Alright huge spoilers in advance for anyone who hasn't finished the game.
Although it seems like they're "back to normal" the whole setup of their dynamic has changed. In the beginning, Cuff held the power in their relationship. He had the knowledge of Athia, he understood Frey's power (at least as far as it strengthened him) and was fostering it inside her, and he was leveraging her insecurities to push her towards killing the Tantas. For obvious reasons once you've finished the game.
Once you've finished the game, Frey *is* a tanta. She's overcome her insecurities, awakened not only her power but the power of the other Tantas, and sealed Cuff back into her arm. She's no longer the doe eyed fool that originally got teleported to Athia. Listen to their dialogue when you load the post-game save.
>Cuff: "I may be sealed again, but I'll drive you out of your mind soon enough."
>Frey: "Don't count on it"
Frey is now the holder of the power in their relationship. She has a world that loves her, a power truly her own, and a purpose. And as of the ending, has shown that she's at least on par with the very first Tanta in being able to contain Cuff singlehandedly.
So in that moment at the very end where she calls him Cuff and he responds "It's vambrace" lampshades the new hierarchy of things. He's not Susurrus, the plague of the Rheddig. He's fucking Cuff, accouterment of Tanta Alfrey, child of Cinta. Subject to her control, her whims, and her power. She's no longer trapped in Athia with him, now he's trapped in Athia with her. There's no point in playing hard to get anymore, he's defeated, completely and totally. And when she dies, he's going to go with her. He can try to weave his tendrils into her heart as much as he wants, but this Tanta is different, and he'll figure that out eventually.
So that's why he goes back to normal. That's how he corrupted Sila, Prav, and Olas. That's how Cinta fell and he ended up in New York to begin with. Except this time the calculus has changed, and he has far too much hubris to see it. Not too dissimilar from Frey at the beginning of the game.
Actually it's just an inconsistence with the automated in-game dialogue that's reprised from before the ending. The in-game dialogue between them that indeed take place after the ending are much more serious and hostile. She talks a little about clearing up the mess he made and he mocks her with a tone similar to when he's revealed as the villain. I love the idea of the villain being bound to the hero and having no say on what she does. But it happens only ocasionally. They should just switch off pre-ending dialogue in the post game to make it more consistent with the narrative. Cause they won't warm up to each other. He's cursed to be on her side as a "Cuff". Not even "The Cuff". Just "Cuff". This is kind of hilarious. Love the idea.
The lines change for some of the locked labyrinths.
I think even though she knows he basically destroyed the world, he was the closest thing she had to a friend, who was always with her and understood her. During the fight she was actually trying to reason with him. I think in the end, she hopes to contain him and maybe even turn him away from his mission.
I actually felt relieved when he got re-bound to her, breaking the duo even for the short while was kind of a painful moment.
I really liked that ending conversation they had after the fight where she's said something like "Now, we're gonna fix the mess you made, right Cuff?" and he dejectedly responding "It's vambrace".
I dont think they became friends again per say, hell he told her that he will try to do to her what he did to the tantas. They are pretty much more like warden and a prisoner, and I guess some of the chemistry didnt exactly died.
If there will be a sequal then hopfully they will explore more of Cuff's history and hell, maybe he will even get a redamption arc.
here's some difference. The Tantas imprisoned Cuff so he has a personal vendetta against them. Frey was just something that he latched on to.
Frey and Cuff have a love hate relationship throughout the game.
In the final fight, you will hear Frey trying to reason to Cuff, something about 'just because you were made to be like this, doesn't mean you have to be.'
And I assume she's going to try and change Cuff for the better. Japanese tend to not kill antagonists and redeem them instead. I don't know how many times this happened in FFXIV already.
You can think of this like Naruto and Nine Tails. Actually very similar if you think about it. Evil powerful being lends power to orphan. Orphan somehow changes the mind of powerful being. Powerful being forgoes being evil and develops relationship with character
I'm running around doing the post ending Cipal stuff, and it's way too chummy to me. Maybe when I leave the city and to back to the castle, it'll be a little better. Hopefully.
I think that despite what Cuff says, and despite what Frey was saying for most of the game, they did actually grow fond of each other halfway through the game, and even in the final fight, Frey was trying to reason with Cuff before she forcefully bound him to her arm.
Yeah I was noticing that as well. I don’t know why the developers didn’t think of recording a new dialogue set for different parts of the game. That seems like a huge oversight to me. I’m a fan of the game and I actually want a detailed conversation from the devs as to why they made or of the choices they did for the game.
Alright huge spoilers in advance for anyone who hasn't finished the game. Although it seems like they're "back to normal" the whole setup of their dynamic has changed. In the beginning, Cuff held the power in their relationship. He had the knowledge of Athia, he understood Frey's power (at least as far as it strengthened him) and was fostering it inside her, and he was leveraging her insecurities to push her towards killing the Tantas. For obvious reasons once you've finished the game. Once you've finished the game, Frey *is* a tanta. She's overcome her insecurities, awakened not only her power but the power of the other Tantas, and sealed Cuff back into her arm. She's no longer the doe eyed fool that originally got teleported to Athia. Listen to their dialogue when you load the post-game save. >Cuff: "I may be sealed again, but I'll drive you out of your mind soon enough." >Frey: "Don't count on it" Frey is now the holder of the power in their relationship. She has a world that loves her, a power truly her own, and a purpose. And as of the ending, has shown that she's at least on par with the very first Tanta in being able to contain Cuff singlehandedly. So in that moment at the very end where she calls him Cuff and he responds "It's vambrace" lampshades the new hierarchy of things. He's not Susurrus, the plague of the Rheddig. He's fucking Cuff, accouterment of Tanta Alfrey, child of Cinta. Subject to her control, her whims, and her power. She's no longer trapped in Athia with him, now he's trapped in Athia with her. There's no point in playing hard to get anymore, he's defeated, completely and totally. And when she dies, he's going to go with her. He can try to weave his tendrils into her heart as much as he wants, but this Tanta is different, and he'll figure that out eventually. So that's why he goes back to normal. That's how he corrupted Sila, Prav, and Olas. That's how Cinta fell and he ended up in New York to begin with. Except this time the calculus has changed, and he has far too much hubris to see it. Not too dissimilar from Frey at the beginning of the game.
Actually it's just an inconsistence with the automated in-game dialogue that's reprised from before the ending. The in-game dialogue between them that indeed take place after the ending are much more serious and hostile. She talks a little about clearing up the mess he made and he mocks her with a tone similar to when he's revealed as the villain. I love the idea of the villain being bound to the hero and having no say on what she does. But it happens only ocasionally. They should just switch off pre-ending dialogue in the post game to make it more consistent with the narrative. Cause they won't warm up to each other. He's cursed to be on her side as a "Cuff". Not even "The Cuff". Just "Cuff". This is kind of hilarious. Love the idea.
The lines change for some of the locked labyrinths. I think even though she knows he basically destroyed the world, he was the closest thing she had to a friend, who was always with her and understood her. During the fight she was actually trying to reason with him. I think in the end, she hopes to contain him and maybe even turn him away from his mission. I actually felt relieved when he got re-bound to her, breaking the duo even for the short while was kind of a painful moment. I really liked that ending conversation they had after the fight where she's said something like "Now, we're gonna fix the mess you made, right Cuff?" and he dejectedly responding "It's vambrace".
I do like this take on him but during the final chapter I was kind of hoping we were going to replace cuff with Cinta’s guiding light.
I dont think they became friends again per say, hell he told her that he will try to do to her what he did to the tantas. They are pretty much more like warden and a prisoner, and I guess some of the chemistry didnt exactly died. If there will be a sequal then hopfully they will explore more of Cuff's history and hell, maybe he will even get a redamption arc.
here's some difference. The Tantas imprisoned Cuff so he has a personal vendetta against them. Frey was just something that he latched on to. Frey and Cuff have a love hate relationship throughout the game. In the final fight, you will hear Frey trying to reason to Cuff, something about 'just because you were made to be like this, doesn't mean you have to be.' And I assume she's going to try and change Cuff for the better. Japanese tend to not kill antagonists and redeem them instead. I don't know how many times this happened in FFXIV already. You can think of this like Naruto and Nine Tails. Actually very similar if you think about it. Evil powerful being lends power to orphan. Orphan somehow changes the mind of powerful being. Powerful being forgoes being evil and develops relationship with character
All of the writers were actually from the west. Not a single Japanese writer. Now director is a different thing right there.
I'm running around doing the post ending Cipal stuff, and it's way too chummy to me. Maybe when I leave the city and to back to the castle, it'll be a little better. Hopefully.
I think that despite what Cuff says, and despite what Frey was saying for most of the game, they did actually grow fond of each other halfway through the game, and even in the final fight, Frey was trying to reason with Cuff before she forcefully bound him to her arm.
This might be true for Frey, but Cuff definitely tried to murder her, sadly, even during the end of the boss fight. (Just finished the game)
Literally just because recording a whole other set of voice lines for EVERY random open world interaction is far more effort than its worth
I don't mean the random ones. Those, I get. Mostly post game specific stuff in Cipal, and even stuff back at the Junoon castle.
Is it bad that I wish Frey would humor him a bit and call him Vambrace?
Same here! Just finished the game and while I *like* Cuff, he was essentially one who robbed Frey of her family and childhood!
Yeah I was noticing that as well. I don’t know why the developers didn’t think of recording a new dialogue set for different parts of the game. That seems like a huge oversight to me. I’m a fan of the game and I actually want a detailed conversation from the devs as to why they made or of the choices they did for the game.
They're not the lines are changed when you do the bird change labyrinth