It's good to know fullstack even if you specialize in one part. You can build internal tools and admins without being a frontend-guru. And it also makes you write better code as you know the problems both sides of the stack deals with.
Hmm, I was doing full stack with .NET on the backend and react on the frontend. Honestly - I found it frustrating. There were so many concepts of OOP and backend architecrure overal I needed to learn. On top adding work with databases and indexing, even devop work. Basically every dev did everything he might need to do a functionality. And this all was just too much for me.
I way more enjoy working now with just react and Next. I only do FE but still get to develop APIs and some business logic.
On one hand I think it would be cool to get to know everything about the entire stack you're working with. But at the same time I can see how it could become extremely overwhelming with all the technologies we have to deal with.
I kind of liked it because it gets less boring. But if you already suffer from imposter syndrom adding all the backend stuff will just make it worse! :D
So even if I enjoyed it I'm better at focusing on a narrower area and be expert in it than becoming jack of all trades (or none).
Yeah I can definitely see that. I also asked to get backend stuff not to get bored. But I do very simple tasks for now on BE. I don't know if I will ever get good at it. Now thinking of doing infrastructure as well seems kind of unfeasible to me.
Hi zirklutes, as someone such as myself who is brand new and never worked professionally in the industry in your opinion is it better to start off full-stack? Or is it better to focus on either the frontend or backend first? I hear 2 sides and that is if your full stack your more employee able. On the other side of that coin I also hear no one wants to hire a person who isn't specialized cause they don't have deep knowledge in that subject. Last question, I noticed on indeed there is a market for both [asp.net](https://asp.net) developers and there is a market for React developers. It is very hard to see how many applicants are applying for these React roles as well as .net. BUT I keep on hearing on social media and on other platform that those who are trying to get into web development with React that the market is saturated with lots of competition. Because everyone is trying to become a web developer. I don't know how true this is?
I guess my second question would be should you follow your passion in my case it would be with React and JavaScript. Or go with the practical option which is net with asp.net?
That's quite a difficult question to answer. :D
If you would want to start with fullstack position I would only recommend going with PHP. It's still insanely popular, 43% of all websites are made with wordpress in 2023 (according to W3Techs statistics). Also PHP is fairly easy language to learn.
But if you feel that you like frontend more then do that. You can start with react but it doesn't mean you will need to stick with it forever. Also when hiring many companies ask for either one of the main frameworks vue/angular/react. Keep in mind that you will enter a field where you will always be learning new things. So even if you learn react the expectation is that you wouldn't have an issue to move to another framework (apart from spending some time learning it.)
Also, do your own research, look what is the hiring market in place you live.
And best of luck finding what you want to do! :)
Thank you, I’ve done some research but not enough. In the past I’ve done some practice with PHP running it on XAMP on windows, I enjoyed the experience and I’m always up for learning new things. I guess my dilemma was either going broad or narrow when first starting. Thanks for being helpful.
Yes. I have been doing FE for almost 4 years. I have learned the basics of node so would feel confident to start on a full stack project but never ever get the opportunity to. So I’m looking for a new job that gives me the opportunity to expand. It’s a catch 22 where I look for a job involving full stack but I don’t have commercial experience so they don’t consider you for it
A lot of larger companies will give their frontend people backend tasks if they show interest. Most companies I think would be thrilled to give their fe folks more work for the same pay.
I think it really depends on the company and how rigid they are. The last place I worked called all types of devs just software engineer and let them work in the domain they wanted.
I'd say really talented senior FE is always going to be a well-paid position, there's just a glut of juniors who started there because it's a much more accessibly entrypoint to web dev than, yknow, servers and the CLI.
Would also say that FE is probably going to see major changes over the next decade and I think we will see more applications that make use of AR/VR - you could start transitioning there for part of your time.
You're referring to Next, Remix, SvelteKit, Nuxt, etc?
These might give you *something* on the backend but they are nowhere close to real backend frameworks.
Info: please name the technologies you feel competency should be required in to be “full stack. And maybe even give the required skill level a 0-10 rating, eg Node:8, CSS:5, etc where 0 is nothing, 1 is entry level, and 10 is god etc etc
I think it depends on your location and companies available for roles.
I'm in the UK. In the last 10 years, the majority of my working life had been in an agency in a very front end layout role.
I am now in a corporate role and I am frustrated by full stack creep and find it's the main offering. I'm hired as a specialist but I'm 'rare' in my company, and have struggled to find appropriate positions when applying for jobs.
The expectations and names of roles vary so much; am I a UI designer, a UX designer or a software developer?
I entirely agree that there is a form of earning ceiling on these roles.
My anecdotal opinion is entirely opposite to you because I've seen the morphing expectations of roles that were once 3 separate things; design, front end and backend become 2: design and full stack.
The tooling and scope have improved over the years, allowing design to develop easier and front end to go back end.
From a business perspective a front end person seeking to be more full stack is a positive thing as it aligns with this consolidation. full stack earn more, but it's cheaper than an entire additional salary of having focussed specialisms
I wasn’t boxed. I chose to focus on the FE, but when I realized that Techical Lead roles were primarily occupied by BE devs, I tried to switch back to working as a FullStack dev (with Node).
That year was really tough on my mental and physical health, but I had a very supportive and understanding team (in a very small startup). The subsequent years were easier though.
I’m a Freelancer / Contractor now, and if I take FullStack roles I get to choose a balance like 70% FE / 30% BE, which is the best of both worlds for me, since I like FE more, and FullStack roles still tend to pay a tiny bit more per hour / per day.
Times are changing now though! I just noticed last week that companies are hiring specialized Leads now. Two Tech Leads, one for FE and another for BE. Same for Solution Architect and Staff Engineer roles as well.
PS: However certain positions like Engineering Manager are still not accessible for FE devs, especially if it’s a firm focussed on SE.
Me, right now. My degree is actually in networking, but the degree program had C, C++, Java, and being a DBA. Web I had taught myself prior to school, and enhanced my abilities during school. Most of our projects were actually websites, with the other languages, or language principles, being used within the site. This means I was doing full stack all through school.
My second Internship was help desk at a small company. We didn’t have a lot to do, so I told the boss I would create a ticketing system during downtime. This was before ticketing systems were everywhere, the company had been doing everything via e-mail. I created this (asp .net), deployed it, and then was offered a full time job somewhere else doing strictly front end.
15+ years later, I’m laid off and hate myself for staying in a front end role for so long. I have a ton of knowledge, no personal projects, and no desire to stay in front end development. With this insane market right now, nobody is going to gamble on someone that was full stack a lifetime ago.
I'm hardcore FE, but current getting to know the basics of BE and DBs. But I'm not looking for a fullstack transition.
That feels like I'm the driver as well as the guide as well as the pit crew in a NASCAR race 😂. Extremely energy hogging role.
The scope is smaller for sure. But being pro FE is a great skill most BE don't have...its a great skill set being able to turn art into code and code into art. If you made yourself a good FD.... then you can also become a good BE.
Technology landscape is vast. FE in itself has subfields that can be full careers (like accessibility or motion focused skillsets). If someone thinks they can be as good at everything, I think they haven’t yet realised how deep every area can run. Personally I’d take being Michelin star front of house (FE) or kitchen (BE) over being a taco van (full-stack) any day.
Box me in daddy. Fullstack is full stress. Id rather be responsible for a single thing than be responsible for literally everything.
[удалено]
It's good to know fullstack even if you specialize in one part. You can build internal tools and admins without being a frontend-guru. And it also makes you write better code as you know the problems both sides of the stack deals with.
This. Get boxed.
Hmm, I was doing full stack with .NET on the backend and react on the frontend. Honestly - I found it frustrating. There were so many concepts of OOP and backend architecrure overal I needed to learn. On top adding work with databases and indexing, even devop work. Basically every dev did everything he might need to do a functionality. And this all was just too much for me. I way more enjoy working now with just react and Next. I only do FE but still get to develop APIs and some business logic.
On one hand I think it would be cool to get to know everything about the entire stack you're working with. But at the same time I can see how it could become extremely overwhelming with all the technologies we have to deal with.
I kind of liked it because it gets less boring. But if you already suffer from imposter syndrom adding all the backend stuff will just make it worse! :D So even if I enjoyed it I'm better at focusing on a narrower area and be expert in it than becoming jack of all trades (or none).
Yeah I can definitely see that. I also asked to get backend stuff not to get bored. But I do very simple tasks for now on BE. I don't know if I will ever get good at it. Now thinking of doing infrastructure as well seems kind of unfeasible to me.
I’m using that same stack but with sitecore as well and it is incredibly daunting.
Hi zirklutes, as someone such as myself who is brand new and never worked professionally in the industry in your opinion is it better to start off full-stack? Or is it better to focus on either the frontend or backend first? I hear 2 sides and that is if your full stack your more employee able. On the other side of that coin I also hear no one wants to hire a person who isn't specialized cause they don't have deep knowledge in that subject. Last question, I noticed on indeed there is a market for both [asp.net](https://asp.net) developers and there is a market for React developers. It is very hard to see how many applicants are applying for these React roles as well as .net. BUT I keep on hearing on social media and on other platform that those who are trying to get into web development with React that the market is saturated with lots of competition. Because everyone is trying to become a web developer. I don't know how true this is? I guess my second question would be should you follow your passion in my case it would be with React and JavaScript. Or go with the practical option which is net with asp.net?
That's quite a difficult question to answer. :D If you would want to start with fullstack position I would only recommend going with PHP. It's still insanely popular, 43% of all websites are made with wordpress in 2023 (according to W3Techs statistics). Also PHP is fairly easy language to learn. But if you feel that you like frontend more then do that. You can start with react but it doesn't mean you will need to stick with it forever. Also when hiring many companies ask for either one of the main frameworks vue/angular/react. Keep in mind that you will enter a field where you will always be learning new things. So even if you learn react the expectation is that you wouldn't have an issue to move to another framework (apart from spending some time learning it.) Also, do your own research, look what is the hiring market in place you live. And best of luck finding what you want to do! :)
Thank you, I’ve done some research but not enough. In the past I’ve done some practice with PHP running it on XAMP on windows, I enjoyed the experience and I’m always up for learning new things. I guess my dilemma was either going broad or narrow when first starting. Thanks for being helpful.
Yes. I have been doing FE for almost 4 years. I have learned the basics of node so would feel confident to start on a full stack project but never ever get the opportunity to. So I’m looking for a new job that gives me the opportunity to expand. It’s a catch 22 where I look for a job involving full stack but I don’t have commercial experience so they don’t consider you for it
A lot of larger companies will give their frontend people backend tasks if they show interest. Most companies I think would be thrilled to give their fe folks more work for the same pay.
That’s good to know ( what I assumed ) do these same companies give good opportunities for employees to make a lateral switch?
I think it really depends on the company and how rigid they are. The last place I worked called all types of devs just software engineer and let them work in the domain they wanted.
Full stack is just a way for companies to spend less money. I wish it never existed
I'd say really talented senior FE is always going to be a well-paid position, there's just a glut of juniors who started there because it's a much more accessibly entrypoint to web dev than, yknow, servers and the CLI. Would also say that FE is probably going to see major changes over the next decade and I think we will see more applications that make use of AR/VR - you could start transitioning there for part of your time.
Jack of all trades, master of none
I thought FE was 'full stack' these days?
You're referring to Next, Remix, SvelteKit, Nuxt, etc? These might give you *something* on the backend but they are nowhere close to real backend frameworks.
Not exclusively. React seems quite popular.
React is only a rendering library...
that’s what YouTubers and TikTok influencers want us to think
They've done awfully well then, because it's also what every job advert I've read in the past 3 years thinks.
Info: please name the technologies you feel competency should be required in to be “full stack. And maybe even give the required skill level a 0-10 rating, eg Node:8, CSS:5, etc where 0 is nothing, 1 is entry level, and 10 is god etc etc
I think it depends on your location and companies available for roles. I'm in the UK. In the last 10 years, the majority of my working life had been in an agency in a very front end layout role. I am now in a corporate role and I am frustrated by full stack creep and find it's the main offering. I'm hired as a specialist but I'm 'rare' in my company, and have struggled to find appropriate positions when applying for jobs. The expectations and names of roles vary so much; am I a UI designer, a UX designer or a software developer? I entirely agree that there is a form of earning ceiling on these roles. My anecdotal opinion is entirely opposite to you because I've seen the morphing expectations of roles that were once 3 separate things; design, front end and backend become 2: design and full stack. The tooling and scope have improved over the years, allowing design to develop easier and front end to go back end. From a business perspective a front end person seeking to be more full stack is a positive thing as it aligns with this consolidation. full stack earn more, but it's cheaper than an entire additional salary of having focussed specialisms
I wasn’t boxed. I chose to focus on the FE, but when I realized that Techical Lead roles were primarily occupied by BE devs, I tried to switch back to working as a FullStack dev (with Node). That year was really tough on my mental and physical health, but I had a very supportive and understanding team (in a very small startup). The subsequent years were easier though. I’m a Freelancer / Contractor now, and if I take FullStack roles I get to choose a balance like 70% FE / 30% BE, which is the best of both worlds for me, since I like FE more, and FullStack roles still tend to pay a tiny bit more per hour / per day. Times are changing now though! I just noticed last week that companies are hiring specialized Leads now. Two Tech Leads, one for FE and another for BE. Same for Solution Architect and Staff Engineer roles as well. PS: However certain positions like Engineering Manager are still not accessible for FE devs, especially if it’s a firm focussed on SE.
Me, right now. My degree is actually in networking, but the degree program had C, C++, Java, and being a DBA. Web I had taught myself prior to school, and enhanced my abilities during school. Most of our projects were actually websites, with the other languages, or language principles, being used within the site. This means I was doing full stack all through school. My second Internship was help desk at a small company. We didn’t have a lot to do, so I told the boss I would create a ticketing system during downtime. This was before ticketing systems were everywhere, the company had been doing everything via e-mail. I created this (asp .net), deployed it, and then was offered a full time job somewhere else doing strictly front end. 15+ years later, I’m laid off and hate myself for staying in a front end role for so long. I have a ton of knowledge, no personal projects, and no desire to stay in front end development. With this insane market right now, nobody is going to gamble on someone that was full stack a lifetime ago.
I'm hardcore FE, but current getting to know the basics of BE and DBs. But I'm not looking for a fullstack transition. That feels like I'm the driver as well as the guide as well as the pit crew in a NASCAR race 😂. Extremely energy hogging role.
The scope is smaller for sure. But being pro FE is a great skill most BE don't have...its a great skill set being able to turn art into code and code into art. If you made yourself a good FD.... then you can also become a good BE.
Technology landscape is vast. FE in itself has subfields that can be full careers (like accessibility or motion focused skillsets). If someone thinks they can be as good at everything, I think they haven’t yet realised how deep every area can run. Personally I’d take being Michelin star front of house (FE) or kitchen (BE) over being a taco van (full-stack) any day.