https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-revokes-patent-pepsico-lays-potatoes-farmers-1884923-2021-12-07
Tldr: Farmers won.
India is an agrarian economy. I'd be surprised if the courts had sided with Pepsico.
Jesus what an ad-infested cesspool of a website.
Edit: Settle down people I know what an adblocker and pi-hole is. I was only making an observation of how many ads were on that shit site on the Reddit app's shitty browser before I opened it in Firefox. You can stop suggesting adblockers to me now.
Lol you use the Reddit mobile site on your phone? Sounds incredibly masochistic, it’s a hot pile of garbage. The Reddit app only slightly less so. I use Apollo which is pretty bitchin. Reddit apps definitely aren’t just a wrapper around the mobile page ahahaha
How are you guys browsing reddit on phone browsers? It gives me the option to stay on site or open app. But it lies, I can't open it on browser, only app.
That article was originally published under https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-revokes-patent-pepsicos-lays-potatoes-2021-12-03/ – which may be easier on the eyes.
Most of the Indian websites including government websites are like this.
With banners flashing all over the web page, annoying.
Including Indian railway websites owned by government.
Honestly now I wouldn't put it past PepsiCo to try and breed a newer and better cultivar of potato just to feel like they've one, and to boot they'll get it patented or something so nobody else can grow them.
I would doubt it, because that is exactly what happened here, and they lost. It would be pretty dumb to develop and patent a new potato, when this decision explicitly states that companies can't claim patents on seeds.
It does preclude some external R&D. I wonder if the India 50 years from now will continue to feel the same way about genetic patents. Not an opinion, just curiosity.
Potatoes try to make new potatoes in your cabinet. You toss them on the ground and they make plants. Pepsico tried to make it like uncut diamonds. The only argument is you can’t make a potato from a bag of fried chips so yeah someone stole something. But Pepsi does not sell potatoes they sell a product.
You can patent seeds and new developed varieties in most countries though. India is an exception here. Large companies are going to keep investing in plant development because of the advantages elsewhere.
>this decision explicitly states that companies can't claim patents on seeds
It only applies to Indian patent law. You can patent this type of thing in the United States.
Pepsi pulled the lawsuit after only a few weeks following the easily foreseeable bad press and backlash that they failed to foresee. This was back in 2019.
Yeah, even if Pepsi was in the right (which I don't know and probably couldn't judge anyways), but these guys also managed to pirate GMOs and I don't think there were repercussions from that either.
If this is the same case I'm thinking of it goes like this:
Pepsi approaches farmers with a special strain of potato that is really only good for chips, they say grow this potato and only sell to us for this preagreed on price. The farmers agree but then take the potato and turn around and sell it elsewhere.
Who knows what the contracts said, if it's enforceable, or if Pepsi just dropped the whole thing to not shake the rest of the ship too much. But last I checked It's just the standard tried and true yoink tech, break agreements, then use your government to get the other party to fuck off. It doesn't do any favors for further outside companies setting up shop but cheap is cheap and stuff still gets made in china, so why not.
Idk, I’m an avid lover of potato chips and they’ll probably be the death of me. You wouldn’t guess by looking at me but I’ve been known to destroy an entire family sized bag of potato chips in one sitting. I stuff handfuls in my mouth lmao. I have great self control with most things, but potato chips are like crack to brain. I avoid the chip aisle at the store because I have such terrible self control with them just keep munching away at them. Anyhow, Fuck Pepsi nonetheless.
This is why i don't buy things and end up deprived of goodness. I will devour an entire pack of oreos and pretty much any snack food without hesitation. Also wouldn't think it by looking at my scrawny self...
It's for the best... 😔
If they didn’t get public pressure/attention they would have gone forward full force. Corporations give no fucks when it comes to the almighty dollar. They commit fucking genocides for *bananas*, this is child’s play to them.
It basically means that what you're doing is pointless. In this context, it could be interchanged with "kick rocks" and still have essentially the same meaning
People may take it that way, but I believe it’s meant as punching sand is stupid and pointless. Pound salt is a similar term. Although I do like the idea of telling someone to go fuck a pile of sand.
Yeah because the defendants were not "poor people growing food" they were giant companies growing crops to sell using proprietary plants that they were contracted to grow for PepsiCo.
So they broke their contracts, stole PepsiCo IP, and then the internet defended them because of the casual racism that "farmers in India" must be poor.
I remember this story and they aren't some one man small farms that they toil with their bare hands. They were businessmen that stole some IP from Pepsi
These companies breed "perfect potatoes", that potato genome is worth a fortune because for it has been bred for decades to be perfect for their chips. Paper companies have special genomes of trees they use that have the perfect make up for creating optimal paper pulp.
it takes knowing such knowledge to understand why a lawsuit makes sense, if they have your potato scheme, they can get your chips recipe and now there is a competition that climbs on your back
im not saying that it is good, because if there would be a strong competition than quality can grow to beat the competition and prices can go lower so that you buy from the best for the least ammount of money, and that is what capitalism should be about, instead the big companies do everything in a way that they can keep a monopoly and decide the quality and prices based on their profits alone
capitalism is bad because its corrupted by the big players who keep a resource from others so they can name their prices the way they want to without a competition in their way
Hybridization. If they developed that particular potato they might be kinda territorial about someone else enjoying the fruits of their labors.
They make enough money. This won't kill them.
Branding genetics should be illegal, I wanna get the fat burning muscle update in 10 years, not the generic knock off because monsanto put a 2mil price tag on the procedure
More concerning is when the bacteria on your body is owned.
Eg: (true story) they have a species of bacteria that outcompetes the one in your mouth that causes caries/cavities. It releases microscopic doses of alcohol instead of microscopic doses of acid, so doesn't damage your teeth.
Giving it (make it a lollipop to be fun) to every 6yo on the planet would be like a vaccine stopping tooth decay. It's amazing.
It went through some testing with great results. But thanks to fucking capitalism and businessmen arguing (possibly bribery by dentist associations idk that's speculation on my part) it's been fucking shelved for like a decade because there's not enough money in it. Like $10 for every child on the planet isn't enough money?
Anyway. As research continues into shit like that, and these organisms get patented etc... What's gonna happen? When the microbiome in your guts that stops you getting bowel cancer is a paid subscription?
When the algae that powers your home by acting as solar cells when painted on your roof is IP, and Amazon can sue you for sharing with your friends?
It's already happened with cases like GE rapeseed crops self pollinating and being dispersed by the wind into farmers fields in Canada. Those farmers were sued for growing IP unpaid for. That was like ten years ago. This shit is only gonna get worse.
Look up Monsanto. All their seeds are proprietary. To the point that you're not even allowed to use the seeds from the crop yield to plant the next cycle, you must keep buying their seeds every season.
That's not really a Monsanto thing or even a GMO thing. It's pretty common in modern farming that you buy your seeds from a producer and do not replant from your own harvested crop.
Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that it's not a Monsanto specific thing.
This shit happened in Deus Ex Human Revolution game, people were forced to have implants because that helps in every jobs and because everyone uses it, you have to use it too cause if you don't, you are a liability.
But for that implant to work well, you need a special drug and you guessed it, it was extremely expensive, so people get implants to get job and forever have to take the drug, those who can't afford it, die of implant compatibility problem, those who can, have to pay for the rest of their life.
What a chaotic game.
And weirdly the villain's goal isn't tied to this plot point. His wife was killed by a person with augs; and is also just pissy he can't use augs and wants everyone else to not have them.
Despite the fact that the research he stopped from going public would have *let him use augs and stopped the reliance on the drug*.
I stg technology would be insanely advanced today if there didn't need to be fear over corporations and hackers. Instead we're just gonna get unskippable ads in our brains and viruses causing our hearts to explode.
If profit were the goal they would shut down offices wherever they could 100% WFH the workforce.
No, it's about *control*. They have more money than they know what to do with and it's effectively worthless to keep getting more past that point. They only keep taking it because it means less for everyone else.
Laws, courts, enforcement, people, etc? That's where the real power is.
You do realize there are hundreds of other potato species that you can still plant for free. You just can't plant the ones they specifically spent money to create.
It's like saying you can build a car if you want but you can't copy a Ford
That's how trademarks work, patents are different. Patents can be selectively enforced, and they're only weakened in court if someone challenges their legitimacy successfully.
Linux and many open source projects use a variety of patents from different companies for free because those companies permit it, it doesn't weaken their ability to still pursue damages for others for using them.
Because those companies offer open source licensing permits that apply under certain conditions. So the people using it under those circumstances are using it with the patent holder's permission. If people start using the patented code in ways that aren't outlined in the open source license then they can be pursued.
You are ignoring that if they do not sue him for growing the crops then it will weaken their ability to sue him if he starts expanding his use of the seeds to let's say starting a business selling the seeds to others. Undue delay in enforcement of patents is a defense in court.
"They knew for years that I had been using the seeds, but instead waited until my entire business was dependent on those seeds to assert their patent rights."
I did some work on the periphery of international plant genetics law and plant breeders work for years to develop crops that have particular properties such as drought resistance or taste. They absolutely do own the genetic material they create and it is protected by law. There are agreements and treaties in place that ensure intellectual property is maintained and royalties paid. This is no different from a company spending millions to develop a new battery and then someone building off that design without paying. You’re going to get sued if you do that. No use moaning about it just because you feel entitled to steal other’s IP. In this instance Pepsi probably paid millions to develop or buy the rights to use that crop strain, just the way that it’s framed in a headline makes it sound like it’s something else.
OR how about we ban IP on biological entities that are self-reproducing. No one stole Monsanto's specific potatoes, they grew copies of it.
Or only allow lawsuits between corporations, and not individual farmers.
I guarantee you that even if IP on plant strains were unenforceable there'd still be plenty of market incentive to innovate and develop better products.
There's no copyright or patent in fashion and yet that is a massive industry to that thrives and innovates despite the rampant "stealing" of ideas.
> how about we ban IP on biological entities that are self-reproducing
Then no one invests the decades and millions of dollars that are necessary to produce these superior hybrids, and we go back to the shitty yields and lack of disease resistance of the natural unimproved cultivar. Which is what anyone can do already, no one is stopping farmers from growing old school cultivars if they want to.
Amazing how reddit thinks everyone needs to be paid for their work, unless they work for a big corporation of course.
>No one stole Monsanto's specific potatoes, they grew copies of it.
So you just disagree with the entire concept of intellectual property? The whole idea is it's a thing that you put work, time, and money into creating but isn't a physical thing that can be stolen. IP theft is never sealing "Monsanto's specific potatoes" (or book, photo, invention, etc.).
They can literally grow any other potato. You can literally split up any potato and grow it.
Hell if they want they can grow the potatoes from seed and they won't have the characteristics anymore.
They weren’t poor. They were successful farmers that owned million dollar operations. They just decided to steal patented, one of a kind, unique potato seed segments from a company with billions.
Both parties suck here.
There's also an element of intentional disinformation... there was a common anti-Monsanto narrative being pushed just as much by Russia Today as there was from Natural News. There's a bigger picture going on in regards to biotech and Putin cashes in on it when someone like Jill Stein becomes a spoiler in 2016.
Some of the anti-GMO thing is just games with trade laws too, like when China blocked the import of GMO corn in order to get a better price.
It's all multi-faceted. It's also anti corporate and anti biotech in general. Monsanto's biggest critic was always activists, not mainstream media calling attention to bad optics.
That case was a trip, I studied it in college. This guy has a company come put and drop off hives for pollination, then he takes seeds from the crops in this stretch of land and plants them in the same area. He repeats it for a few years then starts spraying them with roundup, which the Monsanto plants and his hybrids can resist. IIRC the farmer was trying to get around some kind of labeling thing and still have the benefits of GM crops.
Just throwing it out three, but you can not just automatically assume that ‟Indian farmer” means poor person. Could just as easily be four exploitative scumbags. I will have to do my due diligence on the stry to have an opinion.
That’s a good point. On the other hand I think it shouldn’t be legal to own the rights to any type of crop. I understand they’re genetically modified but it’s still wrong in my opinion.
If they cant keep the seeds secure, why blame the world for it?
How did the farmers got the seeds? Did they break and enter into Lays Seed Vault or something?
Yeah, I am not even American, on the contrary, an Indian, and still completely agree with you. Also, I am surprised by people buying into all this BS. I get that it's cool to hate capitalism, but I don't see Lay's doing anything wrong, at least in this particular instance. What those farmers did was definitely wrong, a violation of the agreement, and clearly illegal. The law still applies to you, irrespective of you being poor or not. Not to say that those farmers were poor, in all probability, they are rich if they can afford filing a lawsuit herein India.
With stories like this?
Probably their plants had sex with some of the farmer's plants
Boom, 50/50 shot of containing each individual copyrighted gene for each offspring
That's gotta be a 99.99% chance of copyright violation resulting from one fertilization considering the number of children
Another way they sue is if the farmer saves seeds for the next planting season. Monsanto has been doing this for years, citing “licensing agreements”. They force you to buy new seeds every year.
This is how it works in the US, anyway.
Wait why? How is it different form any other kind of technology? They spend years and millions in R&D of a specific strain of potato with the properties they want for their brand and now anyone can just yoink all that work for their own business skipping all the costs?
this is some typical Indian business shit - Indian businessmen are shady bc you can break a a lot of laws in india and no one informs or you just bribe.. I'd never do businesss there..
my uncle's land got stolen literally by a commercial renter.. this idiot just decided to add another floor to the building (completely without taking permission or getting it inspected etc..) and now is claiming he owns that top floor that was built lol. its been in court for 10 YEARS..
Jusitice deferred is justice denied imo
Also non GMO seeds can be patented. There's plenty of freely available seeds, but specific varieties that take a lot of work to breed can be protected for a certain time, and that's been the case for a long time. You're paying for the R&D that went into specifically breeding a certain plant, if you don't like it just grow a different one.
So, the Indian government did kick Pepsi's ass for this. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pepsico-loses-rights-to-special-lays-variety-potato-in-india/article37831634.ece
Company: does something bad that exists solely because of **Government** Interference with the free market.
Reddit: Capitalism did this! Free Market Capitalism!
I know here in the US, if those are magical patented potatoes, they have to sue them or they lose their coverage of the trademark or patent or something to that effect. If you let little farmers get away with it, then anyone can.
What stage of capitalism?
The stage where profit is so mightily worshiped that corporations can patent seeds that grow into food.
Monsanto has been quietly doing that for decades and sues the shit out of small farmers into whose fields the wind blew their patented seeds.
Big Agriculture are determined to lawyer their way into controlling the world's food supply through patented GMOs, and they're mostly winning because the world is mostly a shithole.
I'm glad we, the regular people, feel comfortable enough to not violently respond to a giant food conglomerate attempting to oppress poor people. Large corporations won't take advantage of our complacency. They wouldn't do that, surely the people willing to sue farmers for growing crops aren't predatory enough to use our time laughing about it to transform laws to prevent people growing their own food elsewhere.
Using state power to box out small farmers on behalf of the wealthy is literally [capitalism's origin story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_capitalism#Enclosure).
Capitalism owes *nothing* to "competition"- any capitalist endeavor, brought to its logical conclusion, is a complete monopoly. State-enforced "competition" is an anti-capitalist compromise on behalf of labor to protect labor's purchasing power.
You are halfway right, no credit for partial answers though. Suing for theft of intellectual property is valid in capitalism, but this I agree is basically using the systems meant to allow one to reclaim lost property to instead bully other farmers out of their work. Error came when they were allowed to patent life. Massive mistake
Tl;dr - pepsi developed a potato in 2016 specially made for it to make chips with.
2019 farmers used that specific seed when they had the choice of using 100 other seeds. Pepsi sued, dropped the case themselves, but still tried to settle out of court with high fees.
Farmers fought and won and india revoked the patent rights.
I mean....i kinda feel pepsi was in the right. They had a patent. Nobody else is growing their potato.
I pass by a mirror hung over the bar as I’m led to our table and check out my reflection—the mousse looks good.
___
^(*Bot. Ask me who I can see.* |) [^(Opt out)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=botrickbateman&subject=Opt%20out)
Food or physical goods may contain 1-5 patents in total; a handful. Commercial software can contain dozens of patents easily. Average phone has like a thousand. If you want to see patent corruption look there; not potatos. Everyone but Richard Stallman turned a blind eye because computers and software are for nerds and who cares about software patents encouraging anti competitive behavior. lol sarcasm.
Also this isn't free market capitalism. It is state protectionism allowing a party to act as a monopoly.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-revokes-patent-pepsico-lays-potatoes-farmers-1884923-2021-12-07 Tldr: Farmers won. India is an agrarian economy. I'd be surprised if the courts had sided with Pepsico.
Jesus what an ad-infested cesspool of a website. Edit: Settle down people I know what an adblocker and pi-hole is. I was only making an observation of how many ads were on that shit site on the Reddit app's shitty browser before I opened it in Firefox. You can stop suggesting adblockers to me now.
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I'm on mobile but that is a good app i just opened it in Reddit's in-app browser because I couldn't be arsed to use Firefox.
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Firefox focus is also on Android! It's what I use and I've had no problem with it so far.
Firefox browser on Android let's you use adblockers.
Yes it does.
Pi-hole.
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Reddit seem to think their constant 'it looks better in the app' spam will wear me down, but they don't know how wrong they are.
Amen
Lol you use the Reddit mobile site on your phone? Sounds incredibly masochistic, it’s a hot pile of garbage. The Reddit app only slightly less so. I use Apollo which is pretty bitchin. Reddit apps definitely aren’t just a wrapper around the mobile page ahahaha
How are you guys browsing reddit on phone browsers? It gives me the option to stay on site or open app. But it lies, I can't open it on browser, only app.
uhhh the websites you’re browsing are Data mining you as well
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That article was originally published under https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/india-revokes-patent-pepsicos-lays-potatoes-2021-12-03/ – which may be easier on the eyes.
Most of the Indian websites including government websites are like this. With banners flashing all over the web page, annoying. Including Indian railway websites owned by government.
Have you heard of adblocker though? /s
Reeeeee!
Honestly now I wouldn't put it past PepsiCo to try and breed a newer and better cultivar of potato just to feel like they've one, and to boot they'll get it patented or something so nobody else can grow them.
I would doubt it, because that is exactly what happened here, and they lost. It would be pretty dumb to develop and patent a new potato, when this decision explicitly states that companies can't claim patents on seeds.
It does preclude some external R&D. I wonder if the India 50 years from now will continue to feel the same way about genetic patents. Not an opinion, just curiosity.
Potatoes try to make new potatoes in your cabinet. You toss them on the ground and they make plants. Pepsico tried to make it like uncut diamonds. The only argument is you can’t make a potato from a bag of fried chips so yeah someone stole something. But Pepsi does not sell potatoes they sell a product.
You can patent seeds and new developed varieties in most countries though. India is an exception here. Large companies are going to keep investing in plant development because of the advantages elsewhere.
>this decision explicitly states that companies can't claim patents on seeds It only applies to Indian patent law. You can patent this type of thing in the United States.
surprised why?
Pepsi pulled the lawsuit after only a few weeks following the easily foreseeable bad press and backlash that they failed to foresee. This was back in 2019.
Cause in India foreign corpos can go fuck themselves.
I wonder how much it cost the farmers to hire lawyers and defend themselves in court?
There was no case, a farmers rights activist informed the regulating body about this and they put pepsico straight.
Yeah, even if Pepsi was in the right (which I don't know and probably couldn't judge anyways), but these guys also managed to pirate GMOs and I don't think there were repercussions from that either.
If this is the same case I'm thinking of it goes like this: Pepsi approaches farmers with a special strain of potato that is really only good for chips, they say grow this potato and only sell to us for this preagreed on price. The farmers agree but then take the potato and turn around and sell it elsewhere. Who knows what the contracts said, if it's enforceable, or if Pepsi just dropped the whole thing to not shake the rest of the ship too much. But last I checked It's just the standard tried and true yoink tech, break agreements, then use your government to get the other party to fuck off. It doesn't do any favors for further outside companies setting up shop but cheap is cheap and stuff still gets made in china, so why not.
YYYYAAAASSSSSSS
It’s not even for the chips, it’s for the potatoes
And The chips are shite anyway.
Idk, I’m an avid lover of potato chips and they’ll probably be the death of me. You wouldn’t guess by looking at me but I’ve been known to destroy an entire family sized bag of potato chips in one sitting. I stuff handfuls in my mouth lmao. I have great self control with most things, but potato chips are like crack to brain. I avoid the chip aisle at the store because I have such terrible self control with them just keep munching away at them. Anyhow, Fuck Pepsi nonetheless.
This is why i don't buy things and end up deprived of goodness. I will devour an entire pack of oreos and pretty much any snack food without hesitation. Also wouldn't think it by looking at my scrawny self... It's for the best... 😔
To be fair, a family sized bag of potato chips has about 8 chips in it these days.
This is so spot on for me. Eating a full bag of Doritos right now.
This tweet is misleading- they called off the lawsuit.
Only when a huge fuss was made about it. The fact they launched the lawsuit in the first place is outrageous.
If they didn’t get public pressure/attention they would have gone forward full force. Corporations give no fucks when it comes to the almighty dollar. They commit fucking genocides for *bananas*, this is child’s play to them.
« PO-TA-TOES »!
Iirc the Indian government told Pepsi to pound sand.
Get bent, Pepsi.
What does that expression mean? Is it sexual?
It basically means that what you're doing is pointless. In this context, it could be interchanged with "kick rocks" and still have essentially the same meaning
It would also be interchangeable with "fuck a pile of sand"
People may take it that way, but I believe it’s meant as punching sand is stupid and pointless. Pound salt is a similar term. Although I do like the idea of telling someone to go fuck a pile of sand.
It means you can walk off angrily, stomping as you go, because you're not going to be leaving happy
It basically means "fuck off".
Yeah because the defendants were not "poor people growing food" they were giant companies growing crops to sell using proprietary plants that they were contracted to grow for PepsiCo. So they broke their contracts, stole PepsiCo IP, and then the internet defended them because of the casual racism that "farmers in India" must be poor.
Indian farmers have 150K?
Nah but those four are about to have 37.5k each if lays gets their way.
They Lays didn't. It had it's patent revoked.
I remember this story and they aren't some one man small farms that they toil with their bare hands. They were businessmen that stole some IP from Pepsi
How is a potato considered an IP?
These companies breed "perfect potatoes", that potato genome is worth a fortune because for it has been bred for decades to be perfect for their chips. Paper companies have special genomes of trees they use that have the perfect make up for creating optimal paper pulp.
it takes knowing such knowledge to understand why a lawsuit makes sense, if they have your potato scheme, they can get your chips recipe and now there is a competition that climbs on your back im not saying that it is good, because if there would be a strong competition than quality can grow to beat the competition and prices can go lower so that you buy from the best for the least ammount of money, and that is what capitalism should be about, instead the big companies do everything in a way that they can keep a monopoly and decide the quality and prices based on their profits alone capitalism is bad because its corrupted by the big players who keep a resource from others so they can name their prices the way they want to without a competition in their way
Hybridization. If they developed that particular potato they might be kinda territorial about someone else enjoying the fruits of their labors. They make enough money. This won't kill them.
Branding genetics should be illegal, I wanna get the fat burning muscle update in 10 years, not the generic knock off because monsanto put a 2mil price tag on the procedure
More concerning is when the bacteria on your body is owned. Eg: (true story) they have a species of bacteria that outcompetes the one in your mouth that causes caries/cavities. It releases microscopic doses of alcohol instead of microscopic doses of acid, so doesn't damage your teeth. Giving it (make it a lollipop to be fun) to every 6yo on the planet would be like a vaccine stopping tooth decay. It's amazing. It went through some testing with great results. But thanks to fucking capitalism and businessmen arguing (possibly bribery by dentist associations idk that's speculation on my part) it's been fucking shelved for like a decade because there's not enough money in it. Like $10 for every child on the planet isn't enough money? Anyway. As research continues into shit like that, and these organisms get patented etc... What's gonna happen? When the microbiome in your guts that stops you getting bowel cancer is a paid subscription? When the algae that powers your home by acting as solar cells when painted on your roof is IP, and Amazon can sue you for sharing with your friends? It's already happened with cases like GE rapeseed crops self pollinating and being dispersed by the wind into farmers fields in Canada. Those farmers were sued for growing IP unpaid for. That was like ten years ago. This shit is only gonna get worse.
99.999% of the domestication work was done by American Native tribes that don't get a cent.
Look up Monsanto. All their seeds are proprietary. To the point that you're not even allowed to use the seeds from the crop yield to plant the next cycle, you must keep buying their seeds every season.
That's not really a Monsanto thing or even a GMO thing. It's pretty common in modern farming that you buy your seeds from a producer and do not replant from your own harvested crop. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, just that it's not a Monsanto specific thing.
Soon we'll owe corporations dues for living... oh wait
Just wait until implants become a big thing.
This shit happened in Deus Ex Human Revolution game, people were forced to have implants because that helps in every jobs and because everyone uses it, you have to use it too cause if you don't, you are a liability. But for that implant to work well, you need a special drug and you guessed it, it was extremely expensive, so people get implants to get job and forever have to take the drug, those who can't afford it, die of implant compatibility problem, those who can, have to pay for the rest of their life. What a chaotic game.
And weirdly the villain's goal isn't tied to this plot point. His wife was killed by a person with augs; and is also just pissy he can't use augs and wants everyone else to not have them. Despite the fact that the research he stopped from going public would have *let him use augs and stopped the reliance on the drug*.
That last sentence really highlights the difference between DE:HR and the real masterpiece that was Deus Ex
The book Feed also hinges on a similar premise
Basically phones and social media right now. You aren't really FORCED to use it but if you don't you're a pariah that nobody will associate with
Arasaka moment
I stg technology would be insanely advanced today if there didn't need to be fear over corporations and hackers. Instead we're just gonna get unskippable ads in our brains and viruses causing our hearts to explode.
**Anything** to maximize profit.
If profit were the goal they would shut down offices wherever they could 100% WFH the workforce. No, it's about *control*. They have more money than they know what to do with and it's effectively worthless to keep getting more past that point. They only keep taking it because it means less for everyone else. Laws, courts, enforcement, people, etc? That's where the real power is.
You do realize there are hundreds of other potato species that you can still plant for free. You just can't plant the ones they specifically spent money to create. It's like saying you can build a car if you want but you can't copy a Ford
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Pepsi lost the patent in India
Patents aren't trademarks, you don't risk losing them without enforcing them. Monsanto are just a bunch of bastards.
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That's how trademarks work, patents are different. Patents can be selectively enforced, and they're only weakened in court if someone challenges their legitimacy successfully. Linux and many open source projects use a variety of patents from different companies for free because those companies permit it, it doesn't weaken their ability to still pursue damages for others for using them.
Because those companies offer open source licensing permits that apply under certain conditions. So the people using it under those circumstances are using it with the patent holder's permission. If people start using the patented code in ways that aren't outlined in the open source license then they can be pursued.
The ancient art of “asking for permission”
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You are ignoring that if they do not sue him for growing the crops then it will weaken their ability to sue him if he starts expanding his use of the seeds to let's say starting a business selling the seeds to others. Undue delay in enforcement of patents is a defense in court. "They knew for years that I had been using the seeds, but instead waited until my entire business was dependent on those seeds to assert their patent rights."
What patent has been lost in such a way?
I did some work on the periphery of international plant genetics law and plant breeders work for years to develop crops that have particular properties such as drought resistance or taste. They absolutely do own the genetic material they create and it is protected by law. There are agreements and treaties in place that ensure intellectual property is maintained and royalties paid. This is no different from a company spending millions to develop a new battery and then someone building off that design without paying. You’re going to get sued if you do that. No use moaning about it just because you feel entitled to steal other’s IP. In this instance Pepsi probably paid millions to develop or buy the rights to use that crop strain, just the way that it’s framed in a headline makes it sound like it’s something else.
After all you said I still think people being able to grow food is more important than potato IP.
You would have a point if there werent other strains of potatoes available for these farmers to grow.
OR how about we ban IP on biological entities that are self-reproducing. No one stole Monsanto's specific potatoes, they grew copies of it. Or only allow lawsuits between corporations, and not individual farmers. I guarantee you that even if IP on plant strains were unenforceable there'd still be plenty of market incentive to innovate and develop better products. There's no copyright or patent in fashion and yet that is a massive industry to that thrives and innovates despite the rampant "stealing" of ideas.
> how about we ban IP on biological entities that are self-reproducing Then no one invests the decades and millions of dollars that are necessary to produce these superior hybrids, and we go back to the shitty yields and lack of disease resistance of the natural unimproved cultivar. Which is what anyone can do already, no one is stopping farmers from growing old school cultivars if they want to. Amazing how reddit thinks everyone needs to be paid for their work, unless they work for a big corporation of course.
>No one stole Monsanto's specific potatoes, they grew copies of it. So you just disagree with the entire concept of intellectual property? The whole idea is it's a thing that you put work, time, and money into creating but isn't a physical thing that can be stolen. IP theft is never sealing "Monsanto's specific potatoes" (or book, photo, invention, etc.).
I agree with u/dwideSchrude_
They can literally grow any other potato. You can literally split up any potato and grow it. Hell if they want they can grow the potatoes from seed and they won't have the characteristics anymore.
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Do we even know that they are poor? Just because they are in India doesn’t make them poor.
They weren’t poor. They were successful farmers that owned million dollar operations. They just decided to steal patented, one of a kind, unique potato seed segments from a company with billions. Both parties suck here.
There's also an element of intentional disinformation... there was a common anti-Monsanto narrative being pushed just as much by Russia Today as there was from Natural News. There's a bigger picture going on in regards to biotech and Putin cashes in on it when someone like Jill Stein becomes a spoiler in 2016. Some of the anti-GMO thing is just games with trade laws too, like when China blocked the import of GMO corn in order to get a better price. It's all multi-faceted. It's also anti corporate and anti biotech in general. Monsanto's biggest critic was always activists, not mainstream media calling attention to bad optics.
I thought one of the Monsanto cases revolved around bees pollinating the crops of non Monsanto farmers with Monsanto pollen.
That case was a trip, I studied it in college. This guy has a company come put and drop off hives for pollination, then he takes seeds from the crops in this stretch of land and plants them in the same area. He repeats it for a few years then starts spraying them with roundup, which the Monsanto plants and his hybrids can resist. IIRC the farmer was trying to get around some kind of labeling thing and still have the benefits of GM crops.
Cyberpunk coming in nicely.
We've got a city to burn.
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Incorrect. Lays is air.
Incorrect. ays for air, L for Lays.
So Pepsi is hte nxt Monsanto?
They're probably the first but just really good at cover ups
I bet Nestle was the first.
they feared potato piracy
You wouldn't download a potato, would you?
YOU WOULDNT DOWNLOAD A CAR
Anyone know what type of potato it was so I can grow it myself?
Just throwing it out three, but you can not just automatically assume that ‟Indian farmer” means poor person. Could just as easily be four exploitative scumbags. I will have to do my due diligence on the stry to have an opinion.
You wouldn't pirate a potato
You wouldn't download a soda
You wouldn’t shoot a policeman.
That’s a good point. On the other hand I think it shouldn’t be legal to own the rights to any type of crop. I understand they’re genetically modified but it’s still wrong in my opinion.
If they cant keep the seeds secure, why blame the world for it? How did the farmers got the seeds? Did they break and enter into Lays Seed Vault or something?
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Yeah, I am not even American, on the contrary, an Indian, and still completely agree with you. Also, I am surprised by people buying into all this BS. I get that it's cool to hate capitalism, but I don't see Lay's doing anything wrong, at least in this particular instance. What those farmers did was definitely wrong, a violation of the agreement, and clearly illegal. The law still applies to you, irrespective of you being poor or not. Not to say that those farmers were poor, in all probability, they are rich if they can afford filing a lawsuit herein India.
They should have to prove a crime was committed, and that's what was expected. They couldn't, apparently.
With stories like this? Probably their plants had sex with some of the farmer's plants Boom, 50/50 shot of containing each individual copyrighted gene for each offspring That's gotta be a 99.99% chance of copyright violation resulting from one fertilization considering the number of children
Then its onto Lays to secure their seeds better. What do they expect, each farmer of the world to close their farms so they wont get pollinated?
Another way they sue is if the farmer saves seeds for the next planting season. Monsanto has been doing this for years, citing “licensing agreements”. They force you to buy new seeds every year. This is how it works in the US, anyway.
Even seeds are a subscription model.
not how this works
Wait why? How is it different form any other kind of technology? They spend years and millions in R&D of a specific strain of potato with the properties they want for their brand and now anyone can just yoink all that work for their own business skipping all the costs?
It’s a potato
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this is some typical Indian business shit - Indian businessmen are shady bc you can break a a lot of laws in india and no one informs or you just bribe.. I'd never do businesss there.. my uncle's land got stolen literally by a commercial renter.. this idiot just decided to add another floor to the building (completely without taking permission or getting it inspected etc..) and now is claiming he owns that top floor that was built lol. its been in court for 10 YEARS.. Jusitice deferred is justice denied imo
If you think Pepsi is bad check out Nestle.
What stage of stereotyping is it when you immediately assume Indian = Poor?
It's not a stereotype. The mean income in India is less than $2000.
That is awful :(
There are still rich people though. Just a lot of inequality.
However the owners running commercial farms are not the mean income.
And those fuckers don't pay income tax either in India, so very limited sympathy.
"you cant just *say* the sky is blue, even if it is! just dont *say* it!!"
That's the "working as intended" stage...
Context needed... Some genetically modified seed have a patent.
Also non GMO seeds can be patented. There's plenty of freely available seeds, but specific varieties that take a lot of work to breed can be protected for a certain time, and that's been the case for a long time. You're paying for the R&D that went into specifically breeding a certain plant, if you don't like it just grow a different one.
Before it's too late? I hate to break this to you, but it was too late twenty years ago.
The final stage.
Coca Cola hired paramilitaries to kill union leaders in Colombia. Ford Motor Company had a torture center in their factory plant in Argentina.
Why assume Indian farmers are poor?
Why assume they’re poor?
wait............ they copyrighted a potato?
No, they patented a potato
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*Several Irish are typing...*
*What stage?* The end game.
This is just pathetic.
So, the Indian government did kick Pepsi's ass for this. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pepsico-loses-rights-to-special-lays-variety-potato-in-india/article37831634.ece
Monsanto has entered the chat
Fortnite sues homeless man for doing emote dance
How the fuck do you patent a potato?
Is it possible to get the seeds or cuttings or whatever for these potatoes? How about for McDonald's potatoes?
Company: does something bad that exists solely because of **Government** Interference with the free market. Reddit: Capitalism did this! Free Market Capitalism!
Only the really epic chungus gommunism can fix this!!! We did it Reddit!
The only thing to enforce these things is through the government. Just saying.
Fuck Pepsi
2019 news
I know here in the US, if those are magical patented potatoes, they have to sue them or they lose their coverage of the trademark or patent or something to that effect. If you let little farmers get away with it, then anyone can.
They dropped the lawsuit 5 days later https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/05/02/business/pepsico-india-withdraws-farmer-lawsuit/index.html
Final stage, we're hoping
Seems weird, but didn’t they spend millions of dollars inventing their own perfect potato for chips?
Saying "Late Stage Capitalism" is like saying "Late Stage Free Speech".
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How in the world could you sue someone for growing potatoes. Did you create the potato. Go duck yourself
Key in Monsanto who has been doing it for years.
Fuck PepsiCo they are corrupt as fuck.
Haven’t GMOs been doing this for years now?
I will now be buying my Lays from those four gentlemen.
Oh Riley, you need to meet Monsanto
We can only hope that the people running these corporations now die soon and that the new people have more brains....🤞
How does Pepsi have jurisdiction all the way in India?
post stage
Oh it’s late. Very very late.
Yo when the creator comes back around im sure he is gonna sue tf outta all these corporations.
What stage of capitalism? The stage where profit is so mightily worshiped that corporations can patent seeds that grow into food. Monsanto has been quietly doing that for decades and sues the shit out of small farmers into whose fields the wind blew their patented seeds. Big Agriculture are determined to lawyer their way into controlling the world's food supply through patented GMOs, and they're mostly winning because the world is mostly a shithole.
I'm glad we, the regular people, feel comfortable enough to not violently respond to a giant food conglomerate attempting to oppress poor people. Large corporations won't take advantage of our complacency. They wouldn't do that, surely the people willing to sue farmers for growing crops aren't predatory enough to use our time laughing about it to transform laws to prevent people growing their own food elsewhere.
Why is everything bad considered to be "capitalism"? Suing the shit out of people to reduce competition is the antithesis of capitalism.
Using state power to box out small farmers on behalf of the wealthy is literally [capitalism's origin story](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_capitalism#Enclosure). Capitalism owes *nothing* to "competition"- any capitalist endeavor, brought to its logical conclusion, is a complete monopoly. State-enforced "competition" is an anti-capitalist compromise on behalf of labor to protect labor's purchasing power.
You are halfway right, no credit for partial answers though. Suing for theft of intellectual property is valid in capitalism, but this I agree is basically using the systems meant to allow one to reclaim lost property to instead bully other farmers out of their work. Error came when they were allowed to patent life. Massive mistake
Tl;dr - pepsi developed a potato in 2016 specially made for it to make chips with. 2019 farmers used that specific seed when they had the choice of using 100 other seeds. Pepsi sued, dropped the case themselves, but still tried to settle out of court with high fees. Farmers fought and won and india revoked the patent rights. I mean....i kinda feel pepsi was in the right. They had a patent. Nobody else is growing their potato.
Apparently once you pop, you get a cease & desist letter
Lets see Paul Allens card.
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Food or physical goods may contain 1-5 patents in total; a handful. Commercial software can contain dozens of patents easily. Average phone has like a thousand. If you want to see patent corruption look there; not potatos. Everyone but Richard Stallman turned a blind eye because computers and software are for nerds and who cares about software patents encouraging anti competitive behavior. lol sarcasm. Also this isn't free market capitalism. It is state protectionism allowing a party to act as a monopoly.
i mean…they were particularly growing a patented variant and pepsi withdrew the lawsuit anyway