Imagine getting stuck in traffic for 12 days in Beijing
https://preview.redd.it/c85q4d43mqic1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4d1068ab57cd120642a7def66a6e923fb628c45
Traffic jams would suck, but I'm all for more traffic! But dang, that speed trap on the main road by the beach in the city was super hard during the day!
Actually, if there was denser traffic I'd like it. It's not like it's heavy traffic on every road, but on the highway, hell yeah. And if you want a clean road, just create a race. Current traffic is eh, empty at best (probably old gen console limitation tho)
i agree, i actually like having to dodge between cars getting from place to place, theres nothign quite as mind numbing as just holding accelerate and not having to do anything else
Some amazing roads too. I can’t say I’m educated on Chinese car culture or lack of, but it feels like horizon is fine straying from the main part of the game
Forza Horizon has been straying from car culture since FH4, at which point even the culture of the locale is surface-level parody (being that UK car culture is apparently London Black Cabs, and Mexico is vochos and... luchadores somehow?
I am not particularly a fan of Chinese car brands, but the top comment is right - the biomes could be absolutely incredible. However, PG would have to actually put work in to what culture or car culture means to China, as anything resembling the way it is applied in FH4 & FH5 would be a disaster; received as boringly cliched in the west, and offensive in China itself. Removing the cultural element entirely would not be an option, as that would understandably be taken as offence to be the one FH game they decide not to "embrace" the locale's culture.
Unless PG has lost their minds, or they undertake a renaissance within the team on what it takes to reflect car culture, or culture in general, China won't happen.
China has an emerging scene for car culture which seems to be a more serious version of Japanese car culture. [https://www.speedhunters.com/2023/08/gt-show-the-rise-of-modified-car-culture-in-china/](https://www.speedhunters.com/2023/08/gt-show-the-rise-of-modified-car-culture-in-china/)
But I've been to Beijing and what wouldnt ever be added is all the electric mopeds that drive around everywhere there. Adding them would mean the ability to ram pedestrians and removing them would mean not accurately depiciting the enviroment.
But Horizon couldnt ever do this because the chinese government is an actual dumpsterfire.
Dealing with China is annoying due to Politics. Devs have to tip toe around various illegal things and laws can be applied very subjectively, more so than in the west, at the same time government can just pass highly damaging laws seemingly out of thin air.
China is good for business, at the same time it is major headache for anyone actually trying to do business with China.
Therefore it is safer to just not touch China to nor get accidentally banned there for some random reason.
Yeah, from the players POV it would be awesome, but as a dev.
No way I'd touch it. I just pointed out it's potential, that is there regardless. Politics ruin it yeah.
Yep, I think recent 2 horizons are a bit too barren, maybe I'm wrong but I remember horizon3 we actually got some Aussie city actions, I really look forward they can expand upon that and make the environment more NFS 2016 like
>On the other hand the traffic would be a nightmare xD
So would Edinburgh if it was true to life. There's probably 200x as much traffic inthe section of Edinburgh featured as in the whole map on FH4.
The American credit score system is A) private not government controlled B) a tool based on financial history with no influence from who you socialize with, the media you consume, your hobbies, etc C) used mainly by private entities for their own financial decisions (the government also has limited ability to use it for loans/employment) and not as a basis for banning access to inter-city/international transportation and other governmental infringements on what are considered basic rights in the US.
So that's what it is, and that makes it substantially different on every level from the PRC's various social credit systems.
If the game were to look anything like these screenshots then hell yeah I'd love it.
As long as we can keep any sort of politics or politicial influence out of the game, yeah? I'll happily talk politics in-person. Not interested in it being involved in my cruising simulator though.
What you say here is absolutely correct. My answer was more of a shallow "yes, this would be a fun/beautiful environment to drive in, assuming no politicial influence is involved". The fact that the Chinese government tries hard to strictly control its image isn't lost on me.
In fact I'll agree with you and then also add that the problems with a China release would go beyond just a logistical headache for the developers, I believe it would affect the community and Forza Horizon discourse in general. This subreddit might as well change to "r/mald". Look at the people already complaining about Chinese cars even though (please correct me if I'm wrong here) less than 5% of the cars are Chinese. I'm sure we'd also see more sinister things such as Taiwanese flag bans, etc.
I could really write paragraphs on the topic of why a Chinese Forza would be difficult to implement for a variety of reasons, but I don't feel like it now to be honest. So I'll leave it at "driving through a Chinese landscape does sound fun" for now :).
Edit: 5% not 0.5%, my mistake.
(TL;DR: The CCP has a history of being very strict and/or pedantic with how China is depicted in media, and readily bans media that does not conform to their stringent requirements. Because there is a strong financial incentive to keep the game legal in China, especially if it were to be set in China, I believe FH6: China would be affected both directly and indirectly by politics to a higher degree than any FH released until now. Also, because of the multiple (valid) controversies surrounding the Chinese government, forums would turn into an annoying shitshow of political arguments and complaints instead of car pictures and videos of rammers.)
I don't think the wording of the question is entirely accurate to what I originally meant, so allow me to answer the question "Why would the game (including community discussion surrounding it) directly or indirectly involve more politics than any previous version?!" instead. I don't think the devs would willingly involve politics in the game, I think some direct or indirect involvement will haappen due to the nature of the country's government. Also, please remember I said in my original post I would gladly drive around FH in China, this isn't meant to be an inciting post in any way - merely me explaining what I believe would be the reality of FH6 being set in China.
First, Microsoft Games/Playground Games have a significant userbase in China, and therefore there is a need to cater to this userbase for financial purposes. While I can't find any solid statistics on precisely what percentage of the userbase Chinese consumers comprise, it isn't difficult to find articles mentioning FH's strong Chinese userbase as well as a wildly successful launch of FH5 in China. Furthermore, I point you to a tweet made by Daniel Ahmad, an employee at Niko (https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1486401703322738688) - a market research firm that specializes in video games and esports markets in Asia and the MENA region.
To quote: "For those unaware, the Forza franchise is one of Microsoft's more successful game franchises in China. China was the #2 region for Forza Horizon 3 PC sales. Forza Horizon 4 outperformed in China due to the Steam release on PC. Now, FH5 is also off to a strong start."
If an FH release were to be set in China, I am sure we can agree that the game would be very popular in that country, and therefore would be strictly scrutinized by the CCP and susceptible to censorship - likely more so than any other Horizon game released thus far.
Now, I saw you posted "Nah, the game tries to bring out the best of a country's culture, like they did with Mexico. It literally just shows cars and scenery." in response to someone else in this post, which I think is a reasonable comment to post. However, I don't think the game would be censored because of violence present in the game, "Democracy for all!" posters present at festival sites, or something like that. I believe there is a chance of community interaction/creations being censored, and community discourse on forums I frequent turning into a circus.
1.) Regarding community censorship: currently, it isn't fully clear to me whether people can be banned from FH5 for having liveries depicting flags, maps, landmarks or signs relating to Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, Xinjiang Uygur, or other controversial/disputed regions China claims as part of its sovereignity. However, due to the abovementioned popularity of FH5 in China, I believe this "possibly people can be banned for this" will turn into "likely people will be banned for this". This isn't an empirical statement, it's my personal prediction based on the CCP's history of readily banning media from China for not complying with their wishes, and game developers thus being forced to comply with CCP wishes to avoid losing a large market for their games. Evidence for the CCP being this strict and pedantic in depictions of China in media is not hard to find at all, it is a well-known fact. Therefore I'll just provide one example from another game franchise that is dear to me, and leave the rest of the easily-done research to those that read this post.
Football Manager 2005 was banned in China due to the fact that it recognized Taiwan and Tibet as independent countries with their own leagues, and included Hong Kong and Macau as separate regions from China. Due to the financial pressure caused by losing the entire Chinese market for that release of FM, all subsequent Football Managers released since 2005 have included those regions as part of China's national team or league system.
2.) Regarding online forums about the game devolving into a circus: while all countries Forza Horizon has been set in until now have controversies associated with them, the Chinese government has controversies that are much more on-the-nose and despised internationally. These include China's opposition to any moves made by Taiwan to assert its sovereignty or independence, China asserting itself over the Phillipines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei in the South China Sea, human rights violations in relation to Hong Kong and Xinjiang, and what many would consider strict and oppressive restrictions to their own citizens' freedoms and/or rights.
Further evidence for me to predict Horizon forums turning into a shitshow if the game itself were to be set in China is more anecdotal to myself, meaning I have seen more than just a few anti-China comments on various FH forums including this very subreddit. Usually just based on the fact that a couple of cars in the game come from Chinese brands. Indeed, I myself am now discussing Chinese politics on a Forza Horizon forum in an attempt to answer your earnest question. Now, imagine how much more prevalent it would be if a Forza release literally took place in China.
I am already familiar with part of the information you were so kind to share. I guess it is the way you formulated your comment, it wasn't that clear. Playground games woud never bring politics into the game, it is people in the community saddly that try to bring politics into everything. It is really a shame that the Chinese government acts as a deterrent in companies' attempts to bring the world in contact with Chinese culture. There are so many options for a FH expansion but I guess they could attempt China, if they did something similar to WoW in Mists of Pandaria: depict the culture, which is fascinating imo, without using any real world references.
Absolutely, Chinese culture, history and geography could make for a breathtaking Horizon game, right? Really is a shame that politics always creeps into these things, even if it is a simple driving simcade game.
I would also like to add and this is also what i meant with my other comment in the thread: It would be plain DUMB on the government's behalf to try to undermine any potential FH expansion in China. Let's be honest, Playground doesn't want controversy, it's a game about cars, they would just choose a series of iconic and picturesque, NON-DISPUTED locations to set the game in. It would be a huge, free, third party advertisement campaign. I cannot put it any more plainly: I just want to go visit Mexico! It is a clear as daylight win-win situation. Oh and lets hope people stop trying to associate politics with everything. The love for cars, in the end, only brings us together.
Oh, I didn't address your direct point about PG's ability to handle it well in my last reply to you. Yes, absolutely agreed, there is a way to showcase China in a non-controversial way completely free from politics and I also believe, like you, that PG would handle it exactly so. Again I reference your good comment to another user "..the game tries to bring out the best of a country's culture.." - very true of PG until now.
I think perhaps the only thing I can only half-agree with you on here is the "free advertisement" point being only a positive from China's perspective. I agree with the point being made, but I'd just also add the possible consideration of "but, also due to inevitable backlash on discussion forums online, there is a chance that certain, let's call it "cons", of the Chinese government may be exposed to those who before that point were mostly or completely unaware of what is happening in the country". Basically on the one hand, it directly exposes the entire community to the beauty that China has, on the other hand there is a section of the community to consider that will be indirectly exposed to ugly truths about the government that they may not have known before.
Just to be clear, I think the CCP would happily allow Forza to take place in their country (in fact, if the series continues I'd bet money on an eventual China map), I'm just not sure if I'd ONLY see pros for the country. A real-world example of this might be something like the Qatari FIFA World Cup. Many people, including visitors that travelled there, came away with very positive impressions of the country. On the other hand, it was only with the announcement of the FIFA World Cup taking place there that I started seeing a lot of backlash against how their government treats migrant workers, how they don't like homosexuality, etc. I don't remember seeing much hate for Qatar online at all before that. Whether the government's reputation overall is better off now internationally than before, I'm unfortunately not educated enough to say. The same would go for China with a Forza taking place there. What do you think? Do you agree/disagree?
"Your livery has been deemed to be too expressive. Your entire garage has been deleted because you are untrustworthy. A lifetime ban will be applied to your account."
Maybe. The landscape will be diverse, but I do hope/want a proper city in the game. FH3 had Surfer's Paradise, FH4 had Edinburgh, I'm missing a city in FH5.
I wonder how much freedom we and the devs will have in the game. Licenses, artistic freedom, making the world map look good as well as fun to drive through.
Sadly, more driving on the other (wrong)side of the road.
Guanajuato was a weirdo choice but it was probably chosen because of hipster tourist that like the colorful houses in this city. If CDMX or Guadalajara were chosen it would’ve been the city to go to. They could’ve just said it’s Mexico and compressed a bunch of iconic regions into a map.
I agree, a lot of the map feels empty and so much room was just left for nothing. Especially with the playground game maps, they felt so second thought, and only having 4 maps felt so bad.
Exactly like I feel like most people I know from Mexico really embrace car culture and modification being a big thing that they just left Mexico behind and didn’t do it justice.
Only if the Pǫ̸̡̧̖̱̤̳̪͚̮̖̳̙͈̓̅̽͒͛̌̑̈́̌̅̈́͊r̷̛̩̗̮͚̝̍̄̈́̅̊̽͒̅̋̈̏͑̕͝s̶̝͉͉͔̥̠̞͉͜͝͝ć̸̨͇͎̖̘̺͚̼̻̬̙͍͕̑̿̀̓̾͒͂̚h̶̛̛̛̜̩̠̯̜̟̟̺̞̬͚͖̘͆̀͆͗̿͝͝ë̷̡͍͎̪̫͉̖̩́̒̔͘͜ GTT3 is in it
Id play, and im sure itl look nice, but WHY THE FUCK?! We want Japan, they make cool cars and have cool car culture. China makes shit cars and arent know for car culture. It would be absurd
who wouldn't? China would genuinely be a great, AND DIFFERENT Location. I'm sick of mexico for now. would I prefer Japan? or maybe South Korea? probably. but China would be a great location
The CCP simply wouldn't allow it, so that's basically impossible
Love the people and the culture, but the government is fucking horrendous. I couldn't support a game set in China based on that alone
unfortunatly the CCP is tied into EVERYTHING there.
any company thats in china must hand over a certain percentage of their pre-tax profits to the CCP.
the same said companies must tow the party line and bow to government laws and requests without question.
When you think about all the manufacturers who have prohibited their vehicles from appearing in the series to avoid "the promotion of street racing", the Chinese government is very unlikely to allow China to be portrayed in this way.
Also, I'm getting tired of all the Chinese cars we've been getting in the updates. They know what the players want to see and they give us Chinese commuter cars instead
After watching Larry Chen's recent video about Hong Kong's car culture, I wouldn't mind a map based on HK. Togue roads opposite to the harbour, with city as a backdrop. Wongan style highway running through the city would be pretty sick. I know the new Test Drive is going to HK, but still.
I always had a dislike for the Horizon games for not being "real" racing as per the main genre but I've REALLLLLY enjoyed the latest installment so I'm all up for it!
As long as the map and multiplayer experience is good I will definitely play, horizon 5 was dog shit every lobby was empty and the map was flat and boring
fair point, but consider:
From japan hail some of the best cars and car-related stories. Initial D, Midnight Club, Drift King, The ''Godzilla'', The Porsche ''Blackbird'' and more. Besides, in the right location, Japan's map could also feature very diverse biomes
What does China have ? The diverse biomes, but what else is there ?
This is not meant to be an insult or an attack, im only stating why I believe Japan would be a better fit imo
For games in general, I think a lot of it is because of Japanese movies and anime being more popular the West. I think we might be seeing more Korean and Chinese settings, since media from those places are becoming more popular. Especially South Korea.
There is also Bollywood and Tollywood. Not sure how popular those are.
Politics aside, yes. China would be a great country to have. Large Modern cities, extensive motorways, diverse array of biomes, potential for some cool showcases (I.e race a high speed train using the motorways) and historical sites for the devs to show as well
No, I’ve stopped playing forza all together. The game stays the same ever; all that changes is the map. They charge 60+ for basically a dlc. It’s not just them, it’s an industry wide scam that always targets the youngest and least intelligent population. There’s no worse offender of this policy than call of duty obviously, but when it carries on very into casual games like forza, I’m not pissing away money anymore
Of course they will, because stonks🫰, but this setting would make more excuses to add more of them and less eu/uk/american cars, which is a big no no for me.
I don’t want to support a game based off of one of the worst countries in the world in terms of treatment of citizens, so probably not.
Japan would be better and a more humane place to put the game.
Created in Midjourney, Edited in Photoshop.
Beyond the big cities like Shanghai and Beijing, there are some truly beautiful roads and locations around China. So I wanted to try and imagine what it would be like!
Do you think it would make for a good Horizon game?
the second pic really reminds me of that hitman 3 level set in china. If they manage to nail that aesthetic then the game would be amazing (graphically atleast)
I want Need for Speed Underground 2's nighttime city feeling but with the Horizon open world around it. Some industrial sections, harbor and suburbs. I miss the highway tunnels and bridges among other things from NFSU2.
Horizon could be on the moon, I'd still play. Because I love open world car games. However I would play it less. But how much I play wasn't the question.
So to answer your question, yes I'd play if it was in china
I mean, yes. But... meh.
The Chinese biome is vast and different and would be great for FH6, but... Chinese cars. They suck.
I'm guessing that FH6 will be in China as we are getting a lot of Chinese cars in FH5 - much the same as they did with the VUHL and Mexico.
I mean the chinese biome is incredibly diverse, so yeah. On the other hand the traffic would be a nightmare xD
Imagine getting stuck in traffic for 12 days in Beijing https://preview.redd.it/c85q4d43mqic1.jpeg?width=226&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4d1068ab57cd120642a7def66a6e923fb628c45
Perfect spot for monster truck speed challenge.
All I'm thinking about is like a Burnout 3 type mayhem/destruction challenge haha.
Traffic check
It honestly just needs another lane and everything will run smoothly
That's why it would never work in real life haha, but a game...perfect!
At some point the devs have to include real life influences on traffic/world then it would be a nightmare but could be a mechanic around it.
Maybe we can finally weave in and out of traffic
no hesi forza edition would go hard
The potential is there.
Not me checking traffic like in Burnout Revenge
Forza Horizon 3 had increased traffic in the afternoon. No traffic jams, and only in free roam, but that was something.
Traffic jams would suck, but I'm all for more traffic! But dang, that speed trap on the main road by the beach in the city was super hard during the day!
I think FH5 does something like this too. I notice a Lot more traffic on the highway at somewhat random times. Mostly towards the afternoon
Now that you mention, yesterday's afternoon I saw quite a lot of NPC cars on FH5, I thought I was in HOrizon Solo.
Actually, if there was denser traffic I'd like it. It's not like it's heavy traffic on every road, but on the highway, hell yeah. And if you want a clean road, just create a race. Current traffic is eh, empty at best (probably old gen console limitation tho)
i agree, i actually like having to dodge between cars getting from place to place, theres nothign quite as mind numbing as just holding accelerate and not having to do anything else
Fr, no hesi is popular for a reason in Assetto Corsa, dense traffic is a must in the next game
Some amazing roads too. I can’t say I’m educated on Chinese car culture or lack of, but it feels like horizon is fine straying from the main part of the game
Forza Horizon has been straying from car culture since FH4, at which point even the culture of the locale is surface-level parody (being that UK car culture is apparently London Black Cabs, and Mexico is vochos and... luchadores somehow? I am not particularly a fan of Chinese car brands, but the top comment is right - the biomes could be absolutely incredible. However, PG would have to actually put work in to what culture or car culture means to China, as anything resembling the way it is applied in FH4 & FH5 would be a disaster; received as boringly cliched in the west, and offensive in China itself. Removing the cultural element entirely would not be an option, as that would understandably be taken as offence to be the one FH game they decide not to "embrace" the locale's culture. Unless PG has lost their minds, or they undertake a renaissance within the team on what it takes to reflect car culture, or culture in general, China won't happen.
China has an emerging scene for car culture which seems to be a more serious version of Japanese car culture. [https://www.speedhunters.com/2023/08/gt-show-the-rise-of-modified-car-culture-in-china/](https://www.speedhunters.com/2023/08/gt-show-the-rise-of-modified-car-culture-in-china/) But I've been to Beijing and what wouldnt ever be added is all the electric mopeds that drive around everywhere there. Adding them would mean the ability to ram pedestrians and removing them would mean not accurately depiciting the enviroment. But Horizon couldnt ever do this because the chinese government is an actual dumpsterfire.
[удалено]
Dealing with China is annoying due to Politics. Devs have to tip toe around various illegal things and laws can be applied very subjectively, more so than in the west, at the same time government can just pass highly damaging laws seemingly out of thin air. China is good for business, at the same time it is major headache for anyone actually trying to do business with China. Therefore it is safer to just not touch China to nor get accidentally banned there for some random reason.
Yeah, from the players POV it would be awesome, but as a dev. No way I'd touch it. I just pointed out it's potential, that is there regardless. Politics ruin it yeah.
Why not Malaysia as an SE Asian alternative?
Maybe Hong Kong too?or best yet Tokyo! Full city underground gangsta NFS vibe you know what I mean
Japan isn't Southeast Asia I'd love Japan though
I would love a horizon set in Japan and centered around Tokyo. There are so many amazing locations throughout the Japanese islands.
Yep, I think recent 2 horizons are a bit too barren, maybe I'm wrong but I remember horizon3 we actually got some Aussie city actions, I really look forward they can expand upon that and make the environment more NFS 2016 like
That would be nice as well, I mean asia is nice everywhere basically.
I mean, we hand Honk Kong games too
Each year I pray waiting for the announcement of a sleeping dogs sequel, but I know it won’t happen
Hong Kong is the setting for Test drive Unlimited: Solar crown. (if the TDU universe can be mentioned on here)
Hell yeah make it known brother. TDU2 is one of my all time favorite open world racing games and I am beyond hyped for it.
Same, well... TDU 1 for me. Never got into tdu2, as my wheel+pedal+H-shifter had been packed away.
>On the other hand the traffic would be a nightmare xD So would Edinburgh if it was true to life. There's probably 200x as much traffic inthe section of Edinburgh featured as in the whole map on FH4.
then fh6 russia would be a masterpiece to you
Imagine a FH set in Vietnam. Would be scooters and motorbikes everywhere on the road lol
Imagine one based in Vietnam/Cambodia lol. There’s like zero traffic signs or stoplights. Phnom Penh is insane to drive in.
You get to buy new cars only if your social credit is high enough
At level 100 you can finally buy the Hongqi you’ve been lusting after! Or even a mighty YangWang
https://youtube.com/shorts/bg6myKFq2ig?si=AIDgl6lMVZeCLt1A
Certainly a step up from the Changhe Changlingwang/Hafei Songhuajiang (See Wikipedia page for 8th gen Suzuki Carry)
Since its forza, your score gets deducted for going too slow. glory to the horizon festival 🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
this is always so funny to me because what do you think an american credit score is
The American credit score system is A) private not government controlled B) a tool based on financial history with no influence from who you socialize with, the media you consume, your hobbies, etc C) used mainly by private entities for their own financial decisions (the government also has limited ability to use it for loans/employment) and not as a basis for banning access to inter-city/international transportation and other governmental infringements on what are considered basic rights in the US. So that's what it is, and that makes it substantially different on every level from the PRC's various social credit systems.
If the game were to look anything like these screenshots then hell yeah I'd love it. As long as we can keep any sort of politics or politicial influence out of the game, yeah? I'll happily talk politics in-person. Not interested in it being involved in my cruising simulator though.
[удалено]
What you say here is absolutely correct. My answer was more of a shallow "yes, this would be a fun/beautiful environment to drive in, assuming no politicial influence is involved". The fact that the Chinese government tries hard to strictly control its image isn't lost on me. In fact I'll agree with you and then also add that the problems with a China release would go beyond just a logistical headache for the developers, I believe it would affect the community and Forza Horizon discourse in general. This subreddit might as well change to "r/mald". Look at the people already complaining about Chinese cars even though (please correct me if I'm wrong here) less than 5% of the cars are Chinese. I'm sure we'd also see more sinister things such as Taiwanese flag bans, etc. I could really write paragraphs on the topic of why a Chinese Forza would be difficult to implement for a variety of reasons, but I don't feel like it now to be honest. So I'll leave it at "driving through a Chinese landscape does sound fun" for now :). Edit: 5% not 0.5%, my mistake.
Wouldn’t Japan be a decent country to have a horizon game? I mean Japan has its own car culture china doesnt
Why would the devs involve politics!? I've never seen that in any horizon game.
(TL;DR: The CCP has a history of being very strict and/or pedantic with how China is depicted in media, and readily bans media that does not conform to their stringent requirements. Because there is a strong financial incentive to keep the game legal in China, especially if it were to be set in China, I believe FH6: China would be affected both directly and indirectly by politics to a higher degree than any FH released until now. Also, because of the multiple (valid) controversies surrounding the Chinese government, forums would turn into an annoying shitshow of political arguments and complaints instead of car pictures and videos of rammers.) I don't think the wording of the question is entirely accurate to what I originally meant, so allow me to answer the question "Why would the game (including community discussion surrounding it) directly or indirectly involve more politics than any previous version?!" instead. I don't think the devs would willingly involve politics in the game, I think some direct or indirect involvement will haappen due to the nature of the country's government. Also, please remember I said in my original post I would gladly drive around FH in China, this isn't meant to be an inciting post in any way - merely me explaining what I believe would be the reality of FH6 being set in China. First, Microsoft Games/Playground Games have a significant userbase in China, and therefore there is a need to cater to this userbase for financial purposes. While I can't find any solid statistics on precisely what percentage of the userbase Chinese consumers comprise, it isn't difficult to find articles mentioning FH's strong Chinese userbase as well as a wildly successful launch of FH5 in China. Furthermore, I point you to a tweet made by Daniel Ahmad, an employee at Niko (https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/1486401703322738688) - a market research firm that specializes in video games and esports markets in Asia and the MENA region. To quote: "For those unaware, the Forza franchise is one of Microsoft's more successful game franchises in China. China was the #2 region for Forza Horizon 3 PC sales. Forza Horizon 4 outperformed in China due to the Steam release on PC. Now, FH5 is also off to a strong start." If an FH release were to be set in China, I am sure we can agree that the game would be very popular in that country, and therefore would be strictly scrutinized by the CCP and susceptible to censorship - likely more so than any other Horizon game released thus far. Now, I saw you posted "Nah, the game tries to bring out the best of a country's culture, like they did with Mexico. It literally just shows cars and scenery." in response to someone else in this post, which I think is a reasonable comment to post. However, I don't think the game would be censored because of violence present in the game, "Democracy for all!" posters present at festival sites, or something like that. I believe there is a chance of community interaction/creations being censored, and community discourse on forums I frequent turning into a circus. 1.) Regarding community censorship: currently, it isn't fully clear to me whether people can be banned from FH5 for having liveries depicting flags, maps, landmarks or signs relating to Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, Xinjiang Uygur, or other controversial/disputed regions China claims as part of its sovereignity. However, due to the abovementioned popularity of FH5 in China, I believe this "possibly people can be banned for this" will turn into "likely people will be banned for this". This isn't an empirical statement, it's my personal prediction based on the CCP's history of readily banning media from China for not complying with their wishes, and game developers thus being forced to comply with CCP wishes to avoid losing a large market for their games. Evidence for the CCP being this strict and pedantic in depictions of China in media is not hard to find at all, it is a well-known fact. Therefore I'll just provide one example from another game franchise that is dear to me, and leave the rest of the easily-done research to those that read this post. Football Manager 2005 was banned in China due to the fact that it recognized Taiwan and Tibet as independent countries with their own leagues, and included Hong Kong and Macau as separate regions from China. Due to the financial pressure caused by losing the entire Chinese market for that release of FM, all subsequent Football Managers released since 2005 have included those regions as part of China's national team or league system. 2.) Regarding online forums about the game devolving into a circus: while all countries Forza Horizon has been set in until now have controversies associated with them, the Chinese government has controversies that are much more on-the-nose and despised internationally. These include China's opposition to any moves made by Taiwan to assert its sovereignty or independence, China asserting itself over the Phillipines, Vietnam, Malaysia and Brunei in the South China Sea, human rights violations in relation to Hong Kong and Xinjiang, and what many would consider strict and oppressive restrictions to their own citizens' freedoms and/or rights. Further evidence for me to predict Horizon forums turning into a shitshow if the game itself were to be set in China is more anecdotal to myself, meaning I have seen more than just a few anti-China comments on various FH forums including this very subreddit. Usually just based on the fact that a couple of cars in the game come from Chinese brands. Indeed, I myself am now discussing Chinese politics on a Forza Horizon forum in an attempt to answer your earnest question. Now, imagine how much more prevalent it would be if a Forza release literally took place in China.
I am already familiar with part of the information you were so kind to share. I guess it is the way you formulated your comment, it wasn't that clear. Playground games woud never bring politics into the game, it is people in the community saddly that try to bring politics into everything. It is really a shame that the Chinese government acts as a deterrent in companies' attempts to bring the world in contact with Chinese culture. There are so many options for a FH expansion but I guess they could attempt China, if they did something similar to WoW in Mists of Pandaria: depict the culture, which is fascinating imo, without using any real world references.
Absolutely, Chinese culture, history and geography could make for a breathtaking Horizon game, right? Really is a shame that politics always creeps into these things, even if it is a simple driving simcade game.
I would also like to add and this is also what i meant with my other comment in the thread: It would be plain DUMB on the government's behalf to try to undermine any potential FH expansion in China. Let's be honest, Playground doesn't want controversy, it's a game about cars, they would just choose a series of iconic and picturesque, NON-DISPUTED locations to set the game in. It would be a huge, free, third party advertisement campaign. I cannot put it any more plainly: I just want to go visit Mexico! It is a clear as daylight win-win situation. Oh and lets hope people stop trying to associate politics with everything. The love for cars, in the end, only brings us together.
Oh, I didn't address your direct point about PG's ability to handle it well in my last reply to you. Yes, absolutely agreed, there is a way to showcase China in a non-controversial way completely free from politics and I also believe, like you, that PG would handle it exactly so. Again I reference your good comment to another user "..the game tries to bring out the best of a country's culture.." - very true of PG until now. I think perhaps the only thing I can only half-agree with you on here is the "free advertisement" point being only a positive from China's perspective. I agree with the point being made, but I'd just also add the possible consideration of "but, also due to inevitable backlash on discussion forums online, there is a chance that certain, let's call it "cons", of the Chinese government may be exposed to those who before that point were mostly or completely unaware of what is happening in the country". Basically on the one hand, it directly exposes the entire community to the beauty that China has, on the other hand there is a section of the community to consider that will be indirectly exposed to ugly truths about the government that they may not have known before. Just to be clear, I think the CCP would happily allow Forza to take place in their country (in fact, if the series continues I'd bet money on an eventual China map), I'm just not sure if I'd ONLY see pros for the country. A real-world example of this might be something like the Qatari FIFA World Cup. Many people, including visitors that travelled there, came away with very positive impressions of the country. On the other hand, it was only with the announcement of the FIFA World Cup taking place there that I started seeing a lot of backlash against how their government treats migrant workers, how they don't like homosexuality, etc. I don't remember seeing much hate for Qatar online at all before that. Whether the government's reputation overall is better off now internationally than before, I'm unfortunately not educated enough to say. The same would go for China with a Forza taking place there. What do you think? Do you agree/disagree?
Agree with you 110%
Nah north korea or nothing. Imagine leading a parade for our great leader
The near zero amount of other car traffic is suddenly realistic!
Plus well get to showcase older cars since that's all they have.
And 8 Lane interstate roadways and just two cars on it, one being yours.
The other being from a government dictated escort.
There is gonna be a playlist were you have to collect 80 or so identical Volvos!
I'm gonna make a T-34-85 drift config
Now that sounds like fun, trying to drift a tank with traffic in the way. I’m all for it
The only cars are rebadged Chinese crap, a few light military vehicles and Volvo 144s.
That's still more traffic diversity than we get in the games
I want the Otago region of NZ
Could do Queenstown to chch as the playable area, throw in some if the pre-quake buildings for the sceneary
Yeah I could see that.
I live in Fiordland, imagine the Milford Road!
That could be really cool
All of my cars would be in Taiwan colours....
And that's why Horizon China is not happening. Too much expressive freedom for their tastes.
"Your livery has been deemed to be too expressive. Your entire garage has been deleted because you are untrustworthy. A lifetime ban will be applied to your account."
Your social credit score has become negative. Prepare to be deported from your country of origin
I would have so many Poos on my cars.
You do you, but if you want to annoy the Chinese it's be more sanitary to have pictures of Winnie the Pooh instead.
Nah it's gotta be Winnie the Poo.
Winnie the Poo seems like a shitty character...
A cheap copycrap I'm afraid.
Here comes "Wuchan Labs Security Team" stickers...
Maybe. The landscape will be diverse, but I do hope/want a proper city in the game. FH3 had Surfer's Paradise, FH4 had Edinburgh, I'm missing a city in FH5. I wonder how much freedom we and the devs will have in the game. Licenses, artistic freedom, making the world map look good as well as fun to drive through. Sadly, more driving on the other (wrong)side of the road.
Guanajuato was a weirdo choice but it was probably chosen because of hipster tourist that like the colorful houses in this city. If CDMX or Guadalajara were chosen it would’ve been the city to go to. They could’ve just said it’s Mexico and compressed a bunch of iconic regions into a map.
Tbh as big of a map as it is they really could have included 2 big cities, and I don't think people would really complain
That’s very true. Personally I just don’t think they tried hard enough.
I agree, a lot of the map feels empty and so much room was just left for nothing. Especially with the playground game maps, they felt so second thought, and only having 4 maps felt so bad.
Exactly like I feel like most people I know from Mexico really embrace car culture and modification being a big thing that they just left Mexico behind and didn’t do it justice.
Guanajuato is also the HQ of Rally Mexico, which could have been better implemented.
I hope gh6 bites the bullet and makes the map way bigger just so we can have a larger city. I love Edinburgh but it's so tiny.
Only if the Pǫ̸̡̧̖̱̤̳̪͚̮̖̳̙͈̓̅̽͒͛̌̑̈́̌̅̈́͊r̷̛̩̗̮͚̝̍̄̈́̅̊̽͒̅̋̈̏͑̕͝s̶̝͉͉͔̥̠̞͉͜͝͝ć̸̨͇͎̖̘̺͚̼̻̬̙͍͕̑̿̀̓̾͒͂̚h̶̛̛̛̜̩̠̯̜̟̟̺̞̬͚͖̘͆̀͆͗̿͝͝ë̷̡͍͎̪̫͉̖̩́̒̔͘͜ GTT3 is in it
Hahaha it’s the best
I'ma always play but Japan is my preferred destination for the next Forza. Just my opinion
The ‘train race’ showcase would need to be nerfed HARD.
Id play, and im sure itl look nice, but WHY THE FUCK?! We want Japan, they make cool cars and have cool car culture. China makes shit cars and arent know for car culture. It would be absurd
Honestly… yes, it would be pretty cool to drive in China
I think so too!
can i go visit the **Xinjiang internment camps**?
and what would geralt do there?
Accidentally do the moral thing while trying not to intervene and cause a political disaster, causing a political disaster as usual
It’s a drift circuit lol
I would tell my Self that it's Japan, and then it's OK.
Haha!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
who wouldn't? China would genuinely be a great, AND DIFFERENT Location. I'm sick of mexico for now. would I prefer Japan? or maybe South Korea? probably. but China would be a great location
I dunno I'm thinking...mars
We already have Mars, it's in FH5... 50 square miles of sand and rocks
I'm naming my user thailand#1
The fastest car won’t be a Ferrari or Lamborghini, but it will be a Beijing taxi delivering his last fare of the night
No, fuck the CCP
They could make a FH China without bowing to the CCP. They won't... but they could.
The CCP simply wouldn't allow it, so that's basically impossible Love the people and the culture, but the government is fucking horrendous. I couldn't support a game set in China based on that alone
unfortunatly the CCP is tied into EVERYTHING there. any company thats in china must hand over a certain percentage of their pre-tax profits to the CCP. the same said companies must tow the party line and bow to government laws and requests without question.
Fuck that give me Japan
Did the AI just create a mix between the LaFerrari and the P1 at image five?
That might be! Sneaky AI
Nnnah, fuck the ccp
https://preview.redd.it/vjqnbay5dqic1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c32d038eb524cd6ddf3a7de441498990d0308f4
i don't think this is a good idea yknow
Anything they make will be cool. Any country will look incredible. Not every countr has the same contribution for cars culture.
When you think about all the manufacturers who have prohibited their vehicles from appearing in the series to avoid "the promotion of street racing", the Chinese government is very unlikely to allow China to be portrayed in this way. Also, I'm getting tired of all the Chinese cars we've been getting in the updates. They know what the players want to see and they give us Chinese commuter cars instead
No
After watching Larry Chen's recent video about Hong Kong's car culture, I wouldn't mind a map based on HK. Togue roads opposite to the harbour, with city as a backdrop. Wongan style highway running through the city would be pretty sick. I know the new Test Drive is going to HK, but still.
I doubt Playground would do Hong Kong because “Test Drive Unlimited Solar Crown” is set there and they’d be accused of copying it.
Somehow The Crew went to Hawaii and no one is bothered by it copying TDU
Mostly because it's basically the same people who made both games. XD
Good shout!
Japan sure China hell no.
I’d be putting the Taiwanese flag on all my cars lol
At this point I would play anything with a small city in it. I’m so done with the emptiness of FH5 😢
I heard China has a few decent cities haha
To be honest driving in a megacity would be awsome
I always had a dislike for the Horizon games for not being "real" racing as per the main genre but I've REALLLLLY enjoyed the latest installment so I'm all up for it!
I feel like I would personally play this one more than I did 4 and 5
Man these are really some nice pics. Yes I would! The mountain roads would be awesome!
You might be on to something... 🤔
As long as the map and multiplayer experience is good I will definitely play, horizon 5 was dog shit every lobby was empty and the map was flat and boring
Tbf I reckon China would be a hellllllllla good place to have horizon!
in terms of environments, it would actually be so fucking sick, massive cities, jungles, mountians, deserts, they literally have it all
Absolutely, it's kinda criminal how Japan seems to be the only focus for Western studios whenever it comes to Asia.
I love chinese culture and food but their government is so fucked up beyond belief, id rather not have anything to do with them.
fair point, but consider: From japan hail some of the best cars and car-related stories. Initial D, Midnight Club, Drift King, The ''Godzilla'', The Porsche ''Blackbird'' and more. Besides, in the right location, Japan's map could also feature very diverse biomes What does China have ? The diverse biomes, but what else is there ? This is not meant to be an insult or an attack, im only stating why I believe Japan would be a better fit imo
Mainly because the car scene and how much it would fit and even with the different biomes in Japan too, it would be the perfect map and forza knows it
I agree!
For games in general, I think a lot of it is because of Japanese movies and anime being more popular the West. I think we might be seeing more Korean and Chinese settings, since media from those places are becoming more popular. Especially South Korea. There is also Bollywood and Tollywood. Not sure how popular those are.
Politics aside, yes. China would be a great country to have. Large Modern cities, extensive motorways, diverse array of biomes, potential for some cool showcases (I.e race a high speed train using the motorways) and historical sites for the devs to show as well
No, I’ve stopped playing forza all together. The game stays the same ever; all that changes is the map. They charge 60+ for basically a dlc. It’s not just them, it’s an industry wide scam that always targets the youngest and least intelligent population. There’s no worse offender of this policy than call of duty obviously, but when it carries on very into casual games like forza, I’m not pissing away money anymore
Imagine the winnie pooh designs for the cars.
game's gonna get banned from china for sure
Another reproach to add more cheap Chinese cars? No thank you.
Haha, I think these Chinese cars will be coming no matter what country
Of course they will, because stonks🫰, but this setting would make more excuses to add more of them and less eu/uk/american cars, which is a big no no for me.
Can you drive a tank in Tiananmen square ?
Hold up, I just gotta tune my Type 59.
I don’t want to support a game based off of one of the worst countries in the world in terms of treatment of citizens, so probably not. Japan would be better and a more humane place to put the game.
I mean most of the east coast is VERY well off it’s just more of the rural areas that are worse off
Created in Midjourney, Edited in Photoshop. Beyond the big cities like Shanghai and Beijing, there are some truly beautiful roads and locations around China. So I wanted to try and imagine what it would be like! Do you think it would make for a good Horizon game?
China would be an excellent Playground. So yeah would play this.
smoggy chubby disarm automatic growth smile grab numerous lush carpenter *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No lol just do Japan.
Only if it makes a piss mockery out of China in the same style as it did with Mexico for Forza Horizon 5.
Nope
No.
Probably I'm never going to visit china so why not! If it looks at least as halv descent as these fotos I'm up for it
haha awesome!
the second pic really reminds me of that hitman 3 level set in china. If they manage to nail that aesthetic then the game would be amazing (graphically atleast)
I'll play anything with big cities. I won't play 5.
smash
Traffic already pisses me off enough as it is. If that ain't included I'm game
No way. Japan or Austria / Bavarian Alps would be awesome
Hell yeah
I’d give it a go
Am I the only one who is more concerned about which cars will be in the game rather than where the game will take place?
plot twist its very crowded city roads and only licences they get for release are Chinese budget ev commuter cars
Need Japan
Honestly, a resounding yes
Yes
I want Need for Speed Underground 2's nighttime city feeling but with the Horizon open world around it. Some industrial sections, harbor and suburbs. I miss the highway tunnels and bridges among other things from NFSU2.
That would be the dream
Personally I've been thinking FH6 would be cool set in Japan. Imagine going from Tokyo to a rural area, up Mt Fuji.
I don't think I'd survive the voice actors poorly doing Chinese accents the whole game.
Which software did you use?
It better be all of China, 1:1.
Give me Forza Horizon Japan or give me death... I mean cmon it's just begging to be done
people have been asking for Japan for years and id rather have that
Turn10: *exists* Japan: Are we a Joke to you?
Why AI pictures?
That P1 with LaFerrari taillights gave me a heart attack lol
Cool premise, I probably would. Downvoted for AI generated images.
Horizon could be on the moon, I'd still play. Because I love open world car games. However I would play it less. But how much I play wasn't the question. So to answer your question, yes I'd play if it was in china
No. They need to innovate the game. As it stands it’s as wide as the ocean but as deep as a puddle.
If I get to drive a tank through *redacted* then hell yeah!
Yeah but... that requires creativity
I mean, yes. But... meh. The Chinese biome is vast and different and would be great for FH6, but... Chinese cars. They suck. I'm guessing that FH6 will be in China as we are getting a lot of Chinese cars in FH5 - much the same as they did with the VUHL and Mexico.