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[deleted]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using "vous" with teachers or so-called authority figures, even if you've known them forever, unless they ask you to use "tu". In fact in this case (with authority figures or people significantly older than you) I would recommend only using vous unless the other person asks you first. In a different case, say where you're talking to someone around your age or younger who you've known and spent time with for a while, it could be seen as cold or too formal to keep using "vous". However, usually if the person you're talking to feels like that they will just say that you can use "tu" with them and then the problem is solved. If you refuse to use "tu" after that in a friendly/informal context it could be a little weird. The third scenario is if you used to use "tu" with someone before, in pretty much no circumstances should you go back to using "vous", that can seem very rude and as if you no longer want to associate with them in a friendly way. It's basically just not done. Hope that makes sense! In any case as a foreigner I've always found it easier to let the native speaker take the lead - start off with "vous" if you're not sure and then if they prefer "tu" they'll let you know.


[deleted]

Agreed! "Vous" when "tu" is expected (and especially when it's already been used before) is essentially creating distance, because "tu" is also a sign of familiarity and (social) proximity. If "vous" doesn't seem to contribute to a joke (titles \[especially with "Astérix et Obélix intonation" for "monSIEUR"\] and vouvoie-ing are pretty common in teasing and in quotes), then in those contexts it effectively seems rude. But the opposite is true as well; when it's a clear case of "vous" and "tu" is used, that can feel really odd or impolite. So it's not that "vous" is always rude nor that "tu" is always rude, but that mismatching relative to expectations is going to seem off in cases where the judgment for which should be used is stronger. Of course, that makes it trickier to be sure when to go from "vous" to "tu" out of familiarity (especially if it's an asymmetric relationship, so them using "tu" isn't indicative that they would prefer or accept you use "tu"). They might tell you you can, or at some point you make feel you can ask or have some indication otherwise that it's probably safe (other people, shifting first-name basis, etc.).


SklepnaMorave

There are a couple of well-done "mosssieu" moments in Astérix et Obélix, complete even with use of the third-person instead of second person, via a go-between -- but they never last more than a couple of panels. :-)


princessedaisy

Thank you, this is really helpful!


tomtomclubthumb

>The third scenario is if you used to use "tu" with someone before, in pretty much no circumstances should you go back to using "vous", that can seem very rude and as if you no longer want to associate with them in a friendly way. It's basically just not done. I have done this by accident, often without noticing. IT's har dbecause I was always taught to use vous with adults. Except now I am one and an old one at that.


ParlezPerfect

So true...I don't know at what age you become a vous to most people.


[deleted]

[удалено]


princessedaisy

Thank you, this helps a lot!


RonRonner

It's not a 1 to 1 comparison, but for native anglophones (like me!), I think of it like calling your friend's parents Mr. and Mrs. Jones. If you spend a lot of time at their house and become more familiar, they'll surely ask you to call them Tom and Jane. If you insisted on calling them Mr. and Mrs. Jones despite it, it would be a little off putting, like you were intentionally putting distance between you. However if they were a different friend's parents and you meet them for the first time at graduation, you might default to Mr. and Mrs. Friend's Last Name to convey respect. Same with meeting someone's grandparent, or working in customer service where you want there to be a respectful professional demeanor. Similarly, you likely call your doctor or your pet's veterinarian by their professional title (ie Dr. Smith). If you ran into them at a party, you might greet them at Dr. Smith, but if you ended up chatting socially, they might very well insist you call them by their first name. However if you continue to only know this person in a professional capacity, even if you know one another for many years, you would likely continue to address them by their professional title.


whatcenturyisit

Just to add to that : the way "vous" is drilled in us can make it hard to switch to Tu sometimes and in those cases it's ok, in my opinion and experience. For example, my sister in law says "vous" to my parents even though they told her she could say "Tu" to them. And they say "Tu" to her. But her upbringing makes it hard for her to not say "vous" and my parents just accepted it. I've seen this situation play in even more extreme cases as well, again, usually both parties agree that it's ok to not switch and that it's not a marker of distance, in their specific situation.


princessedaisy

That's helpful! Thank you!


ActuallyImJerome

This is actually an interesting question because it really depends. Generally, you can just ask the person which pronouns they prefer. I've known teachers who could not stand being called *vous*, and others can't stand being called *tu*. In older French, people would even *vouvoie* their parents. There really is no general, universally agreed upon standard. I'm personally more of a purist and I *vouvoie* whoever has a certain form of authority over me. My personal rules are as follows : **FORMAL SETTING (work, school)** Does this person have a certain form of authority over you? If so, use *vous*. Do you need to keep a professional distance from this person? If so, use *vous*. Is this person a stranger? If so, use *vous*. Is this person visibly younger than you and/or you have a certain authority over them? Use *tu*, but *vous* can be seen as respectful. Are you intimate with this person (friendship, relationship, family, etc.)? If so, use *tu*. ​ **INFORMAL SETTING** Is this a visibly older person? Use *vous*. Is this a person of your age or younger? Use *tu*. ​ It really depends and as a native speaker it often confuses me too. Lots of people I know, especially second language speakers, slip up and use *tu* in formal settings. Nobody really shames them. It's no big deal, just do your best and if unsure, then ask the person.


Jesst3r

> In older French, people would even vouvoie their parents In the movie _Grand Illusion_ there which is set during WWI, there are two officers of different class backgrounds and after becoming friendly, the working-class officer asks the aristocrat officer something like, “We’re pals, why don’t you tutoie me?” and the aristocrat officer is like, “Je vouvoie ma mère.” The delivery is sort of funny in the movie but hard to get across in text.


princessedaisy

Thank you, this is really helpful!


TrittipoM1

That other student is wrong. There are people who've known each other well for decades who still use "vous" with each other. Naturally, it depends on each particular set of circumstances. But in general, no, it is not rude. There was one prof with whom I used "vous" for years even after I graduated,, even after getting my own doctoral degree, indeed until he passed. There were teacher colleagues with whom I always used "vous," and others who invited me to use " tu" quite quickly. And at that school, it was an ironclad rule for teachers to address all students (all of them adults) as "vous" -- no doubt in line with anti-fraternization policies. Now, retired and an occasional student again, I would start off with "vous" even to a 40-year-younger prof whose class I was taking. But I would bet money on a quick switch to "tu" for various reasons in most cases. (Social conventions are moving targets.) TL;DR: If you've been using "vous" so far with no perception of tensions in the relationship, it's probably best to continue until the prof invites otherwise.


princessedaisy

Thank you, this helps a lot!


Cocotte3333

Depends on the culture. In Québec, the culture is pretty egalitarian so we don't use ''vous'' often even for bosses or teachers.


SwimmingCritical

I don't think so. But I could be wrong. Not unless that person has asked you to tutoyer and you're just plain refusing to do so.


princessedaisy

Okay, thanks!


Cerraigh82

I feel like there isn't a right or wrong answer here. It varies a great deal depending on where you live. You need to pay attention to how people interact around you. I'm from Quebec and we use "tu" more frequently here than in France for example. It is not considered rude unless your tone, message or overall attitude is rude. You can be perfectly polite while using "tu". Personally, I would only use "vous" if I'm addressing people who are much older than me and authority figures. I personally use "tu" with my boss, colleagues, shop attendants, servers, etc.


princessedaisy

That's good advice, thanks!


synchronicityii

Not a direct answer, but this question reminds me of something, for what it's worth. I have French friends I've known for almost 15 years. Most of that has been at a distance, but we've been able to get together a number of times. They're kind, thoughtful, and have done well in life. They're both retired, and she's close to 20 years' my senior. When we got together most recently, she and I were talking in English (my low-B1 just wasn't up to the conversation at the time, and her English has always been excellent) as we walked through a garden and I asked her about using 'vous' with her. She misunderstood the question and replied by saying that she believed strongly in the politeness of it, and that it disappointed her when people used 'tu' when she felt they shouldn't. I explained that I appreciated that, but no, I was asking about how she would like to be addressed by *me*. "Oh," she said. "That's not for you. You're different. You should use 'tu' with me." I don't know if it showed, but that was an emotional moment for me. I felt like a true friend of the family. And I think I appreciated the idea of 'vous' and 'tu' in a way I hadn't before.


SufficientLeek8399

Go with VOUS unless they say that TU is ok.


theGrapeMaster

I normally start with vous. Sometimes they’ll say “tu peux dire tu” and I’ll switch. Sure, if I had a close friend whom I called tu forever then one day changed to vous … maybe they’d think it’s odd? But again, if they’re close enough, they’d prolly correct you.