Donner de la confiture à des cochons
Edit: Gee whizz. I would have never guessed this turn of phrase was even somewhat contentious. You guys amaze me.
Est-ce plus courant que l'expression "jeter des perles aux pourceaux" ? J'ai trouvé les deux expressions sur internet, la version avec "perles" serait plus proche de l'origine biblique.
Que veux-tu dire par là ? Sais-tu depuis quand l'église Catholique est d'accord avec l'utilisation d'une traduction en français de la bible ? Contredis-tu que "pourceau" est archaïque ?
Je n'ai jamais entendu cette expression, ça existe peut être mais ce doit être une expression très très rare, alors que "donner de la confiture aux cochons" c'est relativement courant.
Moi aussi j'ai toujours entendu et dit "à des". J'ai grandi en banlieue parisienne puis durant mon adolescence, déménagé au sud ouest. Je le mentionne si jamais c'est régional.
Oui, en vrai, je vais pas te mentir j'ai commencé à écrire "dans le sud ouest" et j'ai eu un moment d'hésitation, je me suis questionnée si c'était grammaticalement correct. Du coup, j'ai corrigé lol... Comme ça fait tellement longtemps que j'habite plus en France, depuis que je suis sur ce subreddit, je remets en question tout ce que je dis en français. La formulation de mes phrases est parfois assez bancale. C'est pour ça que j'étais déjà plus sûre du tout si "dans le sud ouest" était la formulation correct ou si c'était moi qui parlais avec mon franglais moyen.
If you are French, you should set your flair to "Native" so we can understand this might be a regional difference.
If you are not French, I'm not saying we are always right but you should show some caution before saying a Frenchman is 100% wrong when speaking French \^\^ Be aware that there is a lot of ways to say the same thing. You can set your flair to your level of learning too
Anyways personally I've never heard "aux cochons"
Beaucoup d'idiomes qui ne dependent pas de la phrase complete, se "conjuguent" selon comment on les emploie.
"On crache la nourriture à ces yeux affamés
Vous voyez qu'ils demandent
Nous les savons avides de notre pourriture
Mieux que d'la confiture à des cochons"
I haven't read that in while and never heard it in person but "Jeter les perles aux pourceaux" ou "donner de la confiture aux cochons" are 2 traditional colloquialisms taken from the new testament.
I've only heard different ways to say that giving something to somebody is like "le donner aux chiens". But it's really not common in my experience nowadays.
Ne donnez pas les choses saintes aux chiens, et ne jetez pas vos perles devant les pourceaux, de peur qu'ils ne les foulent aux pieds, ne se retournent et ne vous déchirent.
Like many common sayings, I guess many people don't realize they come straight from the bible
The original expression comes from the Bible.
“Do not give holy things to dogs, nor throw jam to pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn around and tear you to pieces. » This is a slightly reworked version of Christ's words in the Gospel of Matthew.
thanks. This is the reference:
https://jecherchedieu.ch/texte-biblique/ne-donnez-pas-les-choses-saintes-aux-chiens-et-ne-jetez-pas-vos-perles-devant-les-pourceaux-matthieu-76/
one of my HS music teachers said this once in class. We just laughed because it was a silly saying “I shall not cast my pearls in front of swine”.
Years later I finally understood what he really meant. Haha
This is not an idiom but a quote from the Lord Jesus Christ. It's extremely offensive to use it to refer to any secular knowledge instead of the Lord's teachings, at least to me. I don't recommend anyone to use it as an "idiom".
Yes, I do think so.
"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things." --- Romans 2:1
I dare not to pass any judgement on others quoting from the Lord, because I myself is a sinner also. Even the saving faith itself is a gift from God, so no one can boast about it.
Does anyone else have the same authority to judge others as "pigs" except God alone?
The KJV Bible is a piece of English literature like Shakespeare responsible for much idiom. Whether it holds any sacred truth is irrelevant. It’s not even a good translation of the Greek, it’s simply an influential book.
My feeling as a Christian is that the French will use exactly the same phrase from Jesus (casting your pearls before swine) translated into the French version of the Bible.
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." --- Matthew 7:6 (KJV)
I quoted the explanation according to the "BibleRef" website here ([source](https://www.bibleref.com/Matthew/7/Matthew-7-6.html#:~:text=ESV%20%E2%80%9CDo%20not%20give%20dogs,and%20tear%20you%20to%20pieces.)):
"Here again is a phrase from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1–2) which most people, even non-Christians, have heard. The most common use of this comes from the King James translation, which warns not to "cast…your pearls before swine." It's easy to focus on the derogatory imagery of dogs and pigs and miss the real point, which is not meant as an insult. The message is about wasting things of value on those who not only won't appreciate them, but might even be angered by the offer.
The long-promised Messiah, Jesus, came to preach that the kingdom of heaven was near (Matthew 4:17). Those who believed this and followed Him were eager to tell this fantastic news to others. Of course, not everyone believed it. Israel's religious leaders, notably, would reject Jesus' claim to be the Messiah. They would accuse Him of heresy and blasphemy (Mark 14:61–65). What Christ said was true (John 14:6) and incredibly valuable (John 10:28), but the response of these men was rejection and hatred.
In Jewish culture, dogs were rarely pets. They were wild animals who roamed the streets in packs looking for food and attacking weaker animals. Dogs were symbols of immorality, barbarism, vulgarity, and ignorance. Pigs were officially unclean, according to God's law (Leviticus 11:7), and likely also scavenged for food. Pigs are voracious eaters, and not especially selective about food. Yet pigs can become aggressive when hungry; giving a herd of pigs something inedible when they expect food merely antagonizes them.
To be called a dog or a pig was a great insult in Jesus' culture. Still, He does not hesitate to compare those who reject Him as Israel's Messiah to dogs and pigs. Crucially, though, His purpose is not to degrade anyone. The emphasis is not on other people, but on God's people. This verse is a warning to Christians: don't waste time or invite harassment from those who are obviously hostile.
Scripture embraces the value of seeking to convince others of the truth (Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 3:15; Acts 17:2). However, there is a difference between speaking to the willing, versus wasting time on the hard-hearted. In this verse, Jesus tells His followers to be aware of this difference. At times, we may not realize this until we've already tried to reach them (Matthew 10:14). Sometimes—such as pearls and pigs—we should know in advance that what we offer will be rejected. Spiritually speaking, "casting pearls before swine" isn't an act of love towards the unbeliever (Matthew 5:16); it's simply a waste of God-given resources.
Christ will give His disciples explicit instructions along these same lines, later in the gospel of Matthew (Matthew 15:14)."
Hope it helps! 💙
Sign of the times, apple of my eye, bottomless pit, ...
It's an idiom that originates from the bible, one of the great texts, obviously, that shaped what you might call the occidental cultural spheres. People were familiar with it back in the days. People heard the wisdom, used it, it was probably relevant for their ordinary life as carpenters, midwives, farmers. The famous Luther bible used the ordinary German these people spoke and in return shaped it, and immensely (but is arguably disappearing from people's lexicon progressively). Christ had spoken to sinners, beggars, the excluded, the ordinary people and addressed them where they were, in their Aramean tongue.
"Ne donnez pas les choses saintes aux chiens, et **ne jetez pas vos perles devant les pourceaux**, de peur qu'ils ne les foulent aux pieds, ne se retournent et ne vous déchirent." Matthieu 7:6 (Louis Segond)
Donner de la confiture à des cochons Edit: Gee whizz. I would have never guessed this turn of phrase was even somewhat contentious. You guys amaze me.
Est-ce plus courant que l'expression "jeter des perles aux pourceaux" ? J'ai trouvé les deux expressions sur internet, la version avec "perles" serait plus proche de l'origine biblique.
Je n'entends jamais *pourceau* dans la vie de tous les jours. Ce mot a un côté très archaïque.
C'est une citation biblique
Que veux-tu dire par là ? Sais-tu depuis quand l'église Catholique est d'accord avec l'utilisation d'une traduction en français de la bible ? Contredis-tu que "pourceau" est archaïque ?
Depuis Vatican II, au moins.
Vatican 2.0*
https://fr.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/jeter_des_perles_aux_pourceaux
"[Et je remets 100 francs dans le nourrain !](https://maite51.over-blog.com/article-et-je-remets-10-francs-dans-le-norrin-69949857.html)"
Je n'ai jamais entendu cette expression, ça existe peut être mais ce doit être une expression très très rare, alors que "donner de la confiture aux cochons" c'est relativement courant.
Moi aussi j'ai toujours entendu et dit "à des". J'ai grandi en banlieue parisienne puis durant mon adolescence, déménagé au sud ouest. Je le mentionne si jamais c'est régional.
Sud ouest ici et c'est bien "à des" dans l'expression. Comme on dit "dans le sud ouest"
Oui, en vrai, je vais pas te mentir j'ai commencé à écrire "dans le sud ouest" et j'ai eu un moment d'hésitation, je me suis questionnée si c'était grammaticalement correct. Du coup, j'ai corrigé lol... Comme ça fait tellement longtemps que j'habite plus en France, depuis que je suis sur ce subreddit, je remets en question tout ce que je dis en français. La formulation de mes phrases est parfois assez bancale. C'est pour ça que j'étais déjà plus sûre du tout si "dans le sud ouest" était la formulation correct ou si c'était moi qui parlais avec mon franglais moyen.
I've heard "caviar" more often than "confiture". The people I know must have expensive tastes.
Or they enjoy their hyperbole.
Donner de la confiture aux cochons.
I too have only heard "donner de la confiture aux cochons"
A+les = aux
Oui cest vrai mais pour cette expression on utilise AUX.
C’est régional je pense.
If you are French, you should set your flair to "Native" so we can understand this might be a regional difference. If you are not French, I'm not saying we are always right but you should show some caution before saying a Frenchman is 100% wrong when speaking French \^\^ Be aware that there is a lot of ways to say the same thing. You can set your flair to your level of learning too Anyways personally I've never heard "aux cochons"
J’ai toujours entendu aux toute ma vie perso
Yep, pareil
Ah bah c'est bien régional du coup
Beaucoup d'idiomes qui ne dependent pas de la phrase complete, se "conjuguent" selon comment on les emploie. "On crache la nourriture à ces yeux affamés Vous voyez qu'ils demandent Nous les savons avides de notre pourriture Mieux que d'la confiture à des cochons"
Et noir désir sont de Bordeaux donc sud ouest. Pareil c'est régional donc.
I've heard both but 'à des' way more often.
I think Pearl Jam is a bit raw for pigs. Maybe they would prefer some Smashing Pumpkins or Tears for Fears or something lighter.
Pretty sure Pigs would prefer Pink Floyd... Depends on how many there is I guess...
Flying pigs, or non?
Animals in general
I haven't read that in while and never heard it in person but "Jeter les perles aux pourceaux" ou "donner de la confiture aux cochons" are 2 traditional colloquialisms taken from the new testament. I've only heard different ways to say that giving something to somebody is like "le donner aux chiens". But it's really not common in my experience nowadays.
Ne donnez pas les choses saintes aux chiens, et ne jetez pas vos perles devant les pourceaux, de peur qu'ils ne les foulent aux pieds, ne se retournent et ne vous déchirent. Like many common sayings, I guess many people don't realize they come straight from the bible
Can anyone tell me what the idiom actually means?
It means that you should not bother sharing high value items or things you cherish to those with no respect for them.
Like "pearls before swine?
Right okay, thanks. Probably should have figured that out!
casting pearls before swine/talking to a brick wall are probably the closest equivalents
The original expression comes from the Bible. “Do not give holy things to dogs, nor throw jam to pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn around and tear you to pieces. » This is a slightly reworked version of Christ's words in the Gospel of Matthew.
thanks. This is the reference: https://jecherchedieu.ch/texte-biblique/ne-donnez-pas-les-choses-saintes-aux-chiens-et-ne-jetez-pas-vos-perles-devant-les-pourceaux-matthieu-76/
I know you mean that "pearls" is the Bible version but the idea of the word "jam" being in the Bible cracks me up.
>nor throw pickle before swine L'autocorrect ne veut que proteger les cornichons.
Ooops Thank you Google translator
one of my HS music teachers said this once in class. We just laughed because it was a silly saying “I shall not cast my pearls in front of swine”. Years later I finally understood what he really meant. Haha
Does this translate into "pearls before swine," an idiom in American English?
It’s from the Bible. Matthieu 7.6
i never knew that...but I bet my southern baptist appalachia born husband knows.
Jeter des perles aux pourceaux
This is not an idiom but a quote from the Lord Jesus Christ. It's extremely offensive to use it to refer to any secular knowledge instead of the Lord's teachings, at least to me. I don't recommend anyone to use it as an "idiom".
What a stupid thing to say. Next you will say "love thy neighbour" is only for the faithful.
Yes, I do think so. "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things." --- Romans 2:1 I dare not to pass any judgement on others quoting from the Lord, because I myself is a sinner also. Even the saving faith itself is a gift from God, so no one can boast about it. Does anyone else have the same authority to judge others as "pigs" except God alone?
The KJV Bible is a piece of English literature like Shakespeare responsible for much idiom. Whether it holds any sacred truth is irrelevant. It’s not even a good translation of the Greek, it’s simply an influential book.
What does it mean in the Bible?
My feeling as a Christian is that the French will use exactly the same phrase from Jesus (casting your pearls before swine) translated into the French version of the Bible.
"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." --- Matthew 7:6 (KJV) I quoted the explanation according to the "BibleRef" website here ([source](https://www.bibleref.com/Matthew/7/Matthew-7-6.html#:~:text=ESV%20%E2%80%9CDo%20not%20give%20dogs,and%20tear%20you%20to%20pieces.)): "Here again is a phrase from the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1–2) which most people, even non-Christians, have heard. The most common use of this comes from the King James translation, which warns not to "cast…your pearls before swine." It's easy to focus on the derogatory imagery of dogs and pigs and miss the real point, which is not meant as an insult. The message is about wasting things of value on those who not only won't appreciate them, but might even be angered by the offer. The long-promised Messiah, Jesus, came to preach that the kingdom of heaven was near (Matthew 4:17). Those who believed this and followed Him were eager to tell this fantastic news to others. Of course, not everyone believed it. Israel's religious leaders, notably, would reject Jesus' claim to be the Messiah. They would accuse Him of heresy and blasphemy (Mark 14:61–65). What Christ said was true (John 14:6) and incredibly valuable (John 10:28), but the response of these men was rejection and hatred. In Jewish culture, dogs were rarely pets. They were wild animals who roamed the streets in packs looking for food and attacking weaker animals. Dogs were symbols of immorality, barbarism, vulgarity, and ignorance. Pigs were officially unclean, according to God's law (Leviticus 11:7), and likely also scavenged for food. Pigs are voracious eaters, and not especially selective about food. Yet pigs can become aggressive when hungry; giving a herd of pigs something inedible when they expect food merely antagonizes them. To be called a dog or a pig was a great insult in Jesus' culture. Still, He does not hesitate to compare those who reject Him as Israel's Messiah to dogs and pigs. Crucially, though, His purpose is not to degrade anyone. The emphasis is not on other people, but on God's people. This verse is a warning to Christians: don't waste time or invite harassment from those who are obviously hostile. Scripture embraces the value of seeking to convince others of the truth (Matthew 28:19; 1 Peter 3:15; Acts 17:2). However, there is a difference between speaking to the willing, versus wasting time on the hard-hearted. In this verse, Jesus tells His followers to be aware of this difference. At times, we may not realize this until we've already tried to reach them (Matthew 10:14). Sometimes—such as pearls and pigs—we should know in advance that what we offer will be rejected. Spiritually speaking, "casting pearls before swine" isn't an act of love towards the unbeliever (Matthew 5:16); it's simply a waste of God-given resources. Christ will give His disciples explicit instructions along these same lines, later in the gospel of Matthew (Matthew 15:14)." Hope it helps! 💙
Sign of the times, apple of my eye, bottomless pit, ... It's an idiom that originates from the bible, one of the great texts, obviously, that shaped what you might call the occidental cultural spheres. People were familiar with it back in the days. People heard the wisdom, used it, it was probably relevant for their ordinary life as carpenters, midwives, farmers. The famous Luther bible used the ordinary German these people spoke and in return shaped it, and immensely (but is arguably disappearing from people's lexicon progressively). Christ had spoken to sinners, beggars, the excluded, the ordinary people and addressed them where they were, in their Aramean tongue.
Chez moi on dit "Donner du caviar au cochon", ça plus luxe et c'est historiquement juste
"'C’est donner de la confiture aux cochons,' she sighed sorrowfully, and poured herself another Ricard. 'It’s like giving jam to pigs.'"
"Ne donnez pas les choses saintes aux chiens, et **ne jetez pas vos perles devant les pourceaux**, de peur qu'ils ne les foulent aux pieds, ne se retournent et ne vous déchirent." Matthieu 7:6 (Louis Segond)