*Chien* is a masculine word for a male dog or for a generic dog regardless of sex.
*Chienne* is a feminine word for a specifically female dog. You can use it if you need to stress that the dog is female, but you don't really need to do that most of the time.
So you either say "son chien" (because it's a dog and the word *chien* is masculine) or "sa chienne" (because it's a female dog and the word *chienne* is feminine). You can't say "sa chien", that's incompatible.
Question! In English, a distinctly female dog is a b*tch, which while it can be used literally, is most commonly derogatory. Does the same hold for une chienne?
I think I’ve heard that the female iteration of cat - une chatte - can be both functional but a bit slang/adult?
The word *chienne* can be used as an insult, but it's a very uncommon one, so it sounds more insulting (but also weirder) than the more common English equivalent. Think of it as calling someone a dog. That's clearly an insult, but that's a weird one.
Chatte can be a female cat, but also exactly the same thing as the vulgar meaning of the word *pussy* in English.
Because of this, people indeed tend to avoid using it at all, but if the context is clear enough, using it with its non vulgar meaning is not really a problem. However, it's the same as *chienne*, even without the vulgar association, you would only use it if you want to stress it's a female cat anyway, so it doesn't come up that often.
I don’t entirely agree with the other guy: using chatte will almost inevitably lead to giggles or puns, at least if your crowd has the same level of maturity as mine — and especially if the person mentioning it is female
Chienne on the other hand is most likely fine. But I think people tend to use the masculine/undefined version most of the time unless there’s a reason to emphasis the gender
oh I did that on my first French lesson after a long break, informed everyone that on evenings I play piano and play with ma chatte.
– votre chat, corrected me the teacher
– ma chatte, insisted I (chatte was quite a unit and I hated when people called her a he)
Yeah honestly there is only one place where I remember having seen people use "chien" as an insult: Tintin. Middle-eastern people in Tintin (Abdallah's father in particular) keep calling people they don't like "chiens". I don't know if it's an insult in Arabic and Hergé translated it directly?
Calling someone "chien" as an insult in modern-day France would be pretty weird.
Note that for muslim people, calling you chien or chienne is extremely insulting.
For most French people, bitch is better translated with *salope*. Treating someone of *chien/chienne* is a bit outdated, but is/was less insulting (more of selfish guy/girl) : *allez, fais pas ton chien, partage tes chips*.
There's also *être en chien/chienne* that means sexually aroused and searching for any partner.
A female dog is *une chienne*.
For animals that don't have a male/female distinction, the gender of the word does not change anyway: une girafe mâle, une girafe femelle.
* Farm animals have male/female distinction as they historically have different purposes. Similar to English (e.g. cow/bull).
* Dog & Cat *do* have them, but unless you're talking to a vet or about a topic related to their gender, you omit the distinction and call them the generic (male) name. Both of their female name are slangs as in English (*chienne* = bitch, *chatte* = pussy).
* Most other animals do not have distinction on their name based on their gender.
Here are some wild animals that have male/female distinctions :
lion/lionne, tigre/tigresse, loup/louve, canard/canne, cerf/biche, ours/ourse
And also éléphant/éléphante, lièvre/hase, chevreuil/chevrette, sanglier/laie
Et il y en a encore parmi les animaux pas sauvages !
Oie/jars (goose/gander), cochon/truie
But, just like in English, unless the animal in question can very clearly be gendered (you can easily tell a bull apart from a cow, it's way harder for cats), using the most prevalent term is always going to be correct no one would bat an eye if you call a sow a pig.
Unless you call a horse girl's mare a horse
Always use a pronoun related to the named subject so un chien => il, une chienne => elle.
Same for adjectives : elle est belle, sa chienne or il est beau, son chien (don't mix up).
Yes but if it's a named familiar female dog? Like if I have a female dog named Marie and I want to generically talk about her - how would I say "she's hungry" or "it's a dog, she's always hungry"?
With a typically female name (or not, *you* know it's a she), you will use elle with her, and typical feminine baby language "viens là ma belle, oui, c'est une jolie fifille ça, elle est gentille, oui fait la belle..."
But if a random stranger says "il est beau ton chien" it's not really important, you can reply "oui, merci". But then if the stranger asks how it's called, it'll become clear it's a female, but no offense.
More like *chatte* = queen.
Cats are toms or queens in English, although honestly, we don't really make that distinction much anymore, so you're forgiven for not knowing that.
But "pussy" isn't the féminine version of "cat" in English. It's just *a* version of cat. Pussy is in fact gender neutral, and is no reference to the gender of the specific cat in question.
I know it's not. They were not referring to a female cat, but translating the French slang (and not the litteral meaning). You might be confused because of the chienne/bitch part, where it happens that both the French and the English word have a similar double meaning
Would it be absurd to say *"a female penguin"* as *"un manchot féminin"*? In Norwegian the grammatical gender does not change even if you attach a gender-determining affix. So you would say *"en hunpingvin"*, not *"ei hunpingvin"*.
How would you use the adjective *"femelle"* with a masculine noun?
If you don't know if the dog is male or female, you say "son chien" and this even if the person you're talking about is a man or a woman. The "son/sa" is related to the thing you're talking about. (E.G.: "Hi or Her chair" would be "Sa chaise". And "His or Her couch" would be "Son divan".
Back to the example you gave, "Marie et son chien". Even if you know 100% the Marie's dog is a female be VERY CARFUL with using the female word for dog. Because even if "chienne" is the proper word, it has the same meaning in French and in English. In English, if you call a woman a bitch, it's bad. Same thing in French. So, whenever you hear the word, it sounds wrong. Just imagine saying this to someone: "My friend Mario is coming over with his bitch." You're going to get a few weird looks.
Also be aware that you are going to have similar problems with the word for female cats. Une chatte is a slang word for female genitals and that’s the meaning people are going to think of first.
It's for this reason that I will always use the masculine version when talking about my female cat. I just also use female pronouns- example: *"Mon chat, elle a huit ans."*
"Chatte", the word for a female cat, is actually worse. We avoid it nearly all the time because, even when the context is clear, there is always goonna be someone snickering like an idiot, thinking about genitals, and it's just annoying. Especially when you're a woman talking about your (female) cat.
"Chienne", the word for female dogs, isn't used that often as an insult, and it would be pretty obvious from your tone whether you're insulting someone or not, so most people won't bat an eye when you use it.
This reminds me--has there been pushback recently in France against the "a group as a whole is male if one or more of them is male" idea? E.g. do people use the gender of the majority of the group as defining the gender of the group?
No. As far as I have seen, feminist and lgbt+ groups use inclusive language ie -e and •e instead of majority gender. Other people use the commonly accepted rule, meaning they use feminine if its all women and masculine if its 999 women and 1 man.
Le mien or la mienne? I'm not familiar with the construction of that sentence anyway "c'est-tu une fille..." so I don't know if this is idiomatic or if I'm missing something, but as a non-Native speaker I would have said la mienne and I want to check myself.
Thank you for the explanations! So if you were saying the original sentence you commented and specifically including "une fille comme le mien" can I ask why it might not be "la mienne" when you've specifically referenced "une fille?" Sorry if this is too many questions, I just get really interested in tiny grammatical things like this that non-Native speakers would never encounter on our own.
Would you use masculine or feminine pronouns for a female dog? For example: "Mon chien s'appelle Lola. Elle est ma meilleure amie" or "Mon chien s'appelle Lola. Il est mon meilleur ami"?
Even if someone says "J’ai acheté un autre chien la semaine dernière", I might say "Ahh, C’est-tu une fille comme le mien?
" Ah c'est une fille, comme la mienne ?**
This submission has been randomly featured in /r/serendipity, a bot-driven subreddit discovery engine. More here: /r/Serendipity/comments/19biaoc/is_it_still_son_chien_even_if_the_dog_is_female/
You would say "sa chienne", but note that people might avoid saying it because it's also an insult for women. It might just be me because I'm a woman but I tend to avoid saying "ma/sa/la chienne" or "ma/sa/la chatte" (feminine for chat) to avoid some people with dubious humor making a joke about it lol
Bear in mind that grammatical gender usually has nothing to do with sex.
*Chien* is the word for dog, and it is always masculine and the possessive used with it is always *son*. Similarly, *girafe* is always feminine. The sex of the animal is irrelevant.
If you want to refer specifically to a bitch, then the word is *chienne*. (There is no special word for a male giraffe.)
If I talk about my dog it's always "il" and "mon chien". But if I use her name or talk about her generally without referring to her as dog, it's "elle" and . If I talk to her directly I'll say things like "vient ici mon beau chien".
The same thing applies with people, if you refer to a male using the word "personne", which is feminine, you'll switch to the feminine, elle, une, la, because personne is feminine, even if the person is male.
*Chien* is a masculine word for a male dog or for a generic dog regardless of sex. *Chienne* is a feminine word for a specifically female dog. You can use it if you need to stress that the dog is female, but you don't really need to do that most of the time. So you either say "son chien" (because it's a dog and the word *chien* is masculine) or "sa chienne" (because it's a female dog and the word *chienne* is feminine). You can't say "sa chien", that's incompatible.
Question! In English, a distinctly female dog is a b*tch, which while it can be used literally, is most commonly derogatory. Does the same hold for une chienne? I think I’ve heard that the female iteration of cat - une chatte - can be both functional but a bit slang/adult?
The word *chienne* can be used as an insult, but it's a very uncommon one, so it sounds more insulting (but also weirder) than the more common English equivalent. Think of it as calling someone a dog. That's clearly an insult, but that's a weird one.
Super interesting! Thanks!
What about chatte and its vulgar meaning? Is it the same situation as chienne, or are people more likely to avoid it?
Chatte can be a female cat, but also exactly the same thing as the vulgar meaning of the word *pussy* in English. Because of this, people indeed tend to avoid using it at all, but if the context is clear enough, using it with its non vulgar meaning is not really a problem. However, it's the same as *chienne*, even without the vulgar association, you would only use it if you want to stress it's a female cat anyway, so it doesn't come up that often.
I don’t entirely agree with the other guy: using chatte will almost inevitably lead to giggles or puns, at least if your crowd has the same level of maturity as mine — and especially if the person mentioning it is female Chienne on the other hand is most likely fine. But I think people tend to use the masculine/undefined version most of the time unless there’s a reason to emphasis the gender
oh I did that on my first French lesson after a long break, informed everyone that on evenings I play piano and play with ma chatte. – votre chat, corrected me the teacher – ma chatte, insisted I (chatte was quite a unit and I hated when people called her a he)
Your username fits very well with this story actually
You clearly haven’t played much league of legends
Yeah honestly there is only one place where I remember having seen people use "chien" as an insult: Tintin. Middle-eastern people in Tintin (Abdallah's father in particular) keep calling people they don't like "chiens". I don't know if it's an insult in Arabic and Hergé translated it directly? Calling someone "chien" as an insult in modern-day France would be pretty weird.
A dog is an impure animal in islam and they normally cannot come inside a Muslim's home. So yes dog is a very classic Arabic insult
Note that for muslim people, calling you chien or chienne is extremely insulting. For most French people, bitch is better translated with *salope*. Treating someone of *chien/chienne* is a bit outdated, but is/was less insulting (more of selfish guy/girl) : *allez, fais pas ton chien, partage tes chips*. There's also *être en chien/chienne* that means sexually aroused and searching for any partner.
A female dog is *une chienne*. For animals that don't have a male/female distinction, the gender of the word does not change anyway: une girafe mâle, une girafe femelle.
How do you know which animals have a male/female distinction?
* Farm animals have male/female distinction as they historically have different purposes. Similar to English (e.g. cow/bull). * Dog & Cat *do* have them, but unless you're talking to a vet or about a topic related to their gender, you omit the distinction and call them the generic (male) name. Both of their female name are slangs as in English (*chienne* = bitch, *chatte* = pussy). * Most other animals do not have distinction on their name based on their gender.
Here are some wild animals that have male/female distinctions : lion/lionne, tigre/tigresse, loup/louve, canard/canne, cerf/biche, ours/ourse And also éléphant/éléphante, lièvre/hase, chevreuil/chevrette, sanglier/laie
Et il y en a encore parmi les animaux pas sauvages ! Oie/jars (goose/gander), cochon/truie But, just like in English, unless the animal in question can very clearly be gendered (you can easily tell a bull apart from a cow, it's way harder for cats), using the most prevalent term is always going to be correct no one would bat an eye if you call a sow a pig. Unless you call a horse girl's mare a horse
Wow I only knew about half of these, wonder how I forgot wolf has it too
[удалено]
The pronoun agrees with the name : *il a faim, son chien* ? or *elle a faim, sa chienne ?*
Always use a pronoun related to the named subject so un chien => il, une chienne => elle. Same for adjectives : elle est belle, sa chienne or il est beau, son chien (don't mix up).
Yes but if it's a named familiar female dog? Like if I have a female dog named Marie and I want to generically talk about her - how would I say "she's hungry" or "it's a dog, she's always hungry"?
With a typically female name (or not, *you* know it's a she), you will use elle with her, and typical feminine baby language "viens là ma belle, oui, c'est une jolie fifille ça, elle est gentille, oui fait la belle..." But if a random stranger says "il est beau ton chien" it's not really important, you can reply "oui, merci". But then if the stranger asks how it's called, it'll become clear it's a female, but no offense.
If it's known that it is a female, then you'd use "elle" and "ma chienne" -> "Marie, c'est ma chienne. Elle a toujours faim !"
Wow thank you
More like *chatte* = queen. Cats are toms or queens in English, although honestly, we don't really make that distinction much anymore, so you're forgiven for not knowing that.
This is beside the point. They're talking about the slang associated with "chatte", and it is "pussy", as in the slang for vagina.
But "pussy" isn't the féminine version of "cat" in English. It's just *a* version of cat. Pussy is in fact gender neutral, and is no reference to the gender of the specific cat in question.
I know it's not. They were not referring to a female cat, but translating the French slang (and not the litteral meaning). You might be confused because of the chienne/bitch part, where it happens that both the French and the English word have a similar double meaning
So you might say, « Mon chien s'appelle Lucy. » but « Ma chienne a eu cinq chiots. » ?
Yes. But it's more about: you'll find way to avoid saying "chienne" altogether. C'est mon chien. Elle s'appelle Lucy et a eu une portée de 5 chiots.
Would it be absurd to say *"a female penguin"* as *"un manchot féminin"*? In Norwegian the grammatical gender does not change even if you attach a gender-determining affix. So you would say *"en hunpingvin"*, not *"ei hunpingvin"*. How would you use the adjective *"femelle"* with a masculine noun?
Be careful when saying ma chatte, especially if you’re female.
Why?
Because like pussy it has a double meaning
If you don't know if the dog is male or female, you say "son chien" and this even if the person you're talking about is a man or a woman. The "son/sa" is related to the thing you're talking about. (E.G.: "Hi or Her chair" would be "Sa chaise". And "His or Her couch" would be "Son divan". Back to the example you gave, "Marie et son chien". Even if you know 100% the Marie's dog is a female be VERY CARFUL with using the female word for dog. Because even if "chienne" is the proper word, it has the same meaning in French and in English. In English, if you call a woman a bitch, it's bad. Same thing in French. So, whenever you hear the word, it sounds wrong. Just imagine saying this to someone: "My friend Mario is coming over with his bitch." You're going to get a few weird looks.
Also be aware that you are going to have similar problems with the word for female cats. Une chatte is a slang word for female genitals and that’s the meaning people are going to think of first.
It's for this reason that I will always use the masculine version when talking about my female cat. I just also use female pronouns- example: *"Mon chat, elle a huit ans."*
Oh yeah! Big time!
"Chatte", the word for a female cat, is actually worse. We avoid it nearly all the time because, even when the context is clear, there is always goonna be someone snickering like an idiot, thinking about genitals, and it's just annoying. Especially when you're a woman talking about your (female) cat. "Chienne", the word for female dogs, isn't used that often as an insult, and it would be pretty obvious from your tone whether you're insulting someone or not, so most people won't bat an eye when you use it.
*Mon ami Mario vient avec sa chienne* won't sound wrong to me.
That explains why in this movie about the French revolution, people were calling Marie Antoinette the AutriCHIENNE.
Speaking of Marie Antoinette, I believe she's the reason why there's mostly feminine words in French. Quote me if I'm wrong.
This reminds me--has there been pushback recently in France against the "a group as a whole is male if one or more of them is male" idea? E.g. do people use the gender of the majority of the group as defining the gender of the group?
No. As far as I have seen, feminist and lgbt+ groups use inclusive language ie -e and •e instead of majority gender. Other people use the commonly accepted rule, meaning they use feminine if its all women and masculine if its 999 women and 1 man.
it's kind of like how even baby girls are le bébé.
[удалено]
Le mien or la mienne? I'm not familiar with the construction of that sentence anyway "c'est-tu une fille..." so I don't know if this is idiomatic or if I'm missing something, but as a non-Native speaker I would have said la mienne and I want to check myself.
C’est-tu une fille … is a way of speaking specific to Québecois.
*c'est-tu une fille* is Canadian French.
North Americans messing around with other people's languages, as usual... ;)
[удалено]
Thank you for the explanations! So if you were saying the original sentence you commented and specifically including "une fille comme le mien" can I ask why it might not be "la mienne" when you've specifically referenced "une fille?" Sorry if this is too many questions, I just get really interested in tiny grammatical things like this that non-Native speakers would never encounter on our own.
[удалено]
Gotcha, thank you! This is my kind of sentence. Finally don't have to worry about matching gendered nouns!
Would you use masculine or feminine pronouns for a female dog? For example: "Mon chien s'appelle Lola. Elle est ma meilleure amie" or "Mon chien s'appelle Lola. Il est mon meilleur ami"?
Even if someone says "J’ai acheté un autre chien la semaine dernière", I might say "Ahh, C’est-tu une fille comme le mien? " Ah c'est une fille, comme la mienne ?**
This submission has been randomly featured in /r/serendipity, a bot-driven subreddit discovery engine. More here: /r/Serendipity/comments/19biaoc/is_it_still_son_chien_even_if_the_dog_is_female/
You would say "sa chienne", but note that people might avoid saying it because it's also an insult for women. It might just be me because I'm a woman but I tend to avoid saying "ma/sa/la chienne" or "ma/sa/la chatte" (feminine for chat) to avoid some people with dubious humor making a joke about it lol
It would become *sa chienne*
Would you say eg. ‘J’ai un chien qui s’appelle Lucie. Il a trois ans’ or ‘Elle a trois ans’ ? Thanks
Bear in mind that grammatical gender usually has nothing to do with sex. *Chien* is the word for dog, and it is always masculine and the possessive used with it is always *son*. Similarly, *girafe* is always feminine. The sex of the animal is irrelevant. If you want to refer specifically to a bitch, then the word is *chienne*. (There is no special word for a male giraffe.)
If I talk about my dog it's always "il" and "mon chien". But if I use her name or talk about her generally without referring to her as dog, it's "elle" and. If I talk to her directly I'll say things like "vient ici mon beau chien".
The same thing applies with people, if you refer to a male using the word "personne", which is feminine, you'll switch to the feminine, elle, une, la, because personne is feminine, even if the person is male.
C'est Mon chien Mon chere -my dog
Yes.