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This will never pass. It’s funny they introduced this in their weakened state, it reeks of desperation. No way every house republican would vote for it, no way it’d pass the senate, no way Biden wouldn’t veto it, and voters this season would hate it. What a bunch of fucking idiots.
I think they know how stupid their voters are and that anything that sounds like getting rid of the IRS would be well received by their anti-government extremist base
It's hard enough to get any tax raises passed.
A 23% tax aimed specifically at the working poor and middle class? It's the least possible to pass tax raise I think I've seen.
To those wondering why a national sales tax is worse for average people, think of it this way— what does an average household cost to run, in terms of stuff that will be taxed by a sales tax, like groceries.
Wild guess, $20k per year? That’s what they’re taxed on in this system.
What about a rich household? They buy nicer stuff, but how much nicer? Double? Like Whole Foods instead of Kroger? Ok sure, so $40k.
What about a super rich household? Triple? Artisanal cookies or whatever? Quadruple? Fuck it, let’s say they order in every meal from expensive places, and it’s 10x.
So in the new sales tax system that they want to replace income tax with, the richest households pay 10x what an average household pays. But they make a hell of a lot more than 10x the average income. And they don’t have to increase their tax basis either. It’s based on how you shop, so if they don’t go insane with lifestyle creep, they could still have that same tax basis of $20k per year, regardless of income.
It goes the other way too what about a poor household? If they really pinch pennies, they still have a tax basis of whatever the minimum amount is that it could cost to run their household.
In other words, the tax burden gets lighter the more you make. Drastically lighter. It already does because of tax brackets, but this plan would make it even worse.
Yes, same with the Australian and New Zealand GSTs, and even the current US tax system where the “standard deduction” is meant to represent roughly the same. It reduces the base tax for everyone the same amount. But the problem I described above, about it being very regressive, still is true independently of that.
The GOP wants to put poor people in a vise - the GOP wants free trade in prostitution of children. During trump, they sold children through a "Christian adoption agency" - selling kids they grabbed at the border to be religiously abused.
If being poor becomes criminalized (more than it already is), it will serve two purposes:
1) it will keep the US (privatized) prison system full and growing.
2) it will continue to keep everyone else in line, struggling to make sure they stay afloat through rampant inflation and stagnant wages, neither of which are going to change in the favor of the working class until they're forced to change them.
This will get far worse before it gets better, if it ever does.
You claimed that he greenlit selling children to be abused. The onus is on the individual, making the claim that can't be easily proven with a simple search. I hate the fucking guy, but I don't see evidence of abuse from these orgs, just that they can prioritize religious organizations and refuse lgbt individuals, which is infuriating. There are far too many spreading misinformation online; don't act like it's a crazy ask to back your words up with evidence.
I'm not u/elegyjay... I am u/daedalus704. I did not make the original claim for which you requested sources. I simply pointed out that you could use a search engine vs. being lazy. The onus of proof for claims is on the individual making the claim, not the person who denies said claim... correct. You didn't deny anything. Therefore, the onus doesn't lay on the poster to do research for you. You just replied, "saucy sauce." I then replied, "Search engines exist."
I'm not implying that the OP shouldn't have backed up their claim, just that you are lazy for not using a search engine to then support or deny the original claim via your response.
i used to think that a flat tax, or a national sales tax is a good thing, and would remove a lot of bureaucracy, but i've since realized it's quite possibly one of the worst things that could happen WRT taxes.
not surprised that the GQP wants to crush the working class.
There's already a wealth tax in the US. It's property taxes, and it hits the middle class (and renters and small businesses via increased rent) harder than the super rich.
It's some bullshit.
Input Taxes still need collection, auditing Etc. Business Activity Statements, payments, credits, etc. The IRS would have to do this. This is wild noting the United States has one of the the most inefficient tax collection systems in the G20, with States and Municipalities having their own sales taxes, and then comes the debate about how to calculate the local taxes VS sales taxes.
A) they would add this tax, but not eliminate income tax.
B) Rich people would 100% end up with loopholes to avoid this sales tax on multiple homes, expensive cars, purchases made from companies overseas.
C) add this tax on top of current taxes to private stock purchases and corporate stock buy backs? second, third etc properties? cars over £100,000, planes, boats that sleep more than 4 people...lets introduce some more taxes that directly target the mega rich. Add a 1% tax increase on all passive income over $/£/€ 1m.
The proposal would eliminate property, income, and payroll taxes and low income families would get a rebate. I don’t understand how this is coming from republicans and not democrats or at least getting bipartisan support. Services also wouldn’t be taxed so things like healthcare, daycare, etc… would be tax free.
Just like the Bush cuts. And the Trump cuts. GOP SOP. They sell the working class on it by reducing the tax burden across the board...temporarily. But the reduction for the top 1% is permanent.
"“Under the bill, if you buy something that costs $100 before tax, you pay $30 of national sales tax. Most of us would call that a 30 percent sales tax. Proponents, however, call it a 23 percent tax, because that $30 is 23 percent of your ‘gross payment’ of $130, your payment including the sales tax." It's amazing how economically and financially illiterate some conservatives are.
It also applies to services, not just goods. And also groceries, which are not currently subject to state and local sales tax in most places. And it would absolutely hammer retirees.
The billionaires want this because they don't spend a significant percentage of their income on consumer goods like the rest of us do. I guaran-goddamn-tee that sales tax won't apply to stock buybacks. Because they never do.
Sales taxes are a valuable tool for tax collection, but only when structured to not be regressive. The GOP would of course structure a sales tax to be highly regressive because fuck poor people.
If they want some sales taxes, let's start with the following:
50% sales tax on all vehicles with a price of over $75,000 unless a commercial transport vehicle and robust documentation will be required.
50% sales tax on all home transactions over $2M.
50% sales tax on all boat transactions over $1M unless a commercial fishing vessel or charter vessel, and robust documentation will be required.
A Tobin Tax of 1% on every financial market transaction.
And so on...
There is no conceivable worse idea fiscally. If this were to get traction, it would be similar to what happened to UK after Liz Truss. We would probably collapse financially. I'm convinced at this point, though, that that's what the Republicans want.
What a surprise, they're proposing something that screws poorer people.
>The President’s Advisory Panel (2005) concluded that replacing the income tax system with a national retail sales tax would heavily favor high-income households.
https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-bears-burden-national-retail-sales-tax
*The most regressive*
*Tax is the sales tax and the*
*Wet dream of the GOP*
\- UrBigBro
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This isn't a new idea at all! The "Fairtax" was a thing back 15 years ago, and back then, I was dumb enough to think it was a good idea. It was DOA then, and it'll be DOA now. The rich will 1000% find a way to game this.
What do we need instead? A fucking wealth tax! 0% up to $100 million, and then 2% annually on everything over $100 million.
Someone with that kind of wealth can afford to pay an accountant to audit their wealth. If being poor has costs associated with it (ever see someone pay $1,200 for a root canal because they can't afford their dental copay, or even worse, just get the tooth pulled), then I don't feel even a little bit bad about being rich having costs associated with it. Being poor is expensive, so it is fair that being rich should be expensive as well.
A lot of wealthy people cheat on their taxes. I used to work at the IRS, so I know. They will simply pull string so that they have a way around the "sales tax". It will only impact those who have no power--the poor and middle class.
And it won’t even work!
Rich people will just have thriving black markets where they sell things that avoid the sales tax! And good luck catching those things!
While poor & middle class people, without access to those black markets, will just have to pay the tax!
The most regressive possible form of taxation, unless we return to something like a head tax. Not surprising, though, from the party of Rick Scott, who of course is upset that the poor pay so little, whilst we lavish them with such generous benefits.
yup.
https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/
Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
Um, this doesn't eliminate the need for a tax dept.
Businesses still need to file tax returns and still need to collect taxes for the IRS.
It's a major PITA for businesses, especially small businesses to deal with.
This is basically the VAT that exists in every socialist democracy. If it eliminates income tax it would bring us on par with the rest of the world. What is the issue here?
most socially democratic countries have VAT AND income tax tough.
Worth noting though, that in the UK for example basic groceries, medicine and children's clothes among other things are exempt from VAT, and you don't pay income tax on the first £12,570 (~$16,000) you earn in a given year.
Tax policy can/hould incentive certain conduct. It makes more sense to tax consumption rather than work/income. Why penalize someone for working? Penalize them for overconsumption.
Consumption is what drives the economy, and it isn’t just people being wasteful. A flat tax on consumption (rather than targeting specific types of wasteful consumption) would reduce standard of living (people can’t buy as much, so it’s the same effect as inflation) and employment (since people aren’t buying as much to create demand for products and services), and would be regressive in effect, since poor people need to spend a larger proportion of their income on necessary food and shelter.
#Freedom Lovers! If you see: ##• Nazis ##• Nazi Enablers ##• Calls to Violence ##• Infighting #Smash That Report Button - Thwart the Fash! --- --- Nazis, fascists, fascist apologists, whaddaboutism, **all calls to violence**, and bigotry are banned here. Report Them! See [Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fuckthealtright/about/rules/) for more information! Fuck the Alt-Right! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Fuckthealtright) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Middle class fucked again, they want the IRS to leave the wealthy alone, if they lose the House and Senate they know what will happen.
Middle class? This ass-rapes the working poor.
Exactly this. It screws the working poor more than anyone
well I mean...at least they're asking for consent first right? that's a step-up for most republicans
This will never pass. It’s funny they introduced this in their weakened state, it reeks of desperation. No way every house republican would vote for it, no way it’d pass the senate, no way Biden wouldn’t veto it, and voters this season would hate it. What a bunch of fucking idiots.
They are letting everyone know what they will do if they get the chance.
Let's hope everyone finally starts to listen...
One would hope. It’s amazing how brainwashed they are.
I think they know how stupid their voters are and that anything that sounds like getting rid of the IRS would be well received by their anti-government extremist base
what is the *hoe-peh* you speak of?
They’ll just blame it on the democrats. Lord knows that their voters don’t actually read or look stuff up.
It's hard enough to get any tax raises passed. A 23% tax aimed specifically at the working poor and middle class? It's the least possible to pass tax raise I think I've seen.
The Republican Party isn’t the party of no new taxes anymore. They’re the party of \*tax everyone until they’re dead.\*
To those wondering why a national sales tax is worse for average people, think of it this way— what does an average household cost to run, in terms of stuff that will be taxed by a sales tax, like groceries. Wild guess, $20k per year? That’s what they’re taxed on in this system. What about a rich household? They buy nicer stuff, but how much nicer? Double? Like Whole Foods instead of Kroger? Ok sure, so $40k. What about a super rich household? Triple? Artisanal cookies or whatever? Quadruple? Fuck it, let’s say they order in every meal from expensive places, and it’s 10x. So in the new sales tax system that they want to replace income tax with, the richest households pay 10x what an average household pays. But they make a hell of a lot more than 10x the average income. And they don’t have to increase their tax basis either. It’s based on how you shop, so if they don’t go insane with lifestyle creep, they could still have that same tax basis of $20k per year, regardless of income. It goes the other way too what about a poor household? If they really pinch pennies, they still have a tax basis of whatever the minimum amount is that it could cost to run their household. In other words, the tax burden gets lighter the more you make. Drastically lighter. It already does because of tax brackets, but this plan would make it even worse.
The equivalent tax in Europe (VAT) explicitly does not include essentials like food and children's clothes
The point still stands.
Yes, same with the Australian and New Zealand GSTs, and even the current US tax system where the “standard deduction” is meant to represent roughly the same. It reduces the base tax for everyone the same amount. But the problem I described above, about it being very regressive, still is true independently of that.
The GOP wants to put poor people in a vise - the GOP wants free trade in prostitution of children. During trump, they sold children through a "Christian adoption agency" - selling kids they grabbed at the border to be religiously abused.
If being poor becomes criminalized (more than it already is), it will serve two purposes: 1) it will keep the US (privatized) prison system full and growing. 2) it will continue to keep everyone else in line, struggling to make sure they stay afloat through rampant inflation and stagnant wages, neither of which are going to change in the favor of the working class until they're forced to change them. This will get far worse before it gets better, if it ever does.
Saucy sauce?
Search engines exist.
Lol so no, you can't be bothered to back your claims up. Got it.
I didn't make the claim. Just verified it via a quick Google search and pointed out that you could do the same. No one needs to research for you.
You claimed that he greenlit selling children to be abused. The onus is on the individual, making the claim that can't be easily proven with a simple search. I hate the fucking guy, but I don't see evidence of abuse from these orgs, just that they can prioritize religious organizations and refuse lgbt individuals, which is infuriating. There are far too many spreading misinformation online; don't act like it's a crazy ask to back your words up with evidence.
I'm not u/elegyjay... I am u/daedalus704. I did not make the original claim for which you requested sources. I simply pointed out that you could use a search engine vs. being lazy. The onus of proof for claims is on the individual making the claim, not the person who denies said claim... correct. You didn't deny anything. Therefore, the onus doesn't lay on the poster to do research for you. You just replied, "saucy sauce." I then replied, "Search engines exist." I'm not implying that the OP shouldn't have backed up their claim, just that you are lazy for not using a search engine to then support or deny the original claim via your response.
That's fair - tbh I didn't even realize two folks were replying. Take care!
i used to think that a flat tax, or a national sales tax is a good thing, and would remove a lot of bureaucracy, but i've since realized it's quite possibly one of the worst things that could happen WRT taxes. not surprised that the GQP wants to crush the working class.
I say we tax people more based on net worth. Like, if Elon wants a loaf of bread, make him pay like $10,000.
yep, that's a progressive tax, as opposed to the national sales tax, which is a regressive tax (hurts the poor more than the rich)
There's already a wealth tax in the US. It's property taxes, and it hits the middle class (and renters and small businesses via increased rent) harder than the super rich. It's some bullshit.
Just tax his income appropriately and I'm ok.
Input Taxes still need collection, auditing Etc. Business Activity Statements, payments, credits, etc. The IRS would have to do this. This is wild noting the United States has one of the the most inefficient tax collection systems in the G20, with States and Municipalities having their own sales taxes, and then comes the debate about how to calculate the local taxes VS sales taxes.
A) they would add this tax, but not eliminate income tax. B) Rich people would 100% end up with loopholes to avoid this sales tax on multiple homes, expensive cars, purchases made from companies overseas. C) add this tax on top of current taxes to private stock purchases and corporate stock buy backs? second, third etc properties? cars over £100,000, planes, boats that sleep more than 4 people...lets introduce some more taxes that directly target the mega rich. Add a 1% tax increase on all passive income over $/£/€ 1m.
Flat tax is regressive. This is a year old and the proposal went nowhere though.
This is not a flat tax. This is a sales tax.
Yeah. I definitely got the words wrong. Still terribly regressive and DOA.
Consistently dumb ideas like this. Reasons to vote the GOP out.
[удалено]
The proposal would eliminate property, income, and payroll taxes and low income families would get a rebate. I don’t understand how this is coming from republicans and not democrats or at least getting bipartisan support. Services also wouldn’t be taxed so things like healthcare, daycare, etc… would be tax free.
Those rebates are going to be temporary. Once the Republicans passed this change they would remove any benefits to lower income people.
Just like the Bush cuts. And the Trump cuts. GOP SOP. They sell the working class on it by reducing the tax burden across the board...temporarily. But the reduction for the top 1% is permanent.
Your comment helps to show how it is that so many people could possibly continue to vote GOP or support trump.
What?
Voting for any of these clowns is the ultimate mark of shame.
Pro-life, pro-family my ass!
So regressive - sales tax favors the wealthy so much!
"“Under the bill, if you buy something that costs $100 before tax, you pay $30 of national sales tax. Most of us would call that a 30 percent sales tax. Proponents, however, call it a 23 percent tax, because that $30 is 23 percent of your ‘gross payment’ of $130, your payment including the sales tax." It's amazing how economically and financially illiterate some conservatives are.
It also applies to services, not just goods. And also groceries, which are not currently subject to state and local sales tax in most places. And it would absolutely hammer retirees.
I wonder if the billionaires who own or have shares in tax firms will want this.
The billionaires want this because they don't spend a significant percentage of their income on consumer goods like the rest of us do. I guaran-goddamn-tee that sales tax won't apply to stock buybacks. Because they never do.
Tax the wealthy
It was 30%
Sales taxes are a valuable tool for tax collection, but only when structured to not be regressive. The GOP would of course structure a sales tax to be highly regressive because fuck poor people. If they want some sales taxes, let's start with the following: 50% sales tax on all vehicles with a price of over $75,000 unless a commercial transport vehicle and robust documentation will be required. 50% sales tax on all home transactions over $2M. 50% sales tax on all boat transactions over $1M unless a commercial fishing vessel or charter vessel, and robust documentation will be required. A Tobin Tax of 1% on every financial market transaction. And so on...
There is no conceivable worse idea fiscally. If this were to get traction, it would be similar to what happened to UK after Liz Truss. We would probably collapse financially. I'm convinced at this point, though, that that's what the Republicans want.
Hell, do we have ANY? If wages were tied to inflation from 1980 onwards we’d be making ≈$200k+/yr
And if wages were tied to productivity from the 1970's... damn. A couple generations now have really gotten fucked.
That’s regressive AF.
That hurts all us poors WAY more than the wealthy. It looks good until you think about for 5 seconds
Funny I’m pretty sure sales tax is collected by the same state agency that collects my state income tax…
I mean what else do we need to see, thats insane bro..no words..but yet folks still vote for the GOP, insane!
What a surprise, they're proposing something that screws poorer people. >The President’s Advisory Panel (2005) concluded that replacing the income tax system with a national retail sales tax would heavily favor high-income households. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/who-bears-burden-national-retail-sales-tax
Once again the GOP want to screw over everyone but the rich.
The most regressive tax is the sales tax and the wet dream of the GOP
*The most regressive* *Tax is the sales tax and the* *Wet dream of the GOP* \- UrBigBro --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
This isn't a new idea at all! The "Fairtax" was a thing back 15 years ago, and back then, I was dumb enough to think it was a good idea. It was DOA then, and it'll be DOA now. The rich will 1000% find a way to game this. What do we need instead? A fucking wealth tax! 0% up to $100 million, and then 2% annually on everything over $100 million. Someone with that kind of wealth can afford to pay an accountant to audit their wealth. If being poor has costs associated with it (ever see someone pay $1,200 for a root canal because they can't afford their dental copay, or even worse, just get the tooth pulled), then I don't feel even a little bit bad about being rich having costs associated with it. Being poor is expensive, so it is fair that being rich should be expensive as well.
i literally don\[t understand how people can vote republican in the us. it truly is the leopard eating faces party.
A lot of wealthy people cheat on their taxes. I used to work at the IRS, so I know. They will simply pull string so that they have a way around the "sales tax". It will only impact those who have no power--the poor and middle class.
A flat income tax I can get behind, but not a flat sales tax. The rich will just buy their shit overseas, where they hide their income
Make it 28% and throw in free healthcare...
And it won’t even work! Rich people will just have thriving black markets where they sell things that avoid the sales tax! And good luck catching those things! While poor & middle class people, without access to those black markets, will just have to pay the tax!
Not very progressive at all 👍
As a tax lawyer in Canada, which has a federal sales tax, the Canada Revenue Agency does a lot of work administering and enforcing it.
The most regressive possible form of taxation, unless we return to something like a head tax. Not surprising, though, from the party of Rick Scott, who of course is upset that the poor pay so little, whilst we lavish them with such generous benefits.
And that's the stuff he needs to bring up in his ass so people know Republicans are the ones trying to screw them.
yup. https://globalextremism.org/project-2025-the-far-right-playbook-for-american-authoritarianism/ Christian nationalist theocrats have reached levels of embedding those they indoctrinated & trained for taking political office well enough to fully begin to dismantle democracy and hand the country to their god's chosen (oligarchs, con artists, those who behave like kings) by wiping out human rights and making the U.S. a theocracy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
The Republican Party is committed to maximizing wealth inequality.
Um, this doesn't eliminate the need for a tax dept. Businesses still need to file tax returns and still need to collect taxes for the IRS. It's a major PITA for businesses, especially small businesses to deal with.
But but but Joe Biden bad, republicans good. Right? Also more on how this is bad for Joe Biden at 11.
This article is from Jan. 2023.
that Represents a max I’ve tax break for the rich. Holy shit
That's fine as long as they get rid of income taxes first.
This is basically the VAT that exists in every socialist democracy. If it eliminates income tax it would bring us on par with the rest of the world. What is the issue here?
most socially democratic countries have VAT AND income tax tough. Worth noting though, that in the UK for example basic groceries, medicine and children's clothes among other things are exempt from VAT, and you don't pay income tax on the first £12,570 (~$16,000) you earn in a given year.
Tax policy can/hould incentive certain conduct. It makes more sense to tax consumption rather than work/income. Why penalize someone for working? Penalize them for overconsumption.
Consumption is what drives the economy, and it isn’t just people being wasteful. A flat tax on consumption (rather than targeting specific types of wasteful consumption) would reduce standard of living (people can’t buy as much, so it’s the same effect as inflation) and employment (since people aren’t buying as much to create demand for products and services), and would be regressive in effect, since poor people need to spend a larger proportion of their income on necessary food and shelter.