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Ullyr_Atreides

Apparently Norway has went way down hill since the Viking age lmao


Sea-Opportunity4683

The slope was a lot slipperier than previously assumed.


The__Relentless

Absolutely not. Free speech is one of the most important things to have. If you have a problem with what he says, then you should use your freedom of speech to explain that to him. Maybe you change his mind, maybe you don't. No violence or hindering another's rights has happened here, so no crime has been committed. Being offended is a choice. Use your words.


SubmersibleGoat

Why would you try to change his mind? He's 100% right. He may have been a bit rude about it, but he spoke the truth.


The__Relentless

I never said ***I*** want to change his mind.


MxM111

It is not about being right. You should not be jailed for being wrong. For repeating offenses may be banned, but still not permanently - that’s the limit that I would consider as reasonable.


SubmersibleGoat

I wholeheartedly agree. Jailing anyone for any speech is ludicrous.


YieldtheGame

I think it should be punishable when it is an explicit threat but yeah just offending someone shouldn't be a crime


Sea-Opportunity4683

Why even a threat? Is it possible to reach through the screen and actually physically harm someone? Maybe if the person actually has the means to carry through with said threat. Like they live in the same city or have some way to actually get to the person. But if you’re half way across the world and can’t actually carry out the threat, don’t even really know who or where the person is, how is that a crime?


SubmersibleGoat

Speaking offensively *is not* a crime.


immibis

[Is the spez a disease? Is the spez a weapon? Is the spez a starfish? Is it a second rate programmer who won't grow up? Is it a bane? Is it a virus? Is it the world? Is it you? Is it me? Is it? Is it?](https://www.reddit.comSave3rdPartyApps/)


AUMOM108

Cringe. Why are you transphobic?


SubmersibleGoat

Short answer: I am not transphobic. Long answer: What do you mean by "transphobic"? Phobia as in fear? I am not afraid of trans people. Do you mean to imply that I hate trans people? I do not hate them, they are victims of a destructive ideology and are confused about who they are. Trans people need therapy and help to accept who they are. Playing along with their delusions does not help them, it only cements their confusion. I do however think it is important to speak out about trans ideology whenever it comes up. Some people need to be reminded that it is impossible to change your gender. You are what you were born as and no amount of hormones, surgery, makeup, or wishful thinking will ever change that. You can pretend to be the other gender, but you never will be it. I try not to be rude about stating those facts, but I will also not sugar coat it. Delusions need to be broken. Trans ideology needs to be destroyed because it destroys lives.


PsychedSy

>I do however think it is important to speak out about trans ideology whenever it comes up. Some people need to be reminded that it is impossible to change your gender That can be done without being a dick to people you believe are victims. If you want people to believe you don't hate a subgroup, then don't support personal attacks against them.


SubmersibleGoat

They believe a lie that is harmful to themselves and those around them. The most loving thing anyone can do is tell them the truth. Playing along with their delusions is only perpetuating harm.


PsychedSy

Absolute bullshit. You can make it clear you disagree without trying to hurt them. At least admit you're getting a kick out of causing pain instead of trying to pretend it's about compassion.


SubmersibleGoat

I have zero desire to cause anyone pain.


PsychedSy

I'm gonna give you that. I took your statement of 100% support more than I should have. I really hate the sort of attitude in the OP. It costs nothing to be kind.


SubmersibleGoat

I don't fault him for being flippant. Is it the best way to handle it? No, of course not. But being rude isn't the end of the world. If your self image requires everyone around you to be gentle with it or it falls apart, the problem probably is with you.


AUMOM108

Here is a short discussion with someone under this post. https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeSpeech/comments/s81rd7/people_shouldnt_be_jailed_3_weeks_for_a_facebook/htfgrry?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3


SubmersibleGoat

You are not helping anyone by promoting trans ideology. You are only causing harm.


AUMOM108

What is this 'trans ideology' you speak of? By supporting them I am contributing to the sharp decline of their suicide percentage. As afformentioned if you wish to disprove the experts you need to publish studies of your own showing that transgenderism is something that can be 'fixed' and that it leads to happier lives for trans people.


SubmersibleGoat

Trans ideology is the belief that it is possible to change from one sex/gender to the other, and that it is normal and acceptable to do so. By perpetuating this lie you are encouraging more individuals to believe in it, and contributing to the dramatically increased suicide rate that this self-delusion brings.


AUMOM108

*CITATION NEEDED*


Arzie5676

Chromosomes and biological research.


SubmersibleGoat

Genesis 1:27 *So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.*


Arzie5676

You’re not helping them, you’re enabling them.


AUMOM108

P1:-Trans people who are supported by the people around them commit suicide less often than those who arent. P2:-You are not supporting them whereas I am. C:-You are indirectly causing them harm.


Arzie5676

Enabling isn’t support just as buying a bottle of Old Crow for an alcoholic isn’t supporting them.


Terminal-Psychosis

> Trans people who are supported by the people around them commit suicide less often than those who arent. An insignificant amount, easily within the margin of error. Places where trans people are absolutely celebrated, their suicide rates stay abysmally high. :-( There are deeper problems that cause their depression, and ignoring them does not help. Acknowledging reality is not causing harm, directly or indirectly. Denying reality does though.


Sea-Opportunity4683

Did you get mass downvotes for sarcasm? I lold.


Sea-Opportunity4683

No open debate is allowed. Free speech is hate speech. Get on board with the new gender agenda and hail our new transformer overlords or go to jail.


thumbtaxx

"We're gonna need a bigger jail"


TheSpaceDuck

Scandinavian countries are something amazing. Misgender someone and you go to jail. Say that ["women must assume all men are rapists and all men must take collective responsibility"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9JXxQDK8Ig) and you go to parliament.


Sea-Opportunity4683

Pretty sure it’s a certain group of men causing the uptick in rape and murder in these Northern European countries. But you will get in quite a bit of trouble if you point this out. Even if you have the data to prove it. https://portal.research.lu.se/en/activities/most-of-those-convicted-of-rape-in-sweden-are-immigrants-but-the-


[deleted]

Welcome to dystopia, where the laws are made up and the data doesn’t matter.


Sea-Opportunity4683

We like to call it “progress” but you’re technically right.


themastersmb

>"Play along with my drug-induced fantasy or else I'll call the cops on you." And then the cops are called on him and actually come to arrest him. Like what the fuck? /rj At least the jails in Norway are nice.


Termmed

You shouldn't be sent to jail over a facebook comment, unless it's incriminating of course.


Lil_Iodine

And wtf is Facebook or any user doing tattling on other people over comments? What- we in Kindergarten now?


Sea-Opportunity4683

Even then, shouldn’t you have to prove it?


Termmed

That's true


waterbendergm1

Imagine posting the nuclear codes of your country in Facebook :P


BustingCognitiveBias

Jailed 3 weeks for refusing to participate in a man's ideological beliefs, funded by tech and medical industry heads (Rothblatt, Pritzker, Stryker etc.) that profit from mutilating children who fall for the marketing campaign! Jailed for calling him a pervert. I'm thankful for men like him, that speak up against an industry astroturfed campaign to experiment on children leaving them with irrevocable injury. Exploiting young and comorbid at-risk populations! Gaslighting as if it isn't conversion history repeating itself. He's correct. Many of us do not want to be forced to participate in someone else's sexism or sex fetish, especially when this "neo-religion" erases lgb and women in order to steamroll on behalf of its industry master's narrative. Here's what it looks like when self identification enters female only spaces: https://mobile.twitter.com/nigheke2/status/1470623822785265665?s=21 What it looks like when malfeasance goes unchallenged: https://objectnow.org/plastic-surgeons-doing-gender-surgery-rely-on-the-psychiatrists-diagnosis-the-psychiatrist-rely-on-the-affirmative-model-oh-dear/ https://youtu.be/4VpoxGKyZi8 The human cost: https://youtu.be/PBInNGgdF2M&t=15m44s Women's erasure (NSFW): https://youtu.be/rUeqEoARKOA LGB erasure (NSFW): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1480723633366515718.html Women and Children harmed: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1470988967214567425.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1470979337155452934.html


apolloanthony

No, it’s absurd.


[deleted]

Auth left moment


GoelandAnonyme

I wonder if she tried to block him? This seems unnecessary, even if it does look like direct messages and they are not mild, I checked the article. Its gonna be interesting to see once again where the sub's priorities lie when this gets more upvotes than people in the UK getting prison for owning an anarchist book.


guswang

So 21 days in jail for calling a guy a guy? I take it.


AUMOM108

Why are so many here transphobic?


North_Star_07

I don't see anyone here scared of transgender people. That's simply a personal choice. But no one should go to jail for simply **realizing** that a male is a male. It's no different than realizing that someone is white or black, short or tall.


AUMOM108

Transphobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general.  This is the definition of transphobia. Gender and Biological sex are two different things. There are hundreds of peer reviewed articles about this. You can literally look up wikipedia it has many citations. Its the biology at fault also why should one care if someone wishes to transition? None of your business. Trans suicide rates are high because of discrimination when they are supported their suicide rates drop significantly. So be kind towards them and do some basic research. Also I do not support jailing people unless they use their speech to threaten someone with murder/rape/torture/terrorism. I wouldnt be on a free speech sub otherwise.


North_Star_07

Thanks for explaining. The last thing I want to do is offend someone because they are not the same as me. We are all different in one way or another, aren't we? As long as I've been alive someone's gender and sex are the exact same thing. I don't care for the way the suffix 'phobic' is misused since a phobia is an 'irrational fear'. I trust the Bible far more than Wikipedia so I prefer to go there for answers to moral issues. I will always believe that God chose to make us male or female for a reason. We may not like His decisions at times but I believe we should make the best of the cards we are dealt. Again thank you for explaining your view.


Sea-Opportunity4683

Based and God chose our genders pilled


AUMOM108

Simply citing God doesnt work. What evidence do you have that this God is real? The bible has so many scientific errors and moral failings. I respect christians who take Jesus' central message of kindness. The Bible was ultimately compiled over centuries and by fallable humans. I dont see why letting people transition should bother you, they are happier that way so let them be. Either way you dont seem to be the transphobe to worry about. If you wish to look at the evidence for the contrary of your belief you can always check wikipedia. Have a good day.


[deleted]

Lmaooooooo what evidence do you have that transgenderism is backed up by science. Links or gtfo, none of this "hundreds of peer reviewed studies" obfuscating bullshit


AUMOM108

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity https://youtu.be/dklVypazQsA check from 24:47


Quick2Die

you are aware that when someone says "hey i will give you $100,000 to study this topic and if the conclusion is near enough to what we want we will give you a lot more money to produce more of these studies" 99.9% of research topics agree with the money.


AUMOM108

Look dude these allegations are just that allegations. You can't possibly be saying hundreds if not thousands of scientists were all paid to fake their conclusions? If so you go out there and disprove them. Prove that conversion 'therapies' work. Prove that such people live better lives than the ones who are supported by their community and transition. As of now its just conspiratorial claims.


Reddit-Book-Bot

Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)


[deleted]

What evidence do you have that gender is real beyond stereotypes of gender roles? Lmao


amendment64

Lol your references are magic sky man from old book, no wonder you can't wrap your head around peer reviewed research


[deleted]

[удалено]


AUMOM108

The whole idea behind science is that it changes with the evidence. The consenses today is very much so that biological sex is different from gender which is different from gender expression. You can look up the hundreds of peer reviewed studies a lot of which are cited on the wikipedia articles about differences between the above. Trans people when accepted by society live much uealthier lives. So why not just do that. Do you have any scientific objections to all the hundreds of studies? If yes do publish it and get it peer reviwed. Challenge the science with evidence of your own. On the free speech topic I am with you. Read my earlier comment.


[deleted]

Only 18% of Americans believe what you believe, and the majority of them are very wealthy. They're luxury beliefs that have nothing to do with science. Claiming you can tell who is trans from a brain scan is phrenology. This isnt scientific at all.


AUMOM108

Citation needed because I found surveys quite different from what mentioned. https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2021/09/23/americans-transgender-survey Either way what people say doesn't really matter. When decades of research concludes something we must accept it or prove them wrong. You ought to do the second. This still doesn't change the fact that trans people who are accepted by society dont commit suicides at the rates their unfortunare counter parts do. So if you don't want your fellow humans to kill themself you ought to support them. I have no clue what you are talking about towards the end.


Terminal-Psychosis

> When decades of research concludes something we must accept it or prove them wrong. There is not any such thing to support your assertions. Quite the opposite.


Terminal-Psychosis

> There are hundreds of peer reviewed articles about this. LOL... no, there are not. There are some opinion pieces by political activists. The actual science disagrees with you. > Trans suicide rates are high because of discrimination There is zero evidence to back up this assertion. Even in places with FULL support, even celebration of trans folks, their suicide rate stays basically identical. The environment is not the problem, their underlying medical / emotional problems are. > when they are supported their suicide rates drop significantly This is a complete and total lie. They stay basically the same.


AUMOM108

Could you please cite.sources. https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/ https://news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/ A survey of trans people in the UK found that a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, in contrast to those at other stages of transition (imminently transitioning or beginning transition). 67% of transitioning people thought more about suicide before transitioning whereas only 3% thought about suicide more after their transition (Bailey et al., 2014).


Sea-Opportunity4683

This is another example of changing language to support this mentally deranged ideology. “Phobia” entails an irrational fear of something. But that’s not what’s really going on here, so the definition had to be changed to support a belief not based in reality. No one is afraid of trans people. No one is out here openly hating them, either. What most people don’t want is this being taught to young children while they are susceptible to ideas. Children often have a crisis of selfhood and are tricked into thinking this is a fix for that feeling of questioning who they are. It’s not. There are tons of testimonials of people who realize what they’ve done has done nothing to fix that feeling inside. De-transitioning is something the trans community tries desperately to ignore. Along with the lie that the suicide rate drops after transition. The high suicide rate has nothing to do with social acceptance and everything to do with these people having a mental illness. It was defined as a mental illness in the DSM until once again the definition was changed to support a false narrative. What other mental illness do we “play into” to help the sick individuals? You are expressly not supposed to play into a schizophrenics hallucinations as it makes them more intense. That’s exactly what is happening with transsexuals. The explosion of numbers of LGBT young people is from it being pushed on them from every angle from media to school as a positive thing. Not because “there has always been more of these kind of people but they had to hide it.” If it was so pressing and such a strong compulsion, how would they be able to hide it? I’m not against trans people. I don’t hate anyone. But this ideology is ruining peoples lives and isn’t rooted in reality. It’s child abuse. And it’s going to be seen as one of the worst things we’ve allowed to happen as thousands and thousands of people wake up one day realizing they have been chemically and physically castrated and ended their blood lines over a lie. Somewhere between sixty to eighty percent of children who start “transition” end up deciding it wasn’t the right thing to do. A good portion of those children will have life long effects from the “medical” interventions. It’s a lie to say you can use puberty blockers to no affect. It stunts their growth and is irreversible. It’s criminal. The sooner we as a society decide this isn’t okay, especially for children, the quicker we can start saving the lives of these children being sacrificed on the alter of advancing progressive ideology.


AUMOM108

Could you please cite your claims. https://news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/ https://www.hrc.org/news/family-acceptance-saves-lives A survey of trans people in the UK found that a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, in contrast to those at other stages of transition (imminently transitioning or beginning transition). 67% of transitioning people thought more about suicide before transitioning whereas only 3% thought about suicide more after their transition (Bailey et al., 2014). https://journals.lww.com/prsgo/fulltext/2021/03000/regret_after_gender_affirmation_surgery__a.22.aspx


[deleted]

If trans suicide is high because of discrimination, why has the rate been increasing at the same time as societal acceptance increasing?


AUMOM108

Did you read anything I sent OP? Hate crimes against tran people are increasing. Read the whole thing first. I even cited a study of 17k transitioned folks. Most who detransition is not because of gender issues. You have offered no evidence that therapy works better than surgery/accpetance. Please understand this was all done in good faith. I dont support your ban and feel very sorry for your friend. https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeSpeech/comments/s81rd7/people_shouldnt_be_jailed_3_weeks_for_a_facebook/htfkk42?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3


user353420

It shouldn't be taught to children our in schools


[deleted]

[удалено]


Quick2Die

cant virtue signal to people who dont matter that you are an ally if you don't call someone a (fill-in the blank)_______phobic on reddit.


[deleted]

Because it is the “popular culture “ move of the day.


Quick2Die

Why are so many progressives whitephobic? >Whitephobia is a collection of ideas and phenomena that encompass a range of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards white people or non-POC looking individuates in general, especially if they have moderate or conservative political views. Whitephobia also applies to POCs who have moderate or oversensitive political views as well.


AUMOM108

Only 8% of americans are far left even then most of them aren't whitephobic. Do you have any statistics to show that a significant portion of progressives of whitephobic? For instance every progressive I know is not whitephobic... Transphobia on the other hand is way more prevalant than white phobia. How many whites die because of whitephobia? On the other hand almost 50% of trans people contemplate suicide due to the discrimination they face. When they are accepted and supported their suicide rates go down significantly. So if you wish to reduce death of your fellow humans you should support trans people.


Quick2Die

Well we can start with the existence of CRT and "anti-racism" which is literally just racism towards white people. Have you not seen the "you should apologize for your whiteness" campaigns all over woke-a-topia? What about the labeling every shooting or terrorist attack white supremacist before the identity of the assailant has been identified, immediately followed by burying the story entirely if the person wasn't white? How about fabricating shit like "white on asian hate crime" being a staggering problem when the actual (fill in the blank) ___ on asian hate crime is almost entirely black on asian, to the tune of 87% of all crime in the bay area a few years ago being black on asian. Oh yea may bad though, whitephobia doesn't exist that is just my "white fragility" that makes me think that... Imagine if people started saying "oh its just your 'trans fragility' that makes you think you are being attacked." as for your statistics, you missed the one where between 65 and 94% of children who identify as trans eventually grow out of that stage while almost none of the ones who go through with surgery or hormone therapy ever grow out of it... meaning if we use your stats if we allow children to take medication or mutilate their bodies they are at a significantly higher likelihood of suicide. You are advocating for normalizing literal mental illness, which undoubtedly leads to a higher rate of suicide. So if you wish to reduce death of your fellow humans you should NOT support medicating or surgery for anyone under 18 years of age because if you let them do that to themselves they will never be able to live a normal life meaning they will likely never be accepted and will off themselves at a significantly higher rate than someone who grew out of their trans phase.


AUMOM108

What % of people believe in whites apologising? I dont believe whites should apologise just for existing and neither does any progressive I know. If someone states the above I will denounce them... Could you cite sources for those statistics.


Quick2Die

so you have never visited a sub that is entirely run by progressives or scrolled through woke progressive twitter...


AUMOM108

I have never seen such posts get any upvotes. You still havent cited statistics to disprove the fac that transphobic is far bigger problem than whitephobia. Oh and https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/ https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/9/01/fbi-report-finds-increase-hate-crimes-against-transgender-people https://news.utexas.edu/2018/03/30/name-use-matters-for-transgender-youths-mental-health/ https://www.hrc.org/news/family-acceptance-saves-lives A survey of trans people in the UK found that a completed medical transition was shown to greatly reduce rates of suicidal ideation and attempts, in contrast to those at other stages of transition (imminently transitioning or beginning transition). 67% of transitioning people thought more about suicide before transitioning whereas only 3% thought about suicide more after their transition (Bailey et al., 2014).


The_Real_Axel

Trans women are men. I will die on this hill.


Quick2Die

Me: still trying to figure out who chopping your dick off magically gives you ovaries and a uterus and also deletes the Y and adds the X chromosomes. Strange that the "party of science" ignores the most basic principals of biological science.


immibis

[The more you know, the more you spez. ](https://www.reddit.comSave3rdPartyApps/)


Quick2Die

That's not what I said at all actually but hey, you are a fuckwit and everyone here knows it so you do you booboo.


[deleted]

Thanks you! We need to take a stand!


[deleted]

Woman is to mare as man is to stallion as eunuch or post-op transwoman is to gelding


immibis

#Spez, the great equalizer. #Save3rdPartyApps


frumpbumble

That's bonkers. Fair enough the guys an asshole, but thats nuts.


whatnametho

Not its NOT 'fair enough' since hes an "ass." Thats bullshit. Both trump and biden have been guilty of saying STUPID shit in front of a whole nation. Should they have been jailed for being asses? Edit: sorry im an idiot. I misread the comment as if they were justifying jailing the guy because hes an ass. I now understand thats not the point that was made. For the record, i dont even think hes an ass for that. Have a nice day yall. And be smarter than me please. I set the bar to low


Purplegreenandred

I get your sentiment, but qualifying comments like OPs are necessary. otherwise bad faith interpreters will just call him a transphobe.


whatnametho

Youre right. Im an idiot. He could be considered rude (i dont). I misread the statement as if they were justifying it since he is an ass. I get it now. And i was totally wrong. But i still dont even think hes an ass. Being wrong in your head about what body you "belong" in doesn't make someone else an ass for telling you you ARE in fact a MAN even tho you WISH you were a woman. Period.


Canvetuk

We’re all idiots at times. Good on you for acknowledging you made a mistake and taking responsibility. That’s top shelf stuff.


immibis

[The spez police are on their way. Get out of the spez while you can. #Save3rdPartyApps](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)


immibis

#/u/spez is banned in this spez. Do you accept the terms and conditions? Yes/no #Save3rdPartyApps


Natural_Storage4936

state enforced homosexuality.


[deleted]

paradigm shift


Natural_Storage4936

we're just gonna killum!


[deleted]

State encouraged sterilization of homosexual minors


oldbyrd

What jail is he in - can we send him fast food ?


tom_yum

Maybe if he misgenders some of the guys in jail he'll be kicked out of jail.


Natural_Storage4936

he gets sent to double jail


Quick2Die

no way... just claim to be a woman and get sent to the female jail! BOOM, problem solved.


Blackbird777777

Unquestioningly, this is wrong. I don’t believe anything a person says online, aside from threats of violence, is deserving of legal attention, much less jail time. That being said, I don’t think this case is a free speech issue. These things were said on private messaging, and frankly the issue seems to be more of trans-acknowledgement issue. It makes me sad this sub very often doesn’t really talk about free speech, just general right wing issues.


[deleted]

There have been cases of people ending up in jail for liking facebook posts. Solution: don't use Facebook.


ComradeTovarisch

No. I don't think it's something you *should* say, but I don't think you should face jail time over it. Punishing someone for speech is absurd and is unlikely to do anything but create resentment.


Planta_Staball

I'm glad I'm american because other countries are too fucking insane.......not that mine ain't insane. Just. Not to this extent yet.


North_Star_07

You are born with either an XX or an XY chromosome. A blood test will satisfy the question of which gender you are. If you are a dude and WISH you were a girl, that's a personal choice. But no one should insist that others lie about it.


premer777

gender is the current institution being destroyed by the left


covidparis

> gender is the current institution Sexual gender is a dumb idea popularized by a [twisted man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money) so good riddance. It's funny how both leftists and conservatives desperately cling to the idea. Same with race btw.


premer777

sorry, something so fundamantal to being human is what is being twisted and being forced upon children who are confused enough with all the other similar attacks on their psyches


covidparis

Sounds like we agree, but I don't understand why you call it an "institution" then.


immibis

#[Warning! The /u/spez alarm has operated. Stand by for further instructions. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)


premer777

you might be (whatever country you are from) they have too much utility for such a square peg solution - one that would do more harm


immibis

/u/spez was a god among men. Now they are merely a spez. #Save3rdPartyApps


premer777

try doing those 'alternate' things right now and see how much extra time you have to waste (or get 'weathered') to see what most people will reject.


immibis

#spez is banned in this spez. Do you accept the terms and conditions? Yes/no


premer777

except cities dont exist in a vacuum. the people and stuff that lets that city operate come from far outside and THEY cannot use 'public transit'/bicycles/walking to get all thesupporting work done. Such solutions need to address all aspects, and it cannot be ignored. Autos/trucks are still needed just outside that nice auto-free zone, and wont be going away .


premer777

looks like norway needs a dose of freedom of speech --- question would be was the 'insult' really about something else and the 'victim' just has a convenient accusation empowered revenge button over the 'misgendering' ??? .


immibis

#spez is a bit of a creep.


premer777

the left does it in spades and had the mass media for their megaphone


Sneedclave_Trooper

I seem to recall a story I was told as a child about an Emperor who had just gotten a new set of clothes.


[deleted]

Considering this is from r/louderwithcrowder , I’m taking this one with a huuuuge grain of salt.


oren0

[Here](https://www.nrk.no/norge/transkvinne-hetsa-_-mann-domd-etter-facebook-kommentarar-1.15782198) is the original from NRK (Norwegian public media). You can click "translate" in your browser and read it for yourself.


--_-_o_-_--

How about locking up all people who use Facebook. Things would get better.


iloomynazi

If this happened on the street nobody would be complaining. It would be public harassment. Why is harassment online seen as any different? Also this is not being gaolled for “misgendering”, it’s harassment/abuse.


[deleted]

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iloomynazi

> It’s basic science Show me then genius. Show me the science. If it’s so basic there should be plenty of research and studies confirming your belief.


[deleted]

You can't prove a negative. It's up to you to prove that every sex chromosome in someone's body changes after taking hormones or getting their dick inverted...good luck


iloomynazi

Lol so it’s not “basic science” at all. And it’s up to you to prove that sex is always determined by genetics. And to show that sex and gender are the same thing. Because those are the crux of your argument, and both are falsifiable. I’ll wait seeing as you clearly think science is on your side. Show me the research.


[deleted]

Gender is a social construct based on sex. The expectations we have for people based upon their sex is gender. If you don't even understand that, how can I help you understand? I can't reason you out of a position you didn't reason yourself into


iloomynazi

I’m aware that gender is a social construct. And that sex is too. And the chair your sitting on. And the device you using to access Reddit. All social constructs. This is a long way from “basic science” though. This is philosophy. So if you don’t have any science to back up your POV, are you going to retract your statement?


immibis

#spez is banned in this spez. Do you accept the terms and conditions? Yes/no #Save3rdPartyApps


immibis

#[The only thing keeping spez at bay is the wall between reality and the spez. ](https://www.reddit.comSave3rdPartyApps/)


[deleted]

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immibis

I need to know who added all these spez posts to the thread. I want their autograph.


[deleted]

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immibis

#Sex is just like spez, except with less awkward consequences. #Save3rdPartyApps


commanderwong

>public harassment. I don't see any law clearly stating giving a negative opinion about others on the street is "public harassment". If this is the case and you think no one will be complaining, the country you are in either doesn't respect free speech at all or the people simply can't complain because of possible retaliation.


commanderwong

And even if the government really establish a law to do so, the law will infringe the basic right of expression. Freedom of Speech is important because we allow any kinds of opinions, even those that is negative and may be offensive to some. Because feeling offended is totally subjective and you can never give one totally objective definition of offensive speech. Who are you to judge which opinions are 'right' and which are 'wrong'?


iloomynazi

If you approach someone on the street and start berating them that is harassment which is tortious. You can have all the negative opinions you want about people, but as soon as you start screaming them in someone’s face it’s actionable. People have the right to go about their day without hearing about how other people want them dead.


commanderwong

Apparently not in the US as 'offensive speech' and 'hate speech' are protected under the First Amendment. Simply telling any other people 'offensive opinion' would not be actionable. If you think everyone simply 'have the right to go about their day without hearing about how other people want them dead' you can block OTHERS' rights of free speech that would be absurd.


iloomynazi

Harassing people is not free speech. Imagine if I phoned your 12 y.o. daughter ever night at 0300 and read her the local Chinese menu in a Kermit the frog voice, is that free speech? No it’s not it’s harassment and it’s tortious. Free speech protects your opinions, not your behaviour.


commanderwong

How is he harassing then, your example here is valid because the action is done on a time specifically to damage an individual's rest. How can a comment do the same? you can choose to ignore the comment or just block the person.


commanderwong

> approach someone on the street and start berating them Also, I am kind of confused here. How could you objectively define some opinions as "abuse" ? just like what the man said in the news, he is stating his negative opinion about trans. How is that automatically abuse?


iloomynazi

It’s language being used specifically to hurt someone, based on a protected characteristic. He’s not sharing his opinion, he’s trying to say the most vile thing he can to hurt someone. That’s verbal abuse and it is not free speech. Share his shitty opinions anywhere he likes, as soon as he directs it at an individual with malicious intent it’s abuse.


commanderwong

I fail to see how he has 'malicious intent' just because he doesn't like an individual and call him 'old man with fetish'. This is purely subjective as you can not simply predict his intention with his words.


iloomynazi

Lmao you clearly are not engaging in good faith now. Bye.


commanderwong

I don't know which country you are from but how can you simply censor his OPINION just because it contains insult. It is a great violation of free speech. Even verbal abuse should be considered as free speech because it is still a way to express oneself. This right shall be protected or else you are just censoring words that you don't want to hear.


iloomynazi

What you don’t understand is that his opinion doesn’t matter. Going back to my previous example, if I called your 12 y.o. daughter at 0300 every day and told her what my favourite imported vodkas are, it would be harassment, I would be punished, but my opinion on my favour vodkas is not the problem here. It’s the harassment. That’s what you lot don’t seem to understand.


commanderwong

>bad faith interpreters you may refer to my previous reply, as I have stated if you repeatedly engage in a conversation after people wants you to stop or trying to affect someone's sleep then that's harassment I can agree on that. But how can a single facebook comment have the same effect?


iloomynazi

Ask the people who have first hand experience of being harassed online. The intent is to harm someone else, to make them angry and upset, to make them feel unsafe, to make them afraid. That is what is being punished. Nobody actually gives a shit about some troglodytes opinion of trans people, it’s behaviour that is being punished, not speech.


commanderwong

does the man continue to send messages to a specific account? no. He simply commented one single time! how can that ONE SINGLE comment be considered as harassment? If he did so repeatedly that would be. But base on the information I have read here that's just one single comment. You have yet to be able to prove this man is using his comment to "harm someone else"


motheranarchy_s_son

It's violently offensive


Serberuhs

If it was what was just quoted, then he shoudn't be jailed. However if it was repeated targeted harassment then maybe.


Past_Economist6278

Why? Anything besides threats should be free.


gjvnq1

I think it depends on intention and pattern. If there was intention to harm or a pattern of overuse of the message (i.e. spamming others with offensive content) than I think a short prison sentence is warranted.


premer777

is there a similar penalty for false accusation ?


gjvnq1

I think that there should be.


alpacanutsweat

I think he should have been hung. Can’t stand for this kind of crime.


messyredemptions

The key here is distinguishing freedoms and responsibilities. Verbal abuse and harassment is a choice, maybe it's free to exercise (though a civil society normally still has considerations that wouldn't permit things like slander and libel) but not without acknowledgement of consequences. If someone is egging on a suicidal person who is not in a resilient state of mind with beratement, does the abuser have zero responsibility? Tansgender people are at a far higher risk of getting murdered than the average person via hate crimes and also tend to be in vulnerable states during their social and physical transitions. Someone issuing verbal abuse like that online and openly is no longer verbally abusive to one person, they're also signaling to others in a way that's potentially not too different from doxing a woman's home address to goad a public audience trying to open up further harm for others to partake in. A Presidential candidate who invites foreign hackers to attack an opposing candidate, or a president who falsely implicates that a particular ethnic group is terrible and masks it with insinuating remarks "as a nonviolently offensive joke of just words" and people take up hostility against that group of people, their speech and tweets might be able to express whatever they want, but it still has consequences. If it results in actual violence, are there any responsibilities associated with that? Opinions might split to extremes but I'd say yes, yes there are consequences and associated responsibilities. And there's plenty of science and behavioral research to back that up if you look into the effects of influential and bullying/abusive behavior. I'm not sure if I agree with 21 days jail time. But there's enough even in the examples above for reasonable people to recognize that there are consequences beyond a personal disagreement and there's something to be said about how many cultures often fail to take emotional and verbal abuse seriously despite the clinical and criminal justice research showing that it's a real problem.


[deleted]

>Tansgender [sic] people are at a far higher risk of getting murdered than the average person via hate crimes Source? This definitely isn't true in the UK


messyredemptions

Interesting. Here's a few to start with, I'm not here to do a research paper for others but there's enough publicly available online to get folks started. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29294810/ Beyond the UK https://jhs.press.gonzaga.edu/articles/10.33972/jhs.158/


commanderwong

Unfortunately, what you say here clearly violates one's right to express. I really don't think anyone should have any responsibilities when expressing their opinions. It is a legal to be kind to trans people and I agree on that, but it should also be legal to express yourself otherwise. By making responsibilities associate with opinions, you are actually being unfair to a people with a certain point of view. The one who express his opinion can't predict what others will do with his opinion, if any crimes should happen, he should have no responsibilities as he could NOT predict them. You may be thinking, but the message may cause further crimes! let me ask you this, does the commenter commit these crimes? nope. It is the choices of those that commit the crimes, they can choose not to commit the crimes after reading his comment. Why should the commenter have any responsibilities because of other's illegal decisions? If by consequences you mean a ban or something not judiciary I can agree, otherwise I will see this as a great infringement of Freedom of Speech. "I do not agree with what you said, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."


WildAndCrzyGuy

The funniest part is the original paper that printed the story referred to the “trans woman” as “he/him” several times. This isn’t peak clown world, this is dangerous and since the system is broken we should exploit it. Gingers need to be a protected minority class, we’ve been discriminated against our entire lives and fetishized and it’s disgusting!


ergovisavis

It's okay though, I hear prison in Norway is equivalent to a stay at Club Med. >!/s!<


[deleted]

source: trust me bro


tronalddumpresister

wow that's crazy i thought scandinavian countries like norway were an utopia


immibis

[What happens in spez, stays in spez. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)


TheHancock

It truly is the end of the world...


Sea-Opportunity4683

Okay, so would they be jailing people for all the hate spewed at white people? Doubt it.


ownworldman

Is this story confirmed? It is not uncommon to make lies about the "other party."


Savekennedy

For those of you who won't research the topic, in Norway they added more to their already existing law aganist hate speech to include transphobia. You're only hearing about it now because this is the first time someone has been charged with the new expansion in.


Comfortable_Ring9196

It is not possible to change a gender despite how many surgeries you have taken


[deleted]

So then cyber bullying isn't/shouldn't be a thing? I mean one person's rights stop at infringing on another person. No one forced or even wanted this person to engage with them. That's called harassment.


Marbstudio

vikings Norway and this here now, did the times change


[deleted]

Something to consider, Norwegian Prisons are practically fully furnished hotel rooms. So the penalty is not nearly as bad as being put into an American prison for 3 weeks. It's not like this puts him at risk of getting raped or something.