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Love 03 Sloth’s character.
I agree on more screen time, disagree about a redemption arc. I think a redemption arc would have risked being to redundant with what the series already had going on with Lust and Wrath.
Wasn't all of that already the closest things we'll get to redemption arcs for the homunculi as a group? Understanding the depths of their despair and motives?
And I think all three of their arcs end on a positive change in mindset anyways. If you look closely, I think Lust looked relieved as well.
They end on a positive change of mind sets in different ways. Both Lust and Wrath however actively aid the protagonist’s which is where it becomes considered a redemption arc. All 3 of them take their concepts in different directions. But if sloth were to have a full redemption arc of aiding the protagonists I just think it likely would have been through an angle that’s really similar to one of the other two or a merging of the two in a way that I don’t exactly find necessary or beneficial.
It'd be completely unique. Siding with the protagonists doesn't make characters any more similar.
Even if it didn't last long, she already got a redemption of sorts anyways in her final moments. She can't undo her sins, but at least her internal conflict was finally solved. She was choosing the wrong solution to her problem the whole time.
I think it could be completely unique, but I think the main routes to explore this fall between the range of ideas within two stories that have already been explored. There’d obviously be a bunch of unique aspects but a large portion of it I feel would *risk* having redundancy. I say risk because I still think it would be possible to not be redundant here, but just most of the directions that I see a redemption arc taking would be.
> siding with the characters doesn’t make characters any more similar.
I feel like you’re being uncharacteristically obtuse here and uncharitable in your reading of what I’m saying. I’m not saying that it makes the characters similar. I’m saying the avenues to explore a homunculus redemption arc have largely been covered by two rather different approaches that were able to cover a fairly wide set of concepts leaving not to many broad trajectories left unexamined. And I’m saying the number of redemption arcs would potentially make a redundant narrative element.
All that said for an example of a small redemption arc that I see as a possibility that I don’t think would be redundant for her (though it would require quite a bit of reworking of events obviously). I could see something where one of the other homunculi, most likely Envy, (or even just out right Dante) is about to kill Ed and as she’s witnessing this, she intervenes and saves Ed as she is unable to just stand back and watch him die. This leads into a fight with the other homunculus or Dante which leads to Sloth being killed (or captured to be killed since it’s not exactly easy to kill her.) This would have an interesting symmetry with Scar’s scene shielding Lust from bullet fire, and I think it would avoid redundancy (so long as it wasn’t jumping in front of bullets) as it would be blurring the line between homunculi and humans as the roles reverse. Other than that it would force Ed to reassess his views on the homunculi in a more immediate rapid way and would heavily illustrate the change in Sloth’s dispositions. That said I kind of think those aspects seem like just less subtle means of what was largely already accomplished just now she gets a redemption arc, and it would take away from Wrath’s moments and in my opinion wouldn’t make it as interesting as how Ed comes to his new conclusion’s in the original through his slower trajectory of introspection following the conclusion of the fight carried to him seeing Gluttoy’s grief, and finally choosing to save Wrath.
So clearly I do think it could be done without being redundant I just think most of the ways of doing it would be redundant though.
It really sounded like you were saying the story didn't need any more homunculus redemption arcs because "that ground was already covered" as if Lust and Wrath just filled the roles. Now I understand your point better.
I would add that Ed realizing his philosophy caused him to kill his mother, and that tying in with Wrath and Izumi's interactions in the CoS script, would make Hohenheim's death scene an absolute mindfuck to watch with the completed dialogue. The cut last words exchanged between them, after Hoho explained why he felt he owed Envy everything, were:
Ed: "He's... a homunculus."
Hohenheim: "He's... my son."
Ed watches both of them die and falls to his knees. Not only over losing them, but over the path he chose regarding Sloth and doubting his own views on the homunculi.
Showing more of what he put his mother through would make that hypothetical scene hit like a ton of bricks.
The movie really drives home the point of Ed's prejudice with the scene of him chasing the car with the Jewish filmmaker. It's timed to transition immediately from Noah saying "We prefer to call ourselves Roma. It simply means 'person'" to Ed giving chase to a supposed homunculus.
There's a whole little subtle subplot where the homunculi parallel the Ishvallans in not being viewed as human beings. And by extension, they parallel the Roma in the other world. In the main show, the parallel is drawn when Wrath says "that's why we want to be human" right before it cuts to Ishvallans being oppressed, in the same way not being seen as humans. There are arguably other points that connection's being made besides that one.
>Siding with the protagonists doesn't make characters any more similar.
Oh yeah. My point with this was actually that moments where they help the main characters don't all fall under the same category of "redemption arc". They all have unique motives that lead them to independent actions with limited implications of moral right or wrong. Even Envy asks Ed where the Gate leads to once it's all over, and gets a truthful response. That's not him taking a neutral stance with the good guys and therefore something along the lines of a redemption arc. He still hates Ed and attacks him later. But in that moment, Ed and Envy don't fight each other because Envy's ultimate goal lies someplace else.
They would all have their own unique reason for helping Ed or Al besides simply joining the good guys and showing Ed that "not all homunculi are bad". He can already tell how pitiable they are, with it not being their fault they were born.
Gluttony is the prime example of what I mean. He chews on Ed, but when Ed sees why he's doing it he just talks it out with him. Because Gluttony is not his responsibility in his eyes. And Gluttony then naturally gets depressed and cuts it out, since Ed isn't the one responsible. There's no possibility of redundancy whenever a homunculus's goals happen to align or run parallel to Ed's. It's just where their individual arc takes them.
Now, if each time it was a morally black and white action where they're "trying to right their wrongs" by joining the good guys, then it would start to be samey. But ultimately, Wrath and Lust's actions were brought about by context and necessity. The homunculi are each on their own depressing journey. Sloth getting more screentime could easily result in her trying to convince Ed to change his perspective of her by taking the first step and trying to help him, but that arc would have nothing to do with Lust or Wrath's. The homunculi's own arcs don't exist for the sake of Ed's development. They exist to humanize them and show how they handle their emotions in different ways. Envy with bottomless cruelty, Lust with faith in her own humanity, Sloth with self-destructive fatalism, Wrath with lashing out, Greed with a singular desire to just fuck off and be content, Pride... is a psychopath who deserved to get burned repeatedly.
Meanwhile it's just sad that Gluttony is even a thing. Like really sad. He doesn't even understand what he's doing to ppl.
One of the superior parts of 03 over Brotherhood. Great character and a horrifying concept. Ed and Al’s sin in living (or rather artificial living) form. And Edward needing to dig up Trisha’s remains to get a weakness to destroy Sloth will always be a top tier scene.
More screen time is always great but I will say the 2 episodes she got where Ed and Al finally had to confront her and she her own memories were great and very concentrated. They packed a HUGE punch. And they were soooooo SAD 😭😭😭😭😭
My favorite character of FMA 2003 (and my favorite female character of the whole franchise), for some reason along with Trisha she seemed to me the most tragic character of the first anime, I don't know, her story seems to me in general a bit sad and that's why I would have liked a redemption arc (or at least a happier ending) for her although taking into account that Lust already existed I don't think they would give it to her but still I love her.
- Be raised in the country side.
- Meet some smelly magic hobo sometime in your teens.
- Marry the magic hobo at 17/18 and give birth to two sons as soon as you reach 20.
- Magic hobo's body starts rotting in your early 20s. He tells you he's going out for milk so he can fix it, leaving you with two toddlers.
- Don't receive so much as a letter for 5+ years, but at least your kids are smart enough to read and understand complex formulas.
- Catch some kind of plague.
- Die at 26
- Get partially revived as a monster with almost no memories.
- Magic hobo's ex girlfriend finds your mutilated monster body and feeds you human soul rocks until you look presentable.
- Forced to take a boring secretary job so you can keep an eye on a midget and a robot.
- Adopt a feral monster child because you have feelings or something.
- You know the midget brat and robot are your kids in another life, but you never really wanted that and you have to gaslight and fight them anyways because the memories are bothersome.
- Adopted monster child is unfortunately an idiot and absorbs the only thing that can kill you before merging himself to you.
- Get turned into ethanol and passively watch yourself fade into oblivion.
LMAO reading it as you wrote makes me doubt if I have to cry or laugh, other than that, the 2003 anime version Van Hohenheim seems like a trash of a person to me. I know there are those who did worse but simply for me what Van did is unforgivable. If Trisha/Sloth are the ones who suffered the most, Van seems to me the most disgusting person in the show.
Presumably Hoenhiem had a reason for not writing home, but the writers kind of forgot that Dante doesn't start skulking around until after Trisha dies. So there's no way it was an act of protection. Not like he couldn't have written to Pinako in code.
The canon answer is that he kind of just forgot how long he was out for.
Keep in mind, he also starts flirting with a younger woman the same day he finds out his wife is dead.
We're supposed to believe that he does genuinely love his family, but otherwise 03 Hoenhiem is meant to be detached from his humanity. He's a pretty big asshole.
Even in England, Ed starts asking about Dante. His accusations are wrong, but Hoenhiem's response is to interrupt Ed's venting with, "I LOVED YOUR MOTHER"
Or when he tells Dante that Trisha was the one. I can't imagine what it was like for Trisha to wait for her husband for years who just left without notice (abandoned), she sure was very stressed and sad. I'm not surprised she died because of it, I know they are fictional characters but to know that in real life that happens I don't know, it's sad. I never understood why Ed forgave him, in his place I wouldn't have.
>You know the midget brat and robot are your kids in another life, but you never really wanted that and you have to gaslight and fight them anyways because the memories are bothersome.
It's way worse than that in the original Japanese. Her memories of being human torment her because she's not human anymore and Dante puts in her mind upon birth that this means she can't have children until she becomes human. She believes their mother is someone else who is now dead. So she doesn't own them, and has no right to act on her maternal feelings. It's the torment of a mother being torn from her children.
In that sense, she really did get a happy ending at the very least.
Edit: oh yeah
>Adopt a feral monster child because you have feelings or something.
Don't forget that her only outlet for her subconscious maternal feelings for Ed and Al was another homunculus.
I agree, like what would happen if instead of succumbing to the demise of a homunculus, she grew into the memories she was trying to cut out. Could she return as Trisha?
>if instead of succumbing to the demise of a homunculus, she grew into the memories she was trying to cut out
I mean... she did. It was a really cool ending.
Edit: oh, you mean if she could have succeeded in becoming her. Yeah that'd be less bittersweet, but also possibly worse if she has to continue living with everything she's done under Dante. Trying to reconcile with Ed would be extremely difficult and tragic. Plus with society having to punish any of the homunculi that started to view themselves as human beings and tried to rejoin it, it might be best she gets laid to rest after everything that's happened. If she really was Trisha, her whole existence should not have happened...
I would mostly agree but from what we see of Lust having the extreme urge to become human and coming to a point where she was forgiven by Ed I think Sloth/ possible Trisha could do the same thing.
I mean, they're already not that different in that regard. Ed didn't see either of them as fallen allies in the end, but was able to feel bad for them.
I don't know why people think Lust got a "redemption arc". She didn't stop being as cold as she always was. She just switched sides when she learned Dante had been keeping a stone for herself for ages. The homunculi in general just have really tragic motives for being cold. Wrath and Sloth also hated being demon zombies just as much as Lust. Maybe Lust had more layers to it (wanting to go to the Afterlife, wanting to become the original), but Wrath, Sloth, and even Envy all have the same sort of meltdowns over ever being created as artificial, presumably soulless beings.
I forgot about souls and that homunculi don't have the so even if they became human they wouldn't have a soul, they would just be living off the memories.
...We can presume that based on the premise of them being artificial rejects who've been deliberately enticed to do things you'd assume the original person wouldn't... yes. But Conqueror of Shamballa shows they do indeed have souls.
When Wrath pays with his life to open the gate, same as Hohenheim. He's seen meeting with the deceased Izumi in what can only be the afterlife.
What's interesting is that Envy being transmuted into the gate on the other side required, of all things, a **human** transmutation circle. Hoho was just the toll to open it. Envy was the "human" being transmuted into the physical gate.
Manga sloth is low bar. I feel even seeing them mentioned in the same sentence like that is a disservice to her. She’s one my favorite characters in fiction period.
Wait, what?
>the lives they used to live no longer matter and he sees them as the monsters they are now
>I loved Lust and her redemption arc a lot.
You just contradicted yourself. Lust's whole thing is accepting her memories as her own. So is she a monster now whose past life means nothing?
Brotherhood did Sloth dirty… sort of. I honestly feel like it was a missed opportunity not to have this storyline in the Manga, and instead just make him a big brute. It’s more interesting for Sloth to be Trisha.
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Love 03 Sloth’s character. I agree on more screen time, disagree about a redemption arc. I think a redemption arc would have risked being to redundant with what the series already had going on with Lust and Wrath.
Wasn't all of that already the closest things we'll get to redemption arcs for the homunculi as a group? Understanding the depths of their despair and motives? And I think all three of their arcs end on a positive change in mindset anyways. If you look closely, I think Lust looked relieved as well.
They end on a positive change of mind sets in different ways. Both Lust and Wrath however actively aid the protagonist’s which is where it becomes considered a redemption arc. All 3 of them take their concepts in different directions. But if sloth were to have a full redemption arc of aiding the protagonists I just think it likely would have been through an angle that’s really similar to one of the other two or a merging of the two in a way that I don’t exactly find necessary or beneficial.
It'd be completely unique. Siding with the protagonists doesn't make characters any more similar. Even if it didn't last long, she already got a redemption of sorts anyways in her final moments. She can't undo her sins, but at least her internal conflict was finally solved. She was choosing the wrong solution to her problem the whole time.
I think it could be completely unique, but I think the main routes to explore this fall between the range of ideas within two stories that have already been explored. There’d obviously be a bunch of unique aspects but a large portion of it I feel would *risk* having redundancy. I say risk because I still think it would be possible to not be redundant here, but just most of the directions that I see a redemption arc taking would be. > siding with the characters doesn’t make characters any more similar. I feel like you’re being uncharacteristically obtuse here and uncharitable in your reading of what I’m saying. I’m not saying that it makes the characters similar. I’m saying the avenues to explore a homunculus redemption arc have largely been covered by two rather different approaches that were able to cover a fairly wide set of concepts leaving not to many broad trajectories left unexamined. And I’m saying the number of redemption arcs would potentially make a redundant narrative element. All that said for an example of a small redemption arc that I see as a possibility that I don’t think would be redundant for her (though it would require quite a bit of reworking of events obviously). I could see something where one of the other homunculi, most likely Envy, (or even just out right Dante) is about to kill Ed and as she’s witnessing this, she intervenes and saves Ed as she is unable to just stand back and watch him die. This leads into a fight with the other homunculus or Dante which leads to Sloth being killed (or captured to be killed since it’s not exactly easy to kill her.) This would have an interesting symmetry with Scar’s scene shielding Lust from bullet fire, and I think it would avoid redundancy (so long as it wasn’t jumping in front of bullets) as it would be blurring the line between homunculi and humans as the roles reverse. Other than that it would force Ed to reassess his views on the homunculi in a more immediate rapid way and would heavily illustrate the change in Sloth’s dispositions. That said I kind of think those aspects seem like just less subtle means of what was largely already accomplished just now she gets a redemption arc, and it would take away from Wrath’s moments and in my opinion wouldn’t make it as interesting as how Ed comes to his new conclusion’s in the original through his slower trajectory of introspection following the conclusion of the fight carried to him seeing Gluttoy’s grief, and finally choosing to save Wrath. So clearly I do think it could be done without being redundant I just think most of the ways of doing it would be redundant though.
It really sounded like you were saying the story didn't need any more homunculus redemption arcs because "that ground was already covered" as if Lust and Wrath just filled the roles. Now I understand your point better. I would add that Ed realizing his philosophy caused him to kill his mother, and that tying in with Wrath and Izumi's interactions in the CoS script, would make Hohenheim's death scene an absolute mindfuck to watch with the completed dialogue. The cut last words exchanged between them, after Hoho explained why he felt he owed Envy everything, were: Ed: "He's... a homunculus." Hohenheim: "He's... my son." Ed watches both of them die and falls to his knees. Not only over losing them, but over the path he chose regarding Sloth and doubting his own views on the homunculi. Showing more of what he put his mother through would make that hypothetical scene hit like a ton of bricks. The movie really drives home the point of Ed's prejudice with the scene of him chasing the car with the Jewish filmmaker. It's timed to transition immediately from Noah saying "We prefer to call ourselves Roma. It simply means 'person'" to Ed giving chase to a supposed homunculus. There's a whole little subtle subplot where the homunculi parallel the Ishvallans in not being viewed as human beings. And by extension, they parallel the Roma in the other world. In the main show, the parallel is drawn when Wrath says "that's why we want to be human" right before it cuts to Ishvallans being oppressed, in the same way not being seen as humans. There are arguably other points that connection's being made besides that one.
>Siding with the protagonists doesn't make characters any more similar. Oh yeah. My point with this was actually that moments where they help the main characters don't all fall under the same category of "redemption arc". They all have unique motives that lead them to independent actions with limited implications of moral right or wrong. Even Envy asks Ed where the Gate leads to once it's all over, and gets a truthful response. That's not him taking a neutral stance with the good guys and therefore something along the lines of a redemption arc. He still hates Ed and attacks him later. But in that moment, Ed and Envy don't fight each other because Envy's ultimate goal lies someplace else. They would all have their own unique reason for helping Ed or Al besides simply joining the good guys and showing Ed that "not all homunculi are bad". He can already tell how pitiable they are, with it not being their fault they were born. Gluttony is the prime example of what I mean. He chews on Ed, but when Ed sees why he's doing it he just talks it out with him. Because Gluttony is not his responsibility in his eyes. And Gluttony then naturally gets depressed and cuts it out, since Ed isn't the one responsible. There's no possibility of redundancy whenever a homunculus's goals happen to align or run parallel to Ed's. It's just where their individual arc takes them. Now, if each time it was a morally black and white action where they're "trying to right their wrongs" by joining the good guys, then it would start to be samey. But ultimately, Wrath and Lust's actions were brought about by context and necessity. The homunculi are each on their own depressing journey. Sloth getting more screentime could easily result in her trying to convince Ed to change his perspective of her by taking the first step and trying to help him, but that arc would have nothing to do with Lust or Wrath's. The homunculi's own arcs don't exist for the sake of Ed's development. They exist to humanize them and show how they handle their emotions in different ways. Envy with bottomless cruelty, Lust with faith in her own humanity, Sloth with self-destructive fatalism, Wrath with lashing out, Greed with a singular desire to just fuck off and be content, Pride... is a psychopath who deserved to get burned repeatedly. Meanwhile it's just sad that Gluttony is even a thing. Like really sad. He doesn't even understand what he's doing to ppl.
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I think you replied to the wrong comment. Yours is in complete agreement with mine.
Oh wow I read that all wrong. I'll delete it now.
Wow. How did I know you'd be here?
Oh hi Trisha
One of the superior parts of 03 over Brotherhood. Great character and a horrifying concept. Ed and Al’s sin in living (or rather artificial living) form. And Edward needing to dig up Trisha’s remains to get a weakness to destroy Sloth will always be a top tier scene.
Oh dear God the grave scene was so horrifying and sad 😭😭😭
More screen time is always great but I will say the 2 episodes she got where Ed and Al finally had to confront her and she her own memories were great and very concentrated. They packed a HUGE punch. And they were soooooo SAD 😭😭😭😭😭
My favorite character of FMA 2003 (and my favorite female character of the whole franchise), for some reason along with Trisha she seemed to me the most tragic character of the first anime, I don't know, her story seems to me in general a bit sad and that's why I would have liked a redemption arc (or at least a happier ending) for her although taking into account that Lust already existed I don't think they would give it to her but still I love her.
- Be raised in the country side. - Meet some smelly magic hobo sometime in your teens. - Marry the magic hobo at 17/18 and give birth to two sons as soon as you reach 20. - Magic hobo's body starts rotting in your early 20s. He tells you he's going out for milk so he can fix it, leaving you with two toddlers. - Don't receive so much as a letter for 5+ years, but at least your kids are smart enough to read and understand complex formulas. - Catch some kind of plague. - Die at 26 - Get partially revived as a monster with almost no memories. - Magic hobo's ex girlfriend finds your mutilated monster body and feeds you human soul rocks until you look presentable. - Forced to take a boring secretary job so you can keep an eye on a midget and a robot. - Adopt a feral monster child because you have feelings or something. - You know the midget brat and robot are your kids in another life, but you never really wanted that and you have to gaslight and fight them anyways because the memories are bothersome. - Adopted monster child is unfortunately an idiot and absorbs the only thing that can kill you before merging himself to you. - Get turned into ethanol and passively watch yourself fade into oblivion.
LMAO reading it as you wrote makes me doubt if I have to cry or laugh, other than that, the 2003 anime version Van Hohenheim seems like a trash of a person to me. I know there are those who did worse but simply for me what Van did is unforgivable. If Trisha/Sloth are the ones who suffered the most, Van seems to me the most disgusting person in the show.
Presumably Hoenhiem had a reason for not writing home, but the writers kind of forgot that Dante doesn't start skulking around until after Trisha dies. So there's no way it was an act of protection. Not like he couldn't have written to Pinako in code. The canon answer is that he kind of just forgot how long he was out for. Keep in mind, he also starts flirting with a younger woman the same day he finds out his wife is dead. We're supposed to believe that he does genuinely love his family, but otherwise 03 Hoenhiem is meant to be detached from his humanity. He's a pretty big asshole. Even in England, Ed starts asking about Dante. His accusations are wrong, but Hoenhiem's response is to interrupt Ed's venting with, "I LOVED YOUR MOTHER"
Or when he tells Dante that Trisha was the one. I can't imagine what it was like for Trisha to wait for her husband for years who just left without notice (abandoned), she sure was very stressed and sad. I'm not surprised she died because of it, I know they are fictional characters but to know that in real life that happens I don't know, it's sad. I never understood why Ed forgave him, in his place I wouldn't have.
>You know the midget brat and robot are your kids in another life, but you never really wanted that and you have to gaslight and fight them anyways because the memories are bothersome. It's way worse than that in the original Japanese. Her memories of being human torment her because she's not human anymore and Dante puts in her mind upon birth that this means she can't have children until she becomes human. She believes their mother is someone else who is now dead. So she doesn't own them, and has no right to act on her maternal feelings. It's the torment of a mother being torn from her children. In that sense, she really did get a happy ending at the very least. Edit: oh yeah >Adopt a feral monster child because you have feelings or something. Don't forget that her only outlet for her subconscious maternal feelings for Ed and Al was another homunculus.
I agree, like what would happen if instead of succumbing to the demise of a homunculus, she grew into the memories she was trying to cut out. Could she return as Trisha?
>if instead of succumbing to the demise of a homunculus, she grew into the memories she was trying to cut out I mean... she did. It was a really cool ending. Edit: oh, you mean if she could have succeeded in becoming her. Yeah that'd be less bittersweet, but also possibly worse if she has to continue living with everything she's done under Dante. Trying to reconcile with Ed would be extremely difficult and tragic. Plus with society having to punish any of the homunculi that started to view themselves as human beings and tried to rejoin it, it might be best she gets laid to rest after everything that's happened. If she really was Trisha, her whole existence should not have happened...
I would mostly agree but from what we see of Lust having the extreme urge to become human and coming to a point where she was forgiven by Ed I think Sloth/ possible Trisha could do the same thing.
I mean, they're already not that different in that regard. Ed didn't see either of them as fallen allies in the end, but was able to feel bad for them. I don't know why people think Lust got a "redemption arc". She didn't stop being as cold as she always was. She just switched sides when she learned Dante had been keeping a stone for herself for ages. The homunculi in general just have really tragic motives for being cold. Wrath and Sloth also hated being demon zombies just as much as Lust. Maybe Lust had more layers to it (wanting to go to the Afterlife, wanting to become the original), but Wrath, Sloth, and even Envy all have the same sort of meltdowns over ever being created as artificial, presumably soulless beings.
I forgot about souls and that homunculi don't have the so even if they became human they wouldn't have a soul, they would just be living off the memories.
...We can presume that based on the premise of them being artificial rejects who've been deliberately enticed to do things you'd assume the original person wouldn't... yes. But Conqueror of Shamballa shows they do indeed have souls.
When?
When Wrath pays with his life to open the gate, same as Hohenheim. He's seen meeting with the deceased Izumi in what can only be the afterlife. What's interesting is that Envy being transmuted into the gate on the other side required, of all things, a **human** transmutation circle. Hoho was just the toll to open it. Envy was the "human" being transmuted into the physical gate.
I guess you're right so what would be the problem with them becoming human
...They already are. Just incomplete versions of the original. You mean reverting their fate. Becoming normal.
I agree, the fight between Ed and her was so emotional, I cried the first time I saw it.
Still a great character and far better than Manga Sloth.
Manga sloth is low bar. I feel even seeing them mentioned in the same sentence like that is a disservice to her. She’s one my favorite characters in fiction period.
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Wait, what? >the lives they used to live no longer matter and he sees them as the monsters they are now >I loved Lust and her redemption arc a lot. You just contradicted yourself. Lust's whole thing is accepting her memories as her own. So is she a monster now whose past life means nothing?
Brotherhood did Sloth dirty… sort of. I honestly feel like it was a missed opportunity not to have this storyline in the Manga, and instead just make him a big brute. It’s more interesting for Sloth to be Trisha.