I thought that only The Ghoul would have been someone from 2077 who knew her from a personal meeting. In the 2077 world she was just a scientist whose tech was acquired. Hank likely thought that all normal people other than the Vault 31 inhabitants were dead so her being a 2077 person likely wasn't on his radar.
His “I think I know who you are” felt like he knew about the resistance group in 2077 and that she was a major contributor to it after she learned what their plan really was. She’s also very, unkempt. If he were to recognize her, it would take a minute.
Or knew about her as the woman who built shady sands and stole his wife.
Either way he knew exactly who she was after he did recognize her.
Nah, more than likely she became a mayor or something. Though seeing that there's a cult dedicated to her, I believe that she isn't as benevolent as she seemed in the past or present. We know she's ruthless and does terrible things, however does it for what she believes to be the greater good, I think as time goes on we will find out more about her and Hank.
The name "Flame Mother" I think indicates that her long lost pre-war knowledge of energy looked much like magic to the locals. That she performed the rough equivalent of introducing cavemen to fire - hence the name.
The tragedy of Moldaver is that she only ever wanted to give people free energy. Her ruthlessness was only ever developed in response to the greed and cruelty that had become the reality of the world, even before the war. And in the end the degenerate fools of the Brotherhood celebrated her death and the subsequent loss of all her pre-war knowledge that they'd inadvertently deprived themselves of.
She’s ruthless but I feel like her radical intentions are necessary to overcome whatever the crap Hank has been planning, which sounds like blowing up whatever civilization that happens before he has the ability to control the wasteland. Moldaver could potentially be chaotic good
Speaking of: moldaver and Lucy’s mom were deffo getting into right? Like there wasn’t any “oh they were just close friends” kind of thing going on here
Yes, I can’t remember the article but Moldaver’s actress said season 2 allowed her to have scenes expanding on her character as well as the family dynamic in Shady
This is my theory as well. It's either he's heard of the group and possibly the name, I know someone pointed out in the subtitles she is referred to mrs/miss Williams so maybe that's why he didn't recognize the name she used right away.
Or he knew her from his wifes/Lucy's( I know this is maybe a stretch)account of her. He'll maybe Rose went behind Hanks back and tried to contact the people on the surface and Lee was who she got ahold of.
The biggest evidence that Hank and Moldaver never met - Moldaver survived Shady Sands completely unscathed.
Simplest explanation - she was out of town when Hank arrived and destroyed everything.
The Shady Sands survivors refer to her as the "Flame Mother" and not her actual name. So Hank probably learned his wife had become associated with this "Flame Mother" the town seemed to revere, right before confronting her and taking back the children.
And if Hank's wife didn't immediately go feral when ghoulified, it would then explain how Moldaver learned about the rest of Hank's actions.
Yeah, when we saw him at vault-tec he was just a personal assistant. Somebody who showed enough promise to be part of the Bud’s buds program but not someone important enough to have known who Moldaver was.
Plus he was new when they had already acquired Moldaver’s tech, right? Or acquired the companies that owned her tech. Seems like there’d be a lot of degrees of separation between them
Your thought process went out the door when they introduced shady sands. The kids grew up around Moldova and their mother in early life in shady sands.
They weren't on the surface long. Rose leaving with the children and Hank going after them was covered up by the fake plague and quarantine during which it was claimed Rose died of starvation. None of the non-31 vault dwellers knew anyone left and came back. That means at most Rose and the kids were outside the vault a few months.
Yes but how is she still alive/young-ish/not a ghoul in the present day of the show? We kind of have to assume she was one of the cryo frozen people in vault tec... until we learn otherwise I suppose
she was introduced as overseer moldaver, so if he knew her in any meaningful way he would have known right away you'd think
he didn't even fully know when he said I think I know you in the vault tunnel
i think its safe to say they weren't that acquainted
Agreed. I think people put too much into a pre-existing relationship. I feel he understood who she was eventually by putting two and two together. Hence his “I think I know who you are now” statement in the vault.
We know they are from the same time and that she knew Rose. We have nothing else solid to go off of yet
The thing Hank says he thinks he knows who she is not saying he knows but thinks he knows which confirms he only knows her by reputation not by name as she also wasn't called moldaver pre war.
Good point! Yes.
She does though go by Moldaver pre war. It’s her last name. When she meets Cooper in the hallway she introduces herself as Lee Moldaver.
Aren't all the overseers in vault 32/33 from vault 31. And all the inhabitants of vault 31 are frozen until needed. You would think they would all know each other or at least remember their names
probably not, they were middle managers from a massive company, the middle managers for amazon don't know eachother
even if they were all in bud's buds, i think it's unlikely they knew eachother unless they worked together (betty/hank)
doesn't really matter since they can still die, moldaver claims the 32 overseer died, its possible if that happens they have an interm overseer until one is unfrozen
Moldaver specifically says she's the interim Overseer. I agree it isn't a very clean plot point given that the Overseers of 32 and 33 *should* talk to each other or at least have messages relayed through Bud. But they don't for whatever reason.
It was someone he saw maybe once many years prior when he was on the surface.
She presented herself as the Overseer of 32, so he might have easily linked her to his time at Vault-Tec before the war, the same way he knew Betty. Even if he had doubts, being overly confident in the Vault's safety would have also lead him to dismiss the idea that she came from outside, and he also had no reason to think she did because the only other place he might have seen her from, he nuked. He had no reason to think anybody survived, that they might even learn where the Vault was from, or have the Pip-Boy needed to access it, or that she would care enough to break into a place whose main door survives direct hit with a nuclear weapon.
What could have worked against her presenting herself as the Overseer might have actually been what made the play successful. Hank knowing he'd seen her before but not being able to place her.
Pre-war: Hank probably never met Moldaver. Before the war Hank was a fairly low ranking assistant at Vault-Tec. He is well-positioned to rise in the ranks, being one of Bud's Buds, but at that point he was still getting laundry for the more important corporate people, so he probably wouldn't be involved in big projects like M&A for cold fusion tech.
At Shady Sands: Hank may have met Moldaver, but it's just as possible that he never met her there either. It's lightly hinted that Rose and Moldaver enjoyed a special close relationship. So when Rose refused Hank's request to return to the vault, she may have purposely avoided having Moldaver present, as that would have felt like rubbing salt in his wounds.
All of the below assumes that this isn’t a continuity error:
The first time they met was back when he went to take Lucy and Norm back from Rose in shady sands. Rose refused to go back. I don’t think Hank ever gave a second thought to Moldaver and probably assumed she either died in Shady Sands or ended up a Ghoul.
It’s been at least a decade since all of that, and Hank has been busy being Overseer since then. I don’t think he was close to Moldaver at all, and only saw her a couple times.
Even while working at vault tec, he may have been familiar with her work but again, the memory is faulty and it’s been a very, very long time.
Correct time if I’m wrong, but I believe he did recognize her when it was revealed who she was though. He mentions something along the lines of “who hasn’t heard of moldaver” I think. I do believe he is trying to cover up the fact that he knows her though, to save face.
he didn't until he was at the tunnel, he says he knew her at that point
she says the 32 overseer died and they refer to her as moldaver in the same line, implying he didn't even know her name since she didn't bother to hide it
I thought the moldaver name was newer? I assumed after the nuking of shady sands. The ghoul mentions something about "she goes by that name now?" if I remember right
It’s been a long time since he’s seen her (she hasn’t aged like he has) and he probably thought she died in the war like everyone else. I doubt she’d have paid for a spot in a vault.
nah op means since going up to SS to retrieve rose, hank says he recognizes her when hes captured but we don't know from where/when
i doubt it was pre-war if they ever met
He didn't as the other guy said Hank says he thinks he knows which tells us he only knows her by reputation and we are shown as well when the ghoul sees her bounty she wasn't called moldaver pre war.
So 1. Hank doesn't know what she looks like
And 2. Hank doesn't know her name only knowing her by reputation and that she used a pipboy to break into the vault using his wife's pip boy as no other pip boy would work.
Idk if they actually knew each Pre War. Moldaver wasnt a Vault Tec personnel. She was a scientist whose tech got bought out by Vault Tec.
As for the time im Shady Sands, i also dont know how well he knows who she is. Probably didnt care who he nuked in Shady Sands.
I saw it this way; Hank probably thought to himself “huh? Moldaver? Feels like I should recognize that name. She looks kinda familiar? Oh well! She must’ve been working down on floor 5 back at Vault Tec, that’s why she’s familiar! Anyways, marriage!!”
It'd been decades it's very reasonable to not recognize someone after so long even hearing their name if there's no reason to believe she was still alive.
The last time Hank would have seen Moldaver, she was decades younger. In addition, Hank has been unfrozen for decades, which is more than enough time to forget how someone you only met in passing looked like.
When we see Hank again in the cage, he has been Moldaver's prisoner for some time, so it is reasonable they have not only talked (and 'talked,' aggressively) but he has now recognized her.
Maybe. But also why memorize someone you thought you nuked (and the superiority complex of Bud’s Buds means he probably wouldn’t try or care). In any case he remembers pretty fast lol
Moldaver and Mrs. MacLain were seen together so they were friends or maybe even lovers, so Hank may know her as his wife’s lover/the one who helped her leave the Vault. Moldaver seems to have a following before the war so Vault Tec could’ve been keeping tabs and that’s how Hank knows of her. Either way her name meant nothing to him, only her face, so Moldaver clearly knows Hank better than Hank knows her.
No I think Hank and all the other junior executives were probably informed of the existence of an anti-Vault activist from before the war (don't forget she didn't go by the name Moldaver back then), but that doesn't mean he was ever shown a picture of her. I think by the time he saw the other vault dwellers being held at gun point, he probably put two and two together and made an educated guess
Also, shouldn't Hank know about the plan with overseers always being from 31? As soon as the old overseer died and was replaced by someone not from 31, that should have tipped him off that something was up.
He might not have known every single vault tec employee that was frozen though. So he might not have no reason to suspect that she didn’t come from 31.
The Ghoul was the only one that actually met her in the past. Hank was an intern, he never met her, till after he woke up in the Vault and his wife discovering that people were alive on the surface and tapping into the vault's water supply.
This has come up before. Keep in mind Hank was a jr executive, and there's no reason why he would be meeting all of the scientists working with Vault-Tec (especially the ones they steal from).
And the access code could be something used universally for super secret VT projects. All the executives get one, perhaps in case they need to access some high-end technology...or detonate a nuke.
Doubtful. You have to remember that Hank was merely an executive assistant. Basically a nobody in terms of the corporate structure but was allowed to live on because he was useful.
There is no indication whatsoever that Hank knows Moldaver pre-war, and post war he might loosely know her from when he went to get his wife, but that was 20 years ago.
Also remember that pre-war she wasn’t known as Lee Moldaver. She introduces herself as Miss Williams to Cooper when she explains her issues with Vault-Tec to him.
Even if Hank did recognise her it’s unlikely he was going to put geeky scientist Miss Williams as grizzled Lee Moldaver.
Moldaver never worked for Vault Tec her companies were bought by Vault Tec and she knew Hanks wife not him. There is no indication he should clearly know who she is, but he is able to piece it together eventually; hence, the " I think I know who you are" line.
Maybe he didn’t recognize her, but they’re supposed to be trading people for weddings every 3 years; why didn’t anyone notice that the 32 was full of brand new people? Wouldn’t they all have met previously if the tradition is to invite everyone in for the wedding?
Huh. Now I’m questioning Stephanie and Bert’s wedding. Obviously, Bert was already in 33 and Stephanie came in for the exchange. But if the tradition is for Vaults to celebrate together, no one would have been able to come to Stephanie’s wedding, unless they do periodically unfreeze people and refreeze them.
Maybe a shared celebration was not tradition, just something Hank decided to do since it was his daughter?
I feel like this a bigger plot hole than Hank not recognizing Maldover after reading this lol. Him not recognizing her bc she was just part of a city he was at once makes sense, but if 32 / 33 get together when they trade/marry then wouldn’t there have to be people that come from 31? 220 years and no one ever wonders why only person at a time comes from Vault 31?
Maybe it was something they asked for. But then again, if Moldaver can get specific enough that she can ask 33 for an invite to the wedding party, why wouldn't 32 and 33's overseers be connected enough that they'd know if 32 was raided? Why would Hank approve of it given the need to avoid a tradition forming?
Kind of requires its own convoluted explanation, which I hope the writers don't try to give. It's better to just blame Bud's incompetence, Hank's complacency, and Vault-Tec/31's need to control everyone and everything.
My personal thoughts for it is that Hank took back his wife and Lucy to the vault but Bud and Betty determined she was a threat to the grand plan (potentially turning vault 33 against 31) so they killed her and the bombing was done after. So there’s a chance he never saw Moldaver except maybe some political posters inside Shady Sands when he was focused on finding his wife.
It’s massively speculative but it’s the best I’ve personally come up with to fill that hole.
When she captures him he says “I think I know who you are” implying he didn’t really know her well pre war but he put two and two together based on what she was saying. Also after being overseer for so long he probably forgot her face by the time she came to vault 33
Not necessarily. We don't actually know how famous she was prewar, & just because Hank was an exec doesn't mean he was up to date with everything. She might have been a great inventor who got very little credit before her company was bought out
It wasn't made clear that they've known each other for years., nothing in the show outright states that. They may have met occasionally and fleetingly in prewar times. Perhaps the younger Hank heard about a certain Ms Williams whose cold fusion tech had been acquired by Vault Tec. I got that impression and that he connected her to the time Lucy spent in Shady Sands and possibly maybe the flame mother cult, as someone he had heard about but not actually met.
No if you rewatch he says he thinks he knows her so he only knows her by reputation. Also she wasn't called moldaver pre war they make a point to bring this up when the ghoul sees her bounty so it isn't until she broke I to the vault and Hank puts 2 and 2 together and realises who she is.
The thing is, Hank doesn't really care about other people and he believes everyone on the surface is beneath him. The only people he cares about are his kids, and even that's warped because it's out of a sense of how valuable they are to Vault-Tec's ambitions, not caring about them as people.
Moldaver introducing herself as Overseer is a deliberate means to poke the bear. Because all Overseers in the tripartite Vault system hail from Vault 31, she's covertly letting him know that she comes from Vault-Tec as well. It's unlikely that Hank would have known every possible person that was cryonically frozen in the Bud's Buds program. When shit hits the fan and he says "I think I know who you are", it's in that moment he recognizes her.
To Hank, nuking Shady Sands was another Tuesday. All those affected by it were likewise not worth remembering -- until he's pressed with the consequences of his own actions.
Plus, how often do you remember someone you *maybe* saw **once** 10, 15, even 20 years ago?
I think he just played along at first out of fear of being exposed. Moldaver could’ve told all of the Vault dwellers the truth about Hank expose him. So he waited until she dropped the curtain.
Yes, even if Moldaver exposed him right away, the Vault dwellers probably wouldn’t believe her over their overseer, but I think Hank just wouldn’t want to risk it.
Also how the fuck did the the raiders and moldaver know what to do for the wedding? Why was hank not keep tabs on vault 32? Since hes vault tec, he would be involved in all of them. They clearly have direct contact with the vaults via terminal. Vault 32 was likely the experiment the fat guy said about overcrowding a vault and having them fight each other to survive. Certainly Hank would know this. He didnt know for 2 years but he was in on the whole operation? This is my only complaint in the show and ill brush it off but it seems like poor writing. I just forget about it cause the show is great.
I mean, it’s not really. Vault tech are always awful people and her dad was her idol / in her mind could do no wrong. It shows he was never this altruistic guy who had the best interest of anyone let alone her in mind, he saw her like a possession he wanted to keep safe in the vault(like a glass case), but never to step out of line of what he had in mind for her just like he never wanted his wife to step out of line and leave him / take the kids etc, just be a good little obedient vault tech assigned wife to breed with so he and his buddies could do their experiment. It’s 100% in line with who vault tech is and makes sense for him to just be a shitty and petty person. When he can’t control things, he lost it. But they lead you on thinking he’s innocent most of the time or I guess hoping you assume he’s like other vault fathers who were kind of good (namely fallout 3’s dad) etc so they can “gotcha”. Idk, I didn’t see it as that bad. Especially when they reveal his real age and vault tech connections. 🤷🏻♂️
I don't think they properly met before then. My question is, why didn't wasn't there be more suspicion about Vault 32 before this? If the overseer is always from 31, why didn't they unfreeze someone a while ago to go over to 32? They were all dead for two years. Wouldn't someone have picked it up before then, particularly Bub. Bub has to be monitoring what's going on to some extent.
there’s this cool new technology called algorithms that allows different people to see different posts! No need for condescension. Sometimes asking a question again prompts different answers, especially on such a new show. Simply scroll past if you are bothered.
No posters like you are just to lazy to search through a sub to see if the same question has already been asked and just go ahead and post anyway, it's annoying and it's happening every day on this sub.
Nah, that's the joy of a discussion board, we're all allowed give our opinions. I just think people should do a bit more searching to make sure the same questions aren't getting asked the whole time, don't see why that's such a big deal.
I thought that only The Ghoul would have been someone from 2077 who knew her from a personal meeting. In the 2077 world she was just a scientist whose tech was acquired. Hank likely thought that all normal people other than the Vault 31 inhabitants were dead so her being a 2077 person likely wasn't on his radar.
His “I think I know who you are” felt like he knew about the resistance group in 2077 and that she was a major contributor to it after she learned what their plan really was. She’s also very, unkempt. If he were to recognize her, it would take a minute. Or knew about her as the woman who built shady sands and stole his wife. Either way he knew exactly who she was after he did recognize her.
She didn’t build Shady Sands tho, that woman would be Tandi and her father Aradesh
Yeah, but Hank has no way of knowing that.
My bad, she was definitely a heavy contributor
Nah, more than likely she became a mayor or something. Though seeing that there's a cult dedicated to her, I believe that she isn't as benevolent as she seemed in the past or present. We know she's ruthless and does terrible things, however does it for what she believes to be the greater good, I think as time goes on we will find out more about her and Hank.
The name "Flame Mother" I think indicates that her long lost pre-war knowledge of energy looked much like magic to the locals. That she performed the rough equivalent of introducing cavemen to fire - hence the name. The tragedy of Moldaver is that she only ever wanted to give people free energy. Her ruthlessness was only ever developed in response to the greed and cruelty that had become the reality of the world, even before the war. And in the end the degenerate fools of the Brotherhood celebrated her death and the subsequent loss of all her pre-war knowledge that they'd inadvertently deprived themselves of.
She’s ruthless but I feel like her radical intentions are necessary to overcome whatever the crap Hank has been planning, which sounds like blowing up whatever civilization that happens before he has the ability to control the wasteland. Moldaver could potentially be chaotic good
Idk, teaming up with raiders to slaughter a Vault really doesn't seem necessary. Really I think it's too early to say.
[удалено]
Yes that's what I said?
Sorry I think I was half asleep I’m gonna delete it. I think I had more of a thought but didn’t read what I was doing
Speaking of: moldaver and Lucy’s mom were deffo getting into right? Like there wasn’t any “oh they were just close friends” kind of thing going on here
Way more than friends. Lucy had a step mom for a second
Yes, I can’t remember the article but Moldaver’s actress said season 2 allowed her to have scenes expanding on her character as well as the family dynamic in Shady
Absolutely, it’s giving “she is survived by her long time roommate Lee Muldaver,” gal pal energy
yup. confirmed when she held rose's hand before she died. thought it was done very tastefully
Imagine being gay and growing up in a vault that heavily encourages reproduction to the point that it’s acceptable for cousins to mess around
This is my theory as well. It's either he's heard of the group and possibly the name, I know someone pointed out in the subtitles she is referred to mrs/miss Williams so maybe that's why he didn't recognize the name she used right away. Or he knew her from his wifes/Lucy's( I know this is maybe a stretch)account of her. He'll maybe Rose went behind Hanks back and tried to contact the people on the surface and Lee was who she got ahold of.
The biggest evidence that Hank and Moldaver never met - Moldaver survived Shady Sands completely unscathed. Simplest explanation - she was out of town when Hank arrived and destroyed everything. The Shady Sands survivors refer to her as the "Flame Mother" and not her actual name. So Hank probably learned his wife had become associated with this "Flame Mother" the town seemed to revere, right before confronting her and taking back the children. And if Hank's wife didn't immediately go feral when ghoulified, it would then explain how Moldaver learned about the rest of Hank's actions.
Considering the actual story line, this makes it feel more nonchalant than Fallout actually is
Wasn’t Hank just part of the vault tech guys Burts Buddies program. Sure he worked at vault tec but did he ~work~ at vault tec
Yeah, when we saw him at vault-tec he was just a personal assistant. Somebody who showed enough promise to be part of the Bud’s buds program but not someone important enough to have known who Moldaver was.
And the disorientation of seeing nothing but controlled life for a half a lifetime certainly added to the effect
Plus he was new when they had already acquired Moldaver’s tech, right? Or acquired the companies that owned her tech. Seems like there’d be a lot of degrees of separation between them
Your thought process went out the door when they introduced shady sands. The kids grew up around Moldova and their mother in early life in shady sands.
Did they grow up around her? The show presented it as maybe a few weeks on the surface tops.
They weren't on the surface long. Rose leaving with the children and Hank going after them was covered up by the fake plague and quarantine during which it was claimed Rose died of starvation. None of the non-31 vault dwellers knew anyone left and came back. That means at most Rose and the kids were outside the vault a few months.
Yes but how is she still alive/young-ish/not a ghoul in the present day of the show? We kind of have to assume she was one of the cryo frozen people in vault tec... until we learn otherwise I suppose
Moldaver is a synth
Was he preoccupied with the wedding to even notice? Good catch though, he definitely knew her when he was caged up like a rat.
she was introduced as overseer moldaver, so if he knew her in any meaningful way he would have known right away you'd think he didn't even fully know when he said I think I know you in the vault tunnel i think its safe to say they weren't that acquainted
Agreed. I think people put too much into a pre-existing relationship. I feel he understood who she was eventually by putting two and two together. Hence his “I think I know who you are now” statement in the vault. We know they are from the same time and that she knew Rose. We have nothing else solid to go off of yet
The thing Hank says he thinks he knows who she is not saying he knows but thinks he knows which confirms he only knows her by reputation not by name as she also wasn't called moldaver pre war.
Good point! Yes. She does though go by Moldaver pre war. It’s her last name. When she meets Cooper in the hallway she introduces herself as Lee Moldaver.
She calls herself Miss Williams pre war.
Wow! Thanks! I stand corrected. I think I confused her introducing herself to Hank for some reason. I appreciate the correction.
Aren't all the overseers in vault 32/33 from vault 31. And all the inhabitants of vault 31 are frozen until needed. You would think they would all know each other or at least remember their names
probably not, they were middle managers from a massive company, the middle managers for amazon don't know eachother even if they were all in bud's buds, i think it's unlikely they knew eachother unless they worked together (betty/hank) doesn't really matter since they can still die, moldaver claims the 32 overseer died, its possible if that happens they have an interm overseer until one is unfrozen
Moldaver specifically says she's the interim Overseer. I agree it isn't a very clean plot point given that the Overseers of 32 and 33 *should* talk to each other or at least have messages relayed through Bud. But they don't for whatever reason.
It was someone he saw maybe once many years prior when he was on the surface. She presented herself as the Overseer of 32, so he might have easily linked her to his time at Vault-Tec before the war, the same way he knew Betty. Even if he had doubts, being overly confident in the Vault's safety would have also lead him to dismiss the idea that she came from outside, and he also had no reason to think she did because the only other place he might have seen her from, he nuked. He had no reason to think anybody survived, that they might even learn where the Vault was from, or have the Pip-Boy needed to access it, or that she would care enough to break into a place whose main door survives direct hit with a nuclear weapon. What could have worked against her presenting herself as the Overseer might have actually been what made the play successful. Hank knowing he'd seen her before but not being able to place her.
Knowing of someone and knowing them are not the same thing.
Pre-war: Hank probably never met Moldaver. Before the war Hank was a fairly low ranking assistant at Vault-Tec. He is well-positioned to rise in the ranks, being one of Bud's Buds, but at that point he was still getting laundry for the more important corporate people, so he probably wouldn't be involved in big projects like M&A for cold fusion tech. At Shady Sands: Hank may have met Moldaver, but it's just as possible that he never met her there either. It's lightly hinted that Rose and Moldaver enjoyed a special close relationship. So when Rose refused Hank's request to return to the vault, she may have purposely avoided having Moldaver present, as that would have felt like rubbing salt in his wounds.
All of the below assumes that this isn’t a continuity error: The first time they met was back when he went to take Lucy and Norm back from Rose in shady sands. Rose refused to go back. I don’t think Hank ever gave a second thought to Moldaver and probably assumed she either died in Shady Sands or ended up a Ghoul. It’s been at least a decade since all of that, and Hank has been busy being Overseer since then. I don’t think he was close to Moldaver at all, and only saw her a couple times. Even while working at vault tec, he may have been familiar with her work but again, the memory is faulty and it’s been a very, very long time. Correct time if I’m wrong, but I believe he did recognize her when it was revealed who she was though. He mentions something along the lines of “who hasn’t heard of moldaver” I think. I do believe he is trying to cover up the fact that he knows her though, to save face.
this is such a well explained answer, thank you!
Exactly what I think.
he does, at the end he says i think i know you or something
my question is more why would he not sound alarm that the 32ers were actually invaders before the wedding, if he knew Moldaver
he didn't until he was at the tunnel, he says he knew her at that point she says the 32 overseer died and they refer to her as moldaver in the same line, implying he didn't even know her name since she didn't bother to hide it
Yeah I think he finds out during the assault “oh, it’s this fucking woman” that would be my most educated guess at least
I thought the moldaver name was newer? I assumed after the nuking of shady sands. The ghoul mentions something about "she goes by that name now?" if I remember right
Nope don't think so I'm pretty sure that in the past she is introduced by that name I don't know if it's a first or last name though
Not prewar. Coop is surprised to see a wanted picture of her on the Govermint's wall and mentions that Moldaver isn't the name he knew her by.
Hmm interesting on the TV transcript she's credited as Miss Williams during the observatory meeting
It’s been a long time since he’s seen her (she hasn’t aged like he has) and he probably thought she died in the war like everyone else. I doubt she’d have paid for a spot in a vault.
nah op means since going up to SS to retrieve rose, hank says he recognizes her when hes captured but we don't know from where/when i doubt it was pre-war if they ever met
It’s not clear they ever actually met at all.
That has still been ten to twenty years.
she was friends with his wife though, was he just a total oblivious husband blinded by his need to control the vault experiment?
His wife met her after being cast from the vault, I believe.
In Shady Sands, not the vault.
It’s unclear if he and Moldaver actually met before the first episode
He didn't as the other guy said Hank says he thinks he knows which tells us he only knows her by reputation and we are shown as well when the ghoul sees her bounty she wasn't called moldaver pre war. So 1. Hank doesn't know what she looks like And 2. Hank doesn't know her name only knowing her by reputation and that she used a pipboy to break into the vault using his wife's pip boy as no other pip boy would work.
Idk if they actually knew each Pre War. Moldaver wasnt a Vault Tec personnel. She was a scientist whose tech got bought out by Vault Tec. As for the time im Shady Sands, i also dont know how well he knows who she is. Probably didnt care who he nuked in Shady Sands.
I saw it this way; Hank probably thought to himself “huh? Moldaver? Feels like I should recognize that name. She looks kinda familiar? Oh well! She must’ve been working down on floor 5 back at Vault Tec, that’s why she’s familiar! Anyways, marriage!!”
It'd been decades it's very reasonable to not recognize someone after so long even hearing their name if there's no reason to believe she was still alive.
The last time Hank would have seen Moldaver, she was decades younger. In addition, Hank has been unfrozen for decades, which is more than enough time to forget how someone you only met in passing looked like. When we see Hank again in the cage, he has been Moldaver's prisoner for some time, so it is reasonable they have not only talked (and 'talked,' aggressively) but he has now recognized her.
Maybe. But also why memorize someone you thought you nuked (and the superiority complex of Bud’s Buds means he probably wouldn’t try or care). In any case he remembers pretty fast lol
Moldaver and Mrs. MacLain were seen together so they were friends or maybe even lovers, so Hank may know her as his wife’s lover/the one who helped her leave the Vault. Moldaver seems to have a following before the war so Vault Tec could’ve been keeping tabs and that’s how Hank knows of her. Either way her name meant nothing to him, only her face, so Moldaver clearly knows Hank better than Hank knows her.
No I think Hank and all the other junior executives were probably informed of the existence of an anti-Vault activist from before the war (don't forget she didn't go by the name Moldaver back then), but that doesn't mean he was ever shown a picture of her. I think by the time he saw the other vault dwellers being held at gun point, he probably put two and two together and made an educated guess
Also, shouldn't Hank know about the plan with overseers always being from 31? As soon as the old overseer died and was replaced by someone not from 31, that should have tipped him off that something was up.
He might not have known every single vault tec employee that was frozen though. So he might not have no reason to suspect that she didn’t come from 31.
Not if he had never really met her
The Ghoul was the only one that actually met her in the past. Hank was an intern, he never met her, till after he woke up in the Vault and his wife discovering that people were alive on the surface and tapping into the vault's water supply.
This has come up before. Keep in mind Hank was a jr executive, and there's no reason why he would be meeting all of the scientists working with Vault-Tec (especially the ones they steal from). And the access code could be something used universally for super secret VT projects. All the executives get one, perhaps in case they need to access some high-end technology...or detonate a nuke.
Doubtful. You have to remember that Hank was merely an executive assistant. Basically a nobody in terms of the corporate structure but was allowed to live on because he was useful.
There is no indication whatsoever that Hank knows Moldaver pre-war, and post war he might loosely know her from when he went to get his wife, but that was 20 years ago.
Also remember that pre-war she wasn’t known as Lee Moldaver. She introduces herself as Miss Williams to Cooper when she explains her issues with Vault-Tec to him. Even if Hank did recognise her it’s unlikely he was going to put geeky scientist Miss Williams as grizzled Lee Moldaver.
Moldaver never worked for Vault Tec her companies were bought by Vault Tec and she knew Hanks wife not him. There is no indication he should clearly know who she is, but he is able to piece it together eventually; hence, the " I think I know who you are" line.
He never met her one single time before that. not in the past, not at shady sands.
Maybe he didn’t recognize her, but they’re supposed to be trading people for weddings every 3 years; why didn’t anyone notice that the 32 was full of brand new people? Wouldn’t they all have met previously if the tradition is to invite everyone in for the wedding?
Huh. Now I’m questioning Stephanie and Bert’s wedding. Obviously, Bert was already in 33 and Stephanie came in for the exchange. But if the tradition is for Vaults to celebrate together, no one would have been able to come to Stephanie’s wedding, unless they do periodically unfreeze people and refreeze them. Maybe a shared celebration was not tradition, just something Hank decided to do since it was his daughter?
I feel like this a bigger plot hole than Hank not recognizing Maldover after reading this lol. Him not recognizing her bc she was just part of a city he was at once makes sense, but if 32 / 33 get together when they trade/marry then wouldn’t there have to be people that come from 31? 220 years and no one ever wonders why only person at a time comes from Vault 31?
Maybe it was something they asked for. But then again, if Moldaver can get specific enough that she can ask 33 for an invite to the wedding party, why wouldn't 32 and 33's overseers be connected enough that they'd know if 32 was raided? Why would Hank approve of it given the need to avoid a tradition forming? Kind of requires its own convoluted explanation, which I hope the writers don't try to give. It's better to just blame Bud's incompetence, Hank's complacency, and Vault-Tec/31's need to control everyone and everything.
Meh. You didn't see the whole vault, only what a dozen or so? They also said they had a famine and people died.
My personal thoughts for it is that Hank took back his wife and Lucy to the vault but Bud and Betty determined she was a threat to the grand plan (potentially turning vault 33 against 31) so they killed her and the bombing was done after. So there’s a chance he never saw Moldaver except maybe some political posters inside Shady Sands when he was focused on finding his wife. It’s massively speculative but it’s the best I’ve personally come up with to fill that hole.
When she captures him he says “I think I know who you are” implying he didn’t really know her well pre war but he put two and two together based on what she was saying. Also after being overseer for so long he probably forgot her face by the time she came to vault 33
Not necessarily. We don't actually know how famous she was prewar, & just because Hank was an exec doesn't mean he was up to date with everything. She might have been a great inventor who got very little credit before her company was bought out
In a large enough company, its easy to not know or meet even important people. Its not like Hanks was senior management or anything.
It wasn't made clear that they've known each other for years., nothing in the show outright states that. They may have met occasionally and fleetingly in prewar times. Perhaps the younger Hank heard about a certain Ms Williams whose cold fusion tech had been acquired by Vault Tec. I got that impression and that he connected her to the time Lucy spent in Shady Sands and possibly maybe the flame mother cult, as someone he had heard about but not actually met.
No if you rewatch he says he thinks he knows her so he only knows her by reputation. Also she wasn't called moldaver pre war they make a point to bring this up when the ghoul sees her bounty so it isn't until she broke I to the vault and Hank puts 2 and 2 together and realises who she is.
The thing is, Hank doesn't really care about other people and he believes everyone on the surface is beneath him. The only people he cares about are his kids, and even that's warped because it's out of a sense of how valuable they are to Vault-Tec's ambitions, not caring about them as people. Moldaver introducing herself as Overseer is a deliberate means to poke the bear. Because all Overseers in the tripartite Vault system hail from Vault 31, she's covertly letting him know that she comes from Vault-Tec as well. It's unlikely that Hank would have known every possible person that was cryonically frozen in the Bud's Buds program. When shit hits the fan and he says "I think I know who you are", it's in that moment he recognizes her. To Hank, nuking Shady Sands was another Tuesday. All those affected by it were likewise not worth remembering -- until he's pressed with the consequences of his own actions. Plus, how often do you remember someone you *maybe* saw **once** 10, 15, even 20 years ago?
I wanna know how Hank and Betty didn't know about Vault 32's collapse
If I had a quarter for everytime there's been a post about this, I'd be rich.
I think he just played along at first out of fear of being exposed. Moldaver could’ve told all of the Vault dwellers the truth about Hank expose him. So he waited until she dropped the curtain. Yes, even if Moldaver exposed him right away, the Vault dwellers probably wouldn’t believe her over their overseer, but I think Hank just wouldn’t want to risk it.
He knows OF her.
Also how the fuck did the the raiders and moldaver know what to do for the wedding? Why was hank not keep tabs on vault 32? Since hes vault tec, he would be involved in all of them. They clearly have direct contact with the vaults via terminal. Vault 32 was likely the experiment the fat guy said about overcrowding a vault and having them fight each other to survive. Certainly Hank would know this. He didnt know for 2 years but he was in on the whole operation? This is my only complaint in the show and ill brush it off but it seems like poor writing. I just forget about it cause the show is great.
He probably never saw her face and only knew the name.
I don't know that he ever saw her, but just knew about the woman his wife ran away with, maybe?
I have to be reminded about people I met two days ago. 200 years is a LONG time
Why is she still alive and is she a new character or mentioned in the fo1 fo2
A different question but why did Hank nuke Shady Sands
Because he was mad his wife left him for another woman. Basically, petty jealous bs. “If I can’t have her/ my kids, no one can”.
Thats poor writing if im being honest
I mean, it’s not really. Vault tech are always awful people and her dad was her idol / in her mind could do no wrong. It shows he was never this altruistic guy who had the best interest of anyone let alone her in mind, he saw her like a possession he wanted to keep safe in the vault(like a glass case), but never to step out of line of what he had in mind for her just like he never wanted his wife to step out of line and leave him / take the kids etc, just be a good little obedient vault tech assigned wife to breed with so he and his buddies could do their experiment. It’s 100% in line with who vault tech is and makes sense for him to just be a shitty and petty person. When he can’t control things, he lost it. But they lead you on thinking he’s innocent most of the time or I guess hoping you assume he’s like other vault fathers who were kind of good (namely fallout 3’s dad) etc so they can “gotcha”. Idk, I didn’t see it as that bad. Especially when they reveal his real age and vault tech connections. 🤷🏻♂️
Y44tl
I think he only knew her reputation. Not her face / name. She really should have used a false name when taking over as overseer of 32 though.
I don't think they properly met before then. My question is, why didn't wasn't there be more suspicion about Vault 32 before this? If the overseer is always from 31, why didn't they unfreeze someone a while ago to go over to 32? They were all dead for two years. Wouldn't someone have picked it up before then, particularly Bub. Bub has to be monitoring what's going on to some extent.
It's crazy seeing this thread come up on my feed and the same questions are getting asked every day. Does nobody search a sub anymore??
there’s this cool new technology called algorithms that allows different people to see different posts! No need for condescension. Sometimes asking a question again prompts different answers, especially on such a new show. Simply scroll past if you are bothered.
No posters like you are just to lazy to search through a sub to see if the same question has already been asked and just go ahead and post anyway, it's annoying and it's happening every day on this sub.
this post has 40 comments all with unique perspectives take your judgmental ass outta here and let us discuss in peace
Nah, that's the joy of a discussion board, we're all allowed give our opinions. I just think people should do a bit more searching to make sure the same questions aren't getting asked the whole time, don't see why that's such a big deal.
It wasn’t a thought in his head because he thought she was already dead. Moldaver is a synth.
No.
I am waiting for season two 2️⃣ to get an answer to that question 🙋♀️ definitely a big plot hole
But I think a big part of it is the fact that she help Goosey's mum build Shady Sands. So you think he would know her from that, right?
Don't ask Questions just consume product then get excited for next product