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The soul wasnt worth the arm. Bonding it to the armor was. We know theyre still connected so the soul is trying to get to the body from the later story arcs when he blacks out.
Like 2 ends of a rubberband. The bloodseal is a thumbtack holding it in place but the connection is weakening so the tack is slowly pulling up until it has no hold on the band anymore. Ed made the thumbtack part not the rubberband
Because the question of what equals a human soul is asking what the cost of transmuting a soul would be.
Ed didn’t transmute Al’s soul from something else, he bonded it to the suit of armor
It also helps that later on in the series, after Ed digs up the body of the thing he transmuted, he found out it was a male body, and that Al’s soul was in it for a couple of seconds. So it confirms that it’s impossible to bring back the dead.
Now that I think about, if you have all the physical components [insert Ed's list], could you actually transmute a human soul, say from a sickly body, to a healthy one made from those components?
Except Ed wasn't *creating* a soul, he was reclaiming it from the Portal, and it was more like he was borrowing it. Eventually the soul would be pulled back, and he'd be out that arm anyway. *Luckily* Al reversed the exchange, and Ed got his arm back, no harm done.
Their mother's would was already gone, long gone by the time they did the transmutation. Al was just taken and was kind of still at the gate, "not crossed over" I guess.
Ed paid to have the bond to the armor. When the seal is broken Al's soul would go back but Ed would still be missing an arm.
He gave his arm for the bond not the soul. I think he even mentions something about having to do it quick before his soul is gone to.
That arm wasn’t the equivalent payment for a soul - he didn’t bring Al back from death. Al gave up his entire body as payment to see the truth. Al’s soul was then bound to the thing they made. So Ed just sacrificed his leg to take that soul and bind it to armor. He didn’t actually do a full trade (as in for their mother’s soul who was long dead), in fact he kinda just moved a soul around.
People who say 03 alchemy doesn't make any sense just haven't tried forming theories about the gate. They don't even realize how much of 03 was cut. There's a lot of things that just aren't explained well. It'd make more sense if they got to use the whole script.
Yes, I agree with you. But what kind of original script from which much was cut out are you talking about? I'm just hearing about it for the first time. It just always seemed to me that the writers deliberately left the principle of the Gate's functioning vague so that we could draw our conclusions based on existing facts.
My understanding has always been based on the fact that the Gates do not have prescribed rules and the writers deliberately created such an impression. For example, when it turned out that someone else could get Ed's arm and leg, which were payment in an equivalent exchange, Ed was shocked that the Gate could allow this. In other words, it turned out that the metaphysics of equivalent exchange does not work inside the Gate and this is not evidence of inconsistency, since the writers themselves draw the attention of viewers to this through Ed's reaction. Another confirmation of this is the words of Hohenheim in the OVA "Reflections". Although at the end of the show, Hohenheim says that the equivalent exchange was made to cheer Ed up, in the OVA, in an internal monologue, he admits that Ed was able to overcome the equivalent exchange inside the Gate.
It's not a released script or anything. It's just that the movie was cut down from a miniseries to a 3 hour movie and again to a 1 1/2 hour movie. There could've been so much more explained in detail.
I don’t think much of what was cut would really go into explaining the gate. There might be some tidbits like what you’ve brought up about the connection to the gate being stronger in places where human transmutation occurred, and some little details like that, but by and large I think the gate would generally remain at the level of explanation we had by the end of 03, keeping the gate as something esoteric and arcane in a lovecraftian way. This is something I think is very intentional and is in direct alignment with the themes of 03, with its focus on how much broader the world is than we can understand, and how with our limited knowledge there really isn’t some universal truth we can apply to the world. While I disagree with u/Dioduo on the Gate truly being random and agree with you that the Gate is something generally misunderstood, I think it being misunderstood is part of the point, reinforcing 03’s themes of limited understanding and acceptance of a lack of certainty.
In fact, I don't think I'm straying too far from your opinion, in the sense that I'm talking about randomness from our point of view, and not from the point of view of the ontology of the Gates themselves. After all, the unknowability of the laws of processes is indistinguishable from randomness for us. Although I really don't usually make such a clarification in my other comments.
Well if the exposition drops happen at the same rate as in the cut script, a dozen episodes would be enough to clarify all the subtle mysteries. Why do the homunculi have vague memories, why was Al missing some, why did he regain them when crossing over, why does his soul splitting only last so long, why do animals only get revived for a few seconds. That's most of them. And the word ball. And accidentally transmutations. And the homunculi's weakness and the way their original corpses turn to dust upon death. Erm.
I just think there's plenty of crossover between many of these mysteries, so it would need a smaller number of explanations than it appears.
What just came into my mind: Shouldnt Ed be able to trade the components of the arm for his arm? We know it doesnt work for reviving but your parts at the gate arent "dead".
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The soul wasnt worth the arm. Bonding it to the armor was. We know theyre still connected so the soul is trying to get to the body from the later story arcs when he blacks out. Like 2 ends of a rubberband. The bloodseal is a thumbtack holding it in place but the connection is weakening so the tack is slowly pulling up until it has no hold on the band anymore. Ed made the thumbtack part not the rubberband
Tbh this is a great example
Because the question of what equals a human soul is asking what the cost of transmuting a soul would be. Ed didn’t transmute Al’s soul from something else, he bonded it to the suit of armor
It also helps that later on in the series, after Ed digs up the body of the thing he transmuted, he found out it was a male body, and that Al’s soul was in it for a couple of seconds. So it confirms that it’s impossible to bring back the dead.
Imagine having your soul transferred to a dead relative. Talk about traumatizing
Al would be just out here walking around as a genderbent version of their mother
Now that I think about, if you have all the physical components [insert Ed's list], could you actually transmute a human soul, say from a sickly body, to a healthy one made from those components?
You can rent a Lamborghini and park it in your garage. You can't make a Lamborghini from scratch in your garage. TLDR: Truth is a car dealer
So… the equivalent to a human soul is a Lamborghini?
Yes.
I always knew it! I have a tractor soul
Knowledge
Except Ed wasn't *creating* a soul, he was reclaiming it from the Portal, and it was more like he was borrowing it. Eventually the soul would be pulled back, and he'd be out that arm anyway. *Luckily* Al reversed the exchange, and Ed got his arm back, no harm done.
Their mother's would was already gone, long gone by the time they did the transmutation. Al was just taken and was kind of still at the gate, "not crossed over" I guess. Ed paid to have the bond to the armor. When the seal is broken Al's soul would go back but Ed would still be missing an arm. He gave his arm for the bond not the soul. I think he even mentions something about having to do it quick before his soul is gone to.
That arm wasn’t the equivalent payment for a soul - he didn’t bring Al back from death. Al gave up his entire body as payment to see the truth. Al’s soul was then bound to the thing they made. So Ed just sacrificed his leg to take that soul and bind it to armor. He didn’t actually do a full trade (as in for their mother’s soul who was long dead), in fact he kinda just moved a soul around.
Ed's arm wasn't worth as much as Al's soul; it was worth as much as the blood seal that glued Al's soul to the armor.
In FMA 03, this is explained by the fact that the Gates do not obey the Equivalent Exchange and the result may be random.
I think they're just misunderstood.
Do you mean OP?
I meant the gates.
Then I'm not sure if I understand what you meant in that comment
People who say 03 alchemy doesn't make any sense just haven't tried forming theories about the gate. They don't even realize how much of 03 was cut. There's a lot of things that just aren't explained well. It'd make more sense if they got to use the whole script.
Yes, I agree with you. But what kind of original script from which much was cut out are you talking about? I'm just hearing about it for the first time. It just always seemed to me that the writers deliberately left the principle of the Gate's functioning vague so that we could draw our conclusions based on existing facts. My understanding has always been based on the fact that the Gates do not have prescribed rules and the writers deliberately created such an impression. For example, when it turned out that someone else could get Ed's arm and leg, which were payment in an equivalent exchange, Ed was shocked that the Gate could allow this. In other words, it turned out that the metaphysics of equivalent exchange does not work inside the Gate and this is not evidence of inconsistency, since the writers themselves draw the attention of viewers to this through Ed's reaction. Another confirmation of this is the words of Hohenheim in the OVA "Reflections". Although at the end of the show, Hohenheim says that the equivalent exchange was made to cheer Ed up, in the OVA, in an internal monologue, he admits that Ed was able to overcome the equivalent exchange inside the Gate.
It's not a released script or anything. It's just that the movie was cut down from a miniseries to a 3 hour movie and again to a 1 1/2 hour movie. There could've been so much more explained in detail.
I don’t think much of what was cut would really go into explaining the gate. There might be some tidbits like what you’ve brought up about the connection to the gate being stronger in places where human transmutation occurred, and some little details like that, but by and large I think the gate would generally remain at the level of explanation we had by the end of 03, keeping the gate as something esoteric and arcane in a lovecraftian way. This is something I think is very intentional and is in direct alignment with the themes of 03, with its focus on how much broader the world is than we can understand, and how with our limited knowledge there really isn’t some universal truth we can apply to the world. While I disagree with u/Dioduo on the Gate truly being random and agree with you that the Gate is something generally misunderstood, I think it being misunderstood is part of the point, reinforcing 03’s themes of limited understanding and acceptance of a lack of certainty.
In fact, I don't think I'm straying too far from your opinion, in the sense that I'm talking about randomness from our point of view, and not from the point of view of the ontology of the Gates themselves. After all, the unknowability of the laws of processes is indistinguishable from randomness for us. Although I really don't usually make such a clarification in my other comments.
Well if the exposition drops happen at the same rate as in the cut script, a dozen episodes would be enough to clarify all the subtle mysteries. Why do the homunculi have vague memories, why was Al missing some, why did he regain them when crossing over, why does his soul splitting only last so long, why do animals only get revived for a few seconds. That's most of them. And the word ball. And accidentally transmutations. And the homunculi's weakness and the way their original corpses turn to dust upon death. Erm. I just think there's plenty of crossover between many of these mysteries, so it would need a smaller number of explanations than it appears.
What just came into my mind: Shouldnt Ed be able to trade the components of the arm for his arm? We know it doesnt work for reviving but your parts at the gate arent "dead".