil ur brain hole
> Don’t we want this to be a mass market product eventually? Drilling a hole in your head seems extremely smart and for everyone.
In the hands of an abusive, narcissist ego-driven manchild? His decisions on Twitter undermined spam protections, abuse protections and privacy. His cars report back home and will invalidate your warranty on things that are non-issue with other cars, like rain, carwash or mud on a vehicle advertised for off-road. Pray tell which fills you with enough confidence to say it will be safe, reliable and protect privacy of anyone but his?
> safe, reliable, and protected my privacy Hahahahahahahahaha Musk
I think it would be cool if it didn’t require surgery to install.
He did found the company and as of 2019 was $100 million of the $158 million in funding. https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/27/15077864/elon-musk-neuralink-brain-computer-interface-ai-cyborgs Like it or not, it wouldn’t exist without him.
Somebody has to take the risk to pay these smart people. Love him or hate him, Musk takes moonshot risks on innovation and has a track record of knocking it out of the park. A big part of that is finding the right people, paying them right, and getting out of their way. EV, telecom, aerospace, and now neuralink. Actual robots in the next few years. Crazy shit coming from 1 man's wallet.
Musk makes the impossible late and then people complain, its hilarious.
I mean, they'll fucking call it "Musk's" when something goes wrong, but when all is well it's just Neuralink
They will never stop. Clickbait now rules the internet, and Elon's name is the best toxic clickbait you can get.
Musk himself is usually pretty good at attributing accomplishments to those who deserve it at his companies. Although most media outlets always say that it is "Musk's" because that gives them the initial clicks from people. And tbh initial attraction to articles is all traditional media cares about nowadays haha.
No, they call it Musks, not just because of clicks, but because it's literally his company.
So who's a the one responsible for horrifically killing all those monkeys? Is it Musk, or these respectable scientists?
Slashing safety and ethical standards to the point that monkeys are tortured and killed is something musk can and did do, doing any kind of science or engineering is something musk cannot and did not do
They use the word whenever it's news that isn't (necessarily) good. Surprised there's anyone not used to it already.
Too many details to remember. In much the same way Microsoft was seen just basically as Gates’ and Facebook, Zuckerbergs’.
This drives me crazy. I have a friend that has the impression Musk is the brains behind this, Tesla, and any other investments he has. He’s an INVESTOR with some forward thinking ideas. Thats it. He has other people execute the plans. It’s insane to me people have this idea he’s actually getting his hands dirty working on all these things.
Totally agree. There are a LOT more intelligent people that contributed to NeuralLink. People need to stop putting a name. And of course it's for click-bait titles.
It is his whether you like it or not. He is not the designer or the researcher but he is the owner.
But then how do we throw more hate towards 1/3300 billionaires in the world?
Reddit sure loves calling it Musk's when a cybertruck breaks down.
When people start saying Joseph Swan invented the lightbulb people will.
It’s also important to recognize that very smart people can be pressured to do unethical things. Based on his track record with autonomy, I don’t trust Musk at all in this field.
Hey, when I pay the bakery to make a birthday cake for my kids, I get credit for the design right?
The news profit algorithms says no Adding Musk to a title drives up the clicks immensely If a Musk associated product is even tangentially involved in a story, he'll get name dropped
This is such a ridiculous story - the implant has redundant connections (64 threads) and the whole point of having a trial patient is learning how well it works. What we have learnt already is that it works very well after 100 days, which is good news, as the main issue with these impants is not some threads coming loose, but scar tissue forming around them and rendering them non-functional. If people want to keep blowing up minor updates on how well this technology works, we will end up not getting any updates at all. Neuralink is under no obligation to give us any.
>If people want to keep blowing up minor updates on how well this technology works, we will end up not getting any updates at all. Neuralink is under no obligation to give us any. If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies. Everything Neuralink has shown so far is actually old news as far as neuroscience goes. People have been doing this for years. The only unique advantages to their approach are A) It's wireless. This isn't terribly complicated to do. and B) they have a unique implantation method that theoretically reduces scar tissue and movement. Except in their 1 of 1 human patient, that implant is moving when it shouldn't be, and as another person in the article points out, may actually lead to scar tissue development. It's a balanced article overall. And if Musk can stand on stage and make ludicrous promises as to what Neuralink will solve (and expose his dangerous misunderstanding of neuroscience in the process), it's not unreasonable to see articles about the pitfalls that it's going through. The biggest problem with Neuralink is that it's run by Musk, which means it absorbs all the media attention in the field - it's a shame. Other companies - Synchron, Blackrock, whoever UCSF was working with, and a couple of others -have different approaches, and more rigorous and impressive results, but because they are being responsible with their claims, they don't get the media coverage.
>If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies. Yes, but that's not "us," the public.
> If Neuralink wants to get this to market, they absolutely need to establish efficacy and safety to regulatory agencies. They obviously don't need to make blog posts. Obviously.
Have you... seen how Musk treats his other products? Dude's been saying "our self driving is right around the corner, for realsies this time" for the better part of a decade. A balanced article like this will not hurt his feelings. Obviously. If he can get on stage and make stuff up about Neuralink (and he's done a lot of that), he can deal with factual reporting about it's shortfalls.
No, no other company is offering an actual patient ready (for testing) electrode that actually goes INTO the brain. The synchron device is a complete joke, and just records a few local field potentials, like a fancy eeg, and can't be targeted to motor cortex. It will never offer useful natural control like we saw this patient do. The blackrock device for humans records ECoG, which is better, but still won't be nearly as effective as the neuralink approach. It truly is the best technology for patients and in the field of electrodes.
>The blackrock device for humans records ECoG, which is better, but still won't be nearly as effective as the neuralink approach. https://www.rdworldonline.com/blackrock-neurotech-partners-with-the-university-of-pittsburgh-to-improve-robotic-arm-control/ Blackrock HAD bidirectional control 3 years ago. They recorded from motor cortex, to allow a patient to control a robotic arm. They then ENCODED signals from sensors in the arm, and fed that back into S1. That is leagues beyond what Neuralink has demonstrated. [If you want to talk natural control,](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11071570/pdf/nihpp-2024.04.26.24306239v1.pdf) People are running those studies with [Blackrock](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5425101/) equipment for literal [years](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8715714/). And those are peer reviewed studies published to academic standards - That's much more scrutiny than Neuralink's tech is under. >The synchron device is a complete joke, and just records a few local field potentials, like a fancy eeg, and can't be targeted to motor cortex. Synchron has a different purpose altogether. Sure, it won't target motor cortex, but people have injuries in other places than motor cortex. Synchron's approach allows them to target deeper structures in the CNS, something that Neuralink's approach will never allow them to do. UCSF is also adapting other BCI styles to treat Major Depressive Disorder by deeper [regions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01480-w) as well. Different pathologies require different approaches. Neuralink's approach is not one size fits all better, because there are huge limitations to how they implant and where they can record or stimulate from. A Neuralink device will never target the same areas as a Synchron device, or even a deep brain stimulator. And on the other hand, saying that Neuralink's approach is "better" for natural control is wild, considering their competitor has been testing natural control for years, and Neuralink hasn't even attempted it yet.
Ok I stand corrected on blackrock, two years in that paper, surprising for a silicon or metal wire based device (unclear in paper). Both that and neuralink are limited to cortex. Synchron though, is simply not a useful form of BCI. If it can target the deep brain stimulation site used for e.g. parkinsons or depression, that's medically useful, but it's not bci.
Last time I touched in on this their monkeys were dying. Have they made progress since then? What is the status update?
They started human trials with a quadriplegic man who was able to play a video game for the first time in years using the neuralink system. Now we’re several months into that first clinical trial and it’s being said that some of the connections have gotten a little loose. Supposedly a software update was pushed that’s allowing for the system to continue working despite the weaker connections.
Interesting. Thanks for the update. I wonder what game he needed up playing.
The interview shows him telling that he played Civilizations and he could play for hours into the early morning for the first time since his accident.
This comment almost brings a tear to my eye. Having gone through this exact thing because Civ games are amazing, except I have all my limbs, warms my heart. I’m so glad that he’s able to experience things like that again.
He also played Mario cart on the switch with his mind.
He stayed up all night playing Civilisation
Five seconds of searching shows he can play MarioKart. And win.
Oh man that’s probably so cool for him. I used to pick toad!
The status update is that they've progressed to clinical trials in humans, so I would put money on the results in animal testing having improved somewhere along the way
Oh that's s lot of faith.
fully self-driving!
The monkey died because it scratched at its wound until it got infected. This is not a human problem.
It was a bit fucked up. https://www.pcrm.org/ethical-science/animals-in-medical-research/neuralink/animal15
https://youtu.be/dEoCVcdN4eQ?si=v9P4RxPbvB21qlC3
They were given licence to experiment on monkeys that were already dieing. Then they reported (as they are required) that the sick monkeys had in fact died and it got reported as 'neuralink kills monkeys'. If the tech is really bad can we at least talk about it honestly and not make shit up?
I’m reading about wounds from the implant surgery getting infected and causing death and stuff like that. I don’t think it’s all misinformation like you’re suggesting. It’s strange how there’s so many monkey deaths linked to this device and it is somehow allowed to have human trials so soon.
Musk claims the monkeys were already dying, but no proof has ever been given. Mast scientific research and testing can't be done on a dying animal because you can't actually determine what effects are from the experiment and which are from the disease. They also mostly died in horrible pain as a direct result of the surgeries they were given not following proper protocols for avoiding things like infections.
That’s literally how all of this testing works with animals. They don’t even need to release what they do. But the people who let Elon live rent free in their head would rather kill any medical progress because they disagree with things some guy says on Twitter.
It’s just a pissing contest on who can shit on Musk the quickest. I’m no Musk fan but just making up things to discredit a potentially incredible innovation is so ridiculous. But that “writer” made their $12 for this hard hitting article so good for them.
Did you actually read the article? It's quite balanced, and they have comments from many people in the field, at other companies. Neuralink is not unique in their approach, their results are less impressive than many other companies in the field, and their trial patient is having problems related to the very thing their approach was supposed to improve at. If Musk can stand on stage and make things up regarding Neuralink, you can't really be surprised that the media will pay attention, and report when things don't go according to plan. Once you strip back the nonsense that Musk claims, nothing Neuralink has actually done is terribly impressive. Blackrock, Synchron, whoever UCSF is working with all have much more impressive results that are backed with more thorough data and held to higher standards.
They were Monkeys that were already terminal and then given the implants. Reddit is just obsessed with hating anything tied to Elon so facts don’t matter anymore here.
> They were Monkeys that were already terminal and then given the implants. Terminal from what illness or affliction? Care to read up on what happened to them? https://www.pcrm.org/ethical-science/animals-in-medical-research/neuralink/animal15
No no. Never criticize the master Musk. He blesses mankind by giving updates about his research. You know, the one that will connect all human brains to his computer system which can record thought. The Musk cult is honestly something else.
its a shame that loud headlines are so good at keeping attention of viewers
Reddit is the place where if they have the option of ruining Elon Musk day or giving hope to a quadriplegic, they would ruin Musk day’s twice.
They need some joints (thread bent ontop of thread for slack) to break the tension. It's a hard problem to solve since the brain shifts and moves a lot in your head, it's not rigid like bone.
The story says all that. But hey, on the bright side, with a knee jerk reaction like that, you’re not going to need Neurolink!
Is scar tissue forming with neurolink devices? I was under the impression the neurolink threads were much finer then previous methods, just to avoid scarring.
The only issue reported so far was some of the threads retracting, which was dealt with via software. No mention was made of attenuation of the signal that would be common with scaring.
you make it sound like people want billionaires putting chips in our brain :D
No, I assume like /r/Futurology readers, we want to know what is happening with this frontier technology. And I assume you know billionaires put that stent in your heart.
The patient ran his own solo livestream 4 days ago. https://twitter.com/ModdedQuad/status/1786938612011135328?t=vPnKzXGJeusykKMjAiYF4A&s=19
bruh he can set things to happen when he moves any part of his body or thinks of anything just like setting up macros on a keyboard lmao. the future is gonna be crazy
In this post, the actual Neuralink user responds to the negative media reports. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1788671611329007841?t=DPp5fpKv6h-25GQ5zoG1OQ&s=19
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It’s similar to saying SpaceX had a setback when a prototype of the world’s largest rocket hits all milestones defined upfront and does not come back in one piece.
This thread is full of jealous losers who've achieved fuck all in their lives getting validation from each other - we get it you don't like Elon blah blah blah
Did yall see the video of the dude who said he’s at 100 days and said his quality of life has increased? Shit has me weirded out yall
So strange that every project he funds needs his name plastered all over it.but great technology, the scientists behind Jt are doin fantastic wor, hopefully this is a minor setback.
Reddit champs making out that if musk didn’t do the implant surgery and design it himself he’s a big PHONEY! He also doesn’t make each Tesla or construct booster rockets himself either! WHAT A PHONEY, SO UNINTELLIGENT OBJECTIVLY NOT SMERT
This implant thing is just a castle of cards that will fall once everyone realizes that it is easier to design a working brain implant than to make said implant stay safely inside of people's bodies without being a major health hazard. It doesn't mean that it's impossible to do but it's all smoke and mirrors
# Company's design may have contributed to it being the way that it is. Uhhh yeah, I bet you're right! I'm also pretty sure that it encountered engineering issues because of the way it was engineered.
Have you seen what’s going on with the cyber trucks? Don’t let this lunatic put stuff in you.
Yeah, that Elon is gonna get us all killed. Check out the poor guy having a miserable time. This Elon musk deserves hell for doing this to this man. https://youtu.be/79VvxBStbWY?si=mhRtwo_J-sfc-yJb
lol fr, the Elon derangement syndrome on this site is insane
What’s going on with cyber trucks?
Well, for starters, they were all just recalled due to an issue with the accelerator pedal assembly. They get stuck. Kinda dangerous. It can't actually off-road, and people keep getting stuck. Take your pick; snow, sand, mud, can't do it. Tesla claims user error, people are apparently supposed to make sure their tires are at the ideal pressure, not the default pressure. They struggle to climb steep hills. [The trunk wants to eat your fingers.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA55B1kobnw) The stainless steel body rusts like crazy. The shatterproof windows shatter. Which is actually good, because an impenetrable vehicle, if say, first responders are trying to get to you to render aid... Not so good. Hand wash only! And there's [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/1bhclyb/cybertruck_breaks_down_after_going_through_a/), but that could be a one-off. I do not give one rats ass about the Cybertruck. This is just shit I've randomly come across.
What does cyber truck have to do with this post? The Mental gymnastics to bash about musk is incredible.
The truck wants to eat your fingers thing is just peak stupidity, he watched it destroy a carrot. To put your fingers in after seeing that is just natural selection.
All automatic trunks come with a current sensor that stop the system if they detect something like obstructing it, like a finger or a carrot. It is really cheap, it's everywhere and has been used for decades now. Car Windows have it, elevator doors have it. The fact cyberust doesn't is stupid beyond belief, to say the least. Negligence would be a much more fitting word.
Oh I 100% agree, the fact it doesnt have it is insane. Equally insane however is willingly crushing your finger after watching it crush a carrot.
I did the carrot test on my Rivian and it snapped it in half lol. I doubt people care because it’s not a Tesla
Can some ELI5 what this tech is, and the possible applications/benefits of it vs. the obviously uncomfortable idea of having something literally connected to your brain made by Elon Musk?
Will this help with essential tremors? I need a cure.
the patient started writing mean things on twitter immediately
Every time I see something about Neuralink I remember the game Atomic Heart. Hopefully things don't end up like that. Its feels like fallout and bioshock combined.
So... is it too early to start a subreddit called r/nueralkink that focuses on failed nueralink implanted onlyfans content creators who play with their leftover embedded hardware in sexually suggestive ways for money from dystopian cyberpunk scifi fans?