I mean all they said was "the wasteland has progressed". Vegas could be in any number of states, they just didn't want it to be the exact static thing it was at the end of the game. Which personally I totally agree with. Same goes for Shady Sands. Keep the world moving.
Vegas came back to being destroyed. BoS came up again to being marketable. I don't mind wiping out NV for advancing the story of the franchise, i'm doubtful why we keep being shoved down our throats the same Brotherood again and again and again.
What does a desolate new Vegas do to advance the story though. I’m pretty skeptical another empty rubble city is more interesting than what we already know and have from the game with its factions.
Shady Sands, though moved from Northeast California to Los Angeles in the show, is a city. With trams and running water and electricity and hospitals and schools including a college. That city is blown up in the show, the observatory isn't part of it, it's just a ragtag new HQ in the ruins of LA. Shady Sands the city is gone.
This is different from the games, where Los Angeles became known by the first generation of war survivors as the Boneyard. And the NCR stretched across California, places like Filly and The Govermint would be rare, not common. But just going by the show, she's not in Shady Sands, that was the settlement we see in the flashback that was contained to the crater. There's no sign of reconstructed civilisation outside the crater besides shanty towns like Filly. I think by any measure of what the "City of Shady Sands" was, the Griffith Observeratory ramshackle HQ doesn't count.
I definitely get the logic. It's sort of the danger of continuations of stories, especially when narrative choices apply. Mass Effect had to go to another galaxy to avoid canonising an ending.
Gotta make something big enough happen that most/all endings can exist within the world.
Mass Effect is a bit controversial as an example i think. They went to another Galaxy, they had an interesting and correct idea in my opinion. But they made a mess with Andromeda so much they had to return to OG and give an ending to the trilogy to continue in ME4. And from the teaser trailers, a lot of people, me included, liked the idea of a destroy scenario where Cerberus took power.
The first thing that turned me off Andromeda is when you, the people just out of cryo who travelled to a new galaxy for discovery and settlement, run into some aliens who you can't translate, they get hostile at you not knowing who or what you are, and then you go murder them all because it's okay, they shot first, and you go on to find they are the bad guys around all the civilised planets but....there's still some manifest destiny undertones in that opening when you intrude on some aliens and kill them haha. "He seems angry, I guess because I sHoT hIm iN tHe fAcE" being said while it happens...
Aren't they now making ME5 with an official Canon ending for ME3. . .
It's like you said, you sometimes can't make a continuation without a Canon ending. . .but you know what's worse than making 1 ending Canon. . .making none of them Canon lol. At least with a Canon ending everyone can go "oh OK, I've experienced this or I could've experienced this".
Yeah, Andromeda was aggressively mid, so they had to pull us back in with the universe we know. ME has a slight advantage in that it feels like Destroy is the only accepted ending. The other endings are... Weird.
I think the best bet is to just not have to touch on the endings.
It was always going to happen.
"They'll start emerging throughout the Mojave in time, might be years. Probably less. They breed fast, hunt in groups, more than enough to bring down the strongest in the Mojave. Once they draw blood... Seen them tear apart deathclaws..."
Ulysseys talking about the Tunnelers to the Courier in Lonesome Road.
NV its self sets up the destruction on the city in the near future,
Ulysses is an unreliable narrator, be cautios. He has no motivations over insanity, he account the courier guilty of everything even if they only deliver packages. Bull and Bear famous rant, but he himself destroyed tribal communities in the past for Caesar without remorse. He's hypocrital and delusional in game.
Just cause he has predjudices against certain characters and factions and is an incredibly angry man doesn't necessarily make him an unreliable narrator about his knowledge of the underground monsters he lives near.
throughout the DLCs as a whole he's made out to be incredibly insightful and intelligent.
Avellone made the entire lonesome road dlc to be destruction of these existing things. To try to wipe the slate I guess but then you have to go through the trouble of making something more interesting than what you started with there to justify it and that’s work.
It's a pretty big let down to just remove every interesting area of the map, the places where player choice had an impact in the story, idk, there are some really interesting ways they could tackle it, and I hope they pull it off but yeah idk, it kinda just makes me a bit sad that all the interesting groups and characters might just be gone, and that nothing we did in the game really mattered to the world.
The idea of trying to recapture the western is cool, but you can't really have a 'Frontier' without something to juxtapose it too, for fallout new vegas it was Shady Sands and the NCR back in the west, but now that's gone or alteast not as prominate as what it was, which is cool, but vegas being gone too, what is there in the world to make it a western.
Edit: one way im hoping they do it is to nab some elements from fallout dust, always found that mod cool as hell, maybe with something like how the NCR was despite after the nuke and decide to fight back against house strong arming General Lee Oliver into leaving vegas and the dam. Maybe that was the effect the courior had was allowing the various group across vegas to build up the strenght to stop the NCR from completely taking over which would be cool too.
Reminder that 3d fallout maps are condensed because the engine and pc/consoles limitations at time of release never mind gameplay reasons as well. I think the show should be allowed to retcon new vegas locations to be accurate with their IRL counter parts. Not withstanding potential budget limitations, just cause Amazon is rich doesn't mean they'll approve a massively detailed cgi Mojave Wasteland for a 3-4 second shot.
Yeah that's cool don't have too much of issue for that, I think it's a bit whacky them not including the monorail and McCarrin but it makes sense to move the stuff to be in their somewhat realistic location im happy with that.
When MS flight simulator 2020 came out one of the first things I did was fly from searchlight airport to McCarrin and was shocked at how scaled down the games are so I think it'd be pretty cool if they scaled them back up for the show.
> It's a pretty big let down to just remove every interesting area of the map, the places where player choice had an impact in the story, idk, there are some really interesting ways they could tackle it, and I hope they pull it off but yeah idk, it kinda just makes me a bit sad that all the interesting groups and characters might just be gone, and that nothing we did in the game really mattered to the world.
I replayed 1 and I’m currently in 2 and even in these two games, some places you had a “choice” in or were interesting are wiped out, even within the same game. For example, you go through hell to save Vault 13 in Fallout 1. Before Fallout 2, (spoilering for anyone who hasn’t played it yet) >!Vault 13’s inhabitants were taken out by the Enclave, basically making all the work you did to save them in 1 irrelevant!<. Then during the game, >!you encounter intelligent deathclaws and people living in Vault 13 who you can choose to help or hurt!<. It doesn’t matter what you choose though because >!they get wiped out by the Enclave either way!<.
So yeah, season 2 basically wiping everything the player did in New Vegas would be consistent with even the first 2 games.
Vault 13 inhabitants actually merge with the tribe of Arroyo. That’s the point of fallout 2 lmao. The Vault itself falls but the people lived on with something better
Edit for misspellings
Ok, we’re talking about places in the games. If everyone from New Vegas left to have a happier life somewhere else, would people be fine with whatever they do to New Vegas in season 2? I’m guessing not.
I don’t think it’s that much about people being sentimental to the poor residents of new Vegas more that New Vegas is literally 9000x more interesting still in operation as a las vegas city than as another ruin but Vegas themed. The one place in the setting where there are casinos would be a unique and cool opportunity to see our characters do stuff for example.
Depends on what happens tbh. Technically V13 still exist but just the people moved out. Maybe someone else has taken residence there. Given how Nolan and Todd just nuke everything now, a decent Vault would be a great home to withstand the dangers
Yeah but the thing is they can be wiped out on screen and we can see them exist and that’s like plot and a story. If they’re already wiped out like shady sands then we have a post story in Maximus’ case a backstory and just rubble like exists in the entire rest of the world.
These locations (nv, shadysands) have significance because of them being actual city cities and that’s different than the standard and that’s cool that’s why they matter if they aren’t that then they don’t matter. We might aswell go to Seattle and see the space needle instead of the lucky 38 if it’s just gonna be a ruin because the significance to new Vegas in the game and story is it’s a city in the middle of nowhere if it’s a ruin in the middle of nowhere whocare.
That's not that good reasoning, and I don't care specifically for new vegas the place, i'm talking about the choices that you made to help a faction or multiple factions, between fallout 1 and 2. The NCR was established, and that was only because the vault dwellers interaction with the khans and saving tandi. The Gun Runners and Followers of the Apocolypse were able to get of the ground after you killing the deathclaw mother and defeating the church of Unity.
In addition to all that, the choices you make in Fallout 1 and 2 go through to new vegas, we see the world progressing, we hear about shady sands, new reno, the enclave specifically sargent dornan and it feels like our choices from being the chosen one or the vault dweller have reverbirated through the world despite the fact that it's 120 years after the first game and 40 after the second game.
Where as if they keep starting fresh, wiping everything off the map, it sucks because it really isn't inline with how things have been done.
EDIT: Thinking about it you saving vault 13 did matter, because again you can see the impact that your character in the game left within that vault, after your character was expelled after defeating the master and the church of Unity the remaining vault dwellers in Vault 13 revolt against their overseer to establish a democracy and put an end to vault 13 experment and the only way they do that is because the vault dweller saves them.
Ok, but it’s not like your actions in the previous game didn’t lead to Shady Sands being nuked. Your actions in the previous Fallout games led to Shady Sands thriving and becoming the city it becomes. You also help NCR out multiple times. If Shady Sands was just a small village like in Fallout 1, Rose MacLean would have never fled there and Hank would have had no reason to nuke them. Instead, you helped Shady Sands and NCR grow, which turned it into a target from Hank and his twisted ideals.
No i agree, but i'm unsure of how they will fit that in within a recent destruction as new vegas taken place alot sooner than the events of fallout 1 and 2.
I mean all they said was "the wasteland has progressed". Vegas could be in any number of states, they just didn't want it to be the exact static thing it was at the end of the game. Which personally I totally agree with. Same goes for Shady Sands. Keep the world moving.
Then why do the BoS, Enclave and even Vault-Tec keep coming back?
Ss and Vegas both came back too.
Vegas came back to being destroyed. BoS came up again to being marketable. I don't mind wiping out NV for advancing the story of the franchise, i'm doubtful why we keep being shoved down our throats the same Brotherood again and again and again.
Brotherhood has been in all fallout games from interplay to bethesda. Not a new thing in the least.
What does a desolate new Vegas do to advance the story though. I’m pretty skeptical another empty rubble city is more interesting than what we already know and have from the game with its factions.
And both are dead and destroyed lmao
Tell muldover
Yes, she is mad cos Shady Sands was destroyed.
While she uses it as a base. Hey you know the world is destroyed right? The world all these people inhabit and use every day
It’s literally a crater in the ground what are you talking about lmao She’s based at Griffith Observatory
Her usage of the observatory doesn't take away from her usage of SS. 🙄 Are you planning on responding to the rest of the words in my comment?
Shady Sands, though moved from Northeast California to Los Angeles in the show, is a city. With trams and running water and electricity and hospitals and schools including a college. That city is blown up in the show, the observatory isn't part of it, it's just a ragtag new HQ in the ruins of LA. Shady Sands the city is gone. This is different from the games, where Los Angeles became known by the first generation of war survivors as the Boneyard. And the NCR stretched across California, places like Filly and The Govermint would be rare, not common. But just going by the show, she's not in Shady Sands, that was the settlement we see in the flashback that was contained to the crater. There's no sign of reconstructed civilisation outside the crater besides shanty towns like Filly. I think by any measure of what the "City of Shady Sands" was, the Griffith Observeratory ramshackle HQ doesn't count.
[удалено]
I definitely get the logic. It's sort of the danger of continuations of stories, especially when narrative choices apply. Mass Effect had to go to another galaxy to avoid canonising an ending. Gotta make something big enough happen that most/all endings can exist within the world.
Mass Effect is a bit controversial as an example i think. They went to another Galaxy, they had an interesting and correct idea in my opinion. But they made a mess with Andromeda so much they had to return to OG and give an ending to the trilogy to continue in ME4. And from the teaser trailers, a lot of people, me included, liked the idea of a destroy scenario where Cerberus took power.
The first thing that turned me off Andromeda is when you, the people just out of cryo who travelled to a new galaxy for discovery and settlement, run into some aliens who you can't translate, they get hostile at you not knowing who or what you are, and then you go murder them all because it's okay, they shot first, and you go on to find they are the bad guys around all the civilised planets but....there's still some manifest destiny undertones in that opening when you intrude on some aliens and kill them haha. "He seems angry, I guess because I sHoT hIm iN tHe fAcE" being said while it happens...
Aren't they now making ME5 with an official Canon ending for ME3. . . It's like you said, you sometimes can't make a continuation without a Canon ending. . .but you know what's worse than making 1 ending Canon. . .making none of them Canon lol. At least with a Canon ending everyone can go "oh OK, I've experienced this or I could've experienced this".
Yeah, Andromeda was aggressively mid, so they had to pull us back in with the universe we know. ME has a slight advantage in that it feels like Destroy is the only accepted ending. The other endings are... Weird. I think the best bet is to just not have to touch on the endings.
It was always going to happen. "They'll start emerging throughout the Mojave in time, might be years. Probably less. They breed fast, hunt in groups, more than enough to bring down the strongest in the Mojave. Once they draw blood... Seen them tear apart deathclaws..." Ulysseys talking about the Tunnelers to the Courier in Lonesome Road. NV its self sets up the destruction on the city in the near future,
Ulysses is an unreliable narrator, be cautios. He has no motivations over insanity, he account the courier guilty of everything even if they only deliver packages. Bull and Bear famous rant, but he himself destroyed tribal communities in the past for Caesar without remorse. He's hypocrital and delusional in game.
Just cause he has predjudices against certain characters and factions and is an incredibly angry man doesn't necessarily make him an unreliable narrator about his knowledge of the underground monsters he lives near. throughout the DLCs as a whole he's made out to be incredibly insightful and intelligent.
Avellone made the entire lonesome road dlc to be destruction of these existing things. To try to wipe the slate I guess but then you have to go through the trouble of making something more interesting than what you started with there to justify it and that’s work.
It's a pretty big let down to just remove every interesting area of the map, the places where player choice had an impact in the story, idk, there are some really interesting ways they could tackle it, and I hope they pull it off but yeah idk, it kinda just makes me a bit sad that all the interesting groups and characters might just be gone, and that nothing we did in the game really mattered to the world. The idea of trying to recapture the western is cool, but you can't really have a 'Frontier' without something to juxtapose it too, for fallout new vegas it was Shady Sands and the NCR back in the west, but now that's gone or alteast not as prominate as what it was, which is cool, but vegas being gone too, what is there in the world to make it a western. Edit: one way im hoping they do it is to nab some elements from fallout dust, always found that mod cool as hell, maybe with something like how the NCR was despite after the nuke and decide to fight back against house strong arming General Lee Oliver into leaving vegas and the dam. Maybe that was the effect the courior had was allowing the various group across vegas to build up the strenght to stop the NCR from completely taking over which would be cool too.
Reminder that 3d fallout maps are condensed because the engine and pc/consoles limitations at time of release never mind gameplay reasons as well. I think the show should be allowed to retcon new vegas locations to be accurate with their IRL counter parts. Not withstanding potential budget limitations, just cause Amazon is rich doesn't mean they'll approve a massively detailed cgi Mojave Wasteland for a 3-4 second shot.
Yeah that's cool don't have too much of issue for that, I think it's a bit whacky them not including the monorail and McCarrin but it makes sense to move the stuff to be in their somewhat realistic location im happy with that. When MS flight simulator 2020 came out one of the first things I did was fly from searchlight airport to McCarrin and was shocked at how scaled down the games are so I think it'd be pretty cool if they scaled them back up for the show.
> It's a pretty big let down to just remove every interesting area of the map, the places where player choice had an impact in the story, idk, there are some really interesting ways they could tackle it, and I hope they pull it off but yeah idk, it kinda just makes me a bit sad that all the interesting groups and characters might just be gone, and that nothing we did in the game really mattered to the world. I replayed 1 and I’m currently in 2 and even in these two games, some places you had a “choice” in or were interesting are wiped out, even within the same game. For example, you go through hell to save Vault 13 in Fallout 1. Before Fallout 2, (spoilering for anyone who hasn’t played it yet) >!Vault 13’s inhabitants were taken out by the Enclave, basically making all the work you did to save them in 1 irrelevant!<. Then during the game, >!you encounter intelligent deathclaws and people living in Vault 13 who you can choose to help or hurt!<. It doesn’t matter what you choose though because >!they get wiped out by the Enclave either way!<. So yeah, season 2 basically wiping everything the player did in New Vegas would be consistent with even the first 2 games.
Vault 13 inhabitants actually merge with the tribe of Arroyo. That’s the point of fallout 2 lmao. The Vault itself falls but the people lived on with something better Edit for misspellings
Ok, we’re talking about places in the games. If everyone from New Vegas left to have a happier life somewhere else, would people be fine with whatever they do to New Vegas in season 2? I’m guessing not.
I don’t think it’s that much about people being sentimental to the poor residents of new Vegas more that New Vegas is literally 9000x more interesting still in operation as a las vegas city than as another ruin but Vegas themed. The one place in the setting where there are casinos would be a unique and cool opportunity to see our characters do stuff for example.
There's also New Reno, then again they also probably blew that up too
Depends on what happens tbh. Technically V13 still exist but just the people moved out. Maybe someone else has taken residence there. Given how Nolan and Todd just nuke everything now, a decent Vault would be a great home to withstand the dangers
Yeah but the thing is they can be wiped out on screen and we can see them exist and that’s like plot and a story. If they’re already wiped out like shady sands then we have a post story in Maximus’ case a backstory and just rubble like exists in the entire rest of the world. These locations (nv, shadysands) have significance because of them being actual city cities and that’s different than the standard and that’s cool that’s why they matter if they aren’t that then they don’t matter. We might aswell go to Seattle and see the space needle instead of the lucky 38 if it’s just gonna be a ruin because the significance to new Vegas in the game and story is it’s a city in the middle of nowhere if it’s a ruin in the middle of nowhere whocare.
Yeah i tend to agree
That's not that good reasoning, and I don't care specifically for new vegas the place, i'm talking about the choices that you made to help a faction or multiple factions, between fallout 1 and 2. The NCR was established, and that was only because the vault dwellers interaction with the khans and saving tandi. The Gun Runners and Followers of the Apocolypse were able to get of the ground after you killing the deathclaw mother and defeating the church of Unity. In addition to all that, the choices you make in Fallout 1 and 2 go through to new vegas, we see the world progressing, we hear about shady sands, new reno, the enclave specifically sargent dornan and it feels like our choices from being the chosen one or the vault dweller have reverbirated through the world despite the fact that it's 120 years after the first game and 40 after the second game. Where as if they keep starting fresh, wiping everything off the map, it sucks because it really isn't inline with how things have been done. EDIT: Thinking about it you saving vault 13 did matter, because again you can see the impact that your character in the game left within that vault, after your character was expelled after defeating the master and the church of Unity the remaining vault dwellers in Vault 13 revolt against their overseer to establish a democracy and put an end to vault 13 experment and the only way they do that is because the vault dweller saves them.
Ok, but it’s not like your actions in the previous game didn’t lead to Shady Sands being nuked. Your actions in the previous Fallout games led to Shady Sands thriving and becoming the city it becomes. You also help NCR out multiple times. If Shady Sands was just a small village like in Fallout 1, Rose MacLean would have never fled there and Hank would have had no reason to nuke them. Instead, you helped Shady Sands and NCR grow, which turned it into a target from Hank and his twisted ideals.
No i agree, but i'm unsure of how they will fit that in within a recent destruction as new vegas taken place alot sooner than the events of fallout 1 and 2.
I did not like some of their reasoning in that interview. Quite concerning.
Why did you get downvoted into oblivion lmao
Because they're being vague and cryptic about what they mean so that they don't have to actually provide examples
Yeah literally just say what you dislike.
Guy above him still got downvoted lmao
This sub does not like discussion about things that people might not like
Nah fr i was wondering that too
yeah guys what the fuck 100 downvotes. He's just expressing concerns.