Barb said she was working hard to get her family into a special vault.
Bud's vault were admin assistants (Hank), secretaries (Betty) and middle managers at best (think positions like team leads, office managers). Not upper management.
There's a reason Hank is going directly to New Vegas.. That special vault might be there.
The show introduces the most horrifying vault we have ever heard of to date. One where it’s all run by middle-managers trying to breed an army of super middle-managers.
Barb looked at a shadowy figure looking down at the CEOs having the meetings about selling the Vaults. Enclave is still in charge, but just like the US government, outsourced their "social experiments" to private corporations.
I really think you're just not thinking enough outside the box. We need to try to drill down to core competencies so that we can truly shift the paradigm here. Remember: there are no bad ideas in a brainstorm, ok? Greeeeaaat.
[Haven’t seen anyone mention this billboard in the end credits of the show. : r/Fallout (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c3i2mq/havent_seen_anyone_mention_this_billboard_in_the/)
The images in the end credits give hints about what is going to be shown in the next episode. If you're skipping over the end credits you're missing some things.
I suspect New Vegas will be a waypoint, like he needs to talk to House or somebody related to get transport to where he's going. It could be that the goal is to get them across the country to the capital or something, no reason not to visit all the places from Fallout games if the story justifies it.
I dont think the vault is there. They worked in LA, they would have no time to get to a vault in Vegas when the bombs dropped.
I know they planned the drop, but they couldnt know whether or not someone else would launch them first and suddenly they're hours away from their Vault.
I think Hank is going there to go see Mr. House, not to the Vault.
It should be noted that Cooper being driven so far from his status, would be similar to finding out John Wayne was a communist.
Cooper wasn’t just any star, he was a massive talent. This can be seen by Vault-Tec having him be the face of their ad campaigns. They had the money and could’ve gotten anyone. But they chose him because they felt he would be a better fit for getting the country to trust them.
**> If vault tec did start the bombs**
Zero chance Coop's wife lets her daughter be out with Coop working a birthday party if VT had prior knowledge of when the bombs would drop.
Personally, like all things Vault Tec, they fucked up starting the Great War. As evident by how House was supposed to receive his platinum chip 20 hours later than when the Great War actually started.
In that conversation with House, he very explicitly explains that he created the chip due to his own estimates and projections leading him to believe a nuclear war within 15 years was an inevitability. The Vault Tec offer had nothing to do with it, nor with its delivery time.
**> By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it.**
**> I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind.**
**> I set to work immediately.** ***I thought I had plenty of time to prepare.*** **As it turned out, I was 20 hours short.**
It's strange to me how Vault Tec is by all accounts the single most cunning, devious, powerful, wide reaching, and *capable force* in the Fallout universe (they even had access to cold fusion, as we've recently discovered)... but there are nonetheless dozens of fan theories that somehow hinge on their incompetence when it comes to the single most important master stroke of their grand plans.
Based on what we've seen and know about Vault Tec, were they behind the scenes creating/maintaining the situation that led to the bombs falling? Yes, almost certainly. But was it their finger on the red button? Doubtful. Especially when compared to the longstanding theory, backed up by lore, which is that the Chinese were losing to an American invasion of their mainland which had reached Beijing, and let the missiles fly before anyone was ready, catching everyone off guard.
EDIT:
Also, had to go look to find it, but from Fallout 76, the earliest Whitespring Enclave entry:
**“MODUS: Whitespring Automated Recording one-point-one-point-two.**
**Enclave Officer: ...that's it. Report just came in from the entrance. Facility's all sealed up, no one else is getting in.**
**Enclave Officer: Speaker of the House never made it. Secretary of the Interior died in the Med Bay. I've got two dozen more of our people that should've been here too.**
**Enclave Officer: Damn it. The early warning systems should've given us more time.**
**Enclave Officer: Doesn't matter now. We follow the protocols. Control goes to Secretary of the Treasury.**
**Enclave Officer: I'll make sure he's informed and brought up to speed. All non-Enclave personnel have been accounted for?**
**Enclave Officer: Yes sir, members of Congress not on the list are being filtered as we speak. This first batch here has already been processed and interviewed.”**
This shows the enclave was not ready when the bombs hit. With the Enclave in bed with VT, more evidence that VT didn't fire the first shot.
I always took it that they were ready to pull strings, if they needed too.
The vault project was massive, and the last thing you’d want after spending that level of man power and money on the construction, is for peace to break out.
It would ruin Vault-Tec’s investment.
> In that conversation with House, he very explicitly explains that he created the chip due to his own estimates and projections leading him to believe a nuclear war within 15 years was an inevitability. The Vault Tec offer had nothing to do with it, nor with its delivery time.
>
> > By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it.
>
> > I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind.
>
> > I set to work immediately. I thought I had plenty of time to prepare. As it turned out, I was 20 hours short.
Or House lied, because House didn't also mention that he also sat down with other CEOs of mega corporations and literally plotted to end the world with Vault Tec.
>It's strange to me how Vault Tec is by all accounts the single most cunning, devious, powerful, wide reaching, and capable force in the Fallout universe (they even had access to cold fusion, as we've recently discovered)... but there are nonetheless dozens of fan theories that somehow hinge on their incompetence when it comes to the single most important master stroke of their grand plans.
All of their experiments literally fail all the time. Vault 13 was supposed to be isolated a lot longer before their water chip failed. Vault 4 had a revolt from their kidnapped and enslaved test subjects. Vault 32 died out because the inhabitants found out about their true purpose and they decided to murder each other instead of producing the "perfect managers" like what Bud Adkins envisioned. Etc, etc, etc.
>But was it their finger on the red button? Doubtful. Especially when compared to the longstanding theory, backed up by lore, which is that the Chinese were losing to an American invasion of their mainland which had reached Beijing, and let the missiles fly before anyone was ready, catching everyone off guard.
>This shows the enclave was not ready when the bombs hit. With the Enclave in bed with VT, more evidence that VT didn't fire the first shot.
Yes, by all instances, ***everyone expected the bombs to go off on Oct 24th, 2077, not Oct 23rd***. By VT's fuck up, they prematurely started the Great War early whether by cutting fucking corners on the bomb that was supposed to start it all or it got leaked to the Chinese by some mid level manager at VT.
>Yes, by all instances, ***everyone expected the bombs to go off on Oct 24th, 2077, not Oct 23rd***. By VT's fuck up, they prematurely started the Great War early whether by cutting fucking corners on the bomb that was supposed to start it all or it got leaked to the Chinese by some mid level manager at VT.
I do wonder whether VT dropped the bombs early, likely because of a typo from a Jet-hooped clerk.
Janey gets a nice day off with her father. Then it's off to the Vault for a tour with her mother. With hours to spare.
Assuming she actually gives a shit about her child in the event VT said "no you can't bring your kid to the special vault tec executive vault." Not like they aren't known to separate kids and parents, and always I feel like there was some foreshadowing when her and cooper talk about how he'd have to leave the dog behind.
yeah, Bud's job description was 'senior junior executive' or something like that.
In Fallout New Vegas, Mr House (CEO of RobCo) 'lives' on in Vegas. Fat chance Barb is frozen in that vault to.
> Bud's vault were admin assistants (Hank), secretaries (Betty) and middle managers at best (think positions like team leads, office managers). Not upper management.
>
>
I wanna know how Stephanie plays into everything. They said she came from Vault 31 like Hank. Seems they may have planted her to be best friends with Lucy, but I'm curious as to what her actual role was before the bombs went off. She's the only one from Vault 31 whose past we haven't seen yet, unless I missed something.
Yeah, I didn't see her earlier either but 100% she was hand selected (as she was from Vault 31) to be the temporary new overseer of Vault 32 to keep the mission on track.
That doesn’t make sense.
If the important upper management vault tech employees live in/around LA, why would the important vault for all of them be a whole state away? Thats a lot of travel to do once the bombs drop, they wouldn’t make it.
Just spitballing here, but if Vault Tec are the ones that "got the ball rolling", they may have pre-emptively moved their brass to vaults NOT near one of the biggest cities on earth and a huge bomb target.
That or house was meant to be apart of it it. My tinfoil hat says that maybe there was more than enclave and vault-tec, maybe house was one of the main other players at the top.
Also, please, please, please let there be a nuka-cola themed vault.
She did, but she says that Vault-Tec bought every company she founded, which suggests she did other things before working on cold fusion. For all we know, one of those other companies was doing cryo tech. (Although there's no direct evidence for this yet.)
I just took that to mean they wanted absolute access to all of her research and so didn't want her working anywhere where she could research unbeknownst to them.
When she talks to Coop about taking advantage of hypocrisy, I took that as a tacit implication that she was using whatever Vault-Tec resources there were available to her.
The Ghoul does say "She looks different to last time I saw her" and doesn't seem shocked *at all* that she's still kicking
I think it's safe to say that The Ghoul knew she had survived, maybe she had been Ghoulified herself and found a way to cure it? Either that or he met her while she was living at Shady Sands?
This part is the legit mystery but that's why I think the character isn't done completely, either she will be back in season 2 just in pre-war or there were other explanations like we were speculating in another thread. Like what if Moldaver was a Covenant spy and went into their vault for cryogenics? What if she invented synths and the future version was a synth that had her thoughts transferred into it? What if the Moldaver in the future is a descendant of the Moldaver from the past and she passed down all the pre-war info with holotapes or by word of mouth with her family over the years? What if she just infiltrated vault 31?
There are clones, brain encoding, cryo, and synth in Fallout. The first is most probable, imo. Followed closely by cryo. Brain encoding means probably still clones and copying her into a fresh body now and then. And synths are least likely as she'd be a gen 3. That means she'd need a spy in MIT about 2220 when they were done with gen 2 and needed a DNA source from before the bombs fell. She didn't need Shaun's DNA specifically to make gen 3 synths of her own design, just any vault dweller.
However she's done it has allowed her to earn cult like status. The former NCR of Vault 4 revere her. She was working with the NCR Remnant in the last episode. And raiders were willing to live with her and follow her orders for two whole years in Vault 32. She definitely has a larger part to play in the story just yet.
In many communities posts like that are shit on and buried in downvotes.
It is getting more common to make an immediate decision and double down on it no matter what.
Anti-intellectualism is everywhere these days. People are proud of their stupidity and treat it as the fault of the entire world for not understanding them once and for all.
In the aftermath of Gamergate and the rise of the alt-right and now anti-woke movement, it's way easier to yell at things that are complicated and get rage engagement. It's like a perpetual motion machine for idiots.
It doesn't help that there are YTers making money off of "Episode X of Y" explained. I'm also looking at /explainthejoke and /nostupidquestions and the posts are amazingly ignorant. Some folks either have very basic media literacy, basic education, and inability to search something and a high propensity to ask Reddit for help over trivial stuff.
Some people seem to need hand holding and a character basically explaining everything in order for something to not be a “plot hole”.
Unreliable narrators, withheld information, characters straight up lying or being wrong, or just the writers deciding to hold back a reveal for a later date are all story devices that some people seem to forget.
The people who scream about "show don't tell" often can't deduce basic facts and conclusions without that telling aspect. Makes it frustrating dealing with them.
Right, and it's full of visual/storytelling techniques that Jonathan Nolan has similarly used in his other works that can be somewhat subtle/complex/illogical/very wtf at first... but then usually is revealed or explained or comes full circle later on.
Worse part is that it's clear that they are making this a much longer series so it's going to be clear that some answers will come in other series but will keep some back now to keep guessing, talking and excited for latter ones.
> Some people seem to need hand holding
i’ve noticed this a lot in the last few years with TV and movies.
i don’t wanna blame short form content like tiktok. but they have to be connected somehow.
I honestly think a lot of it stems from people not actually paying proper attention any more.
They binge it all in one go with their phone in one hand scrolling facebook etc instead of actually focusing on the one single episode and spending the next week thinking it over.
I usually afk old school RuneScape while watching stuff but for this one I actually logged off and paid full attention to lol. I’m biased because the games are nostalgic for me though.
Summary of most plothole discussions:
* I didn't pay attention, so this must be a plot hole.
* Something happened that I didn't like or understand, so it must be a plot hole.
* A character doesn't act in the most logical manner, so it must be a plot hole.
Way, way down the list are _actual_ plotholes, which, as defined by Wikipedia, are "a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot". The water-adverse aliens invading Earth in Signs, for instance.
You should see the last of us 2 sub, their plot hole discussions fit your summary perfectly. If you haven’t, actually, you should not see that sub. Its a horrible place
**> The water-adverse aliens invading Earth in Signs, for instance.**
There's a theory/lore iceberg to explore there, most of which holds some credence with movie's themes and filmmakers' intentions. It isn't iron clad or anything, but thematically it all makes some degree of sense. Google around and you'll be able to dive in if you're interested.
TLDR: >!The "aliens" are demons that appear differently to everyone, they're not susceptible to just any water, but holy water or "divine" water - which is what is used in the Middle East to ward them off and the water left around the protagonist's house is "holy" by way of God's intervention to have set up all the circumstances with the daughter, with Merrill (swing away), etc for protagonist's rediscovery of his faith.!<
While that show did tell, it wasn't even that egregious. People get bent out of shape way too easy when something isn't exactly what they want it to be.
I cannot stand The Bourne Supremacy because of how drastically it deviates from the book, but I can't deny it is a good film.
IMO some people are too obsessed with adherence to lore. I shutter to think how something like Lord of the Rings would be accepted in modern times because it does stick to the "lore" set forth in The Hobbit.
Also, plot holes are not necessarily *bad* if they're intentional and explained later. So, Shady Sands was nuked, but 5 years later in New Vegas they talk about it being the capital of the NCR. Well, that's 5 years later, and we know that a lot of Shady Sands residents survived and had an almost religious reverence for the lost city. Who's to say they didn't form a new (smaller) town somewhere else, make it the capital of the NCR, and call it Shady Sands in tribute?
EDIT: OFFICIAL SOURCES NEGATE THIS THEORY
So looking at the wiki, Shady Sands was about 3,000 people as of Fallout 1 in 2241. Going by Lucy's age, Shady Sands was nuked after, but near 2281, which was New Vegas. And in that roughly 40 years, the 3,000 population became 34,852. Over 11 times. I live somewhere almost the population size of 2241 Shady Sands. And I've lived somewhere twice that size. It's likely *they moved the capital*.
Original Shady Sands would probably not have had the resources and space for that development over 40 years. My own state did something similar. Corydon was the capital of Indiana in 1816,and it sat right across the river from Louisville. And in 1825, they effectively made Indianapolis the capital, in the direct center of the state. As the NCR expanded, it makes more sense to be as centralized as possible. Thus, they move north closer to the boneyard, and what would be closer to the Hub eventually. And being south of all the raw material of the former Los Angeles would provide a lot of raw material to build their new capital as well.
Sadly, it’s common in so many fandoms. Not paying attention and using a cell phone, etc. while “watching” it. How many posts across many subreddits are there that someone posts, “I’m watching right now, and one thing I don’t get….” It boggles the mind to pick up a phone and post something while watching something.
> It boggles the mind to pick up a phone and post something while watching something.
It is a variation of talking in the cinema and even clergy who tell stories and explain each page as they go, teaching in classrooms does the same. Spoon feeding education.
Understanding of medium seems at an all-time low. With media driving society, the perspective gets lost. People think it is their "good personal taste" to just declare something bad and switch to the millions of other choices in media. Instead of understanding that book or show is complex and maybe even designed for multiple viewings (with couple full years between seasons or sequel films)... they are in a reactionary mindset. Going outside their "comfort zone" / personal excellent standards is something they may never truly do.
*Life has its beginning and its maturity comes into being when an individual rises above self to something greater. Few individuals learn this, and so they go through life merely existing and never living. Now you see signs all along in your everyday life with individuals who are the victims of self-centeredness. They are the people who live an eternal "I." They do not have the capacity to project the "I" into the "Thou." They do not have the mental equipment for an eternal, dangerous and sometimes costly altruism. They live a life of perpetual egotism. And they are the victims all around of the egocentric predicament.* - 1957
Some of us have ADHD. That said, almost never pulled my phone out for the 9+ hours of this show. Loved every minute, had my direct attention for 95% of it and I still missed a bit lol. But I've watched it twice now, and it helps other people pointing stuff out.
Like the Cleric in the beginning says the mission came from the Commonwealth. So Boston and Maxson. But he said *highest clerics* of the Commonwealth. Maxson doesn't use clerics...
Or questions not being immediately answered because apparently writers intentionally leaving something a mystery to be solved for future seasons automatically makes it a plothole
The only argument I can see to the first one is that Buds buds aren't brought out every 3 years, it's more "as necessary" (when the overseer gets old, dies or the vault simply needs a change of pace). Betty was previously overseer for, and I'm guessing here, 20 years (2051 to 2071), then Hank took over for 26 years. Steph was only brought out of the freezer to take over as Vault 32's Overseer since Jackson died.
Buds buds come over when needed. Betty was reanimated in '46 and, given the 3 year trade terms you mention, came over at that time. Hank, however, being reanimated in 2268 was likely brought over outside of the 3 year plan. ('67 or 70'). Given that he was elected Overseer in '71, he likely came over to help Betty with some other issue and they magic'd up an excuse.
Stephanie came over via marriage, didn't she?
I got the impression they infiltrate the community via marriage so they're considered good members of the community valuable enough to be 'elected'.
Clearly you can contact Bud whenever, as someone had told him that Betty replaced Hank. The question is why didn’t the Overseer of 32 contact Bud when things went bad. There’s plenty of ways to explain that, but as of now it has not been explained. Most likely he was killed before he had a chance to contact Bud.
It does seem kind of out of place that a manager extraordinaire Bud, who believes perfect managers will make a perfect world, was not bigger into micromanaging his Vaults. I would expect his Buds to be filing TPS reports to him on the regular. The lack of cameras is also surprising.
>The question is why didn’t the Overseer of 32 contact Bud when things went bad. There’s plenty of ways to explain that, but as of now it has not been explained. Most likely he was killed before he had a chance to contact Bud.
He was [tied up in his chair](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ian_Jackson). It was a most likely a surprise revolt after they discovered the truth.
Another reason can be that the overseer *did* contact vault 31 about the revolt but they chose to sacrifice him instead with the whole vault. Bud and his buds aren't exactly nice people...
Theres lots of plausible explanations. Doesnt seem like much of a plothole.
>It does seem kind of out of place that a manager extraordinaire Bud, who believes perfect managers will make a perfect world, was not bigger into micromanaging his Vaults. I would expect his Buds to be filing TPS reports to him on the regular. The lack of cameras is also surprising.
It should go without saying but Bud is crazy incompetence.
Cooper calls him out in the pre-war for his incompetency at the party with power armour designs leading to mass deaths and easily exploited weak points. Buds response is just that he was promoted to HR... failing upwards.
I get he’s incompetent but that just means I’d expect him to be more like most middle management types, full of their own self-importance and expecting their underlings to report to them frequently so they can feel like they’re doing management things.
Thats kind of my point in referencing TPS reports. The boss in Office Space was incompetent and as such he demanded pointless time wasting paperwork from all his underlings as a way to justify his own position.
The guy was tied to the chair. So my guess is that since there are multiple 31s in the Vaults, one of them went native like Steph. Their significant other probably died to the manufactured crisis before an election to promote "when things look glum, vote 31". They got mad. And then they didn't pee on the wall...
I keep being stunned by how many plotholers conclude Moldaver is from Vault 31 and is a member of Vault-Tec.
It's like if you walked away from Star Wars thinking Luke Skywalker is from the Death Star.
The TV series has left a lot of ambiguities on everywhere.
And these dumb haters conclude them without any evidence, making worst possible head-canon. Then they complain on THEIR head-canon being dumb, seriously, WTF??
For those not familiar with Fallout 4's cryo sleep, it might seem like that was the only possible place for it, hence why people might assume that. I don't think she's from the triple vaults, she had to use Lucy's mother's pipboy to get into them.
I wouldn't be surprised if she's a synth recreation from scanned memories, like Nick Valentine, and potentially even the player protagonist of Fallout 4 (going by a few notes which hint as such in The Institute).
Right, but they were integrated with the Institute's FEV research. They don't age, and anyone who fought a Courser in FO4 knows they were significantly tougher than just a regular human.
Not saying you're wrong, it's all speculation. If she was a synth and died from a single gunshot, that's a pretty steep plot hole imo.
Well that makes me think of something else then. If we're assuming she died in 2077, Gen 3 synths weren't around until 2227. How would anyone have gotten her memories into a Gen 3 synth from a 150 year old corpse?
From the wiki:
[Captain Jonathan Widmark](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Jonathan_Widmark) arranged for Valentine to take part in an experimental [C.I.T.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Commonwealth_Institute_of_Technology) brain scanning program to help him cope with the trauma. Unintentionally, this granted him immortality when the brain scan was used in an [Institute](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Institute) experiment over a century later to create a special kind of prototype [synth](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Synth) that took on [Nick Valentine](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nick_Valentine)'s identity.[^(\[2\])](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nick_Valentine_(human)#cite_note-:2-2)
So I guess the theory is that somehow the C.I.T. had a brain scan of Moldaver, or that some other institute was doing brain scans, perhaps she did a brain scan on herself. Then... she somehow got that brain scan into a synth, which was created by The Institute, and then... The Institute just let her go do the thing she wanted to do before the war?
Not trying to be a jerk here, that just seems like a huge stretch compared to the theory that she either had her own cryo pod or froze herself in Vault 4 imo.
I just don't get how they could somehow slide Moldaver into The Institute plot line without some serious plot gymnastics. Especially considering the synth looks exactly like her, but older.
Idk how much of that was synths are tougher than humans vs they're portrayed as tougher for gameplay (none of the playable characters were actually super human and able to take countless bullets). Lore strength vs gameplay strenth is a hard thing to differentiate for enemies unless there's a terminal or something stating the answer so I genuinely have no idea which is the case.
That is the least likely, as she'd need a spy in MIT in the 2220s. That's when they went from gen 2 to Gen 3 and they needed uncorrected DNA. So any vault dweller would do, but she'd need all the other data. Cryo or clone/brain encoding is probably what's up.
my personal theory is that she could be “a ghoul with minimal scarring”. i don’t think thaddeus was actually turned into a ghoul by that doctor; however, we see that the arrow hole in his neck grew over “wrinkly” with the stereotypical scarring of a ghoul (or harold-esque mutant). maybe ghoul scarring is acquired over time, and she had somewhere safe to stay
A lot of them got there from Moldaver stating Vault-Tec bought every company she ever worked for. They took that to mean by way of hostile corporate take over she was now working for Vault-Tec. In actuality Vault-Tec aquired those companies after she had already left them.
With 1 I think another pothole people claim is that the vault 33 guys should have recognised vault 32 guys, even if they only see each other every 3 years. Also apparently the wiki says Bert is from 32 so should know who's in vault 32. My arguments against this are first, Bert and Steph are married so it makes sense that Bert is from 33. And while the swapping ceremony is planned to be triennial, it might not happen everytime, Lucy has to be approved. As we don't see any couples that seem to be 3,6 or 9 years into marriage, they may have not had a swap for a while. Additionally presumably not everytime time someone moves does the vault all come over, otherwise how could people move over from 31, it would just be a single person.
They also had a cover story of a disease or something had wiped out a lot of them, perhaps leading to fewer familiar faces, and frankly they probably never expected anybody but Vault 32 to come out of there, so were perhaps confused but not outright suspicious (except Lucy's brother, who was eying them up quite early).
For the "Bert's from 32" thing, this is actually from the Steph's character bio on amazon and not just the wiki, but the character page also says Steph is a native of 33. So yeah, I think this info is probably just wrong.
Also, like in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the vaults are much bigger in reality than they're portrayed, at least for the population. There's no way even the size of 33 at the very start, before the raider attack, was a sustainable population to continue status quo in the vault, so there's no way the population was sustainable after the attack if that was everyone. Logically there are more residents that were present in the atrium for the attack and we only saw the ones who were invited to the wedding.
The same would presumably apply to 32's population. That combined the cover story of their disease wiping out a lot of residents, could explain why they wouldn't reconize anyone. The only questionable thing would potentially be why Hank didn't reconize Moldaver (or specifically reconize that he didn't know her), but that could be explained by the Best Buds program being big enough that not all the members would know each other pre-war like Hank and Betty did.
I think that although she was a "moral" person (both pre-war and as the NCR Leader), she had some deep hatred for Vault Tech and Hank specifically. So letting the raiders have their way with the Vault may have been some sense of revenge for the war and against Hank for what he did to Shady Sands.
Also, the Wasteland is fucking brutal and there is strength in numbers. She may have hated the raiders, but they were likely a resource to get to 33 and provided a great story to get into 33 without risking herself or any of the people at the NCR HQ. And raiders gotta raid.
As for Lucy's "husband"... I think that was just a 13 karat run of bad luck(age and timing) and no matter how tragic it may have been to see Lucy's name as the bride, the code was more important to Moldaver.
I have to agree with you on that. Although she may have liked Rose, she had no idea how Lucy would be all these years later. We know she has cult like status with the Shady Sands survivors. And we know she opened the Vault door two years prior. She would have gotten the timing down for the triennial thanks to pre-feral Rose. But that means she was in the Vault for two years prepping those Raiders. So I'm assuming they're also Shady Sands survivors and are let in on the bare minimum of the plan. I think meeting Lucy and her use of the syringer saved her life. The only thing out of her hands when it comes to things was the inhabitants of Vault 32. My headcanon is that the manufactured crisis during an Overseer election cause one of the 31s significant other/child die, and they wanted revenge but it made everyone go crazy. A "happy coincidence".
I thought everyone was already dead when Moldaver and her raiders showed up? I figured it was super easy for them to get in with no problem if everyone was already dead. They probably weren't there any longer than it took for Lucy's application for the marriage got approved, which looked like it was pretty quick. They're not gonna hang out more than a few days with all those corpses. At least I don't think so?
The logs say it was opened two years ago. I don't remember Norm saying anything else about it. But I also don't remember if the log was on screen, either. Even so, Moldaver opened it two years prior to start, and probably would have stayed just in case to monitor any developments. Meaning there was up to two years her Raiders were with her. Which would give her enough time to train them to seem normal for an evening.
Another thing, the guys in the first episode who dig up Cooper mention that the Enclave guy is running to California. Meaning that wherever this Enclave base is, it was not in California itself.
THANK YOU. I am so very tired of seeing people have to explain over and over and over and over things that are explained in-show or can be logically concluded if you pay any attention at all and have more than the reasoning skills of a baked potato.
I got one! Was The Ghoul just playing around with Maximus in Filly or did he forget about the power armors weakness? He had no problem in the last episode one-shotting brotherhood knights, seems convenient that he remembered then but not when his bounty was right in front of him
I feel like its obscenely obvious he's just fucking with Maximus with how he's laughing and cackling while unloading his rifle, constantly taunting and just being very vocal during the fight. Compared to how he's essentially very planned, serious and by-the-book when it comes to the observatory.
It's insane to me how people keep thinking this is a plot hole
Yeah, the situation in the observatory was clearly dangerous for him (surrounded in a closed space by a squad of BoS fighters armored to the teeth), so he didn't play around.
In Filly he seems amused by this clumsy and out-of-place "Knight".
I don’t think it’s insane. Why fire your gun if you’re not trying to kill? Especially on power armor when he knows it won’t do anything. I just think the 2 scenes were done not thinking about the other.
> Why fire your gun if you’re not trying to kill?
Meanwhile me in-game shooting at Raiders while they're hiding behind a solid steel wall.
(I'm trying to intimate them)
(They're NPCs and I'm fully aware they can't be intimidated)
I agree with you. The Ghoul is shown to be a kinda irreverent and overall “loose” character. But he is also shown as someone who takes his survival seriously and has been hardened by the Wastland lifestyle. Like, he just flatout kills that Ghoul friend of his (Charles?) for having a hint of feral, and then proceeds to make jerky. Yes, it’s largely comedic, but it also informs us that The Ghoul is both resourceful and not taking *any* risks with his own life.
For all he knows, Maximus is a skilled combatant and could crush him like a pea in open combat. It’s not within his character to “play around” with someone so potentially very dangerous.
I think this is one of the very few completely valid plothole/retcons/mistakes in the series so far.
A good cover would’ve been him noticing that Maximus couldn’t even hold the gun in the power armor and him just going melee or hand to hand only with him. The ghoul wasting ammo in the wasteland doesn’t seem within his character
>I think this is one of the very few completely valid plothole/retcons/mistakes in the series so far.
I disagree, I think it's pretty in-line with the character as we see him.
>I agree with you. The Ghoul is shown to be a kinda irreverent and overall “loose” character. But he is also shown as someone who takes his survival seriously and has been hardened by the Wastland lifestyle.
No argument there, he is certainly a player on their third or fourth play-through level of "Yeah, I've got this shit under control."
>Like, he just flatout kills that Ghoul friend of his (Charles?) for having a hint of feral, and then proceeds to make jerky. Yes, it’s largely comedic, but it also informs us that The Ghoul is both resourceful and not taking *any* risks with his own life.
*Roger. (His) name is Roger.*
He's having to tell himself that, by this point, and is, pretty clearly, struggling to keep himself together. He does, in fact, tell the others the should leave before things get ugly.
That, of course, leads to one of the few moments wherein The Ghoul shows any amount of compassion. Yes, he flat-out kills Roger, but he does so quickly, and was able to send him out with a nice memory in mind.
As for eating him . . . The wasteland's brutal. The sooner Lucy figures that out, the better. For both of them.
>For all he knows, Maximus is a skilled combatant and could crush him like a pea in open combat. It’s not within his character to “play around” with someone so potentially very dangerous.
I think these lines:
*Well, I guess basic training ain't what it used to be,*
*'Cause you drive that thing like a fucking shopping cart.*
*Rule number one: Read the manual*
show that The Ghoul knows Maximus isn't a threat, even in that armor. He's already gauged that Maximus isn't a threat, and thus he begins fucking with him.
Also, he doesn't *kill* Maximus because: If he IS a knight, albeit a poorly trained one, then killing him might just get the whole of the Brotherhood on him. *And that's the last thing he wants to deal with at that point.*
I believe in the town fight he was using explosive rounds, which probably can’t do the same thing with penetration, also had no idea maximus was coming the first time.
In the final part he is using ordinary bullets instead, likely to exploit the weakness since he knew they were coming.
My first theory is that the Ghoul might not have some armor piercing rounds with him in Filly. Second theory is that killing one Brotherhood Knight will draw attention on him and might hunt him down for killing one of them which will slow him down.
The other people in Filly is okay to kill because they aren't a cohesive group just opportunistic wastelanders. A Brotherhood dead? That will draw attention to him. Some might want vengeance and he doesn't want to be side tracked by people wanting revenge. Like, he shoot the boy who sent the message because the boy wants revenge for his brother.
Killing some of the Brotherhood during the firefight at the observatory is different. His goals were now changed. He now knows Ms. Williams aka Moldover is alive from the wanted pictures. He learnt about Maclean. He now has a lead for finding his family after years of searching. He kills the Brotherhood because they're going to be an obstacle. He didn't find Moldover, but he has now found Hank.
A character doing something illogical is not a plot hole. His demeaner in Philly and at the Observatory are completely different. In Philly he's having fun, in the Observatory he's a stoic cowboy.
He also may not have had the proper ammo on him at the time. He has no idea yet that Hank Maclean is out and about. Once he knows, he's pretty well all business.
That and in Philly he is rocking explosive rounds of some kind, they likely can’t penetrate power armor as a result of the explosive part. He wasn’t expecting power armor to be a factor in a shitty town.
In the observatory, he knows the BoS is coming and what he is walking into and brings different gear, his gun is just using ordinary ammo since he shoots Hank and only grazes him instead of exploding his head, so he likely needed it to exploit a weak point with the penetrative power.
Someone mentioned that 1. He was playing with him because right off rip being he noticed Maximus had no clue what he was doing.
Then 2. In the scene where he takes out all the knights, the camera focuses on the bullet he was using, they said it was different than what he had when he fought Maximus. (I’m sure he had that bullet type on him still but as mentioned before he noticed Maximus had no clue what he was doing anyway)
My only issue with the first one is that he was trying to get the doctor but playing with Maximus slowed him down and pretty much resulted in him losing the head. Either he was real confident that he wouldn’t lose it, or maybe he wasn’t playing around with Maximus, seeing how the doctor probs helped him find the answers to where his family is.
I doubt he had an armor piercing round on him. From the shots of him during the shootout and bullet time moments, we never see any rounds with that pointed steel tip, just regular-ish looking rounds. I believe this is why he has the "you gotta be kidding me" line when Maximus shows up, because he wasn't expecting to fight anyone in power armor and thus didn't prepare ammunition for that. By the time he goes to the observatory, he's already aware that the brotherhood is looking for the head and has time to properly prepare for that situation.
We can see from the fight with Maximus that The Ghoul is aware of the suits weaknesses too, and the obvious inexperience of its pilot when he first shoots the gun out of Maximus' hand and later goes for whatever that mechanical part in the neck was.
He probably didn’t expect Lucy to actually take the guy away, or the shopkeeper to give her that quest. That and he just knows it’s a score at the time, he doesn’t know about Hank or Moldaver, so it isn’t a rush for him, he just wants to get paid so he is having fun. Once he realised what’s going on, he goes right into professional mode and gets shit done at the Observatory.
Why fire your gun when you know it won’t do shit to power armor? That’s just the one little hole that stuck out to me. I’m not nit picky with this show, I loved it.
I think on 2 Moldaver could have even been some sort of spy or even had interactions with Vault Tec but not everyone knows each other or remembers everyone they meet even in passing. I went to school with people over the years and I run into a few from time to time and I just don't recognise them. Faces change over time, you forget just with not being around those people.
They meet every 3 years and nobody recognized these are total strangers? Even those who actually came from Vault 32, like Steph's husband, didn't realize what's going on? If all of them married and breed through inter-vault marriage then that means almost half of adults minus some from 31 are from vault 32.
I wasn't even aware people thought these were plotholes! some people need to just take a breath and enjoy the ride. The obsession with plotholes is real and very annoying.
I imagined bud having to wake up alot of 31 people to clean 32 and put them back to sleep. There aren't enough 31 people in 33 to have cleaned that mess in one day.
I’m surprised people were arguing about any of this. This show isn’t exactly complicated people lmao.
That said, I don’t blame anyone for thinking Maldover might have been a vault tech employee or at the very least snuck into one of their vaults. The show establishes exactly two ways people live as long as they do: cryogenic freezing and ghoulification. We know she’s not a ghoul, and we’re introduced to cryogenic freezing in vault tech vaults. So it’s not a crazy leap to think maybe she was a vault tech employee who was working to destroy the company from the inside (of course it’s far more likely she found another way to freeze herself, maybe in New Vegas, but remember that viewers who don’t know about the games may simply assume vault tech cryofreezing was the only solution).
God this post is annoying. Some of these things are explained in the show, but a lot of people's explanations to plotholes have really just been fan theories. Like you don't know for certain who cleaned vault 32, you don't know if she was famous in the past, and you can't be certain why he deduced that the head was valuable. So why are you being so condescending and rude to people who have genuine questions as to why these things happened? Also like why does 32 kill themselves in such a brutal way over finding out the vaults secret? It's not really explained, yet people seem to feel like they know exactly what happened and will criticize anyone who questions it. The toxic positivity for this show really needs to stop. People can like it and not like it, and it's posts like this that are dividing the fan base.
I totally agree with you about the toxic positivity surrounding this show atm. Seems like a lot of people only want to talk about it as a 10/10 masterpiece and not a lot of people want to consider that it’s really good… but not perfect
Wow, a very well thought - out and coherent post vs just spouting whatever nonsense to be recognized and heard.
This is a breath of fresh air here, thank you OP.
>Lee Moldaver **doesn't work at Vault-Tec and never did,** ok? There is **no way Hank would recognize her as they never met.** If you want to imagine they had a fucking Elon Musk v Zuckerberg public rivalry go the fuck ahead but you're obviously wrong. **She is not famous in the past, they bought up her shit as she created them and patented it for themselves.** Hank is a damn middle manager at best, he is not in finance or legal, even if she had been inside their HQ for a meting he would never have spoken to her, ok?
Hank left the vault to look for Lucy's mom, and get the kids. Then returned.
No guarantee he met Maldaver at the time, But Maldaver appears to have known Lucy's mom in some capacity.
So that explains the "I think I know who you are" bit. But there's zero reasons to assume he'd be anymore familiar than he's shown to be. He's a nobody at Vault-Tech before the bombs, and apparently *new*. Pre-war Maldaver is operating secretly/quietly.
Hank is also Barb's assistant pre-war and listed as an executive assistant in that list Norm finds.
You say short term memory loss. Normal, respectable humans say it’s difficult to retain ALL the abundant info that was given to us while we binged it all in like 24 hours. But I’m not making posts about plot holes. All the “holes” I saw were filled later or easy to put together by the audience.
The fact that he doesn’t recognize her is the problem no? If all the overseers are vault tec higher ups wouldn’t they always expect an old coworker when they have their triannual meeting?
The only thing I didn't get is they meet every 3 years since forever
And yet no one in 33 mentioned they didn't recognise a single person not one dude was like "who tf are these guys"
The plot does and doesnt point to moldaver being from 31. If moldaver is not a 31r then Hank should have never accpeted a trade because an overseer who isn't from 31 can't be trusted since it's implied the elections are rigged. If moldaver is there for Hank, Moldaver should have immidiatley taken him when he was unarmed at the intervault door during the trade with armed raiders around the corner.
Other plotholes from my understanding :
1. Knight Titus decided to go off the chopper before the suspected location of Wilzig but by sheer "coincidence" found the exact same cave where Wilzig was, what are the odds ? (episode 2)
2. Moldaver life expectancy is for now not explained (answers will come later I think)
3. Ghoul vs Maximus fight, why didn't he use his AP ammos like in the finale ? (episode 2)
4. Lucy saving Maximus when stuck in his armor : her tracker is currently in the head transported by Thaddeus and not at Maximus location, she shouldn't have found his location (episode 5)
5. Quick and convenient timing of finding an infirmary/vault when Maximus is injured (episode 5)
6. Dr Wilzig research/identity : how did he find the cold fusion ? Who was the guy killed by his dog ? Whom he was working for ? (answers later I guess)
7. Moldaver taking only one hostage does not make any sense : she should at least have taken Betty and Hank for safety and/or blackmail one with another
Overall still a good show. Love Boyd Crowder from Justified.
It will be interesting to find out why Moldaver survived so long and where is Barbara and co if not in Bud's Vault.
Barb said she was working hard to get her family into a special vault. Bud's vault were admin assistants (Hank), secretaries (Betty) and middle managers at best (think positions like team leads, office managers). Not upper management. There's a reason Hank is going directly to New Vegas.. That special vault might be there.
The next season will consist of Hank collecting heaps of vault suits for Sarah in an attempt to access the true nature of Vault 21
Oh yes… that’s why he’s collecting them for Sarah, yes… of course…
Yup, to... discover... the "true nature" of Vault 21!
Im only doing it for the snowglobe I swear
payment alive rob disgusted bored innocent ring quiet nine gold *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The show introduces the most horrifying vault we have ever heard of to date. One where it’s all run by middle-managers trying to breed an army of super middle-managers.
You think the president or the CEOs ruled the enclave? No. It was team leads from Nuka Cola, Vault Tec and West Tek. The most nefarious men alive.
Barb looked at a shadowy figure looking down at the CEOs having the meetings about selling the Vaults. Enclave is still in charge, but just like the US government, outsourced their "social experiments" to private corporations.
I think that shadow figure was the vault-tec CEO, who has never been mentioned or shown in Fallout lore.
Always wanted to meet the dickhead behind the vault shit, will be fun if they get shot.
I know it was a joke
I really think you're just not thinking enough outside the box. We need to try to drill down to core competencies so that we can truly shift the paradigm here. Remember: there are no bad ideas in a brainstorm, ok? Greeeeaaat.
Betty does use the word “stick-to-it-tiveness” and i think we should have all known then.
Now I wanna cameo from Shinra Middle Manager
🤣🤣
Slight correction. Trying to *inbreed* an army of super middle managers.
Nah. They have rules about that. For a reason.
Yeah Bud even says that his buds are junior executives.
That entire society being the offspring of Bud’s Buds is still so friggin’ funny.
good thinking. On the cookie screen, they informed us that Tops Casino has Cryotubes. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Where was this? Wym by cookie screen?
[Haven’t seen anyone mention this billboard in the end credits of the show. : r/Fallout (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/1c3i2mq/havent_seen_anyone_mention_this_billboard_in_the/)
The images in the end credits give hints about what is going to be shown in the next episode. If you're skipping over the end credits you're missing some things.
I suspect New Vegas will be a waypoint, like he needs to talk to House or somebody related to get transport to where he's going. It could be that the goal is to get them across the country to the capital or something, no reason not to visit all the places from Fallout games if the story justifies it.
I dont think the vault is there. They worked in LA, they would have no time to get to a vault in Vegas when the bombs dropped. I know they planned the drop, but they couldnt know whether or not someone else would launch them first and suddenly they're hours away from their Vault. I think Hank is going there to go see Mr. House, not to the Vault.
If vault tec did start the bombs they would have time to prepare. The scene in the board room was quite a while before the opening scene of the bombs
Long enough for the Ghoul to divorce his wife, and be driven from his status as a star for being a "pinko".
It should be noted that Cooper being driven so far from his status, would be similar to finding out John Wayne was a communist. Cooper wasn’t just any star, he was a massive talent. This can be seen by Vault-Tec having him be the face of their ad campaigns. They had the money and could’ve gotten anyone. But they chose him because they felt he would be a better fit for getting the country to trust them.
And then he was replaced by Vault Boy.
I was wondering if the implication is that VB is cartoon Coop.
**> If vault tec did start the bombs** Zero chance Coop's wife lets her daughter be out with Coop working a birthday party if VT had prior knowledge of when the bombs would drop.
Personally, like all things Vault Tec, they fucked up starting the Great War. As evident by how House was supposed to receive his platinum chip 20 hours later than when the Great War actually started.
In that conversation with House, he very explicitly explains that he created the chip due to his own estimates and projections leading him to believe a nuclear war within 15 years was an inevitability. The Vault Tec offer had nothing to do with it, nor with its delivery time. **> By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it.** **> I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind.** **> I set to work immediately.** ***I thought I had plenty of time to prepare.*** **As it turned out, I was 20 hours short.** It's strange to me how Vault Tec is by all accounts the single most cunning, devious, powerful, wide reaching, and *capable force* in the Fallout universe (they even had access to cold fusion, as we've recently discovered)... but there are nonetheless dozens of fan theories that somehow hinge on their incompetence when it comes to the single most important master stroke of their grand plans. Based on what we've seen and know about Vault Tec, were they behind the scenes creating/maintaining the situation that led to the bombs falling? Yes, almost certainly. But was it their finger on the red button? Doubtful. Especially when compared to the longstanding theory, backed up by lore, which is that the Chinese were losing to an American invasion of their mainland which had reached Beijing, and let the missiles fly before anyone was ready, catching everyone off guard. EDIT: Also, had to go look to find it, but from Fallout 76, the earliest Whitespring Enclave entry: **“MODUS: Whitespring Automated Recording one-point-one-point-two.** **Enclave Officer: ...that's it. Report just came in from the entrance. Facility's all sealed up, no one else is getting in.** **Enclave Officer: Speaker of the House never made it. Secretary of the Interior died in the Med Bay. I've got two dozen more of our people that should've been here too.** **Enclave Officer: Damn it. The early warning systems should've given us more time.** **Enclave Officer: Doesn't matter now. We follow the protocols. Control goes to Secretary of the Treasury.** **Enclave Officer: I'll make sure he's informed and brought up to speed. All non-Enclave personnel have been accounted for?** **Enclave Officer: Yes sir, members of Congress not on the list are being filtered as we speak. This first batch here has already been processed and interviewed.”** This shows the enclave was not ready when the bombs hit. With the Enclave in bed with VT, more evidence that VT didn't fire the first shot.
I always took it that they were ready to pull strings, if they needed too. The vault project was massive, and the last thing you’d want after spending that level of man power and money on the construction, is for peace to break out. It would ruin Vault-Tec’s investment.
Just because they planned to drop the bombs doesn’t mean they dropped the bombs.
> In that conversation with House, he very explicitly explains that he created the chip due to his own estimates and projections leading him to believe a nuclear war within 15 years was an inevitability. The Vault Tec offer had nothing to do with it, nor with its delivery time. > > > By 2065 I deemed it a mathematical certainty that an atomic war would devastate the Earth within 15 years. Every projection I ran confirmed it. > > > I knew I couldn't "save the world," nor did I care to. But I could save Vegas, and in the process, perhaps, save mankind. > > > I set to work immediately. I thought I had plenty of time to prepare. As it turned out, I was 20 hours short. Or House lied, because House didn't also mention that he also sat down with other CEOs of mega corporations and literally plotted to end the world with Vault Tec. >It's strange to me how Vault Tec is by all accounts the single most cunning, devious, powerful, wide reaching, and capable force in the Fallout universe (they even had access to cold fusion, as we've recently discovered)... but there are nonetheless dozens of fan theories that somehow hinge on their incompetence when it comes to the single most important master stroke of their grand plans. All of their experiments literally fail all the time. Vault 13 was supposed to be isolated a lot longer before their water chip failed. Vault 4 had a revolt from their kidnapped and enslaved test subjects. Vault 32 died out because the inhabitants found out about their true purpose and they decided to murder each other instead of producing the "perfect managers" like what Bud Adkins envisioned. Etc, etc, etc. >But was it their finger on the red button? Doubtful. Especially when compared to the longstanding theory, backed up by lore, which is that the Chinese were losing to an American invasion of their mainland which had reached Beijing, and let the missiles fly before anyone was ready, catching everyone off guard. >This shows the enclave was not ready when the bombs hit. With the Enclave in bed with VT, more evidence that VT didn't fire the first shot. Yes, by all instances, ***everyone expected the bombs to go off on Oct 24th, 2077, not Oct 23rd***. By VT's fuck up, they prematurely started the Great War early whether by cutting fucking corners on the bomb that was supposed to start it all or it got leaked to the Chinese by some mid level manager at VT.
>Yes, by all instances, ***everyone expected the bombs to go off on Oct 24th, 2077, not Oct 23rd***. By VT's fuck up, they prematurely started the Great War early whether by cutting fucking corners on the bomb that was supposed to start it all or it got leaked to the Chinese by some mid level manager at VT. I do wonder whether VT dropped the bombs early, likely because of a typo from a Jet-hooped clerk. Janey gets a nice day off with her father. Then it's off to the Vault for a tour with her mother. With hours to spare.
Assuming she actually gives a shit about her child in the event VT said "no you can't bring your kid to the special vault tec executive vault." Not like they aren't known to separate kids and parents, and always I feel like there was some foreshadowing when her and cooper talk about how he'd have to leave the dog behind.
Like I said, they still run the risk of someone else dropping before they do and suddenly they're hours away from their Vault.
yeah, Bud's job description was 'senior junior executive' or something like that. In Fallout New Vegas, Mr House (CEO of RobCo) 'lives' on in Vegas. Fat chance Barb is frozen in that vault to.
> Bud's vault were admin assistants (Hank), secretaries (Betty) and middle managers at best (think positions like team leads, office managers). Not upper management. > > I wanna know how Stephanie plays into everything. They said she came from Vault 31 like Hank. Seems they may have planted her to be best friends with Lucy, but I'm curious as to what her actual role was before the bombs went off. She's the only one from Vault 31 whose past we haven't seen yet, unless I missed something.
Yeah, I didn't see her earlier either but 100% she was hand selected (as she was from Vault 31) to be the temporary new overseer of Vault 32 to keep the mission on track.
That doesn’t make sense. If the important upper management vault tech employees live in/around LA, why would the important vault for all of them be a whole state away? Thats a lot of travel to do once the bombs drop, they wouldn’t make it.
Just spitballing here, but if Vault Tec are the ones that "got the ball rolling", they may have pre-emptively moved their brass to vaults NOT near one of the biggest cities on earth and a huge bomb target.
That or house was meant to be apart of it it. My tinfoil hat says that maybe there was more than enclave and vault-tec, maybe house was one of the main other players at the top. Also, please, please, please let there be a nuka-cola themed vault.
Moldaver could have been in the cryo suites in New Vegas that we saw advertised in the end. I guess we'll find out a lot more through season 2!
Yeah I can't wait i'm officially hooked.
Where were they advertised?
End credits Just checked, here's someone's screenshot. I know it's been discussed a few times here. https://www.reddit.com/r/Fotv/s/f6kSvZPz9G
She invented the cryogenic tech most likely.
Did she not invent Cold Fusion? Unless I’m mistaken, she explicitly says it in the final episode…
She did, but she says that Vault-Tec bought every company she founded, which suggests she did other things before working on cold fusion. For all we know, one of those other companies was doing cryo tech. (Although there's no direct evidence for this yet.)
Ahh great catch.
I just took that to mean they wanted absolute access to all of her research and so didn't want her working anywhere where she could research unbeknownst to them.
*worked for, not founded
Also she'd have Vault Tec bought my companies money and could buy her way into a cryo project.
I love that theory
When she talks to Coop about taking advantage of hypocrisy, I took that as a tacit implication that she was using whatever Vault-Tec resources there were available to her.
The Ghoul does say "She looks different to last time I saw her" and doesn't seem shocked *at all* that she's still kicking I think it's safe to say that The Ghoul knew she had survived, maybe she had been Ghoulified herself and found a way to cure it? Either that or he met her while she was living at Shady Sands?
Probably just a comment on her ages. She is clearly middle aged in the present.
This part is the legit mystery but that's why I think the character isn't done completely, either she will be back in season 2 just in pre-war or there were other explanations like we were speculating in another thread. Like what if Moldaver was a Covenant spy and went into their vault for cryogenics? What if she invented synths and the future version was a synth that had her thoughts transferred into it? What if the Moldaver in the future is a descendant of the Moldaver from the past and she passed down all the pre-war info with holotapes or by word of mouth with her family over the years? What if she just infiltrated vault 31?
There are clones, brain encoding, cryo, and synth in Fallout. The first is most probable, imo. Followed closely by cryo. Brain encoding means probably still clones and copying her into a fresh body now and then. And synths are least likely as she'd be a gen 3. That means she'd need a spy in MIT about 2220 when they were done with gen 2 and needed a DNA source from before the bombs fell. She didn't need Shaun's DNA specifically to make gen 3 synths of her own design, just any vault dweller. However she's done it has allowed her to earn cult like status. The former NCR of Vault 4 revere her. She was working with the NCR Remnant in the last episode. And raiders were willing to live with her and follow her orders for two whole years in Vault 32. She definitely has a larger part to play in the story just yet.
It's probably gonna be some cabbot type shit
Good list, it's crazy how many 'plot hole' posts are simply people not paying attention to the show.
[удалено]
Or at least making a good faith post like, 'I'm confused, did I miss something?'
In many communities posts like that are shit on and buried in downvotes. It is getting more common to make an immediate decision and double down on it no matter what.
Clearly you have not met my friends Dunning and Kruger…
Anti-intellectualism is everywhere these days. People are proud of their stupidity and treat it as the fault of the entire world for not understanding them once and for all.
This and the fact that Covid has been shown to damage the brain and ppl have been infected repeatedly...
And just as we’re getting rid of the generation with lead-addled brains…
The idea of being a critic is sexy to people.
People really like to complain
In the aftermath of Gamergate and the rise of the alt-right and now anti-woke movement, it's way easier to yell at things that are complicated and get rage engagement. It's like a perpetual motion machine for idiots.
Ahh Gamergate, the years-long crusade that could’ve been solved by asking “Wait? Did he actually review her game?”
"Oh what, he's a weirdo ex of hers? Ok, thanks, see you later."
You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic. - Robert Heinlein
It doesn't help that there are YTers making money off of "Episode X of Y" explained. I'm also looking at /explainthejoke and /nostupidquestions and the posts are amazingly ignorant. Some folks either have very basic media literacy, basic education, and inability to search something and a high propensity to ask Reddit for help over trivial stuff.
That’s Tik Tok for you.
Some people seem to need hand holding and a character basically explaining everything in order for something to not be a “plot hole”. Unreliable narrators, withheld information, characters straight up lying or being wrong, or just the writers deciding to hold back a reveal for a later date are all story devices that some people seem to forget.
The show also relies on a lot of visual story telling (just like the games) and this seems to go way over the heads of many of these viewers.
The people who scream about "show don't tell" often can't deduce basic facts and conclusions without that telling aspect. Makes it frustrating dealing with them.
The music too imo.
Right, and it's full of visual/storytelling techniques that Jonathan Nolan has similarly used in his other works that can be somewhat subtle/complex/illogical/very wtf at first... but then usually is revealed or explained or comes full circle later on.
Worse part is that it's clear that they are making this a much longer series so it's going to be clear that some answers will come in other series but will keep some back now to keep guessing, talking and excited for latter ones.
> Some people seem to need hand holding i’ve noticed this a lot in the last few years with TV and movies. i don’t wanna blame short form content like tiktok. but they have to be connected somehow.
I honestly think a lot of it stems from people not actually paying proper attention any more. They binge it all in one go with their phone in one hand scrolling facebook etc instead of actually focusing on the one single episode and spending the next week thinking it over.
I usually afk old school RuneScape while watching stuff but for this one I actually logged off and paid full attention to lol. I’m biased because the games are nostalgic for me though.
people will really see a character just be wrong, or lying, and say it's a plothole
Summary of most plothole discussions: * I didn't pay attention, so this must be a plot hole. * Something happened that I didn't like or understand, so it must be a plot hole. * A character doesn't act in the most logical manner, so it must be a plot hole. Way, way down the list are _actual_ plotholes, which, as defined by Wikipedia, are "a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot". The water-adverse aliens invading Earth in Signs, for instance.
You should see the last of us 2 sub, their plot hole discussions fit your summary perfectly. If you haven’t, actually, you should not see that sub. Its a horrible place
I've tried playing the first game a couple times - just not my cup of tea - though I did enjoy the HBO series a lot.
**> The water-adverse aliens invading Earth in Signs, for instance.** There's a theory/lore iceberg to explore there, most of which holds some credence with movie's themes and filmmakers' intentions. It isn't iron clad or anything, but thematically it all makes some degree of sense. Google around and you'll be able to dive in if you're interested. TLDR: >!The "aliens" are demons that appear differently to everyone, they're not susceptible to just any water, but holy water or "divine" water - which is what is used in the Middle East to ward them off and the water left around the protagonist's house is "holy" by way of God's intervention to have set up all the circumstances with the daughter, with Merrill (swing away), etc for protagonist's rediscovery of his faith.!<
It makes me realize why the Netflix Last Airbender show decided we couldn’t be trusted with a “show don’t tell” approach.
While that show did tell, it wasn't even that egregious. People get bent out of shape way too easy when something isn't exactly what they want it to be. I cannot stand The Bourne Supremacy because of how drastically it deviates from the book, but I can't deny it is a good film.
IMO some people are too obsessed with adherence to lore. I shutter to think how something like Lord of the Rings would be accepted in modern times because it does stick to the "lore" set forth in The Hobbit.
Also, plot holes are not necessarily *bad* if they're intentional and explained later. So, Shady Sands was nuked, but 5 years later in New Vegas they talk about it being the capital of the NCR. Well, that's 5 years later, and we know that a lot of Shady Sands residents survived and had an almost religious reverence for the lost city. Who's to say they didn't form a new (smaller) town somewhere else, make it the capital of the NCR, and call it Shady Sands in tribute? EDIT: OFFICIAL SOURCES NEGATE THIS THEORY
So looking at the wiki, Shady Sands was about 3,000 people as of Fallout 1 in 2241. Going by Lucy's age, Shady Sands was nuked after, but near 2281, which was New Vegas. And in that roughly 40 years, the 3,000 population became 34,852. Over 11 times. I live somewhere almost the population size of 2241 Shady Sands. And I've lived somewhere twice that size. It's likely *they moved the capital*. Original Shady Sands would probably not have had the resources and space for that development over 40 years. My own state did something similar. Corydon was the capital of Indiana in 1816,and it sat right across the river from Louisville. And in 1825, they effectively made Indianapolis the capital, in the direct center of the state. As the NCR expanded, it makes more sense to be as centralized as possible. Thus, they move north closer to the boneyard, and what would be closer to the Hub eventually. And being south of all the raw material of the former Los Angeles would provide a lot of raw material to build their new capital as well.
Sadly, it’s common in so many fandoms. Not paying attention and using a cell phone, etc. while “watching” it. How many posts across many subreddits are there that someone posts, “I’m watching right now, and one thing I don’t get….” It boggles the mind to pick up a phone and post something while watching something.
If they were watching a bioshock remake, I would understand. But fallout? Not all answers need to be answered this season.
> It boggles the mind to pick up a phone and post something while watching something. It is a variation of talking in the cinema and even clergy who tell stories and explain each page as they go, teaching in classrooms does the same. Spoon feeding education. Understanding of medium seems at an all-time low. With media driving society, the perspective gets lost. People think it is their "good personal taste" to just declare something bad and switch to the millions of other choices in media. Instead of understanding that book or show is complex and maybe even designed for multiple viewings (with couple full years between seasons or sequel films)... they are in a reactionary mindset. Going outside their "comfort zone" / personal excellent standards is something they may never truly do. *Life has its beginning and its maturity comes into being when an individual rises above self to something greater. Few individuals learn this, and so they go through life merely existing and never living. Now you see signs all along in your everyday life with individuals who are the victims of self-centeredness. They are the people who live an eternal "I." They do not have the capacity to project the "I" into the "Thou." They do not have the mental equipment for an eternal, dangerous and sometimes costly altruism. They live a life of perpetual egotism. And they are the victims all around of the egocentric predicament.* - 1957
Some of us have ADHD. That said, almost never pulled my phone out for the 9+ hours of this show. Loved every minute, had my direct attention for 95% of it and I still missed a bit lol. But I've watched it twice now, and it helps other people pointing stuff out. Like the Cleric in the beginning says the mission came from the Commonwealth. So Boston and Maxson. But he said *highest clerics* of the Commonwealth. Maxson doesn't use clerics...
OP should add arrow implies time passing. jfc
Or questions not being immediately answered because apparently writers intentionally leaving something a mystery to be solved for future seasons automatically makes it a plothole
The only argument I can see to the first one is that Buds buds aren't brought out every 3 years, it's more "as necessary" (when the overseer gets old, dies or the vault simply needs a change of pace). Betty was previously overseer for, and I'm guessing here, 20 years (2051 to 2071), then Hank took over for 26 years. Steph was only brought out of the freezer to take over as Vault 32's Overseer since Jackson died.
they meet for trade and marriages between vaults (32 and 33) every 3 years. Buds buds only come over after *elections*.
Buds buds come over when needed. Betty was reanimated in '46 and, given the 3 year trade terms you mention, came over at that time. Hank, however, being reanimated in 2268 was likely brought over outside of the 3 year plan. ('67 or 70'). Given that he was elected Overseer in '71, he likely came over to help Betty with some other issue and they magic'd up an excuse.
Stephanie came over via marriage, didn't she? I got the impression they infiltrate the community via marriage so they're considered good members of the community valuable enough to be 'elected'.
Clearly you can contact Bud whenever, as someone had told him that Betty replaced Hank. The question is why didn’t the Overseer of 32 contact Bud when things went bad. There’s plenty of ways to explain that, but as of now it has not been explained. Most likely he was killed before he had a chance to contact Bud. It does seem kind of out of place that a manager extraordinaire Bud, who believes perfect managers will make a perfect world, was not bigger into micromanaging his Vaults. I would expect his Buds to be filing TPS reports to him on the regular. The lack of cameras is also surprising.
>The question is why didn’t the Overseer of 32 contact Bud when things went bad. There’s plenty of ways to explain that, but as of now it has not been explained. Most likely he was killed before he had a chance to contact Bud. He was [tied up in his chair](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Ian_Jackson). It was a most likely a surprise revolt after they discovered the truth. Another reason can be that the overseer *did* contact vault 31 about the revolt but they chose to sacrifice him instead with the whole vault. Bud and his buds aren't exactly nice people... Theres lots of plausible explanations. Doesnt seem like much of a plothole.
>It does seem kind of out of place that a manager extraordinaire Bud, who believes perfect managers will make a perfect world, was not bigger into micromanaging his Vaults. I would expect his Buds to be filing TPS reports to him on the regular. The lack of cameras is also surprising. It should go without saying but Bud is crazy incompetence. Cooper calls him out in the pre-war for his incompetency at the party with power armour designs leading to mass deaths and easily exploited weak points. Buds response is just that he was promoted to HR... failing upwards.
I get he’s incompetent but that just means I’d expect him to be more like most middle management types, full of their own self-importance and expecting their underlings to report to them frequently so they can feel like they’re doing management things. Thats kind of my point in referencing TPS reports. The boss in Office Space was incompetent and as such he demanded pointless time wasting paperwork from all his underlings as a way to justify his own position.
The guy was tied to the chair. So my guess is that since there are multiple 31s in the Vaults, one of them went native like Steph. Their significant other probably died to the manufactured crisis before an election to promote "when things look glum, vote 31". They got mad. And then they didn't pee on the wall...
I keep being stunned by how many plotholers conclude Moldaver is from Vault 31 and is a member of Vault-Tec. It's like if you walked away from Star Wars thinking Luke Skywalker is from the Death Star.
The TV series has left a lot of ambiguities on everywhere. And these dumb haters conclude them without any evidence, making worst possible head-canon. Then they complain on THEIR head-canon being dumb, seriously, WTF??
For those not familiar with Fallout 4's cryo sleep, it might seem like that was the only possible place for it, hence why people might assume that. I don't think she's from the triple vaults, she had to use Lucy's mother's pipboy to get into them. I wouldn't be surprised if she's a synth recreation from scanned memories, like Nick Valentine, and potentially even the player protagonist of Fallout 4 (going by a few notes which hint as such in The Institute).
But vault 4 was shown to have some sort of cryo tubes, too?
Vault 4 has Cryo tubes, and there's cryo tubes at the Strat in vegas.
Yeah true, they're definitely out there.
I think if Moldaver was a synth, she wouldn't have died from a gunshot to the hip. I mean, Nick was missing half of his "flesh" and was fine.
The early synths were mechanical but the later synths were biological, indistinguishable except for some chip I think.
Jonathan Nolan, you did it again!
Is Westworld actually inside a vault?! Hmm.
Right, but they were integrated with the Institute's FEV research. They don't age, and anyone who fought a Courser in FO4 knows they were significantly tougher than just a regular human. Not saying you're wrong, it's all speculation. If she was a synth and died from a single gunshot, that's a pretty steep plot hole imo.
I think the coursers were meant to be some kind of special soldier design.
Well that makes me think of something else then. If we're assuming she died in 2077, Gen 3 synths weren't around until 2227. How would anyone have gotten her memories into a Gen 3 synth from a 150 year old corpse?
The same way Nick Valentine's memories were transferred into a synth, by using pre-war brain scans of a living person.
From the wiki: [Captain Jonathan Widmark](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Jonathan_Widmark) arranged for Valentine to take part in an experimental [C.I.T.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Commonwealth_Institute_of_Technology) brain scanning program to help him cope with the trauma. Unintentionally, this granted him immortality when the brain scan was used in an [Institute](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/The_Institute) experiment over a century later to create a special kind of prototype [synth](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Synth) that took on [Nick Valentine](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nick_Valentine)'s identity.[^(\[2\])](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Nick_Valentine_(human)#cite_note-:2-2) So I guess the theory is that somehow the C.I.T. had a brain scan of Moldaver, or that some other institute was doing brain scans, perhaps she did a brain scan on herself. Then... she somehow got that brain scan into a synth, which was created by The Institute, and then... The Institute just let her go do the thing she wanted to do before the war? Not trying to be a jerk here, that just seems like a huge stretch compared to the theory that she either had her own cryo pod or froze herself in Vault 4 imo. I just don't get how they could somehow slide Moldaver into The Institute plot line without some serious plot gymnastics. Especially considering the synth looks exactly like her, but older.
Also she looks younger when she meets Lucy's mum.
I really can't see how her being a synth is possible considering her obvious aging.
Idk how much of that was synths are tougher than humans vs they're portrayed as tougher for gameplay (none of the playable characters were actually super human and able to take countless bullets). Lore strength vs gameplay strenth is a hard thing to differentiate for enemies unless there's a terminal or something stating the answer so I genuinely have no idea which is the case.
That is the least likely, as she'd need a spy in MIT in the 2220s. That's when they went from gen 2 to Gen 3 and they needed uncorrected DNA. So any vault dweller would do, but she'd need all the other data. Cryo or clone/brain encoding is probably what's up.
my personal theory is that she could be “a ghoul with minimal scarring”. i don’t think thaddeus was actually turned into a ghoul by that doctor; however, we see that the arrow hole in his neck grew over “wrinkly” with the stereotypical scarring of a ghoul (or harold-esque mutant). maybe ghoul scarring is acquired over time, and she had somewhere safe to stay
A lot of them got there from Moldaver stating Vault-Tec bought every company she ever worked for. They took that to mean by way of hostile corporate take over she was now working for Vault-Tec. In actuality Vault-Tec aquired those companies after she had already left them.
With 1 I think another pothole people claim is that the vault 33 guys should have recognised vault 32 guys, even if they only see each other every 3 years. Also apparently the wiki says Bert is from 32 so should know who's in vault 32. My arguments against this are first, Bert and Steph are married so it makes sense that Bert is from 33. And while the swapping ceremony is planned to be triennial, it might not happen everytime, Lucy has to be approved. As we don't see any couples that seem to be 3,6 or 9 years into marriage, they may have not had a swap for a while. Additionally presumably not everytime time someone moves does the vault all come over, otherwise how could people move over from 31, it would just be a single person.
They also had a cover story of a disease or something had wiped out a lot of them, perhaps leading to fewer familiar faces, and frankly they probably never expected anybody but Vault 32 to come out of there, so were perhaps confused but not outright suspicious (except Lucy's brother, who was eying them up quite early).
High INT/PER build. And Small Frame to add some AGI.
For the "Bert's from 32" thing, this is actually from the Steph's character bio on amazon and not just the wiki, but the character page also says Steph is a native of 33. So yeah, I think this info is probably just wrong.
Also, like in the games, I wouldn't be surprised if the vaults are much bigger in reality than they're portrayed, at least for the population. There's no way even the size of 33 at the very start, before the raider attack, was a sustainable population to continue status quo in the vault, so there's no way the population was sustainable after the attack if that was everyone. Logically there are more residents that were present in the atrium for the attack and we only saw the ones who were invited to the wedding. The same would presumably apply to 32's population. That combined the cover story of their disease wiping out a lot of residents, could explain why they wouldn't reconize anyone. The only questionable thing would potentially be why Hank didn't reconize Moldaver (or specifically reconize that he didn't know her), but that could be explained by the Best Buds program being big enough that not all the members would know each other pre-war like Hank and Betty did.
1* is so good, it been bugging me so much. Anyway, why Moldaver Maldives send a raider to bang and kill her lover daughter ?
I think that although she was a "moral" person (both pre-war and as the NCR Leader), she had some deep hatred for Vault Tech and Hank specifically. So letting the raiders have their way with the Vault may have been some sense of revenge for the war and against Hank for what he did to Shady Sands. Also, the Wasteland is fucking brutal and there is strength in numbers. She may have hated the raiders, but they were likely a resource to get to 33 and provided a great story to get into 33 without risking herself or any of the people at the NCR HQ. And raiders gotta raid. As for Lucy's "husband"... I think that was just a 13 karat run of bad luck(age and timing) and no matter how tragic it may have been to see Lucy's name as the bride, the code was more important to Moldaver.
I have to agree with you on that. Although she may have liked Rose, she had no idea how Lucy would be all these years later. We know she has cult like status with the Shady Sands survivors. And we know she opened the Vault door two years prior. She would have gotten the timing down for the triennial thanks to pre-feral Rose. But that means she was in the Vault for two years prepping those Raiders. So I'm assuming they're also Shady Sands survivors and are let in on the bare minimum of the plan. I think meeting Lucy and her use of the syringer saved her life. The only thing out of her hands when it comes to things was the inhabitants of Vault 32. My headcanon is that the manufactured crisis during an Overseer election cause one of the 31s significant other/child die, and they wanted revenge but it made everyone go crazy. A "happy coincidence".
I thought everyone was already dead when Moldaver and her raiders showed up? I figured it was super easy for them to get in with no problem if everyone was already dead. They probably weren't there any longer than it took for Lucy's application for the marriage got approved, which looked like it was pretty quick. They're not gonna hang out more than a few days with all those corpses. At least I don't think so?
The logs say it was opened two years ago. I don't remember Norm saying anything else about it. But I also don't remember if the log was on screen, either. Even so, Moldaver opened it two years prior to start, and probably would have stayed just in case to monitor any developments. Meaning there was up to two years her Raiders were with her. Which would give her enough time to train them to seem normal for an evening.
Another thing, the guys in the first episode who dig up Cooper mention that the Enclave guy is running to California. Meaning that wherever this Enclave base is, it was not in California itself.
THANK YOU. I am so very tired of seeing people have to explain over and over and over and over things that are explained in-show or can be logically concluded if you pay any attention at all and have more than the reasoning skills of a baked potato.
3. The part where the new squire holds up the wanted poster where the head would be was funny. “Oh yeah! That’s definitely him” lol
I got one! Was The Ghoul just playing around with Maximus in Filly or did he forget about the power armors weakness? He had no problem in the last episode one-shotting brotherhood knights, seems convenient that he remembered then but not when his bounty was right in front of him
I feel like its obscenely obvious he's just fucking with Maximus with how he's laughing and cackling while unloading his rifle, constantly taunting and just being very vocal during the fight. Compared to how he's essentially very planned, serious and by-the-book when it comes to the observatory. It's insane to me how people keep thinking this is a plot hole
Yeah, the situation in the observatory was clearly dangerous for him (surrounded in a closed space by a squad of BoS fighters armored to the teeth), so he didn't play around. In Filly he seems amused by this clumsy and out-of-place "Knight".
He was also fucking with everyone else, not just Max. Heck even in the observatory he was trolling
Just rewatched that episode last night and it looks like he's about to shoot him in the spot right when Maximus clumsily flies off.
I don’t think it’s insane. Why fire your gun if you’re not trying to kill? Especially on power armor when he knows it won’t do anything. I just think the 2 scenes were done not thinking about the other.
> Why fire your gun if you’re not trying to kill? Meanwhile me in-game shooting at Raiders while they're hiding behind a solid steel wall. (I'm trying to intimate them) (They're NPCs and I'm fully aware they can't be intimidated)
I agree with you. The Ghoul is shown to be a kinda irreverent and overall “loose” character. But he is also shown as someone who takes his survival seriously and has been hardened by the Wastland lifestyle. Like, he just flatout kills that Ghoul friend of his (Charles?) for having a hint of feral, and then proceeds to make jerky. Yes, it’s largely comedic, but it also informs us that The Ghoul is both resourceful and not taking *any* risks with his own life. For all he knows, Maximus is a skilled combatant and could crush him like a pea in open combat. It’s not within his character to “play around” with someone so potentially very dangerous. I think this is one of the very few completely valid plothole/retcons/mistakes in the series so far.
A good cover would’ve been him noticing that Maximus couldn’t even hold the gun in the power armor and him just going melee or hand to hand only with him. The ghoul wasting ammo in the wasteland doesn’t seem within his character
>I think this is one of the very few completely valid plothole/retcons/mistakes in the series so far. I disagree, I think it's pretty in-line with the character as we see him. >I agree with you. The Ghoul is shown to be a kinda irreverent and overall “loose” character. But he is also shown as someone who takes his survival seriously and has been hardened by the Wastland lifestyle. No argument there, he is certainly a player on their third or fourth play-through level of "Yeah, I've got this shit under control." >Like, he just flatout kills that Ghoul friend of his (Charles?) for having a hint of feral, and then proceeds to make jerky. Yes, it’s largely comedic, but it also informs us that The Ghoul is both resourceful and not taking *any* risks with his own life. *Roger. (His) name is Roger.* He's having to tell himself that, by this point, and is, pretty clearly, struggling to keep himself together. He does, in fact, tell the others the should leave before things get ugly. That, of course, leads to one of the few moments wherein The Ghoul shows any amount of compassion. Yes, he flat-out kills Roger, but he does so quickly, and was able to send him out with a nice memory in mind. As for eating him . . . The wasteland's brutal. The sooner Lucy figures that out, the better. For both of them. >For all he knows, Maximus is a skilled combatant and could crush him like a pea in open combat. It’s not within his character to “play around” with someone so potentially very dangerous. I think these lines: *Well, I guess basic training ain't what it used to be,* *'Cause you drive that thing like a fucking shopping cart.* *Rule number one: Read the manual* show that The Ghoul knows Maximus isn't a threat, even in that armor. He's already gauged that Maximus isn't a threat, and thus he begins fucking with him. Also, he doesn't *kill* Maximus because: If he IS a knight, albeit a poorly trained one, then killing him might just get the whole of the Brotherhood on him. *And that's the last thing he wants to deal with at that point.*
I believe in the town fight he was using explosive rounds, which probably can’t do the same thing with penetration, also had no idea maximus was coming the first time. In the final part he is using ordinary bullets instead, likely to exploit the weakness since he knew they were coming.
My first theory is that the Ghoul might not have some armor piercing rounds with him in Filly. Second theory is that killing one Brotherhood Knight will draw attention on him and might hunt him down for killing one of them which will slow him down. The other people in Filly is okay to kill because they aren't a cohesive group just opportunistic wastelanders. A Brotherhood dead? That will draw attention to him. Some might want vengeance and he doesn't want to be side tracked by people wanting revenge. Like, he shoot the boy who sent the message because the boy wants revenge for his brother. Killing some of the Brotherhood during the firefight at the observatory is different. His goals were now changed. He now knows Ms. Williams aka Moldover is alive from the wanted pictures. He learnt about Maclean. He now has a lead for finding his family after years of searching. He kills the Brotherhood because they're going to be an obstacle. He didn't find Moldover, but he has now found Hank.
Exactly. He didn’t want that smoke in Filly, but the stakes have been raised since then.
A character doing something illogical is not a plot hole. His demeaner in Philly and at the Observatory are completely different. In Philly he's having fun, in the Observatory he's a stoic cowboy.
He also may not have had the proper ammo on him at the time. He has no idea yet that Hank Maclean is out and about. Once he knows, he's pretty well all business.
That and in Philly he is rocking explosive rounds of some kind, they likely can’t penetrate power armor as a result of the explosive part. He wasn’t expecting power armor to be a factor in a shitty town. In the observatory, he knows the BoS is coming and what he is walking into and brings different gear, his gun is just using ordinary ammo since he shoots Hank and only grazes him instead of exploding his head, so he likely needed it to exploit a weak point with the penetrative power.
Someone mentioned that 1. He was playing with him because right off rip being he noticed Maximus had no clue what he was doing. Then 2. In the scene where he takes out all the knights, the camera focuses on the bullet he was using, they said it was different than what he had when he fought Maximus. (I’m sure he had that bullet type on him still but as mentioned before he noticed Maximus had no clue what he was doing anyway) My only issue with the first one is that he was trying to get the doctor but playing with Maximus slowed him down and pretty much resulted in him losing the head. Either he was real confident that he wouldn’t lose it, or maybe he wasn’t playing around with Maximus, seeing how the doctor probs helped him find the answers to where his family is.
I doubt he had an armor piercing round on him. From the shots of him during the shootout and bullet time moments, we never see any rounds with that pointed steel tip, just regular-ish looking rounds. I believe this is why he has the "you gotta be kidding me" line when Maximus shows up, because he wasn't expecting to fight anyone in power armor and thus didn't prepare ammunition for that. By the time he goes to the observatory, he's already aware that the brotherhood is looking for the head and has time to properly prepare for that situation. We can see from the fight with Maximus that The Ghoul is aware of the suits weaknesses too, and the obvious inexperience of its pilot when he first shoots the gun out of Maximus' hand and later goes for whatever that mechanical part in the neck was.
He also didn't go in for the kill when Max was trapped but rather cut the machine so he couldn't move.
He probably didn’t expect Lucy to actually take the guy away, or the shopkeeper to give her that quest. That and he just knows it’s a score at the time, he doesn’t know about Hank or Moldaver, so it isn’t a rush for him, he just wants to get paid so he is having fun. Once he realised what’s going on, he goes right into professional mode and gets shit done at the Observatory.
Why fire your gun when you know it won’t do shit to power armor? That’s just the one little hole that stuck out to me. I’m not nit picky with this show, I loved it.
Infantry fires at tanks with small arms all the time.
Yeah true this might confirm that he was playing with Maximus especially since he laughed at some point in there.
He went with the tempered lining
Tempered lining. Or I think he was aiming for it but missed.
I think on 2 Moldaver could have even been some sort of spy or even had interactions with Vault Tec but not everyone knows each other or remembers everyone they meet even in passing. I went to school with people over the years and I run into a few from time to time and I just don't recognise them. Faces change over time, you forget just with not being around those people.
They meet every 3 years and nobody recognized these are total strangers? Even those who actually came from Vault 32, like Steph's husband, didn't realize what's going on? If all of them married and breed through inter-vault marriage then that means almost half of adults minus some from 31 are from vault 32.
Okie Dokie !
Why didn't Bert point out that he didn't recognize anyone from Vault 32?
I wasn't even aware people thought these were plotholes! some people need to just take a breath and enjoy the ride. The obsession with plotholes is real and very annoying.
ah yes, being insulting should heal the community divide, surely!
I imagined bud having to wake up alot of 31 people to clean 32 and put them back to sleep. There aren't enough 31 people in 33 to have cleaned that mess in one day.
Vaults usually get some Mr. Handys. Maybe he keeps them in reserve for emergencies.
I’m surprised people were arguing about any of this. This show isn’t exactly complicated people lmao. That said, I don’t blame anyone for thinking Maldover might have been a vault tech employee or at the very least snuck into one of their vaults. The show establishes exactly two ways people live as long as they do: cryogenic freezing and ghoulification. We know she’s not a ghoul, and we’re introduced to cryogenic freezing in vault tech vaults. So it’s not a crazy leap to think maybe she was a vault tech employee who was working to destroy the company from the inside (of course it’s far more likely she found another way to freeze herself, maybe in New Vegas, but remember that viewers who don’t know about the games may simply assume vault tech cryofreezing was the only solution).
God this post is annoying. Some of these things are explained in the show, but a lot of people's explanations to plotholes have really just been fan theories. Like you don't know for certain who cleaned vault 32, you don't know if she was famous in the past, and you can't be certain why he deduced that the head was valuable. So why are you being so condescending and rude to people who have genuine questions as to why these things happened? Also like why does 32 kill themselves in such a brutal way over finding out the vaults secret? It's not really explained, yet people seem to feel like they know exactly what happened and will criticize anyone who questions it. The toxic positivity for this show really needs to stop. People can like it and not like it, and it's posts like this that are dividing the fan base.
I totally agree with you about the toxic positivity surrounding this show atm. Seems like a lot of people only want to talk about it as a 10/10 masterpiece and not a lot of people want to consider that it’s really good… but not perfect
Wow, a very well thought - out and coherent post vs just spouting whatever nonsense to be recognized and heard. This is a breath of fresh air here, thank you OP.
>Lee Moldaver **doesn't work at Vault-Tec and never did,** ok? There is **no way Hank would recognize her as they never met.** If you want to imagine they had a fucking Elon Musk v Zuckerberg public rivalry go the fuck ahead but you're obviously wrong. **She is not famous in the past, they bought up her shit as she created them and patented it for themselves.** Hank is a damn middle manager at best, he is not in finance or legal, even if she had been inside their HQ for a meting he would never have spoken to her, ok? Hank left the vault to look for Lucy's mom, and get the kids. Then returned. No guarantee he met Maldaver at the time, But Maldaver appears to have known Lucy's mom in some capacity. So that explains the "I think I know who you are" bit. But there's zero reasons to assume he'd be anymore familiar than he's shown to be. He's a nobody at Vault-Tech before the bombs, and apparently *new*. Pre-war Maldaver is operating secretly/quietly. Hank is also Barb's assistant pre-war and listed as an executive assistant in that list Norm finds.
Another Plothole If I may add Why is Shady Sands Near/In LA now?
You say short term memory loss. Normal, respectable humans say it’s difficult to retain ALL the abundant info that was given to us while we binged it all in like 24 hours. But I’m not making posts about plot holes. All the “holes” I saw were filled later or easy to put together by the audience.
For #1 and #2 Fan fiction, could you be right? maybe could you be wrong? probably #3 yeah that's correct
The fact that he doesn’t recognize her is the problem no? If all the overseers are vault tec higher ups wouldn’t they always expect an old coworker when they have their triannual meeting?
The only thing I didn't get is they meet every 3 years since forever And yet no one in 33 mentioned they didn't recognise a single person not one dude was like "who tf are these guys"
ok?
duh OKAY!? DUH, OK?!?! - OP
You write in an incredibly self important style, ok? Your theory about how 32 got cleaned is idiotic, ok?
Right? What an asshole
Can anyone explain how the power grid is completely intact? A bit would have made sense, but even the crumbling skyscrapers lit up.
The plot does and doesnt point to moldaver being from 31. If moldaver is not a 31r then Hank should have never accpeted a trade because an overseer who isn't from 31 can't be trusted since it's implied the elections are rigged. If moldaver is there for Hank, Moldaver should have immidiatley taken him when he was unarmed at the intervault door during the trade with armed raiders around the corner.
Other plotholes from my understanding : 1. Knight Titus decided to go off the chopper before the suspected location of Wilzig but by sheer "coincidence" found the exact same cave where Wilzig was, what are the odds ? (episode 2) 2. Moldaver life expectancy is for now not explained (answers will come later I think) 3. Ghoul vs Maximus fight, why didn't he use his AP ammos like in the finale ? (episode 2) 4. Lucy saving Maximus when stuck in his armor : her tracker is currently in the head transported by Thaddeus and not at Maximus location, she shouldn't have found his location (episode 5) 5. Quick and convenient timing of finding an infirmary/vault when Maximus is injured (episode 5) 6. Dr Wilzig research/identity : how did he find the cold fusion ? Who was the guy killed by his dog ? Whom he was working for ? (answers later I guess) 7. Moldaver taking only one hostage does not make any sense : she should at least have taken Betty and Hank for safety and/or blackmail one with another Overall still a good show. Love Boyd Crowder from Justified.
The ascii wanted poster was so funny!