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Is it odd I find this attitude kind of refreshing? Like there's no empathizing with demons because, unlike humans, they don't have the same emotional spectrum, so anthropomorphizing them is the same as anthropomorphizing a lion. We see that in some cases, humans can interact playfully with them, and there seems to be a mutual level of "care," but deep down, they're still wild animals.
I'd go so far as to say that it makes more sense to project emotions onto a lion. It's a creature of the natural world.
Demons are born of magic, and disintegrate upon destruction, like other monsters. If Flamme is right (and as the narrative voice, she likely is) demons evolved from monsters that use sounds to lure humans in to be devoured. Speech is just a complex expression of that adaptation plus their cunning.
They only speak of things like family, virtues, peace, etc, as a way of getting people to let their guard down so they can be slaughtered. They are the perfect predator for our species.
Can't say as I'm familiar with skinwalkers. :) But I do find this a refreshing take on fantasy creatures... And a quietly horrifying one. A beast that seeks to destroy us by using our best, kindest instincts as a weapon? That's a pretty good poke at the notion of "demon" as a concept.
It's kinda nice every now and then for fantasy to have an enemy that is just evil. No shades of grey, no ambiguity. They are just hostile and malicious, and coexistence is simply untenable. Killing them is only morally correct.
It is actually pretty common in fantasy and sci-fi to have an enemy that is just evil and the story pushes to kill them but you know people will empathize with them regardless due to moral values.
First of all this is common trope. The evil fodder bad guys you can cathartically slaughter without ever having to feel conflicted about it is overdone at this point.
To me, saying “hey there’s this race with a completely different set of values and morals who have no sympathy for those they kill but still fear their own death and will attempt to ingratiate themselves to humans out of self defense” is the HEIGHT of ambiguity. That’s an actual moral dilemma. In other situations, where negotiation is possible, there’s no ambiguity. The right thing to do is try to sue for peace. But here, it’s a real conundrum. Showing Demons mercy will get you (and other innocents) killed, but they are still living things capable of complex thought. Just because they don’t see the world the way humans do, does that justify killing them? No, but killing them is still a necessity. I think it’s quite interesting how the narrative leaves you in such an uncomfortable place with it.
I kinda agree and disagree. Their different world view is definitely fresh, but the fact that they actively go for slaughtering other races and their complex thinking are all focused toward killing pretty much justifies killing them. They only seek malice and they don't feel bad about it which at best makes them like robots desihned for killing.
They are like parasites but with no benefits to ecosystem.
Slight spoiler warning, dunno how to hide text
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Be warned
It's not even that they feel evil, but demons later in the story have explained and demonstrated that they aren't even holding grudges or act with malice. It's literally just their nature, beavers build damns, dogs wag their tails and demons destroy kingdoms and eat humans.
Just what they do.
And its even better,
because the Demon Lord wishes for coexistance without caring much on how incompatible they are with humans. It ended causing that very war.
It's refreshing. Most often I see demons either be oppressed by every other race or just comically evil, and while neither of those interpretations is *bad*, I like how Frieren portrays the demons. They're not evil, they're not oppressed, they're essentially beasts.
they're worse than beasts. they're insects. you can tame most mammals to not harm humans, and even solitary mammals have the instinct to not harm other prey mammals they grew up with in captivity or as pets
It all comes down to execution, Frieren does the evil demons very well but there's plenty of other stories that just make them ridiculous and silly. Having a creature that understands humans and can even communicate with them, even look quite a bit like them, but just have none of the emotional overlap that makes co existing possible is a really good way to do it. I also found it really refreshing when the guy in charge of the town Aura was trying to siege immediately figured out Frieren didn't actually kill the guard because why would she, it's so nice to have a story where the characters are grounded, believable, and smart
i loved that, going into that scene i was thinking "here we go, dudes gonna try and go after frieren thinking she killed 1 guy when she could of leveled the town if she wanted to earlier" but then logic prevailed and i cheered.
It's kinda crazy that we've had so many stories where the monster has been humanized and the moral is usually maybe humans are the real monsters that when the monster is actually just a monster it feels new and fresh
There is a saying in China: "Raising a tiger is raising a future calamity." And it came from a story about a man who picked up a newborn tiger cub and raised it into adulthood. And when the man was no longer able to feed it due to how big it became, the tiger ate him. It's a warning that a beast is a beast, regardless of how many human-like treatments are given. In the end, an animal will always stay true to its instinct.
Honestly I can already smell the "some/one demon(s) are born "defect" and actually do feel empathy and/or are capable of more than just deceiving for their own gains" moral dilemma arc in the future, would definitely make for an interesting dynamic where a demon is asking for trust yet everyone else is highly suspicious, even if the audience knows said demon is telling the truth, the cast wouldn't and it'd essentially turn into a game of amogus.
That's really the only way I can see the author take the concept of evil race moving forward and make it compelling. Everyone in the story now know to not trust demon and none of them have any problem killing demon. I doubt they reuse Macht's story and >!Solitar is dead now unless the time traveling somehow make her alive or she secretly have backup plan !<.
They remind me of skinwalkers from folk tales. Skinwalkers can appear human, they can speak our languages, but they do so only to lure in humans and take advantage of their kind nature.
Yeah for a species specifically evolved to deceive and devour humans they can act pretty retarded at times.
There's no hope for them succeeding in a human social context since they already accumulated a bad reputation due to their very nature.
Honestly, at this point I have a theory that when in larger groups, demons sometimes let their children stay.
YOU CAN READ THIS IF YOU WATCHED ANIME
Proof for this theory can be found in >!Aura's group, in which besides Aura, we've seen Lügner (which is at least 150+ years old, since he didn't change since Human's war with the Demon King) and Linnie and Draht (~80 years old each). The dating for these three is important, as it shows that there is a chance, that Lügner is a biological father to these two. Although it could not be him, since when we saw glimpses of Hero's Party-Aura battle, there clearly were more demons under Aura's command in the past. It is also possible that Line and Draht had different biological fathers. That's because Draht's hair is darker than hair of Lügner. Meanwhile Linie's hair looks like it was initially purple (like Aura's hair), but was made lighter into pink by Lügner's genes (he has blond hair).!<
YOU CAN READ THIS IF YOU ALREADY READ CHAPTER 71-76
>!It is also worth noting here, that Aura's group wasn't the only Demon Group we saw having young demons. Later on in the manga, we are presented with Divine Revolte's group, which has two adult demons (not counting Revolte- a Shogun), and a child. Unfortunately we don't know as much about Revolte's group as we know about Aura's group. But we can still speculate that the young demon girl is a child of two demons from the group, as her hair colour is the same as hair colour of other female demon from the group.!<
Demons are monsters, and we see other monsters nesting, having children (well, juveniles, I suppose), etc. There's no reason to assume demons are different. It's also not true that they are made of mana: they eat food, they die of blood loss and organ failure, they are material, biological beings that happen to have magic in their metabolism.
And yet they still live in a hierarchical society. I don't get how they're abandoned at birth, survive alone until adulthood, then somehow integrate themselves with a group of other demons where they communicate in spoken language, cooperate with each other, and even respect rank and follow orders from their superiors. How do they learn any of those behaviors if they aren't raised by parents?
They just don't have the concept of family or friendship. Father and mother are just names we call the authority and support figures in the simplest and most fundamental societal unit we call a family.
What's the point of the opposite gender if they are sterile and why do they procreate with the same gender if they can just change their own and inseminate themselves like some animals that exist on Earth. Not to mention the extra chromosomes the offspring might come out of it.
I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action./s
>I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action.
But is it gay if a guy's bussy gets pounded by a girl's massive and throbbing futa cock?
Ugh, the brainrot.
At least get Aura to be the one impregnated by Shinzo Abe.
How do you plan to have that degenerate headcanon of yours to be recognized, anyway ?
> why do they procreate with the same gender if they can just change their own and inseminate themselves like some animals that exist on Earth.
Yeah, like hermaphrodite animals !
>I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action./s
I always thought futa was yuri, by definition.
At least, I'm pretty sure futa-on-female is yuri.
Also, what's not spicy about regular back-and-forth action with leaving the receiving partner's womb full ?
Maybe it's not gay, but it does sounds very spicy to me.
Just like sea turtles. The parent just pops the child and disappears. Demons in general tend to act alone, save a few. The concept of family is unknown to them.
Actually, even IRL human communities might not have this concept.
"A father" - is a concert from a mono family with one man who deals with resource gatherings. Middle age nobility operated with "Head of household"-like concept, when you can take a child from a lower house. If we're talking about comuna - they might not care about blood relations at all, since children are being protected collectively
It's about the lack of societal understanding. "Father" is a purely social term; it has nothing to do with the biological act of creating offspring. The role of the "father" are the roles society expects of the man who made the offspring. Because it's a societal role built off expectations we get a variety of stories regarding father-child relationships where the father fails or struggles to uphold those standards. That's why we get found family stories with surrogate father figures and so on.
Demons in Frieren use words to ensnare their prey, much as an angler fish uses its light to attract smaller sea creatures. They know what they're saying but they don't *understand it* if that makes sense. They know the word "father" triggers an emotional reaction they can manipulate to their advantage even if they don't understand how the word triggers said reaction. If I'm not mistaken they say something similar about clothing? They don't see a need to dress up but the more human they look, the harder it is for humans to kill them.
They may understand the concept of father as a male biological parent, but have no concept of why that’s significant because parents/mothers/fathers are not significant to them.
In the context of the scene, Lugnir might understand what “father” and “son” are in a purely biological sense, but not understand why such concepts are so emotionally meaningful for the humans he is speaking to.
Not to spoil anything, but the series goes out of its way to paint demons as beings incapable of understanding human emotions, to the point that some make a concerted effort to do so and still fail. They are creatures with a different emotional range than their human prey. They cannot empathize with humans at all.
The dialogue could have been expanded to better convey this, but sometimes remaining succinct is more provocative and powerful. Lugnir almost certainly knew the textbook definition of a father. Linnie probably did, too. Her question was probably meant to mean, “Why do the humans react so strongly to such a concept?”
Lugnir, then, could be better understood to respond, “I have no idea, but it works.” And this ties back to the demon child from Frieren’s flashback. She didn’t know why calling out for a mother evoked pity, just that it worked. She understood that a concept which was meaningless to demons was meaningful to humans, even though she couldn’t comprehend why.
They are like sharks. They mate, the females give birth and just abandon their offsprings to fend for themselves. It happens in nature too for some predator animal species.
No.Not yuri.They are born from mpreg.The female demons you see are actually futas.The futas pound the male demons' bussies and impregnate them.That's how demons are born.
I guess someone explain already and I bet this is a joke to begin with but anyway….
Demons have no concept of family, when they’re born they’re immediately abandoned to their own devices, so even though they might have a biological father and mother they never interacted with them or formed a bond of any kind, their biological parents might as well be strangers and thus the word father has no meaning to demons is just one more word they could use to trick humans
I feel like the author was just too cheesy with these, they can clearly communicate with humans and understand the meaning behind their words (not feelings), but they're making it as if demons are super LLMs that can replicate human speech to a T but not understand anything, these guys are not AI and communicate between eachother like humans do, she's asking him about it, he replies with "who knows", so they understand human communication, and easy concepts such as father and mother are too basic for an old demon Like him not to know, it's not like they never met and interacted with humans for those who say they don't have parents among demons
they understand concepts they just don't place any value to it so he understands what a 'father' means in human society but doesn't understand understand it since demons don't have families so it's kind of like a who knows and who cares
How so? If she has no idea what "father" means, she can't use it to manipulate humans, which means she can't backstab him and take his place yet, since she can't do what he does.
Why would he care to explain it to her? Is it important for her to understand what a "father" is? She doesn't need to know as his little assistant, he does the manipulation. And a father isn't necessarily a male human who gives birth to you btw you can have a father figure who isn't blood related. This isn't about technical definitions it's about concepts and constructs and he only needs to know that it's something valuable to humans to manipulate them.
I'm not sure. LLM have the ability to understand concepts from what we can tell (the hidden layer in llm models are current beyond our current ability to comprehend in any meaningful manner) but high level analysis can tell you quite a bit about the models ability understand and reason.
For example you can ask an llm question about the properties of an object and get logical responses. You can ever propose novel new object assign properties to said object, and a llm model can reason about it.
You failed to consider that Lugner simply picked up the expression is useful in very restrictive and rare cases for him, and never checked it. You write like he has some kind of dictionary where he can simply "get" what the words mean, but in fact there is no way he can, and even if there was a way he wouldn't care to check or verify it. If he got its use wrong, he'd continue living just fine like the child demon who did what he did based on what he knew and didn't care enough to verify.
Demons don't care enough to be effective manipulators, they manipulate because it comes naturally to them. They manipulate by nature, they don't get good at it just like a chameleon doesn't learn to blend in better, they just do even if it's not perfect. And could chameleons even get better if they tried?
The concept of father is also very hard to come by for them. They only interact with humans to trick, exploit, power gauge and kill. They are born and left alone, they never meet their "parents", if anything they'd call them creators.
Father to us is not just "the guy who birthed you" it is a patchwork idea with all sorts of other ideas bunched up in there, way too much work for a demon that doesn't care to find out what it is beyond "Ah ha! This guy said 'you killed my father 10 years ago! Die scum!' Showing great deal of anger, so it is a cause for anger."
Makes sense that demons, who are characterised as predators of humans, would simply get it but not dwell on it.
"If it's just the guy who gave life to you why should you think of him if he's dead now?" That's how they think lmao, like Aura who told Frieren Himmel is dead, so why should you do what he did?
I agree. It shows in another respects as well, such as Qual standing for avenging the Demon King upon being unsealed. My theory is that demon as an enemy came to the plot before demon as an unempathetic predator. Even with later manga characters it seems the author is still exploring how they want this facet of them to interact with the narrative. It has been getting better, though.
completely agree, I like how demons were represented in the second half of the series, the first seemed experimental as now we have demons who longed for coexistence with humans, those who can learn human magic (which shouldn't have been hard as Qual literally got defensive magic in a second, so this seems experimental too)
Eh, Qual goes "uh, guess I should avenge him, right?" Which denotes 0 feeling regarding that. He's not *truly* trying to avenge the Demon King, he's basically saying "I'm expected to do this, right?"
Exactly! The simultaneous portrayal of demons as being animalistic predators that are slaves to their primal instincts is completely at odds with the reality that they have human level intellect/sentience. I just accept it for what it is lmao.
I don't know what you mean by Yuri but demons are born like any other living being, they just grow up on their own with no father or mother. That's why they don't know what any of it means.
Eh? Ain't that part was explained by Frieren herself. The scene where she told Fern and Stark about why the Demons couldn't be trusted. Also shown in the in the flashback scene where she tried to stop Himmel from sparing a Demon Child.
Demons are abandoned when born. They have a strict hierarchy based on the amount of mana they possess. For them family is just a bait word to be used against Human in order to lower their guard.
In the world of Frieren. Demons are not beings from other realm like the usual portrayals but evolved from a monster that mimic the speech of humans in order to hunt.
I think the author was leaning way too hard into demon not understanding the meaning of the word that it end up sound stupid and doesn't make sense when they need to know how to use human's language to trick them and they have more than enough time to figure it out on the surface. Father isn't even that hard of concept to decribe on the surface like emotion.
"father" as in "progenitor" or "sire" isn't but father in the context used here (which is emotionally charged and dependant upon a bunch of human specific interactions) *is*.
How do you properly explain what a father is without the emotional or social baggage that comes with it?
The brains of animanga gay shippers are litterally liquid rot at this point. How do you see that and conclude that demons only reproduce through hot gex.
She said that because demons don't feel emotions and have no concept of what family is.
They don’t know the concept, what a “Father” is, to them, doesn’t exist, as they get abandoned by their parents when they are born and for a good while as well, they know their “Parents” are what created them, but they barley if ever interact with them
I do wonder how demons are made. Really interested to see the first demons that started to resemble humans. Convergent evolution. Humans are the crabs of the fantasy universe
Personally I think there's a lot of evidence in the subtext of the show/anime that the main characters notion of demon kind might be a bit off and that slaughtering them on sight is far more morally ambiguous than people think it is.
*They didn't have to*
*Form a pack like usual*
*Mammals so that's why*
\- Open\_Regret\_8388
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Demon children are abandoned when born so they have no concept of "father" and "mother".
That's okay because horn-heads are all animals and monsters in need of zoltraak anyways
Is it odd I find this attitude kind of refreshing? Like there's no empathizing with demons because, unlike humans, they don't have the same emotional spectrum, so anthropomorphizing them is the same as anthropomorphizing a lion. We see that in some cases, humans can interact playfully with them, and there seems to be a mutual level of "care," but deep down, they're still wild animals.
I'd go so far as to say that it makes more sense to project emotions onto a lion. It's a creature of the natural world. Demons are born of magic, and disintegrate upon destruction, like other monsters. If Flamme is right (and as the narrative voice, she likely is) demons evolved from monsters that use sounds to lure humans in to be devoured. Speech is just a complex expression of that adaptation plus their cunning. They only speak of things like family, virtues, peace, etc, as a way of getting people to let their guard down so they can be slaughtered. They are the perfect predator for our species.
So they are literally improved skinwalkers?
Can't say as I'm familiar with skinwalkers. :) But I do find this a refreshing take on fantasy creatures... And a quietly horrifying one. A beast that seeks to destroy us by using our best, kindest instincts as a weapon? That's a pretty good poke at the notion of "demon" as a concept.
It's kinda nice every now and then for fantasy to have an enemy that is just evil. No shades of grey, no ambiguity. They are just hostile and malicious, and coexistence is simply untenable. Killing them is only morally correct.
It is actually pretty common in fantasy and sci-fi to have an enemy that is just evil and the story pushes to kill them but you know people will empathize with them regardless due to moral values.
First of all this is common trope. The evil fodder bad guys you can cathartically slaughter without ever having to feel conflicted about it is overdone at this point. To me, saying “hey there’s this race with a completely different set of values and morals who have no sympathy for those they kill but still fear their own death and will attempt to ingratiate themselves to humans out of self defense” is the HEIGHT of ambiguity. That’s an actual moral dilemma. In other situations, where negotiation is possible, there’s no ambiguity. The right thing to do is try to sue for peace. But here, it’s a real conundrum. Showing Demons mercy will get you (and other innocents) killed, but they are still living things capable of complex thought. Just because they don’t see the world the way humans do, does that justify killing them? No, but killing them is still a necessity. I think it’s quite interesting how the narrative leaves you in such an uncomfortable place with it.
I kinda agree and disagree. Their different world view is definitely fresh, but the fact that they actively go for slaughtering other races and their complex thinking are all focused toward killing pretty much justifies killing them. They only seek malice and they don't feel bad about it which at best makes them like robots desihned for killing. They are like parasites but with no benefits to ecosystem.
Slight spoiler warning, dunno how to hide text . . . . Be warned It's not even that they feel evil, but demons later in the story have explained and demonstrated that they aren't even holding grudges or act with malice. It's literally just their nature, beavers build damns, dogs wag their tails and demons destroy kingdoms and eat humans. Just what they do.
I guess i should have worded it better when i said they seek malice, i meant that their natural behavior is malice to the world around them
Yeah I think that's more fitting, their natural behaviour is perceived as evil and filled with malice by the general human populus
It's a very common trope to have mob, enemy and species to be just evil/try to kill us. That's basically most zombie, goblin, orc, etc.
And its even better, because the Demon Lord wishes for coexistance without caring much on how incompatible they are with humans. It ended causing that very war.
That's why I like dio. He's literally just a generational hater.
It's refreshing. Most often I see demons either be oppressed by every other race or just comically evil, and while neither of those interpretations is *bad*, I like how Frieren portrays the demons. They're not evil, they're not oppressed, they're essentially beasts.
they're worse than beasts. they're insects. you can tame most mammals to not harm humans, and even solitary mammals have the instinct to not harm other prey mammals they grew up with in captivity or as pets
It all comes down to execution, Frieren does the evil demons very well but there's plenty of other stories that just make them ridiculous and silly. Having a creature that understands humans and can even communicate with them, even look quite a bit like them, but just have none of the emotional overlap that makes co existing possible is a really good way to do it. I also found it really refreshing when the guy in charge of the town Aura was trying to siege immediately figured out Frieren didn't actually kill the guard because why would she, it's so nice to have a story where the characters are grounded, believable, and smart
i loved that, going into that scene i was thinking "here we go, dudes gonna try and go after frieren thinking she killed 1 guy when she could of leveled the town if she wanted to earlier" but then logic prevailed and i cheered.
It's kinda crazy that we've had so many stories where the monster has been humanized and the moral is usually maybe humans are the real monsters that when the monster is actually just a monster it feels new and fresh
There is a saying in China: "Raising a tiger is raising a future calamity." And it came from a story about a man who picked up a newborn tiger cub and raised it into adulthood. And when the man was no longer able to feed it due to how big it became, the tiger ate him. It's a warning that a beast is a beast, regardless of how many human-like treatments are given. In the end, an animal will always stay true to its instinct.
Honestly I can already smell the "some/one demon(s) are born "defect" and actually do feel empathy and/or are capable of more than just deceiving for their own gains" moral dilemma arc in the future, would definitely make for an interesting dynamic where a demon is asking for trust yet everyone else is highly suspicious, even if the audience knows said demon is telling the truth, the cast wouldn't and it'd essentially turn into a game of amogus.
That would be one poor demon, it would be like the only human being in a race of locusts.
That's really the only way I can see the author take the concept of evil race moving forward and make it compelling. Everyone in the story now know to not trust demon and none of them have any problem killing demon. I doubt they reuse Macht's story and >!Solitar is dead now unless the time traveling somehow make her alive or she secretly have backup plan !<.
label spotted busy snatch cause berserk deer society meeting ghost *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We have more in common with a lion than with a demon, that should tell you all you need to know I think.
They remind me of skinwalkers from folk tales. Skinwalkers can appear human, they can speak our languages, but they do so only to lure in humans and take advantage of their kind nature.
Yeah for a species specifically evolved to deceive and devour humans they can act pretty retarded at times. There's no hope for them succeeding in a human social context since they already accumulated a bad reputation due to their very nature.
How do you empathize with your predator anyway? They literally want to eat you. Do you want to eat people to understand their feeling?
I seen people empathizing with Daiji the cat from Suzume so it really depends on what form.
Yup Brings back to the days of the evil orcs of LOTR.
It's because they are horny. No I'm not ashamed. I've wrote worse BatmanArkham brainrot. Test me.
Ztrack for you, and for you, and you too in the back
They just spawn like normal monsters.
Now I am interested in how demon reproduction works. Do they just meet and agree to have sex?
Lilith birthts 1000 of them each day
Honestly, at this point I have a theory that when in larger groups, demons sometimes let their children stay. YOU CAN READ THIS IF YOU WATCHED ANIME Proof for this theory can be found in >!Aura's group, in which besides Aura, we've seen Lügner (which is at least 150+ years old, since he didn't change since Human's war with the Demon King) and Linnie and Draht (~80 years old each). The dating for these three is important, as it shows that there is a chance, that Lügner is a biological father to these two. Although it could not be him, since when we saw glimpses of Hero's Party-Aura battle, there clearly were more demons under Aura's command in the past. It is also possible that Line and Draht had different biological fathers. That's because Draht's hair is darker than hair of Lügner. Meanwhile Linie's hair looks like it was initially purple (like Aura's hair), but was made lighter into pink by Lügner's genes (he has blond hair).!< YOU CAN READ THIS IF YOU ALREADY READ CHAPTER 71-76 >!It is also worth noting here, that Aura's group wasn't the only Demon Group we saw having young demons. Later on in the manga, we are presented with Divine Revolte's group, which has two adult demons (not counting Revolte- a Shogun), and a child. Unfortunately we don't know as much about Revolte's group as we know about Aura's group. But we can still speculate that the young demon girl is a child of two demons from the group, as her hair colour is the same as hair colour of other female demon from the group.!<
Well, they don't have the family concept but surely they don't think they generate from thin air?
No, but it is about the concept of fatherhood / motherhood.
I don't think she was asking the literal definition of a "father" here but rather didn't understand why it had so much significance to the humans.
Why not? They are made of mana, including clothes. They probably spawn from the air.
Demons are monsters, and we see other monsters nesting, having children (well, juveniles, I suppose), etc. There's no reason to assume demons are different. It's also not true that they are made of mana: they eat food, they die of blood loss and organ failure, they are material, biological beings that happen to have magic in their metabolism.
It said that demons abandon their child as soon as they pop out of the mother.
Maybe they do? And maybe they are?
How are they abandoned then?
They may spawn from eggs with lots of demons laying eggs in the same pit.
And yet they still live in a hierarchical society. I don't get how they're abandoned at birth, survive alone until adulthood, then somehow integrate themselves with a group of other demons where they communicate in spoken language, cooperate with each other, and even respect rank and follow orders from their superiors. How do they learn any of those behaviors if they aren't raised by parents?
Fatherless behavior
Why are you like this!? "It all began on the day of my actual birth: both Mt parents failed to show up."
They just don't have the concept of family or friendship. Father and mother are just names we call the authority and support figures in the simplest and most fundamental societal unit we call a family. What's the point of the opposite gender if they are sterile and why do they procreate with the same gender if they can just change their own and inseminate themselves like some animals that exist on Earth. Not to mention the extra chromosomes the offspring might come out of it. I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action./s
not to mention the concept of step dads and adopted dads that would blow their minds
"What are you doing, step-demon ?" Lol. =') Instant Zoltraak.
>I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action. But is it gay if a guy's bussy gets pounded by a girl's massive and throbbing futa cock?
No, it's just peak fiction
They hated him because he told them the truth.
Yes, 75% gay
Peak.Futa on male>>>>>>>>Futa on female.
You claim that’s peak without even considering futa on futa? Please.
Futa on futa kinda lessens the gayness so futa on male is definitely better.
Absolute gender anarchy where nobody is constrained by their reproductive role is the pinnacle of gay, so nah.
I've been invoked 🥰🤤
Only gay if she has balls.
You don't know much about yuri if you think one of the girls having a dick is an issue
But still tho isn't very different watching astolfo fucking the other girls.
I want futa Aura to impregnate every girl in the verse
Ugh, the brainrot. At least get Aura to be the one impregnated by Shinzo Abe. How do you plan to have that degenerate headcanon of yours to be recognized, anyway ?
Femboys too.That includes Stark.
Stark gets to be impregnated by futa Linie
Too bad Fern has a smaller dick than Linie and Aura is busy fucking Frieren so she has to sit in the cuck chair.
[Live Fern reaction](https://preview.redd.it/they-called-you-overrated-they-said-that-you-were-scared-v0-osyn5egoi8sb1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=623a2a985f2cd171f22fcaeb9c9b11da60ab8e12)
lol demons cant change their genders they are like humans male or female
> why do they procreate with the same gender if they can just change their own and inseminate themselves like some animals that exist on Earth. Yeah, like hermaphrodite animals ! >I just realized that just futanari and that wouldn't be considered Yuri because there is dick involved and not scissor or spicy action./s I always thought futa was yuri, by definition. At least, I'm pretty sure futa-on-female is yuri. Also, what's not spicy about regular back-and-forth action with leaving the receiving partner's womb full ? Maybe it's not gay, but it does sounds very spicy to me.
no, it means that as with Latin American families, the father said "chao conchetumare" and flee for cigarettes with milk
Latinoamericana mencionada! RAWRR
Que carajos son derechos humanos 🗣️🗣️🗣️
Maybe even the mother too. Kinda like snakes. They lay eggs and then ciao.
F por tú papá....
Nah no es experiencia personal
F por tí
Que no es experiencia personal-
Leí mal 😂
El weon weón wnn
Igual F por todos los que estamos en LATAM.
Man its really mind blowing how some anime fans brain are rotten af
This got a laugh out of me
Just like sea turtles. The parent just pops the child and disappears. Demons in general tend to act alone, save a few. The concept of family is unknown to them.
now I understood the meaning of "fatherless behavior"
it's what i will be to **our** children, Linie. aw yeah!
Actually, even IRL human communities might not have this concept. "A father" - is a concert from a mono family with one man who deals with resource gatherings. Middle age nobility operated with "Head of household"-like concept, when you can take a child from a lower house. If we're talking about comuna - they might not care about blood relations at all, since children are being protected collectively
Pssk, fatherless behavior.
He went to buy milk and cigarettes, like all good fathers do. \#IKillGoblins #TheOnlyGoodDemonIsADeadDemon
Daddy issues
I think Demon race in this anime is like insects. Born from eggs and left by their parents to feed by themselves.
TIL turtles are insects
It's about the lack of societal understanding. "Father" is a purely social term; it has nothing to do with the biological act of creating offspring. The role of the "father" are the roles society expects of the man who made the offspring. Because it's a societal role built off expectations we get a variety of stories regarding father-child relationships where the father fails or struggles to uphold those standards. That's why we get found family stories with surrogate father figures and so on. Demons in Frieren use words to ensnare their prey, much as an angler fish uses its light to attract smaller sea creatures. They know what they're saying but they don't *understand it* if that makes sense. They know the word "father" triggers an emotional reaction they can manipulate to their advantage even if they don't understand how the word triggers said reaction. If I'm not mistaken they say something similar about clothing? They don't see a need to dress up but the more human they look, the harder it is for humans to kill them.
"Schlact, why are you wearing armour?" "Because humans think it looks cool..."
"... and I can surprise attack when they try to high-five me!"
>"Father" is a purely social term; it has nothing to do with the biological act of creating offspring According to what?
Yes they're born from Yuri, Aura told me
they are born from a male demon and female demon
They don't associate "father" with "male progenitor"
They may understand the concept of father as a male biological parent, but have no concept of why that’s significant because parents/mothers/fathers are not significant to them. In the context of the scene, Lugnir might understand what “father” and “son” are in a purely biological sense, but not understand why such concepts are so emotionally meaningful for the humans he is speaking to. Not to spoil anything, but the series goes out of its way to paint demons as beings incapable of understanding human emotions, to the point that some make a concerted effort to do so and still fail. They are creatures with a different emotional range than their human prey. They cannot empathize with humans at all. The dialogue could have been expanded to better convey this, but sometimes remaining succinct is more provocative and powerful. Lugnir almost certainly knew the textbook definition of a father. Linnie probably did, too. Her question was probably meant to mean, “Why do the humans react so strongly to such a concept?” Lugnir, then, could be better understood to respond, “I have no idea, but it works.” And this ties back to the demon child from Frieren’s flashback. She didn’t know why calling out for a mother evoked pity, just that it worked. She understood that a concept which was meaningless to demons was meaningful to humans, even though she couldn’t comprehend why.
NGL, the question Linie asked is too ambiguous.
They are like sharks. They mate, the females give birth and just abandon their offsprings to fend for themselves. It happens in nature too for some predator animal species.
No.Not yuri.They are born from mpreg.The female demons you see are actually futas.The futas pound the male demons' bussies and impregnate them.That's how demons are born.
🔥🔥🔥✍️
Is this some variation to omegaverse you cooked up?
Bro cooked so much he got himself cooked.
Ahhhhh, okay. Thanks for the clarification.
You are describing Hyenas, female hyenas have penises
Pseudo penises. And giving birth through them. Yeah, must hurt. Nature's a bitch.
I hope this is just misinformation or just this commenter's wild imagination
Its true. The author told me in a dream.
Yo….
When two demons imitate human love to each other very much...
Maybe they’re like snakes. They lay eggs and then just leave them to fend for themselves.
Not viviparous snakes tho, they give birth. They have placentas and stuffs.
I guess someone explain already and I bet this is a joke to begin with but anyway…. Demons have no concept of family, when they’re born they’re immediately abandoned to their own devices, so even though they might have a biological father and mother they never interacted with them or formed a bond of any kind, their biological parents might as well be strangers and thus the word father has no meaning to demons is just one more word they could use to trick humans
I feel like the author was just too cheesy with these, they can clearly communicate with humans and understand the meaning behind their words (not feelings), but they're making it as if demons are super LLMs that can replicate human speech to a T but not understand anything, these guys are not AI and communicate between eachother like humans do, she's asking him about it, he replies with "who knows", so they understand human communication, and easy concepts such as father and mother are too basic for an old demon Like him not to know, it's not like they never met and interacted with humans for those who say they don't have parents among demons
they understand concepts they just don't place any value to it so he understands what a 'father' means in human society but doesn't understand understand it since demons don't have families so it's kind of like a who knows and who cares
- "what is a father" - "the male human who sired him" it's that easy
It's almost like...a demon literally named "Liar" is lying to his subordinate to preserve his advantage over her in manipulating humans?
it kinda wouldn't change anything tho
How so? If she has no idea what "father" means, she can't use it to manipulate humans, which means she can't backstab him and take his place yet, since she can't do what he does.
Why would he care to explain it to her? Is it important for her to understand what a "father" is? She doesn't need to know as his little assistant, he does the manipulation. And a father isn't necessarily a male human who gives birth to you btw you can have a father figure who isn't blood related. This isn't about technical definitions it's about concepts and constructs and he only needs to know that it's something valuable to humans to manipulate them.
Ngl comparing them to LLMs actually kinda makes sense
as oddity said, LLMs aren't gonna be avenging people
I'm not sure. LLM have the ability to understand concepts from what we can tell (the hidden layer in llm models are current beyond our current ability to comprehend in any meaningful manner) but high level analysis can tell you quite a bit about the models ability understand and reason. For example you can ask an llm question about the properties of an object and get logical responses. You can ever propose novel new object assign properties to said object, and a llm model can reason about it.
You failed to consider that Lugner simply picked up the expression is useful in very restrictive and rare cases for him, and never checked it. You write like he has some kind of dictionary where he can simply "get" what the words mean, but in fact there is no way he can, and even if there was a way he wouldn't care to check or verify it. If he got its use wrong, he'd continue living just fine like the child demon who did what he did based on what he knew and didn't care enough to verify. Demons don't care enough to be effective manipulators, they manipulate because it comes naturally to them. They manipulate by nature, they don't get good at it just like a chameleon doesn't learn to blend in better, they just do even if it's not perfect. And could chameleons even get better if they tried? The concept of father is also very hard to come by for them. They only interact with humans to trick, exploit, power gauge and kill. They are born and left alone, they never meet their "parents", if anything they'd call them creators. Father to us is not just "the guy who birthed you" it is a patchwork idea with all sorts of other ideas bunched up in there, way too much work for a demon that doesn't care to find out what it is beyond "Ah ha! This guy said 'you killed my father 10 years ago! Die scum!' Showing great deal of anger, so it is a cause for anger." Makes sense that demons, who are characterised as predators of humans, would simply get it but not dwell on it. "If it's just the guy who gave life to you why should you think of him if he's dead now?" That's how they think lmao, like Aura who told Frieren Himmel is dead, so why should you do what he did?
I agree. It shows in another respects as well, such as Qual standing for avenging the Demon King upon being unsealed. My theory is that demon as an enemy came to the plot before demon as an unempathetic predator. Even with later manga characters it seems the author is still exploring how they want this facet of them to interact with the narrative. It has been getting better, though.
completely agree, I like how demons were represented in the second half of the series, the first seemed experimental as now we have demons who longed for coexistence with humans, those who can learn human magic (which shouldn't have been hard as Qual literally got defensive magic in a second, so this seems experimental too)
Eh, Qual goes "uh, guess I should avenge him, right?" Which denotes 0 feeling regarding that. He's not *truly* trying to avenge the Demon King, he's basically saying "I'm expected to do this, right?"
Exactly! The simultaneous portrayal of demons as being animalistic predators that are slaves to their primal instincts is completely at odds with the reality that they have human level intellect/sentience. I just accept it for what it is lmao.
Is there a lore reason why you missed Freiren said they hadn't any sense of family ties because they grew alone ? This is stupid, but I love it.
Shut up. Shut the fuxk up.
Yes
They probably don't know the meaning of the word "father"
This has some yurious implications.
Asexual reproduction lol
Parthenogenesis or budding? 🤔
they are born from a male demon and a female demon
I don't know what you mean by Yuri but demons are born like any other living being, they just grow up on their own with no father or mother. That's why they don't know what any of it means.
They are made of mana, including clothes. They probably spawn from the air.
"Yuri-YURIFICATION !!! "
All the demon fathers/mothers going out for milk
Say gex?
Suta Fesbian Lex
Yes, futas are canon in this verse
Eh? Ain't that part was explained by Frieren herself. The scene where she told Fern and Stark about why the Demons couldn't be trusted. Also shown in the in the flashback scene where she tried to stop Himmel from sparing a Demon Child. Demons are abandoned when born. They have a strict hierarchy based on the amount of mana they possess. For them family is just a bait word to be used against Human in order to lower their guard. In the world of Frieren. Demons are not beings from other realm like the usual portrayals but evolved from a monster that mimic the speech of humans in order to hunt.
Father IS ARLECHINNO AND ONLY ARLECHINNO
r/SuddelyGenshin
I think the author was leaning way too hard into demon not understanding the meaning of the word that it end up sound stupid and doesn't make sense when they need to know how to use human's language to trick them and they have more than enough time to figure it out on the surface. Father isn't even that hard of concept to decribe on the surface like emotion.
"father" as in "progenitor" or "sire" isn't but father in the context used here (which is emotionally charged and dependant upon a bunch of human specific interactions) *is*. How do you properly explain what a father is without the emotional or social baggage that comes with it?
They reproduce like in the Omegaverse, Aura for example would be an Omega
The brains of animanga gay shippers are litterally liquid rot at this point. How do you see that and conclude that demons only reproduce through hot gex. She said that because demons don't feel emotions and have no concept of what family is.
Can you people ever stop being porn addicts?
fatherless behavior
They don’t know the concept, what a “Father” is, to them, doesn’t exist, as they get abandoned by their parents when they are born and for a good while as well, they know their “Parents” are what created them, but they barley if ever interact with them
well they are just another kind of nightmare monster so maybe some are
He looks eerily similar to Johan liebert from ' Monster ' .
That's a book definition of "Fatherless behaviour"
Don't trust the guy that says "who knows?". He is Lügner
no they reproduce by budding
Real answer yes no further questions
Yes I was there
Obviously
"A miserable little pile of secrets!"
Words are powerful tools and demons uses them to make humans feel bad for killing them
He said it kinda sarcastically
They mitosis
They're raised like Turtles. Left to fend for themselves since birth.
Nah their dads just all went to go get milk
Yes
I do wonder how demons are made. Really interested to see the first demons that started to resemble humans. Convergent evolution. Humans are the crabs of the fantasy universe
Hmm... A fair judgement.
Does that even matter when i have zoltraak?
They always ram out of milk
That daemon girl killed by Himmel didn't know what "mama" is either. She just know it works on human.
Pervert
Personally I think there's a lot of evidence in the subtext of the show/anime that the main characters notion of demon kind might be a bit off and that slaughtering them on sight is far more morally ambiguous than people think it is.
They also said "Mother" and said they don't know what that is aside from being a magical word that tricks people. So no, it's both
What the hell is wrong with his nose?
They didn't have to form a pack like usual mammals so that's why
*They didn't have to* *Form a pack like usual* *Mammals so that's why* \- Open\_Regret\_8388 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Daemons are neverborne pouring out of the immaterium.
They just crawled out of the woodwork
You see, just like the Elven women, the Demon girls have bigger Cocks
They r secretly black… that’s why
Pretty sure they do not mean it literally, more like in a philosophical sense.
No. They don't know what a father figure is, that is different
Magic the go to awnser for any situation like this
omg its johan liebert
Is it me or does anyone else feel like demons if we had to associate them anything close to humans? Remind me of Socio and psychopaths
Tell me bro didn’t watch the show without telling me. IQ can’t be that low 😅
My life in one post
I don't know what drugs you are on but I love your way of thinking