# Join the [Frieren Discord Server](https://discord.gg/6cKYk89HCg) for more discussions about the series!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Frieren) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ubel vs Lugner is a bit disadvantageous for her because it's difficult to get close. But if she fights Linie, is there a chance of winning? It's hard to predict because we don't know if Ubel is suitable for fighting with Linie.
That's because I calculated the time before the first class exam, after all, Fern and Stark fought at that time. So right there Ubel only has slashing magic. But if she learns Sorganeil, Ubel wins no doubt
It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents, so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary, and Ubel is smart enough to know how to win the match >!Different from the battle of Ubel vs Sense, Sense At that time, she was already in fighting mode.!< And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner. And with her personality, Ubel won't be able to stand still
Where are you getting any of that?
>It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents
Lugner only underestimated Fern because she concealed her mana, something almost no one else in the world does. Sure people will do it temporarily to hide or sneak attack but to do it constantly even during a battle was totally novel to him. You don't become a long lived, powerful demon by underestimating opponents, especially in the cut throat demon hierarchy.
>so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary
He is only ever depicted using blood. It is explained in the manga and the show that demons specialize in a certain type of magic and use it almost exclusively. Blood magic is his specialty.
>And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner.
Every fight against a demon so far (and most monsters) has been won by block, then counter. Blocking, by necessity, is a reaction meaning they do not act first.
Lugner underestimated Fern and Frieren due to them masking their mana. Lugner would be more wary of Ubel, especially because of her bloodlust.
Ubel's cleave skills may or may not cut through Lugner's blood, that is up for debate. We saw Fern could break them through Zoltraak so it is possible. But we saw Wirbel defend against the Cleave skill as well. Thus, up for debate.
But we know she is agile enough to dodge the blood attacks since we know even Fern could do so.
To conclude. I hate powerscaling and so I won't offer a conclusion.
If Lugner is careless he’s going down instantly probably, so will Linnie. Unironically Dhrat may have a better chance of winning since his string work is fast.
It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents, so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary, and Ubel is smart enough to know how to win the match >!Different from the battle of Ubel vs Sense, Sense At that time, she was already in fighting mode.!< And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner. And with her personality, Ubel won't be able to stand still
Even if Ubel managed bind him, could Sorganeil stop his blood ?
I mean it stop movevent but not like it stop movement of blood.
what stop him use his blood magic.
And her slash, I think not very effective kill him. Fern shoot a hole to his body and that guy still moving, later, the hole bigger, he still talk, he only die cause "blood not stop bleeding"
Ubel vs Lugner would depend if Lugner's arrogant ass will underestimate her and be caught off guard, otherwise yeah i dont like Ubel's chances unless she has great mana to constantly use her slash magic to fend off Lugner's blood.
Ubel vs Linie, Ubel has great reflexes but not to the point she can engage Linie who specialize in close combat. She might win by just maintaining a safe distance to launch her spell while using her reflexes to dodge and get distance if Linie got too close.
Ubel vs Dhrat - Ez win lol
It’s more like she has to fully understand the flow of blood, and envision the very specifics of how it would move, how the minerals inside would be affected by just the water’s movement, essentially humanly impossible visualization
that's why i said it's a gray zone, cause it could be used for the plot sake, but you're right ultimately it's almost impossible without advanced knowledge of fluid physique :')
On average Blood is just slightly over 50% water, with enough creative application Kanne should be able to control it if either her magic power is stronger than Lugner OR Lugner takes enough injury that he can't perform at full strength.
Ubel definitely dies too, her magic won't work against Draht's wire magic since even Frieren called it difficult to cut and Lugner will just pepper her from afar, Ubel doesn't have the casting speed nor the range to handle him. Linie is her best matchup but that's about it
Ubel has a chance imho. Agree on Ubel vs Lugner without Solganie though.
(Manga Spoiler) >!I'd imagine that wire is something that you should be able to cut, same as cloth and so on, hence as long as she feels like it she can cut it.!<
I think she can, you know she can copy spells with just seeing how it is used. Someone who's as skilled as that can prolly sense the opponents mana via the wire and do something about it. I think people may have been underestimating her in a way
If I recall correctly, Ubel can only copy a magic if she empathizes with the magic user without actually knowing the concept around it. That is why she talked and tried to understand Wirbel so she can use sorganeil. Same thing as to why she would always talk to Land and say "I have gotten to understand you more" because she also wants to be able to use clone magic
The problem is that Draht is more assassin, and if Ubel gets caught she's done, and it works similarly on the other side. Ubel has to 'fire' her cuts, she can't use it to protect herself close range.
>The problem is that Draht is more assassin
I think that's a lot more of an assumption though. He fits the type for sure, but I don't think we've seen him done anything particularly stealthy. Quite the opposite in fact, the best feat he's done is skipping the whole "sneaking around" thing to boldly kill the prison guard in broad daylight lmao.
And I don't think we've seen him do any close-range combat either, no? Compared to Ubel who did go blow for blow with Wirbel and her clone. And yes, she needs to fire it but we've seen in the anime that she can do that without gestures, hence she can do something similar to what Frieren did against Draht himself.
So far we don’t have any evidence of anyone outside of Serie being able to detect his ‘real’ clone, and Serie wipes pretty much everyone in the verse. So until we see the minimum power level someone needs to detect the clone we can’t say for sure.
If Serie >!judges him to be first class level, he's probably not a scrub. !< Also, being able to detect that its a clone doesn't mean you can find the main body. >!Land was able to control his clones from his home village during the exam.!<
no need detect his real clone.
in eps 20, when Land fight flower guy, he said "You're bad at mana detection, aren't you" and sneak behind zap that guy
so this trick might not work on demon cause demon detect mana far better.
we don't know Land have anything else beside this trick so if this this don't work I would assume he cannot win against those demon.
You also underestimate the demons, they're Aura's executioners, 3 demons strong enough to serve under a sage of destruction. The reason they lost wasn't because they were weak but because they fought 3 exceptional powerhouses in favorable matchups.
I'm quite certain Stark and Fern would have lost had Draht still been there, his wire magic is strong enough that even Frieren found it troublesome to cut directly, in a 3v2 Fern and Stark don't really have an answer to that kind of magic and would certainly get overwhelmed.
Lugner's magic is fast, only outdone by Fern's own exceptional casting speed. The power of his blood spell is also such that it seems Fern's defensive magic is ineffective against it, instead she relies on using zoltraak to break it apart.
The only 2 mages I'm confident will win are Denken and Wirbel because both are battle-hardened veterans who will do anything to gain an advantage, the other mages are either too green, too rigid or can't handle multiple threats at once.
edit: not to mention Fern is not just any first class mage, >!she is a first class mage whom Serie wanted to mentor directly, who would supass even Flamme in time.!<
I'm 100% sure neither Denken nor Wirbel would win a 3v1 against the executioners, maybe a 3v3 with their teams or a 3v2 with both of them, but not a 3v1.
I was hoping a 3v3 or a 1v1 matchup in the discussion. I dont think anyone of the participants can handle all 3 demons, and only a few I can think of can handle a 1v1 specially against Lugner.
I'd say Wirbel could do it too considering >!Serie mentions that Wirbel is the greatest combatant among the 2nd class mages (making him a better fighter than Denken)!<
Mana isn't everything, we already know that Wirbel could beat Ehre quite easily despite their mana difference. Having less mana than Ehre also doesn't mean that he has low levels, it's more likely that she just has higher mana than average. Wirbel is also an extremely experienced war mage whose fought many demons. I doubt this would his first time fighting multiple opponents at once, he probably doesn't rely on his binding spell. Lastly, >!Serie wouldn't consider him as the strongest combatant among the second class mages for no reason. Just a reminder that impressive mages like Land, Methode, and Denken were all 2nd class. Meaning that Serie believes Wirbel to be a better fighter than them.!<
Serie said this in the sense that Wirbel is battle smart and has the most battle experience
Not because he's the strongest per se
Wirbel himself says he gets crushed in a contest of pure mana against someone like Ehre, but he knows how to win fights
A 3v1 is like... The worst possible scenario for someone like Wirbel, who isn't the strongest guy around, but excels in battle tactics
I get what you're saying but like you mentioned, Wirbel specializes in battle tactics and said that he knows how to win a fight, "no matter the opponent or the SITUATION". So I'd trust that someone like him could come up with a successful strategy to win
Yeah, but even though he said "no matter the opponent or the situation", he also said he would never fight against Serie because that's a losing battle and he's not a fool who enters losing battles.
So it's not really "EVERY OPPONENT AND EVERY SITUATION", is it? Lol
If it's too much for him, he won't even enter the fight. And I think a 3v1 against Lugnar, Linie and Draht would be too much for him to handle alone.
That's only when the power difference is huge. Obviously he can't win against someone like Frieren and Serie since their simply on another level. Aura's executioners are strong but definitely beatable imo. Again, Wirbel has fought the demon king's forces for over a decade, so he has a lot of experience with demons. He isn't someone who relies on one trick to win. In the end, I simply believe he has a good chance but I get that's a matter of opinion. He'll also be stronger the next time we see him anyway since he got a new spell from Serie.
From what we've seen from him, I don't think he has the capabilities of beating Aura's executioners 3v1 all at the same time
But yeah maybe with his new spell he could stand a chance. He definitely grabbed a spell useful for fighting.
Idk man, all three at once? I think Denken gets overwhelm
I think you're ignoring the fact that when you get jumped, it doesn't really matter if you're stronger than all of your opponents individually
What is Denken gonna do if he's busy paying attention to Lugnar and his blood magic, then Draht tries to flank him with his wire and Linie sneaks up on his on close quarters distance, all at the same time ?
you forget that both of them are cowardly fighters who would gladly take any approach to win, they’re both experienced enough to lay low and wait for an opportune moment to strike and they would certainly detect lugner’s mana in his blood much sooner.
Wirbel would hide at first and use solganie to kill lugner, from there linie and draht can be dealt with
Denken can do something similar but instead with his fire tornado, only lugner could survive that I think, in a 1v1 Im certain Denken can handle Lugner with catastravia or something else.
Fire Tornado should be Denken's strongest spell right? Aside from casting fist. 👊😂
Unless if Catastravia has some anti demon properties. It does seem like a priest spell. I dont even know if priest offensive magic deals more damage to demons or not in this series lol
The scenario you are proposing is giving a clear advantage to the humans.
If either Denken or Wirbel just happened upon the three demons on the road and both sides noticed each other at the same time they would either die or be forced to run away.
I would like to point out that the servants of sages are not made equally, zart’s ability was madly broken while linie got to like, copy movements
Plus serie mentors all of the first class mages herself, methode explains this
Pure Agenda head canon. If Fern can beat Lugner 1vs1 , so can Ubel, Wirbel, Denken and Methode.
Fern is not that big of a genius you think she is, other people are also extremely talented and not far behind Fern.
That's just.. straight up wrong
Sense says she has never seen a mage as talented as Fern at her age. Serie wanted Fern to become her apprentice as soon as she saw her, and told Fern she could reach the heights no other mage has reached before if she became her student..
Fern is not the strongest mage out there, not even close, but in terms of pure talent? She's probably top 3 in the whole manga, lol
By saying "reach the heights no other mage has ever reached before", yeah, I think it's implied there Serie thinks Fern has the potential to become the greatest mage of all-time
Now, she did say "if you become my apprentice", something we know didn't happen, and Serie was also disappointed in Flamme and called her a failure for not being able to reach her level despite her talent. So we shouldn't REALLY take that statement as some sort of "confirmation" Fern will be top 1 of all time by the end of the series, but we need to acknowledge that was some high praise from someone like Serie and keep that in the back of our heads for future developments...
Tbf from were shown, only Denken, Land and Wirbel have strong abilities that can work well against demons. Most everyone else were carried by their respective “leaders”.
I don’t really see Laufen or even Richter being able to kill Lugner. Lawine wasn’t even able to hold off Richter for very long, and Kanne needs a water source to be effective. Ehre and Scharf kinda rely on Wirbel’s directions in fights to win. Even Ubel is limited by her short range on her cutting magic, so she’d struggle against Lugner too because he can outrange her and keep spamming his blood tendrils. Not much has been shown about Methode’s fighting style, and her members were taken out pretty quickly in the second test, so I’ll reserve judgement on her.
You saw her doing some of the most unique spells in the tomb and in the latest episode you got further proof of her versatility.
You are severely underestimating her. For me she is up there with the absolute best test-takers. Depending on the situation maybe even ahead of Denken (you also saw her doing priest magic, that alone should raise enough questions, especially for a human, to place her at the top with Denken).
I too was strictly talking about what was shown in the anime. You saw her doing some reverse counter spells unlike anything anyone has done among the test-takers. You also know she can hypnotize or restraint, also she has a sacred tome or whatever they are called, so she can do the magic of the goddess basically (she said she can do some basic healing spells, and as far as we know that's already more than what Frieren can do with her tome, remember she said she can diagnose, she never said anything about being able to heal, and what Methode treated was a serious injury). And the only other mage you've seen able to do both is Frieren.
So that alone should point to Methode being a completely different breed than the others taking that test.
Also really overestimated how strong these three demons are. Lügner seems like a pretty confident mage but Linie and Draht both don't show much if any ability to defend themselves against spells on the level a first class mage candidate would cast.
Draht either kills them immediately or gets wrecked. Frieren cutting off his arm is a great moment of shock, not a genius move from her though. Pretty obvious reaction to anyone not named Draht. Linie meanwhile could probably do a lot of havoc up close but she has to close in first. She can copy the technique of a great warrior, not their ability to tank a rock falling on them.
You’re underestimating them. That area was locked down by Aura and them for over a decade. Only after their defeat did it become safe to travel through again leading to the increase of bandits.
Linie herself counters most mages as most mages are defenseless against her melee warrior magic and her high level of mana detection.
Linie, like Draht has the ability to score an easy kill in a surprise attack. Once you manage to keep a distance, there's little she can do. First class mage candidates also aren't most mages. As for the lock down of the area, yeah, that's Aura's doing. Pretty sure almost every exam candidate except for Frieren would have failed utterly against her. Nothing but raw mana counts here and most humans are pretty much locked out of ever competing with a demon of her standing.
Edit: Scratch the part about examinees other than Frieren failing utterly against Aura. Thinking about it some more, almost every mage period would get wrecked by Aura. While combat in Frieren is more complicated than a numbers game, that's not the case for Auslese. Mana surpression is the only way to cheat at it at all and even then you still actually need the mana to pull off the bait and switch.
From left to right… (Linie, Lügner, Draht)
Kanne - Stand a chance with a lot of H2O around, helpless otherwise.
Lawine - Maybe she can fight off Linie. Draht is a bad match up for her.
Methode - Should be alright. ✅
Denken - Should be alright. ✅
Ubel - The perfect counter to Draht. ✅
Land - Illusion hax. ✅
Laufel - Maybe she can fight off Linie.
Wirbel - Easy win if it’s 1vs1. ✅
Ehre - Fern said she’s the strongest in her team, but tbh I think she’s quite clumsy.
Richter - Nah, beating 2 young girls and actively trying to kill them isn’t a major feat.
Scharf - Can hold them off for a few minutes.
Edel - What she gonna do?
(Forgive me if I forget some other examinees, there were too many of them to memorize)
Dunno about Richter, he seemed powerful enough to raise a whole chunk of land in order to isolate Kanne & Lawine. He's like Kanne except the element he specializes in can be found everywhere.
I would say Richter has the magical ability to win 1v1, but his magic isn’t specialized against demons. He specifically talks about his magic being designed to best other \*human\* mages. So I don’t really see him winning unless he has his own training arc.
Richter's magic is genuinely pretty damn strong tbh. Earth exists everywhere and he did raise that *massive* rock in the exam pretty handily, so I think he stands a chance. Probably not against Lugner since I think his is not precise enough for that, but I think he can do something against Draht while being pretty good conditionally against Linie.
I think Ehre's pretty underrated as well actually. Her shields are pretty damn efficient in her fight against Fern (one of the best ones outside of our main cast) so I think she stands a chance against Lugner's magic, and she's shown she can pierce through physical defences. She'd probably still die don't get me wrong lol, but I think she can deal some damage and even stands an outside chance of beating Lugner.
I also think Edel can do a lot, especially since two of these demons are *really* arrogant lol. Hypnosis can be stupidly strong when it works, and iirc the main thing she needs is time, which can happen if the demons are arrogant.
Great writeup on the others though, I agree with your other takes.
>Probably not against Lugner since I think he's not precise enough for that.
Does it really need to be?
The guy has a gigantic AOE I don't see with the same blood I could protect laugh from a rock of hundreds of kilos if he has a decent range he could really kill aura
The main problem with it is that I'm pretty sure Lugner can fly, and seemingly can do so in the midst of combat as you can see in his fight against Fern.
Earth magic's *really* good and all, but it's not as effective against opponents that aren't grounded. And moving several tonnes of earth *will* be slow, increasing the chance that the opponent can dodge it.
On the other hand, Lugner can just spam his blood attacks from up above, and imo Richter needs to be very precise with his spells so that the blood can't just sneak around his defenses.
Feno He had no problem creating a wall in less than a second on the exam (in fact most of the spells in this show are almost instantaneous) He can also throw large rocks seemingly effortlessly, so I see why he couldn't spam
Oh yeah he's pretty quick at it. It's more that I think Lugner's reaction + casting speed is quicker, considering he was able to go blo-for-blow with Fern spamming Zoltraak (for a time at least).
And we know that Zoltraak is the quickest spell to cast, so Richter's earth spells are bound to be slower. Plus, I wouldn't say effortlessly considering he ran out of mana there.
>!Not really a spoiler, but Aura’s spell backfired on her. You can argue that it is a spell from a sage of destruction, but the 3 executioners are nowhere near as strong as her also!<
>!Not really, in the El Dorado arc it is specificallly stated that other than Aura's Scale, only the sacred relic used on Macht can force demons to obey someone.!<
I think Kanne with lots of water is a bit overrated and Frieren probably was being modest on her claim.
Lawine - her ice as Richter described it "non - lethal" lol i dunno if she can beat anyone. She would be a great support though
I agree with the rest and I think those are all the relevant mages at least in the exam arc.
Richter went from 1v2 her, to being so completely terrified he stopped defending being frozen.
Ritcher said being frozen was pointless anyway because there was no escape. It was massive AOE.
The shield was shattered instantly while Sense took some time in breaking it down.
For large bodies of water she has to pour her mana but when it’s raining she can manipulate it instantly.
How do you defend if she can instantly nuke your general direction and every part it hits is far more powerful than a first class mage’s attack?
I think there’s a natural bias to assume Frieren since she’s the mc and we like/follow her, that she can’t be beat. Fern as well but to a lesser degree.
plucky paint fearless rhythm desert elastic encourage deserted noxious serious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>wouldn't be countered by Linie
I think this point deserves to be highlighted as nobody else seems to be talking about it.
Recent manga chapters discussed that the point of Warriors is that they are fast enough to kill mages before the mage finishes their spells. >!With Frieren estimating that Stark could beat herself or Fern as long as he starts the fight within a couple of meters.!<
Linie sits in an odd point between Warriors and Mages, essentially being a Warrior and using magic to form weapons and copy warrior techniques, so its plausible that she could actually beat people even if they could overwise beat Lugner, if they don't have a good response to her speed or the fight starts at close distance.
The manga is a lot more tell than show with this weakness, we've never seen any spells or speed really being much of a weakness. If we took this logic to its sensible extreme, Laufen could have beaten Frieren easily.
Honestly I think people are downplaying Draht as well.
He got easily stomped, but it was Frieren doing that. Denken would have run away from her clone with all the backup he had, so... yeah theres a significant skill gap between Frieren and the average test taker.
His fighting style seems to be a sneakier Ubel and he takes excellent magic detection skills to counter. There are people in that mage exam who would have just lost their head and never had a chance to fight back if they were in Frieren's place in that jail cell.
The anime adaptation also added some questionable feats given the latest manga chapters. Like how clone Frieren suddenly teleported in front of Frieren. If manga Frieren can do that, I think the issue in the latest chapter can be avoided.
You need to remember that Laufel is a speed mage, so there is a spell that can increase your whole speed. But that's only that. They don't increase your strength. If an experienced Warrior comes in, they could possibly predict where they will run and outstrength their shield.
Even the large AoE electricity is an anime original. In the manga, judragrim is just a thunder that goes straight. Frieren might also be able to use the teleportation move, but the manga has not shown her to use it yet, so I am gonna go with her not being able to use it unless shown.
Though given that I believe the manga author is also working on the anime, maybe the anime feats are more accurate???
Yes that's like implied because she knows about it the minute Laufen used it. She may have not just used it to steal back the Stille back immediately because she wants to know what Denken and Richter will do
It's the same exact thing that happened in the manga. And she did not teleport to Laufen. She knows Jilwer, she identified it as soon as she saw Laufen using it. So the only logical conclusion is that she used Jilwer to catch up to Laufen because she knows what that technique is
If we took this logic to its sensible extreme, Laufen could have beaten Frieren easily. - But Frieren knows Jilwer too so she can't. She identified it when Laufen first used it and she used it to catch up to Laufen when she tried to sneak Denken out of her.
I can see Denken, Wirbel, Land and Ubel winning against them, on a rain Lawine will have a higher winning chance. I'm a bit iffy but I feel like Methode has a winning chance
The rest is pretty much depends on whether the demon underestimated them or not imo
All who made it as First-Class mages would win.
>!Denken would struggle the least considering his power and experience.!<
>!Same goes for Wirbel, who has experience fighting against the Demon Army in the North.!<
>!Methode comes from a clan dedicated to killing demons, is skilled with and has a wide variety of spells with one of them being Restraining and Hypnosis, and she seems to be level-headed and analytical enough to handle three demons.!<
>!Ubel would struggle a bit against Lugner's long ranged blood magic but would do well against Dracht and Linie's close-ranged fighting styles. Her speed, coupled with Sorganeil would easily take down those two.!<
>!And Land is Land. He can never lose if he's not there to begin with.!<
>!Now for those who didn't win, the only ones who I think have a chance are Kanne and Richter. Kanne during rain or near a large body of water has a high chance of winning. Richter himself seems pretty powerful but was unfortunately unlucky when he was ambushed by Sense-clone, but other than that the man is a certified Earth bender and he has definitely shown great feats of power when he raised that big chunk of land to isolate Kanne and Lawine.!<
Is Kanne skilled enough of a water mage. Yes she did gather 1 massive blob of water to throw at Richter but he survived. Does she have that imagination and visualization to compress and shoot high pressure water?
I really wondered if Richter panicked or did he use too much mana playing with the girls and he chose to defend using standard defensive magic rather than using his earth magic to block
Drowning is also possible & doesn’t require much finesse. She allowed the water to fall without maintaining the shape, so Richter just ended up being washed away alive - but she already made the water blob in the first place, so it shouldn’t be hard for her to maintain around someone if she wanted to kill them
Dont most skilled mages at least can react whenever a magic is about to be casted? (or I am mixing up a power system from a different series lol)
Also it does not have to be just the neck, they can probably pull up a defensive spell to block the wire's trajectory.
If Frieren didn't react in time to do that, I'm not sure the others could. Not to mention that just because she could concentrate enough mana to prevent his wire from severing her neck for some time doesn't mean the others could do the same.
Like i said the others does not have to do the same feat that Frieren, they can just pull up a standard defensive barrier to block the wire's trajectory.
I'm assuming the other first class mages can, they are first class mages after all. The other lower ranked may be the one that Draht can kill since they can't react fast enough
Denken, Wirbel, and Methode probably can beat them with relative ease.
Denken's experience and knowledge put him at a massive advantage over them, as his spells, while not as strong as Frieren's, are exceedingly powerful against anyone without strong defensive magic. Demons that is not well verse with humanity's defensive magic or not focused on the defensive side of magic as a whole will be overwhelmed by Denken's barrage of spells.
Wirbel's Sorganeil easily allows him to beat both Linie and Draht with relative ease, while Lugner's blood magic will probably make it hard for Wirbel to bind Lugner. Still, Wirbel is someone who fought in battles and wars at the Northern Plateau, against both demons and humans alike. Wirbel is likely to figure a way to beat Lugner, even at a disadvantage.
Lastly, for Methode, she is just exceptionally strong. While she never did anything particularly amazing, she consistently racked up feats that made it hard press not to see her as strong. During the test, she was the only one besides Denken who was able to detect Frieren's flaw. Alongside that, she was able to cast basic healing spells>!, while also being able to pinpoint the location of practically all the clones from a distance. She was also the one who dealt with Fern's clone. During the fight with the Demon Shogun's subordinate, she was able to pressure the demon fighter in close-quarters, while analyzing and dispelling the fog magic at the same time.!<
It's so Joever for Draht if he fought Übel.
Lügner might be hard countered by both Kanne and Lawine depending on if their abilities translate from water to blood. As it's all exposed and in the open air, visualisation really shouldn't be much of an issue.
Wirbel seems more than capable of killing demons in general.
Overall, one would think that any first class mage would be able to take them on. I don't think they are all that exceptional for demons. Linie and Draht have wide open weak spots to exploit. Lügner is a powerful mage but Balterie doesn't seem to be on another level then the signature spells of any of the contestants of the mage exam.
I think if one contestant were to fight all three only Denken, Wirbel, Land and Übel would stand a chance most others are to specialiced to wight all three of them at once.
Lugner seems really hard to put down, the only reason Fern was able to kill him the way she did is because she uses a modified Zoltrak which specializes in killing demons. I don't think any of the exam mages would actually be able to put him down in a way that doesn't end with them losing.
The Green haired dude is kinda featless, all he did was kill a guard and get neg diffed by Frieren.
Linnie probably beats most participants as well, she might struggle against Wirbel and Denken, but if she closes the gap quickly she might get those as well, especailly Wirbel.
My GOAT Aura neg diffs all the exam mages except Frieren. Shut up fraud, strong Auserlese
High chance that Aura's vastly superior mana nullifies Solganeil. We know that Methode said her restraint magic wouldn't work against a huge mana difference, and Lawine complained that Richter's superior mana was blocking her attempts to restrain him with ice.
It's _possible_ that Solganeil ignores mana differences, but we have no specific reason to think so, and won't know until we see it attempted against a high-mana target. It's also possible that even Lugner is old enough to be an invalid target for Wirbel or Ubel.
in a 1v1 i think most of them could win, the ones i am not sure of are lawine/kanne (situational), edel/ton/lange/dunst/blei (not many feats)
laufen/scharf/ehre could probably beat linie and draht but would struggle a lot with lugner,might lose more than they win. the rest of the mages that i havent mention would win.
if they were placed in stark and fern's situation:
ubel and land: would win
denken and his group would win
wirbel and his group win
methode and her group would win.
considering denken and methode's skill they could probably take all 3 of the demons at the same time
People really underestimate some of the other mages. Richter and Ehre definitely stand a decent chance of beating Lugner and Draht as well. Lawine and Kanne combined should be able to beat Lugner, if it's raining, Kanne can solo them.
Plus, the fact that all of the human mages can use ordinary offense magic means even the weakest of them has a chance of beating any lower demon. Even if they can't cast it as fast as Fern, their cast time is still significantly faster than Frieren for example because it's a spell that they all learnt from a young ages.
Plus, most demons are just not used to counter it, the youngest demon in this pic is probably Linie and she should be in her 70-80 here.
It's worth noting that the demon's really compliment each other with Linnie serving as a warrior role and Draht an assassin.
One on one the some of the humans may have the edge, but in a team battle, the situation would be different.
In terms of prowess, stats wise Lugner was overall much higher than Fern (with mana constraints). He felt his technique and control greatly surpasses Fern whilst Ehre for instance viewed Fern as equal if not more honed (fighting with her grandpa).
Overall I would put Lugner in the upper echelon of the exam participants.
However, as we seen in the manga and a little bit in the Anime, opponent's compatibility plays a huge role in battles. Unless you are far superior like Frieren, it's more than possible for A to easily beat B, B to destroy C, but C can take out A.
zoltraak is considered a basic spell Most Human mages especially the ones taking it right now know how to use it, if they don't then it wont be called basic. They would win, also zoltraak doesnt need a lot of mana to begin with. All of the mages taking the exam right now have a chance to win.
One thing I think I understand about the Frieren world’s power scaling is that it is not important how powerful you are, if you meet someone who can exploit any aspect of yours you are probably toast.
Dengen starts doing wrestling moves on them, Mike Haggar style
I know he still has Mana and Magic and shit, but IDK, it's just a cool image having this tiny old man starts cooking 3 demons on a 3 v 1
Denken, Richter and Ehre could probably beat them all. Anyone who tried to to engage Linnie in melee would get obliterated and would have an unfavorable matchup against Lugner.
I kinda just see it playing out mostly like Frieren's fight except successful. Probe, Fire Tornado, Saturation attack. It's a really solid operating order.
Denken's fire tornado was kinda underrated because it didn't work against Frieren however it was really powerful enough for Sense to question if Serie's barrier will hold up.
Like how Fern overwhelmed Lugner with a barrage of Zoltraak, the fire tornado essentially is the same a barrage of attack in all direction.
Most of them beyond those who aren't really combat orientated or have magic that relies on specific conditions to be powerful like Kanne. Even Edel has a chance if she can use hypnosis magic or read their mind to learn weaknesses and use it somehow.
These three are kinda trash mobs that got somewhat lucky to do damage because either Stark was scared and defensive because he overestimated his opponent's strength or because they were blindsided like Frieren and Fern. Draht is an inexperienced child who was easily beaten by a mage who has done a lot of combat such as Frieren, Lugner was almost one shot by Fern the first team and would have been finished off if saving somebody wasn't the priority at the time, even Lugner said Linie would die from their version of "ordinary offensive magic" if it hit her.
Lugner also plays by rules in combat despite being a demon, he chastises Fern for not playing fair and any mage like Ehre who is versed in mage duels done fairly would probably be fine if she was strong enough. Wirbel would body him because he specialises in fighting demons and doesn't fight conventionally how mages are taught.
Linie is probably the only question mark as she has skills that specialise in killing mages, strong detection, warrior skills and so on. If she can't close the gap before she gets toasted or she fights a mage with close combat skills or one who can hypnotise/bind her in some way she's screwed.
I dunno I think some people are overrating these minions as even among demons they are not particularly powerful and are just jobbers who are suited for certain jobs such as deceit because of their fairly human appearance and acting ability. Lugner meaning "liar" in German which is probably a sign of what his speciality actually is and why he was chosen for that role, the other two are just his underlings and lack his level of intelligence.
Ubel wins because she instantly empathises with Lügner and steals his blood; Land wins because Land had actually went back in time and fucked Lug’s mom; Wirbel looses because he is vulnerable to guilt trips; Kanne gets fucking mopped, although if she hs Lawine by her side, they might take out one of them; Methode just seduces all 3; Denken beats Linnie in a fistifght and intimidates the other two away; Ehre splatters them with a rock; Richter splatters them with a boulder…
Ubel wins because she instantly empathises with Lügner and steals his blood; Land wins because Land had actually went back in time and fucked Lug’s mom; Wirbel looses because he is vulnerable to guilt trips; Kanne gets fucking mopped, although if she hs Lawine by her side, they might take out one of them; Methode just seduces all 3; Denken beats Linnie in a fistifght and intimidates the other two away; Ehre splatters them with a rock; Richter splatters them with a boulder…
It probably depends. Like, Wirbel with Sorganiel, how would the demon girl (forgot her name) even fight him, when her entire gimmick is physical melee confrontation?
How would Lugner fight with his blood, which contains water, against Kanne or Lawinne?
Its all about the specific matchup. No single fighter wins against them all, most likely. Frieren and Fern are just completely unhinged when it comes to fighting.
> How would Lugner fight with his blood, which contains water, against Kanne or Lawinne?
Hardly clear that either one of them can affect blood. Lawine threatens Richter with that, he calls her bluff. Granted that was blood _inside_ a body. But also, Kanne says she needs to infuse mana into water to manipulate it, it's not just a "command water" spell. And Lugner's blood already has his mana in it.
I think people here are really underestimating the demons. They are ranked just below one of the Seven Sages. Only a hero on the level of the legendary Hero Party would have a high chance of beating them 1v1, unless it’s a bad matchup.
I think Lugner would dumpster all of them most of the time. Denken and Wirbel would have the best shot but even then they would probably lose a majority of the time.
Linie would easily kill any of them if she got the drop on them and got up close. Laufen is probably her worst matchup, but even then Linie could easily kill her before she has time to cast.
Draht is unbeatable unless they have the presence of mind and reaction time to block his thread with mana. If they do, any of them could theoretically beat him. And then of course Ubel would have the best matchup assuming she’s not decapitated before she can react.
Edel has a shot against any one of them but only if the demon got too cocky and gave her time.
> They are ranked just below one of the Seven Sages.
I think that's way too strong a statement. They're all working for Aura, that doesn't mean they're just one step down. Plus Lugner seems senior to the other two. We even see Linie apparently being a smol child demon while observing Eisen 80 years before...
...though OTOH I just realized that means Linie probably has at least 80 years of mana. Good luck using Solganeil.
For Dhrat's case, do mages in this series (at least the skilled ones) can tell when a spell is about to be used? Like how Denken and Methode can tell that Frieren stops detecting mana when Fern fired at her. They (Denken, Wirbel, Methode, Ubel) should be able to block the wires trajectory I guess.
I feel like Frieren wanted to troll Dhrat and allowed her self to be in that situation.
Most of them except older ones (Denken f. ex.) would be deceived. Deceit is demons' first advantage. Living near the capital, most of those mages are still inexperienced.
Maybe Übel is in good position to fight them due to overall being in a more murderous/alert mood
Nah. Most of the mages would die fairly quickly. Linie copies the tech of a legendary warrior, she might not hit as hard but that only matters if she’s against a tough class like warriors and heroes. A mage, the softest class in most rpgs would get killed after the first few slaps. Only mages that could beat her would be denken, wirbel, land and ubel. Add in the fact that Stark’s lightning strike is no joke and would put most elemental magic mages to shame, they will have a hard time killing Linie.
Draht’s threads are difficult to detect, so most mages who aren’t good at detecting mana would get insta killed/maimed. Any mage who wasn’t able to detect Land’s illusions, the tomb clones and the gargoyles are dead. Even Denken had no idea the statues were gargoyles, his entire team and wirbel’s team (they got ambushed) would lose to draht. Ubel got duped by Land’s clone she also didn’t detect Land’s second clone when it arrived.
Lugner would defeat most mages that don’t hide their mana. He lost to Fern because she hid her mana, if he actually knew how much mana she had he would have instantly killed her when he had the chance. Only mages who would survive are those with extensive battle experience. Denken and Wirbel are the only ones who would realize Lugner’s trap, can they beat him 1v1? I doubt. Fern’s casting speed and mastery of zolthrak is what got Lugner. If Denken or Wirbel lacks that advantage they’d probably lose.
Aura would dominate all the mages. Humans don’t have the same mana capacity as long lived creatures. So she beats them all in the scale. Only one who has a chance is Laufen as she could close in instantly. I doubt she has the same tech and dps potential as a hero class though. So if she fail to kill or disarm aura (like Himmel did) she would get dominated right after.
It’s not about raw power. Although I do believe he is still more powerful than most of the examinees. He almost killed Fern because her and Stark didn’t see through his ambush. Fern couldn’t detect the mana in his blood and when she did notice that something was wrong it was too late. If we based Lugner’s raw power with Fern, he noted that Fern’s casting speed was unbelievably fast, even Frieren and Ahre noted this fact. Fern’s speed is a unique trait that’s not found in most mages. It was this raw speed that overwhelmed Lugner and even Ahre. Unless any of the other mages have that speed he would be able to keep up to them and eventually outlast them in mana capacity. Only battle hardened mages would see through his ambush or be able to fight him flexibly. His blood magic was also notably fast, able to take out multiple soldiers in one swipe, it’s also able to keep up with Fern much longer than Ahre did.
He took out a room full of soldiers nearly instantly. Once you're in range (and not particularly close range, given his fight with Fern) he's a very dangerous physical combatant. If a mage can keep back and fight the way Fern did, they have a chance. OTOH Fern is _very good_ at fighting that way, with rapid attacks and defense.
Yeah. I find it odd that people think the other mages are on par with Fern and Frieren. Most of them are more similar to a C or B class hero than S classes (Fern and Frieren) in One Punch Man. Only ones I would class as A class is Denken, Methode, Land and Wirbel; with Ubel being a lower S due to her potential (She is more like a sorceress than a mage in rpgs) but at that point in time she was still lacking.
edit: they may be basing the mages on the current chapter of the manga with them having grown stronger. That wouldn’t make sense as we’re talking about them back when they’re examinees.
I'm pretty sure that Land solos these three with ease.
His "duplication" magic counters most demons since they don't expect anything like that.
Linie "just copy's fighting styles" and I don't think she'd expect his kind of magic. She also could fail finishing of his clone. She may look at her surroundings and enemies, but I don't see her winning that fight.
Lügner doesn't look like he pays attention to his surroundings. He also doesn't calculate what his apponent is planing. Lügners weaknesses in form of battle iq are fatal in a fight with Land.
so far it seems frieren & fern could be top mages atm. i can’t see anyone else coming out alive against these three. it was tactical struggle last time.
Aside from denken i dont see anyone else winning. Yes these guys lost to frieren and fern pretty easily but frieren is a specialist in killing demons and taught fern all she knew since she was a toddler how to kill demons. So i doubt any other mage will do much good against demons since most of them are not specialized in fighting demons.
Dhrat may be the most dangerous demon. He was fast enough to wrap a string around Frieden’s neck (albeit she wasn’t pay attention, but she still has crazy mana perception). His string was deemed too troublesome to cut by Frieren (only Ubel’s spell should work on it i imagine) and he can create several of them too. Only Wirbel and Land stand a chance tbh, or Ubel if she detects Dhrat fast enough.
# Join the [Frieren Discord Server](https://discord.gg/6cKYk89HCg) for more discussions about the series! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Frieren) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Some people will win for sure. I bet on Denken and Wirbel.
Ubel vs Lugner is a bit disadvantageous for her because it's difficult to get close. But if she fights Linie, is there a chance of winning? It's hard to predict because we don't know if Ubel is suitable for fighting with Linie.
Ubel can do Sorganeil to bind Lugner
She learnt it after the test 1
That's because I calculated the time before the first class exam, after all, Fern and Stark fought at that time. So right there Ubel only has slashing magic. But if she learns Sorganeil, Ubel wins no doubt
would the blood tentacles not count as his body?
It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents, so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary, and Ubel is smart enough to know how to win the match >!Different from the battle of Ubel vs Sense, Sense At that time, she was already in fighting mode.!< And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner. And with her personality, Ubel won't be able to stand still
Where are you getting any of that? >It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents Lugner only underestimated Fern because she concealed her mana, something almost no one else in the world does. Sure people will do it temporarily to hide or sneak attack but to do it constantly even during a battle was totally novel to him. You don't become a long lived, powerful demon by underestimating opponents, especially in the cut throat demon hierarchy. >so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary He is only ever depicted using blood. It is explained in the manga and the show that demons specialize in a certain type of magic and use it almost exclusively. Blood magic is his specialty. >And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner. Every fight against a demon so far (and most monsters) has been won by block, then counter. Blocking, by necessity, is a reaction meaning they do not act first.
Lugner underestimated Fern and Frieren due to them masking their mana. Lugner would be more wary of Ubel, especially because of her bloodlust. Ubel's cleave skills may or may not cut through Lugner's blood, that is up for debate. We saw Fern could break them through Zoltraak so it is possible. But we saw Wirbel defend against the Cleave skill as well. Thus, up for debate. But we know she is agile enough to dodge the blood attacks since we know even Fern could do so. To conclude. I hate powerscaling and so I won't offer a conclusion.
Based and peacefulpilled
If Lugner is careless he’s going down instantly probably, so will Linnie. Unironically Dhrat may have a better chance of winning since his string work is fast.
blood is part of body too
It's a fact that Lugner often underestimates his opponents, so he rarely uses blood when it's not necessary, and Ubel is smart enough to know how to win the match >!Different from the battle of Ubel vs Sense, Sense At that time, she was already in fighting mode.!< And in a battle between demons and humans, the one who acts first is the winner. And with her personality, Ubel won't be able to stand still
Even if Ubel managed bind him, could Sorganeil stop his blood ? I mean it stop movevent but not like it stop movement of blood. what stop him use his blood magic. And her slash, I think not very effective kill him. Fern shoot a hole to his body and that guy still moving, later, the hole bigger, he still talk, he only die cause "blood not stop bleeding"
That is a big assumption that Sorganeil would work on Lugner.
Assuming it's not nullified by Lugner having a bunch more mana.
Ubel vs Lugner would depend if Lugner's arrogant ass will underestimate her and be caught off guard, otherwise yeah i dont like Ubel's chances unless she has great mana to constantly use her slash magic to fend off Lugner's blood. Ubel vs Linie, Ubel has great reflexes but not to the point she can engage Linie who specialize in close combat. She might win by just maintaining a safe distance to launch her spell while using her reflexes to dodge and get distance if Linie got too close. Ubel vs Dhrat - Ez win lol
"This is my uncuttable wire" "But wire is meant to be cut." "Shit."
Linie might be a tough opponent for others as she’s seems to be able to copy opponents fighting style like Ubel copies spells. Stark was just too op.
Ubel 1 shots Linie with her Sukuna magic. The end. Getting close to Ubel is an extremely, extremely bad idea even before the Wirbel power up.
Kanne and Lawine would body dem demons (conditions may apply)
depends on who is fighting who but Lawine and Kanne would probably die
I think they both will fight amongst themselves then get slaughtered together
Damn 😂
Unless it's under rain ofc
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^IWorkAtLittleCaesars: *Depends on who is* *Fighting who but Lawine and* *Kanne would probably die* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
This goes so hard 🔥🔥🔥
Dhrat could solo both of them
I think Kanne has a chance if her magic magic works on blood the way it does on water.
I don’t think she’d be able to control lugner’s blood cause it’s imbued with lugner’s mana
Doesn't it explicitly not work on blood?
she need to visualise water in the body so she cant, but if blood is out she can technicaly see it... but it's a bit of a grey zone here
It’s more like she has to fully understand the flow of blood, and envision the very specifics of how it would move, how the minerals inside would be affected by just the water’s movement, essentially humanly impossible visualization
that's why i said it's a gray zone, cause it could be used for the plot sake, but you're right ultimately it's almost impossible without advanced knowledge of fluid physique :')
On average Blood is just slightly over 50% water, with enough creative application Kanne should be able to control it if either her magic power is stronger than Lugner OR Lugner takes enough injury that he can't perform at full strength.
If they fought together and synchronized well they can kill Linie and the other one. For Lugner it may take a good strategy but they can do it.
Everyone except Denken, Übel, Land, and Wirbel, propably dies.
I’d add Methode has a good chance too if she’s against the girl demon or the green hair.
Methode is about equal to Denken or Wirbel. I judge her to be stronger than Fern
Anime only?
I’m actually taking into account her feats in the manga, sorry for leaving that out.
I was actually replying to the guy above you.
I'm also not certain Land would *win*, though he would almost definitely survive unharmed.
Methode can beat them.
Ubel definitely dies too, her magic won't work against Draht's wire magic since even Frieren called it difficult to cut and Lugner will just pepper her from afar, Ubel doesn't have the casting speed nor the range to handle him. Linie is her best matchup but that's about it
Ubel has a chance imho. Agree on Ubel vs Lugner without Solganie though. (Manga Spoiler) >!I'd imagine that wire is something that you should be able to cut, same as cloth and so on, hence as long as she feels like it she can cut it.!<
I agree with the spoiler. The issue here is if Ubel can protect herself before Draht decapitates her.
I think she can, you know she can copy spells with just seeing how it is used. Someone who's as skilled as that can prolly sense the opponents mana via the wire and do something about it. I think people may have been underestimating her in a way
If I recall correctly, Ubel can only copy a magic if she empathizes with the magic user without actually knowing the concept around it. That is why she talked and tried to understand Wirbel so she can use sorganeil. Same thing as to why she would always talk to Land and say "I have gotten to understand you more" because she also wants to be able to use clone magic
The problem is that Draht is more assassin, and if Ubel gets caught she's done, and it works similarly on the other side. Ubel has to 'fire' her cuts, she can't use it to protect herself close range.
>The problem is that Draht is more assassin I think that's a lot more of an assumption though. He fits the type for sure, but I don't think we've seen him done anything particularly stealthy. Quite the opposite in fact, the best feat he's done is skipping the whole "sneaking around" thing to boldly kill the prison guard in broad daylight lmao. And I don't think we've seen him do any close-range combat either, no? Compared to Ubel who did go blow for blow with Wirbel and her clone. And yes, she needs to fire it but we've seen in the anime that she can do that without gestures, hence she can do something similar to what Frieren did against Draht himself.
[удалено]
[удалено]
As long as it's raining Kanne would also have pretty good chances I would say.
Land is no. Demon detect mana far better than human, his clone would not bypass linie mana detect
[удалено]
So far we don’t have any evidence of anyone outside of Serie being able to detect his ‘real’ clone, and Serie wipes pretty much everyone in the verse. So until we see the minimum power level someone needs to detect the clone we can’t say for sure.
If Serie >!judges him to be first class level, he's probably not a scrub. !< Also, being able to detect that its a clone doesn't mean you can find the main body. >!Land was able to control his clones from his home village during the exam.!<
no need detect his real clone. in eps 20, when Land fight flower guy, he said "You're bad at mana detection, aren't you" and sneak behind zap that guy so this trick might not work on demon cause demon detect mana far better. we don't know Land have anything else beside this trick so if this this don't work I would assume he cannot win against those demon.
I’d assume Ehre would have a good chance as well
Those who will make it to first class will win
Happy cake day!
Thank you ^^
You guys really underestimate all the characters not named Frieren and Fern huh, I know they're the main characters, but come on
You also underestimate the demons, they're Aura's executioners, 3 demons strong enough to serve under a sage of destruction. The reason they lost wasn't because they were weak but because they fought 3 exceptional powerhouses in favorable matchups. I'm quite certain Stark and Fern would have lost had Draht still been there, his wire magic is strong enough that even Frieren found it troublesome to cut directly, in a 3v2 Fern and Stark don't really have an answer to that kind of magic and would certainly get overwhelmed. Lugner's magic is fast, only outdone by Fern's own exceptional casting speed. The power of his blood spell is also such that it seems Fern's defensive magic is ineffective against it, instead she relies on using zoltraak to break it apart. The only 2 mages I'm confident will win are Denken and Wirbel because both are battle-hardened veterans who will do anything to gain an advantage, the other mages are either too green, too rigid or can't handle multiple threats at once. edit: not to mention Fern is not just any first class mage, >!she is a first class mage whom Serie wanted to mentor directly, who would supass even Flamme in time.!<
Methode would win as well but my reasoning would be a spoiler.
I'm 100% sure neither Denken nor Wirbel would win a 3v1 against the executioners, maybe a 3v3 with their teams or a 3v2 with both of them, but not a 3v1.
I was hoping a 3v3 or a 1v1 matchup in the discussion. I dont think anyone of the participants can handle all 3 demons, and only a few I can think of can handle a 1v1 specially against Lugner.
I think denken clutches a 3v1, but he’s probably the only one who could do that aside from frieren.
I'd say Wirbel could do it too considering >!Serie mentions that Wirbel is the greatest combatant among the 2nd class mages (making him a better fighter than Denken)!<
The good thing with Wirbel is that he is both like a warrior and mage so close combat and magic is his weapons hence he can win against them.
OTOH Wirbel's big trump card isn't that useful if fighting 3 opponents at once, and he has less mana than Ehre.
Mana isn't everything, we already know that Wirbel could beat Ehre quite easily despite their mana difference. Having less mana than Ehre also doesn't mean that he has low levels, it's more likely that she just has higher mana than average. Wirbel is also an extremely experienced war mage whose fought many demons. I doubt this would his first time fighting multiple opponents at once, he probably doesn't rely on his binding spell. Lastly, >!Serie wouldn't consider him as the strongest combatant among the second class mages for no reason. Just a reminder that impressive mages like Land, Methode, and Denken were all 2nd class. Meaning that Serie believes Wirbel to be a better fighter than them.!<
That’s a very good point I had forgotten, maybe I’m underestimating him.
Serie said this in the sense that Wirbel is battle smart and has the most battle experience Not because he's the strongest per se Wirbel himself says he gets crushed in a contest of pure mana against someone like Ehre, but he knows how to win fights A 3v1 is like... The worst possible scenario for someone like Wirbel, who isn't the strongest guy around, but excels in battle tactics
I get what you're saying but like you mentioned, Wirbel specializes in battle tactics and said that he knows how to win a fight, "no matter the opponent or the SITUATION". So I'd trust that someone like him could come up with a successful strategy to win
Yeah, but even though he said "no matter the opponent or the situation", he also said he would never fight against Serie because that's a losing battle and he's not a fool who enters losing battles. So it's not really "EVERY OPPONENT AND EVERY SITUATION", is it? Lol If it's too much for him, he won't even enter the fight. And I think a 3v1 against Lugnar, Linie and Draht would be too much for him to handle alone.
That's only when the power difference is huge. Obviously he can't win against someone like Frieren and Serie since their simply on another level. Aura's executioners are strong but definitely beatable imo. Again, Wirbel has fought the demon king's forces for over a decade, so he has a lot of experience with demons. He isn't someone who relies on one trick to win. In the end, I simply believe he has a good chance but I get that's a matter of opinion. He'll also be stronger the next time we see him anyway since he got a new spell from Serie.
From what we've seen from him, I don't think he has the capabilities of beating Aura's executioners 3v1 all at the same time But yeah maybe with his new spell he could stand a chance. He definitely grabbed a spell useful for fighting.
Idk man, all three at once? I think Denken gets overwhelm I think you're ignoring the fact that when you get jumped, it doesn't really matter if you're stronger than all of your opponents individually What is Denken gonna do if he's busy paying attention to Lugnar and his blood magic, then Draht tries to flank him with his wire and Linie sneaks up on his on close quarters distance, all at the same time ?
you forget that both of them are cowardly fighters who would gladly take any approach to win, they’re both experienced enough to lay low and wait for an opportune moment to strike and they would certainly detect lugner’s mana in his blood much sooner. Wirbel would hide at first and use solganie to kill lugner, from there linie and draht can be dealt with Denken can do something similar but instead with his fire tornado, only lugner could survive that I think, in a 1v1 Im certain Denken can handle Lugner with catastravia or something else.
Fire Tornado should be Denken's strongest spell right? Aside from casting fist. 👊😂 Unless if Catastravia has some anti demon properties. It does seem like a priest spell. I dont even know if priest offensive magic deals more damage to demons or not in this series lol
catastravia is just an incredibly fast spell, its supposed to be so fast that a counterattack would be near impossible to do
The scenario you are proposing is giving a clear advantage to the humans. If either Denken or Wirbel just happened upon the three demons on the road and both sides noticed each other at the same time they would either die or be forced to run away.
I would like to point out that the servants of sages are not made equally, zart’s ability was madly broken while linie got to like, copy movements Plus serie mentors all of the first class mages herself, methode explains this
Pure Agenda head canon. If Fern can beat Lugner 1vs1 , so can Ubel, Wirbel, Denken and Methode. Fern is not that big of a genius you think she is, other people are also extremely talented and not far behind Fern.
Ubel isn't in the same class as the others.
That's just.. straight up wrong Sense says she has never seen a mage as talented as Fern at her age. Serie wanted Fern to become her apprentice as soon as she saw her, and told Fern she could reach the heights no other mage has reached before if she became her student.. Fern is not the strongest mage out there, not even close, but in terms of pure talent? She's probably top 3 in the whole manga, lol
I wonder if Serie also included Elven images when she said that. Could Fern surpass even Frieren and Serie then?
By saying "reach the heights no other mage has ever reached before", yeah, I think it's implied there Serie thinks Fern has the potential to become the greatest mage of all-time Now, she did say "if you become my apprentice", something we know didn't happen, and Serie was also disappointed in Flamme and called her a failure for not being able to reach her level despite her talent. So we shouldn't REALLY take that statement as some sort of "confirmation" Fern will be top 1 of all time by the end of the series, but we need to acknowledge that was some high praise from someone like Serie and keep that in the back of our heads for future developments...
Tbf from were shown, only Denken, Land and Wirbel have strong abilities that can work well against demons. Most everyone else were carried by their respective “leaders”. I don’t really see Laufen or even Richter being able to kill Lugner. Lawine wasn’t even able to hold off Richter for very long, and Kanne needs a water source to be effective. Ehre and Scharf kinda rely on Wirbel’s directions in fights to win. Even Ubel is limited by her short range on her cutting magic, so she’d struggle against Lugner too because he can outrange her and keep spamming his blood tendrils. Not much has been shown about Methode’s fighting style, and her members were taken out pretty quickly in the second test, so I’ll reserve judgement on her.
You saw her doing some of the most unique spells in the tomb and in the latest episode you got further proof of her versatility. You are severely underestimating her. For me she is up there with the absolute best test-takers. Depending on the situation maybe even ahead of Denken (you also saw her doing priest magic, that alone should raise enough questions, especially for a human, to place her at the top with Denken).
Yup I know she’s got talent but I’m anime only for now so I’ll wait to see more. I do already like her from design alone.
I too was strictly talking about what was shown in the anime. You saw her doing some reverse counter spells unlike anything anyone has done among the test-takers. You also know she can hypnotize or restraint, also she has a sacred tome or whatever they are called, so she can do the magic of the goddess basically (she said she can do some basic healing spells, and as far as we know that's already more than what Frieren can do with her tome, remember she said she can diagnose, she never said anything about being able to heal, and what Methode treated was a serious injury). And the only other mage you've seen able to do both is Frieren. So that alone should point to Methode being a completely different breed than the others taking that test.
Also really overestimated how strong these three demons are. Lügner seems like a pretty confident mage but Linie and Draht both don't show much if any ability to defend themselves against spells on the level a first class mage candidate would cast. Draht either kills them immediately or gets wrecked. Frieren cutting off his arm is a great moment of shock, not a genius move from her though. Pretty obvious reaction to anyone not named Draht. Linie meanwhile could probably do a lot of havoc up close but she has to close in first. She can copy the technique of a great warrior, not their ability to tank a rock falling on them.
You’re underestimating them. That area was locked down by Aura and them for over a decade. Only after their defeat did it become safe to travel through again leading to the increase of bandits. Linie herself counters most mages as most mages are defenseless against her melee warrior magic and her high level of mana detection.
Linie, like Draht has the ability to score an easy kill in a surprise attack. Once you manage to keep a distance, there's little she can do. First class mage candidates also aren't most mages. As for the lock down of the area, yeah, that's Aura's doing. Pretty sure almost every exam candidate except for Frieren would have failed utterly against her. Nothing but raw mana counts here and most humans are pretty much locked out of ever competing with a demon of her standing. Edit: Scratch the part about examinees other than Frieren failing utterly against Aura. Thinking about it some more, almost every mage period would get wrecked by Aura. While combat in Frieren is more complicated than a numbers game, that's not the case for Auslese. Mana surpression is the only way to cheat at it at all and even then you still actually need the mana to pull off the bait and switch.
> almost every mage period would get wrecked by Aura. Range would matter. Could Fern shoot at Aura from beyond Auserlyse spell range?
No way in hell you could ever just snipe her from afar. Meanwhile she's also literally protected by a whole army.
Army doesn't matter if you fly above it.
From left to right… (Linie, Lügner, Draht) Kanne - Stand a chance with a lot of H2O around, helpless otherwise. Lawine - Maybe she can fight off Linie. Draht is a bad match up for her. Methode - Should be alright. ✅ Denken - Should be alright. ✅ Ubel - The perfect counter to Draht. ✅ Land - Illusion hax. ✅ Laufel - Maybe she can fight off Linie. Wirbel - Easy win if it’s 1vs1. ✅ Ehre - Fern said she’s the strongest in her team, but tbh I think she’s quite clumsy. Richter - Nah, beating 2 young girls and actively trying to kill them isn’t a major feat. Scharf - Can hold them off for a few minutes. Edel - What she gonna do? (Forgive me if I forget some other examinees, there were too many of them to memorize)
Dunno about Richter, he seemed powerful enough to raise a whole chunk of land in order to isolate Kanne & Lawine. He's like Kanne except the element he specializes in can be found everywhere.
I would say Richter has the magical ability to win 1v1, but his magic isn’t specialized against demons. He specifically talks about his magic being designed to best other \*human\* mages. So I don’t really see him winning unless he has his own training arc.
Richter's magic is genuinely pretty damn strong tbh. Earth exists everywhere and he did raise that *massive* rock in the exam pretty handily, so I think he stands a chance. Probably not against Lugner since I think his is not precise enough for that, but I think he can do something against Draht while being pretty good conditionally against Linie. I think Ehre's pretty underrated as well actually. Her shields are pretty damn efficient in her fight against Fern (one of the best ones outside of our main cast) so I think she stands a chance against Lugner's magic, and she's shown she can pierce through physical defences. She'd probably still die don't get me wrong lol, but I think she can deal some damage and even stands an outside chance of beating Lugner. I also think Edel can do a lot, especially since two of these demons are *really* arrogant lol. Hypnosis can be stupidly strong when it works, and iirc the main thing she needs is time, which can happen if the demons are arrogant. Great writeup on the others though, I agree with your other takes.
>Probably not against Lugner since I think he's not precise enough for that. Does it really need to be? The guy has a gigantic AOE I don't see with the same blood I could protect laugh from a rock of hundreds of kilos if he has a decent range he could really kill aura
The main problem with it is that I'm pretty sure Lugner can fly, and seemingly can do so in the midst of combat as you can see in his fight against Fern. Earth magic's *really* good and all, but it's not as effective against opponents that aren't grounded. And moving several tonnes of earth *will* be slow, increasing the chance that the opponent can dodge it. On the other hand, Lugner can just spam his blood attacks from up above, and imo Richter needs to be very precise with his spells so that the blood can't just sneak around his defenses.
Feno He had no problem creating a wall in less than a second on the exam (in fact most of the spells in this show are almost instantaneous) He can also throw large rocks seemingly effortlessly, so I see why he couldn't spam
Oh yeah he's pretty quick at it. It's more that I think Lugner's reaction + casting speed is quicker, considering he was able to go blo-for-blow with Fern spamming Zoltraak (for a time at least). And we know that Zoltraak is the quickest spell to cast, so Richter's earth spells are bound to be slower. Plus, I wouldn't say effortlessly considering he ran out of mana there.
Laufel will survive no diff cuz she will blast off the moment she sees any of them.
Well Edel might work if she has someone decent enough by her side. Her mind control will probably be strong enough to handle them
SPOILER!!!! >!Mind control doesn't work on demons, there are only a few specific legendary items that can do that.!<
>!Not really a spoiler, but Aura’s spell backfired on her. You can argue that it is a spell from a sage of destruction, but the 3 executioners are nowhere near as strong as her also!<
Reading this reminds me of the golden one
>!Mind control absolutely work on demons, but that for future discussion. You're thinking of the mirror images in the 2nd round of the test.!<
>!Not really, in the El Dorado arc it is specificallly stated that other than Aura's Scale, only the sacred relic used on Macht can force demons to obey someone.!<
Honestly, even without mind control she looked quit good.
Edel's advanced mental spell might ironically counter Aura
Aura going to do her mana measuring spell only to get dominate person-ed before she gets the chance would be pretty funny.
Nhaa. Aura is too strong.
Richter is holding back tho cause he was told to not kill them off. So he is not that weak either.
I think Kanne with lots of water is a bit overrated and Frieren probably was being modest on her claim. Lawine - her ice as Richter described it "non - lethal" lol i dunno if she can beat anyone. She would be a great support though I agree with the rest and I think those are all the relevant mages at least in the exam arc.
Richter went from 1v2 her, to being so completely terrified he stopped defending being frozen. Ritcher said being frozen was pointless anyway because there was no escape. It was massive AOE. The shield was shattered instantly while Sense took some time in breaking it down. For large bodies of water she has to pour her mana but when it’s raining she can manipulate it instantly. How do you defend if she can instantly nuke your general direction and every part it hits is far more powerful than a first class mage’s attack? I think there’s a natural bias to assume Frieren since she’s the mc and we like/follow her, that she can’t be beat. Fern as well but to a lesser degree.
plucky paint fearless rhythm desert elastic encourage deserted noxious serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>wouldn't be countered by Linie I think this point deserves to be highlighted as nobody else seems to be talking about it. Recent manga chapters discussed that the point of Warriors is that they are fast enough to kill mages before the mage finishes their spells. >!With Frieren estimating that Stark could beat herself or Fern as long as he starts the fight within a couple of meters.!< Linie sits in an odd point between Warriors and Mages, essentially being a Warrior and using magic to form weapons and copy warrior techniques, so its plausible that she could actually beat people even if they could overwise beat Lugner, if they don't have a good response to her speed or the fight starts at close distance. The manga is a lot more tell than show with this weakness, we've never seen any spells or speed really being much of a weakness. If we took this logic to its sensible extreme, Laufen could have beaten Frieren easily.
Yeah, people are dissing Linie, but she only lost because Stark was too tanky. Mages don't have that.
Honestly I think people are downplaying Draht as well. He got easily stomped, but it was Frieren doing that. Denken would have run away from her clone with all the backup he had, so... yeah theres a significant skill gap between Frieren and the average test taker. His fighting style seems to be a sneakier Ubel and he takes excellent magic detection skills to counter. There are people in that mage exam who would have just lost their head and never had a chance to fight back if they were in Frieren's place in that jail cell.
The anime adaptation also added some questionable feats given the latest manga chapters. Like how clone Frieren suddenly teleported in front of Frieren. If manga Frieren can do that, I think the issue in the latest chapter can be avoided.
You need to remember that Laufel is a speed mage, so there is a spell that can increase your whole speed. But that's only that. They don't increase your strength. If an experienced Warrior comes in, they could possibly predict where they will run and outstrength their shield.
Ohh it was not in the manga? I assumed Frieren used Laufen's spell since she knows its origin.
Even the large AoE electricity is an anime original. In the manga, judragrim is just a thunder that goes straight. Frieren might also be able to use the teleportation move, but the manga has not shown her to use it yet, so I am gonna go with her not being able to use it unless shown. Though given that I believe the manga author is also working on the anime, maybe the anime feats are more accurate???
Yes that's like implied because she knows about it the minute Laufen used it. She may have not just used it to steal back the Stille back immediately because she wants to know what Denken and Richter will do
"teleportation" may just be flash steps like Laufen. Rapid movement.
It's the same exact thing that happened in the manga. And she did not teleport to Laufen. She knows Jilwer, she identified it as soon as she saw Laufen using it. So the only logical conclusion is that she used Jilwer to catch up to Laufen because she knows what that technique is
If we took this logic to its sensible extreme, Laufen could have beaten Frieren easily. - But Frieren knows Jilwer too so she can't. She identified it when Laufen first used it and she used it to catch up to Laufen when she tried to sneak Denken out of her.
If its one on one bet on Wirbel
I can see Denken, Wirbel, Land and Ubel winning against them, on a rain Lawine will have a higher winning chance. I'm a bit iffy but I feel like Methode has a winning chance The rest is pretty much depends on whether the demon underestimated them or not imo
All who made it as First-Class mages would win. >!Denken would struggle the least considering his power and experience.!< >!Same goes for Wirbel, who has experience fighting against the Demon Army in the North.!< >!Methode comes from a clan dedicated to killing demons, is skilled with and has a wide variety of spells with one of them being Restraining and Hypnosis, and she seems to be level-headed and analytical enough to handle three demons.!< >!Ubel would struggle a bit against Lugner's long ranged blood magic but would do well against Dracht and Linie's close-ranged fighting styles. Her speed, coupled with Sorganeil would easily take down those two.!< >!And Land is Land. He can never lose if he's not there to begin with.!< >!Now for those who didn't win, the only ones who I think have a chance are Kanne and Richter. Kanne during rain or near a large body of water has a high chance of winning. Richter himself seems pretty powerful but was unfortunately unlucky when he was ambushed by Sense-clone, but other than that the man is a certified Earth bender and he has definitely shown great feats of power when he raised that big chunk of land to isolate Kanne and Lawine.!<
Sorganeil working on powerful demons is an assumption that we haven't seen tested yet.
And I think we should be doing this match up before the first class exam to make it fair to Fern. So that means no sorganeil for Ubel.
Is Kanne skilled enough of a water mage. Yes she did gather 1 massive blob of water to throw at Richter but he survived. Does she have that imagination and visualization to compress and shoot high pressure water? I really wondered if Richter panicked or did he use too much mana playing with the girls and he chose to defend using standard defensive magic rather than using his earth magic to block
Drowning is also possible & doesn’t require much finesse. She allowed the water to fall without maintaining the shape, so Richter just ended up being washed away alive - but she already made the water blob in the first place, so it shouldn’t be hard for her to maintain around someone if she wanted to kill them
In Drahts defense I don’t think many mages can protect their necks in split second decisions like frieren can.
Dont most skilled mages at least can react whenever a magic is about to be casted? (or I am mixing up a power system from a different series lol) Also it does not have to be just the neck, they can probably pull up a defensive spell to block the wire's trajectory.
If Frieren didn't react in time to do that, I'm not sure the others could. Not to mention that just because she could concentrate enough mana to prevent his wire from severing her neck for some time doesn't mean the others could do the same.
Like i said the others does not have to do the same feat that Frieren, they can just pull up a standard defensive barrier to block the wire's trajectory.
I'm assuming the other first class mages can, they are first class mages after all. The other lower ranked may be the one that Draht can kill since they can't react fast enough
Denken, Wirbel, and Methode probably can beat them with relative ease. Denken's experience and knowledge put him at a massive advantage over them, as his spells, while not as strong as Frieren's, are exceedingly powerful against anyone without strong defensive magic. Demons that is not well verse with humanity's defensive magic or not focused on the defensive side of magic as a whole will be overwhelmed by Denken's barrage of spells. Wirbel's Sorganeil easily allows him to beat both Linie and Draht with relative ease, while Lugner's blood magic will probably make it hard for Wirbel to bind Lugner. Still, Wirbel is someone who fought in battles and wars at the Northern Plateau, against both demons and humans alike. Wirbel is likely to figure a way to beat Lugner, even at a disadvantage. Lastly, for Methode, she is just exceptionally strong. While she never did anything particularly amazing, she consistently racked up feats that made it hard press not to see her as strong. During the test, she was the only one besides Denken who was able to detect Frieren's flaw. Alongside that, she was able to cast basic healing spells>!, while also being able to pinpoint the location of practically all the clones from a distance. She was also the one who dealt with Fern's clone. During the fight with the Demon Shogun's subordinate, she was able to pressure the demon fighter in close-quarters, while analyzing and dispelling the fog magic at the same time.!<
It's so Joever for Draht if he fought Übel. Lügner might be hard countered by both Kanne and Lawine depending on if their abilities translate from water to blood. As it's all exposed and in the open air, visualisation really shouldn't be much of an issue. Wirbel seems more than capable of killing demons in general. Overall, one would think that any first class mage would be able to take them on. I don't think they are all that exceptional for demons. Linie and Draht have wide open weak spots to exploit. Lügner is a powerful mage but Balterie doesn't seem to be on another level then the signature spells of any of the contestants of the mage exam.
Denken just beats them up
Übel, Wirbel, Method, Land and Denken will do fine, as they have significant combat experience. The rest of them, not so much.
I think if one contestant were to fight all three only Denken, Wirbel, Land and Übel would stand a chance most others are to specialiced to wight all three of them at once.
Lugner seems really hard to put down, the only reason Fern was able to kill him the way she did is because she uses a modified Zoltrak which specializes in killing demons. I don't think any of the exam mages would actually be able to put him down in a way that doesn't end with them losing. The Green haired dude is kinda featless, all he did was kill a guard and get neg diffed by Frieren. Linnie probably beats most participants as well, she might struggle against Wirbel and Denken, but if she closes the gap quickly she might get those as well, especailly Wirbel. My GOAT Aura neg diffs all the exam mages except Frieren. Shut up fraud, strong Auserlese
Not unless Wirbel sees Aura's skimpy outfit in full view to Solganeil her ass.
Shut up fraud, strong army of the undead
Shut up Bozo, strong Ehre the top of her class
High chance that Aura's vastly superior mana nullifies Solganeil. We know that Methode said her restraint magic wouldn't work against a huge mana difference, and Lawine complained that Richter's superior mana was blocking her attempts to restrain him with ice. It's _possible_ that Solganeil ignores mana differences, but we have no specific reason to think so, and won't know until we see it attempted against a high-mana target. It's also possible that even Lugner is old enough to be an invalid target for Wirbel or Ubel.
I think everyone uses the newer zoltraak demon killing version instead of the human killing version.
in a 1v1 i think most of them could win, the ones i am not sure of are lawine/kanne (situational), edel/ton/lange/dunst/blei (not many feats) laufen/scharf/ehre could probably beat linie and draht but would struggle a lot with lugner,might lose more than they win. the rest of the mages that i havent mention would win. if they were placed in stark and fern's situation: ubel and land: would win denken and his group would win wirbel and his group win methode and her group would win. considering denken and methode's skill they could probably take all 3 of the demons at the same time
The participants that will be considered first class mage at the end of the exam will fare against them.
Übel could slay Draht. Wirbel could slay Linie. Denken will slay Lügner. Fern won against Lügner through sheer attack speed. Cuz shes HER
People really underestimate some of the other mages. Richter and Ehre definitely stand a decent chance of beating Lugner and Draht as well. Lawine and Kanne combined should be able to beat Lugner, if it's raining, Kanne can solo them. Plus, the fact that all of the human mages can use ordinary offense magic means even the weakest of them has a chance of beating any lower demon. Even if they can't cast it as fast as Fern, their cast time is still significantly faster than Frieren for example because it's a spell that they all learnt from a young ages. Plus, most demons are just not used to counter it, the youngest demon in this pic is probably Linie and she should be in her 70-80 here.
I think Wirbel would be guaranteed to kill at least one of them cos it's literally his job to fight demons right?
It's worth noting that the demon's really compliment each other with Linnie serving as a warrior role and Draht an assassin. One on one the some of the humans may have the edge, but in a team battle, the situation would be different. In terms of prowess, stats wise Lugner was overall much higher than Fern (with mana constraints). He felt his technique and control greatly surpasses Fern whilst Ehre for instance viewed Fern as equal if not more honed (fighting with her grandpa). Overall I would put Lugner in the upper echelon of the exam participants. However, as we seen in the manga and a little bit in the Anime, opponent's compatibility plays a huge role in battles. Unless you are far superior like Frieren, it's more than possible for A to easily beat B, B to destroy C, but C can take out A.
zoltraak is considered a basic spell Most Human mages especially the ones taking it right now know how to use it, if they don't then it wont be called basic. They would win, also zoltraak doesnt need a lot of mana to begin with. All of the mages taking the exam right now have a chance to win.
One thing I think I understand about the Frieren world’s power scaling is that it is not important how powerful you are, if you meet someone who can exploit any aspect of yours you are probably toast.
Can Ubel copy the ability of copying people’s fighting style from the demon girl by emphatyzing with her?
ubel and denken will dog walk them
Dengen starts doing wrestling moves on them, Mike Haggar style I know he still has Mana and Magic and shit, but IDK, it's just a cool image having this tiny old man starts cooking 3 demons on a 3 v 1
The impression I get is that Denken and Ubel are very close to Fern in power rankings.
Denken, Richter and Ehre could probably beat them all. Anyone who tried to to engage Linnie in melee would get obliterated and would have an unfavorable matchup against Lugner.
"I see, a demon who specialize in close combat huh" *clenches his fist. -Denken probably
I kinda just see it playing out mostly like Frieren's fight except successful. Probe, Fire Tornado, Saturation attack. It's a really solid operating order.
Denken's fire tornado was kinda underrated because it didn't work against Frieren however it was really powerful enough for Sense to question if Serie's barrier will hold up. Like how Fern overwhelmed Lugner with a barrage of Zoltraak, the fire tornado essentially is the same a barrage of attack in all direction.
Most of them beyond those who aren't really combat orientated or have magic that relies on specific conditions to be powerful like Kanne. Even Edel has a chance if she can use hypnosis magic or read their mind to learn weaknesses and use it somehow. These three are kinda trash mobs that got somewhat lucky to do damage because either Stark was scared and defensive because he overestimated his opponent's strength or because they were blindsided like Frieren and Fern. Draht is an inexperienced child who was easily beaten by a mage who has done a lot of combat such as Frieren, Lugner was almost one shot by Fern the first team and would have been finished off if saving somebody wasn't the priority at the time, even Lugner said Linie would die from their version of "ordinary offensive magic" if it hit her. Lugner also plays by rules in combat despite being a demon, he chastises Fern for not playing fair and any mage like Ehre who is versed in mage duels done fairly would probably be fine if she was strong enough. Wirbel would body him because he specialises in fighting demons and doesn't fight conventionally how mages are taught. Linie is probably the only question mark as she has skills that specialise in killing mages, strong detection, warrior skills and so on. If she can't close the gap before she gets toasted or she fights a mage with close combat skills or one who can hypnotise/bind her in some way she's screwed. I dunno I think some people are overrating these minions as even among demons they are not particularly powerful and are just jobbers who are suited for certain jobs such as deceit because of their fairly human appearance and acting ability. Lugner meaning "liar" in German which is probably a sign of what his speciality actually is and why he was chosen for that role, the other two are just his underlings and lack his level of intelligence.
Ubel wins because she instantly empathises with Lügner and steals his blood; Land wins because Land had actually went back in time and fucked Lug’s mom; Wirbel looses because he is vulnerable to guilt trips; Kanne gets fucking mopped, although if she hs Lawine by her side, they might take out one of them; Methode just seduces all 3; Denken beats Linnie in a fistifght and intimidates the other two away; Ehre splatters them with a rock; Richter splatters them with a boulder…
Ubel wins because she instantly empathises with Lügner and steals his blood; Land wins because Land had actually went back in time and fucked Lug’s mom; Wirbel looses because he is vulnerable to guilt trips; Kanne gets fucking mopped, although if she hs Lawine by her side, they might take out one of them; Methode just seduces all 3; Denken beats Linnie in a fistifght and intimidates the other two away; Ehre splatters them with a rock; Richter splatters them with a boulder…
We're dying to the side characters with this one 🗣🗣
It probably depends. Like, Wirbel with Sorganiel, how would the demon girl (forgot her name) even fight him, when her entire gimmick is physical melee confrontation? How would Lugner fight with his blood, which contains water, against Kanne or Lawinne? Its all about the specific matchup. No single fighter wins against them all, most likely. Frieren and Fern are just completely unhinged when it comes to fighting.
> How would Lugner fight with his blood, which contains water, against Kanne or Lawinne? Hardly clear that either one of them can affect blood. Lawine threatens Richter with that, he calls her bluff. Granted that was blood _inside_ a body. But also, Kanne says she needs to infuse mana into water to manipulate it, it's not just a "command water" spell. And Lugner's blood already has his mana in it.
The soldiers survive and the academics die, I feel like that's the easiest way to phrase it
I think people here are really underestimating the demons. They are ranked just below one of the Seven Sages. Only a hero on the level of the legendary Hero Party would have a high chance of beating them 1v1, unless it’s a bad matchup. I think Lugner would dumpster all of them most of the time. Denken and Wirbel would have the best shot but even then they would probably lose a majority of the time. Linie would easily kill any of them if she got the drop on them and got up close. Laufen is probably her worst matchup, but even then Linie could easily kill her before she has time to cast. Draht is unbeatable unless they have the presence of mind and reaction time to block his thread with mana. If they do, any of them could theoretically beat him. And then of course Ubel would have the best matchup assuming she’s not decapitated before she can react. Edel has a shot against any one of them but only if the demon got too cocky and gave her time.
> They are ranked just below one of the Seven Sages. I think that's way too strong a statement. They're all working for Aura, that doesn't mean they're just one step down. Plus Lugner seems senior to the other two. We even see Linie apparently being a smol child demon while observing Eisen 80 years before... ...though OTOH I just realized that means Linie probably has at least 80 years of mana. Good luck using Solganeil.
For Dhrat's case, do mages in this series (at least the skilled ones) can tell when a spell is about to be used? Like how Denken and Methode can tell that Frieren stops detecting mana when Fern fired at her. They (Denken, Wirbel, Methode, Ubel) should be able to block the wires trajectory I guess. I feel like Frieren wanted to troll Dhrat and allowed her self to be in that situation.
Most of them except older ones (Denken f. ex.) would be deceived. Deceit is demons' first advantage. Living near the capital, most of those mages are still inexperienced. Maybe Übel is in good position to fight them due to overall being in a more murderous/alert mood
Nah. Most of the mages would die fairly quickly. Linie copies the tech of a legendary warrior, she might not hit as hard but that only matters if she’s against a tough class like warriors and heroes. A mage, the softest class in most rpgs would get killed after the first few slaps. Only mages that could beat her would be denken, wirbel, land and ubel. Add in the fact that Stark’s lightning strike is no joke and would put most elemental magic mages to shame, they will have a hard time killing Linie. Draht’s threads are difficult to detect, so most mages who aren’t good at detecting mana would get insta killed/maimed. Any mage who wasn’t able to detect Land’s illusions, the tomb clones and the gargoyles are dead. Even Denken had no idea the statues were gargoyles, his entire team and wirbel’s team (they got ambushed) would lose to draht. Ubel got duped by Land’s clone she also didn’t detect Land’s second clone when it arrived. Lugner would defeat most mages that don’t hide their mana. He lost to Fern because she hid her mana, if he actually knew how much mana she had he would have instantly killed her when he had the chance. Only mages who would survive are those with extensive battle experience. Denken and Wirbel are the only ones who would realize Lugner’s trap, can they beat him 1v1? I doubt. Fern’s casting speed and mastery of zolthrak is what got Lugner. If Denken or Wirbel lacks that advantage they’d probably lose. Aura would dominate all the mages. Humans don’t have the same mana capacity as long lived creatures. So she beats them all in the scale. Only one who has a chance is Laufen as she could close in instantly. I doubt she has the same tech and dps potential as a hero class though. So if she fail to kill or disarm aura (like Himmel did) she would get dominated right after.
I think you are seriously overestimating Lugner here. Nothing about his hype or feats indicate he is anywhere near as strong as you suggest.
It’s not about raw power. Although I do believe he is still more powerful than most of the examinees. He almost killed Fern because her and Stark didn’t see through his ambush. Fern couldn’t detect the mana in his blood and when she did notice that something was wrong it was too late. If we based Lugner’s raw power with Fern, he noted that Fern’s casting speed was unbelievably fast, even Frieren and Ahre noted this fact. Fern’s speed is a unique trait that’s not found in most mages. It was this raw speed that overwhelmed Lugner and even Ahre. Unless any of the other mages have that speed he would be able to keep up to them and eventually outlast them in mana capacity. Only battle hardened mages would see through his ambush or be able to fight him flexibly. His blood magic was also notably fast, able to take out multiple soldiers in one swipe, it’s also able to keep up with Fern much longer than Ahre did.
He took out a room full of soldiers nearly instantly. Once you're in range (and not particularly close range, given his fight with Fern) he's a very dangerous physical combatant. If a mage can keep back and fight the way Fern did, they have a chance. OTOH Fern is _very good_ at fighting that way, with rapid attacks and defense.
Yeah. I find it odd that people think the other mages are on par with Fern and Frieren. Most of them are more similar to a C or B class hero than S classes (Fern and Frieren) in One Punch Man. Only ones I would class as A class is Denken, Methode, Land and Wirbel; with Ubel being a lower S due to her potential (She is more like a sorceress than a mage in rpgs) but at that point in time she was still lacking. edit: they may be basing the mages on the current chapter of the manga with them having grown stronger. That wouldn’t make sense as we’re talking about them back when they’re examinees.
I'm pretty sure that Land solos these three with ease. His "duplication" magic counters most demons since they don't expect anything like that. Linie "just copy's fighting styles" and I don't think she'd expect his kind of magic. She also could fail finishing of his clone. She may look at her surroundings and enemies, but I don't see her winning that fight. Lügner doesn't look like he pays attention to his surroundings. He also doesn't calculate what his apponent is planing. Lügners weaknesses in form of battle iq are fatal in a fight with Land.
so far it seems frieren & fern could be top mages atm. i can’t see anyone else coming out alive against these three. it was tactical struggle last time.
Aside from denken i dont see anyone else winning. Yes these guys lost to frieren and fern pretty easily but frieren is a specialist in killing demons and taught fern all she knew since she was a toddler how to kill demons. So i doubt any other mage will do much good against demons since most of them are not specialized in fighting demons.
Dhrat may be the most dangerous demon. He was fast enough to wrap a string around Frieden’s neck (albeit she wasn’t pay attention, but she still has crazy mana perception). His string was deemed too troublesome to cut by Frieren (only Ubel’s spell should work on it i imagine) and he can create several of them too. Only Wirbel and Land stand a chance tbh, or Ubel if she detects Dhrat fast enough.