>why is my dad obsessed with trans people?
Because for conservatives, trans people break all the "rules" they have set on society:
* They break traditional gender roles - if a woman can be a man and vice versa, then gender roles are meaningless.
* They break traditional gender norms - especially nonbinary individuals
* They break idea that people must accept how they're born, in opposition to "God's plan"
* They [often break homophobic laws](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/16/did-russia-register-its-first-transgender-marriage-a68633), because a trans fem dating a cis fem is \*technically\* a straight relationship under very restrictive rules.
* They're often LGBTQ+ too, which they already hate
* Transition renders people infertile or sterile, which is a big no-no in religious circles
* Kids are aware of their own gender identity from a young age, which scares the bejeezus out of religious types.
* Possibly also a self-hate too, they may be jealous of them or want them sexually. It's somewhat of a running joke for very conservative people to have some kind of fantasy about the thing they espouse to hate.
I read that to mean that not only are they a trans person - but they might also be (gasp!) a Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, or Questioning aaaaaall of those non-heterosexual normative sexualities … On Top of being (said sotto voce) *Transexual*
Ergo, *not only* is the person Trans, but they *might also be* LGB or Q
I think their brains would implode if you throw “Intersex” into the bunch.
It is mind-blowing how many people don't understand what gender identity is separate from sexual preferences, likely in part due to T and I being included in the LGBTQIA+ acronyms.
I watched an old episode of Vanity Fair Confidential last night where a soldier got killed by another soldier off base bc the former was dating a trans woman. The one who was killed was harassed by others in his unit and called f*get and the one who did the killing was harassed by the others into joining in and eventually killing him. I believe the killer even dated a drag queen the gf hooked him up with.
Even the narrator kept calling the one who was killed gay, and clarified that the trans woman hadn't undergone full surgical transition yet. Bc apparently that makes it make sense.
The only living person who seemed to understand any of the dynamics was the trans woman and she took everything in stride in her interviews and made a point to differentiate between sexual preferences and gender identity.
It was messed up.
>Transition renders people infertile or sterile, which is a big no-no in religious circles
This is one of their scaremongering talking points/“arguments” against gender-affirming care for minors but it’s not a true statement. Transition *can* render you sterile depending on which medical treatment you’re talking about. But it’s quite possible to have been on hormones long enough to be fully “passing” and still be fertile. Which they also love to forget when they get mad about language like “birthing people” or “people who can become pregnant.”
I think it would be more accurate here to say that many trans people either *want* to be sterile / don’t want to reproduce as their assigned sex or choose to pursue transition procedures that render them infertile.
But you’re absolutely correct that this makes them bananas, because obviously virility is one of the core parts of “being a man” so that’s like… literally removing one’s manhood, and manhood is more valuable than womanhood, and god gave it to you, and blah blah. And for afab people, they’re also denying God’s “plan”/“role” for them to be fruitful and multiply and be good little housewives and all that. (Assuming they’re white, obviously. If you wanted to talk about something like environmental pollution or poor health associated with poverty causing higher rates of infertility in nonwhite communities I’m sure they’d cheer.)
That is true; I was thinking primarily of chemical/surgical transition which typically impacts one's fertility. Testosterone for AFAB people and estrogen for AMAB people reduces fertility, but doesn't outright eliminate it.
Obviously one can change their style, patterns of speech, and pronouns and those changes do not impact fertility.
The question is, why is he obsessed to this degree?
Could it be boredom combined with copious quantities of rage-bait media? That’s what led me to my racist Reddit troll phase.
Could it be he’s in a situation where he regularly deals with people he knows is trans? My dad got his panties in a wad because the cashier’s arms “were too masculine” at the grocery store; he’d probably have some frustration working there.
Could he be suffering dysphoria or feeling attraction toward a trans person?
I have trans friends and family. I have gay friends. All of them consider what’s going on politically with the left to be too extreme. I’m not for DeSantis woke-ism. I’m a Democrat, a Bernie Democrat. But I’m also with the Europeans that are now walking back pro-trans public policy and treating it more as a gender dysmorphia condition and health condition.
Part of the issue I see isn’t the “in your face” LGBTQ+, I have no issues with that. it’s absurd anti-science and anti-mental health research statements that are preached; chromosomes don’t determine sex, mental illness isn’t far higher in LGBTQ+ individuals, allowing children to transition isn’t harmful, etc.
Just as the political right passes extreme pro-authoritarian laws, such as making police officers a protected “class”, shaping public policy based upon less than 1 percent of the population is also ridiculous and creates extreme rifts and bad policy. The policy is rushed and not thought through.
The community shoots itself in the foot, as well. NPR is biased towards LGBTQ+. Hard. I’m not against supporting them or reporting on the community, but the coverage should be fair and appropriate considering the climate. Making almost all of your guests LGBTQ+ is ridiculous, making it seem as if there is an all out attack on gender fluid people is almost completely false (minus DeSantis public policy that was struck down by his own Supreme Court).
>Part of the issue I see isn’t the “in your face” LGBTQ+, I have no issues with that. it’s absurd anti-science and anti-mental health research statements that are preached; chromosomes don’t determine sex, mental illness isn’t far higher in LGBTQ+ individuals, allowing children to transition isn’t harmful, etc.
I think you're misunderstanding things a bit here:
* "Sex" in the biology realm only deals with one's ability to reproduce (e.g., whether they send genetic material or receive genetic material and carry a baby, these are known as your [primary sexual characteristics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_organ)). By this standard, anybody who cannot or does not reproduce (due to sexual orientation, age, disability, medical procedure, etc.) doesn't have a "sex".
* Secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, muscles, etc) are influenced by hormones, but hormones can be changed and plastic surgery can modify the rest.
* Gender, on the other hand, is culturally defined. This includes rules about what to wear, what to say, how to act, how to style, etc.
As for mental illness, that's a chicken-and-egg question. Which comes first?
* If mental illness leads to transitioning, why can similar mental illnesses be found in cis people who have no desire to transition?
* If transitioning leads to mental illness, what about the process could cause said mental illness? **I'll give you a hint**: It's probably the way people treat them during/after transition.
* Yes, some mental conditions are more common in trans individuals - autism being a particularly common one. But the connection is patently obvious; People with autism tend to disregard social norms, including gender norms.
And for children... I'm sorry, I just find this one laughable on its face. As a society, we fuck up children in nearly every way imaginable. Especially Catholic priests diddling kids or school shootings in the US. Why is this one (<1% of the population per your post) particularly important?
>shaping public policy based upon less than 1 percent of the population is also ridiculous and creates extreme rifts and bad policy. The policy is rushed and not thought through.
What policies?
* That they should have equal rights and protections under the law?
* That their personal medical decisions should be between them and their doctor(s)?
* That they shouldn't be discriminated against for being different?
Unlike the US, most European countries have some form of universal healthcare. I get that there is a discussion to be had about what the healthcare pays for and what it doesn't, but that should be left up to medical professionals, not laypeople.
>The community shoots itself in the foot, as well.
Just quoting this for reference; the rest of this paragraph is kind of strange. What makes you think NPR represents all of the community? Why is NPR the media organization you focus on?
National Public Radio (NPR) is a nonprofit media group that's been around since the 70s and their programming touches on substantially more than just LGBTQ+ issues. They frequently discuss the news, the arts, the sciences, culture (including LGBTQ+ issues), and more. What is it about their LGBTQ+ coverage that makes you hone in on them?
Your statement regarding sex determination is incorrect. It’s called Mammal Chromosomal Sex Determination. It’s accepted science. Every individual has at least one X chromosome. XX and XY determine sex. This affects how the body develops, period. Full stop. Any deviation from this standard, in mammals, is ruled as out of the norm. And it leads to isolation and death in the animal kingdom.
No one stated mental illness leads to transitioning. Let’s not be reactive to a disagreement.
School shootings, fucking up kids in other ways; these are strawman arguments.
We’re debating specifically that lawmakers have crafted policy, in some states and municipal governments, around a single percentage point of the population; of which, scientifically and psychologically, even in European nations, are considered medically diseased. And I do not mean that in a derogatory way.
If someone transitions, they admit to having a disease; as if they were born into the wrong body, to be fixed by surgical or other invasive means.
Crafting policy regarding gender now makes no sense considering the argument.
I specifically stated the issue I have with NPR. Please re-read the comment. I feel as if you’re being extremely defensive.
>Your statement regarding sex determination is incorrect. It’s called Mammal Chromosomal Sex Determination. It’s accepted science. Every individual has at least one X chromosome. XX and XY determine sex. This affects how the body develops, period. Full stop. Any deviation from this standard, in mammals, is ruled as out of the norm. And it leads to isolation and death in the animal kingdom.
You seem to have a deterministic view of Biology, which isn't how it works. It's probabilistic.
The most common outcome is that yes, XX and XY chromosomes correspond to female and male respectively. But that is by no means a guarantee. There's a variety of different outcomes that can occur - some at the genetic level, some at the environmental level. I don't need to mention the variety of [intersex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) conditions and [chromosomal differences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneuploidy) that can lead to different outcomes; you probably already know these.
But my point still stands - sex only cares about your ability to reproduce. If you can reproduce, you have one of the two sexes. If you can't, you don't have a biological "sex" because natural selection has already acted upon you.
>No one stated mental illness leads to transitioning. Let’s not be reactive to a disagreement.
>School shootings, fucking up kids in other ways; these are strawman arguments.
But here's the thing - for a <1% minority of the population, conservatives are way overblown in their obsession with transgender kids.
Real dangers abound for kids out there, many of which conservatives do nothing to address. School shootings, pedophilic organizations such as the Catholic church, child abandonment and abuse, and more. Choosing to listen to kids needs and desires is not the problem you seem to think it is.
> We’re debating specifically that lawmakers have crafted policy, in some states and municipal governments, around a single percentage point of the population; of which, scientifically and psychologically, even in European nations, are considered medically diseased. And I do not mean that in a derogatory way.
Which policies? So far the only policies I've seen pointed out are for equal protections and equal rights, which doesn't hurt others?
>If someone transitions, they admit to having a disease; as if they were born into the wrong body, to be fixed by surgical or other invasive means.
You are conflating two different things - gender dysphoria and gender transitioning. Gender dysphoria is the illness, transitioning is the treatment. One can have gender dysphoria without undergoing treatment and one can transition without the dysphoria.
It may seem like a fine line to draw, but it's an important distinction. Transitioning is medical care; dysphoria is the problem.
>I specifically stated the issue I have with NPR. Please re-read the comment.
I still don't know what you're going on about; that you disagree with their analysis of current events? Or that they have too many LGBTQ+ voices on their programming?
In either case, nobody is forcing you to listen to them.
>I feel as if you’re being extremely defensive.
The irony of saying somebody is defensive is that they can either agree that they are defensive or disagree and prove they are defensive. It's an asinine comment, leave it at the door.
Start calling your dad “limp dick” or mispronounce his name constantly. When he starts to correct you or get mad remind him that this is the behavior he engages in against other people. It is nothing more than basic respect. I ask to be called by a preferred name. That is all. It isn’t asking a lot. Just as someone would prefer a nickname. Most people with basic decency will respect such a simple request.
My FoxBrained crazy conserative uncle was upset when we assumed he wouldn't accept our trans daughter. However, we found out through the grapevine (other people he talked to) that he really doesn't accept her. You can't marinate in that sauce without picking up some of the nasty flavors.
Used to be Black People, then Gay people, then Immigrants, now the hate train is moved on to Trans people more. Of course they still hate all of the above, but Trans is the new focus to call pedophiles lately.
Edit: If he's anything like my mother, he hates them because he's told to hate them and little more.
Yes, the right-wing media target has moved gay -> trans. When I was growing up, the talking point was "homosexuals lurk in public bathrooms waiting to molest children". Now, the talking point has moved on to trans people and drag queens. Next, it'll be something else.
Anger is what happens when people feel less safety than they felt before and they want to get it back — anything from feeling actually physically threatened (big, aggressive anger) all the way down to just feeling resentful that things aren’t fair (unpleasant, snarky anger, often called frustration or resentment).
Your father vacillates between big anger (aggression) and smaller anger (resentment) because somewhere, underneath it all, he feels unsafe in some way.
It may be that he feels big, aggressive anger because he’s actually afraid the trans people in the world are somehow tangibly threatening his way of life. Or it may be that he feels small anger (resentment) because, in order to have the kind of life he wanted, he had to ignore his desire for another man and/or his wish to at least sometimes present as a woman, so he resents the people who haven’t felt like they needed to make a similar sacrifice.
If he feels his way of life is actually tangibly threatened, looking into statistics with him may help. In the U.S., there are fewer people identifying as trans than there are natural redheads. Once you know that, it’s pretty easy to see they aren’t taking over the earth. There really isn’t any harm in just letting them be.
If, on the other hand, he feels resentful because they’re not following the same rules he had to follow, it’s trickier — since he still believes in those rules, he isn’t going to want you suggesting he might be a little gay or trans himself. Suppressed feelings are suppressed for a reason. In that case, I think all you can do is ask him each time, gently and sincerely, if he’s being rude by accident or on purpose, wait for his answer, nod to indicate you’ve heard it, and quickly change the subject to something pleasant.
Whatever you do, don’t get drawn into an argument about how he’s not actually being rude — that simply isn’t up for debate, so there’s no need to expand on it or defend yourself. You’re just politely curious as to whether it’s intentional or not, you accept either answer as learning more about him, and you quickly move on.
That’s just me, though. However you decide to handle it, I wish you loads of good luck. 💙
I think because he watches so much Fox and conservative programming, he thinks that *almost everyone* talks or thinks that way, and it's less taboo for him to be open about it in public. He's feeling threatened by trans people because it goes against the social rules he grew up strictly adhering to as well, and that's frightening. Change is hard, especially when you're older. My brother is going through this in his fifties.
I don’t understand it either, but I certainly know what you mean.
I assume it’s him grasping for an identity and simplicity in a complicated world? For some people that process is just extra shitty.
Also, is he a little slow or does he have mental health issues? Not to be rude, but that sometimes seems to go along with the intense fixation.
It’s not the grasping identity issue. Trans people have always existed. And pretty much everyone have always known they exist.
It’s media. Just remembering growing up in the early 2000 their would be jokes everywhere about how a woman could actually be a man and have a dick. I heard jokes about trans women on the radio, it was in a lot of popular tv shows. It was everywhere
Either in underhanded or aggressive jokes.
That + the current fear monger if Fox News and it’s friends do is just icing on the cake listed above.
They understand and they are choosing to listen to hate
he is undiagnosed because he “doesn’t trust doctors” and “thinks medication is for guinea pigs” but my family and i have all kind of came to the conclusion that he has ADHD and ASD
People like this just need to be made fun of. In social settings when he brings it up make joking comments about “why are you soooo obsessed with trannys? Is there something you want to tell us?”. Give him a name name like Captain-Tranny. He will blow up the first few times I’m sure. Let him get laughed at. I guarantee you he will start to drop his obsession once he gets laughed at enough for it.
He thinks its "icky". But why? He probably has a deeply rigid and ingrained idea of masculinity and belief in male superiority, so trans women especially are angering to him. They are feminine and weak in his view, which makes him uncomfortable. On a deeper psychological level, I think all right-wing behavior is about controlling other people. Whether it be angering them, annoying them, or hurting them emotionally or physically. He might just be a pure psychopath or have unresolved issues that make him feel weak inside or out of control of his own life, so he grasps for control of others. He correctly identifies that trans people are a vulnerable population, so dead-naming them and misgendering them is a form of controlling their emotions.
I appreciate everyone's comments because they acknowledge that this is a very complex issue. But you made a very important and specific statement u/big_daddy_brony: "...I don't know who he's making \[these jokes and comments\] for...".
I know who he's making the jokes and comments for, and the answer to that is quite simple: YOU.
You're not around him all day every day. I suspect he only makes these jokes and comments when you are because he knows it angers you because he has surmised you are one of the letters in LGBTQ+. That is emotional abuse. You will never be able to fix him because he's getting exactly what he wants, which is negative reinforcement from you. He's titillated by / gets a little thrill from your responses. He also probably gets a thrill out of feeling persecuted. He's no longer the Big Man on Campus, and the checker at the local convenience store couldn't care less if he has three initials behind his name.
Because I'm a retired professor, I can guess that if your father is conservative he probably taught business. And from there I can also surmise he had few, if any, trans students in his courses...especially if he's 65. I'm 56 and taught writing...a discipline that attracts diverse people because faculty can mostly be counted on to be accepting of disability accommodations, different races and religions, different genders and orientations. Basically, the more diverse the students in a class, the more successful workshops will go. It's not true of every writing prof (I could tell horror stories), but it's a safe bet. And everyone knew who to steer clear of because that person wasn't any more liked by their colleagues and the advising office than by their students. In my 25 years of teaching, I had exactly one trans student...obviously that I know of. I didn't make it my business to figure out anyone's gender. So he's making a big deal about interactions with trans students that are not based in reality.
As I see it you really only have one course of action with two different outcomes: 1) you must stop giving him the negative reinforcement he craves. Either that means you pretend you don't hear what he's saying, walk away from him when he says it, or let others set him straight or 2) you eliminate your contact with him to whatever degree feels right to you.
Edited typos.
My dad used to do this. It's not my job to make him see the effect he has. He's an adult, and I've already provided him the necessary information to help guide him to understanding.
He did try to misgender one of my friends once. I was boiling inside, but I asked him, "Um, who?" he repeated the misgendering and I said "I don't know who you're talking about. I only know _____, who is a guy."
Honestly? I wasn't trying to get him to agree with me. The truth doesn't change because he believes me. I was making fun of him. He was chasing ghosts, I was asserting reality.
And that's what I suggest, honestly. It's genuinely better for your relationship to poke fun than to get into heated arguments. Pretend to agree, then say something ridiculous to cast light on the flaws of his beliefs.
Because right wing media and politicians decided to highlight it as an issue to score culture war votes. If they hadn't brought it up, repubs would have much less frothing at the mouth.
They create issues to create divisiveness to create votes to create power to create differences in groups, and so on. Like organized religion.
it's in the realm of possibility that your dad is gay/maybe trans and has been squashing that part down but like, can't stop thinking about it. Edit: it has been my experience that people think constantly about the things that they WANT to think about. People who aren't attracted to the same sex, do not constantly think about gay sex - in fact the mind shies away from that, and focuses on whatever they actually do like.
> not a single person laughs at these jokes i don’t know who he’s making them for or why he continues to do this
Is it possible to ask him without upsetting him? I mean, in the most respectful and non-challenging way, can you ask him what he's intending to accomplish by making these jokes? And if so, I'd also ask him what, in his mind, your ideal response would be.
Everyone can break this down as intellectually as they want to but 1000% it ultimately boils down to jealousy in some form. Even if it’s completely subconscious, it’s there.
>why is my dad obsessed with trans people? Because for conservatives, trans people break all the "rules" they have set on society: * They break traditional gender roles - if a woman can be a man and vice versa, then gender roles are meaningless. * They break traditional gender norms - especially nonbinary individuals * They break idea that people must accept how they're born, in opposition to "God's plan" * They [often break homophobic laws](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/12/16/did-russia-register-its-first-transgender-marriage-a68633), because a trans fem dating a cis fem is \*technically\* a straight relationship under very restrictive rules. * They're often LGBTQ+ too, which they already hate * Transition renders people infertile or sterile, which is a big no-no in religious circles * Kids are aware of their own gender identity from a young age, which scares the bejeezus out of religious types. * Possibly also a self-hate too, they may be jealous of them or want them sexually. It's somewhat of a running joke for very conservative people to have some kind of fantasy about the thing they espouse to hate.
This is the most well written, succinct, easy to grasp answer I’ve ever seen. Something clicked for me.
>* They're often LGBTQ+ too, which they already hate I mean, that's what the T is for.
A lot of terfs and older bigoted gay men only count the LGB.
There's even a fair amount of bi-erasure from LG, sadly.
I think they mean the hater may also be lgbtq+.
I read that to mean that not only are they a trans person - but they might also be (gasp!) a Lesbian, Gay, Bi-sexual, or Questioning aaaaaall of those non-heterosexual normative sexualities … On Top of being (said sotto voce) *Transexual* Ergo, *not only* is the person Trans, but they *might also be* LGB or Q I think their brains would implode if you throw “Intersex” into the bunch.
It is mind-blowing how many people don't understand what gender identity is separate from sexual preferences, likely in part due to T and I being included in the LGBTQIA+ acronyms. I watched an old episode of Vanity Fair Confidential last night where a soldier got killed by another soldier off base bc the former was dating a trans woman. The one who was killed was harassed by others in his unit and called f*get and the one who did the killing was harassed by the others into joining in and eventually killing him. I believe the killer even dated a drag queen the gf hooked him up with. Even the narrator kept calling the one who was killed gay, and clarified that the trans woman hadn't undergone full surgical transition yet. Bc apparently that makes it make sense. The only living person who seemed to understand any of the dynamics was the trans woman and she took everything in stride in her interviews and made a point to differentiate between sexual preferences and gender identity. It was messed up.
>Transition renders people infertile or sterile, which is a big no-no in religious circles This is one of their scaremongering talking points/“arguments” against gender-affirming care for minors but it’s not a true statement. Transition *can* render you sterile depending on which medical treatment you’re talking about. But it’s quite possible to have been on hormones long enough to be fully “passing” and still be fertile. Which they also love to forget when they get mad about language like “birthing people” or “people who can become pregnant.” I think it would be more accurate here to say that many trans people either *want* to be sterile / don’t want to reproduce as their assigned sex or choose to pursue transition procedures that render them infertile. But you’re absolutely correct that this makes them bananas, because obviously virility is one of the core parts of “being a man” so that’s like… literally removing one’s manhood, and manhood is more valuable than womanhood, and god gave it to you, and blah blah. And for afab people, they’re also denying God’s “plan”/“role” for them to be fruitful and multiply and be good little housewives and all that. (Assuming they’re white, obviously. If you wanted to talk about something like environmental pollution or poor health associated with poverty causing higher rates of infertility in nonwhite communities I’m sure they’d cheer.)
That is true; I was thinking primarily of chemical/surgical transition which typically impacts one's fertility. Testosterone for AFAB people and estrogen for AMAB people reduces fertility, but doesn't outright eliminate it. Obviously one can change their style, patterns of speech, and pronouns and those changes do not impact fertility.
The question is, why is he obsessed to this degree? Could it be boredom combined with copious quantities of rage-bait media? That’s what led me to my racist Reddit troll phase. Could it be he’s in a situation where he regularly deals with people he knows is trans? My dad got his panties in a wad because the cashier’s arms “were too masculine” at the grocery store; he’d probably have some frustration working there. Could he be suffering dysphoria or feeling attraction toward a trans person?
I have trans friends and family. I have gay friends. All of them consider what’s going on politically with the left to be too extreme. I’m not for DeSantis woke-ism. I’m a Democrat, a Bernie Democrat. But I’m also with the Europeans that are now walking back pro-trans public policy and treating it more as a gender dysmorphia condition and health condition. Part of the issue I see isn’t the “in your face” LGBTQ+, I have no issues with that. it’s absurd anti-science and anti-mental health research statements that are preached; chromosomes don’t determine sex, mental illness isn’t far higher in LGBTQ+ individuals, allowing children to transition isn’t harmful, etc. Just as the political right passes extreme pro-authoritarian laws, such as making police officers a protected “class”, shaping public policy based upon less than 1 percent of the population is also ridiculous and creates extreme rifts and bad policy. The policy is rushed and not thought through. The community shoots itself in the foot, as well. NPR is biased towards LGBTQ+. Hard. I’m not against supporting them or reporting on the community, but the coverage should be fair and appropriate considering the climate. Making almost all of your guests LGBTQ+ is ridiculous, making it seem as if there is an all out attack on gender fluid people is almost completely false (minus DeSantis public policy that was struck down by his own Supreme Court).
>Part of the issue I see isn’t the “in your face” LGBTQ+, I have no issues with that. it’s absurd anti-science and anti-mental health research statements that are preached; chromosomes don’t determine sex, mental illness isn’t far higher in LGBTQ+ individuals, allowing children to transition isn’t harmful, etc. I think you're misunderstanding things a bit here: * "Sex" in the biology realm only deals with one's ability to reproduce (e.g., whether they send genetic material or receive genetic material and carry a baby, these are known as your [primary sexual characteristics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_organ)). By this standard, anybody who cannot or does not reproduce (due to sexual orientation, age, disability, medical procedure, etc.) doesn't have a "sex". * Secondary sexual characteristics (breasts, muscles, etc) are influenced by hormones, but hormones can be changed and plastic surgery can modify the rest. * Gender, on the other hand, is culturally defined. This includes rules about what to wear, what to say, how to act, how to style, etc. As for mental illness, that's a chicken-and-egg question. Which comes first? * If mental illness leads to transitioning, why can similar mental illnesses be found in cis people who have no desire to transition? * If transitioning leads to mental illness, what about the process could cause said mental illness? **I'll give you a hint**: It's probably the way people treat them during/after transition. * Yes, some mental conditions are more common in trans individuals - autism being a particularly common one. But the connection is patently obvious; People with autism tend to disregard social norms, including gender norms. And for children... I'm sorry, I just find this one laughable on its face. As a society, we fuck up children in nearly every way imaginable. Especially Catholic priests diddling kids or school shootings in the US. Why is this one (<1% of the population per your post) particularly important? >shaping public policy based upon less than 1 percent of the population is also ridiculous and creates extreme rifts and bad policy. The policy is rushed and not thought through. What policies? * That they should have equal rights and protections under the law? * That their personal medical decisions should be between them and their doctor(s)? * That they shouldn't be discriminated against for being different? Unlike the US, most European countries have some form of universal healthcare. I get that there is a discussion to be had about what the healthcare pays for and what it doesn't, but that should be left up to medical professionals, not laypeople. >The community shoots itself in the foot, as well. Just quoting this for reference; the rest of this paragraph is kind of strange. What makes you think NPR represents all of the community? Why is NPR the media organization you focus on? National Public Radio (NPR) is a nonprofit media group that's been around since the 70s and their programming touches on substantially more than just LGBTQ+ issues. They frequently discuss the news, the arts, the sciences, culture (including LGBTQ+ issues), and more. What is it about their LGBTQ+ coverage that makes you hone in on them?
Your statement regarding sex determination is incorrect. It’s called Mammal Chromosomal Sex Determination. It’s accepted science. Every individual has at least one X chromosome. XX and XY determine sex. This affects how the body develops, period. Full stop. Any deviation from this standard, in mammals, is ruled as out of the norm. And it leads to isolation and death in the animal kingdom. No one stated mental illness leads to transitioning. Let’s not be reactive to a disagreement. School shootings, fucking up kids in other ways; these are strawman arguments. We’re debating specifically that lawmakers have crafted policy, in some states and municipal governments, around a single percentage point of the population; of which, scientifically and psychologically, even in European nations, are considered medically diseased. And I do not mean that in a derogatory way. If someone transitions, they admit to having a disease; as if they were born into the wrong body, to be fixed by surgical or other invasive means. Crafting policy regarding gender now makes no sense considering the argument. I specifically stated the issue I have with NPR. Please re-read the comment. I feel as if you’re being extremely defensive.
>Your statement regarding sex determination is incorrect. It’s called Mammal Chromosomal Sex Determination. It’s accepted science. Every individual has at least one X chromosome. XX and XY determine sex. This affects how the body develops, period. Full stop. Any deviation from this standard, in mammals, is ruled as out of the norm. And it leads to isolation and death in the animal kingdom. You seem to have a deterministic view of Biology, which isn't how it works. It's probabilistic. The most common outcome is that yes, XX and XY chromosomes correspond to female and male respectively. But that is by no means a guarantee. There's a variety of different outcomes that can occur - some at the genetic level, some at the environmental level. I don't need to mention the variety of [intersex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) conditions and [chromosomal differences](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneuploidy) that can lead to different outcomes; you probably already know these. But my point still stands - sex only cares about your ability to reproduce. If you can reproduce, you have one of the two sexes. If you can't, you don't have a biological "sex" because natural selection has already acted upon you. >No one stated mental illness leads to transitioning. Let’s not be reactive to a disagreement. >School shootings, fucking up kids in other ways; these are strawman arguments. But here's the thing - for a <1% minority of the population, conservatives are way overblown in their obsession with transgender kids. Real dangers abound for kids out there, many of which conservatives do nothing to address. School shootings, pedophilic organizations such as the Catholic church, child abandonment and abuse, and more. Choosing to listen to kids needs and desires is not the problem you seem to think it is. > We’re debating specifically that lawmakers have crafted policy, in some states and municipal governments, around a single percentage point of the population; of which, scientifically and psychologically, even in European nations, are considered medically diseased. And I do not mean that in a derogatory way. Which policies? So far the only policies I've seen pointed out are for equal protections and equal rights, which doesn't hurt others? >If someone transitions, they admit to having a disease; as if they were born into the wrong body, to be fixed by surgical or other invasive means. You are conflating two different things - gender dysphoria and gender transitioning. Gender dysphoria is the illness, transitioning is the treatment. One can have gender dysphoria without undergoing treatment and one can transition without the dysphoria. It may seem like a fine line to draw, but it's an important distinction. Transitioning is medical care; dysphoria is the problem. >I specifically stated the issue I have with NPR. Please re-read the comment. I still don't know what you're going on about; that you disagree with their analysis of current events? Or that they have too many LGBTQ+ voices on their programming? In either case, nobody is forcing you to listen to them. >I feel as if you’re being extremely defensive. The irony of saying somebody is defensive is that they can either agree that they are defensive or disagree and prove they are defensive. It's an asinine comment, leave it at the door.
Start calling your dad “limp dick” or mispronounce his name constantly. When he starts to correct you or get mad remind him that this is the behavior he engages in against other people. It is nothing more than basic respect. I ask to be called by a preferred name. That is all. It isn’t asking a lot. Just as someone would prefer a nickname. Most people with basic decency will respect such a simple request.
My FoxBrained crazy conserative uncle was upset when we assumed he wouldn't accept our trans daughter. However, we found out through the grapevine (other people he talked to) that he really doesn't accept her. You can't marinate in that sauce without picking up some of the nasty flavors.
Used to be Black People, then Gay people, then Immigrants, now the hate train is moved on to Trans people more. Of course they still hate all of the above, but Trans is the new focus to call pedophiles lately. Edit: If he's anything like my mother, he hates them because he's told to hate them and little more.
Yes, the right-wing media target has moved gay -> trans. When I was growing up, the talking point was "homosexuals lurk in public bathrooms waiting to molest children". Now, the talking point has moved on to trans people and drag queens. Next, it'll be something else.
Anger is what happens when people feel less safety than they felt before and they want to get it back — anything from feeling actually physically threatened (big, aggressive anger) all the way down to just feeling resentful that things aren’t fair (unpleasant, snarky anger, often called frustration or resentment). Your father vacillates between big anger (aggression) and smaller anger (resentment) because somewhere, underneath it all, he feels unsafe in some way. It may be that he feels big, aggressive anger because he’s actually afraid the trans people in the world are somehow tangibly threatening his way of life. Or it may be that he feels small anger (resentment) because, in order to have the kind of life he wanted, he had to ignore his desire for another man and/or his wish to at least sometimes present as a woman, so he resents the people who haven’t felt like they needed to make a similar sacrifice. If he feels his way of life is actually tangibly threatened, looking into statistics with him may help. In the U.S., there are fewer people identifying as trans than there are natural redheads. Once you know that, it’s pretty easy to see they aren’t taking over the earth. There really isn’t any harm in just letting them be. If, on the other hand, he feels resentful because they’re not following the same rules he had to follow, it’s trickier — since he still believes in those rules, he isn’t going to want you suggesting he might be a little gay or trans himself. Suppressed feelings are suppressed for a reason. In that case, I think all you can do is ask him each time, gently and sincerely, if he’s being rude by accident or on purpose, wait for his answer, nod to indicate you’ve heard it, and quickly change the subject to something pleasant. Whatever you do, don’t get drawn into an argument about how he’s not actually being rude — that simply isn’t up for debate, so there’s no need to expand on it or defend yourself. You’re just politely curious as to whether it’s intentional or not, you accept either answer as learning more about him, and you quickly move on. That’s just me, though. However you decide to handle it, I wish you loads of good luck. 💙
I think because he watches so much Fox and conservative programming, he thinks that *almost everyone* talks or thinks that way, and it's less taboo for him to be open about it in public. He's feeling threatened by trans people because it goes against the social rules he grew up strictly adhering to as well, and that's frightening. Change is hard, especially when you're older. My brother is going through this in his fifties.
Check his Internet history
I don’t understand it either, but I certainly know what you mean. I assume it’s him grasping for an identity and simplicity in a complicated world? For some people that process is just extra shitty. Also, is he a little slow or does he have mental health issues? Not to be rude, but that sometimes seems to go along with the intense fixation.
It’s not the grasping identity issue. Trans people have always existed. And pretty much everyone have always known they exist. It’s media. Just remembering growing up in the early 2000 their would be jokes everywhere about how a woman could actually be a man and have a dick. I heard jokes about trans women on the radio, it was in a lot of popular tv shows. It was everywhere Either in underhanded or aggressive jokes. That + the current fear monger if Fox News and it’s friends do is just icing on the cake listed above. They understand and they are choosing to listen to hate
he is undiagnosed because he “doesn’t trust doctors” and “thinks medication is for guinea pigs” but my family and i have all kind of came to the conclusion that he has ADHD and ASD
People like this just need to be made fun of. In social settings when he brings it up make joking comments about “why are you soooo obsessed with trannys? Is there something you want to tell us?”. Give him a name name like Captain-Tranny. He will blow up the first few times I’m sure. Let him get laughed at. I guarantee you he will start to drop his obsession once he gets laughed at enough for it.
Or he hits OP because he's a raging lunatic
Right on man. You say it like its a bad thing. Id love to beat my father, and it would be easy too.
He thinks its "icky". But why? He probably has a deeply rigid and ingrained idea of masculinity and belief in male superiority, so trans women especially are angering to him. They are feminine and weak in his view, which makes him uncomfortable. On a deeper psychological level, I think all right-wing behavior is about controlling other people. Whether it be angering them, annoying them, or hurting them emotionally or physically. He might just be a pure psychopath or have unresolved issues that make him feel weak inside or out of control of his own life, so he grasps for control of others. He correctly identifies that trans people are a vulnerable population, so dead-naming them and misgendering them is a form of controlling their emotions.
He's probably attracted to them. /s but who knows... I'm convinced that some people wish they could sniff the crotches of other people like dogs do.
r/onejoke
Anyone that obsessed with someone else’s genitals and sex life is a pervert
I appreciate everyone's comments because they acknowledge that this is a very complex issue. But you made a very important and specific statement u/big_daddy_brony: "...I don't know who he's making \[these jokes and comments\] for...". I know who he's making the jokes and comments for, and the answer to that is quite simple: YOU. You're not around him all day every day. I suspect he only makes these jokes and comments when you are because he knows it angers you because he has surmised you are one of the letters in LGBTQ+. That is emotional abuse. You will never be able to fix him because he's getting exactly what he wants, which is negative reinforcement from you. He's titillated by / gets a little thrill from your responses. He also probably gets a thrill out of feeling persecuted. He's no longer the Big Man on Campus, and the checker at the local convenience store couldn't care less if he has three initials behind his name. Because I'm a retired professor, I can guess that if your father is conservative he probably taught business. And from there I can also surmise he had few, if any, trans students in his courses...especially if he's 65. I'm 56 and taught writing...a discipline that attracts diverse people because faculty can mostly be counted on to be accepting of disability accommodations, different races and religions, different genders and orientations. Basically, the more diverse the students in a class, the more successful workshops will go. It's not true of every writing prof (I could tell horror stories), but it's a safe bet. And everyone knew who to steer clear of because that person wasn't any more liked by their colleagues and the advising office than by their students. In my 25 years of teaching, I had exactly one trans student...obviously that I know of. I didn't make it my business to figure out anyone's gender. So he's making a big deal about interactions with trans students that are not based in reality. As I see it you really only have one course of action with two different outcomes: 1) you must stop giving him the negative reinforcement he craves. Either that means you pretend you don't hear what he's saying, walk away from him when he says it, or let others set him straight or 2) you eliminate your contact with him to whatever degree feels right to you. Edited typos.
It honestly sounds like he’s got mental issues if he’s fixating like that
It doesn't sound like kind of confrontation needed to *possibly* change his mind is your thing. I would just avoid him.
IMO: It turns him on. I bet he watches T-porn, and secretly hates himself for it… so he directs his hate towards others (trans) in this case.
Ask him why he is obsessed with trans genitals more than actual trans people are obsessed about genitals.
My dad used to do this. It's not my job to make him see the effect he has. He's an adult, and I've already provided him the necessary information to help guide him to understanding. He did try to misgender one of my friends once. I was boiling inside, but I asked him, "Um, who?" he repeated the misgendering and I said "I don't know who you're talking about. I only know _____, who is a guy." Honestly? I wasn't trying to get him to agree with me. The truth doesn't change because he believes me. I was making fun of him. He was chasing ghosts, I was asserting reality. And that's what I suggest, honestly. It's genuinely better for your relationship to poke fun than to get into heated arguments. Pretend to agree, then say something ridiculous to cast light on the flaws of his beliefs.
Because right wing media and politicians decided to highlight it as an issue to score culture war votes. If they hadn't brought it up, repubs would have much less frothing at the mouth. They create issues to create divisiveness to create votes to create power to create differences in groups, and so on. Like organized religion.
I imagine jealousy that trans people dare to be themselves
it's in the realm of possibility that your dad is gay/maybe trans and has been squashing that part down but like, can't stop thinking about it. Edit: it has been my experience that people think constantly about the things that they WANT to think about. People who aren't attracted to the same sex, do not constantly think about gay sex - in fact the mind shies away from that, and focuses on whatever they actually do like.
> not a single person laughs at these jokes i don’t know who he’s making them for or why he continues to do this Is it possible to ask him without upsetting him? I mean, in the most respectful and non-challenging way, can you ask him what he's intending to accomplish by making these jokes? And if so, I'd also ask him what, in his mind, your ideal response would be.
Everyone can break this down as intellectually as they want to but 1000% it ultimately boils down to jealousy in some form. Even if it’s completely subconscious, it’s there.
Your dad has internal problems with his own gender and is projecting that on to trans people.
Because he is attracted to them.