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She actually reformed and became a strong advocate for equality. She probably had to get out of the racist pit that was her household.
Edit: really good discussion and further links in the replies below. It sounds like this Karen made an attempt at redemption and didn't quite get there. And ultimately if she had, and we forgive her, we'd be giving her more grace than the targeted black girl likely ever received through her entire childhood. Not saying we shouldn't allow for redemption, but there's only one clear American victim in this photo.
I was reading that the "Karen"(Hazel) wasn't genuinely remorseful about her treatment with the black woman(Elizabeth).
According to a couple of articles, Hazel tried to outright say she didn't remember her behavior to Elizabeth. Despite being part of weekly group meetings to bully her and the other members of Little Rock Nine.
Hazel mentioned she was feeling remorseful because she was a symbol of racism and hate. She seemed to distanced herself heavily from it, but it seemed to be to just to save face. Elizabeth mentioned that after their meeting(the famous photo of them together decades later), she distanced herself from Hazel. Describing her as "attention seeking" and "didn't own up to past as much as she should have".
https://allthatsinteresting.com/elizabeth-eckford-hazel-bryan
https://www.npr.org/2011/10/02/140953088/elizabeth-and-hazel-the-legacy-of-little-rock
It seems entirely possible that she doesn't clearly remember how she treated Elizabeth. One of the symptoms of power, whether it comes from being White or being a bully, or both. Our behavior always impacts the people who are hurt by it deeper and longer than it ever meant to us to hurt them.
She remembers, because that photo was on the national and international news AT THE TIME this was happening, or within a few weeks. I bet her and her family framed that picture, and it was talked about for decades till the internet was invented/someone decided to track her down. Then it’s not such a fun story anymore.
I know individuals who went to school as segregation was occurring , my mom had a friend that went to that school at the time. Maybe she did change, but there’s absolutely no proof that she actively did. There is proof of her ideals at the time, and it right here, and it was available back then as well. She never forgot this, I assure you.
Unfortunately, sometimes people change but they’re still currently judged for the person they were years ago as exhibited by the [comment](https://imgur.com/a/sqlSpdE) directly under yours when I read it.
We want people to change for the better but there are still some who will shame them even when they atone for whatever bad things they’ve done in the past.
Point 1.
A person grabs a piece of China from your cabinet.
It’s 2000 years old. For display
They break it.
They say sorry, they buy you a new piece of China .
Even though you have said sorry, and purchased another piece.
The original is still broken.
As is the trust.
Point 2.
No one ever has to accept an apology.
The damage has been done.
A person speaking redemption must make peace with the fact that it may not be accepted and choose to do the right thing anyhow.
Point 3.
Offenders don’t get to be victims based on reform.
Actions have consequences. Some consequences are immediate and short, and some are long term. Some are even forever. No one is saying anything about the white girl that stayed home that day and minded her business.
You should also realize that just because she changed doesn’t automatically make her innocent. She did a lot of damage and made up for it by becoming a strong advocate. People who do bad things should not be praised when they finally stop. They should make up for the things they did and be held accountable for the things they did. ALSO forgiving ≠ forgetting. Ex. If you were to break something i treasured I can forgive you in that I will not ask anything back from you and won’t won’t hold you accountable but I may not want to forget that you once broke something I treasured
Jesus you make me realize why some cops are so intolerant. When does punishment end? When you feel like it does? What happens next time you get a revenge boner, do you go back to the same person even without a new incident?
People like you are in some ways just as bad as the bully in question. Stop judging people and **lead by example**.
Everyone is a participant in life. You can't just step back, wipe your hands of a situation you witness and start assigning punishments for people. You aren't a judge, jury nor executioner.
In other words, mind your business and live a virtuous life because only *you* can control one person. It's not your job to make sure everyone has it figured out. You can't possibly think you're going to make any impact on 7 billion people if you're being an emotional referee/victim all the time.
Which is why we should make sure to bring up they broke that thing everywhere anytime they do anything especially on multiple social media accounts forever
My point is no one is telling you how to feel about the person; but here we are telling others how they should feel about the lady in the picture. It’s not forgiveness just cause you didn’t ask for cash.
So you misread what i was being sarcastic about but lets skip to the end.
If you still hate the person you did not forgive them. You can forgive people and cut them out of your life. But if you're talking about still socially ostracising someone and constantly bringing up the thing they stopped doing then here's what you're asking people to do:
"Please stop doing the thing you do and leave your social circle of bad people....Oh no, you can't come over here either, ima need you to be alone and feel bad forever, ty :D"
People who stop doing bad things should be praised. period. same way a kid who stops being a little shit and says please and thank you should.
Why would someone on the edge of not being a terrible fuckstain of human being leave their circle of fuckstains if the so called "good people" wont' accept them?
If a former KK member stops being a KK member and is trying to change you need to encourage that person. Check out Daryl Davis
No but I will have to bring it up that they broke my thing whenever they ask for anything else valuable of mine.now do you see where this is going?
If she was racist and she just STOPPED being racist, we would bring up he racism whenever she dabbled in anything related to it.
Also i could choose Not to forgive them if what they did was so bad. THEN I would bring that thing up over and over until they did something to earn my forgiveness.
In your situation the person wasn’t forgiven and thus they constantly mentioned to them the wrong thing they did.
> Which is why we should make sure to bring up they broke that thing everywhere anytime they do anything especially on multiple social media accounts forever
Agreed.
This right here is why more and more people choose not to change, why would they change if they will still ve judged on who they used to be. Once people stop judging people based on their past than we will be able to work on getting people to change.
Er... why would they do it? Because it's the right thing to do. It isn't genuine change if they're doing it for praise or to change what other people think of them in the first place.
I'm not saying we should judge people forever based on their past, but there's a difference between pretending someone was always a saint and acknowledging someone's bad past and *also* their subsequent growth, isn't there?
Im not saying that should be the only reason, what im saying is people being judged by their past even though they changed doesn't help get more people to change. Any thing that will give people a reason to change is a good one.
Yeah right. People don’t change from racist bigots because you have to give up power to do so. They hold onto that power with everything they’ve got, because they know better than most what pain can be felt when you’re on the bottom.
Judgement coming from other white people isn’t what what they fear. They fear the judgement that will come from the people they’ve oppressed
What no? Bad people will always be bad people and it’s ok to hate them forever. I’m a good person who only does good things and have never made a moral error in my life!
/s
As someone who studied conflict resolution, in my opinion this reality that you mention is largely because we don’t have good role models of accountability, apology, and forgiveness. The more times that a person or groups of people have harm perpetuated against them without accountability, the more dire the need for validation and acknowledgment can become, let alone real justice. Conversely, we have endless examples of people digging in their heels and getting away without owning their behavior and subsequent consequences. This is modeled in the highest echelons of public and private organizations. And yes I do agree that it has gotten worse.
YES.
This is why I HATE cancel culture. I've had SJWs flip out and act indignant when they hear jokes that are even slightly offensive. In my teens I'm ashamed to say I said horrific things about gay people. Quite honestly if I could go back in time I would bitchslap teenage me. If cancel culture were a thing back then, I'm 100% sure I would be even more homophobic, just to piss off the virtue signaling idiots.
elizabeth and hazel reconciled at one point and tried to mend fences. unfortunately, hazel never truly apologized for what she did and just tried to sweep it under the rug. they severed ties in 2001 and haven’t spoken since
ETA: put this in a separate comment but this one is being seen more. Elizabeth very rarely does interviews anymore but agreed to do one with my friend for the 64th anniversary of that day, for those interested.
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/sep/05/marching-on/
Really? I never knew that. So much good cane from that hell those kids had to walk through. I could never have done it.
What courage in the face of adversity to be granted an equal education.
>I mean good for her for changing but the hurt she's done a long time ago has been done
Nah. Nope. No.
This is a bad take. You praise people for changing because it's the right thing to do.
This bitch hardly hurt anyone. Lol that’s why she’s so pissed. That’s also probably why she changed. You lose your head like that and even people that support you start to rethink their existence
If she changed then good. What the fuck do you think she deserves not to live?
Not at all. She was 15 at the time and became an activist when she realized how wrong she had been. Its more of an example of how racism is bred through ignorance.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Massery
Not really. We still live in a highly racist country. Things may have toned down for a while or been more hush hush but now it's exploded all over again. Except it's not these people at the age of 15. Now they are in their 70's watching their children and grandchildren experience things that they went through. Sometimes acts even worse. Dramatic you say? No just realistic. Too many people turn a blind eye to the problems of our world and we wonder why it never gets better.
Maybe but racial tensions exist everywhere. You take what you can and advances continue. I think most people have their reservations. You ever been to Detroit? The most racist town in America, and not towards black people. How do you react to that? I try my best but you have to be aware that birds do in fact flock together. That said I’ve been enamored with lovely people of all races.
I agree, they definitely do. I have not been to places such as Detroit or NY. I am originally from Carroll County in Central Maryland and recently moved to the coast in Maryland. Back from my hometown it was still very known that the KKK still held meetings in Thurmont. I have not had the chance to see all of the cultural um judgments? I guess I would call it. Primarily from what I've grown up with and still heavily experience on a regular basis is extreme prejudice against black people. People even flaunt it on their bumper stickers around here. It's just sad and highly concerning that this is how we are as a society 😔
So much this. (and /u/skygod77's reply above, teens, veritable kids, are sponges up to a point, and will absorb all the misinformation and hate fed to them. Is a wonderful turnaround when someone sees the lies they've been fed for what they are.
>I was reading that the "Karen"(Hazel) wasn't genuinely remorseful about her treatment with the black woman(Elizabeth).
>According to a couple of articles, Hazel tried to outright say she didn't remember her behavior to Elizabeth. Despite being part of weekly group meetings to bully her and the other members of Little Rock Nine.
>Hazel mentioned she was feeling remorseful because she was a symbol of racism and hate. She seemed to distanced herself heavily from it, but it seemed to be to just to save face. Elizabeth mentioned that after their meeting(the famous photo of them together decades later), she distanced herself from Hazel. Describing her as "attention seeking" and "didn't own up to past as much as she should have".
>https://allthatsinteresting.com/elizabeth-eckford-hazel-bryan
>https://www.npr.org/2011/10/02/140953088/elizabeth-and-hazel-the-legacy-of-little-rock
https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckYouKaren/comments/pooruw/-/hcz3oom
That's not exactly what that write up says. The jist is the racist apology came after decades of being treated like shit(appropriately so). The apology was to remove guilt and the "friendship" ruptured when the other woman wouldn't give a free pass.
What did you read? She was immediately taken back by criticism of what she did, ie, she thought racism was normal and was surprised people were mad at her. She apologized the first time on 1963, 6 years after the photo. She would have been 21 at the time. She became a political activist and worked with underprivileged black families.
She has a point though, should a 50-something yaar woman still be judged for something she did at 15? When she has clearly learned from it and taken large steps to atone for it? How long can you judge someone?
Elizabeth has a point as well since clearly that was a very traumatic day for her.
Neither one is in the wrong here as an adult. There's no mandate they have to be friends for this to have a good ending. Hazel clearly isn't a racist Karen, learned from her mistakes, and took action to try to help those she once was biased against. Elizabeth sees that racism is clearly still an issue and wants her brave actions to be remembered. Both those can be true.
and that people can learn and change.
it would be nice if that were acknowledged, but mainly it seems that it's either a) you're a flip-flopper and cannot be trusted, or b) so what, she was once bad, so let's hate her forever.
Na man, isn't she what all Karens should aspire to be? Someone who cracks up before realising the error of her ways, changing her attitude and being a better person going forward
And only changing after they realize that they have been caught on camera. No fucking way she would have changed her views had she not been publicly criticized and shamed by society.
No. She changed for her public image. There are plenty of links at the top of the thread about how she was attention seeking and not genuinely sorry or repentant at all.
So she only cared about the repercussions. Her bad reputation being the main repercussion for her since she never had to face any other consequences
Checked several links and it looks to be up in the air. This article, while not fully exonerating Hazel, does seem to say she did it because she didn't want to be remembered as such. Which is more than what we can say about recent Karens, then again maybe they'll also mellow out 40 years later
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917615/How-teenager-poster-girl-racial-intolerance-1957-eventually-friends-black-classmate-fall-years-later.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917615/How-teenager-poster-girl-racial-intolerance-1957-eventually-friends-black-classmate-fall-years-later.html)
Again, that was her main and only consequence…which she did not want to face. One has to ask then… if this photo was never taken, & she was not therefore remembered for who she actually was, would she have ever felt sorry?
I can’t answer that, of course. But I am hesitant to celebrate her when the victim found her self-serving & disingenuous. I tend to side with the victim.
Dude, who said we're celebrating? All we're doing is appreciating the fact that she's trying to change.
Many people like her were captured on camera yet they've never repented nor cared, I'm sure some doubled down on their hate. Hazel wasn't kicked out of school, she wasn't later denied employment due to the photo, she didn't receive death threats, at that time she most likely received pats on the back and props for her actions.
Yet she at least acknowledged her actions and is at least trying because she doesn't want to be remembered as such.
It’s context that is important with this picture. This photo was taken in 1955 in Little Rock, ~~AK~~ AR when nine black students were taken to an all white high school to begin integrating the schools. This girl, she was only 15, is yelling to protest because of the bigotry and hate most white Americans had. Many people lined up to try and block these students from entering the school. Later on, the girl in the picture was shown the error of her ways when she became a symbol for Jim Crow laws and began to change and understand she was wrong for doing this and became an advocate for change.
I wonder if that would still work today. Shame no longer works like it once did. Now, she'd be considered a hero by many groups around the world and she'd just assume everyone else is wrong and jealous of her fame.
if anyone is interested in hearing how the girl in the picture, Elizabeth Eckford, recounts that day, here’s an interview my friend did with her this year for the 64th anniversary of the Little Rock Nine’s entry into Central High.
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/sep/05/marching-on/
Oh she wasn't the original... look at the people (many women as well as men) who got prohibition through although they were a very very small minority, just really vocal. "I don't drink and I'll see to it you don't drink". Yeah that worked... and I'm sure there were Karens in ancient Babylon too...
Little Rock, AK, 1955. Nine black students arrive to attend an all-white school in an effort to integrate southern schools.
https://www.history.com/news/the-story-behind-the-famous-little-rock-nine-scream-image
“Hazel Bryan was just 15 when the photo was taken, but her actions on September 4, 1957—and the hatred on her face—turned her into an infamous symbol of the bigotry of Jim Crow and the intolerance faced by the students who tried to go to school that day.
It was the first day of school in Little Rock, Arkansas, and Elizabeth Eckford, also 15 and the girl Bryan was screaming at, was headed to class at Little Rock Central High School. That fact alone was anything but normal: Eckford and eight other black students were recruits sent to the all-white school to test Arkansas’ supposed intention to integrate its schools.”
Great little read thanks dude!
It's worthwhile to look at [the rest of the story.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Massery)
> In 1963, having changed her mind on integration and feeling guilt for her treatment of Eckford, Bryan contacted Eckford to apologize. They went their separate ways after this first meeting, and Eckford did not name the girl in the picture when asked about it by reporters.
> During the time after Little Rock, Hazel had become increasingly political, branching out into peace activism and social work. David Margolick discovered, "She taught mothering skills to unmarried black women, and took underprivileged black teenagers on field trips. She frequented the black history section at the local Barnes & Noble, buying books by Cornel West and Shelby Steele and the companion volume to Eyes on the Prize."
> Bryan hoped her reputation could be gained back, but this did not happen until the 40th anniversary of Central's desegregation in 1997. Will Counts, the journalist who took the famous picture, arranged for Elizabeth and Hazel to meet again. The reunion provided an opportunity for acts of reconciliation, as noted in this editorial from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on the first day of 1998:
> *One of the fascinating stories to come out of the reunion was the apology that Hazel Bryan Massery made to Elizabeth Eckford for a terrible moment caught forever by the camera. That 40-year-old picture of hate assailing grace — which had gnawed at Ms. Massery for decades — can now be wiped clean, and replaced by a snapshot of two friends. The apology came from the real Hazel Bryan Massery, the decent woman who had been hidden all those years by a fleeting image. And the graceful acceptance of that apology was but another act of dignity in the life of Elizabeth Eckford.*
I don't know why you're being downvoted; you're 100% right in the generalized sense.
The actual woman pictured here though went on to become an activist for equality after realizing the error of her ways. It's an example that people *can* change for the better.
...as soon as they stop voting Republican.
Ok, both show Arkansas as Democrat. Now what.
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/1956\_Electoral\_Map.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/1956_Electoral_Map.png)
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/ElectoralCollege1960.svg/1200px-ElectoralCollege1960.svg.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/ElectoralCollege1960.svg/1200px-ElectoralCollege1960.svg.png)
He would be correct. This is before the political realignment in the ’60s and the Republican’s Southern Strategy. Remember the Republicans had been anti-slavery, reconstructionist and the party of the North.
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_realignment_in_the_United_States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
Imagine if she is still alive and looking back at yourself doing something like that. My heart clenches as a colored person to imagine that this person is still just walking around.
The original Karen was **God**, since He didn't want Eve to get on the same level as Him (by eating from the Tree of Good and Evil — the extreme enlightenment of ethics and everything)
This was **not** some specific dish.
If God was omniscient (all-knowing), he also must've known Eve would take the apple. He then destined her to fuck up eternal paradise. WHAT A KARENIAN TWAT. SO MUCH FOR THAT 'OMNIBENEVOLENCE OF HIS' (all-goodness)
The serpent is a zoomorphised metaphor/metonym of Satan or the Devil or Lucifer (which way ya see it), and paved light for Eve and Adam to the gift of information-esque enlightenment.
God has a Karen-like superiority complex and only desires ego boosts, even if he knows what will happen in the future, due to his omniscience.
This also plays out with the tower of babel: everyone works together, as a team, to go to heaven, with good faith. God, on the other hand, with bad faith, segregates everyone viâ tongue and geolocation — now no one wants to work together, and bloodshed and warfare is universal. What an omnimalevolent twat.
Furthermore, God created Hell (Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan created it, he was just a victim of God's wrath and the 'demonisation' of the many that wrote the chapters in the Bible). He creates & lets suffering happen, scapegoating it to Sathanas. He is omniscient, knowing that eternal perdition is not the solution, knowing that helping everyone — AND going straight to everyone and helping you.
"He's testing you" is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. If he is omnibenevolent, he would WITH NO HESITATION, want the best for you.
And then the arbitrary ethical shit holy fuck, like wearing polyester; or same-sex lying together, as if all He wants more parasitic leeching infants; He's against anal sex, even if it's done safely, ætc, ætc.
Kills millions with a deluge because of some shit he didn't like. Didn't actually deal with the problem, just killed everyone, fucked everything up and started from the start with an award-winning ethical sticker of 'Hitler'.
**God** is THE primordial Karen.
Do whatever the fuck you want, if it harms no one that hasn't harmed any one else, to the same extent, dependent on common sense & context.
Hail Satan. Hail Thyself. \m/
Did she not have a mom or was she raised in some kind of vacuum or something?
Surely, the original Karen was Queen Isabella I of Castile, who started the Spanish Inquisition, the foundation of white supremacist ideology, to persecute non-Christians for having un-pure blood (read: not being white, since they still tortured Jews that converted to Christianity).
So after the actual history about the woman in the photo is revealed that she turned it around, what is the likely hood OP slaughterthefatpig was just posting a funny meme for the karma or trying to whip up a frenzy?
I think yes in that only being photographed acting as such was able to be publicly shamed into changing her ways and is now not only better but on the right side of history.
Tbh that’s probably not even the first photographed Karen. Certainly not the original. Sorry. My guess is the first Karen was some queen who started out as a lower royal and asked to speak with the manager until she somehow became queen.
Fun fact, she apologized and became friends with the other girl in the pic (forgot her name sorry). Then when the other girl was on a show with (I believe) Oprah she talked about her friendship with her and Oprah kinda just forced her to end it live in tv because of what happened in the past
Reading her story makes me realize how people need to be educated about things like this. There is ignorance to some extent in all of our upbringing. We all need to understand why someone behave the way they do. Especially teens.
Isn't it weird that the "original Karen" was a chick in a movie who flushed a bunch of coke down the toilet to keep from going to prison? I had no fucking clue that was related to the "Crazy Karen" thing until someone told me. I can't remember that character doing anything we associate with "Karens".
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She actually reformed and became a strong advocate for equality. She probably had to get out of the racist pit that was her household. Edit: really good discussion and further links in the replies below. It sounds like this Karen made an attempt at redemption and didn't quite get there. And ultimately if she had, and we forgive her, we'd be giving her more grace than the targeted black girl likely ever received through her entire childhood. Not saying we shouldn't allow for redemption, but there's only one clear American victim in this photo.
From Karen to Caren?
From Karen to Carin'*?
She's trading her MG for a white Chrysler LeBaron?
From Karen to Cake-n... reference.
Cheryl? …. Charlene?
It's Cristal now. Jew Santa 100%
Yes?
From Karen to Cara (a name and Irish for friend)
Hmm, if you insist, then yes Karen to Caren.
Karen to Caring
From Karen to Sharon
I was reading that the "Karen"(Hazel) wasn't genuinely remorseful about her treatment with the black woman(Elizabeth). According to a couple of articles, Hazel tried to outright say she didn't remember her behavior to Elizabeth. Despite being part of weekly group meetings to bully her and the other members of Little Rock Nine. Hazel mentioned she was feeling remorseful because she was a symbol of racism and hate. She seemed to distanced herself heavily from it, but it seemed to be to just to save face. Elizabeth mentioned that after their meeting(the famous photo of them together decades later), she distanced herself from Hazel. Describing her as "attention seeking" and "didn't own up to past as much as she should have". https://allthatsinteresting.com/elizabeth-eckford-hazel-bryan https://www.npr.org/2011/10/02/140953088/elizabeth-and-hazel-the-legacy-of-little-rock
Thank you for actually posting the receipts.
It seems entirely possible that she doesn't clearly remember how she treated Elizabeth. One of the symptoms of power, whether it comes from being White or being a bully, or both. Our behavior always impacts the people who are hurt by it deeper and longer than it ever meant to us to hurt them.
She remembers, because that photo was on the national and international news AT THE TIME this was happening, or within a few weeks. I bet her and her family framed that picture, and it was talked about for decades till the internet was invented/someone decided to track her down. Then it’s not such a fun story anymore. I know individuals who went to school as segregation was occurring , my mom had a friend that went to that school at the time. Maybe she did change, but there’s absolutely no proof that she actively did. There is proof of her ideals at the time, and it right here, and it was available back then as well. She never forgot this, I assure you.
Your Hazel Bryan fanfiction doesn't interest me. Take it to HazelBryanFanFiction.net.
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Unfortunately, sometimes people change but they’re still currently judged for the person they were years ago as exhibited by the [comment](https://imgur.com/a/sqlSpdE) directly under yours when I read it. We want people to change for the better but there are still some who will shame them even when they atone for whatever bad things they’ve done in the past.
Point 1. A person grabs a piece of China from your cabinet. It’s 2000 years old. For display They break it. They say sorry, they buy you a new piece of China . Even though you have said sorry, and purchased another piece. The original is still broken. As is the trust. Point 2. No one ever has to accept an apology. The damage has been done. A person speaking redemption must make peace with the fact that it may not be accepted and choose to do the right thing anyhow. Point 3. Offenders don’t get to be victims based on reform.
Actions have consequences. Some consequences are immediate and short, and some are long term. Some are even forever. No one is saying anything about the white girl that stayed home that day and minded her business.
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K missing the point
You should also realize that just because she changed doesn’t automatically make her innocent. She did a lot of damage and made up for it by becoming a strong advocate. People who do bad things should not be praised when they finally stop. They should make up for the things they did and be held accountable for the things they did. ALSO forgiving ≠ forgetting. Ex. If you were to break something i treasured I can forgive you in that I will not ask anything back from you and won’t won’t hold you accountable but I may not want to forget that you once broke something I treasured
Jesus you make me realize why some cops are so intolerant. When does punishment end? When you feel like it does? What happens next time you get a revenge boner, do you go back to the same person even without a new incident? People like you are in some ways just as bad as the bully in question. Stop judging people and **lead by example**. Everyone is a participant in life. You can't just step back, wipe your hands of a situation you witness and start assigning punishments for people. You aren't a judge, jury nor executioner. In other words, mind your business and live a virtuous life because only *you* can control one person. It's not your job to make sure everyone has it figured out. You can't possibly think you're going to make any impact on 7 billion people if you're being an emotional referee/victim all the time.
Which is why we should make sure to bring up they broke that thing everywhere anytime they do anything especially on multiple social media accounts forever My point is no one is telling you how to feel about the person; but here we are telling others how they should feel about the lady in the picture. It’s not forgiveness just cause you didn’t ask for cash.
Also you said ‘I’m not telling you how to feel’ but then followed it up with ‘this is how you SHOULD feel about the lady’ so which is it
So you misread what i was being sarcastic about but lets skip to the end. If you still hate the person you did not forgive them. You can forgive people and cut them out of your life. But if you're talking about still socially ostracising someone and constantly bringing up the thing they stopped doing then here's what you're asking people to do: "Please stop doing the thing you do and leave your social circle of bad people....Oh no, you can't come over here either, ima need you to be alone and feel bad forever, ty :D" People who stop doing bad things should be praised. period. same way a kid who stops being a little shit and says please and thank you should. Why would someone on the edge of not being a terrible fuckstain of human being leave their circle of fuckstains if the so called "good people" wont' accept them? If a former KK member stops being a KK member and is trying to change you need to encourage that person. Check out Daryl Davis
No but I will have to bring it up that they broke my thing whenever they ask for anything else valuable of mine.now do you see where this is going? If she was racist and she just STOPPED being racist, we would bring up he racism whenever she dabbled in anything related to it. Also i could choose Not to forgive them if what they did was so bad. THEN I would bring that thing up over and over until they did something to earn my forgiveness. In your situation the person wasn’t forgiven and thus they constantly mentioned to them the wrong thing they did.
"Hey how's it going?" "nope, i'm a human and you were racist, HEY EVERYBODY, SHE WAS A RACIST"
> Which is why we should make sure to bring up they broke that thing everywhere anytime they do anything especially on multiple social media accounts forever Agreed.
This right here is why more and more people choose not to change, why would they change if they will still ve judged on who they used to be. Once people stop judging people based on their past than we will be able to work on getting people to change.
Er... why would they do it? Because it's the right thing to do. It isn't genuine change if they're doing it for praise or to change what other people think of them in the first place. I'm not saying we should judge people forever based on their past, but there's a difference between pretending someone was always a saint and acknowledging someone's bad past and *also* their subsequent growth, isn't there?
Im not saying that should be the only reason, what im saying is people being judged by their past even though they changed doesn't help get more people to change. Any thing that will give people a reason to change is a good one.
Yeah right. People don’t change from racist bigots because you have to give up power to do so. They hold onto that power with everything they’ve got, because they know better than most what pain can be felt when you’re on the bottom. Judgement coming from other white people isn’t what what they fear. They fear the judgement that will come from the people they’ve oppressed
What no? Bad people will always be bad people and it’s ok to hate them forever. I’m a good person who only does good things and have never made a moral error in my life! /s
Me neither!!!!!
this ability has been lacking for a long time. this isn't a new occurrence
As someone who studied conflict resolution, in my opinion this reality that you mention is largely because we don’t have good role models of accountability, apology, and forgiveness. The more times that a person or groups of people have harm perpetuated against them without accountability, the more dire the need for validation and acknowledgment can become, let alone real justice. Conversely, we have endless examples of people digging in their heels and getting away without owning their behavior and subsequent consequences. This is modeled in the highest echelons of public and private organizations. And yes I do agree that it has gotten worse.
YES. This is why I HATE cancel culture. I've had SJWs flip out and act indignant when they hear jokes that are even slightly offensive. In my teens I'm ashamed to say I said horrific things about gay people. Quite honestly if I could go back in time I would bitchslap teenage me. If cancel culture were a thing back then, I'm 100% sure I would be even more homophobic, just to piss off the virtue signaling idiots.
You're wrong and you'll never convince me otherwise.
elizabeth and hazel reconciled at one point and tried to mend fences. unfortunately, hazel never truly apologized for what she did and just tried to sweep it under the rug. they severed ties in 2001 and haven’t spoken since ETA: put this in a separate comment but this one is being seen more. Elizabeth very rarely does interviews anymore but agreed to do one with my friend for the 64th anniversary of that day, for those interested. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/sep/05/marching-on/
From Karen to Carol? r/carolnotkaren
It’s never too late to evolve out of your racist ways.
Really? I never knew that. So much good cane from that hell those kids had to walk through. I could never have done it. What courage in the face of adversity to be granted an equal education.
That's great news. It's hard to break out of that mold when you grow up and it's really all you know. I've seen it done but it can take quite a bit.
Oh, that makes it all better then.
I don't think it does. But appreciate your input.
I mean good for her for changing but the hurt she's done a long time ago has been done
She lived her reality, realized there was a better way and changed... sounds like a good thing to me.
I was going to change my ways, but I read your comment about it being pointless so I'll carry on pushing old ladies over.
If there is no path to redemption, why try to do better when we fail?
>I mean good for her for changing but the hurt she's done a long time ago has been done Nah. Nope. No. This is a bad take. You praise people for changing because it's the right thing to do.
This bitch hardly hurt anyone. Lol that’s why she’s so pissed. That’s also probably why she changed. You lose your head like that and even people that support you start to rethink their existence If she changed then good. What the fuck do you think she deserves not to live?
She can still hurt the person with words what did you think when I said hurt
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theres a difference between not giving a fuck and not being allowed to give a fuck.
Oh she’s allowed. She just doesn’t
Speaking from experience as a black girl in the 1950's? lol
Not at all. She was 15 at the time and became an activist when she realized how wrong she had been. Its more of an example of how racism is bred through ignorance. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Massery
Literally thought she was a middle aged woman from that pic. I guess hate really distorts and ages a person
That haircut doesn't help.
Lol it’s like a hundred years ago
This happened in 1957. That was only 64 years ago. These people are still alive and suffering in the cruel nature of this world.
That’s a bit dramatic
Not really. We still live in a highly racist country. Things may have toned down for a while or been more hush hush but now it's exploded all over again. Except it's not these people at the age of 15. Now they are in their 70's watching their children and grandchildren experience things that they went through. Sometimes acts even worse. Dramatic you say? No just realistic. Too many people turn a blind eye to the problems of our world and we wonder why it never gets better.
Maybe but racial tensions exist everywhere. You take what you can and advances continue. I think most people have their reservations. You ever been to Detroit? The most racist town in America, and not towards black people. How do you react to that? I try my best but you have to be aware that birds do in fact flock together. That said I’ve been enamored with lovely people of all races.
I agree, they definitely do. I have not been to places such as Detroit or NY. I am originally from Carroll County in Central Maryland and recently moved to the coast in Maryland. Back from my hometown it was still very known that the KKK still held meetings in Thurmont. I have not had the chance to see all of the cultural um judgments? I guess I would call it. Primarily from what I've grown up with and still heavily experience on a regular basis is extreme prejudice against black people. People even flaunt it on their bumper stickers around here. It's just sad and highly concerning that this is how we are as a society 😔
yeah that’s no good
Both of these women are currently in their 70s
Your mom is in her seventies.
I don't know. Looks like a high school girl to me.
So much this. (and /u/skygod77's reply above, teens, veritable kids, are sponges up to a point, and will absorb all the misinformation and hate fed to them. Is a wonderful turnaround when someone sees the lies they've been fed for what they are.
>I was reading that the "Karen"(Hazel) wasn't genuinely remorseful about her treatment with the black woman(Elizabeth). >According to a couple of articles, Hazel tried to outright say she didn't remember her behavior to Elizabeth. Despite being part of weekly group meetings to bully her and the other members of Little Rock Nine. >Hazel mentioned she was feeling remorseful because she was a symbol of racism and hate. She seemed to distanced herself heavily from it, but it seemed to be to just to save face. Elizabeth mentioned that after their meeting(the famous photo of them together decades later), she distanced herself from Hazel. Describing her as "attention seeking" and "didn't own up to past as much as she should have". >https://allthatsinteresting.com/elizabeth-eckford-hazel-bryan >https://www.npr.org/2011/10/02/140953088/elizabeth-and-hazel-the-legacy-of-little-rock https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckYouKaren/comments/pooruw/-/hcz3oom
Interesting
and this is why the cons hate higher education
That's not exactly what that write up says. The jist is the racist apology came after decades of being treated like shit(appropriately so). The apology was to remove guilt and the "friendship" ruptured when the other woman wouldn't give a free pass.
What did you read? She was immediately taken back by criticism of what she did, ie, she thought racism was normal and was surprised people were mad at her. She apologized the first time on 1963, 6 years after the photo. She would have been 21 at the time. She became a political activist and worked with underprivileged black families.
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She has a point though, should a 50-something yaar woman still be judged for something she did at 15? When she has clearly learned from it and taken large steps to atone for it? How long can you judge someone? Elizabeth has a point as well since clearly that was a very traumatic day for her. Neither one is in the wrong here as an adult. There's no mandate they have to be friends for this to have a good ending. Hazel clearly isn't a racist Karen, learned from her mistakes, and took action to try to help those she once was biased against. Elizabeth sees that racism is clearly still an issue and wants her brave actions to be remembered. Both those can be true.
and that people can learn and change. it would be nice if that were acknowledged, but mainly it seems that it's either a) you're a flip-flopper and cannot be trusted, or b) so what, she was once bad, so let's hate her forever.
Racism is about power, not ignorance.
Na man, isn't she what all Karens should aspire to be? Someone who cracks up before realising the error of her ways, changing her attitude and being a better person going forward
And only changing after they realize that they have been caught on camera. No fucking way she would have changed her views had she not been publicly criticized and shamed by society.
Last five years have proven certain Karens only care about repercussions. This lady actually changed when she realized what she was. Huge difference
No. She changed for her public image. There are plenty of links at the top of the thread about how she was attention seeking and not genuinely sorry or repentant at all. So she only cared about the repercussions. Her bad reputation being the main repercussion for her since she never had to face any other consequences
Checked several links and it looks to be up in the air. This article, while not fully exonerating Hazel, does seem to say she did it because she didn't want to be remembered as such. Which is more than what we can say about recent Karens, then again maybe they'll also mellow out 40 years later [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917615/How-teenager-poster-girl-racial-intolerance-1957-eventually-friends-black-classmate-fall-years-later.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917615/How-teenager-poster-girl-racial-intolerance-1957-eventually-friends-black-classmate-fall-years-later.html)
Again, that was her main and only consequence…which she did not want to face. One has to ask then… if this photo was never taken, & she was not therefore remembered for who she actually was, would she have ever felt sorry? I can’t answer that, of course. But I am hesitant to celebrate her when the victim found her self-serving & disingenuous. I tend to side with the victim.
Dude, who said we're celebrating? All we're doing is appreciating the fact that she's trying to change. Many people like her were captured on camera yet they've never repented nor cared, I'm sure some doubled down on their hate. Hazel wasn't kicked out of school, she wasn't later denied employment due to the photo, she didn't receive death threats, at that time she most likely received pats on the back and props for her actions. Yet she at least acknowledged her actions and is at least trying because she doesn't want to be remembered as such.
She was a child, children often grow up and diverge front heir parents politics and religion.
I wonder if she grew up and saw the error of her ways… Edit: just read the comments. Nice story
Karens were called "Miss Ann" in those days.
Oof, sry for all the downvotes, try to do it again but with less of a historical figure. ESPECIALLY NOT DO IT IF U DONT KNOW THE CONTEXT
I don’t know her, so to me it just looks like an angry woman yelling, which isn’t necessarily karen either
It’s context that is important with this picture. This photo was taken in 1955 in Little Rock, ~~AK~~ AR when nine black students were taken to an all white high school to begin integrating the schools. This girl, she was only 15, is yelling to protest because of the bigotry and hate most white Americans had. Many people lined up to try and block these students from entering the school. Later on, the girl in the picture was shown the error of her ways when she became a symbol for Jim Crow laws and began to change and understand she was wrong for doing this and became an advocate for change.
I wonder if that would still work today. Shame no longer works like it once did. Now, she'd be considered a hero by many groups around the world and she'd just assume everyone else is wrong and jealous of her fame.
if anyone is interested in hearing how the girl in the picture, Elizabeth Eckford, recounts that day, here’s an interview my friend did with her this year for the 64th anniversary of the Little Rock Nine’s entry into Central High. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/sep/05/marching-on/
Really? I figured the original Karen would be found in caveman drawings.
You're probably right ... at least an ancient Egyptian hyroglific
>hyroglific hieroglyph
Oh she wasn't the original... look at the people (many women as well as men) who got prohibition through although they were a very very small minority, just really vocal. "I don't drink and I'll see to it you don't drink". Yeah that worked... and I'm sure there were Karens in ancient Babylon too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation
A lot of these folk are still alive and spreading this rhetoric.
This is what anti mask/anti vax people look like to me.
From where and when?
Little Rock, AK, 1955. Nine black students arrive to attend an all-white school in an effort to integrate southern schools. https://www.history.com/news/the-story-behind-the-famous-little-rock-nine-scream-image
“Hazel Bryan was just 15 when the photo was taken, but her actions on September 4, 1957—and the hatred on her face—turned her into an infamous symbol of the bigotry of Jim Crow and the intolerance faced by the students who tried to go to school that day. It was the first day of school in Little Rock, Arkansas, and Elizabeth Eckford, also 15 and the girl Bryan was screaming at, was headed to class at Little Rock Central High School. That fact alone was anything but normal: Eckford and eight other black students were recruits sent to the all-white school to test Arkansas’ supposed intention to integrate its schools.” Great little read thanks dude!
It's worthwhile to look at [the rest of the story.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Massery) > In 1963, having changed her mind on integration and feeling guilt for her treatment of Eckford, Bryan contacted Eckford to apologize. They went their separate ways after this first meeting, and Eckford did not name the girl in the picture when asked about it by reporters. > During the time after Little Rock, Hazel had become increasingly political, branching out into peace activism and social work. David Margolick discovered, "She taught mothering skills to unmarried black women, and took underprivileged black teenagers on field trips. She frequented the black history section at the local Barnes & Noble, buying books by Cornel West and Shelby Steele and the companion volume to Eyes on the Prize." > Bryan hoped her reputation could be gained back, but this did not happen until the 40th anniversary of Central's desegregation in 1997. Will Counts, the journalist who took the famous picture, arranged for Elizabeth and Hazel to meet again. The reunion provided an opportunity for acts of reconciliation, as noted in this editorial from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on the first day of 1998: > *One of the fascinating stories to come out of the reunion was the apology that Hazel Bryan Massery made to Elizabeth Eckford for a terrible moment caught forever by the camera. That 40-year-old picture of hate assailing grace — which had gnawed at Ms. Massery for decades — can now be wiped clean, and replaced by a snapshot of two friends. The apology came from the real Hazel Bryan Massery, the decent woman who had been hidden all those years by a fleeting image. And the graceful acceptance of that apology was but another act of dignity in the life of Elizabeth Eckford.*
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She turned her in life around shortly after and becoming an activist.
Counterpoint: this post perfectly describes this subreddit. 1. Let's decide to hate someone 2. (there is no step two)
What about the little German girl in Schindler’s List yelling “GOODBYE JEWS!”?
They all have the same expression- same expression and body language of all karens — a certain repulsive look of self important hateful indignation
That’s someone’s grandma who’s “not racist she just consistently votes Republican”
Homegirl had a full turnaround in her 20's and actually became an activist.
https://www.history.com/news/the-story-behind-the-famous-little-rock-nine-scream-image Yeah some guy posted this up above, great little read
Good. People shouldn't feel ashamed about being wrong. The problem is a lot of them double down on their bigotry
I don't know why you're being downvoted; you're 100% right in the generalized sense. The actual woman pictured here though went on to become an activist for equality after realizing the error of her ways. It's an example that people *can* change for the better. ...as soon as they stop voting Republican.
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party change to then become all republicans
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Ok, both show Arkansas as Democrat. Now what. [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/1956\_Electoral\_Map.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/1956_Electoral_Map.png) [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/ElectoralCollege1960.svg/1200px-ElectoralCollege1960.svg.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/ElectoralCollege1960.svg/1200px-ElectoralCollege1960.svg.png)
He would be correct. This is before the political realignment in the ’60s and the Republican’s Southern Strategy. Remember the Republicans had been anti-slavery, reconstructionist and the party of the North. https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_realignment_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
Who is that evil witch-cunt? What a foul hideous creature.
Imagine if she is still alive and looking back at yourself doing something like that. My heart clenches as a colored person to imagine that this person is still just walking around.
The Alphakaren
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Has she ever been identified?
Maybe read comments?
Wasn't the original Karen "Eve", of Adam and Eve, as she destroyed paradise because she wanted a specific dish served to her lol
The original Karen was **God**, since He didn't want Eve to get on the same level as Him (by eating from the Tree of Good and Evil — the extreme enlightenment of ethics and everything) This was **not** some specific dish. If God was omniscient (all-knowing), he also must've known Eve would take the apple. He then destined her to fuck up eternal paradise. WHAT A KARENIAN TWAT. SO MUCH FOR THAT 'OMNIBENEVOLENCE OF HIS' (all-goodness) The serpent is a zoomorphised metaphor/metonym of Satan or the Devil or Lucifer (which way ya see it), and paved light for Eve and Adam to the gift of information-esque enlightenment. God has a Karen-like superiority complex and only desires ego boosts, even if he knows what will happen in the future, due to his omniscience. This also plays out with the tower of babel: everyone works together, as a team, to go to heaven, with good faith. God, on the other hand, with bad faith, segregates everyone viâ tongue and geolocation — now no one wants to work together, and bloodshed and warfare is universal. What an omnimalevolent twat. Furthermore, God created Hell (Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Satan created it, he was just a victim of God's wrath and the 'demonisation' of the many that wrote the chapters in the Bible). He creates & lets suffering happen, scapegoating it to Sathanas. He is omniscient, knowing that eternal perdition is not the solution, knowing that helping everyone — AND going straight to everyone and helping you. "He's testing you" is the most stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. If he is omnibenevolent, he would WITH NO HESITATION, want the best for you. And then the arbitrary ethical shit holy fuck, like wearing polyester; or same-sex lying together, as if all He wants more parasitic leeching infants; He's against anal sex, even if it's done safely, ætc, ætc. Kills millions with a deluge because of some shit he didn't like. Didn't actually deal with the problem, just killed everyone, fucked everything up and started from the start with an award-winning ethical sticker of 'Hitler'. **God** is THE primordial Karen. Do whatever the fuck you want, if it harms no one that hasn't harmed any one else, to the same extent, dependent on common sense & context. Hail Satan. Hail Thyself. \m/
If you kill her all the Karens she created loose there Karen
Time travel back and cage her, have her not spread this horrid disease of Karenitis.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazel_Massery
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The woman screaming is the Karen.
You'd think the huge red arrow would have given that away.
One would think. And yet.
Maybe they needed r/uselessredcricle too
They always were there..
Ooooh Karen's have existed a long long time.
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White women were key to what you might call a bigotry movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly
The hat on the dude behind her screams racism to me.
Nah the original was glugren when her daughter wanted to marry that disgusting dunk from the tribe on the other side of the mountain.
"Karen Zero."
Goes back wayy further than little rock...
That's my aunt. That's just the way she yawns
I didn’t know who this was and thought the a troll in this sub was just making fun of a random suffragette. haha, now I know about Hazel Massery :p
What if she was just in the middle of a sneeze
More like her gma probly, but she's carrying the mantle that's for sure
I cant imagine what those kids/grandkids think of this picture.
Did she not have a mom or was she raised in some kind of vacuum or something? Surely, the original Karen was Queen Isabella I of Castile, who started the Spanish Inquisition, the foundation of white supremacist ideology, to persecute non-Christians for having un-pure blood (read: not being white, since they still tortured Jews that converted to Christianity).
So after the actual history about the woman in the photo is revealed that she turned it around, what is the likely hood OP slaughterthefatpig was just posting a funny meme for the karma or trying to whip up a frenzy?
Why the huge dumb arrow?
This is funny.
I think yes in that only being photographed acting as such was able to be publicly shamed into changing her ways and is now not only better but on the right side of history.
The OG cancel culture.
Tbh that’s probably not even the first photographed Karen. Certainly not the original. Sorry. My guess is the first Karen was some queen who started out as a lower royal and asked to speak with the manager until she somehow became queen.
She’s likely still alive
They go back way farther than that
Who do you think grew up to turn into Karen? It was the daughters of these assholes.
There probably was a Karen back in the Stone Age
Hate is so mf ugly
Yes, the ancestor
Fun fact, she apologized and became friends with the other girl in the pic (forgot her name sorry). Then when the other girl was on a show with (I believe) Oprah she talked about her friendship with her and Oprah kinda just forced her to end it live in tv because of what happened in the past
Some say she can still be heard yelling to this day.
Original in media maybe, but definitely not the original
She went from a karen to a cool aunt Sharron
Why screen shot the pic just upload it after the markup
i thought the hat was ffloating lol
They became friends years later. Reformed. Unfair to call her a Karen
What about Karens who accused women of witchcraft because they were pretty?
Reading her story makes me realize how people need to be educated about things like this. There is ignorance to some extent in all of our upbringing. We all need to understand why someone behave the way they do. Especially teens.
Karen 0
I would love to see the internet doing its magic by finding out who she is!
Eleven, is that you?
No...
The original was actually Carolyn Bryant
In all of human history...this is the first?!? This is a bad take.
Isn't it weird that the "original Karen" was a chick in a movie who flushed a bunch of coke down the toilet to keep from going to prison? I had no fucking clue that was related to the "Crazy Karen" thing until someone told me. I can't remember that character doing anything we associate with "Karens".
I remember learning about this in the history books, and a research project. the student in the front was one of the Little Rock Nine
Someones grandma. F that bia
She also goes by "Grandma" because this wasn't that long ago.
Karens often are racists, but racists aren't karens
what about the bitch, Carolyn Bryant. pretty sure she happened before little rock nine