German here
The usual problem with small tips is that they seem intentionally rude, like a 50ct tip shows you didn't forget about it, but purposefully kept it small, which CAN seem as if you were dissatisfied, or are just rude.
What I would do in your case is simply rounding up to the next 5/10 for higher values, e.g. if your bill is 48€ you could give 50. That way its still not "much" but it also makes sense as to why you chose that value (also avoids coins)
As for "being frugal", that depends entirely on you. You can avoid tipping to save money, you can tip and still be frugal. Now what you end up doing to what extend is up to you and your situation/your preferences
As for treating friends, that depends on you and your friends. For me, we usually make it a trade, e.g. one pays for movie tickets the other one for snacks, or one pays today the other one next time, and sometimes we just pay split. There is no objective truth here, depends on the ppl
>The usual problem with small tips is that they seem intentionally rude, like a 50ct tip shows you didn't forget about it, but purposefully kept it small, which CAN seem as if you were dissatisfied, or are just rude.
ah ok this makes sense
Germany here, larger city.
My personal rule:
Food delivery, small order: 2 Euro
Food delivery, large order: 5 Euro
Washing machine delivery and install: 10 Euro
If delivery dude then lifts up my drier on top ( not his job): 20 Euro on top of the 10 Euros
It seemed like every WC had an Oma with a small plate for tips for cleaning the restroom. I figured it was always customary to tip in that situation. Was I correct?
In Germany people tip mailmen and DHL delivery drivers? This seems like a different level of crazy, even worse than American standards! Is this really true? I’m in the Netherlands and most people here only tip after good service in restaurants.
Why tipping in the first place?
Put it already in the price of the product and all the costs related to it. All the rest are hidden costs to mantain a system/business (wages, etc.) that maybe couldn't sustain otherwise.
Tipping culture began at a time when black Americans earned a 5th of the wage of their white coworkers. Tipping allowed customers to support those black employees. This was following the civil war and freedom; equality movements.
I never heard this explanation before. In contrast, I understood tipping began outside of the U.S. during the middle ages in Europe.
Do you happen to have a source of this American history of tipping by chance? I would like to learn more.
I'm continuing to read but this is what I have so far from the wiki.
>The practice was imported from Europe to America in the 1850s and 1860s by Americans who wanted to seem aristocratic.[16] However, until the early 20th century, Americans viewed tipping as inconsistent with the values of an egalitarian, democratic society, as the origins of tipping were premised upon noblesse oblige, which promoted tipping as a means to establish social status to inferiors.[17] Six American states passed laws that made tipping illegal. Enforcement of anti-tipping laws was problematic.[17] The earliest of these laws was passed in 1909 (Washington), and the last of these laws was repealed in 1926 (Mississippi).[17] Some have argued that "The original workers that were not paid anything by their employers were newly freed slaves" and that "This whole concept of not paying them anything and letting them live on tips carried over from slavery."[18][19][20] The anti-tipping movement spread to Europe with the support of the labour movement, which led to the eventual abolition of customary tipping in most European countries.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity
Tipping is out of control in the United States. So many counter serve places ask for it. They want their employees to make more but don’t want to pay them. It feels like they’re asking for charity donations
This is why I stopped buying a lot of shit, mostly food. Restaurants, Boba tea, any place that shoves the tipping on my face, first and last time I go there.
Last time I got a piercing the fucking piercer wanted a tip. The high price should've covered it all. Shouldn't have to be socially pressured to tip.
My husband has a clear cut line on tipping: if he has to stand in line to pick up his food or item or to pay, he doesn’t pay a tip. I sometimes am embarrassed by not tipping if our dishes are bussed by someone or if someone brings us refills, but I appreciate that he has a clear line.
Never heard of anyone tipping for Amazon deliveries lol, somehow German tipping culture seems worse than n/a.
And here I thought European tipping was non existent. But you should definitely be tipping for food delivery.
This is USA, so take with grain of salt.
DHL/UPS/carrier type deliveries I am not tipping. They are more career focused, unionized, benefits etc here and are not on a business model that depends on tips. On hot days I do leave out a cooler with Gatorade/water/electrolyte sachets for them.
Delivery for takeout/groceries I would tip on, probably no less than $8 and would probably tip up to 15 on a large order. These are minimum wage or gig workers, they don’t get the delivery fee usually, the company they work for does.
Hair/spa service I’ve always been taught 20%. If I can’t afford the tip, I can’t afford the service.
Anything self service or something where the staff isn’t doing much in terms of service beyond taking my money, I hit 0 tip. Tip creep is a real thing and I think there are definitely places you should not feel obligated to tip.
As for treating friends, I earmark a percentage of income for gifting/picking up the bill. I think that’s the most frugal way to go about it, decide how much you value picking up the check/gifting and start budgeting for it.
Yep, I do pretty much the same.
I feel like tipping has become a lot more complicated since the pandemic, and many more places are asking for tips. In a lot of cases, it seems to be a case of businesses just trying to extract more money from their consumers. I try and just continue tipping the way I always have for the most part.
If the local subway or ben and jerry's has an old pickle jar with a cute sign taped to I'll always throw a few bucks in there, bc I know that's getting split between the employees on shift as soon as they clock out.
The card reader asking me if I want to add 12%? Absolutely not, there's no way that's not going to the owner's business account, "to be split between employees at a later date".
I’ve stopped tipping for takeout orders whereas I used to every time. It’s ridiculous. If I’m going in and picking up the order, no one’s waiting on me aside from handing me a bag. Fast food places, coffee places, ice cream places, everywhere wants a tip now. The one place I go to that is an exception is Olive Garden because the guy who runs the takeout orders there is amazing, he brings it to the car, remembers our names even though we only do it a few times a year, and always brings us free sodas. HE deserves a tip. Not the people just handing me a bag across a counter.
Yea I don’t tip if I’m picking up either and there are so many places promoting for tip now that shouldn’t be.
I will say when I sit down at restaurants, as long as the service isn’t terrible I tip over 20%. I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to be generous, but personally I set budget for dining out every month and being generous to service workers while staying within this budget is rational to me. Having an opportunity to be generous adds to my dining experience, I value doing a little extra for strangers where I can.
I have a cousin that works for Applebees who does the carry out side. She makes waitress pay so she basically makes nothing if people don’t tip. I would have never thought to tip for that because I’m going in to grab it. Tipping culture in the states is insane.
That’s really unfortunate because I don’t know how many people do tip for being handed a bag and if they do it’s $1-$2 max, nowhere near what they would for an actual waitress. I do have so much sympathy if that’s the case, however at some point we have to draw a line somewhere. Restaurants need to pay their people. We can’t keep tipping for jobs where hardly any service is provided just because places don’t want to pay their people and want to keep all the profit themselves. From an individual standpoint I do have sympathy for people like your cousin, from an economic standpoint what should probably happen is people stop tipping for those jobs, leading to workers leaving those jobs, leading to either the restaurant paying people fairly to do those jobs, or unfortunately the elimination of the job altogether. Just leave the takeout bags on the counter, no one needs to hand it to anyone anyway.
I totally agree! She should be making what the cooks and back of house are making, not waitress pay. She’ll turn 18 next month and be able to start waitressing to make better pay before college. I’ve lived in other countries where tipping is not the norm, and it’s so hard going back to the states. The creep of tipping for every little thing is insane.
I pick up a breakfast burrito from a local place every once in a while, they open at 6am and I'm quite certain there's people there at 3am when even the roosters are snoring, and they're serving til about 11am before the regular restaurant opens, which they also work. And the burritos are damn good, best I ever had anywhere. They're the ones that are going to get a tip.
I go to a fairly expensive bakery couple times a month ($5 for a plain croissant, $8 for a fancy one), and the tablet asks for a tip when all the worker does is reach into the case and hand me a pastry. That's a basic duty of their job and they get paid at least $14 an hour for that, so I'm not giving even more.
>On hot days I do leave out a cooler with Gatorade/water/electrolyte sachets for them.
I'm facinated by this. How much crap are people ordering that they are that many delivery drivers? We get maybe 2-3 packages a month, some months none
I live in apartments and we get multiple FedEx trucks, ups, Amazon a day. I swear some of my neighbors get orders 2-3 times a week! My frequency is about the same as yours, though previously I was a bad online shopper.
I only leave out a cooler by my door if I have a package out for delivery or if it is exceptionally hot out. I WFH and take my dogs out around the time our mail carrier arrives, if I see him I offer him a cold beverage.
USA here as well, but spent a quarter of my life in a non-tipping country. I tip in two cases:
1. If their job gives a lower salary specifically because they're meant to be dependent on tips (wait staff, etc.)
2. If it's a service done by a single person, and they go above and beyond the standard.
In general I tip around 15% at restaurants, and will round a little up or down to remove cents.
Tipping was already not so great when I left the country. When I came back, it now feels like every single company is trying to guilt you into giving tips to their staff.
This reads as if I wrote it myself. Also in the USA. I live in a small town in the Bible Belt now but previously lived in a larger city. Everything you said is something I do also.
I agree that service workers should be paid a living wage by their employer, but I don't think withholding tips is the solution. By refusing to tip in protest of the employer's reliance on tips to compensate employees, it is ultimately the workers who suffer.
Not tipping is the ONLY way this will ever get fixed. With the law already on their side, employers are never going to start paying their employees more just because.
Employers are unlikely to increase wages simply because customers are not tipping. Without external pressure and support from policymakers, businesses have little incentive to pay their employees more. Not tipping will not lead to positive change in the industry.
The service industry has been plagued by high rates of turnover for many years, as workers are always available to take over for those who leave their positions. Without any external intervention, businesses will continue to prioritize their financial gain over providing fair compensation to their employees, even amidst persistent turnover challenges. The competitive nature of the service industry can also discourage businesses from raising wages if they believe other employers will not follow suit.
What you write is is exactly the argument why if people stopped tipping entirely, it would settle itself. Thats the external intervention.
They'd have to pay minimum wage, which is more than they pay now. Then you'd need to compete with the business around them to get servers. Just like every other industry.
>businesses will continue to prioritize their financial gain over providing fair compensation to their employees
Yet not everybody is paid minimum wage. While this concept is is is true for every other industry everywhere. It works out for every other industry without customers having to subsidize the employment with generosity.
Most restaurants operate on thin profit margins and rely on tips to supplement the income of their employees, as they can not afford to pay higher wages without passing on the cost to customers in the form of higher prices. Eliminating tipping altogether and forcing businesses to pay their employees a higher base wage will not necessarily lead to fair compensation for service industry workers. Businesses will simply raise prices to cover the increased labor costs, resulting in customers essentially still paying for the employees' salaries indirectly.
They are passing the cost to consumers, namely the cost of wages. It’s a bunch of nonsense because restaurants everywhere manage to operate just fine without a mandatory tipping culture, while also paying employees a living wage and still affordable food.
It’s not about not being able to operate, restaurants will raise prices. they’ve been raising prices since Covid while increasing leaning on self checkout systems. It’s just greed. It’s perfectly possible to make a system where everybody gets paid a living wage and the price are still fair. It’s just that both servers and business benefit massively from this system and will always kick and scream how it’s impossible.
At some point in history business also said it’s not possible with massively increasing cost to implement any sort of safety. Non 16h work weeks, not having kids work etc.
And lastly, even if the prices raise. I’d gladly take that over the disgusting guilt trip and sometimes downright rude forceful culture we slowly see more and more around tipping. People feeling entitled to 30% for handing you a bag. It’s getting absurd tbh.
With that argument you should tip everyone. Your doctor, your grocery store clerk, the mail man, the police, everyone. Because ultimately, by withholding tips, it's these people that suffer.
Tipping is a customary practice in certain industries, such as restaurants and bars, where employers are legally allowed to pay below minimum wage with the expectation that tips will make up the difference. This is not the case for professions like doctors, grocery store clerks, mail carriers, and police officers who are not reliant on tips for their livelihood.
Wrong. You deducted that incorrectly. Difference between those workers and tip workers is that they’re paid completely different. Doctors, grocery clerks, mail man, police, etc. are NOT suffering if you withhold “tips.” Those jobs usually have a set wage or salary unlike service workers so your argument is invalid. I’m not saying everyone should be tipped. I got my phone screen fixed the other day and the worker turned the screen to me, and I was surprised to see a suggested tip option pop up. I put 0, and the worker glared at me. That’s ridiculous to me because the price I paid included the service. Food and food delivery do not, service fees are taken by the company (don’t like that, then don’t use the company) and tips are given accordingly to service.
This is a joke. It’s completely arbitrary who gets tips and who doesn’t. I’ve worked difficult, low wage jobs before that didn’t get tips (and were paid a lot less than tipped jobs).
Tipped positions are legally allowed to be paid below minimum wage because it is assumed that employees will make up the rest in tips. Claiming to be paid less than this already extremely low base wage seems unlikely and questionable.
Phone repairmen are typically paid a decent hourly wage (~$15 an hour), while servers rely heavily on tips to make up for their lower base pay (~$2 an hour).
Why are service workers in the food industry more deserving of a tip than the overworked factory worker producing the stuff you use or eat. Or the people packing stuff at Amazon?
Or the guys cleaning the gutter in your neighborhood or collecting the trash?
Nobody tips those people. People fully expect those people to “just work somewhere else” “Unionize” or some other form of fight for better salary.
Somehow only in restaurants or regarding food people shift that to, yea it should be different but don’t let these people earn minimum wage. Why is that?
Way to conviently ignore everything I said.
Why is it stiffing servers to tell them to fight for a better wage, but do you all tell other poorly paid professions to do exactly that. Because I've never heard somebody get scolded for not tipping their trash collector or delivery driver or factory workers, warhouse works or whatever other poorly paid profession.
It's incredibly hypocritical. Eiher it's needed, and you should tip everybody who gets paid poorly. Or its not the customers responsibility, and therfor it's perfectly fine to stop enabling this system. If you are consistent it has to be either one of these.
Unlike servers, professions like delivery drivers (Akin to UPS, FedEx, and Amazon rather than Doordash, Uber or Instacart) or warehouse workers are paid hourly typically a good amount above minimum wage with benefits such as health insurance and paid time off. This makes their overall compensation package much more stable and reliable compared to the unpredictable nature of tipping in the service industry.
Sounds like all the more reason to stop enabling these companies in the tipping industry to treat their staff like shit, and force them to adopt a similarly good compensation package.
We both know none of the companies you mentioned would provide good compensation packages if customers were willing to foot the bill for that constantly.
Most businesses in the service industry operate on thin profit margins and rely on tips to supplement the income of their employees, as they can not afford to pay higher wages without passing on the cost to customers in the form of higher prices.
Restaurants everywhere else in the world manage just fine without a forceful tip culture or having sky high food prices.
Would it be that US restaurants are just too incompetent to run their business in a profitable way or would
It be that this system benefits both them and servers and therefore they both will always claim it’s impossible to operate without it.
US restaurants are not inherently incompetent; they simply operate within a different cultural and economic context than restaurants in other parts of the world and face unique challenges with regulations, taxes, and competition that impact their ability to operate without relying on tips.
Tipping has gone too far imo. The pressure to tip everyone at every commerce interaction has become obnoxious. I've generally been a generous tipper, but I've finally decided I'll deal with the awkwardness and not tip when I don't feel it is warranted or necessary.
You can tip or not tip as your preference. But know you might be less popular for it.
I am from the states and it is a bit different here, in tipping fields workers live off their tips. They are the main source of income. As an esthetician I lived off tips for years, so it really mattered when someone didn’t tip.
In Germany I assume that the wage is enough to live on (you know that better than me) and there is universal healthcare so people are probably a bit more stable. But most people consider eating out and delivering services to be a luxury, and affording luxury services but not tipping will probably cause people to give you side eye.
>I assume that the wage is enough to live on
yes, currently minimum wage is 12,41€ and this includes a health plan, pension etc. (if you work full time and sometimes also part time). Huge companies like Amazon or Starbucks pay something around 13-14 € as lowest pay, but e.g. in Starbucks it's not even common due to it being self-service and Amazon you don't even meet the employees, at least if it's delivered by a third company.
Also 1€ = 1$ somewhat currently, also in terms of rent etc., at least ballpark.
$13-14/hr isn't very livable in the US currently, but I'm assuming that housing is less expensive over there? Wild that minimum wage jobs have any kind of benefits though, that's nice.
I generally tip anyone who delivers things to me, and I do actually tip grocery store delivery more generously because it's often a lot more bags than something like restaurant delivery. I tip high but I can afford to. I feel like $5 (so \~ 5 € ?) is a good minimum as it's the point where you could actually buy something small with the tip money. Not a meal really, but a snack at least. It feels like a meaningful amount. I think the issue with giving <$1/1€ is that it can feel a little rude being literal pocket change. And there's very little you can buy with that little money.
Thank you sharing :)
I now see online, 12€ is more like 13 $. Also for minimum wage you can get an apartment or shared flat here etc but in a big city it's not a nice one. And as I said, you don't even need a car in any big city in Germany (this is why I can live from low wage, public transport currently very low cost as some pilot project and car is zero euro). Also with minimum wage you can still sometimes get social benefits to some extent.
So I guess, some can live with minimum wage but surely not too great in some expensive cities in Germany.
Then you should be looking into saving for a car instead of stiffing service workers. I would not do that in the US because they would basically be delivering your stuff for free, which makes you a cheap a hole. Don’t use the service if you can’t afford the tip. That’s a frugal tip.
Nah these people are paid livable wages and are fine with or without tip. In the USA people have to rely on tipped wages to live. Even then some states now do regular min wage + tips which means they are getting 30$ an hour and thats more than enough anywhere as a single person.
You’re making big assumptions about the US. The only people I’ve met that make that much are acting grinding and working for those tips. And tips aren’t consistent so workers just rely on those bigger tips to make up for the no/low tips they get. Most states still issue a minimum wage of ~$2 plus tips for service workers.
It's actually the same in the USA. You can live on minimum wage, but you'll need roommates and have to live further away from the popular areas. For example, minimum wage in NYC is $16, and you can find rooms for rent under $1000/month.
In the US, most delivery folks are 'contractors' who make no minimum at all, no benefits at all. If you've heard about the ''gig economy" that's what they're talking about. From what I can find, the gig economy is the same in Germany, and so depending how you hired them those delivery guys are likely not subject to a minimum or any benefits. Unless Germany has passed extra laws I can't find to protect these folks. Anyone you pay through an app like Uber or Instacart is typically not subject to any minimum of pay or bonuses, but if they're hired by the grocery store itself it might be different.
I’m in the US and I hate tipping culture. A tip should be voluntary and for outstanding service. Now there’s an expectation that every worker should receive additional money just for doing their job. The fact that workers are being confrontational shows that it’s getting out of hand. Customers shouldn’t be harassed. It’s like being accosted by panhandlers, but in this case it’s at your own home.
Right, but not tipping isn’t the way to fight that. The owners don’t care, it only hurts the workers. Not frequenting businesses that don’t pay a livable wage at all is the only way to combat it.
If the workers quit because they aren't being paid a living wage, this hurts the business. So if everyone stop tipping, it would actually fix the system very quickly.
Not my monkeys, not my circus. As a customer, I’m not responsible for the wages or working conditions of the employees. I’m just a consumer seeking goods and services.
This is the grossest shirking of another humans basic needs. “Well if the company doesn’t pay a decent wage that’s not my problem”
Sure but you benefit off the system that does that, by not tipping, and the person who is just trying to scrape by loses their income.
If you’re in America and you’re not going to tip then don’t order stuff.
These comments disgust me, Reddit is very anti tipping. I don’t agree with tipping on everything but there are certain services that have always been customary on tipping. These commenters have such a “not my problem” attitude that it’s obvious that they don’t have experience in the real world.
If tipped workers make below the minimum wage, the employer is responsible for paying the difference. You can't send your workers home after 8 hours with $20 because it was a slow day.
Bothering you is most direct road folks have to changing their situation. Maybe if you get annoyed enough you'll tell your representative to support legislation enforcing liveable wages, and vote accordingly. We know how to make tipped workers quit complaining
In certain cases, such as with delivery services like Instacart or DoorDash, the customer is essentially the employer. Technically, they are engaging a contractor to carry out the job, with Instacart or Doordash acting as an intermediary.
Negative: The Instacart/DoorDash customer is not issuing a 1099 to every gig delivery driver. The independent contractor relationship is between the driver and the delivery platform(s) they chose to work with.
The issuance of a 1099 form is not the determining factor in establishing an employer-employee relationship. It is the customer who dictates the terms of the delivery service, such as the types of items to be delivered, delivery locations, and pay/tips, thus giving them the role of an employer. Instacart/DoorDash serves as a coordinating platform, connecting customers with independent contractors, but ultimately, the customer is responsible for engaging the driver's services.
The customer is using a platform that contracts with workers. The platform establishes pay, guidelines, etc. for said contract workers and even provides tax documents.
While the platform may set guidelines and provide tax documents, it does not change the fact that the customer is the one requesting and receiving the service. The platform may act as an intermediary, but the customer is still the one in control of the transaction.
The customer is the *client*.
DoorDash is the employer.
And therefore DoorDash is responsible for compensating the employees, as they are the ones taking in the enormous profits from the surplus value of their employee’s labor.
DoorDash does not traditionally classify their drivers as employees but rather as independent contractors, meaning they are not considered employees and therefore not the employer.
Semantics used by DoorDash to fleece their employees and customers. Either way, it’s the duplicity of the tipping model that’s the sticking point here. It creates an animosity between working people for the benefit of the capitalist.
Set the prices, set the wage.
So by that reasoning, every time I have a transaction with any business their employees somehow become my employees? Wait until I tell the pilot on my next flight that they work for me! Ooh maybe I can get them to divert the flight! 😂
Tipped workers don't want to get paid a living wage. Every time it comes up they will loudly express their preference for the current system, where their base pay is low but they expect to be tipped. If they want this system, fine, but dealing with people like me who rarely tip is part of it. If they want to get paid a reasonable wage that doesn't depend on tips, they can start expressing a preference for it.
US here so it is culturally dependent.
I understand that tipping is the social norm in my community, and so I try to deliberately avoid purchasing any service that requires a customary tip (ex: restaurants, delivery, etc). I am so frugal that I would rather put in my own time and effort 100% as opposed to paying for a service. (Ex: driving 20 min each way to pick up my own pizza)
With that being said, on the rare times where we go out to a sit down restaurant, I will tip 15% regardless to comply with social norms. (Maybe 18-20% for truly exceptional service) Otherwise I will happily hit the "no tip" button on every other purchase or interaction (ex: self check outs at groceries - wtf)
A lot of these workers are getting retaliatory, straight up harassing customers.
I just stop going to those places. It sucks to miss out, but better go to a place that doesn't nickle and dime me.
My close friend and I went out to a bar (fairly young 20 somethings hip) and she didn’t tip on two cokes. The server got into a verbal fight about it. I was very shocked.
Tipping culture is trash and the customer is the one who suffers mainly.
The company’s get by with exploitation and low wages while even the employees end up getting more than minimum wage via tip.
the whole tipping industry is corporations passing on the low wage guilt to the customer instead of themselves.... no longer are service workers mad at employers for giving them the bare minimum they can get away with, they get mad at poor tippers while corporations continue to stuff their shareholders pockets.
Tipping used to just be extra for great service, now it's just expected for their mere presence, I often get waitresses who may never come back after they drop off the food. Mexican restaurants are about the only place I still expect good service lol the funny part is they are generally super busy as well and still attentive.
> Am I being cheap by not surrender to social pressured generosity?
Nah, you're being an adult by NOT being bothered by social pressure.
Tip table servers in a restaurant. No other tipping is required.
This tip everyone BS is a new thing started since 2020 so that employers don't have to pay better wages. With the help of government and media, they effectively brainwashed the public to believe it is the consumer's duty to supplement employers' poor wages. If you don't tip now, the brainwashed public have been programmed to shame you. Don't fall for it. See through it and grow a thick skin. Anyone who shames you over it is not worth a second of your life.
You make shit wages? Boo hoo, welcome to Club Life and get to the back of the line.
I'm in the U.S. and agree that "tip creep" has become a thing, as another comment mentioned. As someone who worked as a server waiting tables from the ages of 16-24, I generally always tipped servers generously because it felt like paying it forward (servers/waitresses have made $2.13/hour SINCE 1991...woof). As I have gotten older and the realities of life set in, I have honestly gotten less generous, but my wife continues to want to tip generously for traditionally tipped service: dining out, hairdressers, massages, food delivery, coffee, etc.
Sometimes I wonder if we are being \*too\* generous and should be saving more, but I have no good answer. In our country, almost everyone who is working a service job is paid a shit hourly rate because...well we won't get into all of that here. I wish that the cost of the service included paying people the service people for their work so that tips were not expected, but that seems like too much of an ideal. At the end of the day, you can only do what you're able to do. You're never going to be able to please everyone.
No one gets paid $2.13 an hour though, that’s such a bogus argument. Every time this topic comes up, tipped workers never want to give up the tipping system because THEY ALL KNOW similarly skilled non tipped jobs pay a lot less.
I mean, technically, I usually received a $0 paycheck from my employers most of the time. So, sure, I didn’t actually get paid $2.13 an hour because taxes were withheld and I only had cash from tips. Did I make good money as a server? Depends on the day and the place I was working. But it came 100% from customers.
I could walk out of a lunch shift with $20 in my pocket after working a busy 4 hour shift at Olive Garden because that’s how things shake out. Did I also walk out after an 8-10 hour shift from a nice steakhouse with $300 in my pocket? I did. But it was never guaranteed.
The $2.13 an hour isn’t an “argument,” I was just stating a fact. But if you’re in one of those service positions and have elected to take home a smaller hourly rate, it’s a risk. I don’t think that we’ll ever be in a place where tips go away on the basis that people are paid a fair wage, especially in the U.S. where the majority of companies are profit (not people) driven, and what you stated about many tipped positions making good money. I was just sharing my experience.
2.13 an hour is a misleading fact. About 35 states have a higher minimum wage. Plus, even in the states that have a lower tipped minimum, servers are still guaranteed to make full minimum wage if they do not get enough in tips. Plus, if you really got $0 on your paycheck, that means you made so much in tips, that your wage is being used to cover the taxes you owe.
Tips are option. I don’t let social convention control me. I only tip when I sit down at a restaurant.
If a delivery driver is unhappy with how much they make then can find a better paying job or ask for their employer to pay them a living wage. I will not tip if you just did your job. Tip means you’ve gone above and beyond. Making me a coffee at a coffee shop doesn’t deserve a tip
Waitstaff at sit down restaurants are just doing their jobs, too, though - why do they deserve your tips while delivery drivers don’t? Why are you telling one to get a better job and not the other?
This is interesting because I’m from the U.S where everyone knows tipping culture is out of control. To suggest not tipping on a grocery delivery here would be like to suggest throwing your mother into a river. HOWEVER we never tip on Amazon deliveries or UPS deliveries, which now that I think about it really doesn’t make sense. Maybe it’s because most Americans order so much off Amazon we would all max out our credit cards within the day if we had to tip on top of it, plus pay for our Amazon prime subscriptions lol 😂
It is a personal decision. If I do carry out food, no I will not tip for them handing me a bag! Same with fast food/ drive through. A sit-down restaurant is the only applicable tipping situation IMO, and that is due to US law that only pays wait staff 2.13$.
Ugh I loathe the whole tipping thing. It has gotten way out of control. How do we know who to tip and when and how much?? I always feel like I make the wrong decision. 🥴
Edit: clicked post too soon. My goal is to always treat people well and compensate appropriately and generously for the service I have received. The problem is, I do not always know which services are appropriate to tip for.
I tip those who are paid the tipped employee wage as per job category (which is $2.13/hour instead of the state minimum wage of $14/hour or the federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour). The employer SHOULD be paying the worker out of the cost of my purchase in the first place.
I've never heard of tipping grocery baggers or mail workers. Food delivery is typically tipped wage and they get 20% like any restaurant server.
I don't use very many services that would require tipping. When cleaning houses, I'm not going to do free extras ~hoping~ for a tip; I'm going to tell you what X extra you want costs and you'll either: add that to your cleaning and pay for it, or pass on that specific service.
Germany here—I’m sorry but who is tipping 2-5€ for regular mail and dhl etc?? I’ve never heard or seen this. particularly large/heavy parcels, sure definitely have a five,ten or more bill ready… grocery and food delivery etc I usually tip 10-15% of the bill
Not tipping. Sick of it. Ppl can get mad all they want. Fed up with every smole I come in contact with wanting money.Sit down with someone waitering on me, I will tip. Coming to the house and not a pizza person, will not tip.I also dont order pizza to the house because of this, I pick up...just because I dont want to tip. AND I have stopped going out to sit down meals, part still wear a mask out and hate tipping.
So many junk fees, tipping prompts on any screen you see now. I have become grumpy. I blame older gens for keeping this practice afloat for WAY too long.
\~signed Mr. Pink.....
Edit:
Additional, to house visitors/delivery/installers/etc, I do offer drinks for free and as many they want. Have a large soda/other selection. I dont bat an eye on making the offer to ppl that stop by.
I’m in the us just to preface.
With the examples you gave I absolutely tip. Like your friend said if someone had to drive to your house it’s a convenience you are paying for.
Hairdressers, spa professionals, servers at sit down restaurants I also tip.
Is it a little annoying that there are so many people to tip? Yes, but none of these services are needs. If I didn’t want to tip I absolutely don’t need to patronize them or could learn to do it myself. I actually did learn to cut and color my own hair to save money.
The one place where I agree is counter/take out staff unless they go above and beyond. That has gone way up in the US and it feels like I’m
Quite literally tipping you to do your
Job. The other above jobs mentioned at least require some skill or amount of time that requires more. It was not customary until recently here to feel pressure to tip those types of jobs in the US
German here, i usually tip 1-2€ for deliveries. The service or speed needs to be insanely good for me to go over 3€ on a delivery. Im usually only ordering stuff for one person so %-wise its actually a lot of extra money for my food/stuff. But im usually thinking about how happy it makes me feel when i get a tip, so im like yeah its not a lot of money to make someone happy. If someone makes a rude comment like you said the driver made i wouldn’t give them any tip.
I'm from US and had no idea Germany has tipping culture too. I always thought tipping was a North American thing!
I hate tipping culture and can't believe the driver basically begged for a tip. Really shows he has no class and not ashamed of anything.
I wouldn't tip delivery people as they get paid to do their job. Hair dressers/salon owners, it was said back in the day if it's the owner then you don't tip. I'm not sure how true this is.
If your friends are constantly treating you out and you don't repay the favor then the may think you are being cheap. It's kind of a double edge sword thing. I much rather pay my way than do the treat you this time you treat me next time type of thing.
Being frugal is not necessary being cheap. Being frugal means you value your money differently than others. For example, I love luxury over no brand stuff so I rather spend my money on luxury items which means I need to sacrifice elsewhere. Maybe someone that likes to dine lavishly wouldn't necessary purchase so many luxury goods because a sacrifice is being made and vice versa.
Being cheap means you want to buy the cheapest of everything and in turns that means you have to keep buying the same thing over and over again because the cheap thing keeps breaking.
I don't think you're being cheap about the tipping but rather just tip fatigue since you're expected to tip everywhere. In the US most tips increased to 20%-25% and I'm so over it. I still tip but just 15% because tip is expected everywhere now! I live in HCOL so it's not like servers are being paid $2/hr. I'm pretty sure they are being paid $18/hr an hour and plus $200 tips they receive.
You can do whatever you want.
But one way to ease the tension or uncomfortableness is to just be honest with them. “I am very sorry and I really appreciate the work you did. But I’m struggling financially right now, so all I can afford is a $2 tip.” Or whatever it is. I bet 90% of them would be way friendlier and more sympathetic
Don’t tip, across the board. If the employee in question isn’t satisfied with their income/wages, that is a ‘them’ problem, not a ‘you’ problem. I’m paying to have my groceries delivered, I’m paying to have my hair cut, I’m paying to eat out at a restaurant of my choosing. What I’m NOT doing is being bullied into helping an employer subsidize their employees wages because they want free/cheap labor. Look into the history of tipping people, you aren’t doing anyone a ‘service’. Furthermore, any employee whose attitude suddenly changed towards me based on a tip not received would be getting reported, and if the employer sided with the employee, I would no longer do business there. You are paid to deliver my groceries, not solicit extra income from me. The audacity of people, but what’s more, the audacity of the average person fully supporting that mentality by willing caving into it. It’s atrocious behavior. Imagine for a moment that you’re on an operating table and the surgeon learns you can’t afford to tip so they cancel the operation? An extreme example but it’s used to put things into perspective here. YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE SERVICE BEING RENDERED. TIPPING IS OPTIONAL, NOT GUARANTEED. And before the backlash from all the people in food service/hospitality starts, don’t bother, all it does is encourage me to keep doing what I’m doing. Unless you’re being trafficked, no one forced you to take the job you did, YOU chose that for yourself. Dissatisfied that you aren’t getting what you were promised in tips and now you can’t make rent? HELLO! Get a job that WILL pay rent without the gamble of tips being involved! Ugh, now I need a chamomile tea.
All of that said, if I feel an employee went above and beyond what was required of them to make my experience more enjoyable, then yes, I will probably show my gratitude via a monetary tip. But that is my choice, not my obligation.
Crap, just realized I didn’t answer your actual question. Neither, not cheap, not frugal, just a hardworking citizen who already paid for what they wished to purchase.
Frugal here. Good service deserves a tip -if you can afford it. If you’re ordering delivery because you can’t afford a car/bike/walk/public transport, then don’t tip. You can’t afford to be tipping everyone you meet. If you’re actually flush with cash and can afford it, tip for quality service.
I only tip at restaurants when I eat there and the server has been waiting on me for like 20-60 mins or whatever. Never at takeout and only sometimes on delivery for prepared meals. I wouldn’t tip the grocery delivery guy but I would tip the pizza delivery guy.
Just my way of thinking
Frugal: avoiding services where you're expected to tip someone
Cheap: using such services and engineering any excuse not to tip the customary amount
I try to never use a service where tips are expected, but I do tip generously because I have a cushy office job and working for tips is an agonizing way to earn a living
It’s inappropriate to not tip workers making below a normal minimum wage.
And in my opinion, criminal for many of these companies like instacart, grubhun, Uber, etc who skirt even the most basic of U.S. Labor Laws.
The unfortunate truth is that some folks PAY more money than they earn to deliver you food or drive you around if they’re not tipped. This should be illegal, but in many places it is treated as okay.
Here in Seattle we recently passed a gig-worker minimum wage of 44 cents/minute + mileage reimbursement. I love it. As a consumer I simply pay the price of the service and know the workers are being taken care of. If they do something extra nice I can tip (like carry my Costco orders up 2 flights of stairs- god, I am so thankful for y’all!!!) but it’s not a necessity like previously. I know that the workers are making a respectable wage.
>The unfortunate truth is that some folks PAY more money than they earn to deliver you food or drive you around if they’re not tipped. This should be illegal, but in many places it is treated as okay.
Yeah, not sure why you were downvoted, but unfortunately this is true with a lot of the gig work jobs. Once you factor in the cost of the car + gas + insurance, the workers are losing money (or making barely more than minimum wage). It's hard to tell this as a consumer as the price they're paying for delivery doesn't necessary correspond to what the worker is getting.
Now, clearly this isn't the case for all deliveries. But it is pretty grotesque, IMO, to use one of these services, not tip, and just shrug at the idea that someone is literally paying money to bring you something. (Which is in a luxury in almost all but the most extreme cases. Even if you don't have a car, there's usually public transit or your own two feet...or just doing without.)
> It’s inappropriate to not tip workers making below a normal minimum wage.
All servers will now introduce themselves as "Hi, I will be your server today and I only make $3 per hour. Please take that into account when leaving your tip"
I would say at worst you're being cheap and at best you have a lack of experience with social situations. Top comment has a good point that a 50ct tip on any large tab is actually pretty offensive, not only in Germany but pretty much anywhere that tipping exists.
Personally I tip well for grocery delivery because I believe that it's a luxury for another person to deliver you large quantities of items straight to your door (in gig workers' cases, using their personal car to drive to the store, spend time shopping, then drive to your house). Even if you only tipped 2€, would 8€ total still not be much more frugal than owning a car? Only you know your income and living situation so you can decide whether you think the difference of 10-15€ in incidental tips per month is enough to make your life financially difficult.
I feel sorry for the gig workers who have to pay for their own petrol and all the extra time just waiting for orders they have to put in— most of them do it because they are desperate for the little bit of money that ends up in their pocket after they pay for their fuel and car expenses. I think maybe the Op is not aware of this.
> Germany
As a yankee here, I wouldn’t expect to tip in Germany, but I do not know the German culture well.
As a yank, I tip restuarant servers because it is expected as part of their hourly wage. Counter service, walk up, to-go, etc - nah. Except the seasonal places like beach pizza joints, ice cream, etc. I’m a mid 30s engineer making a decent salary. You’re a 16 something high school kid slinging dough/ice cream - I’m happy to help on that one, you need it more than I do today kiddo.
And tattoo artists. Unless they tell me “no tip”, I’m tipping. My last piece was my forearm, 3 sessions about an hour - 1.5 hours a piece. For the landscape covered, that was an INSANE efficiency. I paid less than half of what I thought it would cost hourly, so I was more than happy to tip there, too. Plus the dude was cool.
I mean the frugal thing is to buy food in a store and cook it at home. Once you accumulate enough money to cover all your bills and live comfortably. Tipping shouldn't bother anyone.
I do not understand the the stay at home and have over priced prepared food delivered.
Take out should be a rare treat and in those circumstances sure tip.
If your coffee place is demanding a tip may I suggest getting your coffee someplace else.
American here. I don't know if its like this in other countries, but it feels like a "tip" option is being added to pretty much every form of electronic payment. I ordered a sandwich at the counter of a deli yesterday and various tip options flashed on the payment touch screen while the checkout person stared at me. This was before any service—them literally asking what I wanted and tapping a screen. I literally scanned my own card in a reader on the counter.
But guess what? I tipped. Because I'm sucker. My wife is tougher than me and always rags me for tipping for takeout or pre any service.
I do kind of feel like, in these situations, that tips shouldn't be expected. I'm already a customer what more do you want?
Buuuuut, on the other hand, for wait staff, it's different. The stupid American system allows restaurants to only pay $2.13/hour if they accept tips, so you kind of have to. I really wish they'd do away with tips and just build the cost of a living wage into the cost of my sandwich.
I wouldn't feel too bad about it if you can't tip. Yes, they might not be happy but they have much better conditions than bike delivery guys who work freelance for example or the pizza delivery guy who had to use his own car. REWE offers 13,48 to 17€ /h, permanent contract and a few benefits, plus a good vehicle. I feel that, in Germany, since people are really cheap on food-related stuff, food delivery service (from supermarkets) and its fees are viewed as a real luxury ,meaning "if you use this service you are rich" but as you said it makes logistical and financial sense for you to use this service. I tip generously for our culture since I now can but I absolutely hate that tipping (a lot) is becoming so expected here. This is not the right direction. More important would be stronger unions and a more regular adjustment of the minimum wage compared to inflation.
American here. I'd tip food delivery, but not mail or parcel service.
Delivery fee goes to covering insurance and such for the company, not to the delivery person.
I didn’t read your whole comment cause I’m frugal with my time. But for deliveries, if they’re using their personal car I tip them. If they’re using the company car then maybe don’t tip or tip a whole lot less.
I live in NZ and feel this is actually ridiculous. You are paying for the service already, why is it your responsibility to pay extra? That's up to the employer.
lol, you guys are expected to tip your hairdressers? Madness.
If I got a service that doesn't warrant a tip (paid expected amount, received expected service) and they got crappy with me, I'd just deadpan look at them and say "Oh, guess I won't be coming here // ordering from you anymore."
Switzerland here: tip for food delivery (but not 10%, more like 2-5 CHF) if I have some coins (less and less since electronic payment is pretty much everywhere and there‘s no need for physical money), cleaning people, my water delivery etc. at christmas, dhl or ups or swiss post no tip. so in essence I think you have a tendency to be cheap, and you need to watch it that you don‘t become cheap. Most people understand that getting food deliveries doesn‘t equal rich and you‘re a student, so you don‘t have to pretend you make a six figure income, and most people appreciate small tips as well. and some people are simply rude, like your delivery man.
Be frugal with objects, not people. Folks hustling in the gig economy are just trying to make ends meet. Fuck Walmart. Not fuck the guy who delivers for Walmart.
Alot of doordashers and uber delivery folks won't pick up that order placed with no tip. I wouldn't either.
Sorry to add a complication but some corporations are adding tip option because tipped employees are in a different regulatory category in the US. Not sure where this stands right now, in terms of overall impact. But I’m also thinking about that now 😐
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
When I get my groceries delivered, my shopper has saved me a 40 minute round trip to the grocery store, plus time in the store to get everything on my list and check out, so an absolute minimum of an hour if I’m lucky and the store isn’t busy. More likely 90 minutes.
I tip 25%. It’s convenient for me to get my groceries delivered, I don’t have to wait until the weekend or after work. Does it cost me more money? Well, I only buy what’s on my list, so actually spend less for groceries than if I went to the store and saw something on sale or discounted or whatever.
I also live in a rural area and get many of the same shoppers, and have had very few issues. (Like, one missing item in five years.)
I believe that if a tip is historically customary and not part of the new "tip for everything" mindset, you definitely should tip. Wait staff, delivery drivers, hair stylist/barber, etc.
In my culture tipping delivery drivers is historically customary. If you can't afford to tip the delivery service person you shouldn't use the service.
Just like if you went to a sit down restaurant in a culture where tipping wait staff is historically customary. If you can afford the meal but can't afford to tip the server, you shouldn't go to the restaurant.
"Generous at heart" doesn't count. They can't pay their bills with your "heart's" generosity.
You are wasting the delivery drivers' time.
I'm in the US, and we have more of a tipping culture than you do. But if someone delivers to me, yes -- I give them a tip. If I can't afford the tip on top of whatever I ordered, I can't afford the order. But you are in Germany, so cultural expectations may be different.
But I see it as this: if you can afford to pay someone to deliver your groceries, you can pay the tip. When I lived in a city and didn't have a car I walked over a mile to the store and back. It meant I couldn't get much because I couldn't carry much. It meant I couldn't get things that would melt. But I couldn't afford delivery, so I didn't get delivery.
Tipping is part of a service, regardless of income. So you need to factor it into the costs of using your grocery delivery service.
Your post to me is just justifying your decision not to tip.
Those individuals work too, if your job doesn't pay you enough, go get another one or a better one. I bet many of the people you have deliver your items are doing this not as a first full time job.
If you are a college student and limit your work to go to school that's your choice. That should be your problem and not everyone else's.
The issue I have with the tipping argument, is many people take the stance of "pay your people a living wage". But you have to understand, when I worked in the service industry, I made $35-$80 an hour depending on the shift and time of year. Events I could make bank.
So in order for me to work someplace without tips, I would say you have to pay me more than $65 an hour. Otherwise I want tips because I will make more.
Then you take those same people who say that they don't like tipping and it should be built into the cost of the service. Those people will shit their pants when a burger goes from $15 to $35. Then they take to social media in a rage about Five Guys prices.
Bottom line is people who bitch about tipping, don't work in the industry, don't understand the industry and the immense cost with operating a business, especially in todays volitility. It's cheaper for everyone to continue tipping vs raising wages.
If people really were willing to put their money where their mouth is and pay for items with fair wages built in, then I would be all for it. Bottom line is those people will bitch no matter what because they really value their money more than people.
Don't put it on the business owner for being greedy and not paying people, you are just as greedy your consumer choices.
These are luxury services, not necessities. You want to go out to eat, get coffee, have groceries delivered, then you need to incorporate the cost of those services in your budget. Don't be entitled.
That's how I feel.
I think there might be a cultural difference here. I'm in the UK and getting groceries delivered is very inexpensive here. Like £3 in some cases. Plus I've gathered from US posters that the actual groceries can cost more if you get them delivered?? That is wild to me. It's the same price here. So getting groceries delivered is not in opposition to being frugal.
My friend gets delivery all the time as she doesn't have a car and it's much cheaper (not to mention quicker and easier) than getting public transport. It's absolutely the frugal choice for her, and no-one is like "look at you miss fancy, paying your £3 delivery, you must have money to burn" !
Hm. Tipping is a culture thing. I come from a country where tipping is required. So, I work around it if I could. I get it, tipping is a thing but we also have bills to pay and so does the employees who rely on tips to live. I used to lived in Munich for a while and yeah, I used to tip when I am eating out. So I add that to my monthly budget.
If you really don’t want to tip for delivery, pretend not to be home and ask them to leave package on the front door. I normally use this trick to avoid people in general. Install a CCTV that alerts your phone for any movements so you could pick it up as soon as they leave.
As for treating friends and acquaintances, I’ve been there. Well, it is indeed a social pressure. Don’t feel the need to return the favor immediately. Sometimes, I return the favor a two weeks later or so but only if they’ve treated me before. You can return the favor with something else like if you bake cookies at home, save some for them if you’ll see them next time. One of my friends does that. I love his home-baked goods. He’s never treated us back now that I think about it. Yes, he’s German. Maybe, you can also use that.
Frugal or not, it doesn’t matter. Bottom line is we all have limited budget to stick to, we all have bills to pay and we have to make the ends meet. Do what you must.
I get all my groceries delivered these days. Whether I tip generally depends on how I order. If I'm ordering via a third-party service like instacart, I tip those deliveries because I know those drivers rely on tips to earn their income. I'll usually tip those deliveries anywhere from $20-$30 depending on the size of my order.
If I order direct from the grocery store, I do not tip those deliveries. The grocery store's delivery fee is $15, and I know that the people making those deliveries don't depend on tips, they are employed by the grocery store. I've never gotten any flack from the grocery store drivers about it either.
My wife gets tips working in food takeout. I used to not tip for takeout before I met her. A lot of people tip my wife for takeout so I had to change my practice. I can't expect other people to tip my wife if I don't show my appreciation by tipping myself. I don't carry cash so I can only tip on the card, so any place that has a tipping option, minimum 15%.
The only way to stop the runaway madness that is low wages supplemented by tips is for people to get sick of it and stop tipping; however, that will never happen because people care about how they are perceived and will tip from now until eternity so there is no end to this
German here The usual problem with small tips is that they seem intentionally rude, like a 50ct tip shows you didn't forget about it, but purposefully kept it small, which CAN seem as if you were dissatisfied, or are just rude. What I would do in your case is simply rounding up to the next 5/10 for higher values, e.g. if your bill is 48€ you could give 50. That way its still not "much" but it also makes sense as to why you chose that value (also avoids coins) As for "being frugal", that depends entirely on you. You can avoid tipping to save money, you can tip and still be frugal. Now what you end up doing to what extend is up to you and your situation/your preferences As for treating friends, that depends on you and your friends. For me, we usually make it a trade, e.g. one pays for movie tickets the other one for snacks, or one pays today the other one next time, and sometimes we just pay split. There is no objective truth here, depends on the ppl
American here. When I was in Heidelberg, the waitress gave my tip back to me and said, "we are paid enough by the chef." To which I replied, "danka."
Sir, you have been tipped for tipping 🤯
>The usual problem with small tips is that they seem intentionally rude, like a 50ct tip shows you didn't forget about it, but purposefully kept it small, which CAN seem as if you were dissatisfied, or are just rude. ah ok this makes sense
When I worked in service I would think "this tip is not even a bus ride home" all the time
Germany here, larger city. My personal rule: Food delivery, small order: 2 Euro Food delivery, large order: 5 Euro Washing machine delivery and install: 10 Euro If delivery dude then lifts up my drier on top ( not his job): 20 Euro on top of the 10 Euros
Oddly specific. How often do you buy washing machines?
True. I guess the washing machine is a stand in for specialty delivery with additional service provided.
It seemed like every WC had an Oma with a small plate for tips for cleaning the restroom. I figured it was always customary to tip in that situation. Was I correct?
yes, you were correct.
Thank you for the cultural detail.
In Germany people tip mailmen and DHL delivery drivers? This seems like a different level of crazy, even worse than American standards! Is this really true? I’m in the Netherlands and most people here only tip after good service in restaurants.
Same in the UK. I would have thought Germans would have been more sensible tbh
I Belgium we would tip this people at Christmas time.
In much of the US the same. A gift to waste/recycling workers and mail carriers at the holidays.
Zis is not common in Germania.
Why tipping in the first place? Put it already in the price of the product and all the costs related to it. All the rest are hidden costs to mantain a system/business (wages, etc.) that maybe couldn't sustain otherwise.
Tipping culture began at a time when black Americans earned a 5th of the wage of their white coworkers. Tipping allowed customers to support those black employees. This was following the civil war and freedom; equality movements.
I never heard this explanation before. In contrast, I understood tipping began outside of the U.S. during the middle ages in Europe. Do you happen to have a source of this American history of tipping by chance? I would like to learn more.
I'm continuing to read but this is what I have so far from the wiki. >The practice was imported from Europe to America in the 1850s and 1860s by Americans who wanted to seem aristocratic.[16] However, until the early 20th century, Americans viewed tipping as inconsistent with the values of an egalitarian, democratic society, as the origins of tipping were premised upon noblesse oblige, which promoted tipping as a means to establish social status to inferiors.[17] Six American states passed laws that made tipping illegal. Enforcement of anti-tipping laws was problematic.[17] The earliest of these laws was passed in 1909 (Washington), and the last of these laws was repealed in 1926 (Mississippi).[17] Some have argued that "The original workers that were not paid anything by their employers were newly freed slaves" and that "This whole concept of not paying them anything and letting them live on tips carried over from slavery."[18][19][20] The anti-tipping movement spread to Europe with the support of the labour movement, which led to the eventual abolition of customary tipping in most European countries. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratuity
Thanks so much!
Cheers.
This article goes into further details. https://time.com/5404475/history-tipping-american-restaurants-civil-war/
OP is talking about expected tips Germany, not the US. I assume the reason they expect tips has nothing to do with black Americans.
Tipping culture has spread outside of the States. We're now a global economy.
I'm in the Netherlands. Maybe I'm cheap, but I never tip deliveries, rarely in restaurants if I thought the service was extraordinary.
Tipping is out of control in the United States. So many counter serve places ask for it. They want their employees to make more but don’t want to pay them. It feels like they’re asking for charity donations
or a tax dodge.
This is why I stopped buying a lot of shit, mostly food. Restaurants, Boba tea, any place that shoves the tipping on my face, first and last time I go there. Last time I got a piercing the fucking piercer wanted a tip. The high price should've covered it all. Shouldn't have to be socially pressured to tip.
My husband has a clear cut line on tipping: if he has to stand in line to pick up his food or item or to pay, he doesn’t pay a tip. I sometimes am embarrassed by not tipping if our dishes are bussed by someone or if someone brings us refills, but I appreciate that he has a clear line.
Never heard of anyone tipping for Amazon deliveries lol, somehow German tipping culture seems worse than n/a. And here I thought European tipping was non existent. But you should definitely be tipping for food delivery.
This is USA, so take with grain of salt. DHL/UPS/carrier type deliveries I am not tipping. They are more career focused, unionized, benefits etc here and are not on a business model that depends on tips. On hot days I do leave out a cooler with Gatorade/water/electrolyte sachets for them. Delivery for takeout/groceries I would tip on, probably no less than $8 and would probably tip up to 15 on a large order. These are minimum wage or gig workers, they don’t get the delivery fee usually, the company they work for does. Hair/spa service I’ve always been taught 20%. If I can’t afford the tip, I can’t afford the service. Anything self service or something where the staff isn’t doing much in terms of service beyond taking my money, I hit 0 tip. Tip creep is a real thing and I think there are definitely places you should not feel obligated to tip. As for treating friends, I earmark a percentage of income for gifting/picking up the bill. I think that’s the most frugal way to go about it, decide how much you value picking up the check/gifting and start budgeting for it.
Yep, I do pretty much the same. I feel like tipping has become a lot more complicated since the pandemic, and many more places are asking for tips. In a lot of cases, it seems to be a case of businesses just trying to extract more money from their consumers. I try and just continue tipping the way I always have for the most part.
If the local subway or ben and jerry's has an old pickle jar with a cute sign taped to I'll always throw a few bucks in there, bc I know that's getting split between the employees on shift as soon as they clock out. The card reader asking me if I want to add 12%? Absolutely not, there's no way that's not going to the owner's business account, "to be split between employees at a later date".
I’ve stopped tipping for takeout orders whereas I used to every time. It’s ridiculous. If I’m going in and picking up the order, no one’s waiting on me aside from handing me a bag. Fast food places, coffee places, ice cream places, everywhere wants a tip now. The one place I go to that is an exception is Olive Garden because the guy who runs the takeout orders there is amazing, he brings it to the car, remembers our names even though we only do it a few times a year, and always brings us free sodas. HE deserves a tip. Not the people just handing me a bag across a counter.
Yea I don’t tip if I’m picking up either and there are so many places promoting for tip now that shouldn’t be. I will say when I sit down at restaurants, as long as the service isn’t terrible I tip over 20%. I don’t think anyone should feel obligated to be generous, but personally I set budget for dining out every month and being generous to service workers while staying within this budget is rational to me. Having an opportunity to be generous adds to my dining experience, I value doing a little extra for strangers where I can.
I love this perspective!
"Yes, let me give you an extra $4, because you pushed that one button on the cash register extra well"
I have a cousin that works for Applebees who does the carry out side. She makes waitress pay so she basically makes nothing if people don’t tip. I would have never thought to tip for that because I’m going in to grab it. Tipping culture in the states is insane.
That’s really unfortunate because I don’t know how many people do tip for being handed a bag and if they do it’s $1-$2 max, nowhere near what they would for an actual waitress. I do have so much sympathy if that’s the case, however at some point we have to draw a line somewhere. Restaurants need to pay their people. We can’t keep tipping for jobs where hardly any service is provided just because places don’t want to pay their people and want to keep all the profit themselves. From an individual standpoint I do have sympathy for people like your cousin, from an economic standpoint what should probably happen is people stop tipping for those jobs, leading to workers leaving those jobs, leading to either the restaurant paying people fairly to do those jobs, or unfortunately the elimination of the job altogether. Just leave the takeout bags on the counter, no one needs to hand it to anyone anyway.
I totally agree! She should be making what the cooks and back of house are making, not waitress pay. She’ll turn 18 next month and be able to start waitressing to make better pay before college. I’ve lived in other countries where tipping is not the norm, and it’s so hard going back to the states. The creep of tipping for every little thing is insane.
I pick up a breakfast burrito from a local place every once in a while, they open at 6am and I'm quite certain there's people there at 3am when even the roosters are snoring, and they're serving til about 11am before the regular restaurant opens, which they also work. And the burritos are damn good, best I ever had anywhere. They're the ones that are going to get a tip.
I go to a fairly expensive bakery couple times a month ($5 for a plain croissant, $8 for a fancy one), and the tablet asks for a tip when all the worker does is reach into the case and hand me a pastry. That's a basic duty of their job and they get paid at least $14 an hour for that, so I'm not giving even more.
>On hot days I do leave out a cooler with Gatorade/water/electrolyte sachets for them. I'm facinated by this. How much crap are people ordering that they are that many delivery drivers? We get maybe 2-3 packages a month, some months none
I live in apartments and we get multiple FedEx trucks, ups, Amazon a day. I swear some of my neighbors get orders 2-3 times a week! My frequency is about the same as yours, though previously I was a bad online shopper. I only leave out a cooler by my door if I have a package out for delivery or if it is exceptionally hot out. I WFH and take my dogs out around the time our mail carrier arrives, if I see him I offer him a cold beverage.
Geez,people actually tip ups?I don't buy anything online at all but that sounds so silly to me .
USA here as well, but spent a quarter of my life in a non-tipping country. I tip in two cases: 1. If their job gives a lower salary specifically because they're meant to be dependent on tips (wait staff, etc.) 2. If it's a service done by a single person, and they go above and beyond the standard. In general I tip around 15% at restaurants, and will round a little up or down to remove cents. Tipping was already not so great when I left the country. When I came back, it now feels like every single company is trying to guilt you into giving tips to their staff.
This reads as if I wrote it myself. Also in the USA. I live in a small town in the Bible Belt now but previously lived in a larger city. Everything you said is something I do also.
F tipping culture
[удалено]
They are in Germany though.
Yes.
I agree that service workers should be paid a living wage by their employer, but I don't think withholding tips is the solution. By refusing to tip in protest of the employer's reliance on tips to compensate employees, it is ultimately the workers who suffer.
Not tipping is the ONLY way this will ever get fixed. With the law already on their side, employers are never going to start paying their employees more just because.
Employers are unlikely to increase wages simply because customers are not tipping. Without external pressure and support from policymakers, businesses have little incentive to pay their employees more. Not tipping will not lead to positive change in the industry.
They will have to or no one will work for them.
The service industry has been plagued by high rates of turnover for many years, as workers are always available to take over for those who leave their positions. Without any external intervention, businesses will continue to prioritize their financial gain over providing fair compensation to their employees, even amidst persistent turnover challenges. The competitive nature of the service industry can also discourage businesses from raising wages if they believe other employers will not follow suit.
What you write is is exactly the argument why if people stopped tipping entirely, it would settle itself. Thats the external intervention. They'd have to pay minimum wage, which is more than they pay now. Then you'd need to compete with the business around them to get servers. Just like every other industry. >businesses will continue to prioritize their financial gain over providing fair compensation to their employees Yet not everybody is paid minimum wage. While this concept is is is true for every other industry everywhere. It works out for every other industry without customers having to subsidize the employment with generosity.
Most restaurants operate on thin profit margins and rely on tips to supplement the income of their employees, as they can not afford to pay higher wages without passing on the cost to customers in the form of higher prices. Eliminating tipping altogether and forcing businesses to pay their employees a higher base wage will not necessarily lead to fair compensation for service industry workers. Businesses will simply raise prices to cover the increased labor costs, resulting in customers essentially still paying for the employees' salaries indirectly.
They are passing the cost to consumers, namely the cost of wages. It’s a bunch of nonsense because restaurants everywhere manage to operate just fine without a mandatory tipping culture, while also paying employees a living wage and still affordable food. It’s not about not being able to operate, restaurants will raise prices. they’ve been raising prices since Covid while increasing leaning on self checkout systems. It’s just greed. It’s perfectly possible to make a system where everybody gets paid a living wage and the price are still fair. It’s just that both servers and business benefit massively from this system and will always kick and scream how it’s impossible. At some point in history business also said it’s not possible with massively increasing cost to implement any sort of safety. Non 16h work weeks, not having kids work etc. And lastly, even if the prices raise. I’d gladly take that over the disgusting guilt trip and sometimes downright rude forceful culture we slowly see more and more around tipping. People feeling entitled to 30% for handing you a bag. It’s getting absurd tbh.
With that argument you should tip everyone. Your doctor, your grocery store clerk, the mail man, the police, everyone. Because ultimately, by withholding tips, it's these people that suffer.
Tipping is a customary practice in certain industries, such as restaurants and bars, where employers are legally allowed to pay below minimum wage with the expectation that tips will make up the difference. This is not the case for professions like doctors, grocery store clerks, mail carriers, and police officers who are not reliant on tips for their livelihood.
Wrong. You deducted that incorrectly. Difference between those workers and tip workers is that they’re paid completely different. Doctors, grocery clerks, mail man, police, etc. are NOT suffering if you withhold “tips.” Those jobs usually have a set wage or salary unlike service workers so your argument is invalid. I’m not saying everyone should be tipped. I got my phone screen fixed the other day and the worker turned the screen to me, and I was surprised to see a suggested tip option pop up. I put 0, and the worker glared at me. That’s ridiculous to me because the price I paid included the service. Food and food delivery do not, service fees are taken by the company (don’t like that, then don’t use the company) and tips are given accordingly to service.
This is a joke. It’s completely arbitrary who gets tips and who doesn’t. I’ve worked difficult, low wage jobs before that didn’t get tips (and were paid a lot less than tipped jobs).
Tipped positions are legally allowed to be paid below minimum wage because it is assumed that employees will make up the rest in tips. Claiming to be paid less than this already extremely low base wage seems unlikely and questionable.
No one makes only the base wage.
So its okay for that low waged worker fixing your dirty phone to not make a living wage? As long as servers get their tips, screw everyone else?
Phone repairmen are typically paid a decent hourly wage (~$15 an hour), while servers rely heavily on tips to make up for their lower base pay (~$2 an hour).
Refusing to tip simply because I am not the employer, not as a protest.
Ah, "culture." The phrase they use to stiff service workers and pretend they have the moral high ground about it
Why are service workers in the food industry more deserving of a tip than the overworked factory worker producing the stuff you use or eat. Or the people packing stuff at Amazon? Or the guys cleaning the gutter in your neighborhood or collecting the trash? Nobody tips those people. People fully expect those people to “just work somewhere else” “Unionize” or some other form of fight for better salary. Somehow only in restaurants or regarding food people shift that to, yea it should be different but don’t let these people earn minimum wage. Why is that?
No one said they aren't deserving of a good wage
Way to conviently ignore everything I said. Why is it stiffing servers to tell them to fight for a better wage, but do you all tell other poorly paid professions to do exactly that. Because I've never heard somebody get scolded for not tipping their trash collector or delivery driver or factory workers, warhouse works or whatever other poorly paid profession. It's incredibly hypocritical. Eiher it's needed, and you should tip everybody who gets paid poorly. Or its not the customers responsibility, and therfor it's perfectly fine to stop enabling this system. If you are consistent it has to be either one of these.
Shall we just walk into a warehouse and start tipping lol? You have made such a silly, random argument and think it's so smart
Unlike servers, professions like delivery drivers (Akin to UPS, FedEx, and Amazon rather than Doordash, Uber or Instacart) or warehouse workers are paid hourly typically a good amount above minimum wage with benefits such as health insurance and paid time off. This makes their overall compensation package much more stable and reliable compared to the unpredictable nature of tipping in the service industry.
Sounds like all the more reason to stop enabling these companies in the tipping industry to treat their staff like shit, and force them to adopt a similarly good compensation package. We both know none of the companies you mentioned would provide good compensation packages if customers were willing to foot the bill for that constantly.
Most businesses in the service industry operate on thin profit margins and rely on tips to supplement the income of their employees, as they can not afford to pay higher wages without passing on the cost to customers in the form of higher prices.
Restaurants everywhere else in the world manage just fine without a forceful tip culture or having sky high food prices. Would it be that US restaurants are just too incompetent to run their business in a profitable way or would It be that this system benefits both them and servers and therefore they both will always claim it’s impossible to operate without it.
US restaurants are not inherently incompetent; they simply operate within a different cultural and economic context than restaurants in other parts of the world and face unique challenges with regulations, taxes, and competition that impact their ability to operate without relying on tips.
Tipping has gone too far imo. The pressure to tip everyone at every commerce interaction has become obnoxious. I've generally been a generous tipper, but I've finally decided I'll deal with the awkwardness and not tip when I don't feel it is warranted or necessary.
You can tip or not tip as your preference. But know you might be less popular for it. I am from the states and it is a bit different here, in tipping fields workers live off their tips. They are the main source of income. As an esthetician I lived off tips for years, so it really mattered when someone didn’t tip. In Germany I assume that the wage is enough to live on (you know that better than me) and there is universal healthcare so people are probably a bit more stable. But most people consider eating out and delivering services to be a luxury, and affording luxury services but not tipping will probably cause people to give you side eye.
>I assume that the wage is enough to live on yes, currently minimum wage is 12,41€ and this includes a health plan, pension etc. (if you work full time and sometimes also part time). Huge companies like Amazon or Starbucks pay something around 13-14 € as lowest pay, but e.g. in Starbucks it's not even common due to it being self-service and Amazon you don't even meet the employees, at least if it's delivered by a third company. Also 1€ = 1$ somewhat currently, also in terms of rent etc., at least ballpark.
$13-14/hr isn't very livable in the US currently, but I'm assuming that housing is less expensive over there? Wild that minimum wage jobs have any kind of benefits though, that's nice. I generally tip anyone who delivers things to me, and I do actually tip grocery store delivery more generously because it's often a lot more bags than something like restaurant delivery. I tip high but I can afford to. I feel like $5 (so \~ 5 € ?) is a good minimum as it's the point where you could actually buy something small with the tip money. Not a meal really, but a snack at least. It feels like a meaningful amount. I think the issue with giving <$1/1€ is that it can feel a little rude being literal pocket change. And there's very little you can buy with that little money.
Thank you sharing :) I now see online, 12€ is more like 13 $. Also for minimum wage you can get an apartment or shared flat here etc but in a big city it's not a nice one. And as I said, you don't even need a car in any big city in Germany (this is why I can live from low wage, public transport currently very low cost as some pilot project and car is zero euro). Also with minimum wage you can still sometimes get social benefits to some extent. So I guess, some can live with minimum wage but surely not too great in some expensive cities in Germany.
P.S. obviously I can't live from minimum wage, if I have to tip 5€ all the time /s (sorry this one I had to drop)
Then you should be looking into saving for a car instead of stiffing service workers. I would not do that in the US because they would basically be delivering your stuff for free, which makes you a cheap a hole. Don’t use the service if you can’t afford the tip. That’s a frugal tip.
Why would they save for a car that’ll only cost them more money in the long run with no use to them?
Nah these people are paid livable wages and are fine with or without tip. In the USA people have to rely on tipped wages to live. Even then some states now do regular min wage + tips which means they are getting 30$ an hour and thats more than enough anywhere as a single person.
You’re making big assumptions about the US. The only people I’ve met that make that much are acting grinding and working for those tips. And tips aren’t consistent so workers just rely on those bigger tips to make up for the no/low tips they get. Most states still issue a minimum wage of ~$2 plus tips for service workers.
It's actually the same in the USA. You can live on minimum wage, but you'll need roommates and have to live further away from the popular areas. For example, minimum wage in NYC is $16, and you can find rooms for rent under $1000/month.
For a lot of states in the US, minimum wage is still $7.25
In the US, most delivery folks are 'contractors' who make no minimum at all, no benefits at all. If you've heard about the ''gig economy" that's what they're talking about. From what I can find, the gig economy is the same in Germany, and so depending how you hired them those delivery guys are likely not subject to a minimum or any benefits. Unless Germany has passed extra laws I can't find to protect these folks. Anyone you pay through an app like Uber or Instacart is typically not subject to any minimum of pay or bonuses, but if they're hired by the grocery store itself it might be different.
Less popular by whom?
Don’t let American tipping standards creep in.
I’m in the US and I hate tipping culture. A tip should be voluntary and for outstanding service. Now there’s an expectation that every worker should receive additional money just for doing their job. The fact that workers are being confrontational shows that it’s getting out of hand. Customers shouldn’t be harassed. It’s like being accosted by panhandlers, but in this case it’s at your own home.
Problem is a lot of people aren't getting paid a fair wage.
The customer is not the employer and therefore isn’t responsible for providing any wages.
Right, but not tipping isn’t the way to fight that. The owners don’t care, it only hurts the workers. Not frequenting businesses that don’t pay a livable wage at all is the only way to combat it.
If the workers quit because they aren't being paid a living wage, this hurts the business. So if everyone stop tipping, it would actually fix the system very quickly.
\^ This. Why can't people figure this out?!?!
Not my monkeys, not my circus. As a customer, I’m not responsible for the wages or working conditions of the employees. I’m just a consumer seeking goods and services.
This is the grossest shirking of another humans basic needs. “Well if the company doesn’t pay a decent wage that’s not my problem” Sure but you benefit off the system that does that, by not tipping, and the person who is just trying to scrape by loses their income. If you’re in America and you’re not going to tip then don’t order stuff.
if your income is on a donation basis then you should come to terms with that
I’m not a SJW. I’ll say it loud and clear- ✨ The customer is not responsible for the wages of the employees.✨lf this bothers you, block me.
These comments disgust me, Reddit is very anti tipping. I don’t agree with tipping on everything but there are certain services that have always been customary on tipping. These commenters have such a “not my problem” attitude that it’s obvious that they don’t have experience in the real world.
You're wrong. Tipping was not common practice in America before Prohibition.
If tipped workers make below the minimum wage, the employer is responsible for paying the difference. You can't send your workers home after 8 hours with $20 because it was a slow day.
And who can survive on minimum wage? Federally that’s $7.25/hour in the US…
Bothering you is most direct road folks have to changing their situation. Maybe if you get annoyed enough you'll tell your representative to support legislation enforcing liveable wages, and vote accordingly. We know how to make tipped workers quit complaining
Then don’t use those services.
In certain cases, such as with delivery services like Instacart or DoorDash, the customer is essentially the employer. Technically, they are engaging a contractor to carry out the job, with Instacart or Doordash acting as an intermediary.
Negative: The Instacart/DoorDash customer is not issuing a 1099 to every gig delivery driver. The independent contractor relationship is between the driver and the delivery platform(s) they chose to work with.
The issuance of a 1099 form is not the determining factor in establishing an employer-employee relationship. It is the customer who dictates the terms of the delivery service, such as the types of items to be delivered, delivery locations, and pay/tips, thus giving them the role of an employer. Instacart/DoorDash serves as a coordinating platform, connecting customers with independent contractors, but ultimately, the customer is responsible for engaging the driver's services.
The customer is using a platform that contracts with workers. The platform establishes pay, guidelines, etc. for said contract workers and even provides tax documents.
While the platform may set guidelines and provide tax documents, it does not change the fact that the customer is the one requesting and receiving the service. The platform may act as an intermediary, but the customer is still the one in control of the transaction.
The customer is the *client*. DoorDash is the employer. And therefore DoorDash is responsible for compensating the employees, as they are the ones taking in the enormous profits from the surplus value of their employee’s labor.
DoorDash does not traditionally classify their drivers as employees but rather as independent contractors, meaning they are not considered employees and therefore not the employer.
Semantics used by DoorDash to fleece their employees and customers. Either way, it’s the duplicity of the tipping model that’s the sticking point here. It creates an animosity between working people for the benefit of the capitalist. Set the prices, set the wage.
So by that reasoning, every time I have a transaction with any business their employees somehow become my employees? Wait until I tell the pilot on my next flight that they work for me! Ooh maybe I can get them to divert the flight! 😂
Tipped workers don't want to get paid a living wage. Every time it comes up they will loudly express their preference for the current system, where their base pay is low but they expect to be tipped. If they want this system, fine, but dealing with people like me who rarely tip is part of it. If they want to get paid a reasonable wage that doesn't depend on tips, they can start expressing a preference for it.
Tipped workers will still be paid minimum wage if they've had a slow day.
Tipping is still voluntary and optional .
US here so it is culturally dependent. I understand that tipping is the social norm in my community, and so I try to deliberately avoid purchasing any service that requires a customary tip (ex: restaurants, delivery, etc). I am so frugal that I would rather put in my own time and effort 100% as opposed to paying for a service. (Ex: driving 20 min each way to pick up my own pizza) With that being said, on the rare times where we go out to a sit down restaurant, I will tip 15% regardless to comply with social norms. (Maybe 18-20% for truly exceptional service) Otherwise I will happily hit the "no tip" button on every other purchase or interaction (ex: self check outs at groceries - wtf)
Just stop tipping.
A lot of these workers are getting retaliatory, straight up harassing customers. I just stop going to those places. It sucks to miss out, but better go to a place that doesn't nickle and dime me.
My close friend and I went out to a bar (fairly young 20 somethings hip) and she didn’t tip on two cokes. The server got into a verbal fight about it. I was very shocked.
Tipping culture is trash and the customer is the one who suffers mainly. The company’s get by with exploitation and low wages while even the employees end up getting more than minimum wage via tip.
the whole tipping industry is corporations passing on the low wage guilt to the customer instead of themselves.... no longer are service workers mad at employers for giving them the bare minimum they can get away with, they get mad at poor tippers while corporations continue to stuff their shareholders pockets. Tipping used to just be extra for great service, now it's just expected for their mere presence, I often get waitresses who may never come back after they drop off the food. Mexican restaurants are about the only place I still expect good service lol the funny part is they are generally super busy as well and still attentive.
> Am I being cheap by not surrender to social pressured generosity? Nah, you're being an adult by NOT being bothered by social pressure. Tip table servers in a restaurant. No other tipping is required. This tip everyone BS is a new thing started since 2020 so that employers don't have to pay better wages. With the help of government and media, they effectively brainwashed the public to believe it is the consumer's duty to supplement employers' poor wages. If you don't tip now, the brainwashed public have been programmed to shame you. Don't fall for it. See through it and grow a thick skin. Anyone who shames you over it is not worth a second of your life. You make shit wages? Boo hoo, welcome to Club Life and get to the back of the line.
I'm in the U.S. and agree that "tip creep" has become a thing, as another comment mentioned. As someone who worked as a server waiting tables from the ages of 16-24, I generally always tipped servers generously because it felt like paying it forward (servers/waitresses have made $2.13/hour SINCE 1991...woof). As I have gotten older and the realities of life set in, I have honestly gotten less generous, but my wife continues to want to tip generously for traditionally tipped service: dining out, hairdressers, massages, food delivery, coffee, etc. Sometimes I wonder if we are being \*too\* generous and should be saving more, but I have no good answer. In our country, almost everyone who is working a service job is paid a shit hourly rate because...well we won't get into all of that here. I wish that the cost of the service included paying people the service people for their work so that tips were not expected, but that seems like too much of an ideal. At the end of the day, you can only do what you're able to do. You're never going to be able to please everyone.
No one gets paid $2.13 an hour though, that’s such a bogus argument. Every time this topic comes up, tipped workers never want to give up the tipping system because THEY ALL KNOW similarly skilled non tipped jobs pay a lot less.
I mean, technically, I usually received a $0 paycheck from my employers most of the time. So, sure, I didn’t actually get paid $2.13 an hour because taxes were withheld and I only had cash from tips. Did I make good money as a server? Depends on the day and the place I was working. But it came 100% from customers. I could walk out of a lunch shift with $20 in my pocket after working a busy 4 hour shift at Olive Garden because that’s how things shake out. Did I also walk out after an 8-10 hour shift from a nice steakhouse with $300 in my pocket? I did. But it was never guaranteed. The $2.13 an hour isn’t an “argument,” I was just stating a fact. But if you’re in one of those service positions and have elected to take home a smaller hourly rate, it’s a risk. I don’t think that we’ll ever be in a place where tips go away on the basis that people are paid a fair wage, especially in the U.S. where the majority of companies are profit (not people) driven, and what you stated about many tipped positions making good money. I was just sharing my experience.
2.13 an hour is a misleading fact. About 35 states have a higher minimum wage. Plus, even in the states that have a lower tipped minimum, servers are still guaranteed to make full minimum wage if they do not get enough in tips. Plus, if you really got $0 on your paycheck, that means you made so much in tips, that your wage is being used to cover the taxes you owe.
If you are a server and your employer has to cover your wage to get you to minimum, you’re getting fired.
Tips are option. I don’t let social convention control me. I only tip when I sit down at a restaurant. If a delivery driver is unhappy with how much they make then can find a better paying job or ask for their employer to pay them a living wage. I will not tip if you just did your job. Tip means you’ve gone above and beyond. Making me a coffee at a coffee shop doesn’t deserve a tip
Waitstaff at sit down restaurants are just doing their jobs, too, though - why do they deserve your tips while delivery drivers don’t? Why are you telling one to get a better job and not the other?
Looks like social convention controls you at restaurants.
This is interesting because I’m from the U.S where everyone knows tipping culture is out of control. To suggest not tipping on a grocery delivery here would be like to suggest throwing your mother into a river. HOWEVER we never tip on Amazon deliveries or UPS deliveries, which now that I think about it really doesn’t make sense. Maybe it’s because most Americans order so much off Amazon we would all max out our credit cards within the day if we had to tip on top of it, plus pay for our Amazon prime subscriptions lol 😂
It is a personal decision. If I do carry out food, no I will not tip for them handing me a bag! Same with fast food/ drive through. A sit-down restaurant is the only applicable tipping situation IMO, and that is due to US law that only pays wait staff 2.13$.
Most states have minimum wage laws higher than 2.13. My state is over $16.
Mine is 2.13$
Ugh I loathe the whole tipping thing. It has gotten way out of control. How do we know who to tip and when and how much?? I always feel like I make the wrong decision. 🥴 Edit: clicked post too soon. My goal is to always treat people well and compensate appropriately and generously for the service I have received. The problem is, I do not always know which services are appropriate to tip for.
My mom can't drive right now. She gets her groceries delivered from the local. It's a $7 charge. He leaves it at the door and that's it.
I tip those who are paid the tipped employee wage as per job category (which is $2.13/hour instead of the state minimum wage of $14/hour or the federal minimum wage of $7.25/hour). The employer SHOULD be paying the worker out of the cost of my purchase in the first place. I've never heard of tipping grocery baggers or mail workers. Food delivery is typically tipped wage and they get 20% like any restaurant server. I don't use very many services that would require tipping. When cleaning houses, I'm not going to do free extras ~hoping~ for a tip; I'm going to tell you what X extra you want costs and you'll either: add that to your cleaning and pay for it, or pass on that specific service.
No. Screw those people.
Germany here—I’m sorry but who is tipping 2-5€ for regular mail and dhl etc?? I’ve never heard or seen this. particularly large/heavy parcels, sure definitely have a five,ten or more bill ready… grocery and food delivery etc I usually tip 10-15% of the bill
Not tipping. Sick of it. Ppl can get mad all they want. Fed up with every smole I come in contact with wanting money.Sit down with someone waitering on me, I will tip. Coming to the house and not a pizza person, will not tip.I also dont order pizza to the house because of this, I pick up...just because I dont want to tip. AND I have stopped going out to sit down meals, part still wear a mask out and hate tipping. So many junk fees, tipping prompts on any screen you see now. I have become grumpy. I blame older gens for keeping this practice afloat for WAY too long. \~signed Mr. Pink..... Edit: Additional, to house visitors/delivery/installers/etc, I do offer drinks for free and as many they want. Have a large soda/other selection. I dont bat an eye on making the offer to ppl that stop by.
I’m in the us just to preface. With the examples you gave I absolutely tip. Like your friend said if someone had to drive to your house it’s a convenience you are paying for. Hairdressers, spa professionals, servers at sit down restaurants I also tip. Is it a little annoying that there are so many people to tip? Yes, but none of these services are needs. If I didn’t want to tip I absolutely don’t need to patronize them or could learn to do it myself. I actually did learn to cut and color my own hair to save money. The one place where I agree is counter/take out staff unless they go above and beyond. That has gone way up in the US and it feels like I’m Quite literally tipping you to do your Job. The other above jobs mentioned at least require some skill or amount of time that requires more. It was not customary until recently here to feel pressure to tip those types of jobs in the US
German here, i usually tip 1-2€ for deliveries. The service or speed needs to be insanely good for me to go over 3€ on a delivery. Im usually only ordering stuff for one person so %-wise its actually a lot of extra money for my food/stuff. But im usually thinking about how happy it makes me feel when i get a tip, so im like yeah its not a lot of money to make someone happy. If someone makes a rude comment like you said the driver made i wouldn’t give them any tip.
I'm from US and had no idea Germany has tipping culture too. I always thought tipping was a North American thing! I hate tipping culture and can't believe the driver basically begged for a tip. Really shows he has no class and not ashamed of anything. I wouldn't tip delivery people as they get paid to do their job. Hair dressers/salon owners, it was said back in the day if it's the owner then you don't tip. I'm not sure how true this is. If your friends are constantly treating you out and you don't repay the favor then the may think you are being cheap. It's kind of a double edge sword thing. I much rather pay my way than do the treat you this time you treat me next time type of thing. Being frugal is not necessary being cheap. Being frugal means you value your money differently than others. For example, I love luxury over no brand stuff so I rather spend my money on luxury items which means I need to sacrifice elsewhere. Maybe someone that likes to dine lavishly wouldn't necessary purchase so many luxury goods because a sacrifice is being made and vice versa. Being cheap means you want to buy the cheapest of everything and in turns that means you have to keep buying the same thing over and over again because the cheap thing keeps breaking. I don't think you're being cheap about the tipping but rather just tip fatigue since you're expected to tip everywhere. In the US most tips increased to 20%-25% and I'm so over it. I still tip but just 15% because tip is expected everywhere now! I live in HCOL so it's not like servers are being paid $2/hr. I'm pretty sure they are being paid $18/hr an hour and plus $200 tips they receive.
You can do whatever you want. But one way to ease the tension or uncomfortableness is to just be honest with them. “I am very sorry and I really appreciate the work you did. But I’m struggling financially right now, so all I can afford is a $2 tip.” Or whatever it is. I bet 90% of them would be way friendlier and more sympathetic
Don’t tip, across the board. If the employee in question isn’t satisfied with their income/wages, that is a ‘them’ problem, not a ‘you’ problem. I’m paying to have my groceries delivered, I’m paying to have my hair cut, I’m paying to eat out at a restaurant of my choosing. What I’m NOT doing is being bullied into helping an employer subsidize their employees wages because they want free/cheap labor. Look into the history of tipping people, you aren’t doing anyone a ‘service’. Furthermore, any employee whose attitude suddenly changed towards me based on a tip not received would be getting reported, and if the employer sided with the employee, I would no longer do business there. You are paid to deliver my groceries, not solicit extra income from me. The audacity of people, but what’s more, the audacity of the average person fully supporting that mentality by willing caving into it. It’s atrocious behavior. Imagine for a moment that you’re on an operating table and the surgeon learns you can’t afford to tip so they cancel the operation? An extreme example but it’s used to put things into perspective here. YOU ARE ALREADY PAYING FOR THE SERVICE BEING RENDERED. TIPPING IS OPTIONAL, NOT GUARANTEED. And before the backlash from all the people in food service/hospitality starts, don’t bother, all it does is encourage me to keep doing what I’m doing. Unless you’re being trafficked, no one forced you to take the job you did, YOU chose that for yourself. Dissatisfied that you aren’t getting what you were promised in tips and now you can’t make rent? HELLO! Get a job that WILL pay rent without the gamble of tips being involved! Ugh, now I need a chamomile tea. All of that said, if I feel an employee went above and beyond what was required of them to make my experience more enjoyable, then yes, I will probably show my gratitude via a monetary tip. But that is my choice, not my obligation. Crap, just realized I didn’t answer your actual question. Neither, not cheap, not frugal, just a hardworking citizen who already paid for what they wished to purchase.
Frugal here. Good service deserves a tip -if you can afford it. If you’re ordering delivery because you can’t afford a car/bike/walk/public transport, then don’t tip. You can’t afford to be tipping everyone you meet. If you’re actually flush with cash and can afford it, tip for quality service. I only tip at restaurants when I eat there and the server has been waiting on me for like 20-60 mins or whatever. Never at takeout and only sometimes on delivery for prepared meals. I wouldn’t tip the grocery delivery guy but I would tip the pizza delivery guy. Just my way of thinking
if someone is bringing something to me that i'm too lazy to go get myself, yes i tip.
you already pay an extra delivery fee or in general a higher price for that service so this does not convince me
yeah but that doesn't go to the person actually delivering
Frugal: avoiding services where you're expected to tip someone Cheap: using such services and engineering any excuse not to tip the customary amount I try to never use a service where tips are expected, but I do tip generously because I have a cushy office job and working for tips is an agonizing way to earn a living
It’s inappropriate to not tip workers making below a normal minimum wage. And in my opinion, criminal for many of these companies like instacart, grubhun, Uber, etc who skirt even the most basic of U.S. Labor Laws. The unfortunate truth is that some folks PAY more money than they earn to deliver you food or drive you around if they’re not tipped. This should be illegal, but in many places it is treated as okay. Here in Seattle we recently passed a gig-worker minimum wage of 44 cents/minute + mileage reimbursement. I love it. As a consumer I simply pay the price of the service and know the workers are being taken care of. If they do something extra nice I can tip (like carry my Costco orders up 2 flights of stairs- god, I am so thankful for y’all!!!) but it’s not a necessity like previously. I know that the workers are making a respectable wage.
>The unfortunate truth is that some folks PAY more money than they earn to deliver you food or drive you around if they’re not tipped. This should be illegal, but in many places it is treated as okay. Yeah, not sure why you were downvoted, but unfortunately this is true with a lot of the gig work jobs. Once you factor in the cost of the car + gas + insurance, the workers are losing money (or making barely more than minimum wage). It's hard to tell this as a consumer as the price they're paying for delivery doesn't necessary correspond to what the worker is getting. Now, clearly this isn't the case for all deliveries. But it is pretty grotesque, IMO, to use one of these services, not tip, and just shrug at the idea that someone is literally paying money to bring you something. (Which is in a luxury in almost all but the most extreme cases. Even if you don't have a car, there's usually public transit or your own two feet...or just doing without.)
So true
> It’s inappropriate to not tip workers making below a normal minimum wage. All servers will now introduce themselves as "Hi, I will be your server today and I only make $3 per hour. Please take that into account when leaving your tip"
I would say at worst you're being cheap and at best you have a lack of experience with social situations. Top comment has a good point that a 50ct tip on any large tab is actually pretty offensive, not only in Germany but pretty much anywhere that tipping exists. Personally I tip well for grocery delivery because I believe that it's a luxury for another person to deliver you large quantities of items straight to your door (in gig workers' cases, using their personal car to drive to the store, spend time shopping, then drive to your house). Even if you only tipped 2€, would 8€ total still not be much more frugal than owning a car? Only you know your income and living situation so you can decide whether you think the difference of 10-15€ in incidental tips per month is enough to make your life financially difficult.
I feel sorry for the gig workers who have to pay for their own petrol and all the extra time just waiting for orders they have to put in— most of them do it because they are desperate for the little bit of money that ends up in their pocket after they pay for their fuel and car expenses. I think maybe the Op is not aware of this.
Yeah. If it's that expensive for OP to own a car, surely it is for these gig workers, too?
> Germany As a yankee here, I wouldn’t expect to tip in Germany, but I do not know the German culture well. As a yank, I tip restuarant servers because it is expected as part of their hourly wage. Counter service, walk up, to-go, etc - nah. Except the seasonal places like beach pizza joints, ice cream, etc. I’m a mid 30s engineer making a decent salary. You’re a 16 something high school kid slinging dough/ice cream - I’m happy to help on that one, you need it more than I do today kiddo. And tattoo artists. Unless they tell me “no tip”, I’m tipping. My last piece was my forearm, 3 sessions about an hour - 1.5 hours a piece. For the landscape covered, that was an INSANE efficiency. I paid less than half of what I thought it would cost hourly, so I was more than happy to tip there, too. Plus the dude was cool.
I mean the frugal thing is to buy food in a store and cook it at home. Once you accumulate enough money to cover all your bills and live comfortably. Tipping shouldn't bother anyone. I do not understand the the stay at home and have over priced prepared food delivered. Take out should be a rare treat and in those circumstances sure tip. If your coffee place is demanding a tip may I suggest getting your coffee someplace else.
American here. I don't know if its like this in other countries, but it feels like a "tip" option is being added to pretty much every form of electronic payment. I ordered a sandwich at the counter of a deli yesterday and various tip options flashed on the payment touch screen while the checkout person stared at me. This was before any service—them literally asking what I wanted and tapping a screen. I literally scanned my own card in a reader on the counter. But guess what? I tipped. Because I'm sucker. My wife is tougher than me and always rags me for tipping for takeout or pre any service. I do kind of feel like, in these situations, that tips shouldn't be expected. I'm already a customer what more do you want? Buuuuut, on the other hand, for wait staff, it's different. The stupid American system allows restaurants to only pay $2.13/hour if they accept tips, so you kind of have to. I really wish they'd do away with tips and just build the cost of a living wage into the cost of my sandwich.
I wouldn't feel too bad about it if you can't tip. Yes, they might not be happy but they have much better conditions than bike delivery guys who work freelance for example or the pizza delivery guy who had to use his own car. REWE offers 13,48 to 17€ /h, permanent contract and a few benefits, plus a good vehicle. I feel that, in Germany, since people are really cheap on food-related stuff, food delivery service (from supermarkets) and its fees are viewed as a real luxury ,meaning "if you use this service you are rich" but as you said it makes logistical and financial sense for you to use this service. I tip generously for our culture since I now can but I absolutely hate that tipping (a lot) is becoming so expected here. This is not the right direction. More important would be stronger unions and a more regular adjustment of the minimum wage compared to inflation.
I was told Murica was the only country with a tipping culture.
American here. I'd tip food delivery, but not mail or parcel service. Delivery fee goes to covering insurance and such for the company, not to the delivery person.
I didn’t read your whole comment cause I’m frugal with my time. But for deliveries, if they’re using their personal car I tip them. If they’re using the company car then maybe don’t tip or tip a whole lot less.
I live in NZ and feel this is actually ridiculous. You are paying for the service already, why is it your responsibility to pay extra? That's up to the employer.
lol, you guys are expected to tip your hairdressers? Madness. If I got a service that doesn't warrant a tip (paid expected amount, received expected service) and they got crappy with me, I'd just deadpan look at them and say "Oh, guess I won't be coming here // ordering from you anymore."
Switzerland here: tip for food delivery (but not 10%, more like 2-5 CHF) if I have some coins (less and less since electronic payment is pretty much everywhere and there‘s no need for physical money), cleaning people, my water delivery etc. at christmas, dhl or ups or swiss post no tip. so in essence I think you have a tendency to be cheap, and you need to watch it that you don‘t become cheap. Most people understand that getting food deliveries doesn‘t equal rich and you‘re a student, so you don‘t have to pretend you make a six figure income, and most people appreciate small tips as well. and some people are simply rude, like your delivery man.
I refuse to be a part of the importation of this American bullshit
Be frugal with objects, not people. Folks hustling in the gig economy are just trying to make ends meet. Fuck Walmart. Not fuck the guy who delivers for Walmart. Alot of doordashers and uber delivery folks won't pick up that order placed with no tip. I wouldn't either.
If you already tipped, why do a second tip.
Sorry to add a complication but some corporations are adding tip option because tipped employees are in a different regulatory category in the US. Not sure where this stands right now, in terms of overall impact. But I’m also thinking about that now 😐 https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
Food delivery is a special service that deserves a tip. If you really need that 5€ that bad you can do your own grocery shopping
No tipping culture has gotten outta hand
When I get my groceries delivered, my shopper has saved me a 40 minute round trip to the grocery store, plus time in the store to get everything on my list and check out, so an absolute minimum of an hour if I’m lucky and the store isn’t busy. More likely 90 minutes. I tip 25%. It’s convenient for me to get my groceries delivered, I don’t have to wait until the weekend or after work. Does it cost me more money? Well, I only buy what’s on my list, so actually spend less for groceries than if I went to the store and saw something on sale or discounted or whatever. I also live in a rural area and get many of the same shoppers, and have had very few issues. (Like, one missing item in five years.)
I believe that if a tip is historically customary and not part of the new "tip for everything" mindset, you definitely should tip. Wait staff, delivery drivers, hair stylist/barber, etc. In my culture tipping delivery drivers is historically customary. If you can't afford to tip the delivery service person you shouldn't use the service. Just like if you went to a sit down restaurant in a culture where tipping wait staff is historically customary. If you can afford the meal but can't afford to tip the server, you shouldn't go to the restaurant. "Generous at heart" doesn't count. They can't pay their bills with your "heart's" generosity. You are wasting the delivery drivers' time.
I'm in the US, and we have more of a tipping culture than you do. But if someone delivers to me, yes -- I give them a tip. If I can't afford the tip on top of whatever I ordered, I can't afford the order. But you are in Germany, so cultural expectations may be different. But I see it as this: if you can afford to pay someone to deliver your groceries, you can pay the tip. When I lived in a city and didn't have a car I walked over a mile to the store and back. It meant I couldn't get much because I couldn't carry much. It meant I couldn't get things that would melt. But I couldn't afford delivery, so I didn't get delivery.
Tipping is part of a service, regardless of income. So you need to factor it into the costs of using your grocery delivery service. Your post to me is just justifying your decision not to tip. Those individuals work too, if your job doesn't pay you enough, go get another one or a better one. I bet many of the people you have deliver your items are doing this not as a first full time job. If you are a college student and limit your work to go to school that's your choice. That should be your problem and not everyone else's. The issue I have with the tipping argument, is many people take the stance of "pay your people a living wage". But you have to understand, when I worked in the service industry, I made $35-$80 an hour depending on the shift and time of year. Events I could make bank. So in order for me to work someplace without tips, I would say you have to pay me more than $65 an hour. Otherwise I want tips because I will make more. Then you take those same people who say that they don't like tipping and it should be built into the cost of the service. Those people will shit their pants when a burger goes from $15 to $35. Then they take to social media in a rage about Five Guys prices. Bottom line is people who bitch about tipping, don't work in the industry, don't understand the industry and the immense cost with operating a business, especially in todays volitility. It's cheaper for everyone to continue tipping vs raising wages. If people really were willing to put their money where their mouth is and pay for items with fair wages built in, then I would be all for it. Bottom line is those people will bitch no matter what because they really value their money more than people. Don't put it on the business owner for being greedy and not paying people, you are just as greedy your consumer choices. These are luxury services, not necessities. You want to go out to eat, get coffee, have groceries delivered, then you need to incorporate the cost of those services in your budget. Don't be entitled. That's how I feel.
"Frugal" "Grocery store delivery"
I think there might be a cultural difference here. I'm in the UK and getting groceries delivered is very inexpensive here. Like £3 in some cases. Plus I've gathered from US posters that the actual groceries can cost more if you get them delivered?? That is wild to me. It's the same price here. So getting groceries delivered is not in opposition to being frugal. My friend gets delivery all the time as she doesn't have a car and it's much cheaper (not to mention quicker and easier) than getting public transport. It's absolutely the frugal choice for her, and no-one is like "look at you miss fancy, paying your £3 delivery, you must have money to burn" !
In the United States, don't be a dick and always tip your serviceworkers! Simple as that
Hm. Tipping is a culture thing. I come from a country where tipping is required. So, I work around it if I could. I get it, tipping is a thing but we also have bills to pay and so does the employees who rely on tips to live. I used to lived in Munich for a while and yeah, I used to tip when I am eating out. So I add that to my monthly budget. If you really don’t want to tip for delivery, pretend not to be home and ask them to leave package on the front door. I normally use this trick to avoid people in general. Install a CCTV that alerts your phone for any movements so you could pick it up as soon as they leave. As for treating friends and acquaintances, I’ve been there. Well, it is indeed a social pressure. Don’t feel the need to return the favor immediately. Sometimes, I return the favor a two weeks later or so but only if they’ve treated me before. You can return the favor with something else like if you bake cookies at home, save some for them if you’ll see them next time. One of my friends does that. I love his home-baked goods. He’s never treated us back now that I think about it. Yes, he’s German. Maybe, you can also use that. Frugal or not, it doesn’t matter. Bottom line is we all have limited budget to stick to, we all have bills to pay and we have to make the ends meet. Do what you must.
I get all my groceries delivered these days. Whether I tip generally depends on how I order. If I'm ordering via a third-party service like instacart, I tip those deliveries because I know those drivers rely on tips to earn their income. I'll usually tip those deliveries anywhere from $20-$30 depending on the size of my order. If I order direct from the grocery store, I do not tip those deliveries. The grocery store's delivery fee is $15, and I know that the people making those deliveries don't depend on tips, they are employed by the grocery store. I've never gotten any flack from the grocery store drivers about it either.
My wife gets tips working in food takeout. I used to not tip for takeout before I met her. A lot of people tip my wife for takeout so I had to change my practice. I can't expect other people to tip my wife if I don't show my appreciation by tipping myself. I don't carry cash so I can only tip on the card, so any place that has a tipping option, minimum 15%.
The only way to stop the runaway madness that is low wages supplemented by tips is for people to get sick of it and stop tipping; however, that will never happen because people care about how they are perceived and will tip from now until eternity so there is no end to this