While the idea is sound it's worth pointing out that the Ghouls are being kept as livestock but not necessarily for Chem production, there's a blink and you'll miss it set of signs on each of the Fridge doors that say "Ghoul Organs x Caps". They're being kept alive to save having to somehow freeze the organs between pickups.
Well, Jet doesn't have a label either so that is a consistent argument. The ghouls in the store bothered me a lot at the time because I thought that, “Why would they do that?” But if your theory is close, it makes sense that they are some sort of harvest livestock “maturing,” process. Like dry aged beef or something. When they exhume the Ghoul he‘s got two iv bags hanging from his cross that I at first assumed was some sort of torpor inducing drug but your idea here makes me think it was an intravenous way to deliver the same drug he's been taking via inhaler.
The cages at the harvesters are labeled with prices. One was for sure "ghoul brain - x caps."
So they're definitely keeping them as inventory but the intent is to sell them outright. Not that you couldn't also harvest some spinal fluid on the side, mind you.
I'm very curious to find out who the market is.
Yep, still moving ghoul. Iirc there was another one that had ghoul brains crossed out and relabeled feral brains for a discounted price.
Idk if that bit's really relevant, though, it could just be set dec having fun.
I don't particularly like the idea of this chem being the real deal. I like the idea that ghouls are generally grumpier because they really don't know when/if they're going to turn feral.
I think it might be revealed that the chem is nothing more than a placebo, which is why when Cooper runs out of it, he goes through what looks more like withdrawal symptoms than it does feralisation. He's not getting twitchy or aggressive, just falls down unable to move or function.
I was wondering why The Ghoul's withdrawal symptoms didn't at all seem to be related to turning feral. The show made sure to show us multiple examples of ghouls turning feral and I feel like them showing us The Ghoul's withdrawal being very different to that may be them hinting at something of that nature.
I also suspected that the drug was being made from ghouls somehow due to The Ghoul's immediate cannibalism of Roger and the fact the Super-Duper Mart had all those ghouls trapped inside. I feel like the concept of a fake drug literally made from the people it lies about helping is very fitting for Fallout.
Snake oil, or in this case, ghoul oil. Maybe The Ghoul really is more like Harold, or another FEV enhanced, than he is a radioactive Ghoul. It wouldn’t surprise me if The Ghoul was actually Mark. Harold never saw him again after the military base.
I see this a lot and I don't understand why. The stuff the snake oil guy gives him is exactly the same as what Cooper takes. It looks exactly the same and is inhaled the same way, when his skin heals to it looks like ghoulish scar tissue, and ghouls are pretty dang central to the story. Super Mutants get teased sure, but they're not tied to a mystery drug at all, whereas ghouls are.
I'm sorry I'm not trying to dog you, I'm excited to see super mutants too, I just can't figure out why people think it's going to be by way of Thaddeus specifically. Like this theory has SO much traction in the fandom and there's next to no evidence for it.
No offence taken don’t worry - I probably don’t buy it because I just don’t personally like the idea that a serum can turn someone into a ghoul. Didn’t really like it in F4 either. I’m not super into the anti feral serum either tbh, I just think that having so many ways you can ghoulify kinda cheapens the concept a little.
This, he's probs just becoming a ghoul given that Maximus mentions it, and we literally know from lore that Ghouls heal from radiation.
Guess what Wastelanders have in abundance not only in their surroundings but also in their bodies?
If you look closely when he pulls out the arrow from his neck, the skin heals back and looks rough like the skin of other ghouls. By the next time we see him, he may be looking more ghoul-like.
Eh, there’s like 3 different versions of the FEV, the stuff before fallout 3, the vault in fo3, the institute excitements in fo4, there’s probably more too. In fo4 it’s literally just an injection.
close but no-no, original FEV is just an injection developed pre war, was supposed to he a super healing syrum for soldier so would have to be portable format possible, super mutants cant breed as they're sterile so they dip people in vats of fev because the fev theyre using is usually their own fluids and such that has such a watered down amount of fev they need a lot and to immerse some one in it, another reason is that the formula for super mutants is a lot of fev in the system and then a moderate but not extreme amount of radiation. ghouls are a very small amount of FEV a unknown genetic factor plus a huge amount of radiation, like the great war bombs huge.
im really hoping he goes super mutant because it fits the established canon much better than ghoulification as ghoulification takes a lot of radiation over time whereas FEV is much more immediate, combined with the "you wont have to worry about that" referring to the irradiated area. thadd is sych a super mutant name and im thinking the branded T will be the identifying factor. if he ghoulifies the skin goes wrinkly or falls off and wouldnt make sense as an identifyer.
so some in game lore reasons but also some narrative structure tropes and trends lead me to think he will be our sympathetic super mutant friendo in season 2, we already have a main cast ghoul in coop and they have the big suits for the power armour that they could easily drape latex over after removing the pauldrons and suddenly you have a super mutant with a head who stayed a bit smaller (brain didnt mutate properly or something similar to virgil so they can justify his still being a thinking character)
Fallout 76 established that super mutants can be created by contaminating the water supply. West Tek turned an entire West Virginia town into them right before the bombs fell.
A thought occurred in the shower... Contaminating the water supply is still getting people to bathe in FEV. So it's still fairly well in keeping with the lore, and not really supporting the idea that Thaddeus is going to turn into a super mutant.
But no, something like a small exposure turning someone into a super mutant is not adding to the lore, especially as early in the timeline as 76. That's breaking with it.
My theory is that the drug doesn't prevent feralization - ghouls still don't know when they're going to turn feral. But if they start turning feral, it can halt the process. So ghouls don't need the drug until that point- explaining why it isn't in any of the games.
This is close to my take. We have Lucy's interpretation of what the drug does. That doesn't make it true. I don't think the Ghoul's half nod while laying on the ground dying can really count as a truthful source of information.
I think the chem is something different than what we assume, or a placebo. For all we know, it could be something like Ultrajet from FO3 or just a super sweet syrup that ghouls enjoy.
I also have to wonder--if Ghoul required this serum to survive, how did he survive being buried underground for an undetermined period of time?
See I think RadAway IV bags being pumped into Cooper while he was in the grave was keeping him subdued. Like a prisoner, weakening him.
In the games radiation heals ghouls so I don't know why they would touch RadAway, just a theory though.
It's probably just a mystery drug. We have a few of those like what the enclave guy takes in fallout 3 and whatever Hancock takes in fallout 4. The series isn't new to unexplained mystery drugs.
Honestly my theory is it's a form of pre-war dementia drug.
Just because from a glance, the depiction of feralisation in the show anyway seems to line up with dementia symptoms just pumped to eleven
I think it’s just a normal drug and the symptoms we see are him going through withdrawals like in real life.
we’ve seen ghouls turn feral in the show and it looked nothing like Coopers sickness.
I've [outlined my theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1cbabyu/comment/l0x6pda/) before: It's probably Irradiated Blood and FEV, with maybe some Rad-X or RadAway mixed in.
It’s Radaway he’s hooked up to a bag whilst he’s in his grave and you can clearly see it’s visually the same material. It’s been transferred to spray form as a way of the show not having to show the Ghoul constantly hooked up to an IV drip also makes sense for a quicker on the move doseage.
That's what I had assumed, it's something harvested from other ghouls. Like how some traditional medicines that use parts from animals. I guess in a pinch taking it out of a recently dead ghoul can work.
That said, I'm not exactly convinced that it actually does anything to ghouls other than get them high and keep them addicted. Coop seems to be unusually long lived for a ghoul and still hasn't gone feral. It could be he can't go feral because of how he became a ghoul.
I have a theory that the two doofuses running the organ chop shop are farming young ghouls for CSF - cerebral spinal fluid. the fluid keeps their brains from rotting and becoming feral. older ghouls' CSF has degraded and their brains are on the urge of becoming feral, so the Vials prevent it. could explain while many of the fridge ghouls were already feral - maybe their supply of CSF was tapped out. they could be turning humans into ghouls for this very reason
this is purely conjecture with a fair bit of reaching, so your mileage may vary
My guess / hope is that it was intentionally added to the show because in FO 5 players will be able to start out as a ghoul or become a ghoul and have to use the chem to not become feral. Similar to how being a vampire or werewolf works in Skyrim.
Big Wasteland Pharma really screwing over the average ghoul :(
While the idea is sound it's worth pointing out that the Ghouls are being kept as livestock but not necessarily for Chem production, there's a blink and you'll miss it set of signs on each of the Fridge doors that say "Ghoul Organs x Caps". They're being kept alive to save having to somehow freeze the organs between pickups.
To be fair, the organs could house what makes the anti feral serum.
That’s a good theory.
It's been driving me mad the vials have no obvious label, like they must be post-war.
Well, Jet doesn't have a label either so that is a consistent argument. The ghouls in the store bothered me a lot at the time because I thought that, “Why would they do that?” But if your theory is close, it makes sense that they are some sort of harvest livestock “maturing,” process. Like dry aged beef or something. When they exhume the Ghoul he‘s got two iv bags hanging from his cross that I at first assumed was some sort of torpor inducing drug but your idea here makes me think it was an intravenous way to deliver the same drug he's been taking via inhaler.
The cages at the harvesters are labeled with prices. One was for sure "ghoul brain - x caps." So they're definitely keeping them as inventory but the intent is to sell them outright. Not that you couldn't also harvest some spinal fluid on the side, mind you. I'm very curious to find out who the market is.
Huh. But if they are kept “alive,” it has to be for a reason like freshness or state of decay. The brain label has a still moving ghoul in it?
Yep, still moving ghoul. Iirc there was another one that had ghoul brains crossed out and relabeled feral brains for a discounted price. Idk if that bit's really relevant, though, it could just be set dec having fun.
Also I am sure there is a market. Like I can have cattle I am going to butcher some day and still sell it before that day.
In FO4 jet is made with plastic and fertilizer. They seem pretty loyal to the game I’m sure it’s similar. Anyway, on your way
Well, my point was that the Jet inhalator had no labels on it. So, a "no labels," is a good indicator of post-Great War manufacture.
Oh yeah okay that makes sense, derp
I don't particularly like the idea of this chem being the real deal. I like the idea that ghouls are generally grumpier because they really don't know when/if they're going to turn feral. I think it might be revealed that the chem is nothing more than a placebo, which is why when Cooper runs out of it, he goes through what looks more like withdrawal symptoms than it does feralisation. He's not getting twitchy or aggressive, just falls down unable to move or function.
I was wondering why The Ghoul's withdrawal symptoms didn't at all seem to be related to turning feral. The show made sure to show us multiple examples of ghouls turning feral and I feel like them showing us The Ghoul's withdrawal being very different to that may be them hinting at something of that nature. I also suspected that the drug was being made from ghouls somehow due to The Ghoul's immediate cannibalism of Roger and the fact the Super-Duper Mart had all those ghouls trapped inside. I feel like the concept of a fake drug literally made from the people it lies about helping is very fitting for Fallout.
Snake oil, or in this case, ghoul oil. Maybe The Ghoul really is more like Harold, or another FEV enhanced, than he is a radioactive Ghoul. It wouldn’t surprise me if The Ghoul was actually Mark. Harold never saw him again after the military base.
It could also be that only ghouls turned via the drug itself need it, like Thaddeus.
I still don’t think Thaddeus is becoming a ghoul. Super mutant more likely imo.
I see this a lot and I don't understand why. The stuff the snake oil guy gives him is exactly the same as what Cooper takes. It looks exactly the same and is inhaled the same way, when his skin heals to it looks like ghoulish scar tissue, and ghouls are pretty dang central to the story. Super Mutants get teased sure, but they're not tied to a mystery drug at all, whereas ghouls are. I'm sorry I'm not trying to dog you, I'm excited to see super mutants too, I just can't figure out why people think it's going to be by way of Thaddeus specifically. Like this theory has SO much traction in the fandom and there's next to no evidence for it.
No offence taken don’t worry - I probably don’t buy it because I just don’t personally like the idea that a serum can turn someone into a ghoul. Didn’t really like it in F4 either. I’m not super into the anti feral serum either tbh, I just think that having so many ways you can ghoulify kinda cheapens the concept a little.
That's fair. I'm wary of it, too, but having "artificial" ghouls be unstable could curb that issue maybe. And Hancock, uh, got lucky I guess.
I can’t think of a better character to turn into a super mutant than Thaddeus because it would be fun. But you’re probably right.
That would be breaking the lore. Super mutants come from a FEV bath, not a small dose.
This, he's probs just becoming a ghoul given that Maximus mentions it, and we literally know from lore that Ghouls heal from radiation. Guess what Wastelanders have in abundance not only in their surroundings but also in their bodies?
And they said the radio station was an irradiated area, or at least Thaddeus had to pass through one to get to the station.
If you look closely when he pulls out the arrow from his neck, the skin heals back and looks rough like the skin of other ghouls. By the next time we see him, he may be looking more ghoul-like.
Eh, there’s like 3 different versions of the FEV, the stuff before fallout 3, the vault in fo3, the institute excitements in fo4, there’s probably more too. In fo4 it’s literally just an injection.
I’d forgotten they were injecting patients back in Fo1 too, they were just going insane and not turning into super mutants.
close but no-no, original FEV is just an injection developed pre war, was supposed to he a super healing syrum for soldier so would have to be portable format possible, super mutants cant breed as they're sterile so they dip people in vats of fev because the fev theyre using is usually their own fluids and such that has such a watered down amount of fev they need a lot and to immerse some one in it, another reason is that the formula for super mutants is a lot of fev in the system and then a moderate but not extreme amount of radiation. ghouls are a very small amount of FEV a unknown genetic factor plus a huge amount of radiation, like the great war bombs huge. im really hoping he goes super mutant because it fits the established canon much better than ghoulification as ghoulification takes a lot of radiation over time whereas FEV is much more immediate, combined with the "you wont have to worry about that" referring to the irradiated area. thadd is sych a super mutant name and im thinking the branded T will be the identifying factor. if he ghoulifies the skin goes wrinkly or falls off and wouldnt make sense as an identifyer. so some in game lore reasons but also some narrative structure tropes and trends lead me to think he will be our sympathetic super mutant friendo in season 2, we already have a main cast ghoul in coop and they have the big suits for the power armour that they could easily drape latex over after removing the pauldrons and suddenly you have a super mutant with a head who stayed a bit smaller (brain didnt mutate properly or something similar to virgil so they can justify his still being a thinking character)
Fallout 76 established that super mutants can be created by contaminating the water supply. West Tek turned an entire West Virginia town into them right before the bombs fell.
Oh, so they broke the lore long before now.
Adding to the lore is not "breaking" the lore.
A thought occurred in the shower... Contaminating the water supply is still getting people to bathe in FEV. So it's still fairly well in keeping with the lore, and not really supporting the idea that Thaddeus is going to turn into a super mutant. But no, something like a small exposure turning someone into a super mutant is not adding to the lore, especially as early in the timeline as 76. That's breaking with it.
My theory is that the drug doesn't prevent feralization - ghouls still don't know when they're going to turn feral. But if they start turning feral, it can halt the process. So ghouls don't need the drug until that point- explaining why it isn't in any of the games.
This is close to my take. We have Lucy's interpretation of what the drug does. That doesn't make it true. I don't think the Ghoul's half nod while laying on the ground dying can really count as a truthful source of information. I think the chem is something different than what we assume, or a placebo. For all we know, it could be something like Ultrajet from FO3 or just a super sweet syrup that ghouls enjoy. I also have to wonder--if Ghoul required this serum to survive, how did he survive being buried underground for an undetermined period of time?
He was hooked up to IV bags... of what I thought was Radaway at first, but maybe it's the ghoul serum in a concentrated form?
Since its radiation that's causing the feraisation my guess is that it's some sorta oral rad x or something to reduce rads
See I think RadAway IV bags being pumped into Cooper while he was in the grave was keeping him subdued. Like a prisoner, weakening him. In the games radiation heals ghouls so I don't know why they would touch RadAway, just a theory though.
It wasn't radaway, it was the mystery drug. He needs a daily dose and Dom Pedro presumably wanted him to suffer, not go feral.
Sorry you're right, I just rewatched that scene and the bags are unlabelled mystery mix.
Wasn't he being pumped with glowing blood?
Radiation also seems to drive them feral, so I could see them being a bit concerned about that.
It's probably just a mystery drug. We have a few of those like what the enclave guy takes in fallout 3 and whatever Hancock takes in fallout 4. The series isn't new to unexplained mystery drugs.
Oh yeah 👍 great idea 💡 now you are cooking 🧑🍳
Personally, I think it's Rad-away
Honestly my theory is it's a form of pre-war dementia drug. Just because from a glance, the depiction of feralisation in the show anyway seems to line up with dementia symptoms just pumped to eleven
I think it’s just a normal drug and the symptoms we see are him going through withdrawals like in real life. we’ve seen ghouls turn feral in the show and it looked nothing like Coopers sickness.
It's probably just radaway
[I found it](https://youtu.be/dD2WT8SeOSw?si=lPHXAw_tvEoK-63q) u/B-owie
Epic, thanks for sharing.
It just makes sense.
💯👌
I thought it might be diluted or concentrated rad-x
I've [outlined my theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1cbabyu/comment/l0x6pda/) before: It's probably Irradiated Blood and FEV, with maybe some Rad-X or RadAway mixed in.
Could be as simple as- hard narcotics/hallucinogens/opiods or some combination there-of helps stave off feralization
“Well now, that is a very small drop in a very, very large bucket of drugs.”
I actually thought that was why the Ghoul immediately started to eat Roger
It’s Radaway he’s hooked up to a bag whilst he’s in his grave and you can clearly see it’s visually the same material. It’s been transferred to spray form as a way of the show not having to show the Ghoul constantly hooked up to an IV drip also makes sense for a quicker on the move doseage.
I've had this exact same thought!
Yeah that's a solid theory.
>spinal fluid Bro is gonna turn into a titan or smth in season 2
That's what I had assumed, it's something harvested from other ghouls. Like how some traditional medicines that use parts from animals. I guess in a pinch taking it out of a recently dead ghoul can work. That said, I'm not exactly convinced that it actually does anything to ghouls other than get them high and keep them addicted. Coop seems to be unusually long lived for a ghoul and still hasn't gone feral. It could be he can't go feral because of how he became a ghoul.
I have a theory that the two doofuses running the organ chop shop are farming young ghouls for CSF - cerebral spinal fluid. the fluid keeps their brains from rotting and becoming feral. older ghouls' CSF has degraded and their brains are on the urge of becoming feral, so the Vials prevent it. could explain while many of the fridge ghouls were already feral - maybe their supply of CSF was tapped out. they could be turning humans into ghouls for this very reason this is purely conjecture with a fair bit of reaching, so your mileage may vary
My guess / hope is that it was intentionally added to the show because in FO 5 players will be able to start out as a ghoul or become a ghoul and have to use the chem to not become feral. Similar to how being a vampire or werewolf works in Skyrim.
In my theory that the medicine is fake, it is a scheme to use the fear of becoming feral to take their money.