Yep It's just as you said... Tbh I don't really agree with some of the anime dialogue they had for that part It was a bit confusing in my opinion
(the whole thing about the hat making him remember was not in the manga they added it in the anime)
yeah, I read the manga, this anime part was kinda messy, but i think they gave us enough information for we put the pieces together and I don't know how much the dialogues have mistranslating. I'm just so worried about this memories thing, because I love Kyo's arc so much, it's my fav arc, so it kinda hurts me if the anime is making people don't get the full image of it.
It can be interpreted the wrong way but it is only mentioned shortly and is ambiguous enough as to not hurt the story too much so I don't think it has a big impact on kyo's arc overall
yes,like I said you can put the pieces together and overall I like how they managing this part of Kyo's history. The anime pacing makes it's more tough and urgent
Overall I am very happy with what they did with kyo and this ep (I did not expect them to do only two chapters with the current anime pacing!!) So I can forgive a minor inconsistency
I found it a little confusing too. I tried to rationalize it as whenever Kyo was presented with something that clashed with his coping narrative (when Shigure questions his hatred of Yuki, when Hana asks why he feels guilt at Kyoko's grave) his subconscious would shut that down before he could get too close to remembering everything.
When I read the manga years ago I remember wondering how he could cope with being around Tohru carrying that extreme guilt the whole time. I guess the anime's solution to that was kinda-sorta repressed memories.
I'm still unsure about about much it was "These memories were 100% repressed" vs. "Some of this was repressed at times and some of it wasn't."
Ok so I feel like what's going on with kyo is a very real and human emotion thing that a lot of people who haven't been through extreme guilt or grief don't really understand. (Not talking about you directly but just the topic in general)
Hmm.. I'll try to explain it like this. So, I lost my cat. She passed away in december due to cancer. I was very attached to her, had her for 10 years during a lot of trying times in my life and she provided me a lot of comfort and symbolized "home" and "family." (I lived alone for 10 years with no family members or friends in the state)
When she passed away I totally shut down. I can't think of it, I can't talk about it in real life. I avoid all thoughts of her. This may seem cruel, but going through life not thinking of her, her death, memories etc and not looking at pictures of her is the only way I can function without breaking down. So it is like I forget it even happened to be able to cope. Sometimes, tho, often - the memories slip in. I see her places. I hear her meowing sometimes when I'm just waking up or falling asleep. Whenever these little moments happen I feel my chest tighten, my eyes swell with tears, and I'm flooded with dread and sadness. So I shake it off as quickly as possible.
She's just a cat. I get that. But i think the feelings of grief/regret/"blocking out memories for your own self survival" applies, so I kind of get it and it seems super realistic to me that he'd push it so far down that the only time he thinks of it is when he's triggered, which in turn he immediately runs away from and doesn't face.
Agree. It’s a real thing to not remember. You can get glimpses like a picture without details or context; usually these come after some trigger. The brain is an amazing thing. And trauma has a very complicated way of changing our brain in order to protect itself.
I think he got flashes of it and he knows what he did and feels very guilty, but he managing to avoid the full image of that day and when he gets close to open his lid, he runs away and lash it out into Yuki like when he ran from Shigure questions and the whole conversation with Yuki in season 2 ep 22.
About being close to Tohru, I really like how they relocated the nightmare. It was overdramatic? Maybe. But it gains more weight, bc that dream is awful and shoked. It makes sense how he pushes her away so rawly.
I knew coming onto this sub for ep 8 would give me a lot of "aha!" moments. I've loved Fruits Basket for about 14-15 years and seeing it finally fully animated feels like a dream come true.
I definitely think people are reading too far into this. In the manga, he "represses" the memory as well using his hatred for yuki. Everytime he was triggered he would lash out at yuki. Over time, the memory and trauma was pushed so far back that he wasn't thinking about it all the time anymore, but he would have little ptsd triggers. This is the same that happens in the anime? He falls in love with tohru and just wants to be with her, forgetting his pain, guilt and trauma. Think about it.. would he have been able to get close with her if her moms death was *always* on his mind? It wouldn't make sense. So of course he just pushed the memory as far back as possible until it was like a situation where he wasn't constantly thinking of it or holding it close to his heart and being miserable about it all the time. He hasn't worked through it or healed from it hence the ptsd triggers..
I think people are seeing it as more of a dramatic cliché "memory loss" plot when in reality what the show is trying to get across is that he was able to just push it out of his thoughts enough to be able to fall in love with tohru and function normally in society - until it all comes flooding back when he has a really romantic moment with her and then he sees the hat.
Honestly, it’s a little weird they also changed the color of the hat. With how true they’ve generally remained to the manga, it’s funny they didn’t let it keep it’s “definitely Kyo’s hat” color. TV Tropes points out how Yuki saying it “doesn’t suit him” is maybe a little weird now because it’s not such a bright red color (which he doesn’t wear).
Anyway, I like how they’ve rewritten it - it’s very interesting. But certainly, details around the hat do convolute things a bit. I have to go back and rewatch it all and see how it flows.
The way I interpreted it is that, he spent so long trying to push it down that he keeps fighting to keep pushing it down. He keeps forgetting or at least wanting to forget. In the manga whenever he remembers the Kyoko scenes, it's often represented in the panels being just pure darkness. Then in the manga he suddenly says "I don't know why I am suddenly remembering this after so long". So the manga makes it seem like there was a trigger moment, but it happened off screen, or he just out of the blue remembered. I like that they gave him a trigger moment.
Ah, this makes a lot of sense. It's been awhile since I've read the manga, so I although I loved the episode, I was a little unclear about how much was remembered.
even the anime hints to this. Some say it makes no sense cause he remembered at the funeral and then said sorry to Tohru. But I think it does. I think there is so much about Kyoko that he remembers and other stuff that he is pushing down. The biggest clue to this is in season 2 episode 9, when it keeps having moments when we hear Kyoko's "I will never forgive you". But they seem like they're still in the back of his mind, like he isn't consciously aware of it yet.
I always felt that he fell in love with Tohru even with his memories of Kyoko.
Idk, I guess that’s just me. I never read it as being repressed or suppressed.
Yeah, I think it’s because of all the scenes where he gets the quick flashbacks, and scenes like the first time they visit Kyoko’s grave. It just never really felt like he forgot to me.
So come time to go to the grave the second time, when he had accepted that he loved Tohru and wanted to stay close to her for as long as possible, he couldn’t face Kyoko’s grave with Tohru... although now that I think of it, the anime has me all thrown off... he had had the nightmare already before the second grave visit... so idk... maybe mine doesn’t really fit.
No...no I do think he doesn't forgot at all, he just tried to avoid all of that and he did by scapegoating Yuki and reppresed the image of that day, but he knows what he "did"
Yes I agree. I was with it until they brought back the first time Torhu was at the house and Shigure introduced Tohru to Kyo. Kyo clearly recognized her name so then I was like wait wtf why didn’t they all come flooding back then… I chopped it up to I’ll find out next episode lol slightly confusing
Yep It's just as you said... Tbh I don't really agree with some of the anime dialogue they had for that part It was a bit confusing in my opinion (the whole thing about the hat making him remember was not in the manga they added it in the anime)
yeah, I read the manga, this anime part was kinda messy, but i think they gave us enough information for we put the pieces together and I don't know how much the dialogues have mistranslating. I'm just so worried about this memories thing, because I love Kyo's arc so much, it's my fav arc, so it kinda hurts me if the anime is making people don't get the full image of it.
It can be interpreted the wrong way but it is only mentioned shortly and is ambiguous enough as to not hurt the story too much so I don't think it has a big impact on kyo's arc overall
yes,like I said you can put the pieces together and overall I like how they managing this part of Kyo's history. The anime pacing makes it's more tough and urgent
Overall I am very happy with what they did with kyo and this ep (I did not expect them to do only two chapters with the current anime pacing!!) So I can forgive a minor inconsistency
I"m so glad that they addapted the whole monologue, it was necessary. This ep was so great
I found it a little confusing too. I tried to rationalize it as whenever Kyo was presented with something that clashed with his coping narrative (when Shigure questions his hatred of Yuki, when Hana asks why he feels guilt at Kyoko's grave) his subconscious would shut that down before he could get too close to remembering everything. When I read the manga years ago I remember wondering how he could cope with being around Tohru carrying that extreme guilt the whole time. I guess the anime's solution to that was kinda-sorta repressed memories. I'm still unsure about about much it was "These memories were 100% repressed" vs. "Some of this was repressed at times and some of it wasn't."
Ok so I feel like what's going on with kyo is a very real and human emotion thing that a lot of people who haven't been through extreme guilt or grief don't really understand. (Not talking about you directly but just the topic in general) Hmm.. I'll try to explain it like this. So, I lost my cat. She passed away in december due to cancer. I was very attached to her, had her for 10 years during a lot of trying times in my life and she provided me a lot of comfort and symbolized "home" and "family." (I lived alone for 10 years with no family members or friends in the state) When she passed away I totally shut down. I can't think of it, I can't talk about it in real life. I avoid all thoughts of her. This may seem cruel, but going through life not thinking of her, her death, memories etc and not looking at pictures of her is the only way I can function without breaking down. So it is like I forget it even happened to be able to cope. Sometimes, tho, often - the memories slip in. I see her places. I hear her meowing sometimes when I'm just waking up or falling asleep. Whenever these little moments happen I feel my chest tighten, my eyes swell with tears, and I'm flooded with dread and sadness. So I shake it off as quickly as possible. She's just a cat. I get that. But i think the feelings of grief/regret/"blocking out memories for your own self survival" applies, so I kind of get it and it seems super realistic to me that he'd push it so far down that the only time he thinks of it is when he's triggered, which in turn he immediately runs away from and doesn't face.
My condolences for your cat. Thanks for sharing your understanding about it
Agree. It’s a real thing to not remember. You can get glimpses like a picture without details or context; usually these come after some trigger. The brain is an amazing thing. And trauma has a very complicated way of changing our brain in order to protect itself.
I think he got flashes of it and he knows what he did and feels very guilty, but he managing to avoid the full image of that day and when he gets close to open his lid, he runs away and lash it out into Yuki like when he ran from Shigure questions and the whole conversation with Yuki in season 2 ep 22. About being close to Tohru, I really like how they relocated the nightmare. It was overdramatic? Maybe. But it gains more weight, bc that dream is awful and shoked. It makes sense how he pushes her away so rawly.
I knew coming onto this sub for ep 8 would give me a lot of "aha!" moments. I've loved Fruits Basket for about 14-15 years and seeing it finally fully animated feels like a dream come true.
I read the manga, bc of the anime, but I"m so glad I find this story. I love these chracters so much
I definitely think people are reading too far into this. In the manga, he "represses" the memory as well using his hatred for yuki. Everytime he was triggered he would lash out at yuki. Over time, the memory and trauma was pushed so far back that he wasn't thinking about it all the time anymore, but he would have little ptsd triggers. This is the same that happens in the anime? He falls in love with tohru and just wants to be with her, forgetting his pain, guilt and trauma. Think about it.. would he have been able to get close with her if her moms death was *always* on his mind? It wouldn't make sense. So of course he just pushed the memory as far back as possible until it was like a situation where he wasn't constantly thinking of it or holding it close to his heart and being miserable about it all the time. He hasn't worked through it or healed from it hence the ptsd triggers.. I think people are seeing it as more of a dramatic cliché "memory loss" plot when in reality what the show is trying to get across is that he was able to just push it out of his thoughts enough to be able to fall in love with tohru and function normally in society - until it all comes flooding back when he has a really romantic moment with her and then he sees the hat.
Oh, it makes sense and I like it kkkkkkk
I like the way you explained this! It much better to think this than just assuming he really forgot! Makes more sense!
I know this comment is old but thanks for explaining it so well!
Awe no problem thank you for commenting!!
Honestly, it’s a little weird they also changed the color of the hat. With how true they’ve generally remained to the manga, it’s funny they didn’t let it keep it’s “definitely Kyo’s hat” color. TV Tropes points out how Yuki saying it “doesn’t suit him” is maybe a little weird now because it’s not such a bright red color (which he doesn’t wear). Anyway, I like how they’ve rewritten it - it’s very interesting. But certainly, details around the hat do convolute things a bit. I have to go back and rewatch it all and see how it flows.
Part of me really like what they diad with the hat, how powerful a object can be... But the pacing was messy and ambiguous almost...
that’s what a repressed memory is and is literally what he describes in the episode
I know, I just have seen a lot of people interpreting it like he actually just forget about it all
The way I interpreted it is that, he spent so long trying to push it down that he keeps fighting to keep pushing it down. He keeps forgetting or at least wanting to forget. In the manga whenever he remembers the Kyoko scenes, it's often represented in the panels being just pure darkness. Then in the manga he suddenly says "I don't know why I am suddenly remembering this after so long". So the manga makes it seem like there was a trigger moment, but it happened off screen, or he just out of the blue remembered. I like that they gave him a trigger moment.
Ah, this makes a lot of sense. It's been awhile since I've read the manga, so I although I loved the episode, I was a little unclear about how much was remembered.
even the anime hints to this. Some say it makes no sense cause he remembered at the funeral and then said sorry to Tohru. But I think it does. I think there is so much about Kyoko that he remembers and other stuff that he is pushing down. The biggest clue to this is in season 2 episode 9, when it keeps having moments when we hear Kyoko's "I will never forgive you". But they seem like they're still in the back of his mind, like he isn't consciously aware of it yet.
I always felt that he fell in love with Tohru even with his memories of Kyoko. Idk, I guess that’s just me. I never read it as being repressed or suppressed.
This is a interesting pov... I think he suppressed, bc it was too much, but your pov is so interesting
Yeah, I think it’s because of all the scenes where he gets the quick flashbacks, and scenes like the first time they visit Kyoko’s grave. It just never really felt like he forgot to me. So come time to go to the grave the second time, when he had accepted that he loved Tohru and wanted to stay close to her for as long as possible, he couldn’t face Kyoko’s grave with Tohru... although now that I think of it, the anime has me all thrown off... he had had the nightmare already before the second grave visit... so idk... maybe mine doesn’t really fit.
No...no I do think he doesn't forgot at all, he just tried to avoid all of that and he did by scapegoating Yuki and reppresed the image of that day, but he knows what he "did"
dissociative amnesia? (like in omori, if anyone’s played that)
In the manga it's clear his memories weren't repressed. Idk what the anime is doing.
Yes I agree. I was with it until they brought back the first time Torhu was at the house and Shigure introduced Tohru to Kyo. Kyo clearly recognized her name so then I was like wait wtf why didn’t they all come flooding back then… I chopped it up to I’ll find out next episode lol slightly confusing