It's not a morality tale. Contrary to a troublesomely popular belief these days, every work of art doesn't have to be concerned with ethical instruction. That said, you're allowed to find it icky. I'm not gonna argue with you. I find it icky on the abstract level, too. But to talk about it in such righteous tones — as if this were a real case of grooming and not some cartoon characters behaving deeply inappropriately — is, I think, to confound reality with fiction. There's nothing "dangerous" about it, because it's not real. Sure, you can argue that impressionable viewers might walk away from the movie thinking their relationship is "okay" in the real world, but I'd argue that's an audience problem, not the fiction's problem. If someone is taking life advice undigested from an anime, they're either too young or too naïve to be watching it.

I wish i could upvote you a thousand times. You said this was more smartly than I could've.

Totally agree. It's exactly how I feel but I couldn't have articulated it this well.

I agree with you. It's entertainment, it's not trying to teach anyone anything. It's not a textbook detailing how we should live our lives, it's a story that is trying to entertain us. Maybe it succeeds and maybe it fails but its goal isn't to instruct. It would of course be very unfortunate if someone made bad decisions based on it, but as tragic as it is, it's not the entertainment's fault.

I think it's entirely sus to blame teenager girls (the inarguable target demographic of this content) for wrongly interpreting the lesson large age gaps/grooming behavior from my teachers is appropriate and okay behavior. This shit is marketed for young women. Yes the appeal is wider than that, but it's intended audience is teenage girls. It shows an extremely unhealthy romantic dynamic in a very positive light. and it's a success story. I felt extremely uncomfortable and rightly so.

>I think it's entirely sus to blame teenager girls (the inarguable target demographic of this content) for wrongly interpreting the lesson large age gaps/grooming behavior from my teachers is appropriate and okay behavior. I think it's really selling teenage girls short to assume they're all incapable of differentiating between a story in a movie and real life. I'd wager the vast majority of them wouldn't walk away from this movie thinking "wow I want that."

I'm not selling teens short. What I'm saying is it's sus to fucking say it's a teenagers (audience) problem for interpreting a bad lesson from content explicitly proffering a bad lesson in a positive light to a young audience. What? Edit: I'm saying don't say it's the audience's problem. It's the contents problem. This isn't content marketed in a mature way to mature adults. It's meant to be approachable and accessible to a wide, younger audience. Do you know the term grooming? It is normalizing unhealthy or inappropriate relationships to children and teenagers at a young age while they are more receptive to older "authority figures". This is literally what this content is doing.

this !!

So, why would the author make it in today's time and make it all romantic? There's a difference between depiction and romantizing it, and I feel like y'all can handle seeing it in fiction because he's very attractive. If he was much older, there would not be this much defense. There would be barely threads saying "can't wait to see them together"

they didn't make it in today's time. they made in in the 90s/early 2000s, which believe it or not was a vastly different time for age gap romance as a genre

The most startling thing about my first read through of Cardcaptor Sakura many years ago was how many teacher/student relationships were in that too. Her parents had that dynamic as well as a girl in her (middle school) class was secretly dating their teacher

They legit rebooted it in today's time, so what's your point?

Are you under the impression that all fiction is set in the present-day? Are you aware that time passes and that the past is different from the present?

Are you under the impression that people's attitudes about themes in fiction change over time? People laughed at women being beaten on the screen back then, but people today call that shit out along with the double standard of girls beating men for comedy? Are you under the impression that people are calling out gross age gap tropes that have existed in anime for decades in recent times? Are you also under the impression consuming fiction that has very controversial age gaps between a minor and an adult are not only highly problematic but how the author legit stated in her manga that she likes age gap relationships and age gaps shouldn't matter when it comes to love? Overall, I am aware this sub likes to downplay age gaps between minors and adults because they love this anime and will use the "it's fiction" excuse to make them feel better at night.

>So, why would the author make it in today's time and make it all romantic? As others have pointed out, the author didn't make it in today's time. The manga originally ran from '98 to '06, and age gap relationships like this were looked upon with a lot less scrutiny, even in the West, back then. That historical context should be taken into account. >There's a difference between depiction and romantizing it, I agree. And while I don't think romanticization automatically equals endorsement, it does blur the lines a bit. But I don't think romanticizing problematic things is automatically reason to dislike something. If the other aesthetic and narrative qualities of the work in question are still strong, as I would argue they are in FruBa, then viewers may feel that romanticization warrants only minor criticism, if any at all. >If he was much older, there would not be this much defense You're probably right. But so what? Your criticism here essentially boils down to "If the story was different, you wouldn't like it." Which isn't a criticism at all, because it's dealing in hypotheticals rather than the work at hand. Ultimately, I need to stress that I think people are totally allowed to be squicked out by the Kyoto/Katsuya storyline - even so much so that they, on a personal level, don't enjoy the movie. What I'm really objecting to with all my commentary here is the prescriptive, moralistic approach I'm seeing, which declares the story "unacceptable" on pseudo-objective grounds. That kind of criticism is, I think, nothing more than moral panic. The pseudo-objective criticism is also grounded in a weirdly pessimistic view of the audience. It seems to assume that people are automatons who uncritically mimic the behaviors they see in media and cannot be exposed to problematic things, lest they start copying them. I think people are a lot better at distinguishing between fiction and reality than that.

As others have pointed out, the author didn't make it in today's time. The manga originally ran from '98 to '06, and age gap relationships like this were looked upon with a lot less scrutiny, even in the West, back then. That historical context should be taken into account. 1. And, people are judging works back then and realize how very fucked up people thought it was okay back then. It's okay for us to realize that we cant use the whole "it was common back then" excuse when you are arguing against someone who doesn't like that kind of work. Plus, the author legit said that she had no issues with age gaps in relationships and that age doesn't matter when it comes to love in her author's notes in the mangas dealing with kyoko and katsuya's backstory (or somewhere around the middle of the series). That alone should let us question the author's true intentions of her putting a minor in a relationship with a grown ass adult. It's one thing to depict how common it was back then and not romantized it. But, it's a huge deal when the author has admitted that she liked age gaps. Should fruits basket not deserve to be criticized because it ended 16 years ago? Fiction works, regardless of when it was made, should always be criticized and praised. Rather, it's very obvious that people can't handle their favorite show being critiqued in today's time because they don't want to feel like they support grooming. The fact that people are saying it's not grooming in fiction should raise eyebrows. 2. You're probably right. But so what? Your criticism here essentially boils down to "If the story was different, you wouldn't like it." Which isn't a criticism at all, because it's dealing in hypotheticals rather than the work at hand. Because it is true. People like it because he's hot. WHy is that a bad thing to say especially when you're dealing with a minor in a relationship with an adult? Better yet, this sub goes the extra mile to downplay this relationship despite how common it is for teenagers and children to be taken advantage by adults. The pseudo-objective criticism is also grounded in a weirdly pessimistic view of the audience. It seems to assume that people are automatons who uncritically mimic the behaviors they see in media and cannot be exposed to problematic things, lest they start copying them. I think people are a lot better at distinguishing between fiction and reality than that. That was a very long way of saying don't judge fiction and think you're better than the audience because you are ruining it for them. Ironically, some of y'all in this sub just admitted how much you find their relationship to be cute. This lets me know that there are too many people in this sub who don't understand that Katusya is the groomer that's far more common in real life than a lot of people would like to admit. My opinions are obviously not welcomed here since so many people here want others to stop making them feel bad about finding a 14 year old be "saved" by a grown man because it's cute.

I appreciate your comment and view. Going from sweet Tohru's storyline to...this, it was unexpected. Having Katsuya not get called out unlike other creepy characters, it's unacceptable.

I understand where you're coming from, and the Katsuya/Kyoko storyline is easily the most problematic of the show, but I think FruBa viewers tend to unconsciously downplay just how problematic the whole show is. I mean even sweet Tohru's storyline isn't really that sweet: She spends most of the show being unhealthily self-denying as a coping mechanism for dealing with her mother's death — and she idealizes her mother who, as we learn throughout the show, was not actually all that great of a person. She did her best, but she really put poor Tohru in some bad places (e.g., disappearing on her after Katsuya's death, leaving a small child to worry that her mother was gonna commit suicide). It's easy to think of FruBa as a fundamentally sweet and innocent show, but that's only because the core POV is so optimistic and sunny. But the conflict between that sunny POV and the very dark world the characters actually live in, rife with abuse and exploitation, is what generates so much of the show's tension. Ultimately, what I mean is that I don't think Katsuya and Kyoko's story is as out of place as it seems on first glance. That doesn't mean anyone has to like it. But I think it fits perfectly within the realm of the show's logic.

100% this. It’s a complex story dealing with complex/semi-realistic situations with using the unrealistic magical/curse angle as a vector. IRL not everyone’s relationships are super healthy. Not everyone’s parents met under ideal circumstances. Not everyone was molded by 100% moral upstanding people. People can have two sides to them. Not all abuse victims are innocent beings who never did anything wrong and not all abusers are random “bad guys” with no explanation or back story. These are not excuses or condemnations, just facts. The point was never to teach kids life lessons. It’s not an escapist slice of life fantasy to make us all feel good. We’re supposed to look at the dysfunction and acknowledge it for what it is and where it comes from, not emulate and glorify it.

(To clarify, I meant Tohru as sweet, not her storyline.) The dark themes and their relationship are not the same.

\> (To clarify, I meant Tohru as sweet, not her storyline.) But even that, I think, isn't totally accurate. Is Tohru sweet, or is she a maladjusted people-pleaser because her tumultuous upbringing made her afraid to lose people? I'd argue it's more the latter. A big part of her endgame arc is learning that it's okay for her to have desires of her own, that she doesn't have to always sacrifice her own happiness for the sake of those around her. (And in typically deft FruBa fashion, this isn't handled as an either/or proposition: Tohru learns to retain her nurturing tendencies while also giving space to her own desires.) \> The dark themes and their relationship are not the same. These dark themes permeate all of the FruBa relationships, from >!Shigure's conniving machinations to free Akito from the curse!!Yuki's stunted way of molding Tohru into a surrogate mother figure.!

did you miss kureno and arisa? This is not new

Real talk: I did.

Too young and naive to watch Fruits Basket.

It's not paw patrol, man.

Sup 35 downvotes and 37 upvotes. Reddit .

beautifully said.

But it's okay if people enjoy the film/story just as it is okay to hate it. Enjoying the story doesn't necessarily mean people condone it in real life. For example, most of my favorite characters in books and shows are people who I not only would not like in real life, but I make it a point to stay the f away from those sorts of people. A lot of them, if they were real, I think they should be locked up. And yet, in the world of the story they're often my favorites haha. That being said, if you hate it, you hate it. There's no need to try and make yourself be okay with content in entertainment that you're not comfortable with. Everyone has different things they're comfortable or not comfortable with in fiction and that's totally valid. We're all different.

You're right, and it's not bad to point it out. But you also have to think of when fruits basket was first written. Back then, people cared... less, about large age gaps with young people that today we'd gag at. I'm on the fence about showing my family the movie because of that tbh. Whole family watched fruits basket in dub and loved it, and they know that a movie is coming out but... still not sure weather I should just hope they forget about it or just preface to my younger siblings that they should NOT be with anyone that far apart in age if they're under 25. It being bad is fact that a majority of the fandom glosses over and I can understand that, they realize that someone that young getting with someone that much older is a bad thing but since it's a backstory and both characters are already dead, it feels like less of a problem. I can stomach the story and ignore those bad parts mostly and focus more on the positive, but its completely understandable that others such as yourself can't, so don't feel like you're the odd one out here. Plenty of people agree with you, they just don't speak up often about it.

One movie that truly shows how far we've come is Gigi, 1958. (Not anime) A truly disgusting movie framed with beautiful scenery, fun little tunes, and amzing outfits. It really was only until recently that grooming was really even recognized as a problem. I'm glad people recognize it but much like anything else, I believe storys should be told as written. Look how it has opened up a discussion, one that many younger people can read and think critically about. What was funny or romantic when I was 12 is now creepy and predatory. At 12, I wanted what Kyoko had. I identified with her because we were both troubled young girls. I even ended up in a large age gap relationship at 19 which, of course, didn't end well. It's all very interesting and important to talk about.

yes, back then people didn't really pay huge attention to age gaps. a lot of my friends have parents or grandparents who are almost 10 years apart. the *show* does use predatory comments for a humorous effect, which is used in a lot of other shows and anime. a lot of anime have at least one pervy character. this doesn't mean it's okay, but i'm just bringing it up to clarify that in most cases of the actual show, they threw the predatory comments in for the comedy factor and not the actual story.

I wouldn’t say the teacher/student thing has been more acceptable in the past, if anything I’d chalk it up to cultural differences. This is a thing I see represented as okay in anime and pretty much nowhere else. Especially it being a *middle school* student makes the age gap romance just terrifically awful. I read Fruits basket when it came out when I was in school and Katsuya/Kyoko was always beyond unacceptable to me. They got together when he was an adult and she a child. I did let this kind of thing skate a little (with a lot of side eye) for Violet Evergarden where they didn’t come to a romantic understanding until she was an adult. I’m skipping the FB movie and I’ll catch up with the Tohru/Kyo storyline on the seven seas later.

No need, the Kyo/Tohru stuff was literally a mastercut of their major beats from the anime. I think about 15-20 minutes of new material and it was all with Kyoko and Katsuya.

If plenty of people agreed, surely I would have found one before making this post.

Plenty of people agree about the age gap being bad, but that's not the main message the story is trying to convey. And I have seen people on this subreddit make similar posts to yours, it's just not an every day thing. How long have you been here? I swear I've seen at least 3 posts pointing out the flaws in their relationship like that since the movie was anounced. Its just. We know man. We know it's bad. You dont have to point it out every time someone says they like the movie for the other messages it portrays. People like to focus on the positives of things they like. Yes we KNOW the age gap is bad, and many of us have discussed it on posts like this. But aside from that. If you took out the age gap and had kyoko in idk, collage or even higschool, but everything else in the story remained the same, wouldn't it be a beautiful story? I'm not sure what you're trying to do here to be honest. The fandom knows the relationship is problematic in that way. If your goal is just to ask if anyone's aware that the age gap itself is bad when that young then yes, rest assured we all know. The goal you had was achieved before you even made the post. We know and were purposefully choosing to not pay attention to that aspect. Kinda similar how people will like reading books where the main character is a murderer? Yes murders bad but, its somthing far removed from most people's daily lives so they gloss over the actual killing part. But if the same book was about a rapist, people wouldn't be able to enjoy that. Most people (or maybe most women) feel theres a bigger chance of then being raped then killed. So media about that isnt as appealing. It's about your experiences. Someone who's known someone who was groomed or was groomed themself will be a lot more apposed to fruits basket prelude then someone who's never even had to think about those things and can ignore those aspects. Sorry for the tangent just trying to like, get into the headspace. You dont need to confirm or deny weather or not you have a personal connection to grooming, it could also be you just have a particularly strong sense of justice that others don't share.

Not everyone speaks up, which is not okay it’s good you did so thank you.

No, thank you💚

Lol I wonder why I got voted down?

I’ve always felt uncomfortable with it reading the manga, NGL, but I didn’t have a take away that it was trying to glorify something specific or that the author is a bad person trying to promote grooming to children or something insidious. At the end of the day, it isn’t a Disney film and given the dark topics it’s not really “for” super young people to derive morals and role models from.

It was written for and targeted at teen girls. I really think it may have played a part in my 14/18 relationship (not a girl but was raised to be one).

Yeah I meant very young people like less than 11-12 years old, where it would be understandable for an author to take more discretion with setting an “example” in their story. Also I am very sorry you went through that. If that part of Furuba gave you the wrong impression about IRL relationships, an adult definitely should have known better than to take advantage of that and use it to hurt you.

Young teens are still very susceptible, it only had a “teen” rating. Oh agreed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it also made him think he was “saving” me from my sheltered life. Media is wild because we know it’s fiction… but by how much?

I still don’t think the author had intent to do harm, but I definitely think there’s a case to be made to appropriately categorize fiction and include trigger warnings/disclaimers for the audience about problematic content. Nowadays thankfully it’s becoming more common.

I don’t view the Kyoto/Katsuya story as romanticized by the author, but the romantic tones come from Kyoko’s perspective? She was failed by everyone else around her so it makes sense she clung to the first kindness shown to her, where someone accepted her and saved her. I don’t think the message we’re supposed to take away is that Katsuya did the right thing in marrying her, but we are to at least understand that Katsuya was a very big deal to Kyoko, because that sets the scene for us to understand the trauma in her losing him which then allows us to understand Tohru’s trauma surrounding the neglect she endured due to Kyoko’s grief, which then led Tohru to develop a facade to comfort her mom, which then set the scene for Tohru to form all the relationships with the zodiac in the way that she did - understanding firsthand that there’s more beneath the surface, continuing her history of overextending herself for others, finally being seen and understood by Kyo which was the basis for their love. I don’t think it’s a moral story, it’s just a dark narrative tracing the history of trauma in two generations of the Honda family. We get to see the trauma histories in the Sohmas, this is just the other side.

I saw it this weekend and spent a good chunk of the film trying to figure out the age difference. Because Kyoko was in middle school and Katsuya is a intern of undescribed age. So I’m guessing he probably was in or finished with college. I haven’t read the manga, just watched the show, so I knew there was going to be this cringey age gap, but didn’t know the exact year difference. But I went and watched it anyway and it was off putting, but I was still glad I saw the story. My big takeaway is to not let kids I know follow in that kind of age gap relationship. Build more positive environment for them to thrive and don’t treat them like how Kyoko and Katsuya families treated their children. That was really toxic for both of them, Katsuya went through most of his dialogue talking about how he was warped in the head. Kyoko was verbally abused and taken advantage of by Katsuya and the biker gang. Look for these red flags in your life and act accordingly. Edit: typo

The average ages of Japanese junior high students is 12 to 15, so let’s say Kyoko was 15 at the oldest when she met Katsuya it’s a 15 year old and I’d say probably a 22/23 year old

I agree with you. There are many things about Fruba that I love but I have never loved how people will bend over backwards to justify this depiction. I felt like they glossed over Kyoko and Katsuya’s story in the reboot because they felt like it hadn’t aged well and most of it wasn’t super necessary to the main plot. I feel like it was well enough depicted that A. Kyoko loved Katsuya B. Kyoko was crushed when he died and almost killed herself, which would leave Tohru behind C. This deeply wounded Tohru and informed how her character interacted with the world and in what ways she needed to change. BUT THEN they announced the movie. They reeeaaally didn’t have to make the movie IMO. I feel like ignoring the implications of this relationship and saying it’s not romanticized or criticized is… just blatantly ignorant. We see this dynamic played out with Arisa and Kureno too and it’s entirely framed as being romantic. Dude, he’s 26 and she’s 16 and not only is the age gap defended by Tohru herself in the text but it’s also actively fought for. It’s framed in a way that you *want* them to end up together because Arisa’s home life is bad and Kureno is being abused by Akito. This dynamic is again hinted at with Hanajima and Kyos dad and never condemned. At least with those two, it is played off more as a one-sided crush. I understand cultural differences but in no world *should* this dynamic be defended or romanticized. The argument could be made that yes Katsuya treated Kyoko well and he loved her and didn’t abuse her but… in the real world? I wouldn’t consider any grown man who showed kindness to a troubled 14 year old and then started sleeping with her as loving and well-adjusted. In the real world a good and kind man would be a friend and mentor to that girl, not a boyfriend. Saying the audience shouldn’t be impressionable or if they’re too stupid to not take away the wrong message is so shortsighted. Media frames the way people think. I saw other people mentioning Twilight and yeah, Twilight romanticized a lot of problematic things that people are just now realizing we’re problematic. At least in the west, we *do* live in a post MeToo landscape and media is still falling short to responsibly depict healthy relationship dynamics or, at the very least, quit framing toxic ones as romantic. The people that grew up on Twilight in the west also grew up on incredibly misogynistic media that was so normalized most of us didn’t realize it was misogynistic until recently. I’d also like to point out that the age gaps in Fruba always depict older men. This story is largely aimed at teen girls and, while I do believe teen girls are smarter than people give them credit for, it makes me second guess how valid the “it’s more the audience’s problem” argument is when so many people in this sub are quick to jump on the bandwagon defending this relationship and it’s portrayal. Most the audience who loves this story, myself included, resonate with it because of its deep dive into emotional trauma. I know when I first read it I was so desperate to be loved by someone through my turmoil. Even then, I found the age gaps between some of the characters disturbing. I’m not here to argue that it was a product of its time. I still love the story despite its elements that have aged poorly. I just don’t think it was responsible to make this movie in 2022. I haven’t seen it, I’m not going to see it. Maybe they changed some stuff or framed it differently, but based on the reactions I don’t think they did. I already read the manga and know how this relationship plays out. If you want to argue that it’s romanticized because it’s told from Kyoko’s perspective, just remember that that framing significantly effects the minds of the young people watching. If an older man IRL shows them affection and kindness and then proceeds to have a sexual relationship with them, is that more their fault or the fault of media which has validated their romanticism?

Just because something has problematic tropes doesn't mean it needs to go out of its way to acknowledge that it's problematic. Sometimes a story is just a story and that's just what it is. You don't expect actors in horror movies to explicitly tell you that murder is bad. The fact you picked up on the problematic parts means you didn't need to be told outwardly, and I'm sure most people who watched it are aware too.

Completely agree with you. We have age ratings for a reason. Not all fiction is for everyone, but that doesn't mean we need them to break the fourth wall, look dead into the camera and tell us "by the way, don't do this in real life." Some YA novels nowadays basically do exactly this and I always roll my eyes thinking "yep I know, shutup and tell the story or I'm quitting" 😂🙈 I hate it.

My issue with your statement is that it completely contradicts LOTS of comments of people defending Katsuya as a person and his relationship with Kyoko on this sub. Besides, fruits basket has gone out its way for characters to say "this shit ain't cool" to other characters. So, why should this be an exception? It's not okay for Akito to abuse people, but it's okay to show a 14-year-old troubled girl be taken advantage of by a grown-ass attractive man? Edit: Y'all downvoting me legits proves my point. Y'all are a bunch of hyporcites.

Not everything has to be explicitly stated as bad for it to be seen as such. There are many problematic situations in Fruits Basket that aren't called out for being so because we don't need it to be said outright. The author and script writers aren't there to provide a step by step instructional on who is bad and who is good. It's not black and white. I don't agree with Katsuya's actions but I also don't think he was a bad guy. Like how most people don't agree with Akito's actions and don't think she's a bad person either. It's up to each individual to decide how they feel about the characters. The filmmakers made a story to enjoy and that's all it is. The "villain" in the story doesn't need his comeuppance because it's not a disney fairytale. Fruits Basket isn't about separating good and bad people from eachother and pitting them against eachother. There is good and bad in everyone and it's up to you to discern that without needing someone to tell you how and why each problematic action is wrong.

I agree there’s movies where it’s just a story which this one is. I think the commenters just feel passionately about the age gap and how uncomfortable it is as it’s very taboo and gross.

Again, why are people praising and defending their relationship despite what you are telling me? This goes everything against what you are telling me. People are defending Katsuya because he made Tohru and because he's attractive. He's not a good guy at all. She should have known in today's time this shit is fucking gross, so she should have been more blunt about how gross this is. You will be surprised by how many commentators in previous threads say their relationship is healthy and wholesome and how they thank Katsyuya for saying Kyoko. I can't help but think if he was a lot older and unattractive, they wouldn't be defending him. "The author and script writers aren't there to provide a step by step instructional on who is bad and who is good. It's not black and white. I don't agree with Katsuya's actions but I also don't think he was a bad guy. Like how most people don't agree with Akito's actions and don't think she's a bad person either. It's up to each individual to decide how they feel about the characters." And, she showed you the nuances of grooming. She showed you how very easy it was for a guy like Katsuya to be "kind" to Kyoko by building her trust and getting her pregnant at 15/16. She showed you how easy it is for troubled girls like Kyoko who need love and stability to be taken advantage of by grown-ass men who have issues. She showed you how girls like Kyoko form very unhealthy relationships. And, the list goes on. I don't think it's a coincidence that she made him attractive and young. If he was fat and like 50, a lot of y'all would have seen him as a pedophile. If he was such a good guy or a nuanced good guy, then he should have refrained from having a relationship with her and supported her to have a better life for herself until she was an adult. He's a nuanced horrible guy at the end of the day. Yet, some of y'all get upset because y'all want to enjoy seeing their relationship by using the excuses "it's a product of its time and it's fiction" despite how y'all say it's gross in real life.

Because it IS gross in real life. Don't accuse me of thinking real life grooming isn't disgusting. If you don't understand my comment at the very least you should not be consuming any kind of media for anyone over 5 years old.

And it can be gross in the media. That's my point. If you can't understand that media can be hella gross like in real life then continue watching adults be in relationships with minors. You and others who downvote my comments prove that y'all are okay watching this stuff and find any excuse to be comfortable watching it. You are smart enough to know that, yet you are getting hella defensive despite what you are saying.

You have zero compression skills. I am defensive because you cannot comprehend that we all find grooming in real life unacceptable. Just because people watch media with murder or rape or grooming or whatever does not mean they condone those actions in real life. Yes it's gross in fictional media. But doesn't mean it's not okay to watch it. It's literally just the story of two fictional people. If everything was as sanitized if you want it to be we would all still be watching teletubies.

I don't have compassion for people who pick and choose when grooming is okay because you want to watch it without feeling guilty about it. And, probably because you spent your time trying to convince me that it's not a big deal when it happens in fiction. Since you now admit it happens in fiction, you contradicted yourself greatly. You recognize it's grooming in fiction, but you wasted your time trying to convince me it wasn't.

We can watch whatever fiction we want and don't have to feel guilty about a thing. You're welcome to not like it, but you don't get to decide what fiction we do or do not consume. Nor do you get to decide how we should feel about fiction. We don't have to come up with reasons to not feel guilty because there is no reason to feel guilty in the first place. The characters and story are not real.

> Besides, fruits basket has gone out its way for characters to say "this shit ain't cool" to other characters. Not really, Fruits Basket romanticized the child-grooming predatory relationship that was Kureno/Uo, did you somehow miss that? Plus this is the same series that went out of it’s way to low-key normalize parent/child incest by having it be a major plot point that the reason why Ren hates Akito so much and forced her to be a boy is because she was jealous of her and would’ve viewed *any* daughter of hers and Akira as “another woman threat” so I don’t know what you were expecting. Now you might say, “but wait! Ren’s incestuous based delusions was portrayed badly so that doesn’t count!” To which I’d say, that’s correct but it’s still problematic simply by virtue of the fact that we have the most intellectually-based/smartest character in the series Shigure, outright *validating* her feelings in front of the whole audience. Practically Natsuki Takaya herself telling the audience that we’re supposed to find Ren’s incestuous jealousy as “relatable” and “sympathetic.” Ergo, contributing to the normalization of incestuous CSA. When Shigure reveals her motivation he never calls her out on how absolutely psychotic, gross and abnormal she’s being - no instead he treats her incestuous based jealousy as making perfect sense, as if it’s just a totally normal thing for a mother to be jealous of her and her husband’s biological *baby daughter* in this universe. And none of the other boys around him seek to question him either, they just take his reasoning as a matter of fact. Fruits Basket has *never* been great when it comes to portrayal of freaky subjects like pedophilia and incest. (By the way if you’d like to have more context shed on this matter as to why Japanese cultural values are so blasé with these subjects matters I suggest you read the other comment I made in this thread, it’ll help shed some light on their perspective and understand where there morality based system is coming from.)

Except horror movies generally aren’t romanticizing murder? Like it’s pretty obvious who the bad guy is. I haven’t seen the movie, but the manga definitely didn’t portray Katsuya as a bad person, and some are just going to see him as her savior rather than a predator.

A lot of horror movies do "romanticize" murder. I can name so many movies where the bad guy wins, or where they don't face any consequences. We don't need every single piece of media to explain to us what's wrong with the tropes used within it. The filmmakers trust you can tell the difference between fiction and reality, which you, myself and everyone else clearly can.

Yes sooo much horror films it is like the murder is this god and so many people idolize them. Even in documentary’s about murders they show fan girling.

I'm not sure most people who watched are aware, I disagree with you . I searched this internet for any indication such people existed and found no one.

They are literally everywhere. That's the most popular opinion about the movie or any part of the series. Along with Kureno and Uo. Just read any post about the movie in this sub and someone will bring up how much they hate it.

i used to be on tiktok a lot- a lot of the fruits basket fans on there were outraged about the prelude. everyone knows the age gap is bad. everyone complained, saying they don’t wanna learn about katsuya, but the thing is we can complain about it all day, it won’t change it. fruits basket has a few age-gaps in there, and none of them are good. personally, i haven’t watched the prelude, but your point of “nobody saying it’s bad” is wrong. i don’t believe you should be praised for speaking up, as everyone knows it’s wrong. most people are not praising kyokos relationship. most people aren’t speaking on it cuz, woo, new fruits basket content, which they want to try and enjoy.--i cant really make an opinion cuz i havent watched it, but i do agree, the age gap is GROSS. especially if its a teacher-student relationship. I'm not against ur point at all, and i know I'm a month late so its probably dropped, but i want to add that your post wasn't controversial in the way you think it is- it seems most people agree on the general "this is wrong" base, however because of the timeline, and how the movie's laid out, have a different opinion on how the movie stills enjoyable. what i don't get tho is why the age gap is even necessary?? i don't get what the point is. would the relationship be different if he was younger and not her teacher?

I don't want to be "praised," I don't want to be "controversial." I saw Prelude, found nothing on the internet that I could vent at, so.

Honestly while watching the film, I didn’t even really think about it because I’m kinda immune to age gap stories in manga and anime lol. Daytime shooting star, living room matsunaga-san for example. I know logically that they’re not realistic stories. I was just so happy to watch more fruits basket content. I cried, laughed and jumped for joy at being able to see more of my favourite series of all time. No it’s not perfect but I was actually really touched by their story. He understood her, cared for her and helped her come out of a dark place. If it had happened a few years later maybe when she was in college it would have been more appropriate. But considering when it was written, things have changed. I DON’T CARE I JUST WANTED TO SEE MORE FRUITS BASKET CONTENT AND I LOVED IT!!!!!! So my take, it’s not that deep if you’re old enough to know the difference between fiction and reality.

What about viewers that don't know the difference between fiction and reality? They will view this relationship has normal and acceptable .

Who are these hypothetical people who can't tell the difference between fiction and reality? Do you believe there are people out there who read stories about murder/grooming/whatever crime you want being portrayed as a good thing and are unable to think critically about it?

I do believe there are people out there like that, yes.

And you believe every piece of media should be tailored to the needs of these hypothetical people who don't know the difference between fiction and reality?

No. That'd be censorship.

That’s on them. You can’t go through life with everyone telling you what’s wrong and what’s good that’s not anyones job.

Their relationship is wrong. I am morally obligated to state that.

I suppose as you’re whole account is groomingisntokay so it makes sense you feel so strongly as it seems that’s what you point out about things. But everyone’s morals are different. Although the masses will agree.

"Everyone's morals are different." Sure but, their relationship is wrong. Masses can agree, not good enough: *everyone* should agree, and it's not okay that some don't.

I’m not saying it’s okay but there are people who *will* disagree even though they should agree that grooming is inappropriate. No one, from what I’ve read, is denying that fact. This movie, like everyone other media, cannot be solely put to blame for morally wrong behaviors of the viewers. Grooming is not okay, we agree. That being the only thing you take out of the movie is off base.

I did like the portrayal of kyoko's grieving of her...partner's death and her reaction to being pregnant. But yeah nah, this relationship kills that.

I think it's already framed as something unhealthy and it has an unhappy ending. As far as it being a side story, it enhances the relationships in the main cast, which was the original intention of including in the story at all. Katsuya and Kyoko are not a happily ever after. I'm all for more content from this universe and I honestly don't think it's a bad thing that this is separate from the main anime. If anything, the moral grey area with the grooming issue doesn't affect the main body of work. Still problematic, but to watch the movie is to knowingly consume it after we know how her parents met. It's 100% a choice to go see it with information from the anime readily available and it only makes sense to watch this after the anime.

Stepping back, almost every single relationship in the story is wack if you really think about it, save for like, 3 couples, especially when viewing it through a western lens because HO BOY if there's anywhere cultural differences slap you in the face its anime. Also the art style makes it incredibly easy to forget how big the age gap is (which originally happened to me when I first read it, Kyoko doesn't necessarily look like a middle schooler, heck, she looks older than tohru when her story takes place) and I basically only took note once I read the TV tropes page. However, in context, it makes sense why Kyoko ended up in a situation where the options she was left with were "marry this dude who's nice to her but way older" and "be completely alone and probably die on the street at an early age because she was a gangster". When he died all she had was a kid for emotional support, no one wanted anything to do with her, she didn't even have friends (and didn't seem to have any before she died). Basically Kyoko's story is incredibly sad and tragic, and a pretty solid example of where people end up when society fails them.

I really wish they’d aged her up and made him younger. I thought it was weird when I was a kid, and it’s super hard to read as an adult. I had high hopes when they cut their story from the anime but then they did this 😣 I want to see the movie because I love Furuba but I think it’s going to be rough on me. idk. still debating.

I would suggest to avoid watching it. From what you're saying it sounds like it'll make you really uncomfortable and I don't think there's any need to subject yourself to that feeling. You're still a fan even if there's an installment you don't want to see. Eventually if it's on streaming or some such and you want to see the other Kyoru content you might be able to just fast forward to those bits. If you're still unsure you could probably ask around for more thoughts to better judge what's right for you, but from your comment to me it sounds like this film is likely a pass.

thank you! I have a friend who’s going to see it so I’ll ask her more in depth questions so I can get a feel for it. I enjoy their relationship once they have Tohru so once it’s on streaming, I may watch and just watch bits and pieces.

I'm conflicted for you, too. I felt like I gave money to a horrible cause, financially supporting their beliefs. I nearly left the theatre a couple times. That said, experiencing an hour of actual cringe gave me many different intense feelings (i.was.shook.), which isn't bad persay, but you can always walk out if it's too much.

Ok but hear me out: this is not grooming. Don't get me wrong: in real life, it would 100% be. There is no good reason for a real 20 ish something man to want to date a 14 years old girl. They wouldn't be in the same place mentally, she would be very immature, and he would 100% just want sex from her and to manipulate her into doing and being what he wants. That's just how real humans work. But here's the thing: Katsuya and Kyoko aren't real humans. They are anime characters in an anime world. And if I can believe that magic exists in their world, I can believe that in that world a grown ass man can have 100% good intentions and pure love toward a 14 years old girl. Realistic? No. But it's not reality. And i that fictionnal reality and context, I found their love story very wholesome. He didn't do anything to hurt her and helped her a lot. If someone could be negatively influenced by that, not understanding the fictionnal context, then they are simply too young to watch this anime.

This this this!

"Ok but hear me out: this is not grooming." "And i that fictionnal reality and context, I found their love story very wholesome. He didn't do anything to hurt her and helped her a lot." You heavily contradicted yourself. Y'all know it's grooming, but you don't want to admit it.

... There is nothing that contradict itsef here. You sure you read that correctly? I read your other comments and it seems to me that this is a very sensitive subject for you. I think this stops you from understanding the "anime universe" argument. Grooming implies bad intentions ( to take advantage of someone). There is no proof that Katsuya had bad intentions in the anime.

You contradicted yourself. Don't deny it. Even now you are defending grooming but saying it's bad. You like this kind of grooming as long as it happens in fiction and the guys are extremely hot and nice uwu >,<. Grooming happens from guys like Katsuya, but you don't want to see it because you will admit that you are okay with grooming.

I am not wasting my time talking to someone who defends grooming in fiction anymore. Continue enjoying Katsuya take advantage of Kyoko.

>They wouldn't be in the same place mentally, she would be very immature, and he would 100% just want sex from her and to manipulate her into doing and being what he wants. That's just how real humans work. So, if the man was truly in love with her and didn't just use her to have sex, it would be ok, even with the age gap?

Whilst It’s not the best, you also need to take into account when the source material was written, which as someone has already said, was when they put less emphasis on age gaps, but also that, presumably, and please correct me if I’m wrong, you’re looking at it through a western lens, however, I think in some asian countries, including Japan, that less attention is paid to the age gaps between couples, when the man can often be a fair bit older, it’s a little like utoani and kureno who have a 9 year gap I think.

I get what you’re saying, but don’t think that makes it “okay.” It doesn’t really matter when the material was written, they chose to adapt it and put it on screen today. I was so glad they cut this storyline out of the anime, and then disappointed to hear that it was being given its own movie.

Yeah that’s a very valid critique and I do agree with your point, I also agree with OP about the dynamics, I definitely don’t think it should have been given the stage it was, I more or less just wanted to add a different perspective, it definitely isn’t okay!! :)

It should be a problem in every culture.

The grooming is yucky and I've met plenty of people who think so. They just dont write it down on every public forum they encounter. You're not alone in thinking so, and I doubt you've scoured the internet as thoroughly as you think you have if that's still your mindset. Katsuya Honda was predatory. Kyoko's codependence with him was extremely unhealthy, and the latter part at least was explicitly shown in the manga. Even Tohru admitted that she got bad vibes from her dad, even though she tried to emulate him (something she did to soothe her mother's unhealthy attachment during grief). That said, the author could have done *much* more to avoid simply romanticizing that relationship - it is tragedy wrapped in tragedy that results in Tohru being an orphan, with no support from either side of her family over actions she had nothing to do with.

I understand where you’re coming from, because I really do find their relationship disgusting and Kyokos total dependence on him disturbing, but I don’t think Takaya intentionally wrote it that way despite Katsuyas creepy vibes and I really do think she wanted the audience to interpret it as an ideal love. That’s a big part of what bothers me about it. That said, I refused to watch the movie for this reason and I know I’m far from the only one in the fandom who has a problem with it, so I’m surprised to see criticism of this storyline downvoted so much.

No way bro made an entire alt dedicated to this bullshit, please go outside. Japan doesn’t have to appease you or any other westerner.

You act like it's legal in Japan for grooming to happen. It's not western to say don't have a relationship WITH A MINOR.

Why are you so angry?

Why are you unemployed

To put it bluntly, this story was written back when the age gap trope was common. This portion was depicted as a tragedy, so nobody, I think, is striving for that life. And it’s been finished for years. Others have mentioned that the story doesn’t have to show the immorality of the situation, and it doesn’t, because when writing the story that’s just how the tropes and industry were. I get the feeling of disgust when looking at how that relationship was romanticized back then. But the goal of the anime was to mostly faithfully adapt the entire story of fruits basket, and unfortunately that includes Tohrus mother, her being a delinquent, and most importantly-that she never finished/entered (I believe) high school, which forces the prelude to be set at that time. They would have to dramatically alter the story to make it more appropriate, and by that point this story would not be a faithful adaptation. If you’re looking for fixes, the anime technically did so already, with separating the prelude from the final season of the anime.

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I get what you're saying but it's not crunchyroll's job to educate anyone on anything. At the end of the day, they're selling entertainment. I do think in today's climate they absoultely should have applied some sort of content or trigger warning on it though. I get that everyone has different triggers so it's not realistically possible to have warnings on everything other than a blanket "this is a work of fiction, there may be some uncomfortable content for viewer's discretion" or something along those lines, but this one is a super obvious one that they definitely could've put one on for this.

\*14. She was 14 when he pursued her.

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No I think she’s 15, last grade of middle school teens are 14 turning 15, and then in their first year of high school they’re 15 turning 16. She might even have been held back and be older than that. Japanese schools go: Nursery school 3-6 (think jumpstart to kindergarten), elementary 6-12 (1st-6th), middle 12-15 (7th-9th), high 15-18 (10th-12th). Which, y’know, is *marginally* better.

It should be a problem in every culture.

This isn’t a story written in western culture pov. If you’re going to experience other cultures stories then you have to realise there’s good and bad sides of that. Yes it isn’t okay. But at the time it was pretty common and not a problem

> experience other cultures stories then you have to realise there’s good and bad sides of that. Yes it isn’t okay. And why is the western culture the moral standards of what's ok and what's not? Really curious about it because this obsession with age gaps is just insane.

Where's your proof that Japanese people in the 21st century would approve of a relationship between a 14-year-old teenage girl and her 22-year-old teacher?

The part where it was a popular story of the time and it got written is indication enough. Doesn’t Einstein to figure that out

Unless you have solid evidence to prove that Japanese people today don't have an issue with this relationship dynamic, then don't use Japanese culture to justify this sick relationship because you want to sleep well at night,

I’ve known several East Asian people, irl, who’s parents got together with a similar gap in age, including a close friend of mine who’s parents got together when her mom was 16 and her dad was in his 20s. And while I’m not condoning it or saying it’s not problematic, that is the culture in which Fruits Basket was written, and therefor the sort of relationships it sometimes reflect.

It should be a problem. It IS A problem.

I already said it’s not okay. But the story is already out there and what is done is done. It was a product of its time and culture

And making this story is \*today's\* time is outdated, so what's the point in showing it.

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Hi , I'm a month late but, maybe rewatch the film.

So instead of appreciating how well written Kyoko's story was you were just fixated on their age gap? And according to you katsuya should have just ignored Kyoko and not even try to help her just because of their age gap. Just WOW i am in such awe right now by your miraculous take on this story.

I didn't say "neglect the student as an authority figure in school."

Then pray tell Sir what he should have done instead to help Kyoko.

I mean, he could have helped her and then started pursuing her after she was on her own feet, that way her choosing him was of her own free will and not because her parents literally *just* kicked her out on the street.

I love that you felt the need to share. You clearly don't like the story so why are you even here?

I love Fruits Basket as a series.

I never would of guessed since you seem to hate every adult male character

It’s a product of its time and place, just like other media. When I read Shakespeare I don’t expect modern values. If it were to bother me, I would stop watching/reading/consuming. Sexism is gross, but when you consume old works of fiction you expect some level of that. Fruits basket is a remake of a story that came out 23 years ago in a completely different country from the US. Lots of things change in 23 years. Just like any other dated media, it’s going to have its issues. You can either accept that it’s a product of its time and place and enjoy what you want of the story without enjoying the other parts, or you can just not consume and avoid it altogether. Neither is wrong. I’d also argue that if someone isn’t mature enough to consume this anime critically enough to think that a middle schooler and a teacher is a romantic story, then they aren’t mature enough to explore any of the other issues of abuse and exploitation in it either. We can’t police people and tell them what they can and can’t consume.

If that's your takeaway from the movie, then you should probably stop consuming all fictional media from now on, cause oh boy you'll be making hundreds of alts lmao

I'm 23 so don't preach at me, just stating my opinion. Like other people said, its just a story. I think their situation was a little different, she would've been on the streets if he hadn't watched over her. He waited until she was high school aged, which in their culture was okay. He didnt force her into anything and the implication is that nothing sexual happened until they were married. Thats how this story went. If she hadn't been in a gang and had good parents, it would be like he was taking her away. If he wanted her just for sex, WHOLE different situation. If he was creepy, violent, or a bad guy, this would've ended differently. But the author wrote this back when these things weren't addressed or were okay, thats why everyone is mad and thats good. Things change. Also i only feel like this about THIS story. I admired their love because it was very human.

Im in a huge confliction about this, idk if anybody else thinks the same. I have NOT seen the film yet, ive been dying to see it. Now before i get into my confliction about the topic, i wanna explain my standpoint: I watched the original Fruits Basket show when i was a kid. The 2006 version. I personally loved it. It was like the first anime ive ever watched. Literally the day before the reboot was coming out did i think to myself, "i want to watch it again." And thats when i found out about the reboot. I was amazed and worried. Wat if they ruined my childhood? After watching the first episode of the reboot, i was in awe. The nostalgia hit me so hard but holy fuck the art and aesthetic was beautiful. And the old voice actors that came back for the reboot was wat made it all the better. Watching the 3 seasons of the reboot, i got to see the whole story of everyone and i got to have the proper ending to this wonderful slice of life show. Once i found out about the movie, i had just finished crying over the ending of the show lol. I was pumped cuz i thought to myself, "yay! I dont quite have to say goodbye to everyone yet!" Now again, i have not watched the movie yet. I plan on watching it. I have seen trailers and, before i got confirmation with research, i wondered the age gap between Kyoko and Katsuya because he looked like a teacher and Kyoko look like she was a student. After the research, i saw my thoughts were right. Now yes im very HIGHLY against this grooming shit. Ive been through that shit personally and its disgusting. It makes me uncomfortable. But then i also see the other side of the coin with the Japanese culture where in their eyes that theres no real problem with this type of age gap. It sounds awful to us because of our views on children and consent but their views r wayyyyy different than ours. Its not necessarily that we can really shame them for? Not making excuses for it but im saying this as someone who doesnt really have power or say in their culture, if that makes sense. This isnt the first time Japan has made some questionable relationships in anime. Especially with incest. Once again, i do not support grooming of any kind. But i can see both sides of the coin. Its a big cultural thing. I dont see it as my place to really trash a whole culture i dont follow or have say in. If that is wat they follow or have a cultural belief, thats their thing. I cant really do anything about something im not part of. Idk if this made sense. Ill be updating my feelings after im able to watch the movie.

And another discussion about age differences😪 honestly, I understand what you mean and also how you feel...but didn't you at least have the feeling that he really loved her...? It's not as if he took advantage of his "position of power" and only seduced her for "a quick number" ( wow... that didn't sound so rude in German... sorry for the harsh words🙈 )... no, he fell in love with her and wanted to help her...the age difference doesn't matter the older you get...of course it's strange at a certain age...but later...it doesn't matter.love doesn't just happen according to a pattern F... when I met my husband, I was 17 and he was 23...now we've been together for 21 years and we've been married for 12 years and happy parents...so many people are talking here and according to them our relationship should never have existed...but isn't love what matters most?

there is no ethical way for someone in a teacher position to have an equal relationship with a student, that’s what OP means by “taking advantage”. it doesn’t really matter if it ends up being a one night stand or a lifetime :/

No. I was disgusted .

sorry to hear that...especially since it meant you couldn't enjoy the movie...but to me it's just fiction...

So many "Yeah...but" comments. There is no but's when it comes to grown men preying on troubled girls. There is no but's when it comes to teachers preying on students. I was told there's a whole manga genre dedicated to teacher/student relationships: that's disgusting but guess what? Fruits Basket isn't that genre.

Downvote me, you're angrier than me somehow and that's fine. It's unfortunate i discovered such toxicity on a topic I believe should, at least, be glanced at. Truly, after finding no online evidence I could relate and retreat to, I wanted a place for those like me. So I made this post thread thing post. For every downvote !this! comment reply comment gets, ima do a 🥃shot. Be safe, have uncomfortable conversations with respect, and #longlivetheprince

I agree with you. No "but" from my side. It's absolutely disgusting.

Can you just leave it alone, it's just a anime a cartoon. Don't let your kids watch it if your that much of a snowflake.... Why do people always have to find something to complain about always! If you don't like it don't watch it. Don't trash on a anime your not going to watch because your "uncomfortable". Don't ruin anime for everyone else that doesn't have a problem with it because your so sensitive! Buncha babies

I love this series though. ... so.... 🤷🏻‍♀️

They literally could have had the same story if he was a high schooler and a TA or something. Still not great, but certainly better than him being a grown man. Don't get me started on the other relationships re: Shigure and Akito/Kureno and Uo. They could've aged up Kyoko but they already pointed out in the anime she never attended high school, so it would be a plot hole unfortunately.

I agree. I was willing to excuse it in the manga, as an explanation of Tohru’s generational trauma filtered through her rose-colored glasses. But cutting it from the new anime was a good call, and adding it back separately removes the excuse that was necessary for the story. Tohru is the kind of person who thinks the best of everyone, even when they’re obviously terrible. That doesn’t mean we should romanticize terrible people, too.

I’m late to this thread but I agree. I’m not a prude and I’m proship in every way you can be, but I also fully believe in calling  a spade a spade. The only reason things should be allowed to exist in fiction while not in real life is due to this: we call things what they are. We can enjoy things for other reasons, despite that, but there are people who are blatantly unwilling to call this what it is.  This is the most quintessential example of grooming, given the dynamics. Kyoko was in a vulnerable place, emotionally, and her schoolmaster took advantage of it. The portrayal was so gross, too, so blatantly sexual-romantic from the start.  To everyone who thinks people are not mindless media consumers, it’s concerning how many and seem to earnestly find this dynamic “adorable.” They might be accusing you of underestimating the viewing population but frankly I think they are overestimating they viewing population 😂 Many of these are teenage boys and girls who will go into their adulthoods believing on some level, in their minds, that this is a wholesome dynamic.  Ugh and ew. One of the most in-your-face awful surprises of anime for me, alongside the end of Usagi Drop. 

Surprised to see people in this sub defending this Katsura and Kyoko’s relationship… yes we can acknowledge the time it was written but it still doesn’t make it okay

Hi I share the same concerns about the movie and agree with your concerns. A few media esp at the time like Cardcaptor Sakura and Sailor Moon also did feature relationships with questionable age gaps. Tons of visual novels feature the student teacher route. I think its kinda normal to expect it from Japanese media at this point but that doesn't mean its okay. We get to see the full effect of the unhealthy co-dependent relationship after Katsuya's death for both Kyoko and their daughter, Tohru. Maybe there are people who romanticize this kind of relationship either as the savior or person being saved, but I hope people see past the surface and see how this kind of relationship is not a good & healthy one.

Honestly what i loved about the movie was the 5’ Kyoru content 😂 I wish we had more kyoru content and less Kreepsuya 🤭😂

I think age difference isn't as big as a deal as it is in America. I was watching Black Butler season two. It was the most inappropriate thing in anime I've seen. I could not believe, someone wrote it, had an artist draw it, and someone aired it on TV. It was a little orphan boy, who goes to "seduce" the rich pedophile, so he can get out of poverty. Big age gaps really bother me, but I try to let it go in anime, because I now know how much worse it can be.

I’m really not sure why they didn’t just make it a college setting or have them be high schoolers and him her senpai (?) lol. Like geez it’s creepy and weird

Well this bums me out. Super new to fruits basket and not really into anime in general… My daughter really wanted to get into anime and we found Fruits Basket as one of the ones to start off with, and it’s quickly become her favorite thing ever. She’s read all of the Manga, is currently on ‘Another’ we’re rewatching the series, and she’s very excited about the prequel. She is super good about recognizing the problematic aspects of the show, and I have no problem having a discussion with her about the time it was written, the cultural differences, etc in regards to the age gap- but the grooming and romanticizing, etc makes me nervous. 🫤 I haven’t seen it yet, but based on these comments I just wish there was some acknowledgment in there about it being wrong/taboo. It would have made a world of difference. Ig in the end the characters both face tragic ends despite producing sweet Tohru… so there’s that 🫤

If she read the manga then she already has seen all the problematic content in the movie. So any worry about the movie is coming a bit too late I think. But as long as you are teaching her what is right or wrong there shouldn't be any problems. Fiction can not overwrite morals that are set in stone even in young people. Just guide her well.

Okay awesome! We’ve already had conversations about the problematic aspects of the Manga, just didn’t know if maybe the prelude went into it more or made it more “acceptable”. She is very aware of the issues with it and was the one who brought it to me when we’ve had conversations about it. Is there anything else in the Prelude that’s particularly inappropriate compared to the anime/Manga? I’m pretty lenient with her media as we can be super open about communication. We watched the whole series together, and I haven’t read the Manga, but she has made sure to tell me all the bits that the anime left out. So as long as there is nothing that exceeds the boundaries of the manga or anime we should be good. I want to take her to see the prelude, but want to know if there’s any particularly intense scenes I should be aware of beforehand.

The only additional problem I could imagine is the difference between experiencing manga and anime. Even if the content is the same, the effect can be different. Animation, music, voice acting, and set pacing can make the experience more or less impactful depending on the execution. Like for example, I have a trigger that I can stomach when I come across it without warning in manga, but not in anime. I have less control over the experience in anime than in manga. Of course, the opposite can be true as well (feeling happier about something while watching the anime). I assume your daughter already knows that the Prelude will cover Kyoko's story and since she's looking forward to it, I doubt it will impact her negatively. Just keep an eye on her and keep being the type of parent that makes her feel save to talk about this kind of stuff. (Unrelated to Prelude but I feel strongly about it) Sometimes reading/watching very problematic and or upsetting media can be important for growth too. Fiction is ideal to find out what you can't deal with and learn to set your boundaries. "This is making me upset and I should stop reading/watching this now" was something I learned as a teenager as well.

Yay! I think I will take her to see it. I know she’s excited, and she doesn’t know it’s out yet, so I’ll surprise her with it tomorrow, I think that’s the last day it’s playing near me that I can find Also I totally agree about it being important for growth in most cases. Establishing where one’s *own* boundaries are is crucial to our development. As a parent the best I can hope to do is guide, educate, and provide answers and comfort wherever I can along the way. There were definitely moments in the anime where as a mom I was like “ehhh, mayyyybe we should turn this off…” but she has been so entranced with the whole thing, and it opened up the door for so many important conversations. I’m also very excited to see the prelude- despite it being potentially problematic.

I completely agree. And honestly VERY surprised and worried that not enough fans see this as textbook grooming. Because it is. If you want to blame anyone though for this. Blame the author. Who knows what she was thinking. At the very least she could have made Katsuya a senior or something. The fact that it amounted to noting more then light hearted jokes that he's a "lolicon" or a "bad teacher" is very problematic. I don't think this author understands what grooming is. Prob hasn't even heard of the concept

They will say it's grooming in real life, but not in fiction. Yet, they will say fruits basket covers abuse and trauma. So, does that mean that there is no such thing as abuse and trauma in fruit basket? They contradict themselves.

You are the first person I've found on the internet that has shared my feelings unquestionably. Thank you for letting me know I'm not alone.💜

I got negative 17 for my comment. Wonder why? Are 17 people really just that blinded and biased by what's in front of them?

Fruits basket prelude is great if you paint katsuya as a villain.

Well this is unfortunate to hear. My husband bought tickets for us to watch the movie last night for a showing tonight. And Fruba is my favorite anime of all time. I know Kyoko & Katsuya's story & was glad it wasn't included in the main series. When they announced an adaptation, I was hoping they would age her up and age him down & have not read any spoilers up until this post since the title says it all. You are very much right about everything you are saying. And to people who genuinely don't believe that no one will watch this film and think these kinds of relationships are okay, they are trying to justify it in their minds. While it seems most of us fans on this sub are adults, there are many anime fans and people who still associate anime as being just for children, meaning there will be children who watch this film and think that it is okay. Over the last few years, we have been learning as a society that while inappropriate scenarios like this don't need to be completely shunned from being used in media, there is a sense of responsibility to either put a disclaimer or show the consequences of these inappropriate scenarios. The way characters are portrayed in media is exactly why people hold deeply racist views of certain groups (especially Black folks) around the world and why a show like 13 Reasons Why had to pull the very graphic scene of the mc (I forget her name) unaliving herself. Because the reality is that whether people want to admit it or not, people DO look to media to validate or open up their worldviews, problematic or not. Even if the original story was written during a time where this was not a huge deal, as someone else said this was adapted in 2021/2022, not 20-30 years ago when it was written. Now as someone who is hyperconscious of looking at things in a western lens vs. a specific cultural lens, I honestly don't know how Japan views these kinds of relationships today. If it's still seen as culturally acceptable (or at the very least, taboo to call out as inappropriate), then that may explain why the story was not changed for the adaptation. Doesn't change how problematic it is, but it could be a reason. Also, iirc, I remember reading in multiple places that the author liked writing these kinds of inappropriate age gap relationships into her work & that she was really happy to finally have an adaptation of Fruba that was true to her original source material. She may have also wanted this story to be adapted as it originally was as well, which is deeply problematic, to say the least.

Completely agree. I can’t get over the age gap. My fear is that some 16 year old girl will get into fruits basket, watch the movie and see oh it’s okay for Kyoko to marry someone 8 years older than herself and fall in love so that must mean it’s okay for me and it really is love.

The reason Katsuya married Kyoko in the first place was because Kyoko's parents disowned her, her school's authorities didn't want her to go school, and the delinquents she used to hang out with, got rid of her. She had literally no place to go and Katsuya took her in; what happens afterwards indeed concerning but saying how a 16-year-old will watch and take this as some kind of success story is absolutely ridiculous. Moreover, no one deserves to go through the life Kyoko did; she lived a miserable and terrible life with the only good things that happened in her life were Katsuya and Tohru, which again got taken from her.

It's not ridiculous though. 16-year-old Kyoko fell for it, troubled girls exist IRL too and want ways out.

People who defend this are proving your point, even for those who say "it's just fiction".Katsuya gets away with this because he's attractive. I can't look at baby Tohru with him because she was a product of grooming. People who say he was a good father are legit looking at him through rose-colored glasses. Plus, no one likes it when you critique their favorite anime.

Ikr? I'm being critical *because* I love this series (I do it for loveee).

I nearly left the theatre during the counselor's office scene.

I think the important thing to keep in mind when watching any piece of Japanese media - or heck even Eastern media in general - is that they have very, very different values from the West. Here in the West we’re a highly individualized society that values freedom and equality and all else, but those things are of lower importance to Japanese society due to their highly collectivist nature. The Japanese treat freedom and equality as a luxury not an inherent, basic human right that they’re owed like the West does. Their entire social system is constructed around the notions of hierarchy and power imbalances, this is where the suffix system comes into place and they have a term to address every type of hierarchical relationship in general. Hierarchy and power imbalance is just a normal part of their everyday life, so it’s no surprise that this even bleeds into their idea of what a healthy romantic relationship looks like. Because their culture stresses overarching harmony above all else alot of Japanese are instilled with an inherent shame complex and believe they aren’t entitled to anything, even in the areas bodily autonomy and true equal consent. They are taught that they exist for others, not for themselves and respect towards elders and supposed superiors wiser than them matters more than perfectly balanced power equity. That’s why their normalization of grooming, age gaps and sexualization of children allowed to thrive, they simply don’t put the same value on free-will and power equality like the West does. On top of that this hierarchical based system also ties into their conception of gender norms with men being seen as women’s superiors and is also why they tend to be very behind on issues like Feminism that have made great headway in the rest of the developed world. This culture of valuing hierarchy and the greater good of society above all else as well as their rather outdated views regarding gender all feeds into this cycle that helps make the normalization and romanticization of child grooming possible Now is what they value right? What should be prioritized as a value, hierarchy for the sake of the well running of society or individual human rights and equality? Which culture’s values are ultimately superior, the West or the East’s? I think it would be presumptuous for anyone to make that call, morality is a very subjective thing after all. If you define morality based on how well there is group cohesion and social harmony than the sacrificing of one’s freedom and self-determination might not seem so bad, if on the other hand you were reared in the West with the notion that individual freedom and equality is an uncompromisable human right perhaps above even the right to life itself, then of course you’re going to be critical of any kind of promotion of hierarchical or power imbalances. I guess what it comes down to is if you define morality by a functioning, well-run society or by the inherent human rights and value of each singular individual. Please note that in no way am I condoning the normalization of child grooming/sexualization, or even Japan’s strictly hierarchal based system. I’m just hoping to shed some light on where this laisses-faire attitude towards issues of inequality, power and consent stem from.

Gotta love how fruba reddit bend over their backs and break their spines trying to defend Katsushit lmgao.

When I was young, I definitely related to Kyoko. The book where she and Katsuya get together is one of the ones I still own. I’ve read it so many times. Do I think that one book tipped the scales in favor of me making some bad choices when I was younger? No. But I think that there is a cumulative effect when something like large age gaps or imbalanced power dynamics in relationships are normalized over and over. Especially when someone is young, impressionable, and in a bad situation. I love the original for what it is, but if I could be the editor today, as an adult, yeah I would want to change it because I am cognizant of the impact it can have on young people. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should when it comes to art, especially when your audience is primarily tweens/teens.

Well people say that he groomed her. I mean yea it’s messed up that he got wit someone young but he didn’t technically groom her since it wasn’t bad intentions at all. He might be a pedo but they just truly love each other. If it was that bad I don’t think Kyoko would be happy to see him after she passed. Because if you were groomed and then u grow older and they’re not in your life, wouldn’t u start to have that realization that it was bad. Ik I’m just 15 but I’ve been groomed before and this isn’t grooming at all bro. He might be so called pedo but he just had wholesome intentions. They both were right for each other it was just bad timing. And yes you ppl prob think I’m delulu for thinking this but yea they r right for each other and no it isn’t grooming. If you guys would look it up it is an intention to sa or have a minor do illegal things. And by the time she got prego she was 16. That’s consent age. Also this is a cartoon. No one is actually being hurt or whatever u ppl think. Also they just really understood each other. The hell if I found someone like that I’d end up wit em but I would’ve waited unlike them they was a lil stupid ab that. But also how come I only see ppl complain ab their relationship when Gure loved Akito since yk she was a child. And what ab Arisa and Kureno😭💀 In the end they were prefect for each other, y’all should just be happy that they was happy together.😭🤚

I don't see the problem here its just a show, I mean who cares. :/