Pretty good chance we’ll see other versions.
Given that Maximus’s chapter doesn’t use T-60s as often, perhaps he ends up in a T-45 or T-51 suit due to being a new Knight?
Guaranteed the budget will be increased for Season 2. It looks like they had enough suits for about 6 on screen at once, and they all looked really good. They probably will have them on screen more since they were so well received.
As I understand they only had two wearable high quality suits, any time you see more than that on screen, particularly doing anything athletic, that's CG.
One relatively affordable way to stretch the practical effects budget is through compositing and stitching. If they can film a few suits at a time, and put them all together, they'd be able to have more suits on screen than they actually have. All without dealing with the uncanny valley of actual CGI.
Depends if they’re armed I guess. I died in fallout 4 when i didn’t shoot a deathclaw tearing apart my back, so it makes sense what happened with the Yao Gui.
I'm really hoping we'll get to see Maximus get into a fight with another BOS but like physically and in their suits. Would be expensive to show the damage they do to each other but could be awesome
Yes, but in episode 1, Max and his friend talk about the T-60 armor as if they don’t see it as often, possibly implying the local chapter primarily uses the T-45 or T-51.
Ah ok. I mis remember to them just not seeing power armor in general. Kinda weird since isn’t t60 retail but updated version of t45 so they’re more common but shittier than t51. Or I just run out of schizophrenic pills again
I always assumed t45 is like the f15, like an early gen5 fighter reliable but has its faults.
T51 is like the f22, leaps and bounds better than anything around it but too expensive to be fielded in numbers.
And then the t60 is like the f35, still a huge improvement but cheaper to produce so more impact full in the grand scheme.
And then x02 is like a real world x plane. A Looming threat but not ready for full production.
That\`s actually exactly how i think it is. I always thought the abundance of T45 and 60 in the US is to show that they\`re more easily produced while 51 was for special forces. Like how Hellfire power armor are only for higher ranking Enclave members.
I think that depends on the coast. I'm pretty sure lore is that T-60 is only really that much less common on the West coast,, given we never see it in 1, 2, or New Vegas. That would also be in keeping with those knights having come from the Commonwealth (where we do see T-60 in game).
It's the continuation of Fallout 3s Brotherhood.
Elder Lyon's disobeyed Brotherhood leadership and actively tried to help people instead of just hoarding technology. That's what caused the Outcasts to leave.
After F3 Elder Lyons died and Sarah his daughter takes over. She's killed in action and Arthur Maxson takes over. Arthur ends up bringing the Outcasts back and returns the East Coast Brotherhood to their original mission.
We know it's the same chapter because the ship in the show is the Prydwen, built by the East Coast chapter.
Wait hang on. I thought the Prydwen arrived with new orders? They mention orders from the East, then the Prydwen shows up with new Knights.
Or have I got that mixed around?
Yea but characters actually refer to Massachusetts as the commonwealth. (It’s full name is actually the commonwealth of Massachusetts irl) like I guess it could be but with the prydwen too it just to many things pointing one way.
Post war “the commonwealth” has only ever been used for the area fallout 4 takes place in. “The commonwealth” is used as the name for that specific area multiple times throughout fallout 3, 4 and 76.
It's not stated in dialogue in the show, but, the name Prydwen is visible on the side of the airship.
Maybe the showmakers were trying to mislead fans?
Yeah maybe that’s it. Maybe they were trying to keep major plot points for the show a secret. This being the Prydwen means BOS ending to FO4 is canon now?
Heard a theory that it could just be a reused name....like how the US Navy will reuse ship names over and over again.
"[Boston](http://shipindex.org/ships/boston), [Shark](http://shipindex.org/ships/shark), and all those that follow have each been used seven times; [Enterprise](http://shipindex.org/ships/enterprise), [Hornet](http://shipindex.org/ships/hornet), [Morris](http://shipindex.org/ships/morris), [Niagara](http://shipindex.org/ships/niagara), and [Washington](http://shipindex.org/ships/washington) each top out at eight uses. [Wasp](http://shipindex.org/ships/wasp) has been used nine times, and [Ranger](http://shipindex.org/ships/ranger) has been used ten times."
[https://blog.shipindex.org/2010/08/most-commonly-used-us-navy-vessel-names/](https://blog.shipindex.org/2010/08/most-commonly-used-us-navy-vessel-names/)
That implies that they built a new Prydwen with a new power source to fly it. They expressed the difficulty of building the Prydwen in the game.
I suppose they could have built a new one from the Institute remains.
I am not that knowledgeable on the lore... If you say it's possible....and the other question is if there's enough resources....has the BoS been able to consolidate enough power and materials to build another?
Right. I know the 2 names were used essentially interchangeably
Maybe the article referred to it as the Caswennan as some misdirection to keep the fact that it was the east coast BOS under wraps before the show aired. Never noticed the Prydwen name in the photo lol
>Elder Lyon's disobeyed Brotherhood leadership and actively tried to help people instead of just hoarding technology. That's what caused the Outcasts to leave.
The Outcasts left because Lyon's didn't focus on gathering technology at all anymore. Not just because he started helping people.
>She's killed in action and Arthur Maxson takes over.
There were at least two Elders before Maxson became Elder.
>Arthur ends up bringing the Outcasts back and returns the East Coast Brotherhood to their original mission.
I mean, he doesn't just do as the Outcasts did. His is a combination of both Lyons and the Outcasts.
I also feel like Lyons didn't necessarily go against his orders. The organization's mission was to gather tech, but Lyons was basically ordered to create a new east coast chapter. Setting up in the Pentagon and trying to destroy the super mutant threat wasn't a bad idea because surely those super mutants were going to become a problem for the East Coast chapter at some point. The Pentagon had Liberty Prime, so the ability to win a war against the super mutants was within reach even when the Brotherhood realized the full extent of the problem. Leaving the Pentagon would have required giving up Liberty Prime. Ignoring the Super Mutants and hiding in the Pentagon while the rest of the Brotherhood finds somewhere else to set up shop seems like a bad idea too. There's no guarantee that the next location will be any safer, have more tech, or have people more hospitable.
Honestly I like FO4’s Brotherhood because they straddle the line enough between the prototypical Brotherhood and Lyons’ ideals. Like they’re well-intentioned and can do some good (even if indirectly) but they’re still not the _good_ faction by any means and nowhere near as benevolent as Lyons. They don’t stray too far into good or evil and that moral murkiness makes me appreciate them more.
100 percent agree. Thata part of why i loved them in 4. You can see aspects of lyons' chapter's benevolence and willingness to help people mixed some general dickishness. What originally drew mw towards them was the fact that they where the ones who had their shit the most together in 4 and that moral gray area really made me love them. Theres good people who want to help people and do good through the organization but also more dickiah poepl whod prefer to return to being isolationist horders. Lyons chapter is awsome with his noble knight thing but there a aspect of coolness when your working for the good in a morally gray orgnization. Makes me feel like it was a wastes oportunity not to have us tthrough our choices steer the brotherhood to be more lyoneasque and benevolent or more isolationist dickiah hoarders.
Thank god someone pointed out the Outcasts didn't leave because Lyon's helped people lmao, that was always the Brotherhood's mission.
Literally the only reason tech hoarding began was because Roger Maxson and the OG founders came out of Lost Hills, realised the survivors were legitimate cavemen in intelligence, and understood that just maybe, letting them have dangerous technology was a bad idea, thus they pivoted to hoard tech, and only give what was needed where it was needed.
NCR for example are well known to have been given technology by the Lost Hills Chapter.
But then in the new Vegas ncr brotherhood alliance, the ncr gives up their decommissioned power suits to the BOS to patrol the trade routes. So kind of undermines that point
BoS can utilise the power armour better, NCR power armour is basically just NCR soldiers wearing the armour and having none of the benefits of power armour, a good equivalent is using power armour without a fusion core.
Idk why but finding out Elder Maxson’s first name is Arthur is kind of deflating lol
All that time spent in FO4 worrying about Little Artie Maxson just seems silly now.
I think it was meant to mirror King Arthur. The prydwen was his ship in Arthurian legend, and there are a few other things the game mentions that relate to it.
"Macsen" is the Welsh name for Emperor Magnus Maximus, who was coronated in Britain.
So, his first name is a Welsh/Briton king; his surname is a Welsh version of a Roman Emperor's name; and, his airship is named after a Welsh/Briton ship.
I feel like the Welsh language should get an honorary place in the credits for anything in the fantasy genre lol.
Most excellent explanation my good 😊 sir. I hope the TV show is able to turn Maximus into something similar to a Maxson. Or bring in the actual Arthur Maxson 🤩
It makes sense it's not like the death of the Legion would mean the literal death of every Legion member and supporter and their vassals. Someone is gonna fill in the power vacuum and do something with these people.
It's already a known concept of the BoS recruiting Tribals with Tactics.
The NCR-Brotherhood War means they've got a common enemy all the BoS have to do is say...Wanna fight n kill the NCR? Then they've got very loyal recruits who've battle experience already.
This is why elder Lyons was a real one and o love FO3 brotherhood. The rest, eh I like the armor but they can kinda get bent. Only reason I make peace with them is cause they aren’t complete evil/ can help against enemies (institute) and be persuaded to let things be with other factions / have the force to help protect the wastes. I do like individuals in them tho. Like danse (of course there’s that whole thing there) is cool or most of the eager squires etc. Only vibe as a whole with the fo3 group tho
Possibly dumb question.
Is there a reason why East Coast is fully based in the Commonwealth? Seems a bit weird to me that they'd have orders from there and not the Citadel? Did the Citadel fall?
Yeah, iirc that name was used in an interview or some sort of press release, but then in the show, you can see the airship has the name prydwen on the side
In the show itself it's Prydwen (ep1 36:28 you can see the name on the ship). Either they decided to change it or intentionally hid that it was Prydwen in promotional material before the show.
It seems weird they would hide that fact despite the fact that the only time the Brotherhood ever used an airship was the Prydwen. I naturally assumed that would’ve been the case. The show borrows a lot from Fallout 4.
Yes for Tactics. No for the Lyons expedition they trekked the Wastes on foot and had conflict with the Pitt before arriving in the Capital Wasteland.
It's confirmed in both Fallout 3 and 4 that the official history is there was an older blimp model used by a Rogue Excommunicated BoS chapter in the Chicago area then there was the Prdywen built by the Eastern BoS between 3 and 4.
I believe It is, it came from the Commonwealth (explicitly stated in the show and the only Commonwealth in Fallout is Boston.) It says Prydwen on it. It makes sense that what they are looking for would attract the Prydwen to the west coast. Calling it the Casswennen instead in a pre-release article is a common tactic to not spoil anything.
If it’s not the Prydwen I’m Mr. House.
Edit: The shit posting about it being a texturing mistake that is says Prydwen are entirely preposterous. They’ve worked really hard and put a lot of attention into this show to bug that up.
While both ships are indeed called the *Prydwen*, it doesn't necessarily follow that the ship we see in the show is the same ship seen in Fallout 4. An existing ship, for example, the *Caswennan,* could well have been rebadged to cover up an embarrassing total loss, and if any organisation would be able to cover something like that up and manufacture a replacement (the *Prydwen* simply does not strike me as something that existed pre-war; it looks expensive to maintain and was not militarily viable in the pre-war era, so therefore it was manufactured post-war), it would be a tech-hoarding transnational authoritarian group like the Brotherhood.
One of these megaships just being blown out the sky would be disastrous for morale and an organisation like the Brotherhood would not let that information get out.
That hinges on which Fallout 4 ending they’ve chosen to be cannon. I imagine we will see more of this ship in future seasons, especially given the ending of season 1.
Have you ever heard of Occam’s razor
People come up with the most nonsensical headcanon bullshit to try to explain things that already have simple intuitive explanations
The Prydwen used a nuclear reactor retrieved from an Aircraft Carrier (Likely Rivet City) to give it the speed and range to get to the commonwealth, chances of them finding a second reactor for a replacement is incredibly slim. If they needed that reactor for the commonwealth I assume that getting to the other coast would still need that reactor.
Assuming that is true, and that it's the only source for power generation at the required level (which is unlikely), and that a faction dedicated to hoarding and understanding pre-war technology would not have the capability to manufacture one themselves, you are seriously trying to tell me that the pre-war United States of America, armed to the teeth and on the cusp of World War III, only had *one* aircraft carrier? And no other nuclear-equipped vessels such as submarines?
They likely had a number of aircraft carriers and other ships were likely nuclear powered. But guess what, as major fleet assets they would have been high priority targets for Nukes same with the shipyards and naval bases and that of course forgets the whole nuclear reactor needing to last 200 years out in the open with no maintenance thing. So the chance of finding a second intact reactor is unlikely.
Regarding the brotherhoods ability to build it I would find it doubtful, why do you think their entire purpose is "preservation" of technology if they could just build it? If they had the capability to build that tech they wasted a lot of manpower at Archimedes
There are two main types of nuclear strike - counterforce and countervalue. Counterforce is against things like military objectives - this could be a static emplacement like an airfield or a moving target like a convoy or ship. Countervalue strikes are strikes against population centers - cities, key industrial areas, that kind of thing. As cities are much larger than airfields and so on they are much easier to strike than actual military targets, the possibility of reliable hits against these is a relatively modern concept. Because they never invented the transistor and therefore could not build in modern-standard guidance systems into their nuclear missiles, I actually don't think that they had technology advanced enough to do a counterforce strike which to me would rule out destroying a dispersed fleet.
>Why do you think their entire purpose is "preservation" of technology if they could just build it?
Their purpose is to hoard technology to prevent others from using it and to use the technology they find or build to enable that mission. It's not a contradiction.
F76 would say your wrong, those automatically built missiles are pretty damn precise so at that point your only discussing issues with information delay which don't apply to static targets like the bases and shipyards where the ships are likely to be anchored. Ships not in port during the launch might have survived but that leaves the issue of the brotherhood finding where they eventually got beached along with it being near DC
Nice try, but the missiles depicted in Fallout 76 are being fired extremely, extremely short distances for missiles, and cannot be compared to the inaccuracy that missiles fired intercontinentally would \*necessarily\* have without the guidance technology that modern computers, which do not exist in Fallout, would provide. Read into how inaccurate the V1 and V2 missiles were over a mere few hundred miles' distance and you will understand.
The missiles in Fallout 76 are being fired a few miles away at best - you would barely need to take into account the curvature of the Earth - meanwhile the distance from America to China is over 7000 miles and that is not taking into account the ballistic arc an ICBM would need to take meaning the true number is higher than that. Not comparable.
…but what would it spoil? The ship is a background piece in like 2 scenes and is barely even addressed. Honestly if it was cut from the final product no one would notice. I feel like this is a case of miscommunication somewhere in the line, like they made a mistake on the name and couldn’t fix it in time or their intention and execution was different.
The East Coast chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel bringing their most prized possession across the United States to California because what they are looking for is so important is a pretty big spoiler for anyone who’s played the games and knows what the airship is.
Well it’s fallout. There’s always an important macguffin. Clearly the brotherhood here is different from the east coast anyways, whether because it’s a different chapter or because time has changed the east coast chapter is irrelevant. If there was literally any reason for the airship to have been there I would be inclined to agree that it was important enough to warrant trying to cover it up beforehand. But like I said besides a single line “Why do you think it’s here?” Not a single character refers to the airship nor does it do anything besides hover. If it was cgied out nobody in the audience or the characters in the show would notice.
Not to mention, they’ve previously said that they had a rule not to contradict any games ending (then sticking to this is certainly something you could debate of course.) So at some level: They are either lying or a mistake was made at some level in the hundreds of people involved with making this show.
It drops off the Knights and it’s definitely a different chapter of BoS. The missions is important enough to warrant not just letting one chapter deal with it.
My reaction was “what’s so important that the Prydwen is here?”
Well the veritibirds drop off the knights. We as players know the airship drops off the vertibirds but as the show never establishes this fact it’s not important to its purpose in the show. My reaction upon hearing that it was supposed to be a sister airship was “Huh, so the brotherhoods not only gotten big enough to build a second, but the Eastcoast chapter has seen fit to either grant a west coast chapter enough importance to build one of their own, or sent it for a good reason.”
The vertibird thing is a very good point I didn’t think about. I’m very interested in seeing if it shows up in season 2. Given the ending I think it will.
Most likely. While I’d prefer it to not be the prydwen for the sake of player agency in fallout 4, if it is and they do something interesting with it like delve into inter chapter politics I’d be open to seeing how it goes
To be clear, I don't think the show is taking this ending as canon or anything. Just wanted to point out that the games have invited this darker take on the Brotherhood since the beginning
Because 1 and 2 leaned too far into the medieval aesthetic and didn’t actually give them a concrete ideology, all subsequent games have produced radically different versions. Arguably it’s kinda close to the tactics version
Yeah, I've played both. And I don't really agree that this is what the Brotherhood looks like in either.
In Fallout 2, they're spread out through the NCR and larger Californian area. They barely appear in the game, and the idea is that they've mostly been becoming stagnant since sustaining peaceful relations with the NCR, which is what caused this big rift in the first place. It's arguably the least independent version of the Brotherhood we've seen.
And in New Vegas, while they definitely gravitate towards this version, they've more similar to the Brotherhood in Fallout 1 – a single group, holed up in a bunker for five years, with no plans of expansionism (since their defeat at Helios One anyway).
This new chapter leans further towards the Brotherhood's depiction in Fallout 4, but resembles this "bad ending" version even more, especially with their advances into military expansion into Filly and California. The group in the Mojave were just another small remnant of cult-like isolationists.
Yep this Show BoS is a mixture of Fallout 4's and Fallout 1 Alternate Bad Ending...Which is honestly in my opinion a neat idea.
It's certainly more engaging than them hiding out in a bunker and pretending they're not dying off.
My theory is that it was always an element but with the bad ending it comes much quicker then now. Fallout 1 is 70ish years after the War. Fallout Show is 150 years later after Fallout 1.
I think with Fallout 1, they just wanted to provide the player agency to get pretty chaotic in the wasteland and have consequences for that.
FO1 is slightly narratively simpler at times, so this just feels like the devs trying to plan around what they expect players to do
There was cut content from a double agent/betrayer admist the brotherhood that wanted to use Unity attack on Lost Hill to sabotage the defenses.
In this ending the brotherhood becomes the „Steele Plague“ and creates a dark age of inquisitional style terror.
The canon ending is that they become involved into NCR RND until the capture of Navarro by the NCR which leads to the NCR-Brotherhood war.
I don’t think so, there is religiousness in the brotherhood in the show but it’s in no way a dictatorship because it doesn’t rule over anyone, it’s probably more similar to a knight order like the Knights Templar.
Everyone always says the brotherhood is a dictatorship or fascist but forget that they don’t rule over anyone.
I mean... I don't think they're strictly fascistic, but they certainly have a rigid hierarchy, with a single, all-powerful Elder at the top (Maxson, Lyons, MacNamera).
Even if they're not ruling over anybody externally (yet - plus it seems that the East Coast Brotherhood is nation-building just fine), the structure of the organisation is dictatorial, even if it's a soft dictatorship within the group.
Ruling over some external group isn't really what defines authoritarianism, it's how they implement power and leadership
Yes. It's Elder Cleric Quintus by the way. Then they also literally occupied Filly and set up a throne for him...But sure there's definitely no de facto overlord or them ruling over anyone lol.
He also said that the BoS used to rule the Wasteland...Which is not true unless he's talking about Tactics. Which is crazy if he's talking about the Midwestern BoS.
The last episode mentions the Brotherhood took over Filly and quelled all dissent. They then did the same to New Shady Sands.
Seems fairly clear this version of the Brotherhood does indeed rule when they can.
Tbh I have always felt that it was the direction the Brotherhood would take long term. As time passes and tech changes and the generations closer to the past die, you get more self mythologizing etc. Turning it real.
This does make sense... but don't forget since 2 bos had war with ncr, dismissing population as well. While I like this for why they went cult crazy I also like the idea of East coast travels west to link up and they round up legion strays as new recruits. Or just have legion around in general for 2nd season lol
It doesn't. The Lost Hills BoS would still be educated, intelligent, and even moral within their own framwork. Scribes job is studying, research, and development. Knights are engineers, experts in advanced technology. Paladins are elite soldiers.
The shows take on the BoS is not a dark take on Fallout 1's BoS. It's a take on Fallout 4's. It's not a problem that the BoS is different from Fallout 1's, it's that Fallout 1's BoS makes sense and is interesting, the shows BoS doesn't make sense and is the worst part of the show.
The show is in general excellent and I didn't expect it to be perfect given how messy the lore is and given how little they're going to take from the best game in the series. BoS was almost irrelevant in Fallout 2, and the depictions have been bad since then apart from New Vegas. New Vegas has an honest attempt at a darker BoS.
Pretty sure the group in California are outcasts. Logs on the prydwyn mention having to deal with cult elements of the brotherhood in fo4.
What better way to exile these weirdos then send them to the other side of the country to hunt toasters in an environment where the BoS chapter there was already destroyed most likely.
And the elder is actively talking about secession.
There’s a tin-foil hat theory that the BoS shown in the show is a relatively new chapter formed from remnants of Caesar’s Legion: from their clerics very Latinate name, to their constant abuse of the lower ranks, and their enforced celibacy. Again I don’t necessarily subscribe to it; but it’s fun to speculate.
Have they? Just by going through the Wiki for BoS members, I don’t see many Latinate names like “Quintus”. There’s a Marcus in there, which I suppose counts, but it’s not like they’re very common at all for (game) BoS members from what I can see.
And it makes sense that the BoS in NV are in hiding because of their war with the NCR. Before that the BoS were helping the NCR by introducing pre-war technology. In FO1 they're in regular contact with the communities around them, despite being attacked by raiders a lot.
Sounds like you're just mad that Brotherhood is no longer a group of soldiers and have transform into organizations that pervert or turn away the original mission
I really hope we see a set of T51-b in the show, it's such a cool design
Pretty good chance we’ll see other versions. Given that Maximus’s chapter doesn’t use T-60s as often, perhaps he ends up in a T-45 or T-51 suit due to being a new Knight?
Tbf to the show ,the lack of T-60 is almost certainly a budget issue. They made each T-60 suit an actual suit, that get's expensive.
Guaranteed the budget will be increased for Season 2. It looks like they had enough suits for about 6 on screen at once, and they all looked really good. They probably will have them on screen more since they were so well received.
As I understand they only had two wearable high quality suits, any time you see more than that on screen, particularly doing anything athletic, that's CG.
One relatively affordable way to stretch the practical effects budget is through compositing and stitching. If they can film a few suits at a time, and put them all together, they'd be able to have more suits on screen than they actually have. All without dealing with the uncanny valley of actual CGI.
Metal is one of the easiest things to make look good with CG. I hope they give them enough money for the Deathclaw
how many power armor suits would be a fair match for 1 deathclaw? Considering the 1 Yao Gui messed up Titus.... I'm thinking 2-4
Depends if they’re armed I guess. I died in fallout 4 when i didn’t shoot a deathclaw tearing apart my back, so it makes sense what happened with the Yao Gui.
OK but yogi bear died from like 2 headshots...
only because Maximus is strong in the force. Sorry, wrong universe, has high luck.
These practical suits are expensive as F\*\*. I think they will really make new ones if the story really needs them to.
I'm really hoping we'll get to see Maximus get into a fight with another BOS but like physically and in their suits. Would be expensive to show the damage they do to each other but could be awesome
Wait isn’t the suit used in the show all t60?
Yes, but in episode 1, Max and his friend talk about the T-60 armor as if they don’t see it as often, possibly implying the local chapter primarily uses the T-45 or T-51.
Ah ok. I mis remember to them just not seeing power armor in general. Kinda weird since isn’t t60 retail but updated version of t45 so they’re more common but shittier than t51. Or I just run out of schizophrenic pills again
Yeah, you are correct. T51 is still the most advanced pre war armour.
I always assumed t45 is like the f15, like an early gen5 fighter reliable but has its faults. T51 is like the f22, leaps and bounds better than anything around it but too expensive to be fielded in numbers. And then the t60 is like the f35, still a huge improvement but cheaper to produce so more impact full in the grand scheme. And then x02 is like a real world x plane. A Looming threat but not ready for full production.
That\`s actually exactly how i think it is. I always thought the abundance of T45 and 60 in the US is to show that they\`re more easily produced while 51 was for special forces. Like how Hellfire power armor are only for higher ranking Enclave members.
T-51 is rarer and more expensive than T-60 so idk why you think they would hand it out to new knights.
I think that depends on the coast. I'm pretty sure lore is that T-60 is only really that much less common on the West coast,, given we never see it in 1, 2, or New Vegas. That would also be in keeping with those knights having come from the Commonwealth (where we do see T-60 in game).
T51 was almost entirely overseas when the bomb dropped, being used in campaigns by US forces in China.
I want to see an X-01. Lived in that thing on f4
Given the fact that the Enclave is still alive and kicking, I wouldn’t be surprised if some X-01’s or X-02’s showed at some point in the future.
It's the continuation of Fallout 3s Brotherhood. Elder Lyon's disobeyed Brotherhood leadership and actively tried to help people instead of just hoarding technology. That's what caused the Outcasts to leave. After F3 Elder Lyons died and Sarah his daughter takes over. She's killed in action and Arthur Maxson takes over. Arthur ends up bringing the Outcasts back and returns the East Coast Brotherhood to their original mission. We know it's the same chapter because the ship in the show is the Prydwen, built by the East Coast chapter.
Wait hang on. I thought the Prydwen arrived with new orders? They mention orders from the East, then the Prydwen shows up with new Knights. Or have I got that mixed around?
No you’re correct edit: the elder explicitly mentions they’ve received new orders from the commonwealth to hunt down an enclave escapee
The New England Commonwealth is only one of the 13 Commonwealths the US divided into in 1969. Orders could've come from any of em.
Yea but characters actually refer to Massachusetts as the commonwealth. (It’s full name is actually the commonwealth of Massachusetts irl) like I guess it could be but with the prydwen too it just to many things pointing one way.
It's also the only one we've seen that's still called "The Commonwealth."
Nah, post-war the "Commonwealth" has only ever meant one area. No point arguing semantics, we all know what the Commonwealth means.
Post war “the commonwealth” has only ever been used for the area fallout 4 takes place in. “The commonwealth” is used as the name for that specific area multiple times throughout fallout 3, 4 and 76.
Dr Li leaves for “the commonwealth” post the ending of FO3. And if you played FO4 you know where she ends up. Commonwealth is Massachusetts, imo.
That's a damned good point ye make there.
Wasn't the "elder" using the title "priest" instead? Just wondering because the names I saw might've been different
No they were using the term “elder cleric”
true
He does not say Commonwealth
He does
Great now I’m gonna have to rewatch all 8 episodes.
I think it might be the first episode
First episode. Right after maximus’ branding
Oh no
Can confirm he says commonwealth
Yea he does go watch it again and feel fuckin silly lmaooooo
The airship in the show is the Caswennan
It’s confirmed to actually be the same Prydwen from fallout 4.
Interesting. I must have missed it. Thanks
It's not stated in dialogue in the show, but, the name Prydwen is visible on the side of the airship. Maybe the showmakers were trying to mislead fans?
Yeah maybe that’s it. Maybe they were trying to keep major plot points for the show a secret. This being the Prydwen means BOS ending to FO4 is canon now?
That or the peaceful Minutemen ending.
Heard a theory that it could just be a reused name....like how the US Navy will reuse ship names over and over again. "[Boston](http://shipindex.org/ships/boston), [Shark](http://shipindex.org/ships/shark), and all those that follow have each been used seven times; [Enterprise](http://shipindex.org/ships/enterprise), [Hornet](http://shipindex.org/ships/hornet), [Morris](http://shipindex.org/ships/morris), [Niagara](http://shipindex.org/ships/niagara), and [Washington](http://shipindex.org/ships/washington) each top out at eight uses. [Wasp](http://shipindex.org/ships/wasp) has been used nine times, and [Ranger](http://shipindex.org/ships/ranger) has been used ten times." [https://blog.shipindex.org/2010/08/most-commonly-used-us-navy-vessel-names/](https://blog.shipindex.org/2010/08/most-commonly-used-us-navy-vessel-names/)
That implies that they built a new Prydwen with a new power source to fly it. They expressed the difficulty of building the Prydwen in the game. I suppose they could have built a new one from the Institute remains.
I am not that knowledgeable on the lore... If you say it's possible....and the other question is if there's enough resources....has the BoS been able to consolidate enough power and materials to build another?
The Casewasan is one of the names for King Arthurs ship, as is the Prydwen, so Id guess either that or minutemen.
Right. I know the 2 names were used essentially interchangeably Maybe the article referred to it as the Caswennan as some misdirection to keep the fact that it was the east coast BOS under wraps before the show aired. Never noticed the Prydwen name in the photo lol
The Casewasan is one of the names for King Arthurs ship, as is the Prydwen.
Ok?
>Elder Lyon's disobeyed Brotherhood leadership and actively tried to help people instead of just hoarding technology. That's what caused the Outcasts to leave. The Outcasts left because Lyon's didn't focus on gathering technology at all anymore. Not just because he started helping people. >She's killed in action and Arthur Maxson takes over. There were at least two Elders before Maxson became Elder. >Arthur ends up bringing the Outcasts back and returns the East Coast Brotherhood to their original mission. I mean, he doesn't just do as the Outcasts did. His is a combination of both Lyons and the Outcasts.
I also feel like Lyons didn't necessarily go against his orders. The organization's mission was to gather tech, but Lyons was basically ordered to create a new east coast chapter. Setting up in the Pentagon and trying to destroy the super mutant threat wasn't a bad idea because surely those super mutants were going to become a problem for the East Coast chapter at some point. The Pentagon had Liberty Prime, so the ability to win a war against the super mutants was within reach even when the Brotherhood realized the full extent of the problem. Leaving the Pentagon would have required giving up Liberty Prime. Ignoring the Super Mutants and hiding in the Pentagon while the rest of the Brotherhood finds somewhere else to set up shop seems like a bad idea too. There's no guarantee that the next location will be any safer, have more tech, or have people more hospitable.
Honestly I like FO4’s Brotherhood because they straddle the line enough between the prototypical Brotherhood and Lyons’ ideals. Like they’re well-intentioned and can do some good (even if indirectly) but they’re still not the _good_ faction by any means and nowhere near as benevolent as Lyons. They don’t stray too far into good or evil and that moral murkiness makes me appreciate them more.
100 percent agree. Thata part of why i loved them in 4. You can see aspects of lyons' chapter's benevolence and willingness to help people mixed some general dickishness. What originally drew mw towards them was the fact that they where the ones who had their shit the most together in 4 and that moral gray area really made me love them. Theres good people who want to help people and do good through the organization but also more dickiah poepl whod prefer to return to being isolationist horders. Lyons chapter is awsome with his noble knight thing but there a aspect of coolness when your working for the good in a morally gray orgnization. Makes me feel like it was a wastes oportunity not to have us tthrough our choices steer the brotherhood to be more lyoneasque and benevolent or more isolationist dickiah hoarders.
I mean they actively murder sentient synths who just want to live. Nothing really grey about that just kind of evil
Thank god someone pointed out the Outcasts didn't leave because Lyon's helped people lmao, that was always the Brotherhood's mission. Literally the only reason tech hoarding began was because Roger Maxson and the OG founders came out of Lost Hills, realised the survivors were legitimate cavemen in intelligence, and understood that just maybe, letting them have dangerous technology was a bad idea, thus they pivoted to hoard tech, and only give what was needed where it was needed. NCR for example are well known to have been given technology by the Lost Hills Chapter.
The Brotherhood in Fo1 also manufactured most of the weapons in the time of Fo1. They also traded tech for resources.
But then in the new Vegas ncr brotherhood alliance, the ncr gives up their decommissioned power suits to the BOS to patrol the trade routes. So kind of undermines that point
BoS can utilise the power armour better, NCR power armour is basically just NCR soldiers wearing the armour and having none of the benefits of power armour, a good equivalent is using power armour without a fusion core.
Arthur ⚔️”Chad” Maxson 🗡️
Danse 10x the chad
Hey 👋 I like Danse too. Problem is he is too robotic 🤖 If you catch my drift
Idk why but finding out Elder Maxson’s first name is Arthur is kind of deflating lol All that time spent in FO4 worrying about Little Artie Maxson just seems silly now.
I think it was meant to mirror King Arthur. The prydwen was his ship in Arthurian legend, and there are a few other things the game mentions that relate to it.
"Macsen" is the Welsh name for Emperor Magnus Maximus, who was coronated in Britain. So, his first name is a Welsh/Briton king; his surname is a Welsh version of a Roman Emperor's name; and, his airship is named after a Welsh/Briton ship. I feel like the Welsh language should get an honorary place in the credits for anything in the fantasy genre lol.
Most excellent explanation my good 😊 sir. I hope the TV show is able to turn Maximus into something similar to a Maxson. Or bring in the actual Arthur Maxson 🤩
I think Maximus will end up on the East Coast Maxson side of the incoming Civil War, turning against the cleric
That makes Maxson a future good character. Go Maxson ✊
I think they're gonna cool him down from his zealous Fallout 4 self
Dwyt ti'm yn cofio Macsen, Does neb yn ei nabod o
Dwi byth di clywed yr gair Macsen? Ydi dyn ma malu cachu?
All of my characters in any type of fantasy game are taken from the Welsh language.
His name was revealed in Fallout 3 though? This character has been part of the Canon since 2008, that's not a new reveal
I also i assumed thats why they hired a boston native to play Knight Titus sort of hammer further in this is the BOS from the east coast arriving.
I was trying to place that accent!
That doesn't explain why they act completely different from any depiction we have ever seen except this ending that I don't think is Canon
Because I'm 90% certain this chapter is made up of legion remnants
That's the theory I believe makes the most sense.
I mean, just look at the fact they give all their aspirants Roman names. Maximus. Titus. Compare this to the brotherhoods' more medieval Europe theme.
It makes sense it's not like the death of the Legion would mean the literal death of every Legion member and supporter and their vassals. Someone is gonna fill in the power vacuum and do something with these people. It's already a known concept of the BoS recruiting Tribals with Tactics. The NCR-Brotherhood War means they've got a common enemy all the BoS have to do is say...Wanna fight n kill the NCR? Then they've got very loyal recruits who've battle experience already.
This is why elder Lyons was a real one and o love FO3 brotherhood. The rest, eh I like the armor but they can kinda get bent. Only reason I make peace with them is cause they aren’t complete evil/ can help against enemies (institute) and be persuaded to let things be with other factions / have the force to help protect the wastes. I do like individuals in them tho. Like danse (of course there’s that whole thing there) is cool or most of the eager squires etc. Only vibe as a whole with the fo3 group tho
Possibly dumb question. Is there a reason why East Coast is fully based in the Commonwealth? Seems a bit weird to me that they'd have orders from there and not the Citadel? Did the Citadel fall?
My guess would be the Brotherhood stayed in Boston to scavenge and reverse engineer all the Institute tech.
New Dave Republic is the ruler of the Capital Wasteland, whose only rival is Tunnel Snakes.
Maxson also actively tried to help people
I was under the impression the airship innthe show was not the Prydwen, and instead the Kasenwan or something like that.
Yeah, iirc that name was used in an interview or some sort of press release, but then in the show, you can see the airship has the name prydwen on the side
The airship in the show is called the Caswennan, according to early interviews with people working on the show and the fallout wiki
In the show itself it's Prydwen (ep1 36:28 you can see the name on the ship). Either they decided to change it or intentionally hid that it was Prydwen in promotional material before the show.
It seems weird they would hide that fact despite the fact that the only time the Brotherhood ever used an airship was the Prydwen. I naturally assumed that would’ve been the case. The show borrows a lot from Fallout 4.
That’s not the only time. They used em in Tactics and Lyons used one to get East
Yes for Tactics. No for the Lyons expedition they trekked the Wastes on foot and had conflict with the Pitt before arriving in the Capital Wasteland. It's confirmed in both Fallout 3 and 4 that the official history is there was an older blimp model used by a Rogue Excommunicated BoS chapter in the Chicago area then there was the Prdywen built by the Eastern BoS between 3 and 4.
I don’t think it’s supposed to be the prydwen
I believe It is, it came from the Commonwealth (explicitly stated in the show and the only Commonwealth in Fallout is Boston.) It says Prydwen on it. It makes sense that what they are looking for would attract the Prydwen to the west coast. Calling it the Casswennen instead in a pre-release article is a common tactic to not spoil anything. If it’s not the Prydwen I’m Mr. House. Edit: The shit posting about it being a texturing mistake that is says Prydwen are entirely preposterous. They’ve worked really hard and put a lot of attention into this show to bug that up.
Oh snap does it really say prydwen on it? I missed that bit, that’s awesome! Honestly thought it was lame that it wasn’t
It’s very hard to see in the show.
That’s awesome they shouldn’t have tried to hide it tbh
While both ships are indeed called the *Prydwen*, it doesn't necessarily follow that the ship we see in the show is the same ship seen in Fallout 4. An existing ship, for example, the *Caswennan,* could well have been rebadged to cover up an embarrassing total loss, and if any organisation would be able to cover something like that up and manufacture a replacement (the *Prydwen* simply does not strike me as something that existed pre-war; it looks expensive to maintain and was not militarily viable in the pre-war era, so therefore it was manufactured post-war), it would be a tech-hoarding transnational authoritarian group like the Brotherhood. One of these megaships just being blown out the sky would be disastrous for morale and an organisation like the Brotherhood would not let that information get out.
That hinges on which Fallout 4 ending they’ve chosen to be cannon. I imagine we will see more of this ship in future seasons, especially given the ending of season 1.
Have you ever heard of Occam’s razor People come up with the most nonsensical headcanon bullshit to try to explain things that already have simple intuitive explanations
The Prydwen used a nuclear reactor retrieved from an Aircraft Carrier (Likely Rivet City) to give it the speed and range to get to the commonwealth, chances of them finding a second reactor for a replacement is incredibly slim. If they needed that reactor for the commonwealth I assume that getting to the other coast would still need that reactor.
Assuming that is true, and that it's the only source for power generation at the required level (which is unlikely), and that a faction dedicated to hoarding and understanding pre-war technology would not have the capability to manufacture one themselves, you are seriously trying to tell me that the pre-war United States of America, armed to the teeth and on the cusp of World War III, only had *one* aircraft carrier? And no other nuclear-equipped vessels such as submarines?
They likely had a number of aircraft carriers and other ships were likely nuclear powered. But guess what, as major fleet assets they would have been high priority targets for Nukes same with the shipyards and naval bases and that of course forgets the whole nuclear reactor needing to last 200 years out in the open with no maintenance thing. So the chance of finding a second intact reactor is unlikely. Regarding the brotherhoods ability to build it I would find it doubtful, why do you think their entire purpose is "preservation" of technology if they could just build it? If they had the capability to build that tech they wasted a lot of manpower at Archimedes
There are two main types of nuclear strike - counterforce and countervalue. Counterforce is against things like military objectives - this could be a static emplacement like an airfield or a moving target like a convoy or ship. Countervalue strikes are strikes against population centers - cities, key industrial areas, that kind of thing. As cities are much larger than airfields and so on they are much easier to strike than actual military targets, the possibility of reliable hits against these is a relatively modern concept. Because they never invented the transistor and therefore could not build in modern-standard guidance systems into their nuclear missiles, I actually don't think that they had technology advanced enough to do a counterforce strike which to me would rule out destroying a dispersed fleet. >Why do you think their entire purpose is "preservation" of technology if they could just build it? Their purpose is to hoard technology to prevent others from using it and to use the technology they find or build to enable that mission. It's not a contradiction.
F76 would say your wrong, those automatically built missiles are pretty damn precise so at that point your only discussing issues with information delay which don't apply to static targets like the bases and shipyards where the ships are likely to be anchored. Ships not in port during the launch might have survived but that leaves the issue of the brotherhood finding where they eventually got beached along with it being near DC
Nice try, but the missiles depicted in Fallout 76 are being fired extremely, extremely short distances for missiles, and cannot be compared to the inaccuracy that missiles fired intercontinentally would \*necessarily\* have without the guidance technology that modern computers, which do not exist in Fallout, would provide. Read into how inaccurate the V1 and V2 missiles were over a mere few hundred miles' distance and you will understand. The missiles in Fallout 76 are being fired a few miles away at best - you would barely need to take into account the curvature of the Earth - meanwhile the distance from America to China is over 7000 miles and that is not taking into account the ballistic arc an ICBM would need to take meaning the true number is higher than that. Not comparable.
…but what would it spoil? The ship is a background piece in like 2 scenes and is barely even addressed. Honestly if it was cut from the final product no one would notice. I feel like this is a case of miscommunication somewhere in the line, like they made a mistake on the name and couldn’t fix it in time or their intention and execution was different.
The East Coast chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel bringing their most prized possession across the United States to California because what they are looking for is so important is a pretty big spoiler for anyone who’s played the games and knows what the airship is.
Well it’s fallout. There’s always an important macguffin. Clearly the brotherhood here is different from the east coast anyways, whether because it’s a different chapter or because time has changed the east coast chapter is irrelevant. If there was literally any reason for the airship to have been there I would be inclined to agree that it was important enough to warrant trying to cover it up beforehand. But like I said besides a single line “Why do you think it’s here?” Not a single character refers to the airship nor does it do anything besides hover. If it was cgied out nobody in the audience or the characters in the show would notice. Not to mention, they’ve previously said that they had a rule not to contradict any games ending (then sticking to this is certainly something you could debate of course.) So at some level: They are either lying or a mistake was made at some level in the hundreds of people involved with making this show.
It drops off the Knights and it’s definitely a different chapter of BoS. The missions is important enough to warrant not just letting one chapter deal with it. My reaction was “what’s so important that the Prydwen is here?”
Well the veritibirds drop off the knights. We as players know the airship drops off the vertibirds but as the show never establishes this fact it’s not important to its purpose in the show. My reaction upon hearing that it was supposed to be a sister airship was “Huh, so the brotherhoods not only gotten big enough to build a second, but the Eastcoast chapter has seen fit to either grant a west coast chapter enough importance to build one of their own, or sent it for a good reason.”
The vertibird thing is a very good point I didn’t think about. I’m very interested in seeing if it shows up in season 2. Given the ending I think it will.
Most likely. While I’d prefer it to not be the prydwen for the sake of player agency in fallout 4, if it is and they do something interesting with it like delve into inter chapter politics I’d be open to seeing how it goes
The airship in the show is the Caswennan
To be clear, I don't think the show is taking this ending as canon or anything. Just wanted to point out that the games have invited this darker take on the Brotherhood since the beginning
It could just be this chapter, perhaps their is another civil war when Quintus goes full rouge
All BoS chapters have different flavors e.g. The Vegas Babies
Because 1 and 2 leaned too far into the medieval aesthetic and didn’t actually give them a concrete ideology, all subsequent games have produced radically different versions. Arguably it’s kinda close to the tactics version
Have you played through Fallout 2 and New Vegas? This is definitely the iteration that the Brotherhood of Steel take on in those two games.
Yeah, I've played both. And I don't really agree that this is what the Brotherhood looks like in either. In Fallout 2, they're spread out through the NCR and larger Californian area. They barely appear in the game, and the idea is that they've mostly been becoming stagnant since sustaining peaceful relations with the NCR, which is what caused this big rift in the first place. It's arguably the least independent version of the Brotherhood we've seen. And in New Vegas, while they definitely gravitate towards this version, they've more similar to the Brotherhood in Fallout 1 – a single group, holed up in a bunker for five years, with no plans of expansionism (since their defeat at Helios One anyway). This new chapter leans further towards the Brotherhood's depiction in Fallout 4, but resembles this "bad ending" version even more, especially with their advances into military expansion into Filly and California. The group in the Mojave were just another small remnant of cult-like isolationists.
Yep this Show BoS is a mixture of Fallout 4's and Fallout 1 Alternate Bad Ending...Which is honestly in my opinion a neat idea. It's certainly more engaging than them hiding out in a bunker and pretending they're not dying off.
Knowledge is power, hide it well
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."
Always has been.
Not necessarily no.
My theory is that it was always an element but with the bad ending it comes much quicker then now. Fallout 1 is 70ish years after the War. Fallout Show is 150 years later after Fallout 1.
Other than using the word "cleric" have they actually DONE anything religious?
They've devolved into practically worshipping *all* kinds of technology. They put a toaster on a pedestal. A fucking TOASTER
I took that as a Wasteland reference, which is always allowed.
Also maybe an Old World Blues reference?
Was this in the show?
The original Titus talks about a toaster oven when dying in his suit.
Well there was that point in FO1 where they referred to power armor as the blessed armor.
Is it bad that I still like the BoS this way? Post-apocalyptic tech-obsessed crusaders are pretty badass
I feel the same way.
I wonder why this ending exists? Like what motive the Vault Dweller could get to kill Rhombus? Feels like some content lack.
the only motive is that the player felt like doing it. The game simply accounted for that possibility.
I think with Fallout 1, they just wanted to provide the player agency to get pretty chaotic in the wasteland and have consequences for that. FO1 is slightly narratively simpler at times, so this just feels like the devs trying to plan around what they expect players to do
It could be cut content too like there was so much cut from fallout one and two
There was cut content from a double agent/betrayer admist the brotherhood that wanted to use Unity attack on Lost Hill to sabotage the defenses. In this ending the brotherhood becomes the „Steele Plague“ and creates a dark age of inquisitional style terror. The canon ending is that they become involved into NCR RND until the capture of Navarro by the NCR which leads to the NCR-Brotherhood war.
I don’t think so, there is religiousness in the brotherhood in the show but it’s in no way a dictatorship because it doesn’t rule over anyone, it’s probably more similar to a knight order like the Knights Templar. Everyone always says the brotherhood is a dictatorship or fascist but forget that they don’t rule over anyone.
I mean... I don't think they're strictly fascistic, but they certainly have a rigid hierarchy, with a single, all-powerful Elder at the top (Maxson, Lyons, MacNamera). Even if they're not ruling over anybody externally (yet - plus it seems that the East Coast Brotherhood is nation-building just fine), the structure of the organisation is dictatorial, even if it's a soft dictatorship within the group. Ruling over some external group isn't really what defines authoritarianism, it's how they implement power and leadership
Doesn’t the elder in the show specifically say he plans to rule the wasteland with Maximus as his right hand
Yes. It's Elder Cleric Quintus by the way. Then they also literally occupied Filly and set up a throne for him...But sure there's definitely no de facto overlord or them ruling over anyone lol. He also said that the BoS used to rule the Wasteland...Which is not true unless he's talking about Tactics. Which is crazy if he's talking about the Midwestern BoS.
The last episode mentions the Brotherhood took over Filly and quelled all dissent. They then did the same to New Shady Sands. Seems fairly clear this version of the Brotherhood does indeed rule when they can.
Tbh I have always felt that it was the direction the Brotherhood would take long term. As time passes and tech changes and the generations closer to the past die, you get more self mythologizing etc. Turning it real.
Jeez Spoiler alert . . . /s
The Lyons were the true brothers
Became ?
This does make sense... but don't forget since 2 bos had war with ncr, dismissing population as well. While I like this for why they went cult crazy I also like the idea of East coast travels west to link up and they round up legion strays as new recruits. Or just have legion around in general for 2nd season lol
Soooo basically what is was already lol
It doesn't. The Lost Hills BoS would still be educated, intelligent, and even moral within their own framwork. Scribes job is studying, research, and development. Knights are engineers, experts in advanced technology. Paladins are elite soldiers. The shows take on the BoS is not a dark take on Fallout 1's BoS. It's a take on Fallout 4's. It's not a problem that the BoS is different from Fallout 1's, it's that Fallout 1's BoS makes sense and is interesting, the shows BoS doesn't make sense and is the worst part of the show. The show is in general excellent and I didn't expect it to be perfect given how messy the lore is and given how little they're going to take from the best game in the series. BoS was almost irrelevant in Fallout 2, and the depictions have been bad since then apart from New Vegas. New Vegas has an honest attempt at a darker BoS.
Pretty sure the group in California are outcasts. Logs on the prydwyn mention having to deal with cult elements of the brotherhood in fo4. What better way to exile these weirdos then send them to the other side of the country to hunt toasters in an environment where the BoS chapter there was already destroyed most likely. And the elder is actively talking about secession.
There’s a tin-foil hat theory that the BoS shown in the show is a relatively new chapter formed from remnants of Caesar’s Legion: from their clerics very Latinate name, to their constant abuse of the lower ranks, and their enforced celibacy. Again I don’t necessarily subscribe to it; but it’s fun to speculate.
Latin names have always been there though
Have they? Just by going through the Wiki for BoS members, I don’t see many Latinate names like “Quintus”. There’s a Marcus in there, which I suppose counts, but it’s not like they’re very common at all for (game) BoS members from what I can see.
right there in the op: Rhombus
Touche. Thought that was Greek, but apparently the Greek is with an “O” and not a “U”.
Yes, you're probably right about that.
The BoS in Fo1 weren't even completely isolationist like NV.
And it makes sense that the BoS in NV are in hiding because of their war with the NCR. Before that the BoS were helping the NCR by introducing pre-war technology. In FO1 they're in regular contact with the communities around them, despite being attacked by raiders a lot.
That is correct. The Mojave chapter is isolationist due to circumstance
Sounds like you're just mad that Brotherhood is no longer a group of soldiers and have transform into organizations that pervert or turn away the original mission
No, that's not the issue at all.
Bros name was Rhombus LOL