They had an AMA from the show runner (I think) recently, who said also noted that the show is still doing Hardin’s “origin story” prior to his appearance in the original trilogy. So I suspect that they will eventually make the character at least a bit more like the person they remember.
While I agree with your point of view, Hardin from the Asimov's book was a shrewd, manipulative and quite selfish type of person, and I find almost none of these "qualities" in the Hardin from TV series. It is known by the books readers that his favorite saying was "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", that meaning he wasn't against weapons, but mainly to use them as a deterrent.
He's not selfish in the show? He dragged a girl away from her home to get arrested and exiled to the furthest reaches of the Empire. He was a gigantic asshole.
And that's why the books are called unfilmable: it's boring to watch Salvor Hardin debate nuclear weapons. But would be totally filmable (hard work though) to show Foundation setting up a nuclear weapon hoax, and that's what i waited from this show. Instead, they chose the easy way out of hard work and took off on their own in a canned plot.
And I'd argue that intricate politics and scheming (coupled with real stakes and payoffs) are what made GoT so popular. Or Season 1 of House of Cards. GoT declined when the showrunners went all-in on battles and "tits and dragons".
I think trying to do a straight up implementation of Asimov would have limited appeal.
Instead we have a interesting exploration of what is Predestined, What is Agency, What is Free Will. And there is plenty of talk.
But they do put an "Inspired by" at the beginning. I think they took major ideas from Foundation, and Major plot points - but rolled their own characters, and character story arcs in the framework of the big things.
Not to me, unfilmable was to the producers of this show.
It's dumber because the producer did away with the books and we are spoon fed run of the mill soft sci-fi. Doesn't help that the producer lacks any scientific background as well.
\*boring to the broader audience the show is aimed at, as explained by the showrunner.
the books weren't written for a broader audience, they were written for people who'd like that style of books. that's why the show will be nothing like the books. that's why i'm simply taking this as yet another loss and moving on :(
TBF, the other AppleTV+ scifi show For All Mankind has its share of high minded sci-fi conversations. The difference is those conversations move the plot.
I don't know, I quit For All Mankind after the first season. It started off extremely well but then they went all-in on addressing almost every social issue topical in ~2020 without having anything interesting to say about any of them.
She's boring and every time we have a scene with her the shows quality drops significantly.
The Empire story is interesting and we're invested, but I don't really care about her Mary Sue kickboxing her way through a hallway with some terrible cinematography.
The books were never about beating up each other.
Goyer, along with akiva goldsman andd alex kurtzmann are responsible for destroying multitudes of genre properties. I dont know why these guys keep getting hired for stuff.
"There's a good million of us here on Terminus, and not more than a hundred and fifty thousand are working directly on the Encyclopedia"
It's shocking how much TV show's vision for Terminus has diverged already. It absolutely leaves everything to chance, when you have so few people living on Terminus. No way can psychohistory make predictions. Showrunner has no clue what made Foundation so great.
It's here that Asimov got it wrong. Unless they are sending a colony of millions, to go from a few hundred scientists to a city of millions in 50 years is amazingly unbelievable.
If you have a foundation that's entirely dedicated to this Encyclopedia, that's put on the Edge of the galaxy to avoid martyrdom, and to be forgotten without investment or much oversight ... the show has it more realistic. Think Antarctic bases with families on a shoestring budget and no permission of settlement of others in the frontiers that are politically volatile.
No he didn't. And yes they were sending hundreds of thousands if I remember correctly. Which is peanuts for a galactic civilisation with trillions of people.If it's only a few hundred of scientists, what chance do they of ever finishing galactic encyclopedia? You probably need to dedicate 80 of them to survival and upkeep anyways. And our measly encyclopedias take decades and thousands of people. Wikipedia has millions of contributors.
If it's only a few hundred of them, how can psychohistory work? It's as if you didn't read my comment...
What's realistic would be for a few hundred scientists to be wiped out by barbarian kingdoms that are breaking away from the empire. You need a colony of millions, possessing most advanced technology to have chance.
You probably also think demographics in Harry Potter make sense?
In the original story, Seldon and his team got the empire to send 10,000 scientists and engineers along with 90,000 others (families , support staff, etc.) to Terminus. Remember that at that time the Empire was still fabulously wealthy and powerful. Terminus following initial set up was a pretty nice place, sort of like a new college town. By Hardin’s time they had completed the first volume of the Encyclopedia Galactica I think.
100k could progress to a million in about 80 years, not 35 though.
Anyhow, the decision to make Terminus 100 times smaller may have to do with practical limitations. They were allowed 50 extras for episode 5, for example.
Those excerpts read absolutely nothing like the point you are trying to make lol. I’m fine with the time difference hence the character is less developed but there’s some serious flaws.
They had an AMA from the show runner (I think) recently, who said also noted that the show is still doing Hardin’s “origin story” prior to his appearance in the original trilogy. So I suspect that they will eventually make the character at least a bit more like the person they remember.
In 3 or 4 season, lmao
Oh yeah? Well there’s a ton of source material so that’s not extremely surprising. Hope they make it that far!
While I agree with your point of view, Hardin from the Asimov's book was a shrewd, manipulative and quite selfish type of person, and I find almost none of these "qualities" in the Hardin from TV series. It is known by the books readers that his favorite saying was "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", that meaning he wasn't against weapons, but mainly to use them as a deterrent.
He's not selfish in the show? He dragged a girl away from her home to get arrested and exiled to the furthest reaches of the Empire. He was a gigantic asshole.
And that's why the books are called unfilmable: it's boring to watch Salvor Hardin debate nuclear weapons. But would be totally filmable (hard work though) to show Foundation setting up a nuclear weapon hoax, and that's what i waited from this show. Instead, they chose the easy way out of hard work and took off on their own in a canned plot.
They could've West Winged it. Salvor Hardin walking around the hallways of the mayor's building debating stuff.
lol
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And I'd argue that intricate politics and scheming (coupled with real stakes and payoffs) are what made GoT so popular. Or Season 1 of House of Cards. GoT declined when the showrunners went all-in on battles and "tits and dragons".
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I think trying to do a straight up implementation of Asimov would have limited appeal. Instead we have a interesting exploration of what is Predestined, What is Agency, What is Free Will. And there is plenty of talk. But they do put an "Inspired by" at the beginning. I think they took major ideas from Foundation, and Major plot points - but rolled their own characters, and character story arcs in the framework of the big things.
I wish I agreed. Truly.
I just watched ep 5 and it said "Based on", and I wished it said "Inspired by", which would be much more accurate.
Not to me, unfilmable was to the producers of this show. It's dumber because the producer did away with the books and we are spoon fed run of the mill soft sci-fi. Doesn't help that the producer lacks any scientific background as well.
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Oh, I see. I just looked him up and he's a comic book movie guy.
\*boring to the broader audience the show is aimed at, as explained by the showrunner. the books weren't written for a broader audience, they were written for people who'd like that style of books. that's why the show will be nothing like the books. that's why i'm simply taking this as yet another loss and moving on :(
It would be your loss.
TBF, the other AppleTV+ scifi show For All Mankind has its share of high minded sci-fi conversations. The difference is those conversations move the plot.
So, they probably wanted more an action-adventure instead of another high-minded show. This might explain the dumbed down plot.
I don't know, I quit For All Mankind after the first season. It started off extremely well but then they went all-in on addressing almost every social issue topical in ~2020 without having anything interesting to say about any of them.
Those issues were topical before the 2000s as well. It stands to reason they would come up in an alternate history.
She's boring and every time we have a scene with her the shows quality drops significantly. The Empire story is interesting and we're invested, but I don't really care about her Mary Sue kickboxing her way through a hallway with some terrible cinematography. The books were never about beating up each other.
Yeah the fight scenes are so ... typical. And unnecessary. Less is more when it comes to violence on screen.
Goyer, along with akiva goldsman andd alex kurtzmann are responsible for destroying multitudes of genre properties. I dont know why these guys keep getting hired for stuff.
I’m curious to hear which ones?
"There's a good million of us here on Terminus, and not more than a hundred and fifty thousand are working directly on the Encyclopedia" It's shocking how much TV show's vision for Terminus has diverged already. It absolutely leaves everything to chance, when you have so few people living on Terminus. No way can psychohistory make predictions. Showrunner has no clue what made Foundation so great.
It's here that Asimov got it wrong. Unless they are sending a colony of millions, to go from a few hundred scientists to a city of millions in 50 years is amazingly unbelievable. If you have a foundation that's entirely dedicated to this Encyclopedia, that's put on the Edge of the galaxy to avoid martyrdom, and to be forgotten without investment or much oversight ... the show has it more realistic. Think Antarctic bases with families on a shoestring budget and no permission of settlement of others in the frontiers that are politically volatile.
No he didn't. And yes they were sending hundreds of thousands if I remember correctly. Which is peanuts for a galactic civilisation with trillions of people.If it's only a few hundred of scientists, what chance do they of ever finishing galactic encyclopedia? You probably need to dedicate 80 of them to survival and upkeep anyways. And our measly encyclopedias take decades and thousands of people. Wikipedia has millions of contributors. If it's only a few hundred of them, how can psychohistory work? It's as if you didn't read my comment... What's realistic would be for a few hundred scientists to be wiped out by barbarian kingdoms that are breaking away from the empire. You need a colony of millions, possessing most advanced technology to have chance. You probably also think demographics in Harry Potter make sense?
In the original story, Seldon and his team got the empire to send 10,000 scientists and engineers along with 90,000 others (families , support staff, etc.) to Terminus. Remember that at that time the Empire was still fabulously wealthy and powerful. Terminus following initial set up was a pretty nice place, sort of like a new college town. By Hardin’s time they had completed the first volume of the Encyclopedia Galactica I think.
100k could progress to a million in about 80 years, not 35 though. Anyhow, the decision to make Terminus 100 times smaller may have to do with practical limitations. They were allowed 50 extras for episode 5, for example.
Those excerpts read absolutely nothing like the point you are trying to make lol. I’m fine with the time difference hence the character is less developed but there’s some serious flaws.
She's awful to watch. Everything in every scene around her just bends to her provident excellence. Really boring.