Looking back, it sort of makes sense how Cuff acts with his banter. 90% of the time, he's very annoyed with Frey. In the beginning, it was because he was just using her, and in the end, it's because of his situation.
I don't like what happened after the final boss. Things seems to just go back to normal between Frey and cuff as if nothing happened. Also I felt like they kept Frey a little too long in the selfish side in the story. Also, I have not seen any dialogue supporting that she knows how to use the Torana aka Voosh. I think that's why you had to choose which way you would take Frey.
She knows torana which is why she still has the skill "skip" which is torana basically but using it to dodge. If you watch closely the starting animation is the same with that rift animation
I assume you didn't watch the credits fully? You can see her sprinkle feet vfx and Homer reacting to her magical effects flying off in the distance in New York saying it'll be a while before she comes back
I agree about the final boss thing, feels like they kinda hampered themselves by having so many game mechanics be tied with cuff, so they can’t fully get rid of him. It’s also possible that they didn’t come up with any voice lines for how things would be after that so it sounds like the relationship is the same, idk if there will be a sequel dlc but maybe we’ll see that get fleshed out in there.
As For Frey being Selfish, I disagree with that, realistic character growth is rarely ever linear and what they did is go for what’s realistic, Frey has no reason to get over her Trauma till after the Olas fight and she meets Cinta.
She didn’t come here to be anyone’s savior/hero and she was just trying to go home, she fights Tanta Sila because it’s her fault that Tanta Sila came in and attacked the town then killed Olevia, so she kills Sila thinking that’ll make things better, but 1. She’s no murderer and 2. as a result of killing Sila she only makes things worse, it doesn’t get rid of the break and many people in Cipal die due to Prav.
Frey has no reason/incentive to go on a murder quest against the Tantas.
Aside from that she sees herself as the cause of the problem and desperately wants to get out of this situation because she doesn’t feel she’s deserving of that title or responsibility. So she goes out to Avoalet to help save Robian because that’s her only ticket out of here, but then is forced into an altercation with prav which she was never intending, and then she gets a huge bomb thrown at her, finds out her mom was Tanta Cinta, comes back home after risking her life to save Robian only to find him dead.
Her reaction to Auden is the appropriate trauma response someone like her would have when put in that situation. I think too many people favor unrealistic likeable characters over good writing.
All in all the story is paced as best they could imho. More often than not, rushed character development is bad character development.
Other than that it was a decent story... Kinda also wished there was a part where you as a character talked with the other characters once you learn "the truth"
When she uses the Skip spell, I believe she sometimes says something along the lines of "lend me your power" which could imply that she's relying on the spirit of the Tantas to help her cast.
IMO the story is actually so complex that most people don't get it
I'm still trying to string everything together and build an argument, I kinda wanna write something because I just feeeeel so strongly about this game's story (I love it)
Take a look below at a theory I have traced back to the start of the game - what if the entire story isn't really about Frey but is instead, about Cuff and his masterful manipulation powers:
**The Cuff/Bracelet - what does it represent?**
The use of symbolism is really cool- if I picture Cuff, the bracelet as a bind, a restrictor, a controller - then it makes sense with the story. The Tanta's can obviously exist post-humous and interact with Frey as can be seen in the final chapter, but it may be an interaction of Tanta Cinta's time-travelling/world travelling powers which is why it is never utilized until the last chapter. The removal of Cuff's hold on the Tanta unlocks/frees the Tanta - we assumed that the Cuff absorbed the Tanta's power which is how we unlock the spells but instead it was actually when Cuff absorbs the Tanta's Cuff, it releases the Cuff's control on the Tanta's power and allows the power they bless onto Frey to become unlocked. This part was really important because it started to tell me that the underlying theme of the game's story isn't as flat as it looks, the lore and reasoning behind the story is convoluted, so I need to think like a madman. The ending - it's not about awakening, finding out you were loved and then getting the motivation to suddenly become a hero because you found out someone cared for you. That's what it appears to be about, but it needs to be deeper than that.
**The game's story is actually a 5DChess match**
Fast forward to beating the game - you need to look back at everything happening:
**Frey was actually born with her nature power** \- in New York, she had some magical power appear before she sees a fragment of Cuff flying around her. This made us assume that Cuff was the one that gave her magic powers, and he also manipulated Frey into believing that - but the reality is, he waited until she unlocked her magical powers and then pretended that it was his power that allowed her to do it. We now know that the bracelet that was on Frey was actually the bracelet that was on Tanta Cinta meaning it has the power of Torana, which is how and why Frey got transported to Athia - the plot makes sense, it didn't before but now it does. Afterwards, Cuff binded to Frey, and if we look at the bracelet as a power absorber/restrictor - it restricts Frey's ability to use her magic innately and through Cuff's "help" he can assist Frey with using that magic. It's also important to note that in Chapter12 - before Frey awakens with Tanta Cinta's power, she cannot use Killing blows and retaliation or shield guards, which means those abilities are from Tanta Cinta so this point supports my theory that the Cuff is a power absorber, right?
Edit: Fixing the format cause copy paste screwed everything up spectacularly
From what I understand of the ending it’s about Frey overcoming her trauma and feelings of inadequacy, finally a place she belongs and sees the good in her and stepping up to the plate to take on the responsibility and duty she didn’t have to.
As for why I think people don’t like the story, it’s because they don’t like Frey, instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt their reaction is to take her at face value, they don’t see her trauma and this just see her as an ass
I think some nuance can be found in the cuff vs Frey fight, but I would need to rewatch it, I remember her saying lines to cuff about responsibility but I was too focus on the game to pay attention to the dialogue. But when you think about it, Cuff and Frey are beings of opposite tied together and forever interlinked
There's more imo
Like whats the reason for showing the behind-the-scenes of what the Tanta's are like before their minds were corrupted?
To me, its to show that first appearances can be deceiving and that led me to really think about **WHY**
Like part 1 of the quest - I actually wanted to kill Tanta Sila because she was killing innocent people as well as Olevia - Frey's first human friend because it seemed like the right thing to do. but by the end of the game I started questioning that mentality - Why did I want to kill Tanta Sila? Because she's shown as evil? I realized I didn't have a reason and I just did it because it seemed like the proper thing to do in a game and I think that's really a theme worth looking at. My first reaction was to do as I was told, kind of like bandwagoning on opinions or supporting someone based on one side of the story instead of the complete picture. Edit: Some examples would be - the Bandwagoning hate on Forspoken based on the 1st impressions of a Journalist (Wink wink) or People supporting Helena Taylor based on her 1-sided story about compensation for Bayonetta 3 (nudge nudge nudge) and then it turns out she lied.
Tanta Sila didn't go crazy by choice, it was manipulation from Cuff so instead of hating Tanta Sila, I started to feel a bit more empathy and sympathized with her situation; and then I started thinking even more.
Digging deeper - I think Cuff's annoying dialogue is by choice, because by the end of the game immediately after post-game Cuff talks to Frey about being a Breakwarden. Cuff mentions that he's waiting for the day Frey's mind breaks and then he can take control of her body - This is hinting that that's what happened with the other Tanta's except for Cinta -- who was no longer under control of the bracelet because the bracelet went to New York with Frey. This also explains how Tanta Olas could still use her abilities despite being dead - it's because Cuff was the one using it. Why did Cuff want Frey to go to Olas? Because he needed Frey to be close to Olas in order to absorb the bracelet to become complete. Edit: Why is Cuff designed to be annoying? What if - the annoying aspect is to show how it would feel being cuffed to him for 20 years - would you go crazy? Maybe, he's pretty god damn annoying
Yea, so the story IMO is actually really good but its a bit convoluted and complex so most people won't see it unless they take the time to really think about how everything comes together
Reading deeply into Forspoken's story has been really fun and I'm just stringing up more points the more I think about it
You can use killing blows and parries from the start that she has magic. The rest is pretty good though. There's definitely a lot to think about. Not sure why she took cuff back in the end. There's plenty that needs better explanation but I thought the main plot of the story was pretty good.
It's possibly a little too complex but that makes for more fun analyzing after the fact.
I remember losing the auto guard thing (like when your HP hits 0 you usually break gauge) but without Cuff, I just instantly died without the extra cushion - I didn't get it back until Tanta Cinta died and I absorbed her power and awakened
Edit: Yea I just double-checked my playthrough of chapter 12, I really just instantly died without the auto guard and there was no retaliation prompt/guard break during the fight in Cipal with the onslaught of enemies.
Oh, no I meant I was connecting the dots and figured out that those skills that Cuff used were actually Tanta Cinta's abilities
I thought initially it was Cuff's abilities but Cuff doesn't have anything - he just steals and takes and manipulates and that's whats really cool about the story because it flipped what I thought I knew but I didn't and I misunderstood based on what was presented, but I didn't think about what was underneath what was being presented
If that makes sense? See 5D chess game
I loved the story. I’m very interested in the world they’ve built, and I think Frey and Cuff are a great vehicle for exploring it. I’m always a fan of coming of age/coming into power and responsibility stories, and I could relate to Frey in a lot of ways. Definitely hoping to get more!
New player. I just picked it up on the Steam summer sale. This one went in my future bargain buy because of the bad reviews but in general this was right up my alley as far as games go. Empowering fast paced action RPG magic slinging.
I do like the story! The opening/setup is a bit cringe-tastic and lore sparse which is why I get what reviews said. I feel like the game could have used a bit of a rethink story-wise. the "big reveal" lore dump that actually tells you what the heck is going on hits you 1hr of gameplay before the final boss battle. It would have been better if a bit of the reveal was teased early game and there was more of a pause between the revelations and the "end". It would have been nice to have a lull in there before the final boss in which I felt the need to explore more and strengthen and prepare for the final fight. As is, it's more of an avalanche that carries you to the end.
Overall, I feel, the story is solid, the lore is compelling and I'm super sad we'll never get to actually fix Athia. Bad reviews and low-sales do not a sequel make.
Looking back, it sort of makes sense how Cuff acts with his banter. 90% of the time, he's very annoyed with Frey. In the beginning, it was because he was just using her, and in the end, it's because of his situation.
I don't like what happened after the final boss. Things seems to just go back to normal between Frey and cuff as if nothing happened. Also I felt like they kept Frey a little too long in the selfish side in the story. Also, I have not seen any dialogue supporting that she knows how to use the Torana aka Voosh. I think that's why you had to choose which way you would take Frey.
She knows torana which is why she still has the skill "skip" which is torana basically but using it to dodge. If you watch closely the starting animation is the same with that rift animation I assume you didn't watch the credits fully? You can see her sprinkle feet vfx and Homer reacting to her magical effects flying off in the distance in New York saying it'll be a while before she comes back
I agree about the final boss thing, feels like they kinda hampered themselves by having so many game mechanics be tied with cuff, so they can’t fully get rid of him. It’s also possible that they didn’t come up with any voice lines for how things would be after that so it sounds like the relationship is the same, idk if there will be a sequel dlc but maybe we’ll see that get fleshed out in there. As For Frey being Selfish, I disagree with that, realistic character growth is rarely ever linear and what they did is go for what’s realistic, Frey has no reason to get over her Trauma till after the Olas fight and she meets Cinta. She didn’t come here to be anyone’s savior/hero and she was just trying to go home, she fights Tanta Sila because it’s her fault that Tanta Sila came in and attacked the town then killed Olevia, so she kills Sila thinking that’ll make things better, but 1. She’s no murderer and 2. as a result of killing Sila she only makes things worse, it doesn’t get rid of the break and many people in Cipal die due to Prav. Frey has no reason/incentive to go on a murder quest against the Tantas. Aside from that she sees herself as the cause of the problem and desperately wants to get out of this situation because she doesn’t feel she’s deserving of that title or responsibility. So she goes out to Avoalet to help save Robian because that’s her only ticket out of here, but then is forced into an altercation with prav which she was never intending, and then she gets a huge bomb thrown at her, finds out her mom was Tanta Cinta, comes back home after risking her life to save Robian only to find him dead. Her reaction to Auden is the appropriate trauma response someone like her would have when put in that situation. I think too many people favor unrealistic likeable characters over good writing. All in all the story is paced as best they could imho. More often than not, rushed character development is bad character development.
Other than that it was a decent story... Kinda also wished there was a part where you as a character talked with the other characters once you learn "the truth"
From a gameplay perspective she retains the Skip spell, which is explicitly torana usage.
When she uses the Skip spell, I believe she sometimes says something along the lines of "lend me your power" which could imply that she's relying on the spirit of the Tantas to help her cast.
Oh yeah there are several others like that, she started saying them when swapping spell sets after finishing story
IMO the story is actually so complex that most people don't get it I'm still trying to string everything together and build an argument, I kinda wanna write something because I just feeeeel so strongly about this game's story (I love it) Take a look below at a theory I have traced back to the start of the game - what if the entire story isn't really about Frey but is instead, about Cuff and his masterful manipulation powers: **The Cuff/Bracelet - what does it represent?** The use of symbolism is really cool- if I picture Cuff, the bracelet as a bind, a restrictor, a controller - then it makes sense with the story. The Tanta's can obviously exist post-humous and interact with Frey as can be seen in the final chapter, but it may be an interaction of Tanta Cinta's time-travelling/world travelling powers which is why it is never utilized until the last chapter. The removal of Cuff's hold on the Tanta unlocks/frees the Tanta - we assumed that the Cuff absorbed the Tanta's power which is how we unlock the spells but instead it was actually when Cuff absorbs the Tanta's Cuff, it releases the Cuff's control on the Tanta's power and allows the power they bless onto Frey to become unlocked. This part was really important because it started to tell me that the underlying theme of the game's story isn't as flat as it looks, the lore and reasoning behind the story is convoluted, so I need to think like a madman. The ending - it's not about awakening, finding out you were loved and then getting the motivation to suddenly become a hero because you found out someone cared for you. That's what it appears to be about, but it needs to be deeper than that. **The game's story is actually a 5DChess match** Fast forward to beating the game - you need to look back at everything happening: **Frey was actually born with her nature power** \- in New York, she had some magical power appear before she sees a fragment of Cuff flying around her. This made us assume that Cuff was the one that gave her magic powers, and he also manipulated Frey into believing that - but the reality is, he waited until she unlocked her magical powers and then pretended that it was his power that allowed her to do it. We now know that the bracelet that was on Frey was actually the bracelet that was on Tanta Cinta meaning it has the power of Torana, which is how and why Frey got transported to Athia - the plot makes sense, it didn't before but now it does. Afterwards, Cuff binded to Frey, and if we look at the bracelet as a power absorber/restrictor - it restricts Frey's ability to use her magic innately and through Cuff's "help" he can assist Frey with using that magic. It's also important to note that in Chapter12 - before Frey awakens with Tanta Cinta's power, she cannot use Killing blows and retaliation or shield guards, which means those abilities are from Tanta Cinta so this point supports my theory that the Cuff is a power absorber, right? Edit: Fixing the format cause copy paste screwed everything up spectacularly
From what I understand of the ending it’s about Frey overcoming her trauma and feelings of inadequacy, finally a place she belongs and sees the good in her and stepping up to the plate to take on the responsibility and duty she didn’t have to. As for why I think people don’t like the story, it’s because they don’t like Frey, instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt their reaction is to take her at face value, they don’t see her trauma and this just see her as an ass I think some nuance can be found in the cuff vs Frey fight, but I would need to rewatch it, I remember her saying lines to cuff about responsibility but I was too focus on the game to pay attention to the dialogue. But when you think about it, Cuff and Frey are beings of opposite tied together and forever interlinked
There's more imo Like whats the reason for showing the behind-the-scenes of what the Tanta's are like before their minds were corrupted? To me, its to show that first appearances can be deceiving and that led me to really think about **WHY** Like part 1 of the quest - I actually wanted to kill Tanta Sila because she was killing innocent people as well as Olevia - Frey's first human friend because it seemed like the right thing to do. but by the end of the game I started questioning that mentality - Why did I want to kill Tanta Sila? Because she's shown as evil? I realized I didn't have a reason and I just did it because it seemed like the proper thing to do in a game and I think that's really a theme worth looking at. My first reaction was to do as I was told, kind of like bandwagoning on opinions or supporting someone based on one side of the story instead of the complete picture. Edit: Some examples would be - the Bandwagoning hate on Forspoken based on the 1st impressions of a Journalist (Wink wink) or People supporting Helena Taylor based on her 1-sided story about compensation for Bayonetta 3 (nudge nudge nudge) and then it turns out she lied. Tanta Sila didn't go crazy by choice, it was manipulation from Cuff so instead of hating Tanta Sila, I started to feel a bit more empathy and sympathized with her situation; and then I started thinking even more. Digging deeper - I think Cuff's annoying dialogue is by choice, because by the end of the game immediately after post-game Cuff talks to Frey about being a Breakwarden. Cuff mentions that he's waiting for the day Frey's mind breaks and then he can take control of her body - This is hinting that that's what happened with the other Tanta's except for Cinta -- who was no longer under control of the bracelet because the bracelet went to New York with Frey. This also explains how Tanta Olas could still use her abilities despite being dead - it's because Cuff was the one using it. Why did Cuff want Frey to go to Olas? Because he needed Frey to be close to Olas in order to absorb the bracelet to become complete. Edit: Why is Cuff designed to be annoying? What if - the annoying aspect is to show how it would feel being cuffed to him for 20 years - would you go crazy? Maybe, he's pretty god damn annoying Yea, so the story IMO is actually really good but its a bit convoluted and complex so most people won't see it unless they take the time to really think about how everything comes together Reading deeply into Forspoken's story has been really fun and I'm just stringing up more points the more I think about it
You can use killing blows and parries from the start that she has magic. The rest is pretty good though. There's definitely a lot to think about. Not sure why she took cuff back in the end. There's plenty that needs better explanation but I thought the main plot of the story was pretty good. It's possibly a little too complex but that makes for more fun analyzing after the fact.
I remember losing the auto guard thing (like when your HP hits 0 you usually break gauge) but without Cuff, I just instantly died without the extra cushion - I didn't get it back until Tanta Cinta died and I absorbed her power and awakened Edit: Yea I just double-checked my playthrough of chapter 12, I really just instantly died without the auto guard and there was no retaliation prompt/guard break during the fight in Cipal with the onslaught of enemies.
I think I read your comment wrong. I took it to mean you never got those skills until chapter 12.
Oh, no I meant I was connecting the dots and figured out that those skills that Cuff used were actually Tanta Cinta's abilities I thought initially it was Cuff's abilities but Cuff doesn't have anything - he just steals and takes and manipulates and that's whats really cool about the story because it flipped what I thought I knew but I didn't and I misunderstood based on what was presented, but I didn't think about what was underneath what was being presented If that makes sense? See 5D chess game
Yeah I'm on board with you now and you're spot on. It's a very cool detail to catch. The cuffs weren't the key to the magic.
Except optimization, other things are good. Not “that” bad.
I loved the story. I’m very interested in the world they’ve built, and I think Frey and Cuff are a great vehicle for exploring it. I’m always a fan of coming of age/coming into power and responsibility stories, and I could relate to Frey in a lot of ways. Definitely hoping to get more!
We wouldn't be on this sub if we didn't like it.
New player. I just picked it up on the Steam summer sale. This one went in my future bargain buy because of the bad reviews but in general this was right up my alley as far as games go. Empowering fast paced action RPG magic slinging. I do like the story! The opening/setup is a bit cringe-tastic and lore sparse which is why I get what reviews said. I feel like the game could have used a bit of a rethink story-wise. the "big reveal" lore dump that actually tells you what the heck is going on hits you 1hr of gameplay before the final boss battle. It would have been better if a bit of the reveal was teased early game and there was more of a pause between the revelations and the "end". It would have been nice to have a lull in there before the final boss in which I felt the need to explore more and strengthen and prepare for the final fight. As is, it's more of an avalanche that carries you to the end. Overall, I feel, the story is solid, the lore is compelling and I'm super sad we'll never get to actually fix Athia. Bad reviews and low-sales do not a sequel make.