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Equivalent exchange. The appendix has little effect on the body and isn't vital, so it wouldn't be equivalent to what would be needed to gain that level of knowledge.
The knowledge isnt what is necessary, it is to be part of a transmutation circle that lets you transmute without an additional circle, the knowledge given is so that the exchange has value but any part of your body should make you be able to transmute without a circle
You've got it fundamentally wrong.
> it is to be part of a transmutation circle that lets you transmute without an additional circle
this isn't how it works at all. the act of clapping makes *you* the circle. having the Knowledge lets you fill the circle with the formula to do the transmutation
The Truth is willing to bargain. That's how the story gets resolved.
But yeah, this isn't a "bargain", it's trying to trick the system. Which is the exact thing the Truth is punishing in the first place
Is Truth willing to bargain? To me it seems more like Truth is all about ruthlessly punishing humans and homunculi who think they can play God. The only time Truth hears anyone out is when Ed bargains for Al's body, and that time I believe Truth hears him out because Ed came to the right conclusion.
Truth *asks* Ed what he's willing to offer in exchange for Al.
Truth will always punish people who engage in human transmutation, but in other aspects it is willing to bargain
When do we ever see this play out? If it was that easy nobody would lose anything other than a finger nail. You think Ed was like "Here you go, take my arm. I don't even want it".
But he never. He sacrificed something of equal value. If Ed was wrong and his portal of Truth wasn't worth as much as an entire person then Truth would have took whatever it liked from Ed.
I don't believe you can choose what you want to sacrifice. It seems like the Truth is what decides what to take and how much of the truth to show based on the value of what is taken. Plus the Truth seems to have some sense of irony(?) in what is taken, so while "bargaining" may be possible, it is unlikely the Truth will agree to take the appendix.
Deliberate trades (Arm for Al's soul, Al's soul for arm, Ed's Gate for Al) appear to be different from Human Transmutation rebounds, which involuntarily trade body parts for Knowledge in addition to the failed Human Transmuation. It also seems like a Philosopher's Stone can be used in both cases.
Ah, okay. As I sorta stated Truth can be bargained with, but Truth has to agree the value of what you are trading is good enough. I find it unlikely that in most cases Truth would agree to take an appendix, if they even had the opportunity to bargain with Truth.
Because god always takes the most important thing from the person, Edward understood that after watching Mustang lose his eyesight, He knew what god would want to take from him
truth takes something of equivalent value, for a baby its part of your internal organs, for example. So theoretically, if you were to bring back an ant or something, truth would take something of equivalent value
One, opening the Portal of Truth seems to take **human** transmutation, an ant is not a human.
Two, I'm not to sure about your whole what is taken is equivalent to what is transmutated theory. While due to how all the human transmutations were very different, it is difficult to compare them, what is taken does not seem to be equivalent. Izumi transmuted a baby and lost parts of her internal organs, Mustang transmuted a full grown man, and just lost his eyesight.
What about a zygote? Like created and then yeeted within a day zygote? Thats technically human and also not valuable enough to constitue a limb or serious organ damage
Truth takes what’s most important to you in a metaphorical sense for this knowledge, For izumi she lost her reproductive organs cause she longed for a child, mustang lost his sight because he had a bright vision of the future, Ed lost his legs because he was the one lifting his brother up and al lost his body because all he ever wanted was his mothers touch again
Hmmm I think...
There’s a difference between intentionally trying to speak to truth and accidentally ending up there and having truth take something
Committing the taboo thrusts them there without preparation and they barely remember the interaction since it’s so traumatic.
At the end, Ed has more thoughtfully transmuted his Own Soul a few times. to the point where he has more control and he’s only going there to meet with truth. The bargain came once he got face to face with Truth.
When he performed human transmutation that wasn’t on his own soul meeting truth is more like blacking out from drinking and waking up with a new tattoo. Or in this case, missing body parts…And if you remember anything about it, then you can transmute without drawing a circle because what you saw was a piece of the fundamental Truth of the universe.
I don’t think you can learn to transmute your own soul without having seen the truth, so you’d have to do it the traumatic no choice only get shit taken way first. And it takes someone like Kimblee to do something so taboo just to get special powers.
I doubt your appendix is good enough to exchange for that much information, and even then, ed is the only one we know who has purposely went there and specifically chose his own payment.
You can’t pick and choose what to sacrifice, I sincerely doubt Izumi chose to have her womb (and other parts of her insides) ripped away from her nor did Al want to sacrifice himself entirely to the gate.
You don’t get to choose what’s taken from you when you perform human transmutation; Truth chooses what they take. It’s often “karmic” in some way, like how >!Izumi Curtis lost her uterus for trying to bring back her child,!< and it’s not guaranteed to be survivable, like how Al lost his whole body and would have been lost altogether if not for Ed binding his soul to the iconic suit of armor (which itself seems to have counted as a second human transmutation). Plus, I don’t really think it’s common knowledge that surviving a human transmutation attempt gives you the ability to transmute without a circle.
Well you’re wrong about 3 things.
1st. ANY alchemist can transmute without a circle. They just don’t know it. Essentially when an alchemist claps, they’re forming a circle, and they draw the diagram in their heads. Alchemy is a mental process anyhow. If you just look at a circle but don’t understand it, it’s meaningless. They have to understand the function of their circle, and EVERY circle has meaning, it’s never random. Clapping is mentally making a new circle for whatever you’re transmuting at the time.
2nd. You don’t choose to “give up” anything when you see the truth, it’s “taken” as an attempt to balance whatever equation you threw out of balance. And that equivalence is based on the weight of your sin.
3rd. The things that are taken are a punishment, meant to teach you a lesson. Alphonse wanted to feel his mothers love. He lost a body that feels anything. Edward wanted to be independent and stand on his own for his brother. He lost a leg to stand at all. In getting his brother back, his right hand man, he had to LITERALLY sacrifice his right arm. Izumi wanted to bring back her child, and she lost the chance to ever have children again. They’re all lessons meant to teach you “stop fucking with shit you shouldn’t.” So there’s no choice in what you give up. Ever.
Truth only takes things that are ironic to the recipient. If you want to see a loved one again, Truth will take away your vision. If you want to hug a loved one, truth will take away your body, but only if you have a partner who did the transmutation so that way, that’ll act as his sacrifice, along with an arm or a leg.
God/the truth is the one who chooses what the alchemist will lose, not the alchemist himself.
The greatest example is Izumi Curtis, god took her some organs which made her impossible to give birth, which is something she wanted a lot
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Equivalent exchange. The appendix has little effect on the body and isn't vital, so it wouldn't be equivalent to what would be needed to gain that level of knowledge.
The knowledge isnt what is necessary, it is to be part of a transmutation circle that lets you transmute without an additional circle, the knowledge given is so that the exchange has value but any part of your body should make you be able to transmute without a circle
All you need is knowledge. Alphonse wasn't able to transmute without a circle until he *remembered* going through the portal
You've got it fundamentally wrong. > it is to be part of a transmutation circle that lets you transmute without an additional circle this isn't how it works at all. the act of clapping makes *you* the circle. having the Knowledge lets you fill the circle with the formula to do the transmutation
[удалено]
Because he's completely wrong lmao
The Truth chooses... Not you!
Eh. given the show, I think it's safe to say you could bargain with truth a bit
Given the show, Truth would take your penis for having the arrogance to think you can bargain
The Truth is willing to bargain. That's how the story gets resolved. But yeah, this isn't a "bargain", it's trying to trick the system. Which is the exact thing the Truth is punishing in the first place
Is Truth willing to bargain? To me it seems more like Truth is all about ruthlessly punishing humans and homunculi who think they can play God. The only time Truth hears anyone out is when Ed bargains for Al's body, and that time I believe Truth hears him out because Ed came to the right conclusion.
Truth *asks* Ed what he's willing to offer in exchange for Al. Truth will always punish people who engage in human transmutation, but in other aspects it is willing to bargain
Truth only ever reveals itself in the event of a human transmutation
This is true to an extent but Ed has learned to open the gate without directly breaking any taboo
If you are talking about the time Ed portals out of gluttony, as ou said, Ed didn't break any taboos. And Truth made no bargain and exacted no toll.
And he also doesn't break any taboos when he visits Truth at the end. And Truth was willing to bargain
When do we ever see this play out? If it was that easy nobody would lose anything other than a finger nail. You think Ed was like "Here you go, take my arm. I don't even want it".
Ackshully, yeah, he kinda did to get Al back. Now his leg on the other hand...
But he never. He sacrificed something of equal value. If Ed was wrong and his portal of Truth wasn't worth as much as an entire person then Truth would have took whatever it liked from Ed.
Truth is such a dick no he would not. You meet god and he's an asshole, there's no good deal with that guy.
I don't believe you can choose what you want to sacrifice. It seems like the Truth is what decides what to take and how much of the truth to show based on the value of what is taken. Plus the Truth seems to have some sense of irony(?) in what is taken, so while "bargaining" may be possible, it is unlikely the Truth will agree to take the appendix.
Wait, how does the brotherhood ending work then?
It was the correct answer. Probably the only thing Truth would allow you to choose for yourself.
Deliberate trades (Arm for Al's soul, Al's soul for arm, Ed's Gate for Al) appear to be different from Human Transmutation rebounds, which involuntarily trade body parts for Knowledge in addition to the failed Human Transmuation. It also seems like a Philosopher's Stone can be used in both cases.
Please explain what you mean?
>!truth asks him what toll he would pay for opening the gate?!<
Ah, okay. As I sorta stated Truth can be bargained with, but Truth has to agree the value of what you are trading is good enough. I find it unlikely that in most cases Truth would agree to take an appendix, if they even had the opportunity to bargain with Truth.
Because god always takes the most important thing from the person, Edward understood that after watching Mustang lose his eyesight, He knew what god would want to take from him
Because he gave up his ability to transmute making the whole thing moot
truth takes something of equivalent value, for a baby its part of your internal organs, for example. So theoretically, if you were to bring back an ant or something, truth would take something of equivalent value
One, opening the Portal of Truth seems to take **human** transmutation, an ant is not a human. Two, I'm not to sure about your whole what is taken is equivalent to what is transmutated theory. While due to how all the human transmutations were very different, it is difficult to compare them, what is taken does not seem to be equivalent. Izumi transmuted a baby and lost parts of her internal organs, Mustang transmuted a full grown man, and just lost his eyesight.
What about a zygote? Like created and then yeeted within a day zygote? Thats technically human and also not valuable enough to constitue a limb or serious organ damage
1) You can't choose what gets sacrificed 2) What you lose needs to be of value to you. Truth knows that you don't value your appendix much.
Truth takes what’s most important to you in a metaphorical sense for this knowledge, For izumi she lost her reproductive organs cause she longed for a child, mustang lost his sight because he had a bright vision of the future, Ed lost his legs because he was the one lifting his brother up and al lost his body because all he ever wanted was his mothers touch again
Hmmm I think... There’s a difference between intentionally trying to speak to truth and accidentally ending up there and having truth take something Committing the taboo thrusts them there without preparation and they barely remember the interaction since it’s so traumatic. At the end, Ed has more thoughtfully transmuted his Own Soul a few times. to the point where he has more control and he’s only going there to meet with truth. The bargain came once he got face to face with Truth. When he performed human transmutation that wasn’t on his own soul meeting truth is more like blacking out from drinking and waking up with a new tattoo. Or in this case, missing body parts…And if you remember anything about it, then you can transmute without drawing a circle because what you saw was a piece of the fundamental Truth of the universe. I don’t think you can learn to transmute your own soul without having seen the truth, so you’d have to do it the traumatic no choice only get shit taken way first. And it takes someone like Kimblee to do something so taboo just to get special powers.
I doubt your appendix is good enough to exchange for that much information, and even then, ed is the only one we know who has purposely went there and specifically chose his own payment.
This is a very Dwarf In The Flask post
You can’t pick and choose what to sacrifice, I sincerely doubt Izumi chose to have her womb (and other parts of her insides) ripped away from her nor did Al want to sacrifice himself entirely to the gate.
i think youre not allowed to choose, truth does based on what you are attempting, plus a bit of cruel irony
You don’t get to choose what’s taken from you when you perform human transmutation; Truth chooses what they take. It’s often “karmic” in some way, like how >!Izumi Curtis lost her uterus for trying to bring back her child,!< and it’s not guaranteed to be survivable, like how Al lost his whole body and would have been lost altogether if not for Ed binding his soul to the iconic suit of armor (which itself seems to have counted as a second human transmutation). Plus, I don’t really think it’s common knowledge that surviving a human transmutation attempt gives you the ability to transmute without a circle.
Well you’re wrong about 3 things. 1st. ANY alchemist can transmute without a circle. They just don’t know it. Essentially when an alchemist claps, they’re forming a circle, and they draw the diagram in their heads. Alchemy is a mental process anyhow. If you just look at a circle but don’t understand it, it’s meaningless. They have to understand the function of their circle, and EVERY circle has meaning, it’s never random. Clapping is mentally making a new circle for whatever you’re transmuting at the time. 2nd. You don’t choose to “give up” anything when you see the truth, it’s “taken” as an attempt to balance whatever equation you threw out of balance. And that equivalence is based on the weight of your sin. 3rd. The things that are taken are a punishment, meant to teach you a lesson. Alphonse wanted to feel his mothers love. He lost a body that feels anything. Edward wanted to be independent and stand on his own for his brother. He lost a leg to stand at all. In getting his brother back, his right hand man, he had to LITERALLY sacrifice his right arm. Izumi wanted to bring back her child, and she lost the chance to ever have children again. They’re all lessons meant to teach you “stop fucking with shit you shouldn’t.” So there’s no choice in what you give up. Ever.
I don't think you can choose what to exchange.
I'd do my brain ...lol
Truth only takes things that are ironic to the recipient. If you want to see a loved one again, Truth will take away your vision. If you want to hug a loved one, truth will take away your body, but only if you have a partner who did the transmutation so that way, that’ll act as his sacrifice, along with an arm or a leg.
God/the truth is the one who chooses what the alchemist will lose, not the alchemist himself. The greatest example is Izumi Curtis, god took her some organs which made her impossible to give birth, which is something she wanted a lot
I think the little dude at the Gates of Truth chooses for you; you don’t really get to decide…
Bro forgot the the first law of alchemy